You have to admire Gloria Allred after seeing the one-two she delivered to Meg Whitman. Allred represents Whitman’s undocumented immigrant housekeeper, and when she dropped her first bomb, she held back a crucial piece of evidence, a 2003 letter from the Social Security Administration with a hand-written annotation by Whitman’s husband. It’s the handwriting that’s the killer detail that refutes a nasty insinuation of lying by Whitman:
Responding to a reporter’s question, Whitman said she would be willing to undergo a polygraph test to prove her truthfulness.
She said Diaz Santillan regularly picked up her family’s mail and left it on a counter island in her house, suggesting that the housekeeper might intentionally have withheld the letter from Whitman and her husband.
Whitman does get one thing right:
“I think Latinos are really smart,” Whitman said. “I think they will see this for exactly what it is.”
Also, too: I didn’t know that Allred’s protest against the all-male Beverly Hills Friars Club included a walk by her through the steamroom carrying a ruler and singing “Is That All There Is?”.
Suck It Up!
Latino’s are really smart, huh? ’cause everyone thinks they’re dumb and she needs to remind us that they’re not?
geg6
I know many people (sorry, but I have to say that too many of them are men) hate, hate, hate Gloria. But I have always kinda liked her ability to brazenly poke the patriarchy and their enablers.
She’s a pretty damn good attorney who, mostly, takes cases that help women and other minorities who have been treated abominably. Yes, she loves her some publicity, but she uses it effectively and I just can’t fault her for that.
And this move was just brilliant. Meg Whitman is an idiot. Allred all but said to her during the press conference the other day that she had the evidence to kill any defense Whitman may have had on this, but Meg just barrelled in and fucked herself royally. Love it.
Punchy
If anyone thinks that this abortion of a crisis control will cause any teabaggers to suddenly switch votes, I have a bridge in the Gobi to sell ya.
JPL
@Punchy: I wish someone would do a study comparing those wanting to deport illegals and those who who have illegals working for them. It’s unlikely to arrive at accurate info because as Meg has shown, lying is easy.
dmsilev
The “wise Latina” rides again! Who says Republicans don’t believe in recycling?
dms
Betty Cracker
I’ve never been a fan of Allred, but I like her better after reading about the Friars Club stunt. Like her or not, she’s good at what she does, that’s for sure.
4tehlulz
>I think Latinos are really smart
Are they also clean and articulate, eMeg?
SteveinSC
Why have we lost sight of the fact that she deftly skewered a hypocrite on her own sword? The Sacramento Bee piece was just a fucking hit job.
Kryptik
@4tehlulz:
I’m sure all the Latinos she knows are all well-spoken and a credit to their people.
DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.
@Punchy:
There are more Latinos than ‘baggers in CA anyway. Trust me, this hurts.
Bob
Well, it obvious you did not see Morning Joe. The gang there all agreed, shook their collective head in wonder, at the weak case Allred has. Mika, as usual, had nothing useful to say. She sits there ramrod straight and babbles, while Joe, every-so-often, glances her way with contempt she earns.
Dennis SGMM
FWIW, I was listening to Larry Mantle’s call-in show on NPR yesterday and the topic was this one. No one who lives in California would have been surprised by the number of callers who castigated Jerry Brown for making a diabolical, underhanded, sneak attack on the virtuous Whitman. Whitman is, according to the callers, the real victim here.
I doubt that it will affect the outcome of the election very much at all.
Jim C
And I’m instantly reminded of a typically wise exchange from Network:
Perhaps the Friars weren’t so enlightened as Max Schumacher, but it’s the same line of attack.
IM
The whole thing really reminds me of “Good Wife” or “Boston Law”. Really a nice little trap.
Linda Featheringill
Whitman said, IIRC, that her housekeeper came to her and explained her difficulties and asked for help in getting things straightened out. So Whitman fired her.
Nice lady.
Felonious Wench
@geg6:
She uses her power for good, and if it enriches her as well, I don’t have a problem with that. She fights for feminist, GBLT, and immigrant causes. She pokes at people until they blow, then sticks in the stiletto.
And I love seeing a fabulous grandmother in red suits and pearls who will kick your ass as soon as look at you. Nancy SMASH!
Bill H
Lost in the rhetoric is Whitman’s statement the the maid was thought to be legal because “she filled out a 1099.”
A 1099 form is not something that a prospective employee fills out. She may be thinking of the form I-9, which is a form confirming that the employer has verified eligibility for employment, but that one is filled out and signed by the employer, not by the prospective employee.
Meg Whitman is this high-powered business person, running for governor on the basis of her massive business acumen, and she doesn’t know what forms 1099 and I-9 are? Really?
That sort of goes along with her record of not voting in past elections. She is campaigning for stronger employer verification requirements, but she doesn’t even seem to know what the present requirements are.
arguingwithsignposts
@Bob:
And I consider myself rewarded in my decision never to listen to that fatuous show full of assholery ever again with a lower bp level and generally better mental health as a result.
Frank
Did Allred run out of Tiger Woods babes or something? And that stunt is resentment passing itself off as a passion for equal justice. A crass and annoying person.
arguingwithsignposts
Most of the high-powered celebrity attorneys (and quite a few of the famous civil rights attorneys) seem to be egocentric showpeople to a certain extent. I think it goes with the territory.
Love the guy’s chutzpah, but consider Alan Grayson, for instance. Allred seems no different than her cohort in that respect.
geg6
@Frank:
And whaddaya know.
Love it when my points are proven.
Erik Vanderhoff
@DougJ is the business and economics editor for Balloon Juice.: This. If you lose the Latinos and the moderates, kiss your statewide office goodbye. You can’t win in California without carrying either L.A. or the Bay Area. And Whitman’s constituency isn’t that strong here by the Bay.
ppcli
It’s always a happy moment for the connoisseur of ratfucking when they encounter a case where the rats actually fuck themselves. Well done, Meg.
ppcli
“Did Allred run out of Tiger Woods babes or something? And that stunt is resentment passing itself off as a passion for equal justice. A crass and annoying person.”
Style tip:
Proper epistolary form requires a salutation, such as “sincerely yours:”, or “respectfully submitted:” between “equal justice.” and “A crass and annoying person.”
arguingwithsignposts
@ppcli:
{golf clap}
rikyrah
did you know that Whitman settled a case with another non-White at EBAY?
I simply don’t believe that she didn’t know.
and, considering how she immigrant bashed during the primary, well…
Stillwater
@Frank: And that stunt is resentment passing itself off as a passion for equal justice.
Are the two mutually exclusive?
cyntax
Gotta say, I think Meg’s path to governor’s seat just got a lot harder when she’s alienated 37% of the state’s population. There may be 41% of the population that’s white here, but I doubt she had better than a 60/40 advantage there (and that seems generous).
kindness
While I get despondent when Democrats repeatedly show they don’t know how to lead, I am heartened that Republicans continually show contempt for voters (intelligence) which inevitably elects Democrats.
Thank god Republican Oligarchs are dumber than Democrats. Case in point, the Tea Baggers. Yea they may be able to elect a crazy militia lawyer in Alaska, but their net effect is that Democrats will more than likely keep the Senate.
Will Harry Reid do the right thing and change the rules of the Senate at the beginning of the next session? I hope but Harry does not instill confidence in me. He’d need to shit can holds & filibuster and install a majority vote. I doubt he will. Funny thing though. You know if Republicans win control, it’ll be DeMint who is elected leader and he’ll eliminate holds (from Democrats), filibusters (from Democrats) and institute majority votes (when the majority is Republican). Does Harry realize this? Probably, but he’d still give us something sappy like the proud history of the Senate won’t allow him to do the right thing.
Maybe Harry Reid needs to go. What ever.
D-Chance.
It’s nice to know the state of Collyfoinia is in such excellent shape that THE issue of the election is someone’s hired help.
dianne
I just heard on my favorite radio station, KVMR community radio (near Sacramento) that there is something going on regarding her house. She originally had a 3700 sq. ft home which has grown to 15,000 sq. ft. All un-permitted. Also, they are still paying property taxes at the old rate. Haven’t heard any verification of this, but it would really show ,as Traivis T Hipp said, that the rich are different from you and me.
liberal
Heh.
maya
@D-Chance.:
I think “hired help” is an issue in just about all the states this year, D-Chance.
Felonious Wench
@Frank:
Ain’t she great?
Binzinerator
@dmsilev: tee-hee!
Paul L.
Hell of a Smoking Gun
L.A. Times Fails to Give Readers Proper Context Regarding Letter to Whitman
Binzinerator
Anyone know if such a test is admissable as evidence? IANAL and all that so I don’t really know the particulars.
Also, suppose she had in fact seen the letter in 2003, but now she genuinely has no recollection of doing so, wouldn’t a ‘no’ response register as truthful if asked “Have you ever seen this letter before?”
Or is a polygraph test more nuanced than that?
kindness
@Paul L.: Dude, we here in California are not morons. Yes, our legislature is a bunch of ‘tards (please don’t come after me Bible Spice) but we aren’t so easily led astray.
1) Queen Meg was told in 2003 that her house help wasn’t who she said she was
2) Queen Meg’s husband hand wrote on the letter to have their aide check it out.
3) Queen Meg fires house help just before starting her run for office.
4) Queen Meg brazenly lies about ever having known or having been informed about illegal alien house help.
5) Lawyer produces evidence that Queen Meg is lying, Queen Meg promptly blames a) the lawyer, b) her political opponent, c) the media.
My in-law aunt is a cattle rancher up in the Sierra foothills. They’re moderate Republicans. Yesterday she announced that no one in her family up there is going to vote for Meg. her complaint, she won’t vote for someone who thinks they can buy a government position.
Jerry is gonna win. Small solace that I will take this sad election year.
catclub
I wonder which SSN she wrote the 1099 forms to, after being told that the SSN her maid gave did not match her maid’s
name.
The Dangerman
Watched Fox News’ coverage of this matter (taking one for the team and all). No surprisingly, their focus was on how the Keeper was paid $23/hr and that made everything right.
I have to assume the Keeper wasn’t paid $23/hr; the agency, perhaps, but not the Keeper. But, focusing like a laser on how much money was supposedly involved reveals something about the people that watch Fox.
Binzinerator
@Paul L.:
And when the IRS finds a problem with your tax return it lets you know there is a problem and asks for clarification but makes no statement about your status as a tax cheat.
IOW, the onus is upon you to make it clear you aren’t.
Aren’t you glad when the government wants you to exercise your personal responsibility and do the things for yourself that are best left up to the individual?
mclaren
@kindness:
No, the people who live in California are morons. All of them.
The people who live in California have doubled down on locking up non-violent people in prison for life with their insane three strikes laws in the middle of a statewide fiscal meltdown. Californians are like the population of the Germany who diverted crucial rail transport to continue to shuttle Jews into the death camps even while Germany was losing the war because of inadequate supplies to the front lines.
Californians aren’t just stupid, they’re profoundly stupid. Scary stupid. Epochally stupid. Groundbreakingly world-beatingly stupid. Olympic record stupid.
A former girlfriend who was a nurse once described to me a patient in the intensive care unit who was a motorcyclist. He had crashed his motorcycle into a telephone pole at full speed. The front of his face was caved in so it had become concave, and in the center of his forehead there was a small mark of the public utilities badge with the telephone pole number which you could on the guy’s head. The guy’s eyes were as blank as two ball bearings and he had to be fed intravenously.
That’s the kind of stupid you encounter in California.
kindness
@mclaren: Nice way to generalize.
Why are you reading progressive blogs?
Dennis SGMM
@D-Chance.:
It’s an issue because the Republicans made it an issue back in 1993 with Zoe Baird and “Nannygate.” It’s even more of an issue this year because the Republicans are harping on illegal immigration. Whitman has no record of public service so voters are apt to be interested in anything that might show what kind of person she is.
That said, I feel that those who are predisposed to vote for Whitman will dismiss the matter as dirty tricks by the Brown campaign.
arguingwithsignposts
@mclaren: God, you are an idiot.
For instance, this: “No, the people who live in California are morons. All of them.”
Maybe you haven’t heard of the concept of majority rule in electoral politics? I think the folks at calitics, for instance, are not morons, and at least 47.75 percent of the voters against Prop 8 aren’t morons, either.
The evidence against you, however, grows hard to ignore.
Bullsmith
@mclaren:
That’s an effective little metaphor ya got going there. Makes an impression.
Dennis SGMM
@mclaren:
Speaking as a Californian; fuck you. Not only is your comment gratuitously insulting to those of us who bust our asses to do the right thing it betrays a boundless ego coupled with an intellect whose center is nowhere and whose ignorance is everywhere.
cyntax
So if Californians were better Nazis, you’d be happy?
I look forward to continuing to disappoint you.
cckids
@kindness: Yeah. Harry just can not know the luck he was given in getting Sharron Angle as an opponent. I am a very reliable Dem voter, and, even with HER as the alternative, will have to swallow hard to vote for Harry. If it had been Sue Lowden (who is not NEARLY as crazy as the chicken quotes made her seem). . . no chance at all. Harry is a pushover fail as Senate Leader, and in many ways, not much of a Senator for NV. Yes, he’s done some good. But when the state of NV, meltdown central, with something around 18-20% true unemployment, bleeding population, homes & jobs, ends up close to dead last in stimulus dollars, I have to wonder just how effective he is.
arguingwithsignposts
@cckids:
Maybe you should ask your other senator, Ensign, as well.
Stefan
“I think Latinos are really smart,” Whitman said. “I think they will see this for exactly what it is.”
Question for Meg Whitman: if Latinos are really smart, this implies (since “really” is relative) that there are other ethno-cultural-linguistic groups which are not really smart. Who are they?
If, on the other hand, you’re not willing to name them, and intstead backtrack and claim that there are no stupid ethnicities, then doesn’t calling one particular group “really smart” just represent mindless pandering?
rickstersherpa
One of the things that gets me is how the media plays this when a Democrat like Allred engages in what the Republican/Right has long called “ratf**king” another candidate. They are being bad, very bad. But of course Rove and his merry band he inspires, the O’Keefe’s and Breitbarts of the world are just considered “brilliant” for no matter how many lies they tell. I guess it is because they are “patriots” and “real Americans” who don’t want to raise taxes on the “productive classes” (e.g. the c**ks**ker born with a 4th generation silver spoon in his mouth who owns this newspaer/network/TVstation.)
Binzinerator
Shorter mclaren:
And that’s the kind of stupid you encounter in mclaren.
Stefan
“I think Latinos are really smart,” Whitman said. “I think they will see this for exactly what it is.”
Sure, but what about the Anglos? They’re not that smart — in fact, many of them are actually kind of dim (see Party, Tea). They’re the ones you have to worry about, Meg.
And Another Thing...
@ppcli: WIN.
Steve
@ppcli: Such a good zing! Sadly, though, the “salutation” is the part at the beginning of the letter that goes “Dear so-and-so.” The part at the end that goes “Sincerely yours” is a valediction or complimentary close.
@Paul L.: Let’s set this out in the form of a cross-examination.
Who do you see as the winner of this exchange?
Mark
@Mclaren –
White Californians born before 1960 – the ones who voted for Reagan and voted in Prop 13 and fucked the rest of us – they’re mostly morons. But we already knew that if someone, anyone, was going to destroy this country, it was going to be an elderly white person (and more likely an elderly white man.)
But tarring the rest of us with the same brush? Don’t be so goddamn stupid.
SRW1
Also, too: I didn’t know that Allred’s protest against the all-male Beverly Hills Friars Club included a walk by her through the steamroom carrying a ruler and singing “Is That All There Is?”.
How did she circumvent the Uncertainty principle? You know, the problem that you can’t measure the thing without affecting its properties?
Brachiator
@Dennis SGMM:
I’m not voting for Whitman, but this was a dirty trick, although I do not lay responsibility for it on the Brown campaign. And it was a well played dirty trick.
But the fun thing here is that there is not much of a legal issue at play here, only a political one. So far, Meg Whitman is at most “guilty” of acting liberal while talking conservative.
Since public radio and KPCC’s Air Talk tends to appeal more to progressive listeners, I wonder if someone “encouraged” pro-Whitman people to call up.
By contrast, the conservative John and Ken show got a lot of callers accusing the hosts of kissing Brown’s behind because they were insufficiently supportive of poor Meg, even though these two have been extremely vocal anti-Brown people.
By the way, Meg’s husband has an almost ridiculously comical (think “Gilligan’s Island”) name: Griffith Rutherford Harsh IV. Yes, Meg is really Mrs. Harsh.
cckids
@arguingwithsignposts: Fair point, but everyone here has given up on Ensign. He is our ghost senator, and I wouldn’t bet a penny on his reelection chances. No one expects anything from him–half the time, we don’t remember he’s still around.
I brought up the stimulus because one of Reid’s main points in his “vote for me” campaign is that he has seniority, people listen to him, etc. I’ve never been one to reward any senator (even mine) who was all about the pork he/she brings home, but damn, Harry, did you even get in line??
arguingwithsignposts
@cckids:
understood. I’m sort of curious how all that money got doled out anyway. Who had to ask? I see a lot of GOPers taking credit for stimulus money they voted against, but never really understood the allocation system.
Not to excuse Reid (who’s been very meh, imho), but would be worth some journalistic digging on stimulus funds to figure out how the pork was sliced and diced.
Paul L.
@Steve:
Unmitigated Garbage from FactCheck.org on Obama’s Second Amendment Record
Fact-Checking FactCheck.Org on Obama and Guns
But,But.But,But that is different…
Steve
@Paul L.: Now that’s the sort of non sequitur from Paul L. we’ve come to know and love. When I saw your first post in this thread I thought someone might have stolen your handle because it was actually on-topic.
ed g
Can we put Meg Whitman, Gloria Allred and Nancy Grace in a sack and hope the resultant flamebitchery destroys the lot of them?
Paul L.
@Steve:
non sequitur?
r€nato
@geg6:
meh… It’s certainly clever, but any good attorney (or cop, or federal agent) knows to withhold certain items of evidence in order to test the credibility of a suspect/informant/investigation target.
Meg Whitman really thinks Californians are idiots. Anyone out West who’s ever had to hire a maid or landscaper or nanny, knows that the best rates come from the brown-skinned folk or those who hire lots of them.
At that point, it’s a choice of whether to play it completely on-the-level and ask for proof of citizenship, or engage in plausible deniability by choosing to look the other way. And there are certain low-life scum who know that undocumented migrants are particularly vulnerable… they can choose to underpay them or treat them poorly, and they have little recourse because they fear any sort of involvement with any part of our government could lead to deportation. I would be very surprised if this did not enter into the calculations of Meg and her husband, who are certainly shrewd people.
If you hire a landscaper or yard guy who speaks little to no English, chances are pretty good they are not here legally… but even the people who bitch loudest about ‘the goddamned illegals’ (like my own folks…) will look the other way because they work hard for a low rate.
It seldom occurs to them that they are encouraging the very ‘problem’ they bitch about. They would not be here if there were no jobs for them. This finally occurred to my folks recently, and I just could not help but laugh out loud at them. Yes, at them.
arguingwithsignposts
@Paul L.:
First off, can you quit spamming the thread with patterico links? Secondly, the NRA thread is a couple above this one. If you want to go on your Obama-wants-to-take-ar-gunz tangent, take it there, dude.
trollhattan
Darling Nicky-gate (you’re welcome) matters because Megs has been spending many of her millions on Spanish language ads, recognizing she needs a significant percentage of the Hispanic vote to win. It’s had this effect:
The next poll round should yield very interesting results. Coincidentally, Megs and Jerry are debating today in Fresno, hosted by Univision. Think immigration might come up as a topic?
trollhattan
@Paul L.:
RU really this lame? (caution: rhetorical question requiring no actual answer). What do the president and the NRA have to do with Meg Whitman and the Duke lacrosse team, huh?
Felonious Wench
@mclaren:
We here in Texas take offense at the claim that Californians are more stupid than we are. We worked hard for our current national title.
Stefan
You know, “Whitman’s Burden” would have been a better title for this post….
trollhattan
@Felonious Wench:
FTW. Whitman had the
ballsnerve to cite governor Goodhair in the debate this week.She wants California to be more like Texas.
arguingwithsignposts
@Felonious Wench:
I thought you were still in a hotly contested match with South Carolina?
Felonious Wench
@trollhattan:
We’ll be sending over our pick-up trucks with drill baby drill stickers, Jesus fish emblems, and TruckNutz shortly.
Felonious Wench
@arguingwithsignposts:
Oklahoma, actually.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Sorry, but calling somebody on their behavior is not a dirty trick. Neither is withholding some of the evidence so you can catch them lying with their first lame excuse. The only thing that’s remotely dirty about it is not bringing it up until shortly before the election.
Binzinerator
@Felonious Wench: I dunno, I’m thinking that determination could be done this way: Highlight on a map the states that have the most teatards in them, then do the same for the ones with the most jesus fish emblems. The geographical center of the overlap would pinpoint the epicenter of a white-hot pocket of stupidity.
Which of course may just prove to be in Texas after all.
Comrade Kevin
@mclaren: Which Marxist paradise populated completely with geniuses do you live in?
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
RE: I’m not voting for Whitman, but this was a dirty trick, although I do not lay responsibility for it on the Brown campaign.
Evidence of what, exactly? As I said, there is nothing much here, but the whole thing is designed to peel away voters from Whitman, and to remind Latino voters why they should not vote for her. This is also why Allred arranged press conferences with the Spanish language TV stations to take place immediately after her first revelations of this “hot” news story.
Let’s look at what was accomplished. And note that I also appreciate the sacrificial gambit that was part of this play.
Allred made her initial announcement after the first gubernatorial primary. This expertly deflated any bounce that Whitman may have got from her first face-to-face debate with Jerry Brown.
There is not much here of any real legal consequence, but plenty to let voters create their own set of problems for Whitman. So:
“Whitman hired an illegal immigrant.” Whitman hired her through an agency and the woman presented a Social Security card and a driver’s license. Zoe Baird (and others Democrat and Republican) in the past hired people who did not demonstrate a legal right to be in the US.
“Whitman exploited the maid.” Whitman paid the woman $23 an hour. Maybe billionaires should pay more, but this is not the same as exploitation. And on and on.
But here is the beauty of the Allred play and where the sacrifice comes in.
Barbara Boxer and Carly Fiorina had a debate on Wednesday. Perhaps Boxer’s people felt that Boxer had a sufficient lead in the polls, because once the Whitman Maidgate story broke, nobody ever even mentioned this other debate. Heck, nobody even asked Boxer what she may have thought about this pseudo-scandal.
So, Boxer gave up a little political visibility, even though the election is just weeks away.
But as a bonus, Carly Fiorina’s campaign was also knocked off balance as all California media became obsessed with Allred’s little roadshow. Hell, you wouldn’t even know there was a Senate race to judge by the recent radio and TV coverage.
Peter J
Compare the money that Whitman is shelling out on this election, at least $119 million, with the money it would have taken to actually pay her housekeeper for her work, so that she wouldn’t have decided to go public, or for that matter, not to hire an undocumented immigrant housekeeper in the first place…
ÜberFAIL.
kindness
@Brachiator: What Queen Meg bounce? Did you see the debate? The polls don’t reflect a bounce. Granted, Jerry rambled, but he was coherent and funny at times. Meg, when she wasn’t slandering Jerry was spouting bullshit.
Honestly….I see troll syndrome. I think it’s futile to try to persuade you. You seem energized to go monkeywrentch some hippies. For what it’s worth, this isn’t a commie liberal blog. It’s really kinda reasoned moderation. Of course, I know some folk don’t agree with what the definition of reason is… My best impression? what a douche you seem to be. Go over to firedoglake and try to rile them up. (If I’ve misinterpreted your intentions or message, please forgive me)
Brachiator
@Peter J:
This is the beauty of the lie. Whitman didn’t deliberately hire an illegal immigrant. She hired the woman through an agency, and the agency saw and rubber-stamped the documentation presented.
Whitman paid the woman $23 an hour. And the woman worked for Whitman for 9 years. By both sides’ admission, the woman was fired when she admitted that she was an illegal immigrant. What amount do you think would have been sufficient for “hush money?”
Death Panel Truck
@Brachiator:
Jeez, Brachiator, don’t confuse ’em with facts! It spoils the narrative!
Regarding Californians being stupid: You may not be dumb people, but you elect dumb people to make your laws. As a consequence, your population is leaving the state in droves and pouring into Oregon and Washington. I live in Washington, and I’d really rather y’all just stayed home. You FUBARed your own state; please stop coming up here to fuck up mine. I was born here, and I liked it the way it was.
kindness
@Brachiator: How come you aren’t addressing the 2003 letter that it has already been proven that Whitman (or her husband) received? Queen Meg knew she was an illegal. My guess? It’s because it makes your argument kinda crappy……
Typical Rovian move….ignore direct evidence, pivot to another unrelated issue and blame the other person(s).
Brachiator
@kindness:
Yeah, I watched the debate. Whitman didn’t embarrass herself. Some political pundits were predicting that Brown, the political veteran, would wipe the floor with her. This didn’t happen.
Neither Brown nor Whitman were particularly sharp. Whitman was notably robotic. She never veered from her script and evaded answers to the questions presented.
I noted in another thread that Brown scored with his humor and a degree of humility. He was positively inspiring when he talked about his connection and love for the state.
Persuade me of what? I get so tired of the troll bullshit when people don’t come to a blog to cheer-lead or boo or rattle off the same conventional bullshit. I’ve watched California and national elections for a number of years, was present when the first professionally in-house LA Times polls were done, and have a little knowledge of where some of the political bodies have been buried in California politics.
I don’t give a rat’s ass about hippies or their feelings.
I got out of spending a lot of time discussing politics before the California gubernatorial recall election, when I noticed that some polls were just wrong and a lot of the political analysis was missing the mood of the electorate.
In a nutshell, I kept telling people that it looked like Arnold had a good shot at winning. People responded with why he shouldn’t have a chance, which was an entirely different thing, and a dumb-ass waste of time.
I think that this is one of the better blogs around, because of the general quality of the posting, and the absolute quality of the leaders, John and company.
But I am not interesting in riling people up for just for shits and giggles. On the other hand, I am not interesting in comforting people or pretending that their misreading of the California political scene is meaningful analysis. And this is entirely separate from my personal political view that Meg Whitman would be a disaster for California and represents the last gasp of the California WASP Ascendancy.
And yeah, you absolutely misinterpret my intentions.
trollhattan
@Death Panel Truck:
Not so much.
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopulation&met=population&idim=state:06000&dl=en&hl=en&q=california+population+trends
It’s certainly true a good portion of California’s population is transitory but we’re sure as hell not depopulating. It’s also quite true that most of our job loss has been the construction trades, and those folks are quite used to migrating to where the work is. They’ll be back, I’m just not predicting when.
Brachiator
@kindness:
Again, I care more about the political ramifications of this political theater than whether Whitman knowingly employed an illegal immigrant. Note that I said in one of my first posts here that Whitman is at most guilty of acting like a liberal while talking like a conservative.
Whitman is not withdrawing from the race, nor will she be investigated for anything. So, who would be most upset about her employing an illegal immigrant? Hard core dumb ass anti-immigrant Republicans and some moderate Republicans. As I noted before, this is classic “peel away” strategy.
What is also reinforced is that Whitman is a neophyte politician. I was listening to the John and Ken talk radio show right after Allred had her first news conference. One of them noted that Allred not only hinted that she had some kind of proof from 2003, but that she had some proof from April 22, 2003. The news reporter on the radio station (KFI in Los Angeles) even played an audio clip of Allred specifically mentioning the issue, at the end of the press conference, where some might not notice the significance of what she said. One of the talk show hosts declared (and I agreed) that mentioning a specific date meant that Allred had some tangible proof of her assertions.
But note that Allred didn’t produce the document right away. I love a good political trap. And Whitman walked right into it.
The Whitman camp denied everything and then had Meg appear to talk about it the next morning. Allred immediately popped up in the afternoon and revealed the 2003 letter. This made Whitman look like a fool and led to more scrambling from her political operatives to explain the thing. Whitman further put her foot in her mouth by offering to take a polygraph test. To prove what? And mentioning a polygraph only muddied the waters as to whether or not some criminal or civil offence had been committed.
Now, as to whether or not Whitman knew that her made was an illegal immigrant, I don’t know. The letter doesn’t definitively prove anything. From what I’ve seen, it was addressed to her husband, and he scribbled something like, “Nicky, please look into this” on the document and passed it on to the maid.
And there is not going to be any trial or administrative hearing to prove any of this. Nor, by the way, will the maid be investigated for anything connected with her immigration status. There will also be no legal discovery; both sides can be as sly or as truthful as they want to be. So all we are left with is the court of public opinion, and the countdown to an election.
Also, in the real world (away from microphones or cameras), most people who employ illegal immigrants know that they are doing so, whether or not they hired them directly or through an agency. So, again, this makes Whitman a hypocrite and rocks the world of Republican true believers. Most Democrats don’t care.
By the way, even Allred noted that Whitman’s main failure was the hypocrisy. She is also making noises about going after Whitman for not paying the maid for hours worked and for mileage reimbursements, but that is a side issue as far as any legal or political issue goes.
As an aside, people note the huge amount of money that Whitman has spent on her campaign. A big chunk of this was for Spanish language media. Some savvy political commentators noted that early on, Whitman’s message in the Spanish language media about immigration and related issues differed from her English language pronouncements. And before the debates, Whitman spoke more through her ads than through public appearances broadcast throughout the state.
And so, Allred deftly undermined Whitman’s Spanish language efforts by holding separate news conferences in the Spanish language media.
alicia-logic
@Brachiator:
Wrong. Acting as if there is one rule for others and another for oneself is standard conservative behavior:
– abortions for me (and my kin) but not for thee
– I deserve government services but you’re a lazy mooch
– let me lecture you about old-fashioned ‘Family Values’ while I walk the old Appalachian Trail
Flogging the illegal immigrant issue while simultaneously exploiting illegal immigrants for cheap labor and providing incentive by demanding their services is classic conservative behavior.
Brachiator
@alicia-logic:
Exploiting? Nicky worked for Whitman for 9 years at $23 an hour. I do have to wonder when she started feeling exploited.
In California, anyone who can do so hires illegal immigrants, without regard to political orientation. Whitman was paying what most of these wealthy types pay. The workers and the employers talk amongst themselves, and everyone knows what the standard wage is. And nobody varies too high or too low from the typical range. Still, too many people who employ illegal immigrants underpay them. The only difference between liberals and conservatives in this regard is that liberals pretend to feel guilty.
I don’t support Whitman. Not by a long shot. But you don’t have a clue if you want to start talking about the exploitation of illegal immigrants in California. Or the impact on non-immigrant labor. A while back the LA Times printed an opinion piece (from some kind of minister, no less) advising Westside weasels (you know, the KCRW NPR crowd) not to feel guilty about exploiting their illegals.
Gemina13
@geg6:
Allred’s nickname in L.A. is “The Wicked Witch of the West(side),” and unlike her namesake, she’ll drop a house on her opponents if that’s what it takes to win. I admire her. I met her once in person–I was the assistant to an attorney representing a company being sued by Gloria’s client, and she arrived for the conference. She was prompt, courteous (if a bit cool), and charmed the daylights out of my boss. The case settled, with everybody getting some of what they wanted.
If I were NutMeg, I’d go sit my ass down in my office, hire someone like Tom Mesereau to do my talking for me, and lick my wounds from the beating La Allred just delivered. Oh, yeah, and try to find a way to get a tax exemption out of all that wasted campaign cash.
dave
@Punchy:
Asshole you must really FEAR the TEA PARTY. HA HA HA.
Gota love this country! in less than one year we the people can come together as one united front… THE TEA PARTY
Eat That Liberals!