I’m feeling lazy today, so I’m just reading Sullivan, and he has this Limbaugh quote:
What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country.
Presumably he means the Democrats, because I doubt he means that shooting Democrats is supported by the GOP. What does this even mean?
They’ve been speaking in tongues so long that I think they’ve shifted to a new dialect and I can’t interpret them anymore.
*** Update ***
I should probably note, in fairness to our media overlords, that I tagged this post assholes. So it is important to recognize David Gergen’s point that both sides use this over the top rhetoric. Rush told millions of people that an entire political party is supporting a mass murderer, and I called him an asshole. You can see how it is the same thing, can’t you?
Danny
Limbaugh was basically saying that a major political party (the Democrats) would throw their entire institutional weight behind proving that Loughner wasn’t responsible for his own actions. It’s BS but that’s 90% of everything Limbaugh says.
Basically, this is Rush playing the victim card which should actually be reserved for the people who were, you know, shot.
Sirkowski
It’s the Burning of the Reichstag.
Darius
More context (via HuffPo):
“What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country. He’s sitting there in jail. He knows what’s going on, he knows that… the Democrat party is attempting to find anybody but him to blame. He knows if he plays his cards right, he’s just a victim. He’s the latest in a never-ending parade of victims brought about by the unfairness of America…”
Revolting stuff.
JPL
You’d be wise not to try to interpret Rush. What I thinks it means is that he is not toning down his vile and he has issued a big fuck you to a large part of the country. I’m sure many libertarians and repubs will denounce him.
edit…the repubs will hide…i was being sarcastic
meh
yes, and your boy sully was linking to Hugh Hewitt as a very reasonable voice on the shootings.
simon
He’s saying it’s the Democrats’ fault, he’ll let his listeners fill in the blanks
Nemo_N
It’s impossible to tie the ramblings of a madman to events in the real world.
Sometimes, we just have to accept that they are just crazy.
David Fud
I think this deserves a “I reject your reality and substitute my own” tag for Limbaugh’s sheer head-in-his-butt-ness.
jinxtigr
I guess you could invoke ‘projection’ and say that the guy’s worldview compels him to view all assasination as planned and sought-after political action.
i.e. this was a political assassination of a sort, but it wasn’t THE one Limbaugh wants- hell, it wasn’t even Pelosi, it was an AZ congresswoman and a nine year old kid. So he insists that THIS one was not what the Republicans wanted, so therefore it was somehow what the Democrats wanted.
Is he even up to speed with Tea Party stuff or is he still seeing it in D vs R terms? At any rate, his view is clearly that major political parties assassinate each other now, which is kind of revealing.
sukabi
he’s stoking the fires… and you do know what he means… who is he talking to? His listeners are primarily repubs… he’s not going to blame them or himself… and mostly it’s a deflection from all the other crazy shit he says.
beltane
I just saw the Limbaugh quote posted on FB. He is indeed claiming that Loughner is smiling because he has the full support of the Democratic party. How long before we see a poll that says 60% of Americans believe the Democratic party instigated the shooting spree?
Our media is evil and dangerous.
Rosalita
He means the DFH’s will try to protect him for the bad criminal justice system and the death penalty…
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Shorter Rush: Shoot more Democrats.
stuckinred
@JPL: You happen to hear Boortz today? It was Obama and Ayers and they are coming to take talk radio.
matoko_chan
They’ve been speaking in tongues so long that I think they’ve shifted to a new dialect and I can’t interpret them anymore.
i thought that was wat ED is for. Our Captive
IdiotExpert on glibertarian/conservative “thought.”Joseph Nobles
This was Rush’s response for his name finally being named by Sheriff Dubnik yesterday as one of the more unhelpful voices out there today.
WereBear
Gee, I was putting the discretionary budget on “Limbaugh continues to be an A$$!!”
but the odds were low. Real low.
beltane
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: That’s about it.
BH
Let’s see. Loughner used a semi-automatic pistol with extended magazine (which is in lock step with the NRA/GOP position on guns), and he shot a Democrat that supported the health care bill. If Limbaugh is admitting that the GOP is completely behind Loughner, this is a big story.
General Stuck
Liberal plot to defame gawd fearin’ peace lovin” republicans.
Isn’t everything always this in RushWorld?
edit – or the Oxycontin Gods whispering sweet nothings in his ear.
Legalize
He means that Democrats are trying to rob Real Americans of their bodily fluids. Whatever the fuck he means, you can bet your life savings on the same thing coming from the lips of elected GOPer officials by the end of the week, and other Teabagger talking-heads by tomorrow morning. Or sooner, depending on how much water they think they’re taking on.
stuckinred
@Legalize: Ask Col Ripper.
Sue
Who is Representative Giffords going to blame when she is ready to have a say in this? Herself?
Is Limbaugh saying it’s Giffords fault? She’s a Dem, for heaven’s sake.
Felonious Wench
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
I’ve been waiting for Rush to tell his flock what to say about the shooting. Waiting on Beck to weigh in also so that can hit the Facebook pages and Teh Twitters of our conservative friends and family members.
kindness
Not to be evil, but…I can’t help feel an odd contradictory pull about the ole oxycotin addict. I think Rush does liberals a favor by saying what he does. He makes it easy to be able to point to him and say ‘look, see what he is saying’. By the same token, if someone shot & killed him tomorrow, (for the record I don’t want to see that) it wouldn’t bother me at all.
Under normal circumstances, responsible adults in politics and in the media would say ‘well Rush has just gone off his meds or something ’cause he’s just crazy talkin’ now’. But these times, they ain’t normal. Palin, Beck, Rush….no one can say anything bad about them, no matter how factual it is, for fear of raising hell with the republican/msm crowd.
Sad but true.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
He’s trying to say that the Democrats don’t really believe Loughner is guilty; instead, the violent rhetoric on the right caused it. This sets up a couple of things:
1. Limbaugh’s accusing the left of saying the right did the shooting, not Loughner.
2. If he gets an insanity defense, Limbaugh can talk about how our system never punishes those that truly commit crimes.
I’ll give him bonus points if Limbaugh talks about how poor Tom Delay was treated.
This plays into the 9/11 ploy as well. I certainly can believe he is guilty – though probably insane – and believe that the rhetoric caused it. I also could believe that our actions overseas angered Muslims and believe they had no right to attack us.
suzanne
@matoko_chan: I am enjoying the irony in watching matoko_chan criticize other people for “speaking in tongues”.
Krystal
I am more suprised that Johnny Weir is gay than I am that the GOP has determined that it is the real victim of this tragedy.
Basically, according to Limbaugh, no one is ever allowed to ask the GOP to stop doing anything. In other words, “you’re either with them or against them.” Even a highly experienced law enforcement official whose job is to keep people in his jurisiction safe should have his mouth taped shut, rather than be able to do his job. Otherwise, there will be too much GOP butthurt.
PS
The trouble is that even if Rush’s audience shrinks to the dead-enders, he’s still picking from 28% of the whole population, and that’s a lotta loonytunes. But he may have overstepped. Certainly the rest of the right are panicking.
Pangloss
Kind of like Beck urging Palin to get bodyguards in the wake of the shooting… Becuase THEY’RE the REAL victims, as always.
beltane
@kindness: Rush does not do liberals or anyone else a favor. He has mainstreamed ideas that used to be confined to institutions for the criminally insane, and he is the whip that beats the media into submission. There is no silver lining to this creature’s career.
Disraeli
Rush is just trying to control our grammar.
And as Legalize (General Ripper, is that you?) so astutely points out the precious bodily fluids of all Americans are also at risk.
I blame the French.
Felonious Wench
@suzanne:
FTW
You Don't Say
Rep. Foxx is saying he’s the ‘liberal of liberals.’
My hope is they push this absurdity so far they sound ridiculous to more and more people.
I think Palin and her ‘surveyor’s symbols’, etc., is losing her more believers.
Edit: I mean who but the most ardent magical thinker can sign on to Beck’s fear that the republic would fall if Palin were hurt?!
singfoom
Why did the democrats put the gun in that man’s hand and point it at Giffords?
Why did Giffords put her head on that mans gun?
Jesus,
You can debate the contribution the rhetoric had on this man’s actions, but doing so doesn’t immediately mean you’re absolving him of all guilt.
It goes like this:
Sane Person: “I think that this man was very disturbed and it seems that based on some of the disturbed things in the record that he said that he might have been egged on by the violent rhetoric on the right wing, like talk radio, etc…”
Nutter: “Oh my god, you’re BLAMING AMERICA WHY DO YOU HATE US??”
Reason, how the fuck does it work?
Explanations or digging for understanding != destruction of personal responsibility, sheesh.
Comrade Javamanphil
@Nemo_N:
I agree.
Oh wait, you probably weren’t talking about Limbaugh.
hildebrand
Shorter Limbaugh – “Republicans are always the victims!”
licensed to kill time
Whatever Rush is saying at any given moment, it all boils down to “Dems/liberals BAAAAD! Me/Conservatives GOOOOD!”
Grunt, bloviate, chuckle.
WyldPirate
OT:: Speaking of crazy, I just saw a clip of Glen Beck’s radio show on Hardball. It’s surreal how much Beck’s intonation of his nonsense sounds like Jim Jones circa 1979 of Guyana “Kool-aid town” fame.
@Sirkowski:
With Limbaugh, every day is Burning of the Reichstag day and Nancy Pelosi has already written the Enabling Act.
MikeJ
At Cleek’s I used the phrase, “the right shoot people, the left complain about it. Everybody’s guilty.”
The Dangerman
Sounds to me like one dog whistle in the midst of white noise, i.e. blah blah blah blah Democrats suck blah blah blah Democrats suck blah blah blah. The noise doesn’t even have to make sense any longer as long as he gets in the digs to the Democrats. How is this talentless fat fuck making all his money again?
trollhattan
@General Stuck:
I was just pondering how Rush might respond if tox screening showed the shooter was wasted on Oxy, when I read your comment. Soc1alist medicine! Obamacare(tm)!
For a corpulant fuck, Rush is sure flexible when it comes to contorting literally any news event into something to blame on Democrat(s) and Librules.
stuckinred
@You Don’t Say: This goofy bitch is the head of the education committee!
SiubhanDuinne
Here’s how Jesuitical Rush is: the one time he refers to that “one political party” by name, he calls it “the Democrat Party.” So if anyone calls him specifically on this, he can say — in literal truth — that there is no such thing as “the *Democrat* Party” and the proof of this is that members of the Democratic Party are forever saying “Hey! There’s no such thing as the Democrat Party!” Therefore, Rush never said that the *Democratic* Party was trying to protect or support Loughner. Why, nothing was further from his mind . . . .
(How do I know about Jesuitical arguments? Get me loaded some time and ask me about my ex.)
Mike Kay
I just asked my dog, and even she couldn’t decode Rush’s dog whistle.
stuckinred
@The Dangerman: Exactly, it doesn’t matter one bit what he says.
joe from Lowell
Don’t talk about Rush Limbaugh’s feeble deflections from the criticism about the right’s violent, gun-obsessed rhetoric. Changing the subject to how outrageous are his deflections is what he wants.
Just keeping making those criticisms.
dmsilev
I want to see every GOP rep on TV being asked whether they repudiate Limbaugh’s statement.
I also want a pony.
dms
Shinobi
This post makes a really interesting point about how we are talking about Tone, when really the issue is content. The crazy blatantly false stuff that republicans spout these days is much more objectionable than their violent rhetoric when it comes down to it. And the lies are more likely to lead to crazed violence, than some tasteless graphics. (Seriously if death panels were real we’d need to start worrying about old lady terrorists.)
hueyplong
If cognitive dissonance hasn’t become a problem by now, what makes anyone think that Limbaugh’s current stream of buzzwords won’t be swallowed by his listeners? “Rush was so brilliant today I couldn’t even follow his logic.”
FlipYrWhig
It’s “Democrats are trying to blame _you and me_, which gets the actual shooter off the hook, which is what The Liberals always do, blame society instead of advocating Personal Responsibility. Thus by seeking to explain Loughner they’re actually covering for Loughner.”
Of course when Newt blames Susan Smith or Andrea Yates or Columbine or Virginia Tech on the effects of liberalism, that’s different, because, shut up that’s why.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
It most certainly is not the same thing! Rush would never use gutter language on the radio!
stuckinred
Mathews has the sheriff on and the poor dude can’t get a word in edgewise.
Brachiator
You have to give Limbaugh credit. He is a professional piece of slime. Instead of dealing with the calls to dial down the rhetoric, he instead shifts the blame. The problem isn’t the vicious rhetoric coming from conservatives, or even the shooter himself. Oh, no. It is the Democratic Party, libruls, and (inevitably) activist judges.
He is a piece of work.
Meanwhile, even the president of Fox News, at least pretends to want to dial back on the worst rhetoric, while still claiming that Democrats do it, too.
harlana
I just got done watching a clip on Tweety where Rush says Democratic leaders hoped for this tragedy as a way to shore up Obama’s ratings.
Also, Matthews is interviewing Sheriff Dupnik who is kicking @$$!
The Other Chuck
Rush needs to troll, troll, and troll some more in order to keep ratings up. He’s a political shock jock, and nothing more.
There’s simply no point in analyzing any of it. He makes hate sounds and gets money. It’s just conditioning by now.
Fuck U II: The Duckening
Where have all the honest Juicebaggers gone?
They should stand proudly with the centrists, as they themselves have noted on several occasions that there is no difference beween the far-right and the far-left.
stuckinred
@harlana: When tweety would shut the fuck up for 2 seconds.
Rabble Arouser
@kindness: Wow, really? I think Rush is a fat blob of uselessness, and I would love to see him fade away from the public sphere, but to say you wouldn’t be bothered if someone shot his fat ass? I don’t know where you attended kindergarten, but I was taught not to solve my problems with my fists.
drunken hausfrau
for a tiny moment this weekend, I thought maybe we had come to a precipice and that people would step back from it.
silly me. full speed ahead.
the shooter was a marxist/liberal who was planted by our Kenyan usurper overlord so he (the hitler/stalin usurping Kenyan) could try to pass strong gun control laws which mandate taking the guns away from crazy people (and we know who that is, don’t we? the other major political party!).
Gravenstone
@Darius: And Limbaugh, like all Republicans, knows everything there is to know about victimization, eh? After all, they proclaim themselves “victims” every fucking time they open their venomous yaws.
joe from Lowell
@stuckinred:
Par for the course. Did you ever see his “interview” with Richard Trumka? “Blah blah blah, third-generation miner, here’s what I think…”
Tweetly likes to use people with street cred as props for his monologues.
DonkeyKong
Hey, anti lynching laws were just a liberal plot to deprive southerners of rope. Good all american rope used to lasso cattle, build a tire swing and auto-erotic asphyxiation. Limbaughs just giving a history lesson.
JPL
@stuckinred: I guess he didn’t get my email that quoted twain.
During your CNN appearance you spoke about free speech. The attempted assassination of a Congressional Representative should not be made into a partisan issue. Whether some speech is over the line is a worthy topic though.
In the words of a great American author I leave you with this thought:……………………………………………………………………………..
“It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either.”
Mark Twain
must of chosen to ignore it.
Cermet
Sorry Cole, but they are correct – you see, shit mouth told millions of his listeners who each just have at most one working brain cell his perverted point of view, and you, on the other hand, have many thousands of millions of brain cells – see, your opinion far out numbers all his listeners and himself in brain power put together!
Mike Kay
5 Stages of Grief:
1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Barganining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance.
What we first saw from the wingers was outright denial that they engaged in any violent rhetoric (they were surveyor’s sights).
Now they’re angry for being called out.
The next step, establishment wingers (george Will, David Brooks) will be bargaining that at least this derails a sure general election loser like Palin or that at least this didn’t happen on the eve of an election, which would be catastrophic.
You Don't Say
@harlana: Limbaugh was unreal. Claiming Obama and Dems are meeting now to find ways to exploit the situation.
stuckinred
@joe from Lowell: Yea, he did it constantly with the Swift Boat Vets.
merrinc
@You Don’t Say:
Virginia Foxx is an excellent example of “Peak Wingnut was a Lie.” My husband and I donated $150 to her middterm opponent and we’re not even in that district. Billy would have made a great representative.
Has Rush Limbaugh ever said ONE thing that makes sense? Just one?
KG
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): only because he doesn’t want to pay the FCC fine. Now, if the FCC were disbanded…
WyldPirate
@Brachiator:
Do you really doubt that the operative word with Ailes is “pretends”? The interests of Murdoch, Ailes, Limbaigh and Beck is served not by tamping down the rhetoric but shifting the approach to it until things cool off in a few weeks.
This whole Giffords incident will be forgotten in a couple of weeks as soon as the media finds another shiny new bauble to chase. Then it is back to the same 24/7 hate-mongering in a couple of weeks.
stuckinred
@WyldPirate: Couple of weeks, are you on a media blackout?
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Brachiator: The other side? So he admits that FOX is on a side? I mean, we all knew that, but when did they officially give up being “fair and balanced”?
maus
@kindness:
Which makes it easier for the media to propagate his dumbshit ideas, thanks. I’d prefer people whisper this shit sight unseen.
Addressing them publicly DOES NOT WORK if he media just regurgitates their propaganda uncritically.
Mike Kay
Last night on CNN, Bill Maher said the gun lobby should be renamed the assassin’s lobby, and Gergen was OUTRAGED! – OUTRAGED! by the statement. Sadly, Gergen didn’t show that emotion over the deaths in Tucson.
Allan
@suzanne:
I’m just relieved to see matoko_chan posting, because that finally proved to me that matoko’s not actually Jared Loughner.
Xecky Gilchrist
@merrinc: Has Rush Limbaugh ever said ONE thing that makes sense? Just one?
He did acknowledge, back in the 90s, that the War On Drugs unfairly targeted minorities. Of course, his solution was dumb, that we should start imprisoning more white drug users (excepting himself): “What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we’re not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too.”
KG
@merrinc:
Um, calling Donnovan McNabb overrated? Granted, he then went into the “the media wants a black quarterback to be successful” and all hell broke loose.
AxelFoley
Who didn’t see this coming?
WereBear
Oh, man. Had to genuflect in front of the Insight.
There are the hardcore Rush fans, who are the hardcore Republicans; they are just Hardcore, mmmm ‘kay?
I’ve hear that so many times. When, if, they thought for themselves, they could have lots of insights!
But that’s too scary.
I’m +5 now, and it’s hard to keep track. But please, if those poor people only knew the money people like Rush are sucking out of their sorry behinds to keep them clueless, the world would be different.
Elizabelle
Charming little blurb from Limbaugh’s website.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/about_the_show.guest.html
Okay, fellow Rush Deniers.
Who has got an up to date list of Rush’s advertisers?
PS: Doctor of Democracy my ass. First do no harm.
SiubhanDuinne
@stuckinred #53:
Someone with a high tolerance for eye-glazing boredom should do a study that involves a word-count of *x* Hardball transcripts, to measure Tweety vs guests.
I’m in for Tweety at 4-1.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@KG: So technically right, but for all the wrong reasons. Blind squirrel…
Just Some Fuckhead
Weird how the logic gets twisted so the guy killing Democrats is supported by the Democratic party while the folks actually calling for “second amendment remedies” and sporting signs such as “We can unarmed this time..” and “liberal hunting license” and engaging in over the top eliminationist rhetoric for more than 20 years now are just innocent bystanders.
It would be nice if one of these cowards would step up and say, “Yeah, he doesn’t appear to be one of ours but he’s doing exactly what we’ve been calling for. Thank you Mr. Loughner.”
Brachiator
@WyldPirate:
Uh, no. It may not be a hot media story after a time, but it will not be forgotten.
Villago Delenda Est
What someone needs to do with Limbaugh is to drink his milkshake, and by that, of course, I mean hack his body to tiny, more manageable bites to be fed to a school of hungry sharks off the coast of the Dominican Republic.
scav
@Elizabelle: Reading that, I’m beginning to understand the profitability of Nigerian 419 scams.
WaterGirl
@stuckinred: Which dude can’t get a word in edgewise? Matthews or the sheriff?
The Dangerman
@Elizabelle:
That would explain the girth, I suppose.
SiubhanDuinne
@Barb (formerly Gex): O/T been thinking about you all day, hope you’re doing okay. Hugs to you.
Earl Butz
@stuckinred: No shit, Ailes will find himself a dead blonde…oops, that might not work out so well right now. Hopefully for his sake some pedophile will bury a child under a trailer.
Sko Hayes
@Brachiator:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Intellectual arguments from Faux News “guys” (and gals, presumably)? That would be something they’ve never tried before, and the total of 6 brain cells shared between the hosts of “Fox and Friends” would burn out just trying to figure out what “intellectual” means.
It’s like asking miniature poodles to run the Iditarod.
And now that I think about it, aren’t intellectuals a bad thing (elitist and all that)?
beltane
@Elizabelle: Rush Deniers? Is this the modern day equivalent of people who denied the divinity of Christ? I assume they envision the same fate for us neo-heretics.
The right-wing is a f*cking cult, and the media is working overtime to force conformity with this cult.
stuckinred
@WaterGirl: The sheriff
Pongo
Again with the false equivalences? It’s true that both sides have used regrettable language, but there is simply no comparison between hard righter’s being armed at campaign events, proposing 2nd amendment solutions and following through with acts of violence when a vote doesn’t go their way and the rhetoric of the left. We’d all be better off if both sides would just knock it off, but there is a major difference between purposely putting a graphic with crosshairs singling out specific individuals while the offices and homes of Congress members are being attacked (burning a Congress person in effigy, throwing bricks through windows and cutting gas lines to their homes) and after being begged to tone it down before someone gets hurt and engaging in campaign jingoism. Both may be ill-advised, but they are not the same and that distinction needs to be made.
AAA Bonds
I’m very glad that we’ve reintroduced the concept of “white people problems”. It’s something that almost everyone in the United States should wrap their head around.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@SiubhanDuinne: Thank you. There’s a certain amount of peace knowing that I made the right decision. Still hard, but there’s some comfort.
KG
@Barb (formerly Gex): I was just reading through some of the stuff on it again. He basically said the media gave McNabb too much credit (ie – he was overrated) and that he thought it was because they wanted to see a black quarterback succeed. He also said that the defense deserved more credit. If he would have left the “social concern” bullshit aside, he’d probably still be on Sunday Countdown.
Sko Hayes
And what you quoted, John, is only one among many stupid things that Rush said today. From Media Matters:
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201101110033
Mnemosyne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Sharks are already an endangered species and now you’re proposing that we poison them? And you call yourself a liberal!
(Edited for better grammar)
AAA Bonds
@You Don’t Say:
Foxx is a nut and an open racist. If she sat down with Loughner and he was lucid they’d probably have a lot of common ground on the monetary system.
WyldPirate
@Brachiator:
Well, time will certainly tell if the Gifford’s shooting is forgotten.
I think it will fade, just like the initial shock faded from other similar events. It will be a footnote and a brief background clip for the next bit of crazy from the right. I also can’t see us going any longer than sometime until the middle of next year before we have another serious bit of right-wing motivated crazy.
Southern Beale
Radio station in AZ ran this unfortunate “Rush Limbaugh Straight Shooter” billboard …
Mike Kay
the wingers are also freakin that President Obama was asked to speak at the memorial
Alex S.
I think it means that crazy shooters can do whatever they want, Rush will always blame it on liberals.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mnemosyne:
ROFLMAO!
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
@KG:
I’ve laid out the train of logic before but I’ll repeat it.
Rush called McNabb, to paraphrase, a token.
Anybody who follows football somewhat closely knows that McNabb is not a token. The objective measures that are popularly used to judge quarterbacks are stats and wins, and McNabb has solid credentials in both.
Rush is actually somewhat knowledgeable about football.
The best conclusion, then, is that Rush was deliberately making racially inflammatory remarks which he knew to be untrue.
Martin
I think the Westboro baptist church dream scenario is about to unfold. I don’t see how the proposed legislation to stop them is constitutional. My guess is the public is sufficiently ramped up that if Westboro shows up, that there will be an altercation, and the lawsuits are going to fly fast and thick.
Brachiator
@Barb (formerly Gex):
Good catch. I wonder if he will issue a clarification later. And the deep cynic in me thinks that Ailes is just providing cover for Sarah Palin and other Fox commentators, who won’t have to issue apologies for anything that they have previously said.
@Sko Hayes:
Great image. Maybe the Fox people are delusional and have actually started to believe that they are running a news organization?
Sadly, I am already seeing a counter-offensive from some Southern California talk radio hosts: “Now that we know that a crazy guy was responsible, how dare anyone tell us to tone down our rhetoric?”
Just Some Fuckhead
This sort of reminds me of when Rush said the media was biased for Donovan McNabb because Rush doesn’t like black people and doesn’t want to see them do well.
AAA Bonds
@Brachiator:
That’s exactly what I think sucks. Make the fight about Loughner, and the fight becomes about how much a crazy guy responded to non-crazy people. That will never convince anyone to tone down anything: it just invites the self-victimizing right to self-victimize.
Isn’t this rhetoric reprehensible anyway? Isn’t what we’re really worried about reflected in those meth-fueled bomb and shooting plots that keep cropping up?
bemused
@stuckinred:
Oh gawd, he is a dumb patoot. His favorite thing is bleating all over everyone else trying to talk not listening at all. He only stops to take a breath when he knows it’s time for a break and they have no chance to say anything and he has know idea what he has missed. What kills me is that grin on his face that says, “Wasn’t I fantastic? Damn, I’m good!”
Bobby Thomson
If by “it” you mean Gergen, then yeah. He is an asshole.
KG
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): he didn’t call him a token, he called him overrated. At the time, Steve Young said that McNabb needed to run the offense better and Michael Irving said that Rush had a point.
Here’s the clip, for the record:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGiTv_xRd5A
Mike Kay
I bet the RNC/Rove did some polling and it turned out bad. so to stem the bleeding, they’ve decided to deflect by attacking.
it’s an old trial gimmick: when the facts are against you, call the other side names and hope you can confuse and distract the jury.
AAA Bonds
@Brachiator:
Looking back at the archived front pages of FoxNews.com that I’d been avoiding over the last few days, it’s clear this has occurred.
However, it’s been counterbalanced by a series of stories that ensure the Fox spirit remains alive for its viewers, including
1) an entire story accusing Democrats of making political hay out of the shooting, complete with a “diagnosis” by Fox’s reality-show doctor team
2) an entire story about how Obama is getting better at handling crises because supposedly when the Fort Hood shooting happened he fucked up and everyone got mad at him or something (this is a super old story they were pushing when they were trying to make everything Obama’s Katrina/My Pet Goat/etc.)
So still in their own dimension. What’s super-fun is to read their neutral-fading-to-approving stories about Wikileaks during the Scientology leaks.
Villago Delenda Est
It really would be unfair to single Gergen out as the worst of the assholes in the Village, because the Village is the most perfect storm of assholes since Versailles in the latter half of the 18th Century.
I mean, there are so many to chose from, picking a “worst” asshole would be really a serious mental exercise that would require multiple adult beverages of your choice to recover from, and we really shouldn’t be going there, although you folks in the Eastern and Central Time zones are operating in the Happy Hour window, so feel free.
AAA Bonds
@Mike Kay:
Looking back at Fox News over the last few days, I don’t think they did any polling, or had to. The whole history of the current Fox News version of the Republican Party is defending by going on the offensive. They’ve been doing it (see my reply to Brachiator above).
Their very first story on Giffords was headlined with a smiling Boehner giving her the oath in a picture that emphasizes him more than her. They were already situating themselves to be her best friend if need be, depending on how the situation turned out.
My favorite is still the “Obama is improving because after the Fort Hood shooting the entire country hated him because of how poorly he handled the response”. It’s a great example of how the Fox News newsmaking model is premised on fantasy scenarios that don’t bother to conceal their origin: resentment over things that actually happened.
KG
@Mike Kay: when you have the facts, pound the facts; when you have the law, pound the law; when you have neither, pound the table.
mclaren
It’s perfectly clear what it means. Rush Limbaugh is saying that the Republican party endorses murdering 9-year-old girls.
Obviously Loughner has no support among Democrats, since he gunned down a Democrat. Therefore the only possible thing Limbaugh could mean is that Republicans wholeheartedly advocate Loughner’s actions.
AAA Bonds
@Villago Delenda Est:
Hey, don’t discount the media during Vietnam. Take the Gulf of Tonkin incident: their incompetence and ass-kissing was so total that the only papers reporting the facts accurately at the time were left-wing radical rags. Every other source repeated outright fabrications as facts, and some even invented evidence above and beyond the shoddy case presented by the government (sound familiar?)
trollhattan
@Mike Kay:
Man, first Taibi and now Maher. I’d love to do Gergen’s bookings so I could set a few more Love Connections for him.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
@KG:
But he did call him a token and you noted it yourself. “The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well.” That’s an accusation of tokenism.
Mike Kay
President Obama’s speech will be at 8 PM Eastern, tomorrow night. I’m betting all the broadcast networks, EXCEPT Fox, will carry address. And they’ll say, they already had a commitment to “American Idol” that they couldn’t break.
Brachiator
@WyldPirate:
Sigh. Here is the deal. Obviously, all of the people killed or injured will continue to impact the lives of their loved ones and those who cared about them. I heard a news story today about how the school mates of the child who was killed are struggling to deal with the aftermath of what has happened to their friend.
And Arizona politicians are genuinely reeling from what has happened. Just on a human level, the ramifications of this tragedy are enormous.
Giffords’ husband is an astronaut, scheduled command the last Space Shuttle flight. God knows what will happen here, or what blogger jabber will attend the considerations of what will happen here.
So here, I am not really concerned about what happens when the media attention has turned away.
But let’s look at some of the national political considerations. A federal judge has been killed. Do you think that the Congress is going to suspend their crazy obstructionism and help Obama appoint a replacement and other judges that are desperately needed? Or will this soon spark a new round of nasty rhetoric?
And sadly, very sadly, if Congresswoman Giffords cannot resume her duties, the political fallout is going to be spectacular.
The media attention may fade, but the ramifications of this awful act may ripple out in ways that we can only imagine, and some of the possible results are not very pretty.
merrinc
@Martin:
TPM says the AZ legislation is modeled after Ohio legislation that passed muster with the federal courts. IANAL, so I dunno.
I hope you’re wrong about it provoking more violence. As much as I’d like to see the Phelps clan get a well deserved ass-kicking, that little girl’s funeral is not the time or place.
Mike Kay
Anderson Cooper is dumber than his mom’s designer jeans.
Last night he engaged in a variation of “both sides do it”, saying “it’s always been this way”, citing the hate speech hurled at Lincoln. A dumbfouned Bill Maher looked at him said, “didn’t he end up getting killed?”
Really, Cooper should stick to modeling. I mean really, what’s next, hiring Heidi Klum to anchor Nightline?
Brachiator
@Mike Kay:
I would watch that. As supermodels go, Klum is all right. I’ll even give her props for this:
Supermodels for Obama. Heh.
YellowDog
Two things.
Limbaugh is so far over the top on this issue that this morning Don Imus called him “a dumb bastard.” And Imus said this while his show was broadcast on FBN. Imus has to play nice with his Fox overlords, but he regularly calls Palin a moron.
To borrow from Rachel Maddow, it’s not rhetoric to call an asshole an asshole. It is just stating a fact.
alwhite
Of course your calling Rush an asshole and his claiming the Dems support killers are equal. I mean who the hell is this Rush guy? You on the other hand are a blogger with a readership in the several dozens!
asiangrrlMN
@YellowDog: I, too, will be stealing that bit from Rachel. Facts matter. She was really good last night.
Rush’s comment shows that even he knows this looks bad for him and the Republicans, so he is scrambling. He’s just throwing out chum to his listeners–which is all they want, anyway.
WyldPirate
@Brachiator:
Look, I take no pleasure in making the prediction I did, Brachiator. It doesn’t make me happy at all. I just don’t see the right wing reining in the crazy for very long. I especially don’t see it happening as they gear up for the 2012 election in a year and it looks to the right as if Obama may be re-elected. I think the craziness will be ramped even higher than in 2012.
First, it’s a tragedy that any of the people were killed or injured in Tucson. But there have been three other federal judges that have been assassinated since 1979. One by Woody Harrelson’s father. Unrelated, perhaps, but I doubt that many outside of the legal community could tell you this fact.
My point? I don’t see it really slowing down the Republican’s obstructionism regarding the judiciary or anything else. They have labored for 30 years to stack the judiciary just like they have labored at the local level to stack school boards on up. They may tone down the rhetoric some, but there are many ways they can drag their feet and obstruct. Even worse, I expect the nasty rhetoric to come back as well.
I’m sorry I can’t be an optimist and that what I said provoked sighs from you. Of course the lives of those killed and injured have been irrevocably changed. Many thousands more lives of American citizens lives were changed on 9/11 and in the years since. Has our political rhetoric improved since then? No. Has the state and outlook for the grand experiment that is our Republic and its citizens improved much since then? No.
I can see this event triggering change, but I don’t expect much change for the good. My glass is half-empty. I’m sorry about that, too, but I think we are too far gone as a society.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Legalize: Not exactly. He means they’re trying to adulterate their bodily fluids. It’s why he goes to Costa Rica… to purge the adulteration of his bodily fluids.
polyorchnid octopunch
@beltane: I’m with you on that.
Brachiator
@WyldPirate:
Our views may not be as far apart as I thought. Thanks for the clarification.
Mike Kay
@Brachiator: I apologize. I went to far by comparing Heidi to that himbo Cooper. Heidi actually has a brain.
Libertini
I don’t get the Gergen hate. I read his blog post, and didn’t interpret it as saying “Both sides do it.” Stating that the political environment is toxic is not the same thing as “Both sides do it.” My takeaway from Gergen’s post was
1) Don’t jump to conclusions (regarding specific circumstances OR causation)
2) Our political environment is toxic (does anyone deny that?)
3) We can do better
I tend to agree.
As far as specifics, he calls out Palin for whipping up potentially violent undertow during the 2008 campaign. No mention of any on the left in an equivalent (or falsely equivalent) scenario. And when he talks about the Bush years, he says the left “was intensely alienated” using passive voice. He says that now the right has “become increasingly vitriolic.” This is passive voice, but the language still puts the onus for the behavior on them.
I tried putting a chip on my shoulder and re-reading the entire post, but I still can’t come up with “both sides do it” from what I read as an eloquent statement of both regret and hope over sad circumstances. What am I missing?
Here is the link, browser issues prevent me from adding the html: http://gergensvoice.blogspot.com/2011/01/no-time-for-finger-pointing.html
Mike Kay
@asiangrrlMN:
This.
You can smell their desperation, especially has it relates to the viability of their Queen.
Nellcote
@Sko Hayes:
It’s beyond disturbing that he turns most everything into a sick sexual metaphor.
WereBear
Word. This must be why he gives me the creeps.
polyorchnid octopunch
@AAA Bonds: The thing that’s hardcore is… there’s a huge swathe of the US population that understands that very well already, numbering tens of millions at best, and maybe up close to a hundred million.
Mike Kay
This is the hate monger’s full statement
This is how they tried to shield bush.
They used to say if you criticize bush then bin laden gets a happy.
Here, he’s saying if you call out hate speech (including rush and palin), then the murder gets a happy.
it’s as silly today as it was back then. no, it’s sillier.
Beulahmo
Limbaugh’s radio rantings sure don’t hold up to any amount of examination, do they?
How does he reconcile his claim that Loughner likely doesn’t know about Sarah Palin, since “…all of his friends say he didn’t like things political,” when the very next thing he utters assumes Loughner has such political savvy that he is capable of manipulating it to his legal advantage? Somehow, in Limbaugh’s reality, Loughner is apolitical enough to be oblivious to Palin, Limbaugh, and politics; at the same time, Loughner is smugly expecting to beat the rap, because “…Mr. Loughner knows is he has the full support of a major political party in this country…” Whaaa???
Of course, this self-contradictory crap is swallowed uncritically by his own audience, but I have a feeling Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, etc. are no longer performing only for their cult followings — they’re being scrutinized. I could be wrong, but I think they’ve just lost the long gamble they’ve been playing. Demagogues have been gleefully inciting and cashing in, betting that the general public would continue to let them get away with it. But they’ve always counted on being able to step back and claim their innocence any time things blow up, because — hey — it can’t be proven that they’re directly responsible for violence erupting. Except…..
The video clip of Rep. Giffords speaking about Palin’s PAC campaign poster and remarking that there’s a danger associated with violent imagery — it is absolutely bone-chilling. The optics of it — the visceral, awful creepiness of the victim urging caution to her defiant, reckless opponents — are powerful enough to speak for themselves. To make matters worse, Giffords is widely seen, by Democrats and Republicans, as a moderate, reasonable, effective public servant. She is well-liked and respected by her colleagues, regardless of party affiliation. So they won’t be able to get away with insinuating that Giffords was just a cynical partisan, simply looking to “attack” the right wing. Besides, if they were to try that while Giffords is literally fighting for her life, the general public would consider it unspeakably callous. These cynical jackasses are really in a bind. View the video again, through Limbaugh’s/Palin’s/Beck’s eyes.
Sniff….sniff…?? Do you smell that? I think it’s desperation.
For now there isn’t sufficient perspective to know for sure — we’ll need some time to evaluate how this plays out in the public over the next weeks and months — but I think we have just passed the social moment of inertia for the current crop of right-wing demagogues. I certainly hope so.
rikyrah
nobody can really be surprised by anything the fat racist dopehead says, can they?
maus
@Just Some Fuckhead:
obviously he’s a liberal plant so we can enact GUN CONTROL
Quiddity
No fancy analysis is needed. Take it literally:
Not that Democrats are looking to blame others (which was the thrust of other Limbaugh statements), but that, independent of other motivations, Laughner is supported by Democrats.
Glen Tomkins
His point seems to be that the Dems, by blaming conservative thought for influencing Loughner, somehow lift at least some blame from Loughner himself, thus Dems are his best friends.
Of course, as is typical of Limbaugh statements, this one contains falsehoods spinning within falsehoods, like some weird parody of the vision of Ezekiel.
Actually, our side has been sadly reluctant to blame conservative thought for Loughner’s actions. Sure, the anti-govt ramblings on his website do not read like the products of a well mind. Gee, ever listen to Beck? Loughner’s syllogisms are a model of spare rationality compared to Beck’s chalkboard “proofs”. And all the themes, all the turns of phrase, are drawn from the wingnut catechism. You got you your Posse Comitatus, you got your Paulite gold buggery, you got your Consitution in Exile — all under one roof.
Sure, it’s crazy. But it’s Right. The two are not in conflict, as the Right is crazy.
But most of us seem to be going with the idea that he did it out of crazy, despite the fact that schizophrenics tend not to take politics for their delusional content, and tend not to offer violence to anyone, and really tend not to become violent against people outside their orbit, as a means of advancing some political agenda. True Believers, in contrast, do tend to focus their delusional thought on politics, and do tend to acts of violence to further their cause. Unlike schizophrenics, whose delusional world tends to be intensely private, True Believers most definitely have a Cause greater than themselves. There is more of McVeigh than Hinckley about Loughner, yet we are strangely eager to make him into a Hinckley.
Of course, legally, Loughner’s best chance at avoiding the death penalty, the thing that might, legally, allow him to deflect some blame, is indeed this idea that our side is pushing, that Loughner did it out of the crazy. The other side is pushing this explanation even harder, of course, but most of us are pushing right behind them.
In contrast, if you accept the version I think closer to the truth about the murders, based on what we know now (Yes, the more recent revelations about the disruptions at his school, actually create for the first time some reason to think he might suffer from some diagnosable illness. But CPS, or any condition that might get him to an insanity defense, still seem to me unlikely.) — that Loughner acted under the influence of rightwing ideology — that is absolutely not any sort of legal exculpation. McVeigh had political beliefs as arguably crazy as the day is long, but he was not a schizophrenic, and the craziness of the political beliefs was no exculpation whatever.
bob h
Here’s how much support this Democrat gives him-I’d like to see Arizona execute him with a 9mm pistol shot to the forehead.
NonyNony
@bob h:
Killing him in the state he’s apparently in now is like putting down a mad dog.
As for myself, I’d like him to get the medication and whatever psychological intervention it takes for his brain to realize exactly what he has done.
And then I’d like to see him sit in a jail cell for the rest of his life with the full knowledge and understanding of exactly what he did.
But then I’m a malicious bastard who doesn’t believe in an afterlife. So if there’s any justice at all in the universe it has to happen in this life. And putting down a mad dog isn’t justice – it’s just something that has to be done.
Ryan Colpaart
As much as people want to draw a direct connection to this political assassination attempt and the heated rhetoric that we’ve grown so accustom to in this country, in the final analysis it may have had a small affect but the signs point to Loughner being a very sick individual:
Jared Loughner : Why Did He Do It?