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You are here: Home / Politics / How Thune is now?

How Thune is now?

by DougJ|  September 25, 20103:27 pm| 123 Comments

This post is in: Politics

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I don’t know how seriously to take the Intrade markets for presidential nominations, but it’s interesting that John Thune is now in second-place, 4 points ahead of Sarah Palin in “ask” (they’re virtually tied in “bid”), in the Republican 2012 nominee market. Thune is up a bit recently, while the others are mostly flat, and this is probably related to the big Weekly Standard piece that just came out. Larison finds an interesting nugget in the piece:

He got a late start in his 2004 race against Daschle, and it worked. And Thune points to Fred Thompson as someone who delayed his entry in 2008 but was nonetheless competitive. “Fred had an opportunity there and he waited until considerably later in the game.”

It’s striking to me that of the two three top contenders for the Republican presidential nomination, one is being compared to Warren Beatty and Donald Trump, while the other is modeling his candidacy after Fred Thompson. The line between celebrity and politician is blurred in a way I’ve never seen before.

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123Comments

  1. 1.

    Loneoak

    September 25, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    It’s also striking that the leading contenders are comparing themselves to bids that were complete FAILs.

  2. 2.

    MikeJ

    September 25, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    He’s the son and heir with a stupid that is criminally vulgar
    He’s the son and heir of nothing in particular

  3. 3.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Electoral Politics is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one might be the next Ronnie Raygun. Ouji board politics where lightning just might strike the same place twice for the wingnuts, who turn their lonely eyes to Hollywood. Well, conservative Hollywood, the other part is pure commie.

    But where better to look for a capitalist hero battling the dark forces of the collective and wanton masturbation

  4. 4.

    R-Jud

    September 25, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Nice title. Whenever I think about the Republican presidential field, I also feel like listening to the Smiths.

  5. 5.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    September 25, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    @Loneoak:

    Yes, that too.

  6. 6.

    Andy K

    September 25, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Tweety sez: I think I smell some Hai Karate. I do, I do smell some Hai Karate!

  7. 7.

    Ross Hershberger

    September 25, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Please please please let me get what I want.

  8. 8.

    KG

    September 25, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    The presidential campaign is way too long. And the last few contests have shown that New Hampshire and Iowa aren’t as important as they use to be. Clinton didn’t win either in ’92 but still won the nomination. GWB lost NH in 2000. McCain basically skipped Iowa in 2008. Obama won Iowa but lost New Hampshire.

    The flip side is, if you start late, it’s harder to do fund raising (the big donors tend to line up behind favored candidates early) and it’s hard to build staff (the campaign pros want their jobs early).

  9. 9.

    mai naem

    September 25, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Oh, no you didn’t. You went and called Sarah Palin and John Thune celebrities. Only Barrack Hussein Obama is a celebrity. Also too, he’s an Arab Muslim Kenyan by birth.

  10. 10.

    SP

    September 25, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Thune thinks Fred Thompson was competitive in 2008? I don’t think we need someone on that much acid anywhere near the WH.

  11. 11.

    cleek

    September 25, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    it’s pretty much a given that any GOP attack (“celebrity!”) for year X is an attack they’ll open themselves up to in year X + 2. but by that time, the attack will be ineffective because the media will have become bored with it.

  12. 12.

    Linda Featheringill

    September 25, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    All three of these “mentors” limited most of their campaigning to national media. But the votes reside with individuals in specific localities.

    Fred did make a stab at local campaigning, IIRC, but was a failure at that.

    Hitch your wagon to a star . . . .

  13. 13.

    Boudica

    September 25, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    @General Stuck: Yes!! Kelsey Grammer for President!!!

  14. 14.

    Dennis SGMM

    September 25, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    A GOP trial balloon that just might fly. Thune fits the mold; anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, anti flag burning and there’s the irresistible-to-teabaggers amendment that he added to a troop support bill that would have mandated state-to-state reciprocity for concealed carry permits. He’s also a die-hard supporter (As long as it’s anyone but him doing the dying) of the war in Iraq. Put those together with the fact that he’s a god botherer and I can see how the GOP would embrace him its chins.

  15. 15.

    ruemara

    September 25, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    So…you base your campaign on one that was only a dismal failure because Rudy Guiliani was an absolute horrible failure. There’s decision making I want with a finger on the button.

  16. 16.

    Nick

    September 25, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    @KG:

    The presidential campaign is way too long.

    I support six years, one term.

  17. 17.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    September 25, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Does that make Thompson The Boy With a Thune in his side?

    Maybe not. (But you never know.)

    while the other is modeling his candidacy after Fred Thompson.

    Let’s see. Thune is 49, so he’ll have to find a wife who is 24 years old, STAT.

  18. 18.

    JGabriel

    September 25, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Error. FYWP.

  19. 19.

    sven

    September 25, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    …and Bristol Palin is on Dancing with the Stars.

    I still can’t wrap my head around this. A serious (gag) contender for the presidency has a daughter featured on a reality tv show. I’m just not sure the line even exists any more.

  20. 20.

    JGabriel

    September 25, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Slightly OT – still about the elections, though. AP has an article on health care that shows how bad they’ve gotten. On it’s face, it makes a good point: Repeal? Many Wish Health Reform Went Further.

    But the Some Say Earth Is Round, Others Say Earth Flat And Moon Made Of Cheese attitude is strong in this one:

    Brian Braley, 49, a tech industry worker from Mesa, Ariz., wants Washington to keep its hands off. “I think it’s a Trojan horse,” Braley said of the health care law. “It’s a communist, sociaIist scheme. All the other countries that have tried this, they’re billions in debt, and they admit this doesn’t work.”

    First, “billions”? I wish we were billions in debt, instead ten trillion. “Billions” = about a 0.1% of our debt. So, “billions in debt” is a good thing compared to our trillions.

    Second, no one I’ve ever met who has experience with “socialized” single-payer, universal, or nationalized health would trade it for the US system. No. One. There are dozens, probably hundreds, of polls that could have been referenced to refute this.

    AP corrects neither of these easily disproved errors, but simply lets them slide without comment in story that thematically amounts to: Round-Earthers May Pose Issues For Republicans Courting Heartland.

    .

  21. 21.

    sven

    September 25, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    @kommrade reproductive vigor: Does his current wife have cancer? No? Then I’m not sure if he can get a divorce…

    Actually I think we need a flow chart!

  22. 22.

    AlanDean

    September 25, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Fred Thompson was one of the most lackadaisical candidates. Someone parodied him by making up one of his speeches– “I’d like to be your President, sort of. On a scale of one to ten I think my enthusiasm is a six, kinda”. That is not an exact quote but the gist is there. Mimicking his campaign? WTF? Sign of desperation. Like latching on the Colbert’s “endorsement” of the Rethug’s new “Contract on America”.

    Sp– you got it right, Acid. His constant claiming that in the Scooter Libby affair there was no underlying crime, well, lying to the FBI is a crime, what ever else has gone on.

    Nick– I’m leaning that way with a onetime six year term. I was hoping Obama might not worry about a second term and really get in there and kick the ass that needs to be kicked. But alas.

  23. 23.

    nevsky42

    September 25, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    w’ghwscg n.,wso’.>

    Oh, sorry! Sorry! I was about to comment but the post mentioned “Fred Thompson” and I dozed off on the keyboard…

  24. 24.

    Steve

    September 25, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    @Dennis SGMM: There are a million generic Republicans who fit the mold at this point, with all the apostates having been drummed out of the party. South Dakota may be next to Iowa, but Thune is basically unknown, and the awesome achievement of knocking off Tom Daschle probably seems less and less relevant as the years go by. He strikes me as the kind of guy who could aspire to be everyone’s second or third choice, but that’s about it.

  25. 25.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    September 25, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Someone parodied him by making up one of his speeches

    Are you sure that was a parody?

  26. 26.

    Citizen_X

    September 25, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    @JGabriel:

    I wish we were billions in debt, instead ten trillion.

    Well, you know what the new idiot Quayle, Ben, says: “Numbers can be boring.”

    He says that in the course of overestimating the amount of yearly government expenditure by about, oh, 400%.

  27. 27.

    Bob Loblaw

    September 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    So even though we’ve gone through JFK’s tan, Reagan’s brainless B-movies and easily digestible moral narratives, Clinton’s lip chewing, teary eyed sermons, Bush’s codpiece, and Obama’s…well, pretty much everything Obama did in the years 2007 and 2008, you’re just now coming to the conclusion that our politics may be overly celebritized and manufactured?

    Interesting.

  28. 28.

    Anoniminous

    September 25, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    If I was going to put my money anywhere this far out I’d go for Huckabee:

    1. He’s intellectually dead

    2. He’s a southern bullshit artist & that always plays well to the cognitively challenged GOP primary voters

    3. He graduated from some 4th rate hick religous “university” (sic) so he can talk about studying the Bible in the original language (King James’ English)

    4. He’s flying a below-the-radar PR campaign; example, he had a book out for the last fall talking about his down-home country childhood memories of happy-happy White – no darkies need
    apply – Christmases (see item 2, above)

    5. He’s been going around the country getting face-time with local voters

    Countering these are the facts

    1. He had the gall to raise taxes when he was governor of Arkansas so the No Tax faction of the GOP hates his guts.

    2. He’s only in his mid-50s and may decide to sit this one out and wait for 2016

  29. 29.

    chicago dyke

    September 25, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    like never before? dood, i assume you’ve been paying attention. speeches, winks and media appearances are what “qualify” our politicians these days. policy? substance? performance? a voting record? not so much.

    two things should’ve tipped you off a while ago. 1) a guy makes a speech at a convention and is instantly vaulted to “leading light of his party” status. 2) a quitter quits the one of the easiest jobs in politics for no good reason (or rather, her state is corrupt enough she could’ve overcome the ones facing her easily) and yet she is considered the #2 or #1 contender for her party’s presidential choice.

    celebrity *is* politics in america today. sorry if that’s shocking, but it’s nothing terribly new. ignorant asses like Beck have influence exactly because of this fact, not despite it. Villagers are most afraid of losing their celebrity, not being show to be traitors to their party’s values or incompetent on the job. only Little People care about that nonsense.

  30. 30.

    KG

    September 25, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    @Nick: I’ve got no problem with the length of a president’s term (though I am quite skeptical now of term limits in any branch of government). My concern is with the actual campaign for office. The next presidential election is in 2012. The GOP campaigns are basically going to start sometime around January (if they haven’t already). A two year campaign is just stupid, stupid, stupid.

  31. 31.

    KG

    September 25, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    @Anoniminous: another point against is the fact that he’s got his own show on Fox News. That’d be hard to give up.

    Holy shit, Arkansas vs Alabama is turning into a helluva game! Back to back interceptions in opposite end zones

  32. 32.

    Mark S.

    September 25, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    @JGabriel:

    I’m going to guess Mr. Braley’s experience of the world outside of the US is the Epcot Center food court.

  33. 33.

    Athenae

    September 25, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Aside from celebrity, another theme is OLD AS HELL. I’m not saying age should disqualify you, hell, far as I’m concerned the Dems should run Jimmy Carter again, but if you’re trying to appeal to a younger, more diverse electorate, somebody who could play their grandpa in the biopic might not be the best choice.

    A.

  34. 34.

    JPL

    September 25, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    OT.. Doug, You might consider another college football open thread. The Arkansas/Alabama game is a little tense.

  35. 35.

    Violet

    September 25, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Does Thune own a ranch? That’s usually the deciding factor for winning the nomination. Get some photos of him clearing brush and he’s all but got it locked up.

    If Romney doesn’t own a ranch he’s got to be out there looking for one.

  36. 36.

    AlanDean

    September 25, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    @kommrade reproductive vigor: It sure is getting hard to distinguish between reality and parody. The right is so far out there that parody has a hard time out doing the real thing.
    To answer your question– I think it was parody… I remember it as parody. Was it SNL? I remember Tom Snyder saying that even he thinks about himself through the excellent parody of him by Dan Aykroyd.

  37. 37.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    @JGabriel:

    Second, no one I’ve ever met who has experience with “socialized” single-payer, universal, or nationalized health would trade it for the US system. No. One.

    There was an article during the HCR debate, documenting that the “American system” is a term of derision in other industrialized countries. I can’t remember if it was the UK or in Canada, but when a leftish MP accuased a conservative of wanting to “Americanize” their health care system, the conservative was personally insulted and said that was hitting below the belt.

  38. 38.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    @Violet: That is so cool an idea. I think he should round up his family pile them in the SUV, strap the pooch to the roof and head out for an adventure. Kind of like Romney’s Ranch Hunt Vacation. Put it on wingnut teevee like Nicole and Paris at the farm a few years back. Find someplace rugged and many where he, the wifey, and his kids can hang their hats and special Mormon underwear.

    We could get real time cable punditry from renowned physicist’sss.

    Physicist Dr. W.J. Llope, a senior faculty fellow at Rice University in the department of physics and astronomy, has his theory about the Romney’s decision to strap Seamus to the top of the car.

    “Seeing the inside of the car is full, Romney absentmindedly says to himself, ‘Where am I going to put ole Seamus here?’ and hearing his name, the dog says, ‘Roof, roof,'” said Llope.

    Roof! Roof!

    And maybe if Mike Huckabee’s kid is free, he could go with them.

    Huckabee Squashed Charges Against His Son For Stoning, Hanging Dog

    Well, maybe not.

    But Sarah could go along and square away any varmint problem the new ranchers might encounter.

    They all could spend their evenings in harmony with nature and gawd, and Mike Huckabee could stir up some popped squirrel whilst gathering of happy wingnuts watch Red Dawn on the big screen teevee.

  39. 39.

    Davis X. Machina

    September 25, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    They toyed with Bush. They experimented with Romney…but this is the real deal.

    Empty Suit III — The Revenge of the Regulars

    The first 100% manufactured candidate, made entirely from textured vegetable protein and old Heritage Institute studies.
    There is, you will remember, no explicit requirement in the Constitution that a candidate actually be human.

  40. 40.

    cleek

    September 25, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    And there, finally, a short distance south of the intersection, was a long strip of pavement in the middle of a field that was itself in the middle of fields that stretched for miles to the south, the east, and the west. Although formally named the Murdo Municipal Airport, it is not an airport as most people understand the term. It’s more like a long driveway from nowhere to nowhere. The airstrip is used an average of 38 times each month. Pilots are warned to watch for wildlife on the runway.

    A punctured bicycle
    On a hillside desolate
    Will nature make a man of me yet ?

    Thune stays in touch with “Coach App,” who was waiting in his brand new Ford F-150 to pick Thune up when our plane arrived. After a firm handshake, Thune told the coach, now retired, about our conversation.

    When in this charming car
    This charming man

    Fehrman, who works at Integreon, a high-tech consulting firm in Arlington, says he’s the black sheep of his office because he’s an active Republican. When he told his officemates he was coming to the Thune event, it was clear that none of the women had ever heard of the senator. “So I showed the pictures of Thune,” he says, laughing. “And they all said—‘I’d vote for him!’”

    It’s gruesome that someone so handsome should care.

    “I think he’s the complete package and is the kind of person who could conceivably go the distance in a race for the presidency,” says Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell. “I think he’s an extraordinary talent, and I hope that he will run and win.”

    A jumped up pantry boy
    Who never knew his place
    He knows so much about these things
    He knows so much about these things

  41. 41.

    Ash Can

    September 25, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    All the GOP leadership wants is a pretty face to attract attention, and an empty head that they can fill with their agenda. Voila — presidential candidate. There are two complications going into 2012, however. The first is the one that always needs to be dealt with, which is the primary system. If the GOP voters split along faction lines like they did in 2008, it may be difficult to predict which candidate ends up defaulting into the nomination. The second complication is the fact that the GOP leadership has split into factions as well. Who really is in the driver’s seat at this point? There may be as much politicking and jockeying going on behind the scenes as in public among the candidates. I honestly don’t know how it will all shake out, and I think it’ll be interesting to see what happens.

  42. 42.

    Napoleon

    September 25, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    The first 100% manufactured candidate,

    Sorry, but Dubya really was the first 100% manufactured candidate. He was obviously and manifestly not qualified for the job. This story from a few months before the 2000 election pretty much lays it all out.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2000/10/bush200010

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    @cleek: “So I showed the pictures of Thune,” he says, laughing. “And they all said—‘I’d vote for him!’”
    I can imagine the conversation between those women the next day
    – Did Dave show you pictures of his mancrush?
    – Yeah, it was kinda creepy. He kept trying to get me to say that dorky looking Senator was ‘hot’. It was weird.

  44. 44.

    JGabriel

    September 25, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    There was an article during the HCR debate, documenting that the “American system” is a term of derision in other industrialized countries.

    I had a friend who moved to Guadalajara in the early ’90s. It was supposed to be temporary, but she wrote a few months later to say she was staying – because, as a professional musician, her uninsured ass loved their socialized health care.

    I wonder how long before we see clips of Mexican (and Canadian) TV pundits complaining about all these unemployed US immigrants who come in and burden their health and welfare programs.

    .

  45. 45.

    Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

    September 25, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    @R-Jud: Here you go: http://youtu.be/_U5HpeA_WSo

  46. 46.

    Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

    September 25, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    @SP: Well, he was competitive compared to Mr. 9/11.

  47. 47.

    Davis X. Machina

    September 25, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    @Napoleon: Bush’s problems — the coke-jaw, the laziness, the chip on his shoulder — were all there before his handlers went to work. And Ivins and others had seen it, before they could get to it. Thune is from Nowhere.

    Thune is the tabula rasa of which heretofore they could only dream.

    Mark Hanna
    meets Max Headroom.

  48. 48.

    Martin

    September 25, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    The line between celebrity and politician is blurred in a way I’ve never seen before.

    Wut?

    The Republicans, for all their demonization of ‘Hollywood liberal elites’ LUUUUUUVE celebrities. Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Thompson. They love celebrities because they don’t care about governance – they care about selling the message, and who’s better than that other than a celebrity? That’s why Sarah is still in the game – she can sell the message. That’s why they hate Obama so much – Obama can sell the message too.

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    I’m not sure how in-trade works, but Thune has slipped back behind Palin.

    I hate to jinx anything with overconfidence, but to my liberal elitist eyes, that’s one weak-ass field of candidates. My money’s still on Pawlenty-Jindal

  50. 50.

    MikeJ

    September 25, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    but when a leftish MP accuased a conservative of wanting to “Americanize” their health care system, the conservative was personally insulted and said that was hitting below the belt.

    David Cameron (now PM) said:

    “It is a reminder – if one were needed – of how proud we in Britain are of the NHS.
    __
    “One of the wonderful things about living in this country is that the moment you’re injured or fall ill – no matter who you are, where you are from, or how much money you’ve got – you know that the NHS will look after you.”

    and
    “That’s why we are committed to the NHS and the principle of a healthcare system that is free at the point of use, based on need and not the ability to pay.”
    and he called the tories “the party of the NHS.”

  51. 51.

    jeffreyw

    September 25, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    Homer sez Thune sux. He could be persuaded to endorse, though, if the tuna was right.

  52. 52.

    JGabriel

    September 25, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    @Napoleon:

    Sorry, but Dubya really was the first 100% manufactured candidate. He was obviously and manifestly not qualified for the job.

    You’re forgetting Reagan. If you don’t think Reagan was a manufactured candidate manifestly unqualified for his job, that just shows how thorough the continuing manufacturing and refining process is.

    And Reagan wasn’t the first either: think Warren Harding or James Buchanan.

    .

  53. 53.

    Mike in NC

    September 25, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Thune points to Fred Thompson as someone who delayed his entry in 2008 but was nonetheless competitive.

    Fred had/has a slightly better chance of getting elected dogcatcher in some one-stoplight town in the Mississippi Delta than ever getting to the White House. Not that being dumb, lazy, and mean has ever been a hindrance to running for political office.

  54. 54.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    could someone release my comment from moderation. thanx

  55. 55.

    Cliff

    September 25, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    I don’t know how seriously to take the Intrade markets

    Ooo! ooo! a trading question… I’ll take it!

    Don’t take it seriously at all, its a game of statisticians and market psychologists VS chumps.

    Just don’t be a chump guys, its that easy.

  56. 56.

    JGabriel

    September 25, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Davis X. Machina:

    There is, you will remember, no explicit requirement in the Constitution that a candidate actually be human.

    Since there are no non-human citizens (yet), the phrase natural born citizen can be read as an implied requirement that a presidential candidate be human.

    Unless …

    Wait.

    A corporation is considered a citizen in law. If an artificial intelligence incorporates itself, then it could run for president. It wouldn’t even have to pass the Turing test, just Delaware’s lax incorporation laws.

    We are sooo fucked.

    .

  57. 57.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    A new one from the fywp files. I just linked to a story about a poll concerning repealing the HC law, and the link was to raw story, copied off their site, and when submitted the link went to a 6 month old BJ post on repealing the HCR. bizzarro

  58. 58.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 25, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    So the idea behind Thune is something like Mitt Romney’s looks without any of that pesky “track record” or “accomplishments”? I think we’ve seen this before. This promises to make Edwards ’04 look like a rollicking success.

  59. 59.

    Mike in NC

    September 25, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    @Mark S.:

    I’m going to guess Mr. Braley’s experience of the world outside of the US is the Epcot Center food court.

    Epcot really is how wingnuts view the world at large, as seldom as they might even think about it. The streets are scrubbed by characters in exotic costumes, but they all speak English with cute accents and you pay for everything in "real" money (US dollars, dammit!), and the 'foreign' fare at the food court is some variation on cheeseburgers, hot dogs, and chicken nuggets. It comforts them.

  60. 60.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    Repeal? Most Americans think health reform did not go far enough, poll finds

    wingnut beware

  61. 61.

    chicago dyke

    September 25, 2010 at 6:19 pm

    And Reagan wasn’t the first either: think Warren Harding or James Buchanan.

    i grok the comparison, but i don’t think it’s completely valid. Harding and Buchanan didn’t live in this media age. who here thinks Quitter has the stamina to remain a “legitimate” political choice without Fox News and the mighty right wing wurlitzer? she sure as hell doesn’t like the hard work it takes to be a policy-based politician, while she lurvs being a teleprompted TV personality. “the media” has always shown bias of one form or another. but the creation of the celebrity-politician on the order we see today? completely different and more insidious. in that, i can agree with the spirit of the original post. modern video technology and the effective use of emotion-inducing 24/7 vertically marketed propaganda play a much greater role today, than even as recently as the 1960s.

  62. 62.

    The Republic of Stupidity

    September 25, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    … one is being compared to Warren Beatty and Donald Trump, while the other is modeling his candidacy after Fred Thompson.

    Ned Beatty, Donald Duck, and Fred Flinstone would be more apropos… IMHO…

  63. 63.

    Cat Lady

    September 25, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    I’ve been wondering where Mitch Daniel’s trial balloons are going cuz he should be considered to be a legitimate challenge, but I’ve decided that he’s just unfortunate enough looking. He’s got red state cred, and he luuurrves privatizing public domain shit, but look at the guy. He’s Peyton Manning (cough*loser*cough) meets casper milquetoast. Wingnuts just won’t turn on for him. No lips, bad hair, and too earnest. He’s not crazy enough. Phew.

  64. 64.

    stuckinred

    September 25, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    @Cat Lady: Hi!

  65. 65.

    Cat Lady

    September 25, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    @stuckinred:

    Hi! From this iteration of proxy server ;-\

    This firewall shit’s getting really old.

  66. 66.

    stuckinred

    September 25, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    @Cat Lady: I unplugged my modem for a day and it went back to working.

  67. 67.

    Violet

    September 25, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    @Cat Lady:
    What’s the problem with the firewall? Is that something on your end or something on Balloon-Juice’s end?

  68. 68.

    stuckinred

    September 25, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    @Violet: I couldn’t connect for almost 2 weeks from my own wireless but when I hijacked a connection from a neighbor it worked.

  69. 69.

    KG

    September 25, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    @JGabriel: no, a corporation is considered a person at law, not a citizen.

  70. 70.

    Violet

    September 25, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    @stuckinred:
    So is it something with your personal internet connection that somehow doesn’t allow you to connect to B-J? Is it a home problem and/or work problem? If work, maybe they blocked B-J?

  71. 71.

    Jinchi

    September 25, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    I don’t know how seriously to take the Intrade markets for presidential nominations

    Take a look at their performance during the last election. Intrade markets simply reflect the conventional wisdom. They aren’t any more predictive than a poll taken 2 years ahead of the election, which is to say, not at all.

  72. 72.

    Cat Lady

    September 25, 2010 at 6:50 pm

    @Violet:

    Some of us still can’t access the site since the malware attack – I can’t from home without using a proxy server which won’t interface with WordPress (FYWP!). Comcast is teh SUXXOR! I’m cycling through the various free proxy server options since they eventually stop working. Why? Who knows? Commenter suzanne can only access through her iphone, only. Why? Who knows?

  73. 73.

    KG

    September 25, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    @JGabriel: Reagan was a two term governor of a large state with a large state government (as opposed to Texas which is a large state with a small state government). He was also a union president for a decade or so. How is that being unqualified for the office of president?

    You can disagree with someone’s policies without resorting to the argument that they are somehow unqualified for office.

  74. 74.

    stuckinred

    September 25, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    @Violet: In my case it was my modem. Something about unplugging it for an extended period solved it. Several folks have been having connectivity issues with BJ.

  75. 75.

    Teduardo

    September 25, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    I must day DougJ is on a tear with his blog titles (see his last three). How Thune is Now takes the cake. AWESOMENESS!

  76. 76.

    Violet

    September 25, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    @Cat Lady:
    Have you checked with your Comcast to see if they’ve blocked B-J due to the malware attack? If so, maybe they could put it back on an approved list? That really stinks. Have you tried the extended-modem-unplugging?

    @stuckinred:
    I remember the malware attack and when you guys were having the connectivity problems. I think I was one of the ones who suggested unplugging your modem at least overnight, maybe longer. Glad to know that worked for you. That worked for me onetime with some wonky internet stuff, so I always give it a try.

  77. 77.

    eemom

    September 25, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    is anyone here old enough to remember a time when the republican nominee for president was even remotely qualified and/or sane enough for the job? I guess it would have been Eisenhower, though I suppose you could make an argument for Poppy Bush.

    That reminds me: Bob “V*i*g*a” Dole has emerged from the formaldehyde to endorse Miss Chastity. Now there’s a hoot.

  78. 78.

    cleter

    September 25, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    GOP nominees are
    1. somebody who ran before and did ok, and now it’s their turn
    and/or
    2. a former VP nominee.
    You can only buck this seniority system if you lead a successful invasion of Europe, or your dad is President. Given those criteria, that leaves you with Palin, Romney, and Huckabee. Thune could be the 2012 nominee, but I wouldn’t bet on him this time.

  79. 79.

    stuckinred

    September 25, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    @Violet: I thought it was you and thanks!

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    @eemom:

    Nixon was qualified, but I think he failed the sanity requirement.

  81. 81.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    September 25, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Thune has slipped back behind Palin

    Kinky. What?

    Never mind.

    Maybe he’ll have a change of heart and model his campaign after McPOW. Then we’ll have the delightful spectacle of watching the PUMAs get all hot n’ bothered over Vice Presidential candidate Christine O’Donnell.

  82. 82.

    Southern Beale

    September 25, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    I’m sorry but the idea that Fred Thompson was “competitive” is a wingnut fantasy. Thompson was NEVER competitive, he didn’t win any primaries and was never able to raise any money. He lacked key endorsements because he waited too long and I don’t believe he ever polled higher than 3rd.

  83. 83.

    Napoleon

    September 25, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    @eemom:

    Ford. Nixon was qualified the sane thing though, don’t know.

  84. 84.

    El Cid

    September 25, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    @Southern Beale: But — he DROVE A TRUCK!

  85. 85.

    Ken Lovell

    September 25, 2010 at 7:18 pm

    The line between celebrity and politician is blurred in a way I’ve never seen before.

    Not only that, but the extent to which conservative pundits interpret reality by reference to movies and books has gone from comical to downright creepy.

  86. 86.

    Napoleon

    September 25, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    eemom, Dole also now that I think of it. If he had won I would have not been waking up with cold sweats every night for 4/8 years. I think he never would have started the Iraq war.

  87. 87.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    OT: I love digby, I really do, but I do not understand how Petraeus being relieved of his command of CENTCOM and sent back to Afghanistan can be characterized as moving him into a position of greater power where Obama can’t touch him. Very confused right now.

  88. 88.

    Mark S.

    September 25, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    @eemom:

    Bob Dole seems like Henry Clay compared to the congressional leaders the GOP has had for the last 15 years.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    @Southern Beale: Didn’t Mary Matalin and Liz Cheney go to work for Uncle Sleepy? Thompson must be a soulless, bloodthirsty fuck if he got the Chtulu family seal of approval.

    That’s kinda sad about Bob Dole. I wonder how firm a grasp he has these days.

  90. 90.

    Southern Beale

    September 25, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Didn’t Mary Matalin and Liz Cheney go to work for Uncle Sleepy?

    Don’t know about Cheney but yes to Matalin. Didn’t do him any good.

    Here in Nashville I still see “Fred 08” bumper stickers. IIRC (good lord but it feels like 10 years ago, not 2) he dropped out of the race before the Tennessee primary. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth by conservatives here.

    Does Fred still have a radio show? Saw he’s in a movie coming out soon. I’m so OVER him.

  91. 91.

    Yutsano

    September 25, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Both she and Sully are overanalyzing. Or choosing to see what they want to see through their own filters to advance their own causes. It has been documented that McChrystal and Obama butted heads, and McChrystal got canned. Obama made his point: I am the boss here dudes. How accurate Woodward’s reporting is is difficult to check at this point, but I have a feeling he didn’t interview any of the persons in question.

  92. 92.

    eemom

    September 25, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Yeah, I forgot about Ford. He seemed to be a decent person. Perhaps the Last Decent Republican.

    Napoleon — interesting point you make there about Dole, because he would of course have likely been re-elected in 2000 and you’re right, we never would have started down the hellhole we’re in now.

    An interesting “what if.” Someone should pose that to Somerby and watch his head explode.

  93. 93.

    Cat Lady

    September 25, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    @kommrade reproductive vigor:

    VP = Scott Brown. Mark my words.

  94. 94.

    General Stuck

    September 25, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s a slow weekend and anything to get the prog poutrage engine going. As Mchrystal found out, civilians are still the ultimate commanders and this is deeply ingrained in the military general officer pool. Obama has already laid down the marker of withdraw, or start withdrawing next June, as a sort of compromise with the mil brass, who doesn’t want to withdraw that soon. they can bluster all they want in private, with or without Obama present, but they do not dare intimate in public they will not follow a direct order from the CiC. That is heresy of the code of the first order, and would not be tolerated. The only way it would be harder for Obama to personally deal with Petraeous as Afghan commander versus Centcom comm, is proximity, as Centcom command is down in FL, and Afghan is not. But with modern coms that doesn’t really mean much.

  95. 95.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2010 at 7:33 pm

    @Yutsano: I don’t see a whole lot of substance in Digby’s post, Sullivan’s or the one Sullivan quoted to start it all. Generals are political animals, I don’t think that’s news, and some people think Petraeus may run for President. Okay. I really don’t think “The Man Who Thought Up The Surge” is gonna win many votes outside of a Washington Post op-ed meeting.

  96. 96.

    Yutsano

    September 25, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He will, but he’s not the Republicans’ next great savior either. For one thing, it has never been established just what his political leanings actually are. He’s very smart, well-read, a student of history, and above all a soldier. He is also a general, and the fact is you don’t get stars without crushing a few eggs along your path. All generals are, to one extent or another, political animals, to reinforce your point. One other point of note: he despised both Bush and Rummy.

  97. 97.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Digby is the Obama skeptic I trust most because she’s never pretended to be anything other than a skeptic, but that really didn’t make any sense. Demoting Petraeus made him untouchable? Huh?

  98. 98.

    J Frank Parnell

    September 25, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    I just want to know how the Weekly Standard managed to dock a cruise ship in South Dakota.

  99. 99.

    Mark S.

    September 25, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I didn’t get this:

    He [Petraeus] may turn out to be like Colin Powell a retired General with his own army, a thorn in the side of the civilian leadership as long as he wants to be.

    I don’t remember Powell ever being that powerful.

    Where does Petraeus rank as the greatest generals of all time? I’d say he’s second, behind Alexander the Great and ahead of Napoleon and Hannibal.

    Who am I kidding? Of course he’s first. SURGE! SURGE! SURGE!

  100. 100.

    Steve

    September 25, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    @Napoleon: Everyone knows Bob Dole would have been the last person to start a war! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G9AePwl1AE

  101. 101.

    Bill Murray

    September 25, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Thune has some negatives in a national campaign. He couldn’t even beat Tim Johnson in 2002, he worked two years as a lobbyist for the DME railroad. He mostly beat Daschle because Daschle said that would be his last term (and SD people still remembered McGovern’s last term when he was reelected after saying it would be his last term and SD came out the worse), the local media got hoodwinked by bloggers (a conservative law or history professor for one) and the Republicans threw a huge amount of money at the election.

    Except for basketball, Thune is like the photographic negative of Obama

  102. 102.

    mai naem

    September 25, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    I don’t know how Thune would do but one thing I do know is that the Mittster ain’t going nowhere. I was shocked listening to the BBC during the Repub primaries in Iowa when something like 3 of the 4 or 5 people they talked to mentioned how the mormon thing disqualified me. And I hung around some evangelist friends during my college years and the mormon religion was looked upon as a cult and totally unacceptable.
    Haven’t heard a mention of Haley Barbour who I would think would have a pretty decent chance because of his party connections.

  103. 103.

    fasteddie9318

    September 25, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    @Mark S.:

    I don’t remember Powell ever being that powerful.

    The comparison doesn’t make much sense. Powell never commanded an army in theater during a war; he commanded troops in the field as a lower officer in Vietnam and was chairman of the JCS during Iraq War I. He never “had an army” in the sense that Petraeus does.

    Where does Petraeus rank as the greatest generals of all time? I’d say he’s second, behind Alexander the Great and ahead of Napoleon and Hannibal.
    __
    Who am I kidding? Of course he’s first. SURGE! SURGE! SURGE!

    Plutarch wrote that Hannibal considered himself the third greatest general in history behind Alexander and Pyrrhus, but obviously none of them could foresee a guy whose best military tactic was paying his enemies not to fight him. I’m sure when Petraeus leaves Afghanistan the same chaotic mess it was when Alexander left it, the same mess it’s always been, he’ll take his place in the pantheon of greats.

  104. 104.

    Mark S.

    September 25, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    @fasteddie9318:

    Isn’t Pyrrhus where we get Pyrrhic victory from?

    I don’t care one way or the other about Petraeus, but I find it hilarious how the Village slobbers all over him. I think it’s because they all supported the war and he made it seem like we won. Now they can all stroke their chins and say, “Well, it wasn’t executed properly, but we were right to support it after all.”

  105. 105.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    September 25, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    OT: I have to say that we need more millionaires like Ed Buck. I saw him on the Mr. Ed Show and if he is for real then he’s my kind of millionaire. He doesn’t want a tax break, he prefers to pay taxes so we can have good infrastructure. He’s a Republican nightmare, a rich guy who wants the government to invest in maintaining and rebuilding our infrastructure.

    Scary guy!

  106. 106.

    mclaren

    September 25, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    The line between celebrity and politician is blurred in a way I’ve never seen before.

    You must have missed Ronald Reagan and Arnold Scharzenegger.

    All this crap about polls placing this or that pol “ahead” in a presidential race 2 years distance constitutes delusional nonsense. Anyone else recall the polls that purported to predict a 2008 presidential race twixt Giuliani and HIllary Clinton?

  107. 107.

    mclaren

    September 25, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    @mai naem:

    I was shocked listening to the BBC during the Repub primaries in Iowa when something like 3 of the 4 or 5 people they talked to mentioned how the mormon thing disqualified me. And I hung around some evangelist friends during my college years and the mormon religion was looked upon as a cult and totally unacceptable.

    Why shocked? These are fanatical Christian dominionist fundamentalists we’re talking about. To them, Unitarians are suspect. To these kinds of fanatics, Mormonism is equivalent to Scientology. The fundamentalist Christian base of the Republican party would rather vote for Obama than for a Mormon.

    Why doesn’t anyone realize this? When are observers going to wake up and realize that, yes, the base of the Republican party really and truly are foaming-at-the-mouth fanatics. These are people who actually and truly think the dead will rise from Megiddo if Repubs nuke Iran.

    In any case, Mormonism would be seriously dodgy even without the Xian fanatics screaming “Heresy!” — the magic underwear, the baptisms of the dead, the history of polygamy, the claim that American Indians are one of the lost tribes of Israel… That’s seriously nutty insanity, folk. It’s not very far from Xenu placing H-bombs in volcanos 50,000 years ago.

  108. 108.

    Mark S.

    September 25, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    @mclaren:

    I remember seeing a lot of copies of this book in the dollar bin of my local bookstore.

  109. 109.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    September 25, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    @J Frank Parnell:

    Win.

  110. 110.

    cleek

    September 25, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    @mclaren:

    All this crap about polls placing this or that pol “ahead” in a presidential race 2 years distance constitutes delusional nonsense.

    this. a thousand times.

    but, nobody should expect political bloggers to avoid the horserace.

  111. 111.

    Cliff

    September 25, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    zzzzzzzzzzzz

  112. 112.

    Cliff

    September 25, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    @General Stuck:

    I’m not sure I’ve said it lately, so, just in case you missed it, Fuck you asshole.

  113. 113.

    DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.

    September 25, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    @cleek:

    I think Thune is the most likely candidate, to be honest.

  114. 114.

    Cliff

    September 25, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    @Cliff:

    oh, And I don’t even care if the F’u is relevant to the post I commented on, it’s not ..

    just think of it as a general FU k?

    Got it?

  115. 115.

    Stuck in the Funhouse

    September 25, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    @Cliff:

    Never heard of you . But thanks for sharing.

  116. 116.

    Cliff

    September 25, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    @Stuck in the Funhouse:

    welcome.

  117. 117.

    kommrade reproductive vigor

    September 25, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    @Cat Lady: I’m pretty sure he’s already been purged by the Purity Patrol.

  118. 118.

    Mnemosyne

    September 26, 2010 at 12:11 am

    [deleted ’cause wrong thread. Whoops!]

  119. 119.

    vhh

    September 26, 2010 at 12:32 am

    @chicago dyke: Note to Chicago_Dyke: I became a regular reader of the Anchorage Daily News and the Mudflats blog during the reign of Queen Sarah in Seward’s Icebox, and so I can say that there was a VERY good reason for her to resign and become Alaska’s former half term governor. Specifically, the legislative committee (majority Republican) tasked to study Troopergate and associated scandals concluded that while Her Majesty could legally as Governor to sack abruptly and for no reason a state police commissioner whose performance she had previously lauded consistently, it did appear to them that in related matters, she had abused her power. There was a damning pile of emails involving her husband badgering state officials to punish a former brother in law, for example, the stacking of investigative boards, and so on. The report absolutely did not absolve her, it was the sort of report that leads to deeper investigation and possible legal action in a state known for widespread corruption. Queen Sarah abdicated quite simply because she was advised that she was likely to be dragged down if she stayed on as governor. And no one up there seems to miss her, there is a stony silence because they fear retribution, which she has been known for all her life.

  120. 120.

    JGabriel

    September 26, 2010 at 12:44 am

    @KG: Thank you for the correction. I’ll try to keep it in mind for the next time I make a joke using that trope. (Not being snarky either. Jokes are funnier the more accurate they are, all else being equal.)

    .

  121. 121.

    LikeableInMyOwnWay

    September 26, 2010 at 2:40 am

    The line between celebrity and politician is blurred in a way I’ve never seen before.

    Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger. Just to name two.

  122. 122.

    rachel

    September 26, 2010 at 4:49 am

    @Mnemosyne: You can’t fool me; there is no Sanity Clause.

  123. 123.

    Gozer

    September 26, 2010 at 9:18 am

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Mentioning Ahnuld reminds me of that whole recount madness when some of the more wingnutty in the country were thinking that CA gov would boost his profile enough so that he might run for prez one day!

    *chortle*

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