Expect things to be a little sports-centric here (at least from me) for the next two weeks. With that said, I’m watching Mike and Mike in the Morning and I don’t think I have ever seen a controversy like the current Jay Cutler flare-up. When I was watching the Packers and Bears yesterday, I have to admit that when I saw Cutler yanked, my first thought was “They’d have to drag Ben or Hines from the field with a bloody stump or they’d still be on the field.”
Having said that, I’m kind of shocked that all these washed up former pro players (Sanders, etc.) are tweeting that Cutler is a pussy. Did they not watch any of the regular season? Do they not understand knee injuries?
The whole thing is kind of crazy. And now, after viciously attacking the guy, the fact that he got emotional about being attacked like this is more “proof” he is a wimp.
What a bunch of assholes. I’ll take the word of Brian Urlacher over any of the loudmouth ponces questioning Cutler.
*** Update ***
here is tough guy Deion Sanders being dragged down from behind by a… punter:
DougJ DougJson
Weird to hear Deion talking this way. He was probably the least physical player in the history of the NFL.
meh
seriously – not like getting yanked was his choice. Geez, people are acting like he just raped someone…oops wait…where is ben anyway?
bmchgo
As a sad Bears fan on this Monday morning, I agree. Urlacher left no doubt in my mind in the postgame news conference. That being said, some Chicago Bears fans are going to be merciless. Some are already calling for his replacement with Caleb Hanie.
Anywho, props to your Stillers! We’ll be rooting hard for them here in Chitown.
timb
@DougJ DougJson: My reaction exactly, Doug. Sanders was a fantastic corner, but I’m not sure I ever saw him make a tackle. Certainly, no pulling guard ever saw Deion, unless he was looking on the ground
Xboxershorts
That was his left knee. It’s the plant and turn knee when a rt handed QB throws the ball. Fuck Sanders. On top of that, Heine was the most effective QB Chicago had yesterday. What fucking game were those assholes watching?
danimal
Acknowledged Cutler-hater here. My team’s guy would have played.
ETA: link also shows that Sanders pops off quite a bit. Quelle surprise.
Jim
The underlying logic of the Cutler criticizers seems to be that selfish behavior (staying on the field when a physical problem prevents the player from maximizing the team’s chance to win) is preferred to the non-selfish option. Now I guess I know why so many of those people love Brett Favre.
Dave
What’s driving this is that Cutler is not liked AT ALL across the NFL. He is seen as arrogant and someone unwilling to take blame. That’s why everyone piled on when he came out of the game.
And I have to say…unless that knee was shredded, he could have stayed in. Anyone remember Jack Youngblood? He played the entire 1979 playoffs with a broken leg.
timb
@meh: As I saw Ben run for a 12 yard gain on 3rd and 12 with a bruised thigh, all i could think was “there are two things that dude is good at…..”
It’s a good thing that one of those is more respected and rewarded than the other! That salary really needs to be in a trust or he’s gonna lose it after he retires from football and is just a professional groper
gene108
Deion Sander is questioning a guys toughness? The guy hated contact. Hell, he was the only player on a defense who never tackled anybody and still got to play. He was just that good a cover corner.
Rommie
Is it a weird day when the only team in the NFC North who bothered to seek out a decent backup QB is the Lions?
Cutler’s questioned manhood aside, the Bears had Todd “Washed up like fresh laundry” Collins as the backup QB. Talk about gambling on the health of your starter. If the Steelers give Rodgers another concussion, they’ll eat Matt Flynn for a victory dinner.
timb
Re: the video, to be fair to Deion, Hunter Smith is the rare athletic punter. When he played for the Colts, the paper said he ran the 4th or 5th best 40 on the team*
*If I remember correctly
Keith G
It seems to me that Cutler is not on most people’s top 20 of Favorite Guys Playing Quarterback List. So there are those who will take this occasion to deliver a whack.
gene108
I don’t know, they have a young QB, who seems to be injury prone. Maybe they knew what they had going into the season.
daveNYC
Agreed. They seem to be forgetting that the point is to win the game, not show off how awesome your pain threshold is.
He wasn’t playing effectively with that injury, so he got yanked.
jon
Can’t anyone say “The better team won today” and move on? And questioning a man’s toughness should be reserved for training camp no-shows and for sports where the players aren’t wearing armor. If my knee is hurt, the last place I’d want my contract to be is on a field with guys who tackle by smashing into it with their shoulder pads and helmets… accidentally, of course.
Jay Cutler probably got his team into the playoffs, just as Brett Favre did for his team the year before. One went too far, one stayed within his limits, but both shouldn’t be questioned for their toughness. (And even as a Favre fan, I love the guy but only question his selfishness. Not his will to win, which is obvious. That he forgot how to combine the two was Minnesota’s problem and affects his legacy only a little bit.)
Punchy
John, with all due respect, this isn’t your team. You probably never watch the Bears. You likely know very little of the backstories.
Cutler has been this way–petchulant, arrogant, aloof–for quite some time. Probably forever as a pro. Maybe he was injured, maybe not. The very fact that his “couldn’t give two-shits” attitude in nearly every game is what engenders such disbelief and suspicion. But even IF he was injured, why the hell was he not rallying the troops? Why wasn’t he on crutches, dammit, and encouraging/instructing his backups? The image of him sitting alone, on the bench, staring into space, completely devoid of any care that his team played well or poorly, is what feeds this visceral dislike by most Bears fans.
And if it’s not clear already, most of the NFL has picked up on this smug shitbag’s schtick, which is why they’re tweeting the crap they are. Piling on? Maybe a bit. But there’s probably no one in the NFL more requiring a radicial attitude check and bitch slap that this clown.
Just Some Fuckhead
There is no crying in football!!! Ever since we got rid of Vermeil, I mean. And Favre.
Steve
Is it a weird day when the only team in the NFC North who bothered to seek out a decent backup QB is the Lions?
Its hard enough to find a decent starting QB. A “good” backup is a luxury/matter of luck.
Also, Flynn played pretty well against the Pats.
Nick
I’ve had a sprained MCL. It hurts to run. Depending on the grade (1, 2, 3 being a complete tear) there’s an increased danger of incurring an ACL tear, as the MCL is a stabilizing ligament. But if I was playing in a championship game, I’d have a pain killer injection and brace the knee up, and take my chances on the ACL. Cutler was being paid to read a defense and throw, not run.
Steve
Deon and the media did the same thing to LT a few years ago when a serious knee injury put him out of the AFCCG. The fact that LT is a running back who had never missed a game due to injury in 7 seasons never played into their analysis of his supposed “toughness”.
Foxhunter
@Punchy:
This exact same image is what fed the visceral dislike by most Bronco fans, too. I bet Scott Hastings rips him a new one on Denver radio today.
Legalize
If there’s anything stupider that the Beltway Village, it’s the Village attached to professional athletics.
Culture of Truth
I’m kind of shocked by the reaction, too. I don’t know what happened, but how likely is it that a professional player, with a chance to go to the Superbowl, just decided, “oh the hell with it, I’ll think I’ll rest for 40 minutes.” I don’t buy it.
The Moar You Know
Deion Sanders is a showboating piece of shit who never made a tackle in his life.
There may be some arguments to the criticism of Cutler, but I’m damn sure not going to listen to them when they come from a washed-up overrated attention whore of a corner whose main accomplishment on the field was wearing the largest pair of diamond stud earrings ever seen in the NFL.
Nick
Off the record, several teammates looked at Cutler amid the postgame wreckage and shook their heads.
“I aint’ gonna say nothing,” one Bears player said privately, “but I don’t see a brace on that knee. Do you?”
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/gay-jay-cutler-knee-injury-chicago-bears-nfc-championship-012311
Face
Cole, read this. Will tell you what most of Bears fans have to deal with.
SFAW
To fill that hole, the Packers have asked Boehner to join them on the sidelines at the Super Bowl. (Good thing it’s not being played in New Orleans, people would think it’s Katrina II.)
I’m a little surprised to hear Sanders questioning Taylor’s – or any linebacker’s – toughness. Plus, except for his run-ins with the law, I thought LT was pretty much off the football radar.
Foxhunter
@SFAW:
I assume Steve was referring to Ladainian Tomlinson, not Lawrence ‘Plea Bargain’ Taylor.
You Don't Say
I have to mute the TV whenever Deoin Sanders opens his mouth. That said, not a big Cutler fan either. But to paraphrase Boomer you don’t question a teammate’s, uh, balls. At least publicly, I would imagine.
trevorb
As a Bronco fan, I will always hate Cutler. So this felt like a bit of a vindication, even if McDaniels is an asshole.
Bobby Thomson
@Face:
I see. So he doesn’t give reporters good copy and they retaliate by giving him bad press.
Makes me kinda like the guy.
John Cole
@SFAW: They are talking about Tomlinson, not Taylor.
Villago Delenda Est
@Legalize:
This is an incisive comment, although the football village is about a game, and the REAL Village is about national politics that affect all of us in very real ways. Which makes it much, much worse.
That aside, Joe Theisman was such a wuss when he took that hit!
morzer
I am sorry for Cutler, since he seems to have a fairly painful injury, but this day has been coming for a while In some ways, it’s surprising it didn’t come sooner. He’s worn out his welcome with a lot of people, and inevitably people will react to their immediate disappointment rather than asking about his overall performance and potential. That said, there is a rather nasty cottage industry in tearing down big players in the NFL – the recent attempt to damage Aaron Rodgers comes to mind.
SFAW
Of course. But there’s only one LT.
Tomlinson was a great RB, and is still pretty good, but I don’t think he’s changed the game the way Taylor did. (It saddens me that he’s turned out to be so messed up, off the field.)
Paul in KY
I read where John Wall has asked to be fined anytime he makes ‘bad facial expressions’. He knows that a leader has to keep his negative emotions under wraps. I think Mr. Cutler’s salary would be gone by the end of the year, if he was fined like that.
He was known as a dickhead when he was at Vandy.
mantooth
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/athletes-can-play-through-those-injuries-says-man,6894/
SFAW
Yes, John. Give me a little credit for having a clue, will you?
Foxhunter
@SFAW: I agree. There is only one LT. One messed up trainwreck, to be sure, but he defined LB play in the NFL.
Tim
Never fails to amuse how in the macho world of sports so much of the chatter is really just nasty gossip, character assassination, unfounded rumor mongering, personal insults, etc.
They don’t “like” someone, so they attack as a group.
In many ways, these athletes, especially the former ones, are junior high school mean girls.
Cole, you need to cancel your Twitter account. What a useless phenomenon it is.
SFAW
Foxhunter –
Now you’ve done it. Incoming!
Paul in KY
@morzer: A couple of years ago, when I was bussing thru Wisconsin, I ate at a steakhouse & at next table these 4 women (all rabid Packers fans) were going on about how much they disliked Aaron Rodgers & how they wish Bret was there.
Besides marveling at how much into football they were (not usual for a lady, IMO), I was thinking ‘this Cleveland Browns fan will take Mr. Rodgers any day of the week’.
Poopyman
@SFAW:
In a violent sport where multiple concussions in a career are typical, a whole lot of guys limp away messed up.
Not that I know of any correlation between shots to LT’s head and his recent behavior, but you gotta wonder.
taylormattd
I’m actually listening to Hugh Millon here on the local sports radio show in Seattle talk about how he rewatched all of the footage of the game, and is positive Cutler didn’t need to go out. He’s not really calling him a “pussy”, but he is comparing him to others who he is convinced would have played through whatever Cutler has going on; he points to how Philip Rivers continued to play, even on a torn ACL.
Now I tend to agree with you, I find this mostly to be some kind of insane macho posturing. Not to mention the fact that we have no fucking idea what is wrong with the guy yet.
But anyway. I have to say one other thing, and I hope you don’t ban me for this, but I really don’t want your Steelers to win. No offense, but I still hate you fuckers for 2005, when the refs stole the superbowl for you. :)
Foxhunter
@morzer:
I wouldn’t call Jay Cutler a big player in the NFL by any stretch. Arm cannon, but ineffective.
If he weren’t such a public douche to everyone, then the tear down wouldn’t be so. Of course, someone linked to a Rick Reilly column upthread, and he isn’t exactly one I’d take to heart. He tends to get his fee fees hurt when star atheletes don’t butter up to him, so his disdain for Cutler is no suprise.
Poopyman
@Paul in KY:
Is it the cardigan that turns you on?
Joel
Only a fool would question the physical toughness of a professional athlete, never mind a professional football player. However, I think there’s an element on mental toughness at play here. Cutler was performing badly and, from the viewer’s perspective, what better way to escape the humiliation of a bad performance than by attributing it to injury? It’s very similar to Lebron James’ elbow during the playoffs against the Celtics last year.
I do think it reflects poorly on these retired pros that they feel the need to pile on. But such is the world.
SFAW
I would think he’d have ended up like Ali, rather than how he is. But I’m not a neurologist/neurosurgeon/phrenologist/rocket surgeon, so that’s basically pulling it out of my … uh … whatever.
And, in case there’s any question: “Ali” refers to Muhammad Ali, f/k/a Cassius Clay, former boxer.
Face
@Bobby Thomson: I’m pretty sure an implicit part of a professional athlete’s contract money is marketability; the ability for the team to recoup some of that money thru jersey sales, increased attendance due to likeability, etc. The fact that Cutler is such a open, unabashed prick to the press is off-the-charts arrogance and a poke at the Bears management, IMO. He almost relishes his dickhead persona. If I were Bears management, I’d be furious.
Villago Delenda Est
It’s very true that if you don’t treat the sportswriters the way the sportswriters want to be treated, they will savage you without any mercy.
Just look at all the crap Barry Bonds goes through because he refuses to give sportswriters what they want.
morzer
@Paul in KY:
Indeed, and this Dolphins fan would welcome him with open arms and free coffee, which, considering how I love my coffee, is a big thing.
I must say, one of the most satisfying things in recent days has been the sight of Patsies’ fans losing it and going feral on the Jets, after they got their entitled asses handed to them in the play-offs. Quality bitterness is so hard to find.
Foxhunter
@SFAW: I would think the blow did/does more damage to LT’s current mindset than the concussions.
Then again, in Any Given Sunday he did need get to play in that final game to collect his $1 mill bonus.
Maybe that wasn’t such a good move, after all.
Poopyman
@SFAW:
I went off Googling for “Mike Webster mental”, and this is one of the things I found.
SFAW
Ah, he was just whining because they had treated his father like shit when Bobby ended up not being the next Willie Mays. I mean, it’s not like he cared about his father.
Villago Delenda Est
@Joel:
Well, these guys still have egos that need feeding, and commenting to the press like Sanders was doing is a way of feeding that ego that no longer gets regular nourishment. The media guys are more than happy to give them some ego-boo in exchange for quotes to generate interest, which in turn makes the Ferengi suits running the show happy. Ratings, eyeballs, whatever.
morzer
@Foxhunter:
There’s a difference between big player and great player, surely? Cutler isn’t a finished or elite QB in my mind, but he’s good enough, playing behind a poor O-line, to get the Bears to within one game of the Superbowl, and that ought to get him a fair amount of credit.
geg6
@Jim:
THIS.
Jeebus, people. If the guy can’t play his best or even second best hurt, what’s the point of keeping him in there?
geg6
@Punchy:
Or perhaps he was sitting there, pissed off about not playing and knowing that the whole situation would be framed by his critics in exactly the way it is being framed.
Paul in KY
@Poopyman: That and his calm speaking voice. Really sooths the young players when they freakout in the huddle.
He uses that cardigan instead of a flak jacket. helps his mobility.
SFAW
Poopyman –
What a depressing read. I knew about Webster, but had forgotten the details. I don’t think it’s quite the same as with LT, since I haven’t heard about the dementia (although it’s not like I track him on news feeds), but it’s worth considering, I guess.
sixers
I guess Phillip Rivers doesn’t understand knee injuries either since he played the whole second half of last season with probably the same injury as cutler. If you can ride a bike on the sidelines you can play better than Todd Collins and some guy with 6 career passing attempts. He wimped out.
geg6
@Paul in KY:
You’ve obviously never met any women from Pittsburgh.
Foxhunter
@morzer: You inferred that the press likes to ‘tear down big players’ and Jay Cutler hasn’t shown me anything that would elevate him to that status since he came into the league. And based on what I have seen, he never will be much. There’s a shitload of mediocre fill-ins at the QB slot throughout the league. To me, Cutler is no more than that and an improved offensive line in Chicago isn’t going to help the Cutler. He’s prickly, shuns leadership duties. My beloved Falcons ran through the regular season at 13 – 3 and shit their pants when the buzz saw of Green Bay hit them. Matty ‘Ice’ (stupid nick, BTW) played horrible. We came within two games of the SB, doesn’t mean I have to give Ryan credit. When it really counted, he played poorly.
I give credit to Chicago for making it to the conference championship game, but several teams have done that with shitty QB’s. See Trent Dilfer.
morzer
@Foxhunter:
Well, if you have a personal beef with Cutler, go ahead and vent. I am not a fan of his, but trying to deny the man his skills and achievements is pretty cheap. He’s clearly a good deal better than a fill-in QB, and that fact ought to be obvious to anyone who watches the NFL regularly.
MBA EyeDoc
As a fan of the Pack, I have no problem with the outcome of the game yesterday. As a Vandy grad, I have some affinity for Cutler as well.
But as a physician, I find it amazing that anyone can question the toughness of a quarterback who plays with Type I diabetes. He has to be aware of his body and what his blood sugar is at all times. With the adrenaline and other surging hormones that go hand-in-hand with playing the sport, I am sure that he has had instances where his blood sugar dropped in front of his teammates. They see him checking his blood sugar between series and making adjustments. Diabetes is a tough disease but to manage it successful on that type of stage buys him points with me.
The fact that he has managed to make most people forget that he has diabetes means he is managing it pretty well. I know some of the teammates may not appreciate the way things went down yesterday but given what we do know about physical issues that he plays with every day, it’s hard for me to doubt his heart.
And remember this is coming from a Green Bay fan…
Paul in KY
@geg6: I guess I haven’t (I figured I’d take some joshes for that comment). I can take it though :-)
These ladies were doing some pretty intricate diagnoses of blitz pickup, checkdowns on the receivers, etc. Sounded just like a group of dudes dissecting a player.
I’m thinking I would like to meet some members of the fairer sex from Pittsburgh. Go Steelers!
PTirebiter
Apparently real Americans wouldn’t want to have a beer with Jay Cutler. That’s what really matters, forget the facts.
Forget the beating he took in Dallas before he limped back on for the second half and kicked our asses.
Paul in KY
@Foxhunter: The way Aaron Rodgers was playing that day, would have been hard for any team to have beat them.
He looked like a faster Joe Montana (on the best day Joe ever had). I can give no higher praise.
gene108
Taylor was doing drugs for a long time, even as a player. It has nothing to do with head injuries, it’s purely about the fact he was a great player, which doesn’t make him a great person by default.
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
@daveNYC: Nor was he playing effectively before the injury. That, combined with the book on Cutler, equals “quitter” in the minds of many. I won’t second-guess Jay Cutler, but I’m also not so quick to dismiss a lot of his colleagues.
Silver lining is, without doing anything, Cutler effectively upgraded his sobriquet from “Cuntler” to “Quitler.” So there’s that…
Culture of Truth
I think from now on I’ll be rooting for Cutler.
morzer
@MBA EyeDoc:
Well said.
elmo
@danimal:
Fellow Charger fan and Cutler-hater here. The guy’s a punk, and I take nothing but joy in his fall —
but I was reading earlier that the go-to medication in situations like this, cortisone, is a no-go for him because he’s diabetic.
But I don’t care, I’m still revelling in his troubles.
morzer
@Paul in KY:
I dunno, dude. From what I can figure, Pittsburgh is entirely populated by large white dudes with large white cats who are obsessed with football. The dudes, that is, not the cats. Well, maybe the cats feel strongly about it too. Who knows?
Foxhunter
@morzer: I really don’t have a beef with Cutler, and I’m not trying to be a dick. I just don’t think he is much better than average.
Career Stats
I you can look at these stats and honestly tell me this proves he has skills, then so be it. But at the end of the day, a QB has to have his team behind him as well as the stands. Cutler is not very endearing to either, regardless of what Urlacher said post game. Not one camera shot showed Cutler’s teammates rallying to support him and give him any of the proverbial helmet taps. He will bounce around from team to team and someone will think they can polish his personality. Not gonna help.
Kudos to him for his charity and abilities to battle through with type 1, and i’m not questioning his toughness. I just don’t think he has the mindset to be a leader and his stats aren’t teh awesome.
Foxhunter
@Paul in KY: Rodgers put on a clinic that day. Laser beam accuracy and our undersized and unskilled secondary was the death knell. This should be an exciting Super Bowl.
It was painful to watch as an ATL fan, but an probably one of the best games Rodgers will ever have. It was perfection.
Paul in KY
@Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods: How about ‘Quntler’?
gwangung
Given the necessity of QBs escaping a pass rush, this doesn’t seem like a very astute comment.
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
@geg6:
Well then you suck that up and get involved in some fashion, or leave early. Geez, you get paid millions to play a game most would gladly pay to play. Maybe sometimes your fee-fees don’t matter f-a to someone who’s shelled out either for tickets, a replica jersey, or even cable TV so he or she can watch the damn games. Dimaggio used to fret that there might have been a fan who didn’t see him at his best–and he was a total dickhead. Cutler just doesn’t get it or doesn’t care, and neither possibility says very much good about him.
Paul in KY
@Foxhunter: Is he like the Jeff George of his generation?
Paul in KY
@morzer: I think the cat (and dogs) probably want the Steelers to win, as it puts John in a good humour & thus: More food on the plate!
Foxhunter
@Paul in KY:
Jeff George. Wow. I’m going to have to take tylenol PM tonight.
That comparision is very good.
morzer
@Foxhunter:
I’d say for a relatively young QB playing on teams without particularly good O-lines that his stats were pretty solid. Not perfect,sure, but definitely up to snuff.
rapier
Cutler has his faults but Manning or Marino would have been answers to trivia questions if they had been Bear QB’s. The football gods have declared excellence at quarterback for the Chicago Bears verbotten.
I’ll let they guy with testosterone levels permanently off the charts and one the toughest SOB’s and biggest jerks in the universe have his say on Cutler toughness critics.
“(Expletive) them, it’s (expletive) stupid,” Kreutz snapped. “I could see (his knee) wiggling when he was walking back in the huddle (late in the second quarter).”
(The collapse of the middle of the Bear offensive front line suggests Kreutz performance isn’t often that great. His contract is up but I think they are afraid to fire him. I would be to)
Mike Lamb
@Punchy: Punchy gets it.
timb
@Legalize: THIS. Sports “journalism” has always sucked, but I have a hard time thinking what we have now is not a nadir. There are almost no intelligent voices talking about sports. hell, the closest thing to intelligent sports commentary is Gregg Easterbrook and he’s a douche AND an idiot
Tim
@P
:
I’d bet good money these ladies were of the Sapphic variety. Most of my gay female friends are avid football fans.
I guess you could go ahead and meet them, but they probably wouldn’t be interested in what you’re interested in. :D
timb
@Tim: Taibbi quoted someone recently as noting that the sports page is just a mix of Glamour and a tabloid for straight men. So much gossip and rumor and feting the alpha, while picking on the omega….just a bunch of little girls
John PM
My major problem with the entire Culter situation is that I am not even certain when he was injured. Has he said anything about exactly when he got hurt? To be honest, I have been avoiding all the post-game analysis since the end of the game, because the ultimate point is that the Bears lost to a very good Packers defense. Cutler seemed out of it before the injury and even if he had not been injured he would not have been able to lead the Bears back for the win, given the way the Packer’s defense was playing. It seems to me that all the people complaining about Cutler not coming back to play are assuming that the Bears could have won if he had played the entire game. I think this is a faulty assumption.
Having said all that, however, it did not look to me that Cutler was seriously hurt. My wife tore her right MCL three years ago during a dance class and could not walk for days after that. She had to have one of her friends drive her home from the class because she was in so much pain. Now you will have to take my word for this, but my wife has a very high pain threshhold (as opposed to me, a wimp through and through). I am withholding final judgment until we hear about test results on Cutler’s knee, but for now, based upon what I saw, I have to question the seriousness of the injury. At the same time, I think the whole issue is irrelevant because there was no way the Bears were going to win that game yesterday. And frankly, I am more likely to question Urlacher’s toughness because he got arm tackled by Aaron Rodgers on that interception. That is my two cents, for what it is worth.
timb
@Joel: See Roger Clemens
Paul in KY
@Tim: Just my luck. Sometimes, I’m out at an event with some of my male friends & we are doing some girl watching.
Seems like 1/2 the time, when I point out a girl & say I think she’s cute, my best friend retorts ‘oh, she’s gay’.
Has gotten to be an inside joke between us.
Maybe they were bi?
NobodySpecial
@John PM: They found the play going through it. He was hurt at 4:06 remaining in the second quarter, you can see it in his reaction.
As far as wimpiness, the dude has absorbed 56 sacks in the regular season alone and missed exactly 7 quarters of football during that time. That’s not a wimp. That’s pretty goddamned tough, especially when you consider what he tore was the MCL on his plant foot. Try playing NFL quarterback with a knee that will go on any contact and try and torque it every time you throw a ball. Not. Gonna. Happen.
EDIT – I’m a Lions fan who thought Orton got a raw deal in Chicago, so I’m a bit biased against him. But he’s got more guts than a slaughterhouse floor if he tried to play on that. About as much brains, too, but those aren’t necessary to QB in the NFL (see Young, Vince).
geg6
@Tim:
Dude. You even more obviously have never met any women from Pittsburgh. Female football fans are all lesbians? Seriously? Guess the entire female population of Pittsburgh (or at least 90% of it) are all gay. Wait! That means I’m gay! Someone better tell that guy that gave me a ring this weekend. He’s sure gonna be shocked.
Anton Sirius
@Poopyman:
Of course Exhibit A for concussions and subsequent violent behavior is Chris Benoit, but you’re not supposed to mention his name in polite society.
4tehlulz
I was listening to the radio broadcast of the Bears game; the radio talking heads, for all intents and purposes, were calling him a weak-willed pussy before they knew shit about what was wrong.
There was no way they weren’t looking for an opportunity to do that from the start. No fucking way.
Punchy
Link to this diagnosis please?
daveNYC
He might not be very skilled, and he can also be a craptastic leader and an emotional cancer in the locker room, and those are all perfectly valid things to throw at a player, but dogging on him because he didn’t play through an injury that had knocked thirty points off his QB rating is a different thing entirely.
Cris
Most of my gay female friends are ardent Democrats, yet I don’t think the converse follows.
General Samsonov
I’m just going to note that many posters in this thread seem to think you can read everything into a couple 3 second camera snippets of Cutler on the sideline.
morzer
@Punchy:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/24/report-cutler-has-mcl-tear/
BTD
@DougJ DougJson:
This.
AxelFoley
@Culture of Truth:
So are you gonna change your username to ‘Cutler of Truth’?
I couldn’t resist.
Murc
Ignoring the entire debate over whether Cutler sucks or not, my initial reaction to this:
Was ‘If that’s even partially true, Ben and Hines are crazy men who should be locked up for their own safety and that of those around them, and Cutler is the only one with a lick of sense.’
That is all.
piratedan
Cutler is a not a standard personality type for a pro quaterback. As such, he comes off as aloof and inaccessable. The media hates this and as such, are more than willing to put him on a cross for their punditry pleasure. Okay, so one anonymous SOB on the team questions him not having a brace on his knee, bfd, if you’ve ripped or torn something may not imply that you can’t walk, but short quick movements that call for a change in direction are an entirely different motor skill, as is using your legs to throw the ball downfield. Locker rooms are like classrooms, not everyone gets along and in the aftermath of a bitter defeat, sometimes things get said that shouldn’t have been said, it happens. As for Deion Sanders, he was fast, he could cover receivers and he could return kicks, but you never saw Sanders play through a hamstring injury either.
MBA EyeDoc
@geg6:
Congrats! Your weekend must have been quite exciting.
@Punchy:
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/27225724
(I can’t seem to hyperlink this)
So it is official — Cutler was actually injured. But since most of this probably stems from whether people like him or not. Whatever…
On our home front, my husband and I are trying to figure out how to survive in the same house for the next two weeks. The fact that the Packers were a slight favorite on the early line did not help matters.
Any suggestions?
morzer
@MBA EyeDoc:
Turn off TV, do not read papers, take a vacation together, check the actual result in a month’s time or so?
Paul in KY
@4tehlulz: The old saw is that it’s a good idea to be friendly with people who buy their ink in barrels (or their MHZ in barrels).
Elie
@Punchy:
This is why he is under such suspicion, as you rightly state. Its is too bad that he does not seem to realize that he is part of the image of that team and that as a leader he has certain responsibilities. He is exceedingly immature and self absorbed. Though I doubt that this is the end of his career as a Bear, he needs some serious PR and perhaps social counseling to survive. Bears fans don’t LIKE him even as they appreciate his talent… that may actually make it worse, as we see the waste.
Yes, celebrity NFL players get a lot of money. But they are similar to the Roman gladiators hired to allow the populace to express its more primal instincts in a civilized way. There is a behavior associated with gladiators that is different than the average Joe going to work with his lunchbucket and knocking off when the big hand strikes the hour — no matter what. He violates the gladiator expectation. turning his position into a pedestrian, inconsequential job rather than the very important pride outlet for a very very proud city. He disgraced his role not by his very real injury, but by his attitude PRIOR to the injury, IMHO.
Culture of Truth
@AxelFoley: Heh
Stillwater
Well, injury or no, here’s what pissed me off about Jay: while his team was still taking (and giving) punches, he sat placidly on the bench, alone, aloof, wearing that now-famous far-off self-absorbed glazed-over expression on his face, staring at the backs of his still-fighting teammates, with his ear buds in. Must’ve been some pretty damn good music to keep him from doing anything football related that might help his team win.
Legalize
@timb:
Sports media is even more beholden to the subjects they cover than the political media, because politicians, theoretically WANT to connect to people, and what they think ultimately matters to us – for good or for bad. Professional athletes don’t have to connect with anyone to be successful. They either win games or they don’t.
The sports media exists solely to prove to us that they matter. That the “analysis” they provide means something to our lives or even to the reality of the outcome of games. And NFL analysis is by far the worst. They are little more than gossipy teenagers towing the line that the league wants them to tell.
Elie
@Stillwater:
Exactly.
Unfortunately we are going to have to watch him twist in the wind of unpopularity and the negative mojo that brings on his team for the next year or two. That is unless he finds some maturity somewhere — which would be a miracle.
I’m actually wondering whether he is just not that smart and at some level doesnt really cognitively understand the situation he is in and what he had better deliver going forward.
drkrick
The NFL is about the only workplace where a lick of sense is less tolerated than national politics. Sensible people are unlikely to be interested and even less likely to survive.
MBA EyeDoc
@morzer:
That would be the smart play, right?
It’s unlikely though — I think we have known that this particular match-up would happen one day. It’s bad around here — our 8-year old son is a huge Falcons fan.
It was quite possible that there would have been a match-up in the Super Bowl that would lead to trash-talking no matter what.
@Elie:
This may be true. He may not be have emotional maturity or the personality to lead although he possesses a cannon for an arm. Brett Favre was not trying to be much of a leader when he first arrived in Green Bay. Maybe Jay will get it eventually; perhaps he needs a Holmgren-like guide to help him out in that area.
artem1s
ya’ll might want to check out this interview…
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/20/133053436/brain-injuries-haunt-football-players-years-later
I’m betting that the NFL is going to go through some major changes over the next few years regarding the level of physical violence required to participate. This book only looks at the long term effects of concussions. He didn’t look at the combined problems of steroids and pain killers.
the ‘old guard’ can whinge all it wants about ‘manning up’ and destroying yourself before you are dragged off the field. I’m betting that anyone with a kid who reads Nowinski’s book will seriously think twice before they let their kid get anywhere near a football. It is, literally, a dead end sport.
Quaker in a Basement
Out here in Colorado, we say that stuff about Cutler just because we hate him.
Punchy
@Stillwater: THIS. We had to rewind, then rewind again, to triple-check that he was indeed wearing ear buds. I couldn’t believe my eyes. Just why in the fuck is he “allowed” to check out to the point of listening to music while the game is on? He couldn’t high-five (and apologize to) his defense? Couldn’t give Hanie any pointers? Seriously, WTF was that?
Svensker
@Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods:
That’s where I am. I can’t judge his injury or his pain and sometimes the better part of valor is to say you hurt the team more by playing than by benching yourself (see Jets’ season with Brett Favre). But watching the game after he was out, we were all saying “why isn’t he on the sideline coaching his backup and cheering on the team?” That was very striking and, to me, showed a guy who was more interested in his personal pain (physical and emotional) than in how the team was doing. Not a leader.
Svensker
@Tim:
Oh, geez. The “sapphic variety”? My (dear deceased) mother and I suggest you go pork yourself with one of Rexy’s toes.
Svensker
@geg6:
Hey, congrats! When’s da nups?
Elie
@artem1s:
And that is a good thing. There are two issues here, actually.
1. Should a player who is injured play
2. What role does the player’s character and attitude play in perceptions around willingness to play
For Jay, the two have become intertwined and the resentment towards him related to number 2 but is expressed as an issue with his “toughness” in number 1.
If he had taken care of number 2, there would be no number 1 issue for him
Svensker
@MBA EyeDoc:
Both root for the Packers would be my recommendation.
Elie
@geg6:
Very many congrats, Geg! I love weddings. Are you gonna have a party?
tamied
@Svensker: Now see, I was going to say you should both root for the Steelers for serenity in the home.
Yutsano
@Svensker: @geg6: Color me as someone who thought this would never happen! Mind if I squee now?
PETE
@Dave:
Unwilling to take the blame? Based on what exactly? Find me a single quote from Jay Cutler pointing any fingers or throwing anyone under the bus for his league-high 57 sacks this year. Peyton Manning threw his O-Line under the bus last year for much less reason, but he’s a warrior so everyone shrugs it off I guess.
John, from a Bears fan and every-day reader, THANK YOU. This Cutler hate is ignorant bullshit from people who have watched maybe three Bears games all year. Cutler MIGHT be an asshole, but he’s not a quitter.
C.S.
@ Punchy
Oh, I get it now. It’s the image that troubles you. The image. It’s not whether Cutler’s actually tough, whether his teammates actually respect him, what actually happened to his knee, or what he actually did. Bears fans have an “image” of him, and that’s good enough for them. Because he doesn’t align with your local sports yak show’s received wisdom about what “tough” guys should or should not do in a particular situation. Because you’ve stupidly and unquestioningly adopted the idea that “character” and “toughness” can be discerned by Zapruder-film-level analysis of how someone behaves in random sideline cutaways. Because you and all like you conveniently forget aboslutely everything that doesn’t help them blame Cutler for something, anything.
But everything Cutler did in the game and on the sidelines — absolutely everything, without exception — can and would be used to show his toughness and greatness and leadership and blah-blah if from the outset you’d just have liked him more. They said it upthread, but it bears repeating: you’re an 8th grade girl. You just don’t like him because he was mean to you that one time after lunch, when he said you looked nice, but you knew — you just knew — he didn’t mean it, because of the way he did that thing with his mouth after he said it. Christ, it’s embarrassing.
There’s the famous story about Montana in the Super Bowl, in the huddle in a tight situation, pointing out John Candy in the stands to his teammates. That story is always, always, always used to emphasize Montana’s almost unnatural level of composure. But those same facts — the exact same facts — can and would have been used to vilify Cutler as uninvolved, uncaring, and whatever else you could dream up. And don’t tell me the difference is that Montana won Super Bowls, because he won them throwing to Rice and Clark and handing off to Roger Craig, behind a stellar O-line, and then letting Ronnie Lott and company deal with any mistakes. Oh, and Bill Walsh was his coach. And Steve Young was his backup. While all Cutler did this year is make Mike Martz and Lovie Smith look marginally competent while playing with the worst O-line of any team that made it to the playoffs, throwing to — who again? — and handing off to Forte, in a year when Julius Peppers got rich and played like it, and Urlacher made a nice recovery from his last couple of years, but is clearly not the player he used to be. Which one is the more impressive individual accomplishment?
Poopyman
@Yutsano: Wow! I missed that part on first scan. Congrats, Geg!
Stillwater
@Punchy: Couldn’t give Hanie any pointers? Seriously, WTF was that?
Remember when the camera focused on the two of them together? when Hanie sat down next to Cutler with the last series photos? Jay didn’t move closer, didn’t take his hands out of his pockets, didn’t really acknowledge Hanie at all. He just sorta left Hanie to try to understand the Packer defensive schemes all on his own. Way to really extend yourself, Jay.
But really, what does it say about a player who brings out his Ipod for the second half of a game, whether he’s been benched or not? And wtf is up with Lovie not slapping him silly for doing that?
Cat Lady
Cutler seems to have no social intelligence at all. I wonder if he’s got Asperger’s or some kind of cognitive disability. He’s not right, apart from whether he was hurt. The local sports guys here in Boston did play a fun game with a caller this a.m.- “angry Bears fan” (from YouTube postings) or “metal band lyrics”. Hilarity ensued.
PETE
@Legalize: If there’s anything stupider that the Beltway Village, it’s the Village attached to professional athletics.
This this this this +10000000
PETE
@C.S.:
Let’s not forget, also, CS, what network we’re talking about here. Did they even show reaction shots of Cutler after the Bears TDs? Nope. I believe they showed an elated A-Rod jumping around after the Raji pick.
All the experts who picked this team to go 3-13, who hated on Jay all offseason, well they have a narrative, and despite the fact that we went 12-5, that Cutler had 4 TD last game including 2 rushing, one on a called play from the 6 where he ran straight into the teeth of the defense, what we get fom Dilfer and co. is “I told you so”? Excuse me but what? The NFC championship game ended with 30 seconds left and we fought back against everyone’s preseason darlings, but we still suck and Jay Cutler is still a pussy. Please.
Elie
@PETE:
Its not Cutler hate because of his injury. It is because of his attitude, which you acknowledge is that he is an asshole. The two are conflated (injury and willingness to play) because of that.
Please, he is injured. We acknowledge that. But he is a very poor leader and a very detached and immature, unaware team member, forget leader, by sitting on the bench watching his team mates struggle with his ear buds in!
Don’t those ear buds just slay you? If those don’t mean “quitter”, I don’t know what does.. Those ear buds are his psychic wound, not truly the physical problem with the knee…
Stillwater
@C.S.: But everything Cutler did in the game and on the sidelines—absolutely everything, without exception—can and would be used to show his toughness and greatness and leadership and blah-blah if from the outset you’d just have liked him more.
Cart/horse inversion in this analysis.
Elie
@C.S.:
So you are ok with him sitting on the sidelines after he is out of the game listening to his private music stash.
Ok, got it. Leadership only counts for you when he throws a touch down and he is off the clock otherwise. He can just pull out that ol lunchbucket and dig into that great turkey sandwich, listening to his music which his team mates try to save the season.
PETE
Hanie on Cutler: “He helped me out numerous times throughout the game,” Hanie said. “When I went in, first of all he came and talked to me and said, ‘Hey, trust yourself, trust your reads, use your feet if you have to; don’t be afraid to do that. Trust the o-line and you’ll be fine.’ That calmed me down a little bit.
“Then after we went down and scored, I had the adrenaline going a little bit after that touchdown and it was the same thing. Right when I got to the sidelines he was the first one to say ‘Great job, now you’ve just got to go get another one. Make sure you stay calm and composed in there.’ So he helped me. He did that numerous times throughout the game. I guess people didn’t see that on TV but it definitely happened.”
Tulip
@morzer:
I’m a big Rodgers fan… can you expand at all on what this about? I completely missed it.
artem1s
@Elie:
yes, I see where #2 might be an issue, but no one knows what he was listening to. do you know it wasn’t an audio file on the other teams defense that he was reviewing for strategy? a pain management tape? no one knew, but the crowd jumps to the conclusion that he can’t possibly be doing anything that is ‘good’ for the team because he’s not out there jumping around on the sidelines (possibly hurting himself more).
In the NFL there is an ‘acceptable’ way to show ‘toughness’ and that pretty much doesn’t include any kind of inward reflection, concentration, or self monitoring. The culture of calling someone out who doesn’t behave in the ‘accepted’ NFL mold of overt violence is part of the problem of ramping it up over the last 40 years. The system and culture rewards the players that conform to a certain mold.
This year there have been players who have spent the whole season whinging about not being allowed to go out and destroy other players because of the new rules on concussions. They cannot even conceive of a system that would not require that level of violence. It is ingrained so much so that when a player is taken out of the game his integrity as a player is automatically called into question unless he is physically removed unconscious,on a gurney.
It even is reflected in activity in the stands. Stadium management that have instituted rules about violent language, drunkenness and outright fighting during games have been criticized for ‘ruining’ the game. Because it isn’t enough for a fan to ‘politely’ support his team. You aren’t considered a real fan unless you are willing to do physical violence on behalf of your team. The city of Cleveland in an effort to stem some of the public drunkenness and fighting, instituted laws about how far in advance fans could tailgate before a game and seriously, you would think it was the end of the world.
The NFLs problem, if they choose to address it, will be that culture of violence is far too ingrained in the sport and that the system can’t conceive of how to change the game so that it doesn’t involve the players actively trying to hurt each other and themselves.
Seriously, read/listen to the interview. I would bet that most people don’t know how endemic the long term health problems are.
Elie
@PETE:
Well that is very reassuring.
Thanks
That said, why is it ok with the ear buds? Not one of you who defend Jay’s behavior, address the reality of those ear buds and what they mean. Would you do that in his place as leader of the team? Seriously.
PETE
Elie, I love how you and others are so myopically focused on the few 3-second cutaways of Cutler on the bench. Were you privy to some extra feed on fox.com that had a camera trained on Cutler the whole time? That’s great. Link please.
Of course now it’s about the attitude, but look me in the Internet eye and tell me you weren’t making comments about his INJURY yesterday. Now that we know he’s injured, it’s suddenly the ear buds that are the problem. MJD didn’t tweet about ear buds. He straight up called Cutler out for quitting on his team, and I’m sure you were saying the same thing yesterday.
God forbid you listen to Hanie, or Urlacher, or Kreutz, or Lovie. Why don’t you move to Denver.
Stillwater
@PETE: Really? That’s it? Even though Hanie admits that the teevee never showed Cutler actually helping him?
ETA: I mean, what fainter praise can you give the starting QB than by saying that he helped you by cheering for you, rather than, say, helping you read a soft coverage in the defense?
Elie
@artem1s:
You bring up some excellent points and I surely do not know what he was listening to. He could have been undertaking a very sophisticated focus and messaging approach. I am totally cool with that but highly doubt it. Why would you be listening to that AFTER you are out of the game and your team mates are still out there working to get it done? Sorry, it just fails the reasonability scenario.
I think that you are absolutely right about the violence thing. I am embarrassed to say that I like a certain amount of NFL, programmed and rules based violence. The shades of gray and how to enforce more safety is a hugely important challenge. But I LIKE watching football as a physical game.
Elie
@PETE:
You are right. I did comment on his injury and wrongly conflated that with his character — that he was a quitter. I made the error and I own it. I truly believe that he was injured but have now refined my thinking to understand that it was not whether he was truly injured — which I accept, but his attitude prior to the injury and a little after as well.
How do you deal with the ear bud thing, Pete? Do you think that is the behavior of a team leader, even if as artemis points out, we don’t know what he could have been listening to — maybe zen motivation…
Stillwater
@Tulip: I think he’s referring to the way the media tried to paint Aaron Rogers as the bad guy for ‘forcing’ Brett Favre to retire from GB.
Dave
Y’know…Philip Rivers played on a torn ACL in the 2007 AFC Championship Game. I mentioned before how Jack Youngblood played on a broken leg the entire 1979 playoffs. So Cutler could have tried to play.
That said, it wouldn’t be such a big deal if Cutler wasn’t such an ass. When you act like that, people are going to hop all over you.
AnotherBruce
Really, I dare anyone in the world to try to call Cutler a quitter in front of Olin Kruetz’s face. That would be amusing in a gory kind of way.
For all of you Cutler critics, let me point out something. I’ll say it very slowly for you so you understand.
His. coach. removed. him. from. the. game.
What was he supposed to do, go and physically drag Hanie out of the field?
Elie
@AnotherBruce:
Please read some of the comments upstring. You are fighting the wrong point. No one disagrees that he was indeed injured. Its his attitude, personality, leadership.
What about the ear buds, Bruce? What.about.the.ear.buds?
He was out of the game already, sitting on the sidelines with his ear buds in place. Would YOU do that? Really? Another question: do you think that his team mates knew that he had those ear buds in?
Elie
..I think that while it is important to support Jay’s skills and accomplishments, I would hope that some of you who are his fans would want him to grow up a bit. All this hooh hah is a direct result of personality attributes and overt behavior decisions that he has made. Help him out a bit and lets hopefully hope he can get some grooming on how how behave and project the appropriate image for a team leader. No one disputes his talent. He has got to fix this problem he has, however. You are doing him no favors by giving him a bunch of attaboys and thereby denying that he has a major problem here. He does.
PETE
But Bruce, he was wearing ear buds. EAR BUDS!!!!
Dave, nice that you picked that up from Dilfer. What he didn’t mention is that in the Divisional game where he tore his ACL, he sat out the 4th quarter. So I guess Rivers is a quitter too, huh?
Elie, here’s what I think about the ear buds, or bud really, since he only had one ear budded, so to speak: he shouldn’t have been listening. It looked bad. I’m not going to psychoanalyze him. But my point is that the ear buds, and his expression, and Fox’s selective editing have become the cover issue for a bunch of people that can’t admit (as you admirably did, at least) that yesterday they were calling him a quitter.
Tomorrow when we find out he was listening to a crashing waves track to calm down (unlikely, just bear with me), all the ear bud people will find something else to bitch about. The bottom line is some people don’t like Jay and they’re not going to let this gift-wrapped opportunity to shit on him slip through their fingers, facts be damned.
Dave
@PETE: Yeah, but he played the next game, didn’t he? He didn’t sit out the fourth quarter pouting with his head down like a quitter.
And again, the larger point is that if Cutler wasn’t such an ass and so enamored with himself (“I have a better arm than Elway”) this wouldn’t be an issue.
Elie
@Cat Lady:
I think you might be onto something, but of course it would be just speculation. There are a fair number of high functioning Aspergers out there and they would indeed have trouble connecting with people….
Of course, we would never know that but it would explain a lot.
de stijl
What I find entertaining is that Chicago sports fans have a pathological need to find one scapegoat for the failure of their teams. First Bartman and now Cutler.
JasonK
Guys….I watched the whole game and several times they showed Cutler and Hanie talking to each other.
They also showed Cutler all smiles (and Buck/Aikman mentioned it) when Hanie got one of the TDs.
So give it a rest already will ya? Cutler has type-1 diabetes….its just not the same game for him as for someone else. He might not be able to take the meds that can help in a situation like tthat.
Thing is, had the Bears won we’d have them in the Super Bowl with the 2nd/3rd stringers? That would have been fun…
Elie
@PETE:
Pete, you just can’t keep giving him a pass and completely ignoring those of us with valid concerns about his temperament and behavior. This guy is the leader of the team and he MUST project a certain seriousness and awareness about his role and responsibility. You are being unfair to US. We have a right to not unreasonable expectations of certain behavior and comportment. I have been a lifelong Bears fan. Do you think that I am just looking for something to beat up on their quarterback, just because? Believe me, I have every wish that he be successful and hope that he can still. Don’t blow off our valid concerns and observations in your blind attempt to defend this guy who while talented, (and maybe even more because he is so talented), needs some adjustment, learning and further development, right along with getting his knee fixed.
AnotherBruce
I seem to remember Cutler cheering and smiling when Hanie scored a touchdown. I really don’t know how the rest of you missed that.
Look, he’s a mope, but seriously I think people’s reaction to Cutler says more about them than it says about Cutler. It’s all pretty childish. I really don’t know Jay Cutler, so I really don’t know if he’s an asshole in the real sense of the word or just an asshole to the media. I know he does volunteer work with diabetic kids and never says much about it. I don’t need the quarterback to fill my emotional needs. His team does need him to win games though, something that’s hard to do with a serious knee injury.
There’s a quarterback playing in the Super Bowl that has had two serious charges of sexual assault against him. The media for the most part ignores that and launches what looks to be an ongoing tirade against a guy that wears ear buds on the sideline. But you know, it provides cheap entertainment for us to tear down this awful villain.
Stillwater
@PETE: The bottom line is some people don’ like Jay and they’re not going to let this gift-wrapped opportunity to shit on him slip through their fingers, facts be damned.
But that’s the real issue here (a trivial one, really, but one sports fans do take seriously): some people don’t like Jay Cutler. Now why is that? When some of us criticize Cutler, your response appears to be that we criticize him because we don’t like him. That’s just wrong. The reason we don’t like him as a football player derives from his behavior as a football player.
I for one think he could become a good football player. And I also think his narcissism makes the likelihood of that happening pretty slim. But opinions differ.
David W
Is Pouncey a quitter? I suppose all of the heroic sports blowhards watching on tv would’ve played through the injured ankle if they were in the game.
The Bears did Cutler a serious disservice by offering such vague in-game explanations for his injury, noting that his return was “questionable,” which I suppose sort of implies that he could return if only he wanted to, at least to those who seem to really really want to interpret it that way. Had the team been more definitive (a knee injury, out of the game), he probably wouldn’t be taking such heat.
He clearly has never been an especially popular player, but it really is amazing just how disliked he seems to be around the league.
Nick
Cutler played AFTER being injured, so it wasn’t the sort of injury that absolutely prevented him from playing.
The question is whether his team would have been better off with him playing hurt, wearing a brace and with a painkiller.
It’s interesting that they haven’t disclosed the degree of sprain. The fact that he was out there after they looked at it during halftime strongly suggests it wasn’t a 3rd degree tear (complete tear).
The fact that he didn’t have a brace put on it after halftime (or sooner) suggests it probably wasn’t even a 2nd degree sprain (they didn’t even bother to put ice on it, which is pretty telling–either the sprain wasn’t very bad, or the Bears training staff are morons).
Peter
Here is the thing about “ear buds”. Cutler was not listening to music. They are connected to the offense coach in the booth who is signaling in the plays to the quarterback.
Elie
@AnotherBruce:
Again,don’t paint all of us with the same brush as the media. I know that I don’t deserve that. I do not at all support the behavior of some of the very questionnable “star” quarterbacks that as you state, include a possible rapist and a known animal abuser. Again, I am not sure why you find it so difficult to acknowledge that Jay needs some work on his professional and team image — which is why this snafu is happening to him. Seems to me like you are all balled up in trying to valide his victimization at the hands of “a churlish group of unfair fans and media”, rather than honestly weighting the range of issues here.
No one is denying his injury anymore. What is being focused on is his behavior, which at best can be described as odd for a leader in a very visible situation (playoff game). This is a slam dunk for anyone with his wits about him and at least a tiny bit of emotional awareness. If Jay is dialed in, this whole discussion is not even happening. Instead, he can’t seem to figure out what the social and leadership role of an NFL quarterback requires on the most superficial level — when the cameras are on you and when you have to talk to your fans through the media. This is NOT rocket science for a guy who can memorize whole play books. I am sure he has watched a lot of sports in his lifetime and the trite responses of zillions of stars.
So come off it. He is not a victim of a crazy mob. He is suffering from a self inflicted wound and those of us who truly care about him and the team would like him to pay attention to this. He has a lot on the line. Way more than I do.
geemoney
@Punchy: You have to be honest, though. There’s no winning in that situation. Remember the Cardinals (?) QB that got shellacked for smiling on the sideline when his team was losing? No, it wasn’t just his crappy answer to the question. As much as the most die hard fans love the game, the guys that play it love it 1000X more. I don’t think you can imagine what it’s like to have a lifelong dream slip away like that.
He may still be a dick, but interpreting what he’s doing on the sidelines once he’s out of the game borders on phrenology.
Stillwater
@Nick: The question is whether his team would have been better off with him playing hurt, wearing a brace and with a painkiller.
That’s one thing lost in all the Cutlerbashing: whether leaving him in would’ve improved the Bears chances of winning. He led I think 8 drives before he
quitwas pulled (ha! kidding!): seven punts and an int. Surely the Bears didn’t think it would come down to Hanie, but Cutler’s performance was arguably bad enough to deserve some earbud time.Elie
@geemoney:
So, we should ignore ear buds and sitting on a bench with a detached look on your face.
This is not Joey playing Pop Warner. He is a NFL quarterback — the highest Muhah. People are not going to watch him on and around the field? You are saying no one could have any expectations of how he should behave on the sidelines of a big game, his team behind, him out of the game and the third string quarterback in there to help pull it out? Ear buds in his ears just don’t fit with the image I have in my head of what I want to see. Is he looking through the pics of the plays, is he over with Martz talking over options or giving his input? Is he head to head with the youngster? Well, no.
Honestly. This is not phrenology. If you are invited to a dinner, do you expect to see plates, knives and forks on a table? What if you see an ironing board and slippers on the table? Do you say, ok, I like ironing with my slippers on or do you think, what happened to dinner?
Nick
Stillwater:
I think that’s a big part of it. Lovie was getting no traction with Cutler and his 30 QB rating, and figured almost anyone could do better. Cutler’s injury gave him an excuse for pulling an ineffective quarterback.
As for Cutler, I’m sure he was hurt. An MCL sprain hurts, and if it’s bad enough, even walking can be painful. However, I had a Grade 1-2 MCL tear at 52 and I could still run.
That being said, Cutler’s statements are vague and sound as if Cutler was given an opportunity by the team to sit down, and rather than gut it out he sat. That’s what it looks like, and that’s why so many people are being critical.
AnotherBruce
@Elie: I was speaking generally and mostly about the media, I apologize if that was unclear. I would hit the reply button if I were speaking to you and no, I don’t think that anyone is condoning the behavior of the quarterbacks you mention. I’m not saying the guy doesn’t deserve criticism and I agree he definitely has issues to deal with.
I guess that I’m suprised at the volume and vindictiveness of the criticism. It’s way out of proportion with anything he did. I admit I had my own questions about him when he was removed from the game, but I remarked to my friends that I was watching the game with that I’d give him the benefit of the doubt because he had been a tough football player in the past. I think that’s a pretty good way to approach something like this, but not many media personalities took this approach.
At any rate, I’m probably making too much of this, but what really fascinates me isn’t what Cutler did or didn’t do, but how people reacted to his behavior.
piratedan
@Stillwater:
yeah, there’s no way there could have been anything human going on like “geez, my year is over and this is the biggest game of my life and I can’t continue to be out there trying to win” kind of reaction. besides, this has already been refuted by the statements of the 3rd string QB who praised Cutler for helping him keep his emotions in check and keeping his focus intact while they went through the defensive snapshots together. So courtesy of the Fox Sports guys we get a snapshot of his behavior for a moment in time that shows him alone on the bench, easily taken out of context.
as for his behavior on the sidelines, its been mentioned by many players in the past that the hardest thing for them is dealing with injury, because you’re either out there on the field helping the team win or you are not and as such, are reduced to being background noise. One of those dreaded warfare analogies, you lose your commanding officer in battle, well the next guy has to step up and take charge. As for being out there on the field, the team doctors said “no go” and they are responsible to the owner who pays the players salaries. The Bears paid a hefty price for Mr. Cutler and as such, for both his own well being and his career, they said to sit him. His own OL noticed that he was no longer walking properly and now he’s supposed to be able to make quick elusive lateral movements and put weight on it to throw?
As for the degree of the injury, the NFL network is reporting that it’s a tear, not a sprain and to be honest, there’s this human hormone called adrenaline, that when its going masks all kinds of pain and when you’re sitting in a locker room for about twenty minutes removed from the field of play, that would be the perfect environment to allow your body to “settle”.
In regards to credit, how about throwing some to the Packers D. They had the same effect on Collins as they did on Cutler. I think that they “relaxed” a bit when the 3rd stringer showed up and started playing the clock too much too soon and allowed the game to tighten up.
Stillwater
@piratedan: That’s a pretty potent psychological defense of Cutler’s behavior. You can have it. I’m unpersuaded. It’s not like this incident exists in a vacuum, either for Cutler specifically or in professional sports in general. So I ask myself: who am I gonna believe, Cutler apologists or my own lying eyes?
Tim
@Svensker:
No idea, what your point is here, Sphincter, but love ya!
Tim
@Elie:
You might consider developing a life outside of your role as one of millions of Bears obsessives.
PanAmerican
@Tim:
Look at the upside. It gives them something to do besides phoning in death threats to Steve Bartman.
“They’re really, really behind you around here… my fuckin’ ass. What the fuck am I supposed to do, go out there and let my fuckin’ players get destroyed every day and be quiet about it? For the fuckin’ nickel-dime people who turn up? The motherfuckers don’t even work. That’s why they’re out at the fuckin’ game. They oughta go out and get a fuckin’ job and find out what it’s like to go out and earn a fuckin’ living. Eighty-five percent of the fuckin’ world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. A fuckin’ playground for the cocksuckers. Rip them motherfuckers. Rip them fuckin’ cocksuckers like the fuckin’ players. we got guys bustin’ their fuckin’ ass, and them fuckin’ people boo.
C.S.
@Elie:
First of all, you need to admit that you have no earthly idea — no idea whatsoever — what was coming through those ear buds, if anything. Not. One. Clue. Second, you need to ask yourself why you needed to characterize it as his “private music stash” as if you did know and as if that meant something.
There’s no shortage of people upthread who point out he’s a diabetic. You can’t just take any old medication when you’re a diabetic. You know what helps people who are in a great deal of pain but who can’t take pain medication for whatever reason? Visualization, for one thing, isolating and controling your pain by calming yourself. You know what helps such visualization? Having someone talking you through it. You know what’s good for that? A FREAKIN’ I-POD AND EAR BUDS.
Now, do I know that’s what he was listening to? No. But it sounds perfectly plausible and the sort of thing that someone who wasn’t already fundamentally anti-Cutler for whatever childish reason might have thought of without much trouble.
My point is that if Montana (or Manning, or Brees, or Bradshaw) pulled out the lunchbucket, Trent Dilfer and his ilk would be falling over themselves to say how much it showed they were leading by example, by not appearing flustered and eating a sandwich even though their team was down. And isn’t it a pretty good idea for a diabetic to have something to eat during the game anyway?
@Elie:
“Valid” concerns that you can’t identify with reference to anything other than earbuds. Gotcha.
Which, if he did, you totally would be behind him, right? Because you’re really fair-minded and just want what’s best for the Bears and Jay Cutler and absolutelytotally don’t have your hate on for the guy? Please, you’d just bitch that he was trying to usurp Urlacher, or you’d say he was too serious — surly, in fact! — and you’d use it as just more reason why he’s totally unfit to lead. Not to mention the fact that you have absolutely no idea whether “projecting” such seriousness of purpose would actually be, you know, useful. You don’t. He’s not your damn quarterback, he’s the Bears’ quarterback. He owes them, not you. Now, you may want the Bears to have a quarterback who treats you and other fans as an indispensible part of the team’s success, but that’s not leadership — that’s public relations. And public relations has very little (ok, none) connection to “leadership” or the quarterback position.
Oh, please. No you don’t. You’re free to hate on the guy, just don’t pretend that it’s because he’s breached some sort of defined code. The guy got you within a game of the Super Bowl. Single handedly. Seriously — all by his lonesome. Remember that. As fans, you owe him a hell of a lot more than he owes you. He made you relevant. Plus, count how many times he was sacked this year and tell me why refraining from demanding an in-season trade to a team with an offensive line doesn’t meet your random standard.
Well, quacks like a duck . . .
terry chay
@Tim:
Actually, Pittsburgh has the most female fans, with Green Bay Packers at #2. I once read another analysis that Pittsburgh was unique in professional football teams with more female than male fans.
Here are some stories
1) Calling home after Superbowl XL (Pittsburgh loses to Dallas) and having my mom, a 5′ tall <90lb professor of biophysics, answer the phone with, "That Neil O'Donnel ;is on the take.
2) Watching Superbowl XLIII to cheers of my college classmate's daughter yelling “'teelerz!" in a Pittsburgh cheerleaders outfit. (She was 2 years old).
3) Going to Giordano's (Think Primanti's but in San Francisco) to watch a Steeler game with my friend who only came along because he was crushing on a regular (and Steelers fan) there.
4) Finding out one of my girlfriend's colleagues in PR actually has a table reserved for her and her husban at Giordano's on game day.
I'm sure the list goes on. There are just a heck of a lot of Steeler fans who are female. If I have a daughter, damn straight she's going to be one of them.
terry chay
@Elie, PETE, et. al.: There is this famous Chuck Noll quote where the offense was cheering the Steel Curtain on and Chuck Noll says (paraphrasing): “Stop that right now. That has no place here. That rah rah stuff will only take you so far. The stuff that matters is the stuff on the field.”
What this tells me is that Chuck Noll wouldn’t have given a shit about some earbuds in his quarterback’s ears while he is injured on the sideliens. And this coming from a guy who permanently damaged his relationship with his (future) 4-time winning Superbowl QB (and 1 time Superbowl MVP).
I think the person who hypothesizes that he probably as Asperger’s or something is probably right. You know, I root for a team going to the superbowl, but if I could wish something, I wish Roethlisburger had more sense off the field (motorcycle accident, two rape accusations), but he isn’t.
I deal.
JasonK
@C.S. just a note….people round here hated Rex Grossman too but there was one big difference between him and Cutler….he actually got them *in* to the Super Bowl ;)
PETE
@Tim: I have been a lifelong Bears fan. Do you think that I am just looking for something to beat up on their quarterback, just because?
No. I already told you what I think: You don’t like Cutler.
Peter has said that the ear buds are connected to the playcall feed, which I can’t verify, but if true would make you look preeeetty rough.
But your last post is a near perfect example of the type of person — you, for instance — who I will call an entitled fan. You think that aside from showing up to practice every day, showing up on the field every week, doing everything he’s obligated to do under his contract and doing it well enough to earn the respect and loyalty of his teammates, coaches, and a large number of fans — aside from all that he MUST (as you CAPPED it) adhere to a certain personality profile or else you can “validly” criticize his attitude. I am beyond sick of you armchair psychologists. If you want to feel warm and fuzzy inside every time your starting QB addresses fans and the media, I don’t know what to tell you.
First he was faking an injury. The MRI says he’s injured, so now it’s not “getting involved” enough. Hanie says he was taking to Cutler throughout. So now it’s the ear buds, which are evidently connected to the playcall feed. So then it’s his expression, or the fact that he wasn’t icing his knee in 20 degree weather (which, to your credit, you haven’t gone there yet), or the fact that he was standing, or, or , or.
Go on ESPN.com and watch Derrick Brooks try to pathetically cover his ass after news broke of the MCL tear. That’s you, only without the Super Bowl ring.
C.S.
@JasonK:
You’re right. Although someone more pedantic than myself would say that Brian Urlacher got them into the Super Bowl.