I don’t get it. Suspending Olbermann because he made campaign donations to progressive politicians in Arizona and Kentucky makes no sense. The policy at MSNBC makes no sense. There is no pretense of objectivity in a show like Count Down. It is an explicitly partisan show. That Olbermann is allowed to push partisan, progressive politics on prime time, but not allowed to donate a paltry $7,200 dollars to some congressional races, strikes me as exorbitantly stupid. What the hell is NBC thinking here?
All that being said, if Olbermann knew the policy going in – what was he thinking? That seems about as dumb as the policy itself. And two dumbs do not make a smart. Or something.
meh
$7,500 from olberman
$1.5M from fox
oh shit bitches, grab ur pearls and get the faintin’ couches – the MSM is gettin a strong case of the vapors…
edit – like the dumb MF’s that watch fox are gonna be like “Oh shit MSNBC really is fair and balanced – I’m watchin that!”
Democrat on Democrat violence FTL
Mouse Tolliver
And according to Crooks and Liars Joe Scarborough and pat Buchanan donated to Republican candidates, but weren’t penalized. This stinks.
Bullsmith
Atrios has a list of some of Pat Buchannan’s donations to Republicans. IOKIYAR lives on at MSNBC.
edit- Joe Scarborough’s probably not the only Morning Joe regular who donates. Although I think we can safely assume not to Democrats.
Nied
Given the well known spat between Olbermann MSNBC head Phil Griffin I wonder if he was trying to get fired.
MattR
@Mouse Tolliver:
From HuffPo
@Mattminus: IMO, it’s just as likely that MSNBC is sick of all the criticsm they receive from the Right over Olbermann.
Mattminus
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that KO is insufferable off camera, and someone in management has just been waiting for an excuse to shitcan him.
jayboat
Hard to fathom the logic on this one.
Don
You can summarize my confusion over this with a single question: would the $7,000 in donations buy a single second of commercial on Olberman’s show?
Seriously, he does this with his voice and MSNBC’s channel every moment he’s on the air. Why does it make any difference when it’s cash? His support via the show is worth infinitely more than he could ever donate financially.
Napoleon
E.D., What is there not to get, Olbermann just joined the list of high ratings entertainers to be suspended or fired for being liberal. Weren’t the Smothers Brothers the number one show on TV when they were cancelled? Wasn’t Donahue number one on MSNBC when he was canned by the same guy who just suspended Keith?
Also as I said in the last thread, here is the by the seat of my pants wild ass theory I have. He knew the rule and he intentionally violated it on the theory that 1) NBC/GE are likely secretly funding part of the rights attack ads so wouldn’t dare fire him or 2) if they fired him he would sue NBC and seek to discover NBC and GE’s secret contributions to the right.
mantis
Will Hannity get suspended by Fox for his contributions? If you could see my face, you’d know I couldn’t type that sentence with it straight.
lamh32
BTW, I love how none of this is being reported on MSNBC!
How’s that for your “liberal” media
morzer
This sounds like MSNBC looking for an excuse. If they wanted to, they could simply say that Olbermann had cleared it with them/free speech/we don’t see any conflict of interest here, given the nature of his show etc.
cleek
lean forward!
Mike E
I’m shocked, SHOCKED to discover that there’s a double standard here…and besides, he’s an asshole so he brought it onto himself…I mean, a smug asshole unlike JoeScar, and..he hurt my feelings! Twice!
Jeff
This has the look of MSNBC going “all Fox– All The Time”.
Bullsmith
This is a perfect example of the double standard that has completely destroyed American politics. KO and Joe Scar are both loud-mouthed walking egos. They are identical media figures, the only difference being one’s a democrat and one’s a republican. Thus only one is allowed to fully participate in democracy, the other one has to stay out of the election or get sent to a free speech zone.
Really, the idea that the sportscaster has to be held to a higher journalistic standard than the ex-congressman is so fucking ludicrous that it is impossible to miss that it’s BS. The real reason KO is suspended is because he gave to democrats. Period.
wengler
@Mattminus
Countdown w/ KO is money in the bank. Remember this is the channel that literally tried to flank FOX on the right with such shows as Alan Keyes Is Making Sense.
It would take a terrible hit on the brand they are trying to create by taking out KO now, especially during November sweeps. I am guessing he will be gone for a week and then be back. What a ridiculous network decision.
Zandar
Olbermann got sent up the river for a reason.
The question is why.
The answer is either to draw attention to the rest of the media doing the same, or to do just the opposite and bury Olbermann.
ornery curmudgeon
@Mattminus:
I’m going out on a limb and guess that Mattminus is a corporate-paid shill trolling the web derailing conversations with inane character assassinations through pointless yet mean-spirited conjecture.
Wow, these limbs are cheap to go out on, huh Matt?
New Yorker
I give up. Can we please just make FOX News the official state media of the US? I want to know how Sarah Palin descended bodily from the heavens onto the peak of Denali. I look forward to learning how Ronald Reagan was born of a virgin on July 4, 1911 and his birth was heralded by a new star in the sky.*
*I’m not just making reference to the birth of Jesus here. These are very similar to the story North Koreans are told about the birth of Kim Jong-Il.
Calouste
I go with the theory that Olbermann did this on purpose.
OT, this by a British-American teenager:
__
kindness
Sue the bastards. Take it to court and let NBC say they don’t allow employees the same rights they have as a corporation.
MikeJ
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say Mattminus is a paedophile.
Scott
Waiting for the right to start demanding the same thing for Maddow in 5, 4, 3, 2…
Quaker in a Basement
New tag!!
Zifnab
Republicans just took the House. That means Olbermann loses his job. Rachael Maddow is next, without a doubt.
Davis X. Machina
Pre-emptive truckling by MSNBC in advance of the congressional investigations.
I blame Jack Donaghy
MattR
@Bullsmith: OK. So does anyone have any actual proof of a double standard? Do you know that Scarborough did not ask for and receive approval before making his donations? For that matter, do we even know that NBC had the same policy when Scarborough and Buchanan made their contributions in 2006? (Note: I refuse to click on Politico, but I have not seen anything that answers these questions in other articles I have read)
I know it is easy to just throw it out in anger but I thought we were supposed to be the reality based community.
(EDIT: @sven: I guess this kinda answers my question)
sven
I thought this was the best part:
Why wasn’t Joe Scarborough suspended?
Joe hosts an opinion program. Keith apparently does not.
Koz
“Hard to fathom the logic on this one. “
This might be an early example of remorse = responsibility.
taylormattd
It’s not hard to figure out Ed. Despite years of lies to the contrary, the ENTIRE media is completely and utterly right wing.
Gravenstone
It’s not as if MSNBC hasn’t addressed “conflict of interest” claims from on air contributors in the past. They briefly kicked Richard Wolffe to the curb over his ties to a public affairs firm, but eventually found a way to “save face” and brought him back into the fold.
Either Olbermann is back in a week or two, or this is (as others have speculated) a public excuse for resolving a private spat with the dvision president.
Dusty
Re Mattminus, I like KO, but he’s got a pretty widespread reputation throughout his entire career for being more than a handful to deal with behind the scenes. I don’t even think you have to go out on a limb to speculate that management might not be all that fond of him on a personal level. Whether it’s bad enough to get him fired at a time when they seem to be rebranding the network as liberal and he’s pretty much the liberal face of the network is another story.
lamh32
Conspiracy theory number one, ComCast buyout of NBC real reason why Olbermann is out.Wait til they find out Rachel’s gay (/snark)
JPL
The policy does not make any sense unless MSNBC’s policy is IOKIYR. It might be time to write a few letters and make a few phone calls.
You Don't Say
I meant to link to this in this thread.
chopper
@morzer:
sounds like it. looks like he got suspended not for making the donations, but not notifying management which is apparently part of the contract.
Citizen_X
@sven: Jesus. If Countdown is not an opinion program, then I’m a fucking unicorn.
The Grand Panjandrum
They must making room for the Sheriff Joe Arpaio and Rodney King Fun Hour …
You Don't Say
@sven: I know, what crap. How could anyone say that with a straight face?
Bill E Pilgrim
@Bullsmith:
Not to mention that the Republican is on the air for three hours every day, nearly as much as all of the liberals combined.
On the network that’s famously “all-liberal”. Just like FOX, but for liberals, which we hear non-stop from anyone truly serious.
And then they suspend one of the non-conservatives.
Go Joe! Soon they’ll have him on 24/7 and call it a liberal network because Mika occasionally tsks about something he says, between her mostly nodding and agreeing.
ericvsthem
@sven: That’s it, I’m heading home now to begin drinking. I’ll stop around the time that explanation begins to make sense.
JenJen
I’m just livid about this, but honestly, can’t imagine the suspension lasting long. MSNBC won’t be able to handle the backlash-tsunami coming their way from their loyal viewership.
BR
@Calouste:
Yeah, I agree. This one seems too obvious. And it brings up the Fox donation to RGA, etc.
Not that it will matter, because NBC will can him for doing what others do, and then find a stellar “liberal” host like Harold Ford to take his place.
Scott
Republicans just took the House. That means Olbermann loses his job.
The rule is: When Republicans are in office, you get rid of your liberals and hire more conservatives, because they’ll have better access to legislative sources and be more in-tune with the national mood.
When Democrats are in office, you get rid of your liberals and hire more conservatives, because SHUT UP, JUST FIRE THE LIBRULS
bozack
It’s hard for me to muster much sympathy for KO, if that is indeed the policy… but if they’re failing to apply the same standards to Joe Scar, that is the real story here.
Zuzu's Petals
Looking forward to Palin’s outraged FIRST AMENDMENT! tweets.
Bullsmith
@MattR:
The double standard comes right from the spokesman mouth (via the C&L link in comment 2 above). He says Joe Scarborough’s just opinion but KO is news so he’s held to a higher standard.
That’s just fucking ridiculous. They’re both opinionated loudmouth MSNBC political hosts, one clearly a dem and one clearly a Republican. There is no logical reason KO should be suspended from his job for doing exactly the same thing Scarborough did. It’s a double standard, that is exactly the correct term.
Edit- Sven already posted the quote. It really speaks for itself. One standard for the republican, a higher one for KO.
mclaren
I’ll explain it to you:
TV networks suck the mob’s dicks.
When the mob changes direction, the TV networks follow ’em. Why did MSNBC and ABC and CBS and CNN stop inviting Ann Coulter?
Because the Demos won big in 2008.
Why is Olbermann getting booted now?
Because the Repubs just won big in 2010.
If Communists win big in 2012, Larry Kudlow will get fired and the networks will hire some Marxist professor to explain why capitalism can’t work.
If ufologists win big in 2016, the TV networks will hire a saucer cultist.
b-psycho
I’d lean towards this being personal, seeing as how Chris Hayes is filling in tonight.
sven
@BR: Great point. There are a slew of Blue-Dogs looking for work at the moment. I am sure that some of them will find work as ‘liberal’ voices on the networks.
Poopyman
My guess is that he’ll be back in a week or 2. It could be the suits were sending him a message. Or the suits decided that suspending him and bringing him back just before sweeps week would be ratings gold.
Of course, it could be both. Double win!
Scott
Hmm, what’s the bet that the MSNBC president has made some political contributions?
Bullsmith
@mclaren:
This is nonsense. Democrats won huge in 06 and 08 and Meet the Press went right on featuring Republicans as if they were the majority. Same is true for pretty much every MSM outlet.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@sven:
Ahhh so.
That explains why the rest of the media treats the bloviating on Morning ‘Ho as literal fact and ignores everything which comes out of Countdown with a wave of the hand. Because one of them is only an opinion show and the other is a..
Hey, wait a minute!
TooManyJens
This post sums up my feelings exactly. It’s a nonsense policy when applied to commentators who were hired to have a political point of view. At the same time, Keith Olbermann knew it existed, and I don’t feel sorry for him. It’s like Clinton getting a hummer in the Oval Office — you didn’t have to do that, you idiot.
This whole incident really makes me think less of MSNBC if they’re trying to claim that Olbermann’s show is strictly news and doesn’t have a political point of view. Because that’s bullshit, and furthermore, there’s nothing wrong with having a political point of view as long as you’re not lying and pretending you’re being completely nonpartisan and unbiased. One of the things I like about Maddow’s show is that, at least most of the time, she brings the facts to the table. She has her very obvious views, but they are informed by reality. That’s a great model, and I’d feel a lot better if MSNBC would just embrace it explicitly.
Davis X. Machina
@Citizen_X: Oh, you’re one of those unicorns. I guess we don’t trap you with a virgin, then.
Pangloss
@Zuzu’s Petals: As usual, you’re awesome.
geg6
I’m sure that Olbermann was simply thinking that if it’s okay for Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan to make donations to political candidates, then it’s okay for him to do it, too.
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Scarborough%2C+Joe&state=&zip=&employ=MSNBC&cand=&all=Y&sort=N&capcode=kb5h2&submit=Submit
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Buchanan%2C+Patrick&state=&zip=&employ=&cand=&all=Y&sort=N&capcode=7766f&submit=Submit
El Cid
If MSNBC’s policy is to ban political donations from on-air hosts or other employees, and it’s only applied to Olbermann, then it’s not a policy but an arbitrary selective punishment.
[In other words, given Scarboy’s donation to Kitts, then it’s a bunch of anti-liberal horse-shit.]
change
HA.
Hahahhaha.
AHAHAHAHAHA!
This week just gets better and better!
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Scott:
Management and employees have the same right to make political contributions, except that some rights are more equal than others.
Mike E
@TooManyJens: wait…Olbermann got a hummer, also?
Michael
It won’t be long now.
I fully expect there to be a “7 days in May” scenario in the next several months, led by some USAF Evangeligoobers. Boner will be the figurehead that will lead the government until “orderly” elections can get held in 2012.
They’ll probably give the rump state a pretty name, and it’ll all sound vaguely constimatooshinal so as to make the low info right wing voters happy.
We’ll have us some fine PO-lice state shenanigans, lots of arrests, some unfortunate deaths and wholesale disenfranchisement.
White Christians that aren’t in positions of leadership will, as is par for the course, cluck and tsk tsk over the repression while doing nothing but praying at their filthy bronze age goatherd cult centers, while each news organ tries to out-Goebbels the others.
It’ll only come to an end after angry brown people set off a nuclear IED in lower Manhattan, and ‘Murka’s Masters of the Universe hear their skin fry just before they die.
I look forward to seeing pasty and chubby Red State men grovel before the Chinese, French, Latino, Spanish, Indian, Vietnamese and African occupation troops….
MattR
@Bullsmith: That quote is from an article posted in May 2009 and does not address the specific question of whether Scarborough asked for and received approval to make his donations
(EDIT: The article may actually be from earlier, the first of two user comments attached to that list of journalists who contributed to political campaigns is from May 2009)
sherifffruitfly
Clearly this, too, is Obama’s fault.
leftist
Does anybody remember whose place Olbermann took?
Phil Donahue.
Remember, Donahue was fired during the runup to the invasion of Iraq.
This seems like a similar thing. The Congress turned hard right. And MSNBC is pandering to what they see as the new right wing mood.
The only question seems to be whether or Olbermann saw it coming and provoked his suspension.
Maybe it’s better to go out with a bang.
Sentient Puddle
@b-psycho:
According to TPM, Chris Hayes donated $500 to Democratic candidates in ’09. So…you’re probably right.
Rhoda
This is crazy. And why the hell was Politico checking on donations made by Olbermann specifically? Someone’s looking to kick him out.
ed drone
@Bullsmith:
Well, if they conclude that KO’s show is “news,” then it’s because it’s a hell of a lot more fact-based that Joe’s, innit? After all, facts have a well-known liberal bias.
I will say, though, that it’s indicative of something that NBC decides to follow its rules, silly as they are, while Fox Noise can donate billions (counting air-time and direct contributions) to Repubs with no acceptance of any sort of blame. It’s proof (if we even ever needed it) that Fox is not a News organization, in any way, shape or form, while NBC at least tries to keep an even keel.
But I want Keith back, blow-hard that he is. He’s at least a citizen; Fox is just a corporation (and foreign-owned at that).
Ed
Pangloss
Is he allowed to vote without permission? I guess that’s next.
Dusty
Re Sentient Puddle, Chris Hayes is a standard fill-in for both Maddow and Olbermann. I wouldn’t read all that much into the fact that they called the guy at the top of the phone tree to sub at the last minute.
J sub D
I find Olbermann exorbitantly stupid. And condescending. And irritating. He’s almost a mirror image of Bill O’Reilly.
That said, this is just stupid. Even idiots should be able to donate to a politician of their choice whether they are in the opinion or the “straight news” side of the house.
To MSNBC – NOBODY believes you report the “news” impartially anyway. With or without that inane policy sane people will continue to consider MSNBC, like FOXNews, a network ran by partisan shills.
liberal
@MattR:
Point taken, but in all honesty, aside from the policy being stupid in itself, the idea that it’s OK if the donations are “approved” is beyond idiotic. WTF difference does it make if they’re “approved,” in an ethical sense? The only obvious thing would be concern about unseemly influence, but that’s a joke. The approval is nothing more than an idiotic rubber stamp. We’ve got enough of those these days.
Violet
Is anyone looking into the political contributions of ALL MSNBC and NBC anchors and commentators? I’d love for that list to be made public.
So, Matt Lauer, who did you donate to? Is that how you landed that first post-presidency interview with George W. Bush?
John PM
This is one of many reasons why I do not watch cable news
AlanDean
Countdown is News? I thought management loved his Special Comments, which were so newsy. This is a real blow if he does not return. Balloon Juice TV anyone? Every night can close with John playing with his dogs and railing on crappy mojitos. I’m going to go frack some shale. Drinking sounds good, also too.
Dusty
Re liberal, the approval requirement is a silly figleaf. But I do kind of think they ought to disclose when they’re covering specific races that they’ve donated to. So, for instance, maybe Olbermann should have noted that he’d donated to Conway when discussing Rand Paul. But that doesn’t seem to be the NBC policy.
Mnemosyne
@TooManyJens:
Yeah, I’m not sure that I’m willing to take MSNBC’s word on this one, especially since they’re now sputtering that Joe Scar’s donations without permission were A-OK but Olbermann’s were suspension-worthy.
But I’m guessing this is just the first step in the future Supreme Court case of Olbermann v MSNBC where the Roberts court decides that corporations have free speech but people don’t.
And Another Thing...
@change: GO.FUCK.YOURSELF.
Violet
@Mnemosyne:
Please let this happen. PLEASE.
MattR
@Violet: My link up in comment 65 is a list of all journalists who made contributions from 2004 through the first quarter of 2007.
@liberal: I actually think the NBC policy makes sense as a way to make sure they are not donating to complete whackos. I am guessing if there is no policy (or if they just ask for notification) then there is nothing they could do to get rid of someone contributing to David Duke.
@Mnemosyne: Please read my comment above as well about Joe’s contributions. They quote justifying it/creating the double standard is old and completely unrelated to Keith.
TooManyJens
@Mike E: Of COURSE, haven’t you HEARD? And then afterwards, they flew to India at a cost of eleventy trillion dollars! Michelle Bachmann read it somewhere, so it must be true!
TooManyJens
@Mnemosyne:
I hadn’t heard that JS’s donations were without permission. That’s just fucking great.
lamh32
@MattR:
From everything I’ve read so far, it seems as though Olbermann did disclose it.
How much do you wanna bet that someone (GOP, FOX, hell someone maybe at MSNBC) did not feed this story to Politico.
I don’t believe it for one minute. The BIG difference between Joe Scar and Olbermann is that the RW crazies would make banshee screams over this, cause it’s Olbermann.
MattR
@lamh32: Really? Several places I looked including the Crooks and Liars linked in comment 2 have updates indicating the opposite.
(EDIT: However at this point, I think the more important thing is that the quote from an NBC spokesman about Scarborough that is being used to fuel the controversy is old and out of context.)
And Another Thing...
Somebody needs to fire Phil Griffin. The entertainment world is full of talented, pain in the ass people like Keith Olbermann. The last time I looked Olbermann had the best ratings. Griffin’s a FUCKING FOOL. You.just.don’t.do.this.to.the.talent.
Steve
I think it’s perfectly sensible to bar journalists from making donations, maybe even opinion journalists. But if you’re going to do that, saying they can do it as long as they get permission is all kinds of dumb. Either ban it or don’t.
ornery curmudgeon
It’s odd watching ‘liberal’ sites churn with fluff and new or seldom-seen commentators when something like this occurs … Yes many here are liberal (I don’t buy the label ‘leftist’), but that’s not where the $$$ is…
This is, on it’s face, a shocking example of hypocrisy and injustice and corporate purging of one of few remaining dissenting voices to corporate rule.
Instead we pause for conjecture (even in the intro post), and then enters ‘concerned’ handwringing and ‘let’s wait to see how this plays out, he’ll be back next week probably,’ and more conjecture and off-topic resentment and scapegoating, until gradually it becomes Olberman who (might be?) is probably to blame and anger begins from the nuttiness so that any consensus or hope of productive reaction is lost.
We swallow sophistries and plausible or even far-fetched lies to keep believing ‘they’ are reasonable on some level, and that we are still good and brave and have a future acting just how we are acting.
So many Progressive voices for the people have been tarnished and removed … yet re-elected Vitter sits in his diaper ruling us, Bush is on a book tour being rehabilitated by the corporate media …
Bullsmith
@MattR:
So what if it’s an old quote. Saying that Morning Joe is opinion but Countdown is straight news is bullshit on it’s face. KO’s entire schtick is opinion. MSNBC has a double standard, face it. By MSNBC’s logic if they approved donations only to Republicans, that would be perfectly within their rights, and A-OK with you?
I do notice you’re trying to throw dirt on what’s a very, very clear bit of BS by MSNBC.
leftist
I believe Donahue had high ratings too when he was fired.
Poopyman
From Crooks & Liars:
So it’s not the -crime- donations, it’s the -coverup- failure to get approval.
And do they every deny approval? On what basis?
eemom
this thing actually started percolating over at memeorandum yesterday, and the early reports said it was an issue because he interviewed the people he donated to without disclosing that fact. So, fwiw, it appears the story has changed, if they’re now saying he wasn’t supposed to donate at all.
Dunno. I understand the principle here, but after the events of this week I’m not going to be weeping into my pillow over KO’s big fat ego.
Though I do think it’s kind of hilarious that he can’t do a Special Comment about this.
Mnemosyne
@MattR:
Wait. Hold the phone. You think that your employer should be allowed to dictate to you where you’re allowed to donate your money?
What’s next, making my boss approve all charitable donations? I’m allowed to donate to the Susan G Komen Foundation but donating to Greenpeace could get me fired?
MattR
@Bullsmith: You are completely projecting the bit about Countdown being a news program into that quote. Nothing in that quote has anything to do with Keith or whether his show qualifies as a “news program” in any way whatsoever.
@Mnemosyne: I think for a media company that has to present an objective face to the public it is OK. I was also typing quick to respond to several comments, but my approval for the policy is also based on the premise that they approve all political contributions unless there is a very good reason.
leftist
MSNBC also fired Ashleigh Banfield for criticizing Michael Savage.
General Stuck
I think, and am hoping this is taken by liberals and dems in general as another sign they are competing with rules, and the other side has none. And rule numero uno now days, is that the wingnuts do pay a price in the media, but it’s to buy our elections, without any shame which is saved for dems to suffer exclusively, and now with United, that extends throughout the moneyed world the republicans dominate that will be fed more and more money to up the dollar amounts, and democrats and their poorer constituents will be forced out of the democracy market.
This is why I am predicting a more fierce and focused dem party leadership beginning with Obama and current dem congresscritters, finally rallying around the ugly notion that cash has first amendment rights. I think many dems, particularly in the House are seething over the mountains of cash they had to campaign against this election. And that seething is doubled because it was mostly cash from unknown sources who cannot be held accountable for their purchase.
Dems may have lost the House anyway, but surely the margin of defeat would have been less, considering averaged out over all districts and candidates in House elections, the amount came to about 2 million per wingnut candidate, if I remember right. or 7 or 8 times more than the dem. It was a huge advantage, particularly for negative ads, and in the most competitive districts, much more than 2 million was spent and the ratio even higher.
If house dems and senate too, are not pissed to the high heavens, they should be, as I know I am. And when even contributions to candidates is added to the United case, it will likely be lights out for dems, even with expected demographic gains, unless the public is educated to what is happening, and something is done.
Steve
@MattR: Of all the possible reasons why you might want management to have discretion, allowing them to veto particular candidates based upon whether they’re a wacko is perhaps the worst. I mean, your example is David Duke, but maybe I think Sharron Angle is a wacko. Maybe someone else thinks Al Franken is a wacko. Any scenario where management is saying “if this was candidate X it would be okay, but I can’t approve candidate Y” is just nuts.
The only justification for barring donations is that it undermines the appearance of journalistic objectivity. If that’s the rationale, then permission from management ought to make no difference whatsoever.
Mattminus
Wow, the groupthink is strong here. Most of y’all are really the mirror image of the righty commenters. There are no office politics, everything is a reich-wing conspiracy! Anyone who refuses to see the conspiracy is a plant! It’s simply impossible that anyone I agree with could have a reputation for being a jerk!
Any talk of KO’s rights is just stupidity. He doesn’t have a right to be a cable talking head. Any comparison to Fox news is an even greater stupidity. Fox has nothing to do with this and doesn’t share MSNBC’s corporate policy.
No matter what you think about the personalities involved, it appears that KO broke the rules. That much is entirely on him.
Southern Beale
The thing that sucks about it is that Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough also made political donations. IOKIYAR.
They’re saying Olbermann “didn’t ask permission first.” Meh. I’m so fucking over the liberal media.
Violet
@MattR:
But that’s old news now. Is the list of who donated 2007-present available? That’s juicier info.
@Steve:
Agreed. But can they ban journalists from donating? Legally can someone be banned from donating to a political campaign just because of where they work?
xochi
@ornery curmudgeon: These limbs are easy to come by. I’m gonna go out on two and say 1) what the fuck are you talking about?, and 2) I agree with mattminus, because KO is pretty insufferable on-camera. But of course, that’s his schtick. It comes as no surprise that someone who has made so much out of being the anti-Bill O’Reilly comes across as obnoxious. Fight fire with fire, and all that.
Still, this all seems pretty strange and stupid.
MikeTheZ
@Southern Beale: I’m so fucking over it all. Someone get me a toga and a fiddle, I’m going to get my name changed to Nero.
Southern Beale
@Steve:
It’s a little more nuanced than that. I know, nuance is hard. Follow me for a second:
• Yes Olbermann broke the rules, the same rules broken by the Republicans on the network. Olbermann got fired, the Republicans did not. Well, whatever. … he should have asked mother may I, who knows, we don’t work there, what do we know. Slap him on the wrist and be done with it.
• Tangentially (big word, look it up if you need to) there are people out there on The Twitter and The Facebook saying “Aha! Look! See this proves that MSNBC is biased and liberal and Commie and Socialist and stuff because Olbermann donated to the Democrat Party!”
And so here is where we calmly and reasonably point out that Fox News is then also biased and conservatives and Fascist and whatever else because not only do their personalities donate routinely to the Republic Party but Rupert Murdoch gave $1 million to the GOP and another $1 million to the US Chamber of Commerce.
So that is where Fox News comes in.
Also, anyone who harbored delusions that Olbermann was somehow not liberal has been living under a rock for a few years.
Too.
D-Chance.
First, they came after The Liberal Orange Plastic Guy, then they came after me.
Let Olbermanngate and its corresponding outrage wreak havoc, brothers in arms!
geg6
@General Stuck:
Not that I think this is the only reason, but I believe that it may play into Nancy SMASH’s decision to run for House Minority Leader. And to try to find a way to shove Hoyer out of the leadership completely.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/11/whack.php?ref=fpblg
shortstop
@Calouste:
Impossible that he should have done so without first launching a tidal wave of self-aggrandizing explanation.
By the way, Fox policy allows its employees to make political contributions and engage in political activities. Which is really the most honest thing they’ve ever done over there, when you think about it.
Bullsmith
@MattR:
Matt, some simple facts:
1. When Joe Scarborough donated to a Republican, MSNBC said it was okay because he hosts an opinion show. No mention of “permission” was made.
2. When KO did exactly the same thing, he was suspended without pay for failure to get permission. In this instance, the issue of “permission” is treated as the only relevant issue. In Joe’s case it was never even brought up.
Same action by host, completely different reaction by MSNBC. Why are you so interested in clouding the facts here?
Southern Beale
@Violet:
Hell yeah. I’ve worked at places where you can not only not donate to certain campaigns or causes, you can’t do any activity at all. No rallies, or campaign work or even letters to the editor on political issues.
J. Michael Neal
@TooManyJens:
Now you’ve heard it, but that doesn’t mean that anyone has provided evidence that it’s true. As far as I can tell, this is still in the out-of-control rumor stage. It seems to rely on a MSNBC spokesman saying in 2009 that Scarborough runs an opinion show, without any reference either to whether or not Keith Olbermann’s show is opinion or news, or whether Scarborough cleared it with management first. The fact based community is on a roll again.
As for Olbermann being an asshole, I thought this was pretty much taken as a given. It’s not like anyone in the industry is shy about saying so, or that his exit from ESPN provides any evidence to the contrary. He’s a jackass who made his name working with Dan Patrick, and he hasn’t been nearly as entertaining since he stopped working with Patrick.
There are legitimate questions to be asked here, but I’m fresh out of sympathy for the protagonist of this story, and I’m fresh out of tolerance for the idiots on this thread who keep stringing together conjectures and calling it a case.
Mister Papercut
I’m just waiting for the deluge of all the long-time MSNBC listeners registering their outrage at such a gross abridgement of this journalist’s free speech rights.
Bob L
MSNBC explation why it is bad when Olbermann did it and ok when Scarboro did is truely hilerious. They basically admitted that since Olbermann is a liberal he telling the truth so they need to protect it and Morning Joe is just talking out of his ass so WTF. This really is damn funny in a black comedy kind of way.
lamh32
Hilarious, now Bill Kristol is defending Olbermann. I ain’t gonna link to it, but Ben Smith has it on his blog at politico!
Thoughtcrime
@Violet:
How about we ask Justices Roberts, Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Kennedy?
They know what’s best for the American people.
David Brooks (not that one)
@Calouste: Not a teenager. My son is 31 :-)
MikeJ
I understand why media outlets want to stop keep their employees from donating. It’s to stop the appearance of bias.
But it doesn’t do anything about actual bias. Not donating doesn’t mean a journalist has no opinion on politics. It simply means we don’t know what his or her real opinions are.
Disclosure is the solution. Don’t like your money going to gay bashers? Don’t shop at Target. Don’t want your news coming from someone who contributes to Democrats? Don’t watch Keith Olberman.
Dennis SGMM
@John PM:
It has been two years this month since I’ve watched anything but old movies on the teevee.
I guess that being old and tired has taken its toll. All that watching the nooz did for me was to make me furious about things over which I had no power what so ever.
Southern Beale
I have a comment which is awaiting moderation and I don’t know whyyyyyy
Jay in Oregon
@Scott:
I thought it was more of “We need to provide a balanced view on the Democratic administration.”
piratedan
wondering how in the hell that contract language is even valid…. getting permission to donate to whatever political candidates you wish is a right guaranteed by Citizen’s United, isn’t it?
Southern Beale
@Dennis SGMM:
Amen to that. It’s like a drug, it really is. It brainwashes people. They need to put down the TV-remote-shaped crack pipe.
kay
It’s so hard for me to gin up any sympathy for Olbermann. He was a complete mental case on the health care bill. I stopped watching after the “take me to jail if you must” nonsense. For God’s sake, shut up and read the proposed bill. You’re not going to jail, Mr. Millionaire.
Susan Ross
@General Stuck:
Educating the public is *never* the answer to combat dirty tricks. Fully 2/3 of the voting public is simply uneducable about this stuff-too partisan or too stupid-and those who do care already know. I know that sounds harsh, but lefties had got to get over the idea that the public will respond to this type of thing with any real force. They won’t. The last 30 years has shown us that many, many people can very easily be conned into voting against their own interests with nothing but a few well-placed words and pictures, so I think we need a different strategy.
J. Michael Neal
@Bullsmith:
That’s because no one was asking whether he had permission. They asked why he was allowed to make the donation. Saying that they didn’t answer a question that wasn’t asked is dumb.
You’re drawing conspiracy lines in your own head.
Todd Pearson
The point is hyprocisy, which probably shouldn’t result in a supsension since we are all guilty of it to some degree. Being pro-life is fine; being pro-life until your daughter gets pregnant is hyprocisy. Olbermann blasted the exact same actions that he personally engaged in. I have no sympathy for his predicament. He makes a living slamming people for not living up to some standard that he won’t live up to himself. Glenn Beck is Howard Beale, but Olbermann is his understudy.
Paris
Faux will hire him, right?
J. Michael Neal
@Violet:
Yes. That’s an easy one, and has been true for the entire history of the Republic.
chopper
@Zuzu’s Petals:
by sheer coincidence, palin’s official tweeter broke both her hands in a skeeball accident.
BTW, just as an aside: my 22 month-old girl has taken to saying “also, too”. and i had nothing to do with it. like i’ll tell her when we’re going to day care that she’s going to see a friend of hers and she’ll name another one “also, too.”
Dennis SGMM
@Southern Beale:
If any of the words contained the letters “c,” “i,” “a,” and “l” and “s” in that order then you have your answer. I forgot that the other day and correctly the spelled the “ism” that’s soshul and my pithy, urbane, Dorothy Parker-grade comment went to mod.
Susan Ross
@kay:
Keith Olbermann is a blowhard but he’s a blowhard on our side. My guess is that this was an in-your-face provocation on his part, daring his bosses to do anything about it. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.
(btw, Rachel is not going anywhere. She’s smarter and nowhere near the hothead Keith is.)
MikeJ
@piratedan: It’s not the government stopping him from donating, it’s our betters at GE. Citizens United Not Timid doesn’t have anything to do with this case.
Mark S.
@Mnemosyne:
I haven’t seen that either. Do you have a link?
The Moar You Know
@change: Gotta agree with you on this one, troll. I find Olbermann both unwatchable and insufferable. He’s an embarrassment to liberalism and we are far better off without him.
Fortunately, we still have Maddow, whose awesomeness knows no limits.
Violet
@Southern Beale:
What kinds of places were those, just out of curiosity? Was there some concern with an appearance of a conflict of interest or something?
Seems like there could be a First Amendment freedom of speech here. Why should the employer dictate what you do on your off time? Weird gray area.
MattR
@Bullsmith: Geez. I am trying to clarify the actual facts instead of lump them all together. The reason why? I have heard the story of the boy who cried wolf and learned a lesson from it. If you want to be taken seriously when there is a real double standard, it helps if you are not constantly whining about imagined ones.
As for no mention of permission being made. That is true in the quote itself, but the article that lists Scarborough’s contribution prefaces the quote by noting the NBC policy requiring that permission be given. Which might make you think the quote was explaining why permission was given. (The headline of the article reads: “The list: Journalists who wrote political checks
And their explanations, from ‘Yikes!’ to ‘They’re all in somebody’s pocket’ “) At the very least I find the notion doubtful that the reporter discovered that Scarborough violated the policy by not asking permission but did not include that info in his listing.
lamh32
@kay:
I’m where you’re at kay, but I still think Olbermann for all his self-righteousness (I really was done when he started his whole “primary Obama” thing during the HCR fight), but darn, it still seemed like MSNBC we way overboard for what superficially seems like a first-time infarction.
shortstop
@J. Michael Neal:
This.
J. Michael Neal
@kay:
Fixed
martha
@Dennis SGMM: I’m about there with you, only I’m partial to Home and Garden and the Food Network and PBS and sports on ESPN if there’s something I can stand watching. I’ve stopped watching the news and MSNBC and all of it. I’m not as crabby, that’s for sure.
leftist
MSNBC, oddly enough, seems very similar to the Democratic Party itself.
Every once in awhile they throw a liberal (Donahue, Ashleigh Banfield, Olbermann) to the right wing wolves.
But they don’t necessarily change their center left politics.
Chris Matthews seems untouchable. But he probably still has some clout in the Democratic Party. Didn’t he write the “Malaise” speech for Carter?
And does anybody think Mika Brzezinski would be on the air at all if her name were “Snooki Brzezinski” and her father wasn’t the ex head of the Trilateral Commission.
If they give someone like Cenk Uygur Olbermann’s place it wouldn’t really suprise me. Olbermann was the ultimate piece of red meat to throw to the right.
But I don’t think MSNBC wants to become right. I just think they want part of Fox’s audience.
Southern Beale
@Violet:
One was a federal government agency and one was a media company.
chopper
can we replace him with another hour of rachel maddow? maybe we can clone her? or does she have a sibling who is anywhere near as awesome as she is?
Southern Beale
@leftist:
I’m sorry but exactly why do we need to throw red meat to the right? What do we get out of it? That wolf is always hungry.
FlipYrWhig
@eemom:
That was what I speculated at Steve Benen’s:
J. Michael Neal
@Violet:
It isn’t even vaguely a gray area. It’s just about as black and white as you can get. The First Amendment forbids the government from putting restrictions on your speech. The government only. Contractual relationships, such as working for someone, are not relevant to the First Amendment. At all.
leftist
@Southern Beale:
I’m not saying I agree with it anymore than I agree with Obama’s using James O’Keefe as an excuse to get rid of Acorn.
I’m just speculating about their motives.
kay
@Susan Ross:
I’m picky about “my” advocates, and I know I can’t choose them, but there it is. There was so much stupid noise around the health care bill and he has to start throwing prison into the mix. Idiot.
I’d like to deliver Huffington back to the GOP, actually, while I’m at it. Drop her on their doorstep. “Here! I believe this is yours!”
I freaking cringe when I see her presenting herself as the champion of the middle class. It’s comical. Please, please don’t advocate for me Arianna. You’re killing me with kindness.
wasabi gasp
To stem any further job loss induced by the shady crossroads of politics and money, the public’s interest would be best served by making donations to liberal candidates a capital offense.
chopper
@J. Michael Neal:
this. for example, i can’t leak trade secrets if i work for some company or i’ll get shitcanned at the very least. that isn’t a freedom of speech issue, it’s an employment contract issue.
Susan Ross
@chopper:
This. If we had a world full of Rachels-who doesn’t apologize, back down or or twist herself into knots trying to appeal t everybody, and does it with a smile and oh-so-politely-progressives would rule the world.
Southern Beale
@Mark S.:
I saw it at C&L, there may be other links.
Elia
Isn’t O-mann a huge PITA for management?
I would imagine this has been a long time coming and is not really about the donations – much less a response to Boehnmentum.
tamied
But this is excellent news for John McCain of course.
MattR
@Southern Beale: There is nothing there that says that Scarborough gave a donation without permission (which I belive is what Mark S was asking about)
Poopyman
@Southern Beale: Yeah, that day is coming real soon. I realized not long ago that I couldn’t eat with the TV on because it ruined my digestion.
Guess I’ll be eating in front of the computer screen. Oh, wait ….
Bullsmith
@J. Michael Neal:
No I’m not drawing conspiracy lines, I’m reacting to a schizophrenic PR response from MSNBC. They’re the one’s who decided to frame two examples of the identical issue as somehow completely different. Will they now say Joe had permission? That makes it okay to have a double standard, because they pre-approve it?
One more time the FACTS are: Morning host gives to Republican, it’s okay. Evening host gives to Democrats they get suspended. Everything else is just spin. If the rules were iron clad they would’ve brought up the “permission” policy in the Joe Scarborough case. They didn’t because it’s only relevant if they decide it is, there is no real standard being applied here.
That’s the picture MSNBC is presenting to the world. No conspiracies required, they made this mess all by themselves. They have a stupid policy and they don’t apply it evenly as proven by the completely different PR spin given about Keith’s donations as compared to Joe’s.
Susan Ross
@kay:
Arianna Huffington is useful for her money, but that’s about it. Every time I see her representing liberal positions on some talk show I just cringe, mostly because she usually has no idea what she’s talking about.
J. Michael Neal
@kay: I don’t mean to keep picking on you, but . . .
As much of a jackass as he is, I do believe that Olbermann’s stated opinions are honest. I have never thought that about Huffington, even back when she broadcast from the same bed as Al Franken. (No, literally, for those of you too young to remember Strange Bedfellows.)
artem1s
Hmmm, backlash for Juan Williams anyone?
also, looks like its not such a bad gig being a progressive in the House…
http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=12713
shortstop
@kay: And this, too.
I know we don’t have that many guys on our side on cable, but must we heap praise on such shoddy work?
Maddow is 30 Rock and Olbermann is Third Rock from the Sun. I recognize that the latter was a very popular sitcom. Doesn’t mean it was a smart, witty, or fast-moving comedy.
shortstop
@J. Michael Neal: Was that a George stunt? Or am I misremembering in my middle age?
FlipYrWhig
@Elia: Except for the way that there was a lot of chatter about how the MSNBC hosts on Election Night had been badgering and laughing at Republicans. Jon Stewart was banging that particular drum, and so was Bob Somerby. I expect that the right was baying for blood. Could be a coincidence, but it’s interesting.
Poopyman
@Susan Ross:
Yeah, we need a way to con them into voting for their own interests. It sounds stupid, but that’s the only way I see out of this mess.
Southern Beale
@leftist:
I hear ya.
I think this probably has more to do with Olbermann’s long battles with Phil Griffin and Comcast’s pending purchase of NBC/Universal than anything else. Rather than this being red meat thrown to the right wing Olbermann could have been sacrificed to make the Comcast deal go down. They may have had a boner for him or something.
Anyway this was a major fuckup on MSNBC’s part — also, a major fuckup on Olbermann’s part, it’s possible he knew they wouldn’t let him make the contribution if he asked permission so he did it anyway.
I predict Olbermann will be suspended for a week without pay and be back and that will be that.
MattR
@Bullsmith:
Let’s try an analogy. I have a brand new sports car that I don’t let anyone else drive without permission. One day a reporter sees that my friend Joe was driving the car and asks me about it. I tell the reporter that Joe is a very cautious driver. Later on my friend Keith takes the car out for a drive without asking me. I get pissed and decide to no longer be friends with Keith.
Did I have a double standard? Am I spinning things since I never explicitly mentioned that Joe had permission to take my car out when the reporter called and asked?
@Southern Beale: Bear in mind that Keith said this was his first political contribution (at least while at MSNBC) so there is a decent chance he was not fully aware of the policy, or that he forgot about it.
Bulworth
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/11/today_in_shortsightedness.php?ref=fpblg
OT and open thread stuff, but when did Kurtz start concern-trolling?
FlipYrWhig
@shortstop:
Can Lawrence O’Donnell be Cop Rock? No one’s quite sure why the weird premise got greenlighted.
Who gets to be “Schoolhouse Rock”?
J. Michael Neal
@shortstop: No, it was a stunt on Politically Incorrect back during the 1996 national conventions.
Jesus, it was *that* long ago?
leftist
@Southern Beale:
The way he was suspended (for not asking permission and not for the donations themselves) seems to conform to standard right wing practice.
Remember Ward Churchill. The actual reason he was fired was the 9/11 speech. The “official” reason he was fired was because a group of scholars spent a few weeks going through his work. They eventually found a few questionable footnotes.
This not only brings in Fox viewers. It sends a message.
If “we” are going to be attacking Iran any time in the near future, Rachel Maddow might just need a reminder of what could happen if she doesn’t go along.
FlipYrWhig
@Bulworth: When did Kurtz _not_ concern troll? I feel like he’s done that, um, always.
J. Michael Neal
@Bulworth: 2007
Sentient Puddle
@chopper:
I vote this.
Southern Beale
@artem1s: @artem1s:
?? As I remember it, Juan Williams got a $2 million contract at Fox News after saying Muslims on planes make him nervous. And I also recall Olbermann defending him for making that statement.
geg6
@leftist:
WTF? Link, please. I had no idea that Obama was the one that disbanded ACORN. Especially since the executive branch has no control over the budget, which is how ACORN got de-funded.
Susan Ross
@shortstop:
I think it’s entirely possible to take this too seriously. For myself, when I watch Countdown I do it for the sole pleasure of watching the right wing get pounded into dust for an hour. It certainly serves that purpose and from that perspective is a very entertaining show.
However, I watch Rachel Maddow to actually get some real news and learn something. The shows are two sides of the same coin.
kay
@J. Michael Neal:
Absolutely true. Good point.
In my more paranoid moments, I think Huffington is actually on the other side :)
Not a good feeling, but can she be that bad and be well-intentioned?
leftist
@geg6:
Pelosi might be the more accurate reference. Let’s just say “The Democratic Party.”
They controlled both houses of Congress and defunded Acorn without hearings.
James O’Keefe was a transparent fraud from the beginning. Pelosi and Obama weren’t stupid enough to buy what he was selling.
He was an excuse.
Southern Beale
And again what kills me about all of this is the BAZILLIONS of dollars the media has raked in on this midterm election in the form of campaign ads.
We need to find a better way.
MattR
@Southern Beale: One other thing that popped into my head is that I don’t think we have any way of knowing if Joe Scarborough (or anyone else) gave $$ to entities like Rove’s Crossroads GPS.
Mister Papercut
@shortstop: I would actually go for Big Bang Theory for Olbermann: nowhere near as smart as it or its hard-core fans thinks it is.
FlipYrWhig
@Poopyman:
No, that’s clever, but I’m not sure it’s possible. My idea has long been to try to expose the con _as_ a con. Some version of “Don’t let them get away with treating you like you’re stupid” as a tag line. My best example is the way Republicans started caterwauling about Bill Clinton’s “largest tax hike in American history,” which was only true if you counted it in _raw dollars_. But it sure sounds like it must mean an _increase in the rate_. The important part isn’t the explanation, but to hammer the fact that Republicans count on your trust and play you for a chump, _but you’re not a chump_.
Southern Beale
In non-Keith Olbermann news, the Log Cabin Republicans are officially vacating the 9th Circuit and taking Dont Ask Dont Tell repeat to SCOTUS.
Wow. I picked the wrong week to stop shooting heroin.
Mark S.
@MattR:
Yeah, it doesn’t say Joe gave his w/o permission. The NBC spokesperson kinda dumb:
Never mind that nobody thinks KO hosts anything but an opinion program, nobody cares if Kitts is an old friend of Joe’s or if they used to be fuck buddies. What we care about is if there was disparate treatment between Joe and KO. If there was, KO could sue the pants off of NBC.
batgirl
@Thoughtcrime: Probably, if it is in a private employment contract, as it is in this case. I’m guessing that many news organizations have something like this. Not surprised FOX doesn’t because they aren’t a news organization no matter how much Jack Tapper likes to think of them as his sister organization.
Of course, it would be an interesting case to take to the Supreme Court. — Can you require an employee to give up some of the first amendment rights (donating to a political candidate/cause) in an employment contract? In any contract? Or just in an organization, such as a news organization, where the perception of political bias, can affect the way one does his/her job? Definitely, interesting questions.
FlipYrWhig
@leftist: An excuse to kill ACORN? To what end? Is this one of those “shadowy corporatists control everything, bwahahahah” posts?
Bulworth
@FlipYrWhig: I hadn’t noticed until some DFH on these threads mentioned him. But I read that post at TPM and was like, WTF?
shortstop
@Susan Ross:
Don’t misunderstand me. I have no problem with the concept of political entertainment on cable news channels (although I have a huge problem with the reality of having only political entertainment on cable news channels). I just have moderately high standards for entertainment (thus my comment above about 30 Rock vs. Third Rock). Olbermann is excruciatingly hamhanded, slow-paced, unprepared, florid, smug, and repetitious. Five minutes of his show feels like 50.
MattR
@Mark S.: You have to remember that quote in from 2009 and has nothing to do with Keith.
@Southern Beale: Good for them. Though color me shocked that the Log Cabin Republicans are actually trying to advance gay rights
@Southern Beale: Now that is an issue worth bringing up. I find it hard to believe though since it really opens the door for an Olbermann lawsuit and I have to believe some lawyer somewhere at NBC would have brought that up.
MikeJ
@Southern Beale: It’s just the injunction. No way Kennedy or the full court will lift it. Ok, I suppose it’s possible, but it would surprise me a lot.
Southern Beale
Uh-oh. MSNBC might just be making it all up:
Will be interesting to watch this ….
geg6
@eemom:
They couldn’t go with that as the story because the blowback would be that, also too, Scarborough interviewed the guy he donated to on his show after he donated.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12172226/
Poopyman
Ruh-roh. Crooks and Liars is now playing Follow the Money. It doesn’t seem to me that that’s going to uncover anything we haven’t seen already, except that they do post what is said to be the NBC policy in question:
ETA: And Southern Beale made this moot two comments above. (Shakes fist.)
Susan Ross
I keep thinking about Ronald Reagan when he said, “Never speak ill of a fellow Republican.” Thirty years later, Democrats and liberals *still* don’t understand the power of the united front.
No matter what one might think of Olbermann in general, can any of us imagine Fox even thinking about doing something like this to one of their biggest primetime hosts, no matter how much of an idiot they thought that host was personally (cough*SeanHannity*cough)?
shortstop
@J. Michael Neal: Ah, right. But I also have a clear visual image of a magazine cover photo of Franken and Huffington in bed together waving exuberantly at the camera above. I even remember Franken’s blue-striped pajamas. If I’m hallucinating this, things are worse than I thought.
FlipYrWhig
@shortstop:
Have you watched the Lawrence O’Donnell show? It feels like you’re drifting in the Phantom Zone, where neither time nor space have meaning. You drop a coffee cup on the Lawrence O’Donnell show and it falls up, then you remember the shards of the cup forming into a cup shape a moment beforehand, because entropy has been reversed and memory is running forwards. The longer you watch it, the longer it takes for it to be over.
Southern Beale
I confess I rarely watch Olbermann any more, I’m a news junkie and usually have already heard whatever it is he’s talking about that night anyway. Heard about it, blogged about, commented on it, am done with it.
That said, just because I don’t watch, I realize there are people with real lives out there who might not have an opportunity to get this information without his show. So.
Free Olbermann!
shortstop
@Susan Ross: Well, again, Fox policy openly allows their people to donate to whomever they want — which, again, is far more aboveboard than Fox usually tries to be.
eemom
at this very moment, Olbermann is probably on a conference call with an army of lawyers whose hourly rates combined could feed the entire population of a good-sized third world country.
Just a little perspective zall.
jl
Why? they are big sack o’ rocks stoopid. Like the rest of the corporate media.
edit: Given corporate media stupidity, I would like to hear KO’s explanation, if he did understand the policy, and knew it, and has to abide by it for his contract. Is he arrogant, or trying to make a statement of some kind?
Steve
Actually, it is 100% illegal in New York State to fire or punish an employee for engaging in political activity… except for, wouldn’t you know it, professional journalists.
Waynski
Cough… Cough.. Bullshit… Cough Cough
JGabriel
Anonymous NBC Insider Source @ Gawker via Southern Beale:
Queue up the Fox Wurlitzer. They’re gonna jump all over that quote.
On the other hand:
If true, Olbermann will sue their asses off. That’s an open and shut case if Olbermann’s contract doesn’t require him to notify NBC heads of his political donations.
.
J. Michael Neal
@shortstop: I did really like Olbermann during his time at ESPN (except towards the end, when it was obviously a relationship headed downawards). (And contra Mister Papercut, I think Keith Olbermann is really smart. He’s just really smart but arrogant, annoying and not very funny anymore.) I still maintain that he misses Dan Patrick a lot, and that’s the big problem with his gig.
Every so often, I would hear him show up on Patrick’s ESPN Radio show (which must mean he does it a lot, since I’ve probably only heard Patrick’s show 3-4 times total, and caught Olbermann multiple times). The two of them were still really good together. Most importantly, Patrick knows how to let some of the air out of Olbermann when he gets out of control. Then again, Dan Patrick is really good at what he does.
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
tee hee. that is teh funny.
cleek
@kay:
clap clap clap
shortstop
@Mister Papercut: I’m chuckling knowingly (but unconvincingly, because I haven’t seen it) at your analogy.
Larkspur
Keith Olbermann is obnoxious. Michael Moore is obnoxious and fat. Blah blah blah. Niceness and slenderness are not bona fide occupational requirements. I don’t know if his suspension was nitpicky, retaliatory, or what, but I assume he’ll be back after his suspension and I will resume watching him, when I can (I don’t have cable at home), and, as usual, I’ll be agreeing with him and disagreeing with him. His personal charm doesn’t concern me.
I get tired of having to give these little prefaces that go, “Well, I know Michael Moore is a blowhard and kind of obnoxious, but Fahrenheit 911 was nevertheless a powerful film,” or “I know Keith Olbermann comes off as a big self-important jerk, but sometimes he’s right on the mark, and he often brings interesting people on deck to interview, so shut up that’s how I justify watching him even though I should be way cooler than that”. Ya know?
J. Michael Neal
@Steve:
This may be true, but it has nothing a
fasteddie9318
Well, there goes MSNBC. Sorry, Rachel, but you’re next.
priscianus jr
@MattR: IMO, it’s just as likely that MSNBC is sick of all the criticsm they receive from the Right over Olbermann
Awww, MSNBC diddums don’t wike bad kwiticizm?
TooManyJens
@J. Michael Neal:
…there are people too young to remember Strange Bedfellows, aren’t there. Oh God.
J. Michael Neal
@Steve:
This may be true, but it has nothing to do with the first amendment to the *US* Constitution.
Southern Beale
@Susan Ross:
Yes but our side is different. We are neither authoritarian nor homogenous. Fighting against that is like asking the wind to stop blowing.
Dennis SGMM
@martha:
I had a moment of clarity. I’d gone to see the doctor for something relatively minor and my blood pressure was so high that they threw me down and gave me an EKG to make sure that my heart wasn’t orbiting Jupiter. Doc prescribed a fistful of meds and I didn’t want to go that route because I see lots of people my age (I’m in my sixties) who have to take meds and then meds for the meds etc. I turned off the box, did more of other things, rescued a dog, and did some other old fashioned things. It worked. My BP went down to what doc considers optimal and I’m a much more happy person.
Susan Ross
@shortstop:
And good on them for doing it. At least in this little tiny corner of the universe, they aren’t trying to pretend to be something they are not, which MSNBC clearly is.
Tim I
MSNBC doesn’t have a leg to stand on. They took no action against Scarborough or Buchanan for similar infractions. It is also being reported that the NBC News rules have never been applied to hosts of opinion shows on MSNBC.
I hope Keith is already discussing how to proceed on this matter with his attorneys.
JGabriel
@Susan Ross:
To be fair, their demographic requires that Fox’s hosts be idiots.
.
shortstop
@FlipYrWhig: No, I admit that I haven’t. Because he does his homework and knows his stuff, I do like him as a guest or panelist on other shows (except when he realizes suddenly that 15 minutes have passed without his mentioning that he was a Senate staffer, and he hastens to rectify the omission). You’re convincing me that trying him out for an hour is not a good use of my limited time!
Calliope Jane
For what it’s worth, I’m really, really grateful for the AZ donations. Really, really grateful.
And now HuffPo updated that Chris Hayes isn’t going to host tonight’s show? Jeez.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/05/keith-olbermann-suspended_n_779586.html
Southern Beale
Chris Hayes no longer subbing for Olbermann tonight.
Bullsmith
@MattR:
When Scarborough gave to a Republican the official response from MSNBC was it’s no big deal, he’s just an opinion host who gave to his friend.
When KO gave to Democrats the official response from MSNBC was this is a deadly serious matter that requires permission in advance and failing to obtain it has forced us to suspend him without pay.
There is no evidence in the record that Scarborough asked for permission, as you seem to presume he did, but even if he did the reaction to the issue by MSNBC was night and day. In the Scarborough case it was treated as fundamentally not an important issue for reasons that logically apply to Olbermann as much as to Scarborough (basically that his political views are already clearly out there), but this time it’s so vitally important KO has to be taken off the air and his pay suspended. To use your analogy when Joe drives my car he’s just borrowing an old sedan, but if Keith does it he’s stolen a Mercedes Benz. It’s not just that there’s a double standard, it’s that in the KO case breaching the standard requires action, where as the possibility of Joe having done it didn’t merit more than a one line explanation. The difference in MSNBC’s whole framing of the underlying issue in the two cases is unmistakable to me. You feel that Joe probably asked permission and Keith didn’t so this is all okay. I strongly disagree, and frankly if Scarborough had asked permission a competent PR strategy would’ve had that fact at hand before suspending Keith.
One reason we disagree I think is that I read the MSNBC PR and it screams bullshit to me, whereas you’re inclined to take it as good faith truth-telling. My wife spent decades doing PR for big oil, and this smells awfully familiar, but that’s just my opinion.
But still, in the end MSNBC on-air personalities have made multiple political donations to Republicans without any reprisal. A donation to Democrats, however, got the guy who made it yanked off the air. For a news organization that is deliberately targeting a democratic audience, that’s just atrocious PR.
JGabriel
@Mnemosyne:
Corrected for likely SC reasoning: that employees aren’t people.
.
Steve
@J. Michael Neal:
That’s correct. However, people tend to want to avoid breaking the law even if they aren’t violating the Constitution.
I wouldn’t want anyone to go away from this thread with the idea that it is perfectly legal for your employer to punish you for supporting or donating to the wrong candidate. At least in some states, it is illegal for them to do so. If your state hasn’t made it illegal yet, maybe they should.
shortstop
@J. Michael Neal: I took Mr. Papercut’s comment to mean not that Olbermann isn’t smart, but that his show isn’t.
Scott
I suspect that Olbermann will be back on the air in less than a week — the buzz is that he got fired for donating to Democrats, while Scarborough and Buchanan get to donate to Republicans without penalty.
Yes, he got fired for not requesting permission to make the donations, but the buzz is already too strong for MSNBC’s PR to overcome — “everyone knows” that Olbermann was fired for donating to liberals while his bosses ignored the conservatives donating to the GOP.
Pressure will be high to explain themselves better, bring Olbermann back, or apply the policy to other MSNBC personnel — and they don’t want to fire Buchanan or Scarborough, so they’ll have to bring Keith back.
However, since Keith now knows that the brass want his head, he may not come back at all. Not sure who he’d go to, since neither Fox nor CNN would want him… Might just go back to sports full time…
cleek
@batgirl:
sure.
not sure about political donations, but you can be certainly forbidden from speaking publicly against your employer, for example.
sure!
Martin
For-profit corporation fires employee. There’s a story here?
The only reason MSNBC tacked to the left was to get the under-90 demographic that Fox News was leaving on the table. They’re not interested in ‘balancing’ out Fox, or in delivering news. If Maddow does that it, it’s because of Maddow, not MSNBC. They’re only interested in picking up all of the advertisers that aren’t Viagra, Depends, Goldline, and Hoveround.
Stop expecting MSNBC to be less dishonest than Fox. They aren’t. They’re simply less profitable.
Susan Ross
@Southern Beale:
LOL, my parents were different, too, but at least they knew enough not to fight in front of the kids. Not being able to find consensus even amongst ideological friends smacks of disorganization and weakness in the public’s mind. We may not like that, but it is 100% true. I don’t see barking and sniping and going all Bart Stupak on each other as a strength, frankly.
*shrugs*
Prepare to keep losing, then, even when you win. Ben Nelson, anyone?
Mike E
Olbermann is a pro. He put in his time, honed his craft, and worked his way up to where he is. I appreciate this every time I watch, but I never wish he wasn’t on the air whenever his self-referential act becomes a positive feedback loop. I don’t care.
I love Rachel, but she isn’t as gifted in the craft as Keith; how can she, her track record is a blip in comparison (and she can get a bit loopy sometimes also too). I don’t care. We need the non-CW dialog, from Keith, from Rachel, from Michael Moore (fat, I know, right?) whatever its low percentage, whenever possible.
Bob L
@Larkspur: Their obnoxious but fuck ya’. It’s goddamn being “nice” to assholes out to destroy the country for their screwy ideology. Fighting back is not what “nice” people do, but it is what has to be done.
“When they get in trouble they send for the sons-of-bitches” Admiral Ernest King, Commander in Chief of the US Navy during WWII. King was not a nice guy.
JenJen
@Bullsmith: You nailed it. Thank you.
And I’d like to add, I’d give just about anything to see Keith Olbermann show up on Bill Maher’s show tonight. I’ll bet Maher would have some great advice for him.
Martin
Since some people need a review:
MSNBC isn’t Congress, nor are they empowered to make laws. That’s also true of NPR.
Southern Beale
Geez, even Bill Kristol thinks the suspension is “ludicrous.”
MattR
@Bullsmith:
And this could have nothing to do with the fact that Scarborough followed the rules so there was no reason it would be a big deal but Olbermann broke the rules which made it a big deal?
But the damn PR quote you are focusing on was from 2009 when there was absolutely no reason to think that bringing up and confirming the permission aspect was the least bit important. Yes, ideally they should have been out in front of all of this and made sure that the announcement they made today clarified all of this. But it sounds like it was hastily done on a Friday afternoon so it is just as likely to be incompetence as deceit.
(EDIT: BTW, I am not saying that people should not keep digging or that we should assume and accept that everything they did was on the up and up. All I am asking is that we wait to have the facts instead of jumping conclusions because Olbermann is “one of us”.)
bemused
@Sentient Puddle:
Yes! I feel like Rachel is just getting really warmed up and the show is over.
I was scratching my head when Olbermann suspended Worst Person in the World. I thought, oh great, more time for him to prattle. I like watching his guests but I tuned out his solo huff n puff segments long ago.
ricky
Wow. Keith Olbermann donated to two losers out of three
donations. Is his batting average above or below Sarah Palin’s? As a news commentator/donor, I mean.
JGabriel
Southern Beale:
Uh oh, that’s not a good sign.
.
b-psycho
Who the hell CAN they have sub for Keith then? Cenk?*
(* – Lemme just say this to get it out there: anyone else find it weird that this name is seemingly pronounced “Jay”?)
Innocent Bystander
@morzer:
Poopyman
Oh, good grief! I just got an email from BoldProgressives.org wanting me to sign their emergency petition to MSNBC “to put Olbermann back on the air NOW!”
Let’s all take a deep breath, people….
General Stuck
@Susan Ross:
I don’t disagree with what you are saying, but wingnuts winning elections by buying them will not occur in a vacuum. Or, there will be consequences, and the public is already mistrusting and put out by big business, and elected wingnuts will be giving the corps more and more power. People pay attention to their bank accounts, and don’t like getting screwed by the plutocrats, at least past a certain point. We are heading into new territory, in an age flush with big corp cash in elections, and there will be a threshold point of diminished living standard when the pitchforks come out. I don’t know when that will be, but it will come at some point, when the right begins to think they have bought the presidency for life, and now have their permanent majority, and their impulses for unbound greed go full metal.
JGabriel
@ricky:
Apples and oranges. Palin expected her candidates to win. Olbermann’s donations were to help candidates that were behind.
.
Mike E
@Bullsmith: Shorter Groucho: I’m a Jew, you’re an exclusive country club…wtf?!
Bullsmith
@MattR:
Please provide evidence that Joe followed the rules.
edit- According to an unnamed source at Gawker (noted up thread) the standards referred to are for NBC and have not been applied to MSNBC’s highly opinionated staff for years. Which certainly makes sense why they reacted to nonchalantly to Scarborough’s donation without saying, notice, that they had pre-approved it.
cckids
Yes, again. You have the First Amendment right to donate, speak, rally, etc all you want. Your employer has the right to let you know they’ll fire your ass if you do those things. They cannot (yet) tell you how to vote. Though they do try (see McDonald’s).
batgirl
@cleek: @Martin: I don’t think (most) people here are arguing here that MSNBC violated Olbermann’s first amendment rights. I think they are arguing that MSNBC made a dick move, or that they aren’t applying their policies uniformly, or that they are lying about their motivation for suspending Olbermann, or take your pick.
And Another Thing...
While I find the legal discussions up thread interesting, what blows my mind is the wisdom of Griffin’s choice. I consider myself a customer of MSNBC. Maddows show is hands down my favorite, but Olbermann is clearly the #1 show on MSNBC, and Griffin just discontinued the product AND humiliated his product in the most high profile manner possible. As a viewer/customer, that REALLY pisses me off.
I don’t seem to be the only one, it’s almost impossible to get a call through the NBC Universal switchboard. They are getting blasted.
As a retired executive who spent 10 years in an entertainment company, as a business decision it’s baffling. It’s a jackass decision. While I’m pretty sure Olbermann is a major pain in the ass, if Griffin can’t figure out how to deal with the talent, then he’s in the wrong business.
fasteddie9318
@ricky:
I don’t know about their batting averages, but I wonder which one has the higher IQ?
@b-psycho:
It’s not weird. Turkish ‘c’s are pronounced like English ‘j’s. The Turkish ‘j’ is pronounced like a French ‘j’ or like we sometimes pronounce ‘zh’ in English.
neil
@J sub D: He’s exactly the same as Bill O’Reilly? You’re not terribly perceptive, are you.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Susan Ross:
This. Oh ever-so-fucking this.
If there are only three* people in your tribe, and when the wolves come to eat one of them, the first question you ask yourself is: “Am I being too tribal if I defend this guy despite the problem that he is an asshole, and after all I don’t care for the quality of his work, and really we could do better?“, THEN YOU ARE DOING TRIBALISM WRONG.
*How many actual liberal voices are there on TV? I count K.O. and Rachel, and on a good night maybe Ed Schultz.
GregB
MSNBC is reverting back to form. I mean they are the network that gave Michael Savage a platform.
They panicked over the elections and they are taking it out of the biggest name to show that they aren’t in the pocket of the left.
Brave MSNBC.
shortstop
@b-psycho: The Turkish “c” is a cross between “j” and “ch” and “e” is pronounced “ay.” Our week in Istanbul this spring was fraught with unintentional comedy on our part.
morzer
So, what happened to Sarah Palin and the principled defense of Freedom Inc.? Shouldn’t she be twittering right now and telling Olbermann not to retreat but to reload?
fasteddie9318
@Martin:
Except, who said anything about Olbermann’s first amendment rights? It’s a douche move by the douchebag who runs MSNBC, it reeks of a double standard and an attempt to can a guy that management has been out to get for a while, and oh, you know, the rest of us have a first amendment right to be pissed about it and decide to watch some other channel.
bemused
@Southern Beale:
Really? Rats. I love Chris Hayes. Very smart. Adorable, also.
Any word on who will be filling in for Olbermann?
fasteddie9318
@shortstop:
Closer to ‘j’ than ‘ch’–Turkish has a separate character for ‘ch’ (ç).
fasteddie9318
@bemused:
Dick Armey.
J. Michael Neal
@And Another Thing…: Oh, I agree that MSNBC’s action was dumb beyond belief. I’m just saying that none of Bullsmith’s huffing and puffing amounts to any actual evidence. His argument seems to be that, because no one explicitly said that Scarborough notified his bosses that he was going to make a contribution, back when they weren’t asked about it back in 2009, somehow constitutes evidence that he didn’t. It’s an idiot argument, and sometimes I can’t keep my mouth shut when someone takes several comments that were never related either temporally or on intent, makes creative extrapolations from subjects that the comments didn’t cover, and comes to a conclusion that someone has contradicted themselves.
kay
@neil:
He’s here to lecture us on partisanship. Again.
J. Michael Neal
@fasteddie9318:
Violet did.
Calliope Jane
Actually, KO donated to two winners out of three (or, one winner and one is currently winning as they’re finishing counting all the votes and her lead keeps increasing–and I say that as I knock on wood, spit, and spin around). That’s Grijalva and Giffords. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad and I’m certainly relieved.
These are also two members of Congress that had their respective offices attacked during the HCR uproar; Grijalva’s got so bad that he had to close the office in Yuma and someone still sent his office some sort of substance with swastikas all over it. Giffords’s opponent was apparently the guy salon.com had as their #1 scariest potential congressperson. So, yeah, very grateful for the donations.
FlipYrWhig
@b-psycho:
Ooooooooooooh! I was so confused the other day when he popped up, and I confidently said something like, “That’s Senk Eiger,” only to be told that it was some really similar-looking guy named “Jay.” Now it all makes sense!
shortstop
@fasteddie9318:
And as usual, he’s been drinking since 9:30 a.m., so get ready.
shortstop
I’ve been looking for that magazine cover and I can’t find it. Someone distract me with something shiny.
bemused
@fasteddie9318:
That actually would be fun to watch if he had to cohost with Joan Walsh (Armey once so charmingly told her he was glad that she wasn’t his wife) or some other feisty female or two.
shortstop
Ah, here’s something shiny: Cenk’s kid is named Prometheus Maximus Uygur. Awesome.
kc
@sven:
Oh . . . so Countdown is NOT an opinion program. Who knew?
How did that asshole keep a straight face when he said that?
lamh32
From Greg Sargent:
Did Keith Olbermann even violate NBC policy?
fasteddie9318
@bemused:
Sure, but he wouldn’t have to do that. It’s a Brave New World at MSNBC, dontcha know?
kc
Well, Somerby will be tickled pink.
shortstop
@bemused:
Watch that again and tell me I’m wrong about the 9:30 a.m. thing.
Mike E
@bemused:
Yes, eminently watchable.
Is it beer o’clock yet?
Nick
Clearly, if Obama used the bully pulpit, this double standard wouldn’t have happened
morzer
Anyone wonder just when Juan Williams’ name is going to be thrown into this discussion by the media?
beergoggles
Any network that employs that racist Buchanan is right wing at best. The rest just fits into place.
Larkspur
@And Another Thing…:
Exactly. This is what is so ridiculous.
Bullsmith
@J. Michael Neal:
Shit on a stick Michael, I’m not alleging any conspiracy, I’m comparing the way MSNBC reacted to Joe Scarborough’s donations versus how they reacted to KO’s donations. Those reactions are strikingly different. The issue of prior permission may or may not be an important distinction between those two cases, but MSNBC has failed to make that point and since it’s such a fucking obvious point that’s bad PR. This whole thing is bad PR. It isn’t my allegation that their employees who made donations to Republicans did not face sanction while the one we know of who gave to Democrats did, that’s simply the fact. The question is about why and my argument is there’s not really a good explanation available to them. As E.D. points out their action is stupid on it’s face, so the motives are of limited value since the stupidity remains. I’m not alleging an evil anti-liberal conspiracy I’m saying that it’s a) a self-inflicted PR disaster for MSNBC and b) that regardless of their motives there is an established image that Republican shills can do what they want but speak up for the left and you’re going to get punished for it and this event resonates pretty strongly with that.
And I suspect down deep you agree with all of that you just don’t like my tone. Which is fair enough, if true.
Mister Papercut
@shortstop: Nah, Keith is smart, but not, say, Dr. Maddow-smart. He’s also at least ten times more self-impressed than he needs to be (but then, which media prima donnas aren’t?).
PaulW
That Olbermann has to sit out with a suspension while others who did the exact same thing don’t receive suspensions… that smacks of hypocrisy, favoritism, and failure of the ownership/managers of NBC to equally apply their rules to ALL employees.
JenJen
@b-psycho: In a way, getting rid of Keith only makes sense if MSNBC is trying to clear some airtime for Cenk. Cenk’s new niche is attacking the President from the left, and so I can see where that might be a good move from the corporate standpoint.
It also makes me sick to my stomach. And finally, this theory of mine is a little tinfoil-hatty, but you just never know until it happens.
Rhonda
@Bullsmith:
I agree you you!!!
gbear
Crooks and Liars (link is in John’s list) has an interesting take on this. It looks like Olberman’s firing may be a result of Comcast’s purchase of MSNBC. (excuse the lack of links. I’m still at the office).
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
You can call him Ray or you can call him Jay…
kdaug
@batgirl: It’s legal in most states to fire someone for being gay, so I can’t imagine actual behavior would be something the courts wouldn’t uphold as a termination event.
I work in the video games industry, and we sign NDA’s as a matter of SOP. Break the NDA, you’ll be packing your desk in short order, First Amendment not withstanding.
licensed to kill time
Three hours old, this thread is >.< :::eyes glazed:::
morzer
@Dennis SGMM:
Cenk Uygur (pronounced “John Smith”)……
SteveinSC
@MattR:
What part of the word should do you confuse with the word must ? Take your asshole trolling somewhere else.
MattR
@kc: I feel like Ahab chasing Moby Dick, but that quote was made in 2009 explaining Scarborough’s donation and has absolutely nothing to do with Keith.
george romeo
i am deeply upset that Keith Olberman was suspended, I watched every night and will no longer be watching that station.
The owners have no balls and run at the sight of trouble.
bemused
@shortstop:
Hey, every time I’ve seen him, I’ve thought the guy was half soused.
In that video, I think he was past half. I hadn’t seen that in awhile but at the end I thought the guy was going to start sobbing. He and Boehner have a lot in common.
I still would love to see strong females reduce him to tears on tv more often.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@licensed to kill time:
There haven’t been any new threads put up. Obviously MSNBC execs deliberately planned the timing of this coup d’Fourth Estate to coincide with John Cole being on vacation. They fear the power of Tunch.
Bullsmith
@MattR:
We’re COMPARING the way Scarborough’s donation was treated in 2009 with the way KO’s donation was treated today. Is that so fucking difficult to comprehend?
Dennis SGMM
@kdaug:
I did IT work for medical practices, the last few years for a Beverley Hills cosmetic surgery practice. The terms of their NDA would have had me welded into a 55 gallon oil drum and then dropped off at sea for talking in my sleep.
Mattminus
@Bullsmith:
But you’re doing it without any knowledge of the particulars.
Hey, just like Michelle Malkin, why should we let things like facts or reality get in the way of a good ragegasm?
licensed to kill time
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
D’oh! ‘tiz a conspiracy! :::starts shaping tinfoil hat crunch squish:::
MattR
@Bullsmith: The comment I was replying to said in it’s entirety.
If kc did not think that the quote was made in reaction to Olbermann’s firing, what would the spokesman have to keep a straight face about? Saying that Scarborough is an opinion program and not news?
shortstop
Jesus Christ. Is it not likely that these unanswered questions about whether Scarborough explicitly asked permission, etc. will be resolved in the next 12 hours? Until then, is it really necessary to fucking endlessly litigate this based on assumptions?
bemused
@JenJen:
I had the same thought. Please not Cenk but I have little hope they will choose anyone better either.
shortstop
@JenJen: Yikes, is that what he’s been doing? I haven’t read/seen him in ages.
JenJen
Via Twitter, @brianstelter reports that MSNBC news anchor Thomas Roberts will fill in tonight for KO on “Countdown.”
Errrrr, who? Just put on a “Lockup” repeat and be done with it, MSNBC.
@bemused: Glad it’s not just me. And, @shortstop, yeah, he gave one helluva rant yesterday on Dylan Ratigan’s Shitty Show saying it’s time to go to war with the Obama White House. And earlier today, Cenk was on MSNBC ranting about how he’s not a Democrat anymore. I mean, OK, I get it, whatever, who cares? But I just see something nefarious in all of this. I’m a cynic-defeatist. It’s just how I roll.
kdaug
@Dennis SGMM: Yup. You’ve got the right of free speech, but not the right to a job.
scarshapedstar
@General Stuck:
Totally. For example, if the Republicans steal a presidential election and then leverage their coup d’etat into two wars and a new Gilded Age.
The people would never stand for that.
Calouste
@JenJen:
“Coffeeparty” in 2012 to attack the Dems from the left.
Considering the actual success of teaparty candidates this year (farily rubbish), that would be a good plan for Rove.
Just run ads during the primary season against the Democratic mainstream candidate and get some Alvin Green type candidate to win the primary, than close the money tap. A lot cheaper to run ads during primary season than during the actual election season as well.
nepat
@kay:
It’s amazed me that no one’s figured Huffington out yet. Her naked opportunism is just so, well, naked. She’ll take whatever political position will make her the most money. Riding the Dem wave for cash and TV time was her greatest success, but she’s been at it for a long time – including marrying a guy for a couple of years who she thought was her ticket to Washington. I remember a while back when she was pretending to be an environmentalist and got busted flying around the country in private jets and driving gas-guzzling SUVs.
piratedan
@ricky:
at last check it looks like both AZ Congressional candidates won re-election, that would be Giffords in CD 8 and Grijalva in CD 7.
General Stuck
@scarshapedstar:
Now, come on, don’t introduce a straw man into my argument. My comment was specific to economic issues and favoring corps TO THE POINT OF LONG TERM diminished living standard and even much more obvious and craven catering to the rich than we have seen thus far, and it can get much worse, and I think will. If the money spicket keeps wingnuts in power they will rightly get the blame for it. I know the electorate is dumb and un attentive, except when it comes to their financial well being, and I think it will suffer more than anything we can imagine right now, regardless of who is in power for the short and medium term, but with wingers able to buy elections with their cash, that will go critical mass and explode fairly quickly, and a threshold of tolerance will be met.
JenJen
@Calouste: Bingo!! And for me, it’s just that, you know, I’ve seen this movie before, and it doesn’t work out in the end the way Cenk thinks it will.
ricky
@MattR:
Try convincing someone John Stewart said nothing about Olbermann at his rally or that Rahm never called anyone retarded. Both these facts can be verified on the internet, which Al Gore invented, BTW.
ricky
@piratedan: Thanks Pirate Dan. Good to know Keith’s average is not below the Mendoza line.
che
Chris Hayes tweets that his not hosting tonight had nothing to do with his own campaign contributions. It was his own decision not to sub for Keith tonight.
chaseyourtail
I really couldn’t care less. I used to really like KO but I’ve lost a lot of respect for him these past couple of years. His incessant sniping and griping at Obama since the Health Care debacle has only helped the Repigs take power. With friends like Olbermann and dumb-ass Ed Shultz complaining and criticizing all the time, who needs FOX? Constant attacks from the so-called left hurt the Democrats more than being hit from the right.
No, this doesn’t bother me at all. Now, if MSNBC gets rid of Rachel, then we have a big problem.
chaseyourtail
@kay:
A thousand amens to this.
AhabTRuler
@MattR: Sorry, I don’t chase dicks, I just come here.
chaseyourtail
Arianna Huffington is a duplicitous shrew. She is exploiting the gullible liberal masses to make herself even more filthy rich than she already is. I can’t turn on MSNBC with out seeing her phony, smug mug espousing her populist shtick. Why can’t the gullible liberal masses see through her facade? Oh right, cuz they’re gullible.
If I could have one wish, it would be to walk up to Arianna and slap that phony-ass, perma-smirk off her stupid face.
JenJen
@chaseyourtail: I happen to do the best Arianna impression you will ever witness.
And yes, of course, I’m available for parties.
chaseyourtail
@JenJen: I’d love to see it. I may have to give you a call.
shortstop
@chaseyourtail: That is nonsense. Jen is going to post her impression on YouTube so everyone in the BJ community can enjoy it. Right, Jen? ;)
Anne Laurie
@kay:
Friend of ours knew Arianna back when they were both in the Cambridge debating society. When she first surfaced in American politicomedia (any remember the John-Roger cult?), he said that Arianna was never on anybody’s side but Arianna’s, and that no matter how eloquent her speeches, she could not be trusted “further than you can drop a champagne-dipped strawberry down her cleavage.” Nothing in Ms. Huffington’s subsequent career has ever caused me to doubt his assessment…
Tone In DC
@Mattminus:
If everyone (who fits YOUR definition of an asshole) got fired for being “insufferable off camera”, then no one would work at Fox News. Not a one.
Susan Ross
@General Stuck:
I’m 47, and I’ll be dead long before that happens.
Triassic Sands
I’m sorry, but implying that Conway is progressive is a bit of a stretch, wouldn’t you say? This is the guy who was boasting about his zeal for the War On Drugs.
Stillwater
Haven’t read any comments, so don’t know if this was already mentioned, but…. NBC isn’t making a principled decision here. They already had their reasons, and this is simply the pretext for firing Olberman.