Sorry to contribute to the conventional wisdom, but– I thought the president’s speech last night was excellent, both on substance and in tone. I would tweak a few things myself, but the fact is that we desperately need a jobs program and we need it now, and I thought he and his team did a very savvy job of framing the proposed bill. I don’t believe that there is any endeavor which the nihilists across the aisle will jump on board with, but it was very effective for setting the media narrative.
Speaking of tone, I do want to say that I think the question of tone, narrative, and attitude from the president is being discussed too narrowly on blogs. Yes, I agree that those who speak as though tough talk will somehow pass the president’s agenda, magically, are being naive. A party that holds the Senate and the presidency certainly should be able to enact more of its agenda, but we’ve got a foolish system requiring a supermajority and Obama’s tone can’t affect that either way. At the same time, I also think people are running too far in the other direction, particularly among some Beltway types who want to flex their Cult of the Savvy status. I don’t think tone has much of an effect on short term legislative issues at all. But I do think that the embrace of a fighting spirit helps determine both the outcome of elections and the mandate that arises from those elections. Sad as it is to say with our failed media experiment, the way that the media presents the outcome of elections makes a big difference in legislative outcomes. I also think that party allegiance and self-identification have a lot to do with whether individual voters feel that their party is a point of pride. Tone can’t pass cap and trade, but it might make things easier for this president or the next Democrat in the years to come.
To that end, the path from now until next November seems pretty clear to me: Democrats and liberals bring everything back to jobs. Always. Like a mantra. Obama makes a speech: what about job? Activists go to a Republican town hall: what about jobs? A Dem appears on Meet the Press: where are the jobs? At the Presidential debates: what is your plan for jobs? Make raising employment synonymous with the Democratic party’s efforts in 2012. Make the question so constant and so insistent that people in the media feel compelled to ask Republicans these questions themselves. Any hint of intransigence from Republicans on the issue has to be leaped on immediately. And there will be value apart from partisanship: owning the issue will make Democrats who are perhaps skittish about their own reelections prioritize it and do all they can to help reduce unemployment. We’ve seen the importance recently of keeping centrists on the reservation.
Jobs, jobs, jobs, from politicians and bloggers and activists. I know it sounds obvious, but now we’ve got the concrete proposal and the commitment from the top.
Samara Morgan
wallah…does this mean you have changed your mind?
hahaha!
dr. bloor
Good luck with that. Milbank has a column discussing the Republicans’ rank disrespect during Obama’s speech last night. Title of said column? “The irrelevancy of the Obama presidency.”
Samara Morgan
fucking emoprog faux liberal troll.
/spit
nominus
Hey, it worked once before. It’s the economy, stupid. By all rights the Dems should have the Republicans cornered on this one – the plutocrat policies just plain don’t work, and I hope the Democrats nail them to the wall on it for the next year.
schlemizel - was Alwhite
The Republicans succeeded in making the original stimulus bill a giant tax give away with limited tools to actually create jobs. They then hung its failure around Obama’s neck rather successfully. I expect the exact same thing this time.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
Apparent we can be
Freddie deBoer
@nominus: Harder for an incumbent to pull off, I’ll admit. But that’s what makes having a concrete proposal so important. Democrats will need to bang that drum again and again.
@Samara Morgan: To me, it’s the delicious crust. Definitely. Cherry is my preference.
FlipYrWhig
I think this plays off, and is complicated by, the very commonplace strategy among Democrats to run and govern as Democrat-but-not-THAT-KIND-of-Democrat.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Samara Morgan: up early?
Freddie deBoer
@FlipYrWhig: Yes. Exactly. That’s part of the problem. Again, changing that won’t suddenly change the filibuster rule or give Democrats the House. But I do believe that part of the reason why so many Americans who endorse liberal policies and beliefs but don’t self-identify as liberal is because they see many Democrats apologizing for their own ideology, and a media who runs along with it. If we’re playing the long game I think that has to change.
barath
@schlemizel – was Alwhite:
So your assumption is that if the bill were to pass, by the election it will be seen as failing?
I don’t agree, but not because of the bill. Everything is about the business cycle and oil prices. Right now oil prices are on their way down, as is the business cycle. That sets us up for decent growth sometime in the middle of next year – with or without the jobs bill. The jobs bill will provide a small boost. If it passes, it’ll be seen as successful simply due to timing.
cmorenc
I was on the road yesterday when Obama gave his speech, and almost decided to skip it and listen to the Sirius blues station instead. I feared he would give something that came across as too little, too late, too ineffective that would be instantly twisted and diced into chopped hamburger by our failed media experiment pundits, and that the GOP congresscritters would instantly find ways to inflict further petty humiliations on the White House and its proposals.
I must say I was VERY pleasantly surprised on the upside by the forceful, effective approach of the speech as a political act, even though I have less confidence in its potential economic effectiveness. Obama immediately gained the upper hand politically and reset the media framing. How long this will last before the Dems manage to fritter it away remains to be seen.
More of this from Obama, and he may prove much tougher to beat than the GOP had thought, even in a tough economy.
jibeaux
I recently read that “Goodbye to All That” piece from the former R staffer that was floating around, and it kind of stuck with me. I think the fundamental force we are fighting is that the low information and politically flexible voter, who is going to make or break this election, has been receiving the message for years that Washington is broken, the system is broken, nothing ever changes or gets done, etc., without the message getting through where the fault for that can be laid. The media reinforce this due to the “Views Differ on Shape of Planet” tendency. Obama can’t get anything through this Congress, so all he can do is spend the next year relentlessly driving home the message that Washington is broken because the Republicans fucking broke it. The economy is screwed because the Republicans won’t do anything about it. It can’t be said enough or in too many different ways. I agree that we all need to help.
Samara Morgan
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): yup, the early bird gets the emoprog faux liberal troll.
how long will it be until de Bore returns to cutting on himself over O’s latest Epic Betrayal of the Liberal Cause?
lol, im just bored with the Cole/mistermix/DougJ serial pimping of their glibertarian rent boi du jour.
if i want to read glibertarian kangaroo slap fights i can go to Reason or the Atlantic.
jo6pac
I had a better time drinking wine.
EconWatcher
Read it this morning; it was a heckuva speech.
I was feeling pretty down about reelection prospects if we double-dip, but Obama has two huge things going for him: (1) Most people still think the last administration is responsible for this depression; and (2) most people do now think that the Republicans are being obstructionist.
If those perceptions are reinforced again and again, it may be enough to pull this one out.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Samara Morgan: Come on, you love it!
RalfW
Amen, Freddie.
Blue Neponset
I was glad to see the President using the bully pulpit. As you say, if he and the Dems keep up with the “where are the jobs” refrain the Repubs will have to respond.
What I fear, however, is that the President’s past concern about the deficit, high taxes and regulations is going to give Republicans a lot of cover to just do nothing. The Repubs will just claim that we can’t afford a stimulus and keep on lying about how taxes are too high and regulations too intrusive. It will be difficult for Obama & Co. to argue that those concerns are not serious issues after legitimizing them for the last few years.
Anywho, it was good to see Obama fighting, it may be too late though.
Dennis G.
Well said and spot on.
Cheers
Samara Morgan
we know what you really think freddie.
geg6
@cmorenc:
And they finally got the marketing right for once! The American Jobs Act…what could possibly be more succinct than that? Who doesn’t understand that? And I think Freddie is right. Every conversation, every debate, every moment has to be focused on jobs, jobs, jobs. If this clown car of a party of mine (not as clownish as the other, but not too far either) can finally find a way to act as one, have everyone on the same page…we could turn around in 2012 and be shocked at what we can do.
jibeaux
Also too, I don’t see anything wrong with harping on the fact that we’re paying these fuckers in the legislative branch $174k a year plus free healthcare and pensions and we expect them to get off their asses every once in a while and legislate for a change. It’s not class warfare, it’s simple math.
O/T, but there is a push from our horrible new GOP leadership in NC — they actually made it enough of a priority to start seriously discussing it right after HURRICANE IRENE WHICH HIT NC — to put a constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage on the ballot. I should mention if you’re not familiar with NC that we are not in let’s say any immediate danger of changing the laws on same sex marriage, and this is a highly transparent ploy to get neanderthals to the polls. And whether it passes or not, it’s a no-lose proposition for them from that POV. But I was pleasantly surprised to read that support for passing the amendment polls at about 30% right now.
cleek
right on, Freddie.
Chris
@EconWatcher:
Pull a Truman: run against the do-nothing Republican Congress. And as you said, that may be enough to pull us out of this one.
Freddie deBoer
Anywho, it was good to see Obama fighting, it may be too late though
It very well may be. But the millions of people who are out of work desperately need someone making a concerted effort.
Samara Morgan
After all, freddie has been consistant on one thing……he just cant vote for Obama.
why dont we just invite Hamsher to the front page, Cole?
Brian R.
Well said.
I think the Democratic mantra for the election should be borrowed from the mob-buys-the-restaurant speech in GoodFellas:
“Business bad? Fuck you, where are the jobs? Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, where are the jobs? Place got hit by lightning huh? Fuck you, where are the jobs?”
Litlebritdifrnt
Saw some bobble heads waffling on MJ this morning that even if his plan is enacted it won’t make a dent in the job numbers. Then I see on Twitter this morning that Moody’s says it will create 1.9 million jobs. So which is it?
Samara Morgan
from his blog: I am not looking forward to the next election cycle. I mean, I think everybody hates election exhaustion. But this will be an exceptionally trying time for anyone who believes that America should have better alternatives than a center-right party and a right-right party. The “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists” certainty of those who insist that anyone on the left has to vote for Obama is already getting ginned up.
(You’ve got to hand it Balloon Juice: no other blog in history has been so adept at perfectly defining bullshit and how it operates, and then turning around and engaging in precisely that kind of bullshit. A fun game you can play with Balloon Juice is to go through its wonderful lexicon, then turn to the posts on the front page and see how many of them are guilty of the sins the lexicon identifies.)
The Balloon Juice crew has been holding Andrew Sullivan’s feet to the fire over the absurd Ryan budget, which is important, but holy moly. I would give that a good fisking but honestly it’s all too wearying. Suffice is to say that this kind of discourse-politicing argument is going to become increasingly commonplace, until “YOU MUST VOTE FOR OBAMA” will become a mantra in the progressive blogosphere. Get used to it.
I’m sure I’ll articulate why I can’t support Barack Obama for the presidency in 2012 at great length in the future.
Freddie deBoer
Oh, by the way, one thing I’d love to see is a proposal banning consideration of credit rating (with an exception for jobs like accountant where it is directly relevant) and current employment status in hiring decisions. It’s a vicious cycle and really anti-American, I think.
Brian R.
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Let’s see … the airheads of Morning Joke vs. actual economists. Hard to know who to believe there.
Kane
President Obama managed to change the narrative not only in putting the focus squarely on jobs, but he also appeared to successfully change the growing negative narrative that was following him. He successfully claimed the mantle of seeking to create jobs, while Republicans are left opposing job creation. I would not be surprised to see a rise in Obama’s poll numbers.
danimal
My thought process:
1) Good post by Freddie.
2) I’ll make a comment before She of Many Names gunks up the thread.
3) Oh, crap.
Blue Neponset
@Freddie deBoer: Yup, there are a lot of people who deserve Obama & the Dem’s best effort. I am starting to think we might finally be getting it.
Litlebritdifrnt
@jibeaux: My local RWNJ radio host was discussing that the other day. It was quite hilarious really because he kept saying “why shouldn’t the people, we the people have our say on this issue?” yet when there was talk on having a referendum on the lottery years ago (which polls showed the majority of voters were in favor of) they were all “No! No! You can’t have the rubes voting on this issue that is what we have elected representatives for ELEVENTY!” I sometimes wonder how their heads don’t explode with the sheer weight of the hypocrisy.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Brian R.:
Sorry I was being snarky :)
Brian R.
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I realized that as soon as I hit send. Time for coffee, apparently.
WereBear
Come on, people… despair means THEY WIN.
The President has always been a clutch hitter. He tried to be reasonable with the feral children, who eat with their hands and scream in church and run like meth-addled monkeys through the Hummel collection.
Now, it’s gonna be the Tough Love. They asked for it.
debit
@WereBear: I like the cut of your jib.
Sideshow Bill
FIFY
Chris
@Litlebritdifrnt:
This.
When the people agree with them on an issue (or when they say they do, as with UHC), it’s all “GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!! TYRANT!! SOCIALIST!! TRAITOR!!” When they don’t, it’s all “yeah, but we’re NOT a democracy, we’re a REPUBLIC, the people don’t get to…” etc.
Kane
One lesson that I learned long ago is to never underestimate Barack Obama. Again and again, when the media has used every possible metaphor, meme, and narrative to count him out, when those on the right are full of themselves and confident that they have thoroughly marginalized him, and when some on the left can’t jump off of the bandwagon fast enough, Obama steps up and shines. And he does it all with a smile.
Chris
@Litlebritdifrnt:
This.
When the people agree with them on an issue (or when they say they do, as with UHC), it’s all “GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT!! TYRANT!! SOSHULIST!! TRAITOR!!” When they don’t, it’s all “yeah, but we’re NOT a democracy, we’re a REPUBLIC, the people don’t get to…” etc.
ericblair
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Goopers just pick the most convenient stick at the moment to beat people with: it doesn’t matter to them that it’s the opposite one from yesterday. Actually, if you go by the It’s All Tribal theory, it’s even better that it’s the opposite one from yesterday because then you can show your fealty and ensure others’ by changing your arguments 180 degrees overnight and watching everyone else go along.
Logic and consistency is really irrelevant. To them, of course you treat Our Tribe and the Other by different standards, and these standards are what Our Tribe says they are. Demanding consistent treatment is basically giving aid and comfort to the Other.
Surly Duff
I get this, and agree that the speech was effective. However, none of it matters unless the bill is passed and people get jobs. However, if the bill fails or this country does not see a tangible increase in employment between now and the election, I find it difficult to envision “Hey, I made a proposal 14 months ago, but it never was fully implemented” as an effective way to garner votes.
redshirt
Obama rules, and I am 100% OBOT and proud of it!
JOBS!
Chris
@ericblair:
That’s really, really, very well and accurately summarized.
geg6
@Surly Duff:
You don’t know anything at all about Harry Truman’s career in the White House, do you?
barath
Ok, I’m trying to spur some action over at GOS with a diary urging folks to call congress. Hope it gets some recs / gets seen and folks make some calls. (And not just folks over there, but folks here too…)
wonkie
The bully pulpit doesn’t have the magical power to make legislatio happen. It has the power to say, “Our party stads for this ad wats to go i this direcdgtios.” And this is a significant pwoer. Without that power people don’t know what they are voting for if they vote Democratic.
The Democrats has conceded large swaths of the elctorate tothe R’s just by failing to have a cdlear focused positive agenda. (Hoep and chage are slogans, not agenda items). The Repulbicans are very good at articulating a ageda although they cosistatly lie about what theagedareally is. If the debate is betwee the Repubicas sayig “We want to do this” ad the Demiocrats sayin, “Yes but blah blah blah” they Republicans win.
So the Democrats are much better off if they can go inot the ext lelectio sayig “We had a good jobs bill ad the Republicans blocked it, If you want jobs vote fo us because that’s what we are trying to do and the Republicans wouldn’t vote for it.”
mike in dc
@Surly: in a way, having a knock-down, drag out fight over this bill would benefit Obama, because then people would be more likely to remember how hard the President fought for it, how hard the Republicans resisted it, and how the Democrats seem to be the only ones who really care about jobs and have a plan to address it…if only we could get rid of those obstructionist Teahadists.
But civility and “bipartisanship” should be tossed out the window, at least until the GOP grows fatigued of being repeatedly face-punched and cries uncle.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Surly Duff: None of anything matters unless. . . .
jibeaux
So, BJ ahem DougJ cough, how about regular posts reminding us all to call or fax our friendly local Congresscritter and report back? Anyone live in Renee Ellmers’ district? She was quoted as saying it’s just the same thing dressed up as infrastructure investment….I want someone from her district to call and ask why she’s opposed to investing in infrastructure. Don’t they use trains and highways and bridges and buses and high-speed internet and the electrical grid and airports? I know they use the sewer system with all the crap that comes out of their offices — bah dum dum dum. Come on DougJ, call us to action.
jibeaux
@jibeaux: Woo hoo! I’m magic.
Samara Morgan
Courtney Messerschmidt turns out to be another gay girl in damascus– where was that link where you outed me again freddie?
i just cant find it.
General Stuck
That’s because the republican agenda is about nothing, or nothing by way of government doing good works. There goal is to cause government to stay out of their way so they can steal stuff more easier.
Democrats are tasked with not only coming up with detailed plans how government can do good, they have to find ways to describe the complex into simple terms that can be understood by low info voters. All the republicans have to do is holler soshulist, and all the other smear terms, and scaremonger about liberal government boogymen coming to take your shit away.
This is not to excuse dems for not coming up with ways to describe what they propose for government doing good things, but comparisons with republicans on messaging are not all things being equal.
Samara Morgan
i did find this link.
how about you say you were WRONG you little emoprog prick?
Samara Morgan
i did find this.
I am not looking forward to the next election cycle. I mean, I think everybody hates election exhaustion. But this will be an exceptionally trying time for anyone who believes that America should have better alternatives than a center-right party and a right-right party. The “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists” certainty of those who insist that anyone on the left has to vote for Obama is already getting ginned up.
(You’ve got to hand it Balloon Juice: no other blog in history has been so adept at perfectly defining bullshit and how it operates, and then turning around and engaging in precisely that kind of bullshit. A fun game you can play with Balloon Juice is to go through its wonderful lexicon, then turn to the posts on the front page and see how many of them are guilty of the sins the lexicon identifies.)
The Balloon Juice crew has been holding Andrew Sullivan’s feet to the fire over the absurd Ryan budget, which is important, but holy moly. I would give that a good fisking but honestly it’s all too wearying. Suffice is to say that this kind of discourse-politicing argument is going to become increasingly commonplace, until “YOU MUST VOTE FOR OBAMA” will become a mantra in the progressive blogosphere. Get used to it.
I’m sure I’ll articulate why I can’t support Barack Obama for the presidency in 2012 at great length in the future.
Samara Morgan
i did find this.
I am not looking forward to the next election cycle. I mean, I think everybody hates election exhaustion. But this will be an exceptionally trying time for anyone who believes that America should have better alternatives than a center-right party and a right-right party. The “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists” certainty of those who insist that anyone on the left has to vote for Obama is already getting ginned up.
The Balloon Juice crew has been holding Andrew Sullivan’s feet to the fire over the absurd Ryan budget, which is important, but holy moly. I would give that a good fisking but honestly it’s all too wearying. Suffice is to say that this kind of discourse-politicing argument is going to become increasingly commonplace, until “YOU MUST VOTE FOR OBAMA” will become a mantra in the progressive blogosphere. Get used to it.
I’m sure I’ll articulate why I can’t support Barack Obama for the presidency in 2012 at great length in the future.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Samara Morgan:
Fucking annoying incessant stalking internet emo know-it-all troll that sounds like a skipping record.
@Samara Morgan: “if i want to read glibertarian kangaroo slap fights i can go to Reason or the Atlantic.”
Please do. And stay there. They deserve you.
Southern Beale
One of the TVs at the gym was on Fox News this morning. Watching it with the sound off is very educational. First they got full-court fearporn over the terra terra terra threat in NY/DC. Then it’s “ZOMG FBI raids a solar plant that got a $500 million federal grant!!” That just proves all environmentalists are evil and also, Al Gore is fat. Very fat.
Finally, wish I had my camera to take a picture but it was: “Obama’s Jobs Plan” and a black screen with this:
Not too subtle, are they? BTW I may have too many zeroes in there. I don’t know how many zeroes are in a billion without looking it up because like most people I just spell out BILLION.
Samara Morgan
im weary of fisking you freddie.
how about a good hearty I WAS WRONG ABOUT OBAMA.
Samara Morgan
@Odie Hugh Manatee: make me.
membah this?
(You’ve got to hand it Balloon Juice: no other blog in history has been so adept at perfectly defining bullshit and how it operates, and then turning around and engaging in precisely that kind of bullshit. A fun game you can play with Balloon Juice is to go through its wonderful lexicon, then turn to the posts on the front page and see how many of them are guilty of the sins the lexicon identifies.)
Judas Escargot
@EconWatcher:
Is there any actual poll data on this? NY-9 has the Dem down by 6% (TPM), so it doesn’t seem to be translating to actual votes (in that instance anyway).
WereBear
What I have to say to the Republicans is:
I’m PAYING for schools! I would like some.
I’m PAYING for roads and bridges! I would like some.
I’m PAYING for unemployment insurance, Social Security, and Medicare! I would like those, too.
Right now I’m paying and getting very little.
Ben Cisco
Ha! Like actual Dems ever get to sit a spell with Stretch.
FlipYrWhig
@Surly Duff:
See, I think that running against obstructionism _should_ be effective. It’s true that it’s “meta,” but it’s still correct: “I proposed common-sense measures, many of which Republicans used to support, but they pulled every trick in the book to prevent me — and, more importantly, to stop you from having the benefits those measures would have provided.” Voters don’t like process talk, true, but they have a pretty good sense of what counts as fair play. IMHO the Republicans did a masterfully deceitful job in ’10 of running against Democratic “overreach” — essentially saying that Democrats were too _partisan_.
I think most people deep down still believe that what politicians are supposed to do is get in a room, hash out their differences, and come up with a compromise that’s somewhere in the middle. (Progressives’ big complaint about Obama is that he tries to do that too much, with people who deal in bad faith and sabotage.) Republicans haven’t been doing that, as we know, but I’m not sure how widely known it is.
I’d like to see Obama and Democrats generally — because it isn’t really an ideological claim, the conserva-Dems should have no problem being on board — make the point that every nominee and every piece of legislation are bottled up by any means necessary. Good sportsmanship and fair play are deeply-held American values, even among political conservatives, and I think that if it were phrased properly it could be a resonant campaign theme. “Every time we gather one of these bipartisan groups, some Republican threatens to walk out. Walk out on the business of the American people? Let’s get down to business. Let’s get to work.”
Samara Morgan
great…. now my comments are marked as spam.
i just quoted freddie again.
(You’ve got to hand it Balloon Juice: no other blog in history has been so adept at perfectly defining bullshit and how it operates, and then turning around and engaging in precisely that kind of bullshit. A fun game you can play with Balloon Juice is to go through its wonderful lexicon, then turn to the posts on the front page and see how many of them are guilty of the sins the lexicon identifies.)
gnomedad
@Southern Beale:
SB, I don’t want to rag on you cause I like your stuff, but it’s really important to know what these numbers mean. (Yes, you used 3 too many zeroes.)
Billion = thousand million = 1,000,000,000 = 10^9
Trillion = thousand billion = million million
= 1,000,000,000,000 = 10^12
It doesn’t help that the British “billion” is the same as the American “trillion”.
One million seconds is about 11 days.
One billion seconds is about 30 years.
One trillion seconds is about 3,000 years. Half the age of the Earth. :)
Again, apologies for the lecture, but us reality-based folk need to get our facts and numbers straight.
handsmile
Will congressional Democrats have Obama’s back on the American Jobs Act? The answer to that will be the fulcrum of its success, both in terms of eventual legislation and as a campaign message.
As impressed as many appear to be with the style and substance of President Obama’s speech, it needs repetition and amplification by those who claim to speak on behalf of the Democratic Party. In print and on television, will Democratic politicians and pundits choose to adopt and reinforce its rhetoric and objectives? The prescriptive measures outlined by Freddie deBoer require consistent and insistent iteration.
We already know how feverishly the GOP and its legion of media enablers will work to discredit and demean ObamaJobs, and seek to exacerbate rifts between Democratic legislators. Obama has now employed his bully pulpit. Let’s see if Team D has enough megaphones.
jibeaux: Simply want to offer a hat tip for your incisive posts (especially #12) on this thread.
shockwave
Yes, yes, and yes. EVERY issue, including the damned deficit, should be couched in the terms of jobs. Not for the sake of repetition, but because this is a national emergency that, right now, has emotional resonance.
Amir Khalid
@gnomedad:
That’s still not quite right, though. Since the 1970s or thereabouts, a billion, trillion etc. in Britain is the same as in America i.e. it’s the same now throughout the English-speaking world. (I think the Brits just gave up.) On mainland Europe, a thousand million is a milliard, a million million is a billion, a million million million is a trillion, a million million million million is a quadrillion und so weiter.
Sorry for nitpicking your nitpick.
Surly Duff
@geg6:
Sorry, I did not realize that Obama’s Whistlestop Tour is the real solution to unemployment and effective job creation.
General Stuck
It may have been some blunter than his normal speech, but the style and substance and matter of fact delivery, has consistently been there all along. It is curious the reaction of this one being so bully pulpitish, based on some one liners like “pass this bill” repeated a number of times.
dww44
@danimal: This!
Southern Beale
@WereBear:
… will get you arrested at a Paul Ryan “town hall” (that you have to PAY $15 to attend …)
Republicans are such crazy assholes.
Southern Beale
@gnomedad:
I did not know that. How is that possible? Jesus. First there’s the whole “er/re” thing with the spelling, and pronouncing the “h” in “herbs” and now they have their own numbers? No wonder the empire fell.
Bruce S
Not optimum reality for reinforcing the relevance of recyled resentments by characters like General Stuck, but…
“Contrary to all recommendations from Paul Krugman, The American Prospect or DailyKos, this non-populist, not-very-partisan president again refused to don the cloak of partisanship or populism.
“And they loved it anyway, the critics from the left, in tone as well as content.” Marc Schmitt, TNR
Gee, maybe Democrats have an opportunity – across the board – to start thinking like adults and in complex sentences, rather than wallow in the greatness of our one-true-side in pie fights.
gnomedad
@Amir Khalid:
lol, thanks for the enhancement. OK, I think I read that somewhere — the euros name their numbers in powers of 10^6^, whereas we (English-speakers, I guess) use 10^3^. Oy.
ETA: Oops, looks like the carat has formatting meaning. Fixed now, I think.
General Stuck
@Bruce S:
I will be quite pleased if and when emo leftists pull their heads out of their asses and file away their whining about this or that not being just like they wanted it.
Maybe this speech and their reaction to it will cause that to happen, but I will wait a while to offer kudos for finally acting like something other than self centered brats.
You however, I will still point and laugh at. Being a character like Bruuce S.
Mary Jane
@Freddie deBoer:
The latter is addressed in the Fact Sheet: America Jobs Act, 3. Pathways Back to Work for Americans Looking for Jobs.
Prohibiting employers from discriminating against unemployed workers when hiring.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/08/fact-sheet-american-jobs-act
I’d name the link if there were instructions somewhere on this goddam page on how to do so.
Surly Duff
@Surly Duff:
I should add, yes, I am aware of Truman’s focus on hgihlighting the “do-nothing” Congress at the time, which probably aided in his re-election. Also, if I remember correctly, Dewey ran a pretty ineffective campaign, avoiding confrontation and arguing against Truman. However, unemployment and job creation was not the issue of the day, although inflation was high.
I am optimistic about the approach forward. However, the discussion of bipartisanship and working together to create solutions has been the order of the day and incessantly pimped by the media. And any push-back has been characterized as “incivility”. Why would they want to allow the narrative to change now? I hope that the proposal passes and this more agressive approach can hold sway until the election. I think the biggest opposition to re-election is voter apathy on the Dem side and antipathy based on a continuing stuggling economy.
singfoom
It was a very good speech. I agree with the plan and I hope it gets passed. If it does not get passed, the Democrats have a nice big cudgel to hit the Republicans with.
While the speech was about jobs, the one thing I’m still waiting to hear is about the banks. I really want the administration to back off of the NY AG and let the 50 state bad bank deal die the death it deserves.
While it may not be directly related, I sincerely believe that our economy will improve less or not improve if we do not deal with the huge issue of moral hazard that continues to exist in our financial sector.
I’ll wait for that. The gears of justice are grinding, if very slowly. I think the Democrats could get a large political benefit from criminal prosecutions against individual bankers and corporations that broke the law (CDO misrepresentation = fraud/ robosigning/etc.)
Should be an interesting 14 months.
Bruce S
#66 – the key for many in responding positively is that it was about 50% bigger than had been floated this past week. Probably approaches the optimum that one could package in a speech before Congress and plausibly challenge the GOP to pass – even knowing the challenge is as much a political strategy as a legislative proposal, and not a likely win in the near term.
Of course, if the substance had been the $300 billion predicted, some here would be advising us as to how that was the biggest figure one could possibly come up with because of political constraints, this is exactly what Obama has had on the table but nobody listens, any criticisms were “Firebagging,” yadda yadda…
Today the Prez is getting kudos from folks like Dean Baker, Ed Schultz, Keith Ellison, Emmanuel Cleaver, Donna Edwards, Bernie Sanders, Jared Bernstein, etc. etc.
Like the rest of America that’s not obsessive-compulsive in some form or fashion, I don’t read Jane Hamsher, but my guess is that she’s still critical the day after. Which is what certain folks here share with their Phantom Menace – absolute predictability, one-note reactions and analytical irrelevance.
Samara Morgan
freddie, i would still like to see where you outed me as a “gay girl in damascus”.
because i think that never happened.
i dislike you because you are weak and dishonest, and because you firebagged Obama and now think that should just go down the memory hole.
yet you claim its because you outed me?
i given lots of links showing you for emoprog firebagger you are, and yet you use your front page perch to slurr me without any proof.
Bruce S
#74 – General Stuck, you and yours are the epitome of self-centered brats. You won’t see a damned thing because you’ve got your own head wholly up your ass.
Unfortunately, I took a few minutes out of a full life to respond to a little clown, mired in self-regard. My bad.
Samara Morgan
This is what reminded me of freddies claim that im a gay girl in damascus.
i dont attack freddie because he “outed” me….because that never happened….i attack him because his arguments are weak and dishonest and simple to fisk.
he COULD have prefaced this post by saying I WAS WRONG.
but he didnt.
singfoom
Jesus, stop with the fucking Obot vs. Emoprog purity bullshit. Regardless of which side you’re on, it doesn’t fucking help.
When you call out the other side for the behavior that you’re upset about, you’re just doing the exact fucking same thing on the other side of the coin.
Give it a rest, sheesh. And I say this as someone who’s been called a firebagger and worse. Some people are satisfied, some people have grievances and valid criticisms.
I agree with a lot of peeps who’ve been reminding us “We’ve got Republicans to beat.”
wrb
@Bruce S:
Or that he said repeatedly that he’d becoming back for more.
If this has been presented as enough to cure the problem it would have deserved criticism. In may be enough to offset the on-going anti-stimulus resulting from state and local governments slashing but not much more.
But it is a great first step, and a first step is something everyone can understand.
FlipYrWhig
@singfoom:
The problem is that plenty of Northeastern Democrats see finance as a home-state interest (NY, CT, DE in particular), just like Rust Belt Democrats see mining and heavy industry (see the much-despised pollution-regultaion shenanigans). I’m not sure Democrats en masse can pull that off. Individual Democrats might be better served, especially if it were possible to pull off the gambit suggested IMHO disingenuously by Jane Hamsher of linking up populist Dems with populist Tea-Party-ish Republicans. I’m not sure justice for Big Bank’s victims is going to flow from The Democratic Party, but I hope a lot of individual Democratic pols get very aggressive about cracking down.
Ben Cisco
POTUS speaking on jobs in Richmond live at http://www.whitehouse.gov/live?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
singfoom
@Samara Morgan: Is there a FPer you haven’t declared kanli against? No one fucking cares whether anyone outed you as a gay girl in damascus or a straight girl in berlin. But please, continue to shit on threads with your personal baggage against OPs.
One would imagine that a smart girl like you would learn from experience and stop shitting on threads, MC.
Please make sure you tell me that Assange already predicted what I just typed in my reply, I do enjoy that part of the formula.
Mary Jane
@Ben Cisco: Thanks.
Ben Cisco
“…after a few scheduling issues, I went to Congress last night.” HA!
Samara Morgan
@singfoom: that is not what im saying.
freddie is dishonest.
if he is going to change his mind and vote for Obama, fine.
that would be coolio. But can he admit he was wrong?
:)
and if hes gunna slurr me from his front pager perch, give the link or fess up that he was lying.
General Stuck
@Bruce S:
Dude, nothing in my first two comments justifies the response you provided. You continue to be a walking talking example of all the nasty shit you accuse others of.
I don’t know if there has ever been a regular commenter on this blog with a higher degree of projection, than what you provide. And yea, your “bad”. Why do you keep commenting here with
Nobody, or not I, mentioned Jane Hamsher. You are a self contained flame war with yourself. And why do you remain here, sharing blog space with such inferior souls to yourself?
singfoom
@FlipYrWhig: I completely understand. I don’t think bank victims will get justice en masse from the Democratic party, but if the administration were to put it’s weight behind a couple high profile prosecutions, I think it would be beneficial for the party overall.
I hold out hope for this happening, but I’m not going to be surprised if it doesn’t, based on past behavior.
someguy
If we get our asses kicked next November I think we’ll all be grateful for having such a foolish system…
wrb
@Southern Beale:
It was due to being high all the time and missing all the meetings.
They think the first floor is the one where the elevator stops first rather than the first one you encounter, the one from which you get on the elevator.
As a result they always end up a floor higher than normal people.
Silly walks too.
Samara Morgan
@General Stuck: why dont we just have Jane for a front pager?
is she any different than freddie?
geg6
@Surly Duff:
Look dipshit, we aren’t getting any job creation or easing of unemployment from this Congress no matter what Obama says or does. So the idea is to go out there and speak directly to the people, point out what good ideas you have to create jobs and lower unemployment, and then point out exactly who is stopping that from happening. Can’t think of a better thing to lift from another Dem president than the line “Do-Nothing Congress.” It fits, it’s succinct, and it’s absofuckinglutely true.
Give ’em hell, Barry.
Samara Morgan
@someguy:
are you someguy from TAS the Glibertarian Hivemind?
Chet comments here sometimes, but you know who i relly miss?
My dark master Sithlord cw.
Bruce S
I don’t know who Samara Morgan is, but she would do everyone here a favor if she got her ass out of the sandbox and quit pissing on threads…
Sounds like a full-on crazy person.
And Stuck, you might try upping the self-awareness about what you contribute here serially.
Ben Cisco
Time to bypass all naysayers – teabaggers, firebaggers, punditocracy, enablers, GOPpers, mark-ass tricks, trick-ass marks, punk bitches and skip-skop skanks and scallywags. Hoes, heffers, hee-has and hooley-hoos.
Samara Morgan
@Bruce S: i just piss on the glibertarian rent boi/emoprog firebagger threads and the Team America Fuck Yeah threads.
i luff puppehs and gardens.
:)
General Stuck
@Bruce S:
LOL, someday, I hope to attain your lofty status of serial contribution here on the blog of hot air. We can’t all be Bruce S’s, after all.
Cain
@Kane:
That smile of his is killer. Can’t help but smile back when he does it.
wrb
Obama right now.
“I can see that folks might think they’ve used up benefit of the doubt…”
It was good stuff, I don’t type fast enough to get it down…”
He’s rolling
http://www.whitehouse.gov/live?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
Munira
@Surly Duff: Obviously, if this was the last people heard about the proposal, that would be true. But if he is indeed going to every corner of the country (starting with Cantor and Boehner’s corners), hammering on this day and night and Democrats start echoing him, I think people will get the fact that the Repubs are blocking progress. I think most people already get it and are primed for this now. Having Obama be reasonable and bipartisany for so long basically primed the pump. He’s the adult. The Repubs are the four year olds. And don’t forget – Obama is likeable. Polls show continually that people like him personally. They want to approve of him. They just need to see that he’s fighting for them. He is a clutch hitter. He’s come back like this time and time again. I would never count him out.
agrippa
I thought that it was a good speech; with good ideas that will help some.
But, the GOP will want next to nothing to do with it; and, some on the left will not like it either.
The speech does layout a foundation for the election. An election which is 14 months away. The question is pretty clear: Does Washington intend to sit and do nothing for 14 months?
srv
$447,000,000,000 / 1.9M Jobs = ~$235K per job
That roughly looks like the deal we get annually for a Congressperson.
I think it was K-Thug that ran some numbers a couple of months ago – something like you’d have to create 400K jobs per month for the rest of the administration to get unemployment under 8%.
agrippa
@Munira:
Munira, that is how I see it as well.
People who ‘count him out’ – want to count him out.
Samara Morgan
@wrb: a lot of the things hes advocating people talked about here.
like construction jobs rebuilding schools and hiring more teachers.
but im not hearing anything about charter schools, even teachers unions charter schools like freddie advocates.
/sneer
i think throw money at the schools makes jobs and helps students.
but notice he wont call it that.
i remember that because Omnes and i agreed for once!
a banner day.
General Stuck
@agrippa:
Unless one party controls the entire government with a veto proof majority in the senate, congresses in presidential election years rarely do much of anything, other than passing the most mundane legislation.
The only difference this time, is that even mundane legislation is subject to hostages being taken by the wingnuts, in the House of Reps. Otherwise, it is normal for most everything that happens of leg substance being primarily posturing for votes in the upcoming election.
This time will likely be even worse on that score, with the supercongress stirring the pot with likely some extra circus like optics. Then there is the tea party and their antics.
Samara Morgan
@agrippa: Obama is a closer in racetrack speak.
gelfling545
@Freddie deBoer: I thought something like that was in the works.Or maybe that was just in NY. I do know that my daughters when doing part time mall jobs at minimum wage had to jump through more hoops re their “credit” & background than their father did to become a cop.
wrb
@srv:
Edited for paste problem
Rush’s favorite calculation. If we were simply paying to dig and refill holes that wouldn’t be an unreasonable way of accounting.
But when you are paying for a bridge, the new bridge is what you are buying. It isn’t made up purely of labor. The jobs are a benefit over and above that of the capital asset that should continue to benefit the economy for decades. If it is a good investment on its own, the jobs come free.
Similarly, when you put money into education it is the educated citizenry you buying.
General Stuck
@General Stuck:
Should have been “filibuster proof majority”
Samara Morgan
@singfoom: and its kanly.
lets be clear, i beat up mistermix and DougJ for linking glibertarian rent boiz, and i beat up Kain and de Bore because they are glibertarian rent boiz.
isnt this supposed to be a liberal blog?
i dont see a nanowafer of difference between freddie and hamsher– they are both emoprog firebaggers.
or a nanowafer of difference between Erik “Beyond Unions” Kain and Ross Douthat.
Samara Morgan
@singfoom: alsotoo
i only beat up on Cole for his Peaceful Democracy Theory/Bush Doctrine fandom, and i NEVER touch Anne Laurie, ABL, Dennis G or Tim F. or Rhandino.
Dennis SGMM
It might have advantaged Obama and the Democratic party if he’d given this speech when it became clear that the stimulus bill wasn’t working nearly as well as we’d hoped it would. Hindsight is way easier to come by than foresight so I’m saying that acting decisively back then ‘might” have turned things around. It couldn’t have hurt.
At fourteen months from the election (Anyone else remember when that was a long time?) I wonder if the measures that Obama proposed will have time to positively affect the outcome. That’s assuming that by some miracle the Republicans and the Blue Dogs don’t gut out everything stimulative and turn the Jobs for Americans bill into the Tax Cuts and Regulatory Dismantling Bill.
Marc
@Bruce S:
She talks about pies a lot. What’s not to love?
(Seriously, it makes many threads *so* much better to read…)
Samara Morgan
@singfoom:
as you wish.
Julian says no one cares about the material– they are just preening their ideological plummage for their peer group. That is why community blogs shun out-group ideology…..like using cleek’s pie filter.
Samara Morgan
@Marc: QED
:)
wrb
@Dennis SGMM:
That is the plan I intuited listening to reps who spoke on NPR this morning. “We’ll cooperate: take the corporate tax cut and the thing for vets but the rest? You’ve got to be kidding. But , see we’re not being obstructionist.”
The Raven
But also cuts, cuts, cuts.
I would like to see the Dems be a bit obstructive on those.
El Cid
I too would recommend people ask “What about job?’ publicly, preferably while dressing as “cavemen” /-“women”, partly so that maybe the GEICO guys will show back up.
agrippa
@General Stuck:
General Stuck, I tend to think along those lines.
I doubt that the GOP will go along all that well. They may pretend to go along/cooperate, and pass something.
agrippa
@Samara Morgan:
closer in race track speech.
I go along with that. good way to put it.
Samara Morgan
@agrippa: how many times have we seen the emoprogs and firebaggers wailing and gnashing their teeth and rending their garments…. and then Obama pulls it out at the last moment?
im sick to death of firebaggers like freddie that think Obama should share every fucking strategy and tactic with them. Then on the rare occasion that O does somethin’ they condescend to agree with, they fucking break their arms patting themselves on the back.
Samara Morgan
@agrippa: heres the def.
an’ im pretty sure Perry is a morning glory and Romney is a rabbit..