As a Person of Size (size 3X, in t-shirts), I always take an interest in Jezebel’s food posts, but I just have to share Anna North‘s latest LOL:
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I wish organic food were affordable for everyone, and that our food system relied less on insecticides and antibiotics and other substances of questionable safety. But I also wish we could have this discussion without alarmism, and without treating people who enjoy a doughnut now and then like self-destructive crackheads…
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Comments about how healthfully one’s own family eats are a staple of Internet food threads — a significant sector of the online population seems to believe that simply sharing their own righteousness will eradicate diabetes.
There will be those who declare that I am incapable of having a correct opinion on this topic, because as a walking example of America’s Obesity Crisis, I am helplessly enthralled by Our New Worst Enemy, a substance “ten times more addictive than heroin” that “wreaks havoc on the immune system”. (They would be wrong, because it’s fat-laden potato chips, not sweets, that are my greatest weakness.) But I do think that the tendency to “demonize” particular foods or food groups springs from some of the same roots as the tendency to reject any information that conflicts with one’s personal political beliefs. People want to have a Unifying Narrative to help them understand what can seem like a cold and hostile universe. Whether that means believing that Big Agro has deliberately addicted us to Demon Sugar, that Big Gubmint has deliberately addicted us to Welfare Dependency, or that Big Oil deliberately brought down the WTC towers with the connivance of its puppets in the Cheney Regency — or some combination of all these theories — is less important than Knowing the Truth. Who was it said “The truth will set you free, but first it will make you crazy”?
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On the other hand… nobody doesn’t love puppies! John O “still hasn’t decided” how much he wants to “share” of his pet-rescue story, but here is a new picture of Dweezil:
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Yutsano
OH! MAH! GRAVY!! PUPPEH!! I may have to ignore my brother’s grousing and go Great Dane shopping now. That is way too teh cuteness!
Joel
The whole high fructose corn syrup hysteria drives me nuts. It’s missing the forest for the trees; the product itself isn’t atrocious – it’s just a mixture of different sugars designed to mimic the sweetness of table sugar (glucose, the primary sugar in corn, is not as sweet as sucrose). The problem with products containing high fructose corn syrup and related ingredients is the degree of processing and the minimal nutrition said products provide.
One thing that jumped at me – I can’t find the original link – was a study that showed that malnutrition may be the cause of obesity in urban school districts, not excessive caloric consumption..
Warren Terra
I think a picture that sweet should require a health warning and be hidden behind a link. It’s especially ironic in a post that touches on diabetes.
Anne Laurie
@Warren Terra: I was trying to be subtle. Which is not my forte.
Susan Kitchens
Socialist sweet corn stuff. It’s teh evil. I’ll believe tea baggers when they start getting all medieval on socialized sweeteners.
But you know how the “sweet tea” stuff goes. Well, in other parts of America. Not where *I* come from, mind you, but The Real America ™.
No socialist sweetener protest for you. Na ga ha pen.
Yutsano
Closest I could get to your quote was Gloria Steinem: “The Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.” It may not quite be the sentiment you were going for, but I kinda like it.
@Joel:
I remember reading about that in TIME (mock me later please) and there is increasing evidence that highly processed low nutrition caloric dense foods are a large cause of obesity simply because the body get calories but not enough nutrition so it cranks up the appetite for whatever it can get. Plus these same foods, because of our agricultural policies, are cheaper and easy to get, so it becomes a perfect storm. I’m weird: I actually don’t care for the taste of high fructose corn syrup (save for chocolate I don’t have much of a sweet tooth anyway) so if I don’t have to eat it I won’t. I don’t really freak out about it though.
Susan Kitchens
oh crap. I got stuck in moderation hell because of a favorite scary word boogaloo bugaboo so ci al ism that happens to match the word game anagram-ness of a certain blue pill.
Why oh why didn’t I take the blue pill?
And why can’t Nero act?
All of this fluff is to say, really, that I dug the bolded text in the blockquoted LOL:
Because the naming of my own righteousness ™ of my personal habits of righteous bootstrapping of free market principles (also, too), will eradicate all signs of evil libral O-botness and that, um, word that causes things to go into moderation. Not to be confused with So-Cal ism, which happens to people in a certain region of the West Coast.
SiubhanDuinne
Dweezil makes me happy.
Mike Kay
The pathetic paranoia of Jane Hamsher continues.
In this post, she sees the dark, evil hand of
RasputinRahm behind the Evan Bayh abdication.According to pothead Jane,
Don Michael CorleoneRahm sent Bayh a dead fish wrapped in a newspaper in order to clear the way for Baron Hill to run for the seat.http://firedoglake.com/2010/02/15/hello-senator-hill-or-ellsworth/
It’s long beyond time for her remaining friends in the blogosphere to stage an intervention.
YesFartsAreFunny
+1 on everything you said. You can enjoy all sorts of “evil” foods in moderation. The key is…moderation. I used to chomp a bag (or two) of chips or a full pizza with the best of them. That’s why I like weight watchers, it’s not a diet, but learning a new way to learn to eat. Diets while they work, once you’ve lost the weight and go back to the “real world” you haven’t learned anything and back you go to balloon status.
I sure as shit will never give up my glass of wine, martini or slice of pizza. It’s just now, I make sure that’s not my entire diet, and I plan for it. I am lucky in one sense. I love, LOVE raw veggies. I can snack of a veggie plate all day (without dip ) and be totally happy. I know a lot of people aren’t like that. The other thing I’ve noticed, as I’ve been on WW, is that I’ve lost my taste for Fast food like McDonalds (who, is currently advertising…you can eat like an Olympic athlete if you eat here! Sad, but funny). Take out is one thing, that chemically laden drive through crap is quite the other. It is indeed quite toxic to your body.
Lesley
@Joel:
If we’re going to apply logic and reason, both would be true but consuming more calories than one needs is one of the biggest problems, i.e. most people don’t eat the proverbial donut in moderation because sugar is an addictive drug that once eaten leads to intense cravings for more of it.
Consumption in caloric quantities far beyond what one needs on a daily basis causes obesity. A person who is inhaling 10,000 cals a day (the average Biggest Loser contestant) will never burn that off with exercise unless they are climbing a portion of Mt. Everest every day. And people who overeat tend not to exercise very much.
As a 5’5″ medium-boned female who engages in light activity, I burn about 2300 calories a day, on average, just breathing and sitting around. If I workout intensely for an hour, I can add another 500 calories to that (which is not much).
I have, on many occasions throughout my life, consumed double that number and found the old tire creeping into my mid-section. Well, duh. Too many calories in does that to a person.
So whether you’re eating shit or eating well, you still have to be aware of how much you’re eating; though people who eat well tend not to overeat. People who eat a lot of crap inevitably do. a) because the crap food invariably has a lot more calories; and b) crap food is the least satisfying. Eat a donut or a bowl of refined Cheerios and an hour later you’ll be starving. Eat a steak and you’ll have satiety for 3-4 hours.
Refined sugar & carbohydrates are like crack. You can spin it any way from Sunday but if you eat refined sugar you will crave refined sugar and the only way to rid oneself of sugar cravings is to minimize consumption to next to nothing (like one donut a week) or stop eating it altogether. I’ve found, for myself, that I pretty much had to give it up, because I have very little impulse control once I start eating sugary things.
There are alternatives. Stevia, for example. But mainly it’s about eating healthy fats (mostly monounsaturated), some saturated fat (no it won’t kill you), lean or fatty protein (found in meat, nuts, seeds), and complex carbohydrates.
Avoiding wheat is a good idea since most people have a low tolerance for gluten.
But sugar and refined carbohydrates are hideous for the human body and the food manufacturers know most people cannot eat what they produce in moderation.
Yes, enjoy the occasional donut (keeping in mind that most people don’t eat donuts in moderation), but don’t kid yourself about what you are eating; and even more importantly, don’t tell yourself it’s just one donut if you’re eating donuts every day.
arguingwithsignposts
more food pr0n! to counteract this sh*t I find in my e-mail this am. teabaggers in the NYT!
eco2geek
It always annoys me to no end to listen to Bill Maher go on about fat people. He’s one of those who thinks that high-fructose corn syrup contributes to the obesity epidemic.
(I’ll stop eating hamburgers when you stop smoking pot, Bill.)
My personal opinion is that how fat you are has a lot more to do with your personal makeup (i.e. your metabolism and genetics) and how much exercise you get than how much high-fructose corn syrup you consume.
jeffreyw
@arguingwithsignposts:
Yer wish is my command, sir.
arguingwithsignposts
@jeffreyw: thank you, kind sir!
scarshapedstar
@Joel:
Really? For the classic offender — Coca-Cola — “processing” is basically this:
1) Fill a can about three quarters full with corn syrup
2) Add enough water to render product drinkable
@eco2geek:
Wow. So you won’t even admit that it ‘contributes’. Holy shit. Most people have difficulty ruling out ANYTHING as a contributing factor in situations like this. I guess this is the new global warming.
I know that your explanation for the eerie 1:1 correlation between the rises in obesity and corn syrup consumption will be that “correlation is not causation” but as some point denialists have to offer an alternative interpretation. Because to “those of us” it seems pretty fucking obvious what’s going on. Kids drink that shit up, and if they drink three or four then that’s hundreds to a thousand worthless calories every single day.
A child cannot “exercise” enough to burn off 1000 calories a day. It’s pure glibertarian fantasy to pretend that they can.
MikeJ
@scarshapedstar: So if a kid drinks three or four Mexican cokes made with pure cane sugar you think they won’t get fat?
Napoleon
Dweezil! Well I suppose he could have named it Moon Unit or something.
Warren Terra
@Napoleon:
Maybe it was going to be Ahmet but he worried that it might be profiled as a terrorist dog?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
People are getting ‘larger’. We can argue about how or why it’s happening but you can’t deny that it is happening. Last weekend I saw a large group of school kids hanging out in front of the local department store. Out of about 12-14 kids of jr. & high school age there, two were what I consider ‘normal’ (they were the size of I would consider the norm when I was in school). The rest were variations between what would have been considered ‘chunky’ and just flat out fat. I see this everywhere I go, lots of large people.
The kids on our block are a bunch of butterballs, very few are what I would consider a normal weight for their age. I see them outside periodically but with the number of kids our neighborhood has it’s too damned quiet too often. We’re a bunch of skinny shits here but we pay attention to the food we eat and our caloric intake. NO HFCS is allowed, at all. No boxed dinners, the wife is an excellent cook and a frugal shopper. We still like ice cream, cookies and the like but in moderation.
Anyone who says that this is expensive to do doesn’t know what they are talking about. I bet we spend less on the supplies we purchase than an equivalent family who lives off of Kraft mac & cheese, Stovetop Stuffing and such swill.
Eating good food is important but as mentioned above, caloric intake is one of the biggest problems out there. For whatever reason, some people just eat too much and never burn it off. One friend of mine admits that he can’t stop eating shit but at least he admits it, too many others I know are in denial as to their real problem. I have nothing against people who struggle with weight issues, I just hate seeing the problem only getting bigger (no pun intended) as time passes.
Being overweight used to be the exception, now it’s getting to be the rule.
Jill
The vitriol being directed by the progressive blogosphere at Kevin Smith and the rest of us who aren’t a size 2 would be amusing if it weren’t so appalling. People who would scream bloody murder if broad brushes were applied to any other group see no problem in painting everyone who is overweight as a lazy, gluttonous, smelly, disgusting, id-driven selfish bastard who sits on the sofa all day eating donuts and won’t even get up off the sofa to put the dish in the sink.
When you’re overweight, you can be munching on celery sticks and someone will tell you that you shouldn’t eat it. The idea that someone who is overweight DOESN’T eat donuts, stays away from anything with HFCS, doesn’t eat chips, loves salads and fish and veggies and grains just can’t register. We live in a society where those of us who tend to hang onto weight are told “Well, you just have to eat a lot less and work out a lot more than other people.”
How much less? Do they know that when you put your body into starvation mode, it responds by slowing down your metabolism even more? As for working out more, well, perhaps someone can tell me WHEN that’s supposed to happen? I have a job with a heavy workload and tight deadlines. We have a company gym and I go when I can, but yes, I refuse to have a life that consists of nothing but working and working out. That isn’t living.
But the biggest irony to me is how the overweight seem to be the only group that progressives still feel comfortable bashing en masse.
stacie
On the food topic… I have allergies to several common filler agents. They’re not serious in the way that a kid and peanuts can be, but a few years back I had the epiphany that perhaps my body’s continual allergic reaction indicated that constant exposure to soy fluff in everything is a poor health choice for me.
So I do lots of interesting things with my garden, with cooking, and with food preservation, and I love to talk about them because I find them interesting and exciting. But I find it’s a pretty loaded topic for a lot of people, who, upon learning of my heirloom tomato garden and my unwillingness to eat a lot of processed food, suddenly get defensive about their own… well, everything. Which is just horrible.
I can only have kick ass hobbies in private. That’s all I’m saying.
MikeJ
@Jill: I didn’t see anyone here bash fat people. I don’t know about the rest of the progressive blogosphere because 1) it’s not a subject I’m that interested in and b) arguments based on what all the members of a group are supposedly doing are usually pretty stupid.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Jill:
My next door neighbors are a perfect example of people who could care less about what they put in their mouths. Three women living together; an elderly woman, her daughter and the daughter’s daughter, who is an adult. All three are morbidly obese and they live on takeout everything. Every week their garbage can is overflowing with KFC bags, takeout pizzas and the like. I know this because it frequently gets blown into our yard and out in the street. The elderly mother gets around on one of those scooters and the other two will be following suit one day. Every night, takeout.
Interestingly enough the elderly woman’s daughter is a nurse.
I know that every person is a unique case and that every person who is overweight isn’t because they consciously chose to be so, I get that. Regardless, people like my neighbors are out there and it’s clear that they just don’t care about their health.
SGEW
If this is where we list our sins, I confess that I am addicted to doritos brand tortilla chips. It’s the MSG, I suspect. Shameful, I know.
@arguingwithsignposts; re: the NYT “Tea Party” piece.
I actually thought it was a pretty well written introduction to the rather . . . peculiar . . . underlying tension in the so called movement, at least for for people who haven’t heard or read much about it.
However, it has nothing on today’s Onion coverage of the split within the Tea Party:
Also: Oh, Dweezil. That is one snuggly puppeh, all right.
SGEW
Also also, as far as people in the blogosphere hating on people with weight problems goes, did anyone else catch Dan “Unbelievable Asshole” Riehl’s egregious assholery about Megan McCain? Here is a link to it, if you dare (warning: links to Dan Riehl).
demo woman
@SGEW: Thanks for the onion link. After reading the NYTimes article, my stomach was in knots and the Onion just puts everything in perspective.
Dweezil is so cute.
Linda Featheringill
To all People of Size [including me]:
One day, probably after we are all dead and gone, they will figure all of this out and cure obesity.
In the meantime, being overweight is neither a sin nor a crime. Chill. Fat people manage to be loved. They manage to reproduce.
Concentrate instead on what you want to contribute to this world while you are here. Consider the case of George Orwell. Not pretty, not sexy. However, he was brilliant and creative as hell! We would all be impoverished if he had not spent time on this earth.
Will the same be said about you and me?
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@SGEW: “Also: Oh, Dweezil. That is one snuggly puppeh, all right.”
Puppies are cuter than cute but that’s a natural defense mechanism to keep kind souls being kind souls when the puppy inevitably pisses on the carpet (or on you!). ;)
Nothing wrong with a cute fuzzy puppy, absolutely nothing at all. :)
BruceFromOhio
KC Masterpiece Ruffles(TM) will be the downfall of Western Civilization.
Dweezil cute, yes.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Linda Featheringill:
One of my favorite ‘big’ people when I was growing up was Sebastian Cabot. Watching him on Family Affair made me wish I was Jody. I thought he was the nicest man, especially to kids…lol! As an adult I learned of his more adult pursuits and I have always enjoyed watching him in his many varied works.
A very talented man, correction, a very talented gentleman.
rootless_e
Just because I’m petty, I want to point out that BTD came here yesterday to argue that characterizing a Michael Barone essay as “wingnut spin” was lying.
Goodness gracious.
Xenos
To the degree there is a political angle to the obesity epidemic, the background is well established by Orwell (Road to Wigan Pier) and Mintz (Sweetness and Power). I guess both need to be updated, but they do a good job of explaining how as individuals and a society we have made some questionable choices.
Xenos +40 (lbs, that is)
John O
Thanks, y’all.
He’s a joy so far, and learning his potty training just fine.
It’s really funny to watch him climb our snow mountains, because he just keeps breaking through and soldiering on. He’s very good wiith other dogs and people. We’ve done our morning chores, and he’s resting peacefully next to me working on his bone.
I have animal magnetism…but it just doesn’t work on humans. :-)
Brick Oven Bill
Speaking of farms, he was sent to protect a threatened group of farmers. Enroute, he led his men past slaughtered farm children whose smelling corpses, along with those of their parents, were being consumed by pigs.
His detachment of forty achieved superior situational awareness over thirty two and took station. The initial volley dropped eight or ten and the confrontation was won. The French commander stood before him, musket at his feet, and attempted to negotiate a surrender.
Not being fluent in French, he struggled to understand. But his Indian ally, Tanacharison, spoke French. Standing before the French commander, Tanacharison, said:
“Father, you are not yet dead.”
And then split his head in two with a hatchet. Pulling out the French commander’s brain and washing his hands with the blood and tissue, Tanacharison nodded at his Indians who fell upon the disarmed Frenchmen, killing and scalping them as they screamed.
The triumph felt by the twenty-two year old Virginian surely turned to shock. Thus began the French and Indian War. Thus also a young man grew up quickly, destined to achieve great things.
Yesterday was ‘President’s Day’, which is no longer called ‘George Washington’s Birthday’. It does not really bother me that we all missed it because George Washington’s birthday is not until February 22nd.
Cheryl from Maryland
I would add to Annie’s trenchant observations that not only do many people need a great unifying narrative to understand the world, but these are the same people who are infused with the American self-help narrative. And they need validation. So while they constantly search for approval by touting their success, they also have to help others with EVERYTHING. Because that means their lives are going well. If I have one more person at my office offer homeopathic medicines for my allergies, I will be tempted to follow Mr. Cole’s model and punch that person in the neck.
Luthe
What we need is a complete overhaul of the farm bill and a switch from corn subsidies to subsidies for a wide variety of fruits and vegetables. Right now, things like chips, soda, and beef, which are primarily corn-based, have a much higher calorie per dollar value than fruits and veggies. The price of fresh produce also increases faster than the price of corn-based foods.
Of course, this is never going to happen, because the lobbyists for the corn producers will call up their pet Congress-critters, who will scream bloody murder and let Ben Nelson rip the entrails out of any bill that may make it as far as the Senate.
Ryan
Only Americans can mistake the dissemination of information about healthy eating and perceive it as a personal attack. I really don’t care about how you eat, if you want to have a donut once in a while, by all means do so; but when your unhealthy habits start to put stress on a health care system that I have to pay into and which I get much less out of, well then it starts to impact me as well.
Darkmoth
@Ryan:
Meh. I’m sure you’ll be going after people with stressful jobs who don’t exercise. And motorcycle riders – actually anyone who’s recreation involves moving faster than 5-10 mph, in padding. And those insensitive bastards who don’t eat a balanced diet.
Hey you put down that steak, what am I, made of money??
chopper
@Joel:
yes and no. yes, HFCS is very similar to table sugar. however, it’s already broken down, and that makes a difference in metabolism.
your body regulates the uptake of glucose and fructose in sugar by varying the amount of sucrase, the enzyme that breaks it down, in your small intestine. this allows the body to spread the uptake of sugars out over time rather than spiking it directly into your system as in HFCS.
that being said, there are plenty of foods that already have the simplest sugars in abundance – fruit, for example, which has fructose – which is why people who tout fruit juice over calorie-equivilent sodas as being ‘healthier’ are missing the point. when you eat the whole fruit you don’t spike your blood sugar because you’re also eating other stuff like fiber which slows down digestion of the sugars.
sweetgreensnowpea
it’s hard to be human (we have to stop hurting each other!)
which is why we were given dogs…and cats…reminders of unconditional love. examples of beingness and what joy there is in life…(perhaps. the more i learn, the less i know).
what a beautiful puppeh!
(and blessings to you anne laurie, and j.c., et al.
i come to this site for teh heart)
serge
Damn, that dog sure knows how to sleep.
Ryan
I’m not going after anyone, I’m just saying that people shouldn’t get upset when they hear information about healthy habits. If it makes you feel inadequate when you hear that your own personal habits are unhealthy, well too f’ing bad.
sweetgreensnowpea
it’s hard to be human (we have to stop hurting each other!)
and so we were given dogs…and cats… (all manner of innocent creatures and beautiful things) to remind us of unconditional love and beingness and what joy there is in life.
what a beautiful puppeh!
and thank you anne laurie and j.c., et al . i come here daily for your heart.
Jane2
Those are the same purse-lipped people who go to Vegas while decrying lotteries and aboriginal casinos as “a tax on the poor”. May they all be buried in a size 0 coffin lined with Lotto 649 stubs.
Caya
@Ryan: You do realize, of course, that obese people cost the health system less, not more (same goes for smokers, by the way)?
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/health/15293006.html
Punchy
Speaking of dogs, we tried to cone our greyhound yesterday. BAD IDEA. Sight hounds do not take to a cone well at all. After 12+ hours of her shaking, refusing to lie down, and general parental angst, we gave up. She’ll now wear a shirt until her leg heals.
Parenting isn’t always fun, I’ve learned.
ChrisS
I wish organic food were affordable for everyone
This is such a bullshit whine that it drives me batty. People that will spend hours comparing reviews of DVD players, or cars, or books, won’t think twice about what they put into their body. Good food is expensive because quantity doesn’t equate to quality. Corn-derived foodstuffs are cheap because of massive government subsidies, loose regulations (nice deadzone in the gulf of mexico, how’d that get there?) that encourage unsustainable farming practices, and oil. A nice organic carrot isn’t cheaper, but it’s sure as hell better for you and the environment. While the energy in each calorie is equivalent, the nutrition is not.
I’ve never been necessarily a thin person (I’m more a linebacker build – without the six-pack), but over the last few years I noticed that pants weren’t fitting anymore and that I was gaining chins. I like wings and beer. A lot apparently. I still eat them, but I log my calories now using an app on my iPhone. In three months I lost 20lbs just by watching what I was shoving into my maw. I used to think that I ate donuts and chips, and hamburgers, and wings and beer in moderation. After logging my food, I discovered that my sense of moderation was deeply skewed. And combined with a regiment
For every person that says that they’re overweight despite that fact that they “eat really healthy,” there are 20 that subsist on cheap, energy-dense foods that lack nutrition.
Face
Ignorance wins again. Apparently your child has never been through a 3 hour swim practice. Every day.
ChrisS
@Caya:
Well, that study is based on a model with very broad generalizations(the actual study is here) and was strictly limited to obesity and smoking without regard to scocioeconomic status. Additionally, costs of care (old age) were equated with costs of treatment (disease).
It’s a neat study, but they it doesn’t put a cost on suffering or reduced productivity. Healthy people work more during their most productive years and can still contribute during their dotage while unhealthy people are using motorized scooters and toting around oxygen tanks.
RedKitten
My weakness is definitely potato chips as well, especially Miss Vickie’s Black Pepper & Lime-flavoured kettle chips. When we get a bag of them, I turn into a possessive she-wolf.
However, I could probably ignore the chips if I were snorgling that warm, fragrant puppeh belleh…..
And I’d lose my appetite from the tags on this post, because when you use the words “dog” and “assholes” that close together, I cannot help but get a visual.
Marc
Let me get this straight. We should support powerful corporate interests pushing unhealthy dietary choices…because saying anything about diet and exercise changes in the global population might make some people feel badly about themselves?
Lack of exercise and eating too much food induces weight gain. Setting kids up with unhealthy habits makes it likely that they’ll be obese; it’s much harder to be healthy if you never had any experience with proper diet and exercise.
This isn’t “self-righteousness”, it’s common sense.
chopper
@Ryan:
everybody has unhealthy habits. but apparently there’s something about being overweight that brings out the righteous indignation in people.
the funny thing is, way back in the day husky meant healthy. i guess our ever-evolving culture decided that since we have such easy access to food all the time we have to be skinny as a rail to be beautiful because we no longer worry about where our calories come from or if they’ll even be there tomorrow.
chopper
@RedKitten:
i read that and though of utah philips’ reference to ‘dog’s bottom pie’.
chopper
@Face:
as a kid i could metabolize anything. jesus, i could burn 500 calories reading a magazine.
Andrew
You mean carbohydrate-laden potato chips?
Emma
Healthy habits my ass. I am Anne Laurie’s size. I exercise every other day and I take long walks aroun my neighborhood once in a while(photography). One person of my acquaintance is on a medically regulated diet to control her diabetes and “tendency to obesity”; she weighs one hundred and ten (yes, folks, 110) pounds, walks every day, eats one slice of dark bread, one slice of diet cheese, and two leaves of lettuce every day for lunch. Guess whose medical tests are normal? Yep. Mine.
I do have a natural tendency to avoid certain things: I do not like fruit juice, but would much rather have fruit, for example. I like vegetables and grow them because I like to garden. I prefer dark bread, the darker the better. I also eat white rice almost every day (Cuban, what can I tell you) and sometimes make dinner out of a big piece of French bread dipped in olive oil and piled high with tomatoes from my garden.
As I am fairly happy and healthy and haven’t had any illness any of you have had to pay for lately, get the hell off my body.
Andrew
In part because the fix for being overweight is quite simple (though not necessarily easy).
And we have seen such indignation before, and now cigarette smoking is much more rare.
Other dangerous activities are priced more correctly. It’s expensive to get motorcycle insurance if you’re a young male. We have very high cigarette taxes. Etc.
The problem with food is that it’s cheap and bad for you. If it were bad for you and expensive, it wouldn’t be such a problem.
Jamey
More obnoxious than the excesses of the food police (characterized by your bolded quote), Anne, is the 3-XL-sized pushback.
After the first sentence fragment, I honestly lost count of the straw-man arguments in your post.
Better opinionating, please.
Andrew
If you’re happy with your size, fine, but it would be pretty simple to change your behavior and diet to improve your body composition.
Long slow walks are not useful for improving body composition. Lift weights.
Veggies, great! Olive oil, great! Bread and rice, not so much.
Darkmoth
@Ryan:
“Going after” was probably too strong a term, granted. But am I the only one who is royally freaked out about how casually we’re building the causal chain that allows person X to dictate Person Y’s behavior?
If you can prove that my base-jumping costs society money, you’re just given society a very good reason to curtail it. Proof of harm is the first step, we saw that with smoking. You used to be able to smoke in airplanes, now there are currently places where you can’t smoke in the open air.
In the case of smoking, proof of harm was clear and immediate (secondary smoke), and the effect was clear – demonization followed by increasing regulation. Fat people seem to be the new “smokers”, with the harm being increased healthcare costs. You may be glad to see smoking follow that path, but do you want obesity regulated?
If so, what’s next? Any activity where your cost or risk is amortized across society, is essentially a harm to society.
Emma
Andrew, dearest, which part of get the hell of my body did you miss? Let me put it this way: if you keep on handing out free advice you’re going to soon find out how much it’s worth.
Emma
And the edit function is wonky again….
Andrew
It’s interesting that people who feel the need to explain their situation in depth are so defensive when they get any sort of non-affirming response.
I’m not telling you to do anything.
I’m saying how to do something, if you want.
If hearing basic advice on improved body composition upsets you so much, I think that you’re probably not, in fact, so happy with your situation.
I’ve handed out this advice to several people and helped them achieve their desired results. It’s simple, healthy, and quite tasty. I’m off to eat my onion, pepper and ham egg scramble now.
Shinobi
It still makes me laugh how tons of people believe this idea that losing weight is a simple equation and that if you just want it bad enough you can be thin. The science behind dieting shows that this is pretty much untrue. In fact there are some studies that have shown that dieting itself may lead to some of the negative health effects associated with obesity. (And please don’t give me that b.s. about a lifestyle change, it makes me feel stabby.)
I highly recommend watching or reading anything you can by Paul Campos (Here is a great talk he gave. There was another one a few weeks ago that was more scientific and talked about weight related research but I can’t find the link now.)
I certainly think that there are things in the American diet that are bad for us, but who should we blame for that? People eating what is available? Or corporations and food subsidies that make the cheapest and most accessible food the worst for you? Naaah, lets blame the fatties, because people who are naturally thin like their coca cola, and they also like feeling superior to people who gain weight.
Emma
The problem with people like you, Andrew, is that you view everything that contradicts your opinion as “the other person being defensive”. It’s so…. republican.
Emma
Excuse me, but am I being censored? I tried to put a comment and this is what I got: this comment is deleted. It looks like you already said that!
WTF?
OK. It tried to enter it twice????? I hit the button once!
chopper
@Andrew:
the fix for all manner of dangerous behaviour is also quite simple.
WereBear
That is quite the Puppeh you got there, John O. I love his name!
May you both live long and prosper.
As it happens, Gary Taubes wrote Good Calories, Bad Calories, a consolidation of over a hundred years of metabolism science.
I’m a living example of his conclusions. For me, the key to health for weight, blood pressure, and blood chemistry was eliminating grains and starches and sugars. It was amazing! So I can’t help but feel that Science is the Way to Go.
YMMV. I have a co-worker my own age who lives on bread and low fat dairy products, and is very slim. But I can’t do that; eating a slice of whole grain bread makes me hungrier.
ChrisS
Michael Pollen’s The Omnivore’s Dilemma should be required reading.
You may be glad to see smoking follow that path, but do you want obesity regulated?
I want to see people understand that there is a direct link between the policies enacted by Congress and their health, which is translated through the food that is available at market. You can base jump all you want, I just don’t want congress legislating your personal risk away or making it a cheap alternative to taking the stairs by transferring the costs.
You don’t have to eat organic and “green” or lay off the chips if you want to be an unhealthy fatty. There won’t be a law that stipulates you have receive your foodbox from the community nutrition center. But for fuck sakes we can stop pretending that the only pertinent information about food is its cost or making it cheaper to drink soda than water or eat a processed beef-flavored burger and corn-chips than a salad.
Shutting down concentrated animal feeding lots, or at least regulating the waste stream, is not a direct attack on your lifestyle habits despite the fact that it may add 0.50 cents/lb to your ground beef. Encouraging sustainable farming practices will, yes, cause food to cost more. But judging from what I see in public, people are getting plenty to eat.
Andrew
It is a fairly simple equation, even considering the various feedback loops, at the macro level. The problem is that people have been told the wrong equation and wrong actions to take for several decades now.
chopper
@Andrew:
what’s wrong with bread and rice?
Andrew
Palin 2012!!!!!!
You’re down right angry about this diet thing, resorting to political jabs. I recommend cutting the simple carbs since they are a common cause of aroused emotional states (and the subsequent crashes).
WereBear
Don’t know where my comment went, but let me sum up:
Puppeh! Adorable! His NAME suits him. May you both live long and prosper.
And
This book by Gary Taubes, Good Calories, Bad Calories, is a real doorstopper, but he’s doing no less than summarizing over a hundred years of metabolism science. I loved it and found it an easy read, but to sum it up:
Carbohydrates are bad for you.
About seven years ago, I started eating with that in mind. Got great results. Science works.
(To be specific, I lost fifty pounds, lowered my blood pressure, and got other improvements. In six months. Without exercising. And kept it off these past years.)
And to me, this fits right in with how we now have “adult onset diabetes” in ten year olds. I can’t believe the amount of sugary/starchy junk kids eat these days.
ChrisS
I think the accusations of righteous indignation are misdirected.
And I think that shinobi should read the comments at Lose It!’s facebook page.
Andrew
They’re usually eaten with fats. Dietary fat with carbs in close temporal proximity typically leads to accumulation of body fat.
Some bread or rice (with protein), especially right before and after exercise is fine. Unfortunately, that’s not that common.
(And white bread is bad in all cases. You really want all of your carbs to be fibrous.)
The simple rule that applies in this case is that meals should typically be:
Protein + fat or protein + carbs.
The worst combination is fat + carbs.
McJulie
Actually, I think sugar is the enemy.
(I see it out there, skulking around the corners, trying to get a shot in when I’m not looking.)
I have blood sugar issues and seem to be hyper-sensitive to that sugar race/crash cycle, which leads me to avoid sugar, which (natch) makes me even more sensitive to the sugar when it does come my way.
(Although on the bonus side it makes me very sensitive to the sweet taste of things like grains and milk.)
The upshot is that I am very well aware of the fact that sugar is in bloody everything. In most social situations, if food is offered, it will be sweet food. If you end up trying to feed yourself from a vending machine, most of the offerings in front of you will be sugary.
And because sugar often makes me feel bad, I have an emotionally adversarial relationship to it. I feel like the world is always trying to shove sugar down my throat whether I want it or not. It’s not just that people like sugar, it’s that sugar is ubiquitous, inescapable.
Sugar is just a cheap way to make otherwise crappy food taste “better” to people — this seems fairly obvious. Sugar adds calories, messes with blood sugar, and provides no nutritional benefit — also, I believe, a non-controversial position. And there really are sugar barons out there, and they really are rich and powerful and busy manipulating our world for their own profits, and they are just about as filled with humanitarian goodness as the oil barons.
Shinobi
@Andrew:
Andrew, you’re right, the equation itself is fairly simple. Deceptively so because the way our bodies process energy is not.
There are genetic components that are important to consider. Research has shown that the largest predictor of weight is genes, it is more inheritable than pretty much anything but height. So the assumption that everyone in society would be thin even if they ate the exact same diet is fallacious.
Some people are fat, some people are tall, some people have brown hair, some people are thin (and can’t gain weight even if they want to.) Why should people who are just naturally fat be treated as lazy slobs, when they probably work twice as hard at being healthy as people who are geneticly normal.
eco2geek
@scarshapedstar: Of course high-fructose corn syrup (hereafter, HFCS) “contributes” to obesity, in the same way that gun ownership and possession contribute to the overall homicide and suicide rates in this country. (I knew I should have stuck to hamburgers and not mentioned HFCS.) It’s obviously not good policy, IMO, to let a soft drink manufacturer advertise in schools.
But my point was, I hardly ever eat anything containing HFCS, and I’m still overweight. (And it’s my responsibility.)
(And I do think that if your kid is slurping down too many sugary soft drinks, then maybe you as a parent ought to stop either buying them for your kid or stop giving your kid the money to buy them or…you get my drift. I think we need to spend as much time taking responsibility for what our kids eat as we do wringing our hands over all the junk there is out there for them to eat.)
WereBear
Okay, I’ll try it again, without links.
We’ve been told the wrong things about food since the late ’60s. As a society, we’ve lowered our fats and upped our carbohydrates. That was supposed to work… and it didn’t.
Seven years ago, I took everything about the way I was eating before and turned it inside out and upside down. I cut way down on any carbohydrates and upped my protein and fat. And got healthier!
Speaking of which, I love that puppeh, and assume his name suits him. In the hopes that he lives long and prospers, get him food that has a lot of meat in it (and since I can’t link, I think) you might look into the BARF diet for dogs.
Just keeping those principles in mind has my cats happy and healthy and with shiny fur.
Shinobi
@ChrisS: Why? Do you want me to go on a murderous rampage?
I’ll admit, it could be amusing.
I’m not saying that weight loss is impossible, but weight regain after dieting typically happens within 5 years. MOst weight loss studies will stop after 3 and you can already see the weight coming back on the participants. I’m not just talking out my ass here, there is actual science showing that long term dieting does not work. Eventually the body can adjust the way you process energy and keep you from losing more weight (no matter how little you eat) and then you can start gaining. Many many studies bear this out over time. Even bariatric surgery patients often regain a large portion of the weight they lost.
We just don’t hear about them, because no one wants to hear they are going to be fat forever (the worst EVAH.) Also, the diet industry would like your money.
KDP
I was and am offended at the media (and now Michelle Obama’s) focus on ‘the obesity crisis.’ It is NOT body size, per se, that is unhealthy. It is lifestyle habits that are unhealthy, sometimes because of the unavailability of nutritious options, sometimes because of emotional responses to stress or boredom.
We now know that, in large part, our body size is genetically determined. Yes, if one consumes 10k calories a day and is sedentary, one will become unnaturally obese.
Some people, though, are naturally larger than others. They eat normal portions of healthy foods, they exercise, and remain large. Our media-driven obsession with body size as an indicator of health is both misleading and dangerous, and the most commonly referenced measure of normal body size, the BMI, is based on an actuarial table, not on empirical scientific evidence. It doesn’t help that in the late ’90s the table ranges were ‘adjusted’ in a way that, overnight, shifted large numbers of people from normal to overweight, and from overweight to obese. Did those people change their habits or size? No, an arbitrary measure was changed that shifted individuals into a category that generalized them as unhealthy.
It is not the size of your body that is unhealthy. It is the way you nourish and use your body that creates poor health. There are millions of thin and normal people who are unhealthy due to poor nutrition and lack of exercise, but they are not shamed or called out because they ‘look’ normal. We also know that yo-yo dieting is more unhealthy than maintaining a consistent weight through healthy lifestyle habits.
Assuming that fat people are unhealthy just because of the way they look is a false equivalency. Correlation does not equal causation. And the social negativity over body size creates a class of people who are stigmatized for something that may not be within their control to change.
Some people are naturally large. They are not unhealthy.
All of that being said, some people are fat for reasons that have nothing to do with nature,but stigmatizing them for that does not create an environment conducive to developing the sense of self-efficacy, self-worth and self-esteem that can help people who comfort eat, or binge eat, or stress eat to develop a healthy relationship with their bodies and their lives.
All of that being said, I am of normal size, but I developed bulimia many years ago when health issues caused an unexpected weight increase. Several years, group therapy, and allowing myself to be who I was at that time were all instrumental factors in my ability to develop a healthy relationship with food again.
A couple of years ago, the morning and talk shows were running segments about fat acceptance and health at every size. Now, they are back to obsessing about the ‘obesity crisis’ rather than promoting healthy living regardless of size.
What I think we should be advocating for is the last. Health at Every Size (HAES) focuses on developing a healthy relationship with yourself including what you eat, how you move and the life choices you make. HAES proponents don’t obsess over every calorie consumed; they focus on eating in a way that allows you to respect yourself.
Links:
Illustrated BMI
BMI Flawed
But, but, but… Fat is unhealthy
HAES study
HAES report
Alright, clearly this is a hot button for me, but I think it is morally reprehensible for people to make a determination about the habits of others because of the way they look. I hate the ‘Biggest Loser’ shows as they focus too much on weight loss and too little on healthy living. Additionally, it should be noted that most who follow a HAES program become healthier whether or NOT they lose weight. They may gain or lose weight simply because their body is allowed to achieve its homeostasis with respect to weight.
Anne Laurie, thank you for the post. I hope that I have contributed productively to the dialogue.
WereBear
I give up.
If any of my comments show up, I apologize for the repetition.
Barbara
I hate to see this debated in ways that create defensiveness and hard lines that don’t make sense and lead away from understanding.
Eating sweets does beget a larger appetite for sweets — If you eat something sweet in the morning, you tend to crave sweets all day. So, although I am hardly exhibit A, not eating something sweet in the morning can really cut down on your craving for sweets: a banana plus V-8 would be a really great breakfast (just overlook the sodium for now!).
The problem with HFCS is that it is put into so many foods, even those that are not supposed to be sweet, like tomato sauce, thus intensifying the craving for sweet things. It also adds non-nutritional calories to those foods, again, like spaghetti sauce. Maybe you read the article about Domino’s spiking its pizza sauce with sugar — they don’t do that because it makes people eat less of it!
I think craving a sweet taste is a natural result of evolutionary biology because a relatively sweet thing is far less likely to be toxic. Unfortunately, our culture of abundance has made this a continuous challenge for almost all of us.
It’s hard to be moderate with things like donuts, it’s true, so the key is not to buy a dozen doughnuts at a time, but go to the store and buy one or two only and make it a special occasion.
There is no doubt, as a commenter above said, that the key to a healthier lifestyle starts one step at a time, with things like substituting water for soda, adding a 20 or 30 minutes a day of activity to your routine, and so on.
I ignore the people who say things like doughnuts are the road to perdition, the same way I ignore people who think diet is the key to curing or preventing arthritis or cancer.
Emma
Andrew, dear God, you’re one of those Health Nazis. I had never met one before. You don’t get or don’t want to get what I’m saying. All you hear is I’m so superior and so knowledgeable why aren’t you bowing down to me?
Vaya con Dios, mijo. I’ll keep enjoying my life and my perfectly good medical checkups. You can go on your way being a pain in the arse to everyone you met.
Marc
Our genetics haven’t changed, but the average weight of people has changed dramatically. That is very clear proof that changes in diet and exercise can cause changes in *average* weight.
Furthermore, if it is so terribly hard to change weight as an adult – then it is that much more important for kids to develop healthy habits and avoid becoming obese in the first place.
I appreciate the challenges that some folks have in dealing with their weight, but things like cheap sugar water in elementary schools are corporate revenue sources, not acts of God. Things like social pressure to drive kids to school instead of letting them walk are bad for health and societies can make different priorities and choices.
Andrew
I completely agree. However, looking at societal trends, we see that large segments of society have gained a lot of weight over the past 60 years or so. The genetics haven’t changed significantly over that period. However, food has gotten a lot cheaper and HFCS has been injected into food and drink. So those folks genetically predisposed to gaining weight are now living in what is basically a hyper-caloric society. Of course they’ll gain weight.
This is the issue at the societal level and should be addressed by, as previously mentioned, rolling back corn subsidies and pricing all of the negative externalities of corn production. Variability in body types will remain, but this prescription would hopefully shift the general population’s body composition away from obesity.
Individual prescriptions for improving body composition are a fairly independent issue.
Emma
Marc, I agree with you completely about the kids’ health habits. I’m old enough to remember coming back from school and playing in the streets with my friends until the sun went down. Jumping rope, hanging from the trees… That’s one thing I don’t see many kids doing.
Some parents are trying. In my neighborhood one or two families have put those portable basketball hoops on their driveways and you see kids playing on the weekends and stuff. But during the week, it’s a desert out there. Sad.
KDP
My comment at 79 with links to an illustrated BMI, and articles about BMI flaws and Health at Every Size is in moderation. I’m pleased to note that later posts are promoting the same concepts. Maybe I’ll make it out of moderation. Thanks for the post Anne Laurie.
ChrisS
Thin is relative.
I have a 14-inch drop from my chest to my waist. That’s abnormal. I can’t buy dress shirts off the rack in the US because a 17 inch neck apparently corresponds to a 40 inch waist. So shirts make me look like I’m wearing a tent around the waist. I had lost 12 lbs when I went to my doctor and he was surprised because he said I didn’t have much weight to lose anyway. I’m 6′ and 215 lbs and I could probably lose another 15-20 pounds, but at no point will I be “thin” and wearing hipster jeans. However, I will be healthier.
But my point was, I hardly ever eat anything containing HFCS
Not personally directed at you, but most people are surprised at what they actually consume versus what they think they consume without logging their foods. I was surprised at how much garbage I ate when I thought I was eating “healthy”.
In most social situations, if food is offered, it will be sweet food.
Or loaded with fat. The easiest way to mask the poor or bland taste of processed food is to obscure it with sweeteners or fat, or make it spicy. Hot peppers are pretty low-calorie (though sodium can be a concern in bottled sauces). Sweeteners and fats are not. Factory-farmed chicken doesn’t taste like much. Deep-fried breaded chicken fingers with a chipotle ranch dipping sauce tastes great. Given a choice between the $5.99 chicken fingers (with fries ‘natch) and a 12.99 salad with grilled free-range chicken and a vinaigrette is an all too easy choice these days.
Shinobi
@Andrew:
I’m all about any kind of initiative that can help the population be have a healthier more balanced diet. (And a more active lifestyle.)
I just think we need to stop demonizing fat people as though they are the problem. It doesn’t help us get thinner, and it doesn’t help us address the actual issues in our society. I think we need to focus on the overall health of society, and not the weight.
Darkmoth
@ChrisS:
The Congressional angle is a fair point, and I’d agree that laws preferring base-jumpers (or fat people) would be wrong. Is there some reason to believe that legislation is transferring the risks of obesity onto the non-obese? If so, I’d be against it.
The problem is that the burger and chips is always going to be “cheaper” because it takes less time than the salad. You can pick up the phone and call Domino’s, total time investment 90 seconds. Or, you can hit the market periodically for a selection of fresh produce, then add prep time, then add cleanup time. The opportunity cost of the time difference is significant.
As a nation, time is becoming our scarce resource. For example, I get home from work at 7pm, usually brain-dead. Have to help the kid with the hour-and-a-half of homework they get nowadays, then walk the dogs. We own a small coffee shop my wife runs, she gets home a bit earlier but after a long day of waiting on people. Do either of us feel remotely like cooking? Not really. More importantly, it’s worth it to us to pay someone else to cook. Too often, that someone else is a take-out joint.
If Domino’s delivered fresh salads, but you had to make Big Macs from scratch (including Special Sauce ™), I’m fairly certain we’d be a nation of proto-vegetarians.
liberty60
@Marc:
This.
I celebrate everyone’s right to eat and live as they see fit, but I don’t think its good public policy to subsidize poor nutrition and traffic patterns that discourage exercise.
Most local zoning codes, for example, favor “functional zoning” that is, placing commercial uses far, far away from residential uses. So we find ourselves living in communities where the store/post office/ shopping mall/ workplace are all too far away to walk.
That is not an act of God or market circumstance, that is a deliberate action of public policy.
Andrew
Once again, I agree.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t provide the best possible recommendations for people who want to change their body composition.
Most of the “dieting” advice given out, to this very day, is simply wrong. But we know, largely from sports science and bodybuilding, exactly how to change body composition. The problem is that almost none of this information gets out of that arena to the general public, and we’re left with the nonsense spouted by Cosmo or the USDA food pyramid.
ChrisS
Marc/Emma, re: walking to school,
I was just talking with my boss about this the other day. When I went to school, I walked to centralized bus stop (about 1,000 yards, maybe less) with all the other kids in the neighborhood. There were the volunteer safety patrol (5th/6th graders) and a few adult monitors (volunteers maybe, I don’t know) at the bus stop.
Last week, I was driving to work (not much longer, moving soon) and was stuck behind a school bus in a village-type neighborhood that was stopping at each house to pick up the kid there and then driving a 100 feet and picking up the next kid.
However, food has gotten a lot cheaper and HFCS has been injected into food and drink
Pollan pointed out that market growth for corn is relatively fixed to population growth and that people won’t easily ingest more calories than needed. However, Agribusiness can replace calories derived from other foods with corn-derived calories and increase calories in foods (a 2 ounce, 100 calorie granola bar versus a 2 ounce 180 calorie granola bar). Voila, increased market growth.
Darkmoth
@Andrew:
Honestly, I think you’re over-complicating it. The weight equation is:
Caloric intake – (Basal Metabolic Rate + Activity)
Divide the result by 3500 and that’s how many pounds you gain or lose. That knowledge alone is enough to manage your weight. Everything else just puts money into the pockets of Dr Adkins and his ilk down in South Beach.
WereBear
@liberty60: You’ve hit on one of my SO’s pet peeves.
And how much of society’s DWI problems stem from the fact that there is no other way to get to the places that sell booze? Obviously, these kinds of convivial gatherings seem branded in our DNA; why legislate that all such places are far away from population centers?
I’ve lived in the suburbs, and it’s hell to drive 20 minutes to get a dang stick of butter.
And it’s also completely insane.
Andrew
The problem with applying such basic thermodynamics is that BMR can change drastically over relatively short periods of time.
Yes, if you can ensure that you’re at a 500 calorie deficit each day, you should lose a pound a week. However, the body will adapt to a consistent caloric deficit making it harder and harder to maintain that deficit each day. In particular, straight caloric deficit diets will lead to muscle catabolism, which is the last thing you want.
That’s why you do need to consider nutrient types and timing. However, such things still aren’t particularly complicated. Eat fibrous carbs, mainly veggies. Focus your carb consumption around your workout. Eat protein with all of your meals. Eat more good fats. Etc.
ChrisS
@Darkmoth:
If Domino’s delivered fresh salads, but you had to make Big Macs from scratch (including Special Sauce™), I’m fairly certain we’d be a nation of proto-vegetarians.
I can grab an hour-old pre-made salad at Wegman’s for $5.99 for lunch, or I can wait in line for a few minutes and get a roast beef sub with the works for $6.99. That sub tastes great. Like really great. I usually, against my better judgment, get the sub. The sub costs a little more in both time and money, but I get the sub because I get more flavor (carbs & fats) with the sub. Also I get waaaaay more calories. Calories I don’t need because I sit at a desk for 8 hours and then sit in a car for another hour and change each day.
If the roast beef (or ham or turkey) wasn’t so cheap because of subsidized corn and non-existant waste stream regulations on corporate meat production, would my decision to take the sandwich still be pretty easy? What if it was $9.99 or $12.99 for the sandwich and the salad was $4.99?
Or would we just see an endless parade of talking heads, corporate shills and politicians claiming that stupid eco-nuts are trying to starve honest, God-fearing Americans who are just genetically predisposed to weight gain by increasing the cost of food?
WereBear
See, it’s a basic fallacy in people’s experience that also contributes to myths about weight.
If I had a donut for every person who told me how they “easily” lost weight just by cutting down on their portions, or getting a little more exercise, I’d be able to open a donut shop. I’d be the Warren Buffet of donuts, ‘kay?
Once upon a time, I listened to the current wisdom, and it worked… I ate low fat and worked out two hours a day.
One injury, and bam! I couldn’t work out at all. Now even the smallest amounts of food put weight on. I was in deep trouble; either I resign myself to being perpetually hungry (which doesn’t work) or I had to come up with something new. Researching on the web, low carb made sense to me, and I’m much happier, seven years later.
If any of the “it’s so simple” people have been perpetually hungry since then, I’d like to hear from them.
4jkb4ia
What, I can’t say that the FISA document dump is a good granular examination of making sausage, even if that sausage was from a chazir?
I am a Person of Size too. It’s portion sizes. I make perfectly healthy food. This morning I ate too much trail mix for breakfast.
Noted without comment: the teabaggers in the Barstow article who believe that “health reform is a ruse to control their medical choices and drive them into the arms of insurance conglomerates” Admittedly this is Idaho, and a Democrat in Idaho is Walt Minnick who has the virtue of not being crazy, but you wonder what would have to happen for these folks to believe in government again. Does the issue of NSLs and business records in Patriot Act reauthorization reach the media these folks attend to? That qualified as comment.
4jkb4ia
I think Mary Douglas was the one who did the anthropological examination of the kosher laws.
4jkb4ia
@ChrisS:
Noted.
chopper
@Andrew:
that isn’t a problem with bread and rice. that’s like saying cars are bad because of the drive-through.
Darkmoth
@ChrisS:
Good points. I hadn’t really considered how upstream corporate policy affects a decision like salad vs sub. They don’t seem connected, until you lay it out.
chopper
@Emma:
andy reminds me of those guys who just *have* to let you know that they don’t have a television.
russell
Some people are skinny and some people are heavy, regardless of what they eat. And if people are very skinny or very heavy, there’s not a lot of value in giving them sh*t about it.
So I don’t really care all that much if some individual person is heavy or skinny. We all have our good and bad habits, and our good and bad points.
But there is more or less a generation of kids coming up who are going to die about 10 or 15 years younger than they ought to, in large part because they spend their days eating processed, artificially sweetened industrial product instead of f*cking food.
They’re going to die.
And there are, in fact, political policies that go a long way toward making that happen.
If folks make critical comments about the policies that encourage the production of crappy, unhealthy food, maybe other folks should just take them for what they are worth at that level, and not assume somebody’s picking on them or making snarky comments about their lifestyle.
Young people are literally dying from this crap. It’s not because they’re lazy, or weak, or stupid, or anything else. It’s because the food that is available to them is designed to be an efficient industrial product, rather than food.
That’s worth getting pissed off about.
Andrew
There’s no inherent problem with bullets, either. I mean, until they enter a person at high speed.
Of course the main problems of bread and rice depend on their interaction with other nutrients, which is also how they are commonly consumed. It’s the system that’s the primary problem. Like I said, they’re okay if consumed with at the right time and with protein.
Again, all carbs that are low in fiber are problematic, so white bread and white rice have inherent problems — and these are very common in the American diet.
Again, a simple rule for improved body composition: replace your carbs from starches and grains with veggies.
Andrew
I know! Being a hipster that’s too cool for mainstream culture is EXACTLY like giving out useful advice on dieting!
Blue Raven
@Darkmoth: First, it’s spelled Atkins. Second, part of the issue is people want a one size fits all answer to complex metabolic issues and they don’t exist. The only way I feel better and control my eating is if I stick to a carb-reduced diet. Induction levels, at that. But other people can’t eat that way. Fine. Telling me that what works for my body is snake oil is bullshit.
Darkmoth
@Andrew:
Unfortunately, none of that will make any difference unless you are (implictly or explicitly) maintaining a caloric deficit. Eat 4000 calories of fibrous carbs, and you will gain more weight than the guy that eats 2000 calories of fried chicken. I completely agree that nutrition is important, two dieters with the same deficit will have different health based on their nutrition. But given the same deficit, they will lose weight at the same rate.
The reason this simplicity is important is because it removes at least two barriers to dieting – complexity and taste. You don’t have to teach someone to rotate carbs or whatever. You don’t have to force them to eat foods they dislike. They can lose weight eating Big Macs and KFC, if that floats their boat. It’s quite liberating, in a way.
Check out The Hacker’s Diet. In my opinion, it’s the best way of dieting out there.
Blue Raven
@Andrew: You were told not to and you pushed it. You’re being a jerk. So yes, that IS exactly like being a hipster.
Andrew
I was told not to? Oh noes! I guess I had better not say anything!
Would it be okay for me to tell you not to ever, ever respond to me? I could, but that would be silly.
If you don’t want people to respond to you, sometimes even critically, do not post in a DISCUSSION thread. Start your own blog and turn off the comments.
PS I don’t think you get what hipsters are.
Andrew
Again, BMR can change quite drastically depending on nutrition and timing. So, a certain caloric deficit will be sustainable under certain conditions and not others.
That’s why it’s important to manage satiety and avoid insulin spikes. Carbs (especially the HFCS delivered via drinks) are really bad for both. Good fats and protein allow you to feel full and energetic at lower caloric intake levels.
Counting calories is a pain in the ass, and as we see in the significant relapse of most dieters to previous weight levels, probably only a short term fix.
Darkmoth
@Blue Raven:
The only complex metabolic issue I was referring to is losing weight. And you lose weight because you burn more calories than you consume. That is the sole mechanism by which you become lighter. If a diet incorporates other mechanics than caloric deficit, it has additional goals than simple weight loss.
That being said, its wrong to underemphasize the importance of comfort, taste, and nutrition, and if a dieting regime really works for you then that’s wonderful. I certainly didn’t mean to offend.
Andrew
As for the hacker’s diet, it’s a pretty straightforward system for counting calories, but it’s overly simplistic. Like any caloric deficit diet, it will work in the near term in almost every case.
However, food quality and macronutrient partitioning are essential components of long term diet success AND health.
Darkmoth
@Andrew:
Ok, I’ll bite: Under what conditions would, say a 400-calorie a day deficit be unsustainable? Say you’re 6′ 1″, 200 lbs, 40 years old. Your expected BMR is 1967 calories if you simply lie in bed all day. What would cause your body to burn less than 400 (or even 1000) calories? Where does it get the energy to keep your blood pumping?
Andrew
Again, in the short term, a 400 calorie deficit is sustainable. However, over longer periods such as a few months, a sustained deficit (absent very particular exercise and nutrient timing such as that done by bodybuilders) will lead to muscle catabolism. This reduces the metabolic rate. So, to continue weight loss at the same rate, you need to further reduce intake. This leads to a spiral of ever decreasing metabolic rate and intake, and will get to a point at which you’re not getting enough calories to maintain healthy body function.
This is why exercise and nutrient quality and timing, beyond calorie counting, are important for maintaining long term health and good body composition.
Jill
@Emma: Amen, sistah. Isn’t it funny how many people here just ASSUME that the thin person they see is by definition healthy and the fatter person isn’t? My BP is usually between 110/70 and 120/80, my cholesterol is fine, my sugar is fine. To the extent that I’m costing other people money it’s because I am over 50 and therefore get things like colonoscopies. My weight is not costing anyone one thin dime. Of course, the obvious conclusion to the “costing others money” issue is that we should all be shot as soon as we turn 50. I wonder if the people who count pennies every time they see a fat person would advocate that as well.
Mnemosyne
I can’t be the only person who wonders why the tagline on those creepy pro-HFCS commercials is that it’s fine “in moderation.” They put that shit in EVERYTHING we eat, so no one who eats any pre-made food at all is getting it “in moderation.” Which then makes me wonder what research they have showing that it’s not so good for people when they don’t get it in moderation.
I have a strong feeling we’re going to be getting a tobacco-company-like revelation relatively soon down the road showing that HFCS may be fine in moderation, but it’s horrible when you’re getting it in every food that you eat.
(And I’m like Yutsano — I can actually taste HFCS and it has a nasty, bitter aftertaste. Soda made with sugar isn’t any healthier, but it definitely tastes better.)
Misplaced Parisian
Gasp, the puppy is adorable. I’m in love. ;)
trollhattan
@69ChrisS
This.
Also, too. ZOMG—kute puppeh!
Also, three. Have you received your MDR of mercury today?
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20090127/mercury-in-high-fructose-corn-syrup
asiangrrlMN
BMI is horseshit. When I was at my thinnest, I had a 24″ waist, and I was passing out from lack of nutrition. Yet, weight-wise, I was about ten pounds away from being overweight. If I went down to the lower end of my BMI, I would be dead. My doctor told me it’s bullshit, but she still pulled out the chart because the insurance companies are pushing the BMI as the sole factor of whether you are healthy or not.
You know, I have suffered from eating disorders all my life. I have been up and I have been down in terms of weight. I have lost hundreds of pounds in my lifetime, and it’s not easy. For people who don’t have food issues, you may not get that there is an emotional component to eating that isn’t easy to break.
I am for having all the information out there. I hate the fact that in the cities, it’s much more convenient to go to a fast-food restaurant, and cheaper. However, I am disturbed by this ‘if you want to be an unhealthy fatty, that’s your problem’ attitude that is so prevalent around this issue.
I also have a problem with the ‘you are an evil person if you smoke’ attitude as well. Why is it that I can go out for drinks once a month, have one drink and three cigarettes, and I will get kidded about being a lightweight when it comes to drinking, but scolded for the cigarettes?
Food is even more difficult because we have to eat. And, no matter how much people want to say it’s simple to lose weight, it really isn’t. Or rather, it can be simple to lose weight, but keeping it off isn’t so easy. And, as others have pointed out, put two people who are exactly the same height and weight on the same diet/exercise plan, and you will get different results.
This is a complex issue. It’s not simple at all.
Oh, and Dweezil is so damn cute.
Darkrose
I’m fat because of my eating habits (especially waiting until I’m absolutely ravenous before I eat), my genetics, and the combination of medication I’m on. Antidepressants, and SSRI’s in particular, are notorious for causing weight gain.
Based on the logic some people here seem to be promoting, I’m costing everyone else money because I suffer from major clinical depressive disorder. So…I should just shoot myself, I guess?
Barbara
Darkmoth, I haven’t tried to diet in a long time, I tend to focus on maintaining and exercising as much as possible, but as I recall, people who drastically reduce their calorie intake for a sustained period induce a starvation response in their body that slows down metabolism in order to conserve body mass. It doesn’t seem to matter that the person has a lot of body mass already. Obviously, this is a survival mechanism for periods of want.
I don’t know exactly what the current thinking is about how to prevent or minimize this state, while still seeing some noticeable weight loss — for instance, going one week on/one week off a diet, or reducing calories significantly but not drastically. Nonetheless, it is one reason why weight loss can be difficult even when someone really is reducing their intake.
chopper
@Andrew:
no, there’s nothing ‘inherently wrong’ with white bread. it’s bread. unless it’s been poisoned, there’s nothing ‘inherently wrong’ with it.
chopper
@Andrew:
either way it’s full of high-horseism.
Darkmoth
@Barbara:
Yes, I have the same understanding, that at some point your body starts conserving energy so you won’t starve. I haven’t had much luck finding specifics of that state, however. Specifically, what level of deficit triggers this effect? How many calories can your body actually conserve? If you need to burn 2000 cals to stay alive, can your body really operate on 1500?
If you’re burning 1500 calories in starvation mode and you eat 1000, shouldn’t you still lose a pound a week?
As you say, it seems like you could alternate on/off weeks. As long as your aggregate intake was less that your aggregate output, you’d still lose weight. That being said, I maintained a 500-calorie deficit for almost 3 months, and my average weight loss was fairly consistent.
Darkmoth
@Andrew:
The specific problem you’re talking about, muscle catabolism, is mainly a problem for bodybuilders and other highly-fit individuals. The problem is, these people already have no body fat left to burn, so any caloric deficit uses your muscles for fuel. Hence muscle catabolism.
That being said, I still don’t understand your objection. If such a fit individual needs to lose weight (for some unknown reason), that weight is going to come from muscle mass. You want catabolism, as that would be your the sole remaining method for weight loss. There is no more fat left to discard.
More realistically, how many overweight Americans are even remotely at risk of muscle catabolism? You could maintain a 500-calorie daily deficit for six months, and you’d only lose 24 pounds. If you have 25+ pounds of fat to lose, and assuming you’re eating normal amounts of protein (hardly a problem in our meat-oriented culture), you’re going to burn the fat. It’s not the duration of the caloric deficit that’s the issue, it’s the fact that trying to lose too much weight is simply unhealthy.
scarshapedstar
Ha, don’t wanna brag, but I did actually win a state ring for swimming. Don’t have any kids yet but I do swim 3 days a week and I know what a 1000-calorie workout feels like (rowing machines are pretty good at this kinda thing nowadays) and a child cannot do it on a daily basis. A teenager, sure. But kids on the swim team are not the ones we’re concerned about here.
Barbara
Darkmoth, I sympathize, although one thing I have found helpful is to write down one’s intake — often one consumes more than one recognizes!
I also noted your difficulty with the dinner hour — BTDT as well. Here are some resources that I found extremely helpful: The Minimalist Cooks at Home — Mark Bittman is just wonderful and focuses on preparing good food that is uncomplicated. Even if it is not “diet” food, studies show that eating food you prepare for yourself almost always results in reduced calorie consumption compared to food prepared elsewhere, and you can modify recipes to make them more healthful (olive oil instead of butter). You can also double or (1-1/2 times) the recipe and have it the next night for leftovers — some dishes are easier to do this with than others, but it’s a great timesaver, just assume that some will be left over and store before you have a chance to eat it, and then add a fresh vegetable and fruit for dessert.
I also have found the magazine “Everyday Food” to be an extremely helpful organizing tool — it even gives you a shopping list, and relies mostly on seasonal vegetables.
You need about 6-8 “reliable” dishes for dinner that you can cook in your sleep and that use ingredients that are easy to find (i.e., no exotic vegetables for routine use).
But it’s really hard.
Deye Mofo
Long time reader, first time posting.
I’ve found lots of good information in this thread, but what plainly seems clearest of all is what an emotionally charged issue this can be. Let me fan the flames some myself.
I must very strongly take issue with Anne Laurie’s original post. As anyone who has read FAST FOOD NATION or watched FOOD INC. knows, food has changed more since the creation of the interstate highway system and modern fast food than in the history of humankind beforehand. Big Aggro exists and clearly uses its power and political influence to ensure that it receives government subsidies and lax-if-existent labor / food safety / environmental / anti-trust regulations. Yes, they do create Frankenfoods with little to no oversight, yes, we are becoming increasingly addicted to processed foods and their fats and sugars, yes, they are overwhelming in availability and affordability, yes, they are hookin’ ’em while they’re young.
According to the self-proclaimed 3XL Person of Size, I’m now in the exact same category as radical right-wingers with their welfare conspiracy theories and paranoid 9/11 “Truthers.” Yet, in the same breath, I’m accused of being the one with a “Unifying Narrative.” Not to be demeaning, but I do not think that I am the one, in this case, who is rejecting inconvenient information based on my beliefs.
Not to go all Ronald Reagan and rely on anecdotal evidence as fact, but I live with an obese roommate who insists that her weight has to do with anything but how she eats. Let’s just say that her perceptions and my observations of her dietary behavior are drastically different.
I also remember one of those “World’s Largest People” shows in which a 680 pound man, down from 1100+ lbs due to medical intervention, standing in his kitchen littered with pizza boxes and soda cans and junk food wrappers, screaming at his wife and the camera crew about “genetics” causing his obesity and insisting that he ate “normal” like anyone else.
Overweight people face a lot of unfair scorn and abuse in our society. I get that. It’s wrong. There are different metabolic rates and genetic disadvantages in play and it’s wrong to treat every single person with any weight problem like it’s automatically a purely individual failure of will and responsibility no matter what.
It’s just as wrong, though, to willfully ignore the societal problems and health risks of obesity and pretend that gaining control of one’s weight is some unknowable magic because there is no science on the subject.
In the interest of full disclosure, I, myself, am currently about thirty pounds overweight. I eat out of boredom and stress, don’t get enough exercise, work too much to feel like I have opportunities to hit the gym or prepare proper meals consistently, and have constant access to carb-heavy foods and soda. I take responsibility for myself, but recognize the marathon of willpower and dedication it takes in some situations to achieve notable positive change.