Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

I really should read my own blog.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

Republicans in disarray!

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

“More of this”, i said to the dog.

All your base are belong to Tunch.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

After roe, women are no longer free.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

T R E 4 5 O N

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / Afternoon Open Thread Involving People Named Chris

Reader Interactions

114Comments

  1. 1.

    Yutsano

    Actually her name is Christine. And while this is nothing more than legacy preservation, I applaud her for doing so.

  2. 2.

    Benjamin Franklin

    This double-blind game gives terrorism, a good name.

    Are the attacks on Iran terrorism? Of course they are. If they’re not, we might as well give up on even trying to define the word. But is it acceptable just because the other side is using it? Of course it’s —

    But wait a second. Is it? For all practical purposes, Iran and Israel are at war; they’ve been at war for a long time; and both sides have tacitly agreed that it will primarily be a war carried out nonconventionally. The alternative is what we did in Afghanistan and Iraq: a full-scale conventional attack.

    Is that a superior alternative? To say the least, I’m a little hard pressed to say it is. But the alternative is not to fight back at all. Given the current state of the art in human nature, that’s really not in the cards.

    Still: is it terrorism? Yes. Do both sides use it? Yes. Is this, in many cases, the future of warfare? Probably yes. Is there a better alternative? That’s a good question.

    http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/terrorism-and-modern-war

  3. 3.

    trollhattan

    Zounds, the state I was born in (Iowa) and now the one I was raised in (Washington) are going to have marriage equality sooner than the one I live in (California). Hoodathunk? Way to go, Mormons!

  6. 6.

    Cat Lady

    Whatever became of George W. Bush? Eight years of fucking every single thing up while creating the monster we know of as the modern Republican party, and his name is never spoken by Republicans or Villagers. It’s like 8 fucking years never happened. Amazing that the memory hole only works on FAIL.

  7. 7.

    Jay

    This is unrelated to the matter of “Chris and Christine,” but…

    Any voiceover artists out there who know of websites on which people can audition free of charge for voiceover jobs? I signed up for Voices.com yesterday, and I had no idea one had to break a paywall for most jobs. I’m certainly aware of Craig’s List, but to me, it’s always had an element of shadiness.

    Also, if anyone needs voiceover talent, let me know.

  8. 8.

    Martin

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    Is that a superior alternative? To say the least, I’m a little hard pressed to say it is. But the alternative is not to fight back at all. Given the current state of the art in human nature, that’s really not in the cards.

    In my view, the first litmus test of a military tactic is that the target be non-civilian. That gets a little complicated in the case of al Qaeda and the like, but I take the view that if you self-identify with that group, you self identify as part of a militant group.

    So, the question is, are these scientists civilians or non-civilians? I have a hard time seeing them as non-civilian, to be honest, particularly when they are being targeted outside of a military site. Put another way, would we consider an electrical engineer who works for Northrop to be a legitimate military target when they’re driving to their office? I don’t think we would ever agree with that.

  9. 9.

    The Moar You Know

    Whatever became of George W. Bush?

    @Cat Lady: Unperson status.

    He failed at perpetuating the permanent Republican majority and has been banished. In all seriousness, cesspits such as RedState refer to him, in the few instances when forced to acknowledge his existence, with no irony whatsoever, as a “big government liberal”.

  13. 13.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    Proud to be a Washingtonian, today.

    Although, if the jihadists can get enough sigs by June 6 (the day before the law is scheduled to go into effect), to put an initiative on the ballot to overturn the law, the whole thing gets put on hold until after the November elections. Here’s hoping they fail miserably.

  14. 14.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    I just got a robocall from Americans for Prosperity.

    “Have you ever considered running for office? The filing period for running for the State Legislature begins today….”

  16. 16.

    Rafer Janders

    @Cat Lady:

    It is amazing, isn’t it? It seems as if the Republican presidential candidates are contractually bound not to go five minutes without mentioning Reagan, who was last president in 1989. But George W. Bush, who (mis)ruled the last decade? It never happened. Forget, forget….

  17. 17.

    Benjamin Franklin

    @Martin:

    The italics failed. Those were Drums words, but I obviously echo the concern.

    The question is whether or not the US is playing both sides of the game. If the MEK is still considered to be a terrorist org. (they are) and we and Israel are facilitating the attacks through that venue; does that make US a terrorist State?

  18. 18.

    MikeBoyScout

    An emotional Gov. Chris Gregoire signed legislation Monday making Washington the seventh state to legalize marriage between same-sex couples, declaring it was time “to make history in this great state.”

    YES! Yes WE CAN!

    The road is long, and the struggle is difficult, but we ARE making progress. Don’t forget that.

  19. 19.

    kindness

    I don’t get the appeal of Christy rethugs have. Oh sure, he yells at common workers when they ask him a question. I guess that scores some points to the leadership challenged reichtwingnutz out there. But really….the guy isn’t a Teabagger. He hasn’t run the State of New Jersey in any manner that has brought attention.

    Must be him shredding the commoners that do it for them. That brings up another question though. Do those teabaggers think they aren’t commoners? I understand they are of limited brain capability but don’t they see themselves exactly where Christy’s spittle is flying?

    Like I said, I just don’t understand their mancrush on the guy.

  21. 21.

    MikeJ

    @MikeBoyScout: Of course the bigots are going to try to overturn it via referendum, so the fight isn’t over, even in Washington.

    Meanwhile, June 7th is the effective date.

  24. 24.

    shortstop

    @Yutsano: Our old governor, George Ryan, put a moratorium on executions solely for legacy preservation (or in his case, legacy improvement after his commercial driving licenses for sale scheme resulted in a bunch of dead kids). It still stopped executions and I’m still impressed that he did it, though I hate just about every other thing he did.

    Congratulations, Washington!

  25. 25.

    MikeBoyScout

    @19 MikeJ:

    The fight for equality and human rights is never over, but I take your point.

    I sincerely hope the opponents of marriage equality do get a referendum on the ballot here. They’ll get their bigoted asses kicked from Seattle to Spokane to Bellingham to Vancouver.

  27. 27.

    Amir Khalid

    @kindness:
    Chris Christie doesn’t just yell at commoners. He’ll also yell at anyone who takes their side. There was this incident last year where a pretty affluent guy wrote to his local paper to praise it for covering poverty in New Jersey, and the guy got yelled at by Christie. By the way, the guy was Bruce Springsteen. Chris Christie is one of Bruce’s biggest fans.

  28. 28.

    Martin

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    The question is whether or not the US is playing both sides of the game. If the MEK is still considered to be a terrorist org. (they are) and we and Israel are facilitating the attacks through that venue; does that make US a terrorist State?

    First off, everyone plays both sides of the game. Let’s just establish that up front as an unfortunate reality.

    But yeah, if we (or Israel) are using MEK to target Iranian scientists, then I’d have to consider that state-sponsored terrorism. I know it may seem pragmatic to use a group like MEK to achieve these ends, but we should have the means to take a more appropriate path. I know that Israel as a matter of policy has a different view, and one that I seriously hope the US does not follow.

    I’ll also state up-front that I think it’s unlikely that we are involved directly in this.

  29. 29.

    Gex

    @MikeBoyScout: Maybe. The anti-marriage have folks only lost in a direct vote once. That was in Arizona when the elderly swingles were worried they’d lose benefits. It passed when those concerns were addressed.

    Minnesota has a marriage amendment going this November. If they fail, we’ll know the tables have turned and even a direct vote where bigot Dems can crossover won’t do it.

  30. 30.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @kindness:

    I don’t get the appeal of Christy retags have

    same as Gingrich’s, they believe their own propaganda about Obama, and that if some tuff-talkin’ guy talks smack in a debate and Obama will just crumble, and the whole country will see! see at last! that he’s the affirmative action teleprompter president. They like the attitude.

    With David “Class Warfare” Gregory, OTOH, who always seems to want to crawl into Christie’s lap and hear stories about how Entitlement Reform saved all the Hoos of Broderville from the scary Deficit Monster, it’s apparently pure ideology

    I want to ask you this, I asked Newt Gingrich this last week, why shouldn’t austerity be a centerpiece of what the United States government is about these days given how high the budget deficit is and how much economic uncertainty that fiscal insanity contributes?

    Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/#ixzz1mJ9ViuU5

  32. 32.

    Cat Lady

    @Rafer Janders:

    It’s like mass hysteria but nationwide. If this country was a person they’d be locked up and treated with anti-psychotics. I know it’s making me crazy.

  33. 33.

    trollhattan

    @Anya:

    Lord only knows what they believe. Supposedly it (Prop 8) got traction within the black community due to socially conservative undercurrents, but how many votes that actually represented, I have no idea.

    What’s very real is the Mormon church poured in millions and leaned on their parishoners to do the same. And that’s why 8 passed.

  34. 34.

    David Koch

    Christie is wasting his time. He’ll never get the nomination.

    And even if he did, he’s too out of shape fat to endure a grueling national campaign. He throw a thrombo before Super Tuesday.

  36. 36.

    MikeBoyScout

    @19 MikeJ:
    ps re Marriage Equality and any referendum to overturn this landmark law –

    A recent poll by the University of Washington’s Center for Survey Research found that 55 percent of voters said they would vote to uphold the law if it is challenged; 38 percent said they would vote to overturn it.

  37. 37.

    Comrade Dread

    @Benjamin Franklin: Well, we’ve been a state sponsor of terrorism for quite some time. The Death Squads in El Salvador and OBL being two examples.

    But now Israel is also a state sponsor of terrorism.

    On the other hand, we all know that an act of violence is only terrorism when it kills people we like.

  38. 38.

    Martin

    @Amir Khalid:

    Chris Christie is one of Bruce’s biggest fans.

    That’s hard to judge. Given that NJ has almost precisely one good thing going for it (Bruce) pretty much everyone in the state has to be a big fan.

  40. 40.

    Gex

    @trollhattan: In particular, the autopsy seemed to indicate their ads helped get moms concerned about their kids being taught to be gay at school and that seemed to be the demo that crossed over last and put them over the top.

    It sounds like Willard footed a bill for a lot of that.

  41. 41.

    Redshift

    @kindness: Just about the only workable definition of modern conservatism is “whatever pisses off the libs.” Being a bully to anyone who pretends they should have a say in what you do because you’re their elected representative hits that big time.

    And as for why they don’t think they’re commoners who are subject to this, another characteristic is being absolutely certain that these things only happen to the sort of people who deserve it, which will never include them. For example, they have no problem with indefinite detention on the orders of the president, because despite the fact that they claim to believe that government is too intrusive and that it can’t do anything right, they’re sure it would never happen to them.

    Don’t try to figure out the logic; logic isn’t even in the same room.

  42. 42.

    shortstop

    @Amir Khalid: This is why Republicans who think Christie will have widespread appeal are insane. It may not be unusual for them to speak to people like Christie does, but the rest of the world outside NE wingnuts, including independents, will find Christie needlessly abrasive.

    Add his being 150-175 pounds overweight in a TV era (again, I don’t make the rules about candidate looksism; I just point them out), and he has no chance whatsoever.

  43. 43.

    Gex

    @MikeBoyScout: Prop 8 polling showed it wouldn’t pass. Turns out bigot assholes don’t like to admit they’re bigot assholes to others sometimes. We’ll see with WA and MN if Americans by direct vote are ready to support gay rights.

  44. 44.

    Catsy

    Some unintentional hilarity from the general population of the Redstate Asylum:

    Romney’s porridge is too cold, and Ron Paul’s porridge is too hot. Santorum’s is too salty, and Gingrich’s is too spicy.

    Words fail.

  45. 45.

    MikeBoyScout

    @27 Gex:

    I think that a referendum calling for a repeal of the newly signed Marriage Equality law in Washington state is a good thing because WHEN it is resoundingly defeated we will see more states move the ball forward, and not only for LGBT, but for sane, rational policies across the board.

    Gex and others, I remember when civil rights for African Americans did not exist. I remember when we all understood an African American would never and could never be president. We SHALL overcome. ….someday.

  46. 46.

    Benjamin Franklin

    @Martin:

    I’ll also state up-front that I think it’s unlikely that we are involved directly in this.

    In the fog of war, goggles are useless. Follow the links for the captured stealth drone. Satellites can only observe the ground for very short periods of time.

    The drone can capture much more video, and the US ‘looking the other way” could allow the Israelis to snatch info for the assassinations.

    Stranger things have happened. Wasn’t Iran/Contra an indirect
    methodology for getting around the ‘Law’?

  47. 47.

    Suffern ACE

    @Martin: Ummm. Bon Jovi? I never knew how important he was to the history of Rock and the Universe until I moved out here. Jersey Nation! 201!

  48. 48.

    Martin

    @trollhattan:

    Supposedly it (Prop 8) got traction within the black community due to socially conservative undercurrents, but how many votes that actually represented, I have no idea.

    Well, since homophobic 19 year old black rappers are adequately representative of all black people, that makes perfect sense. But there aren’t enough black people in CA to have swung that vote, and if you look at the vote by community, it’s pretty clear the black vote didn’t swing it. The conservative (white) vote obviously was the root cause, but among Obama voters, it was the Catholic Latino vote that turned in the heaviest numbers against it.

    If Sully wants to place blame for the swing, it lands on his own church members.

  49. 49.

    Suffern ACE

    @Gex: It did not help to reinforce those ads with a “teachable moment” field trip and suing a church to use the gazebo to provide direct evidence to those fears. Not that those were related to the organizers, but sometimes well intentioned people don’t sit on their hands when you want them to.

  50. 50.

    Martin

    @Comrade Dread:

    Well, we’ve been a state sponsor of terrorism for quite some time. The Death Squads in El Salvador and OBL being two examples.

    I don’t think anyone who focuses on the ethics of warfare would consider OBL as an example of this. He was clearly a military target.

  52. 52.

    Martin

    @Gex: Actually the vote was close enough that there’s an argument that it wouldn’t have passed if Obama’s turnout wasn’t so high. The argument is that the last turnout groups – the ones that normally would have sat out the election are the ones that were most likely to flip. That if he had just turned out the base, there wouldn’t have been so many defectors on the 8 vote.

    My sense is that even if there weren’t enough votes there, the theory is on the right track. The GOP got killed here in 2008, yet Prop 8 passed. That’s only possible by Obama voters defecting on the Prop 8 issue.

  55. 55.

    Suffern ACE

    @Martin: I think she was referring to his efforts against the Soviets, which we most certainly supported. But that was really more of an insurgency than terrorism.

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    @Gex:

    I had NO idea it had a chance. In my evidently sodomite city all I ever saw was “No on Prop 8” signs, and they were plentiful. I had two bouts of cognitive dissonance:

    Driving through the suburbs and into the mountains, I’d suddenly see pro-Prop 8 signs and bumper stickers (my clue should have been how many Suburbans and minivans sported them). It was quite a contrast.

    A few days before the election, I stumbled into a pro-Prop 8 rally at the state capitol. It was Uber-coordinated compared to most rallies I see, with LARGE, squeaky-clean families (kids=props) toting color-coordinated preprinted signs, and a lot of silly speechifying I didn’t much understand (no codebook, I guess).

    Surprised the hell out of me when it passed, but Obama’s election and his coattails were the big story, so they kind of snuck this one through. And here we are, three years later.

  57. 57.

    MikeBoyScout

    @51 gex: Peace. I’m optimistic and think we’ve got good reason to be optimistic here. Then again, my state is also responsible for the IE browser and Windows OS, so …. :-D

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    @MikeBoyScout:

    The road is long, and the struggle is difficult, but we ARE making progress. Don’t forget that.

    I was listening to a talk radio host discuss Prop 8 on Sunday. He actually said that recognizing the ability of two same sex parents to raise a child devalued the marriages of heterosexual couples.

    I didn’t realize how stupid this person was until then.

  59. 59.

    MikeJ

    @Martin:

    I don’t think anyone who focuses on the ethics of warfare would consider OBL as an example of this. He was clearly a military target.

    I think the commenter meant when we were helping him against the rooskies back in the 80s. People did a lot of fucked up shit in the 80s. Too much coke going around.

    However, the support for OBL et al in Afghanistan was seen as supporting the people of that country against an illegitimate government, and that’s not just a right wing reading of it. They weren’t killing people willy nilly, they stuck (mostly) to military targets, and were therefore less of a “terrorist” org.

    Of course we label groups that stick to military targets (us) as terrorist, but that’s a different argument.

  61. 61.

    gex

    @Martin: That’s kind of my point, isn’t it? The idea that this is safe from referendum seems possible, but the point remains that we only have marriage by legislature or court. Americans themselves have been unwilling up until now.

    It’s awesome you all can be so optimistic. Me, I need to see homophobic dudes and asshole Christians lose before I’ll unclinch.

  62. 62.

    Another Halocene Human

    What does everyone think about Maine’s chances? Equality Maine put same sex marriage back on the ballot for 2012. Should be interesting to see if two years of non-stop canvassing have paid off.

  63. 63.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Comrade Dread:

    It’s a very old story.

    One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. If those tactics benefit your side, it can’t be terrorism. The Nazis called US and British aircrews who were shot down over Germany terrorists.

  64. 64.

    shortstop

    It’s time America stopped giving way too much credit to Bruce Springsteen. If it takes a repulsive public figure like Chris Christie to accomplish that, so be it. (Mockingly) Da da da da DAAAAAA, da da da da DA da da da….

  65. 65.

    Another Halocene Human

    @gex: The reason those groups pushed so hard for referenda in the past is because they were playing a card that had an expiration date.

    Same sex marriage is now a vote motivator for the other side.

  68. 68.

    Comrade Dread

    @Martin: To clarify, I meant pre-Al Qaeda OBL, when we were sending him arms and money to harass the Soviets.

    You know, you’d think since a lot of this meddling has come back and bitten us in the behind that our leadership might stop and think that maybe we should just stop because we have no idea what we’re going or what will happen in 20 years.

  69. 69.

    burnspbesq

    @Martin:

    NJ has almost precisely one good thing going for it (Bruce)

    Seriously, Martin, go fuck yourself. This ignorant crap of yours is really tiresome.

    I’ve lived in New Jersey, and I’ve lived in Irvine, and New Jersey beats the crap out of Irvine all day, every day.

  70. 70.

    Martin

    @MikeJ:

    I think the commenter meant when we were helping him against the rooskies back in the 80s. People did a lot of fucked up shit in the 80s.

    Ah, yeah, I’ll grant that. That was fucked up.

  71. 71.

    MikeJ

    @Comrade Dread: You also don’t know what will happen 20 years form now if you don’t “meddle”. there’s a strong argument to be made that the problem with the operations in Afghanistan in the 80s was that we abandoned the people of that country after the Russians left.

  72. 72.

    Maude

    @Martin:
    No, it’s 1935. Hauptman was convicted on this date.
    I take it you’ve never been to NJ.
    Rich people live here because there are some beautiful parts of the state.
    Christie isn’t liked.

  75. 75.

    beltane

    @Kyle: Sarah may be mostly gone from the public eye but she can still elicit starbursts from someone. The comments were funny.

  76. 76.

    Svensker

    @Martin:

    Given that NJ has almost precisely one good thing going for it (Bruce)

    Hey! Hey, now!

    NJ also has superb mozzarella and Italian bread, a beautiful shore, Norman Rockwell-pretty suburbs, among other good things. Also, too, people with great accents and attitudes to match. I may always be a West Coast girl but I lived in NJ for a long time and have a fond spot for lotsa NJ stuff. Especially the muzz sandwiches at Vito’s Deli. Best food inna world.

  77. 77.

    David Koch

    @Benjamin Franklin: Good to know you and Bush agree: “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.”

    Good to know you and Romney agree: “It’s not worth moving heaven and earth, trying to catch bin Laden.”

    Funny how republicans didn’t want to take down the greatest mass murder in US history.

  78. 78.

    Suffern ACE

    Well I must go now. Crossing the state line into Jersey to buy a pair of binoculars and wonder what is like to live in a state with good weather but that hasn’t produced a good band since the Ventures.

  79. 79.

    Studly Pantload, the emotionally unavailable unicorn

    @Death Panel Truck:
    Being as I live in – and rarely venture outside of – Seattle’s cozy, sochulistic confines, I doubt I’ll run across any such person. Or, if I do, they’re certain to have a very “whipped puppy” expression.

  80. 80.

    Maus

    @Yutsano:

    And while this is nothing more than legacy preservation

    She’s done a pretty good job at this. I can deal with this sort of “legacy preservation”.

  81. 81.

    sharl

    @Cat Lady: I can report a kinda-sorta Dubya sighting, from this past autumn. While staying with family in a time share outside of Knoxville TN, there was a conference/rally for evangelicals in a close-by large meeting/convention hall. GWB was a centerpiece of that (2-day?) event, and judging from all the road traffic and crowds walking to the site, it was quite well attended.

    He may now be persona non grata with the purely political wingnut crowd, but I think he still has something approaching hero status among the wingnut evangelicals. They have been ‘his people’ since he reeled them in when he was part of daddy GHWB’s campaigns (1988 and I assume 1992). But unless you attend the “right churches” or receive their associated newsletters and e-mails, I don’t think you’ll discover his itinerary very easily. Dunno, maybe he also has a deal with his Secret Service detail to keep things quiet as well.

  82. 82.

    Brachiator

    @trollhattan:

    Supposedly it (Prop 8) got traction within the black community due to socially conservative undercurrents, but how many votes that actually represented, I have no idea.

    BS. BS. BS. There was some confusion over what Prop 8 would do, and the outreach to various communities was horrid. But the bottom line:

    Deeply religious people and a lot of parents voted for the ban.

    California’s black and Latino voters, who turned out in droves for Barack Obama, also provided key support in favor of the state’s same-sex marriage ban. Seven in 10 black voters backed a successful ballot measure to overturn the California Supreme Court’s May decision allowing same-sex marriage, according to exit polls for The Associated Press.
    __
    More than half of Latino voters supported Proposition 8, while whites were split. Religious groups led the tightly organized campaign for the measure, and religious voters were decisive in getting it passed. Of the seven in 10 voters who described themselves as Christian, two-thirds backed the initiative. Married voters and voters with children strongly supported Proposition 8. Unmarried voters were heavily opposed.

    Anybody who wants to reduce this to ethnicity is trolling for trouble.

    And is it really that hard to use the google? Took a nanosecond to search for exit polls on the vote.

  87. 87.

    Svensker

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    Everyone’s confused by your OBL thing — thinking it means you’re calling killing OBL now “terrorism”. I assume you are talking about the US funding the mujahadeen back in the 80s.

  88. 88.

    Chuck Butcher

    @Brachiator:
    When people get results they don’t like they do look for scapegoats and if there are some other issues with a group, you can bet they’ll get the credit. Take the ’10 elections and the tripe that the left stayed home. It’s convenient if you don’t like criticism of center right policies as insufficient, but what it has to ignore is that the “villains” are their beloved “center” flipping for that group’s reasons.

  90. 90.

    Shawn in ShowMe

    @shortstop:

    How would the American consumer know what real men looked like without the Eastwood and Springsteen brands? You can’t leave critical decisions like that to the untrained mind.

  91. 91.

    David Koch

    Obama has lost me, unless he pardons Bradley Manning, Jonathan Pollard, and the Unabomber.

    p.s. Free Manson!

  93. 93.

    feebog

    The Prop 8 vote freaked me out. I have two friends, both my age, both Viet Nam vets. They are both good labor Democrats. Yet they both voted yes on Prop 8, dispite my best efforts to change their minds. I do think if the vote was held today it would be differnt. DKOS has a chart up on the front page today. In 1988 only about 10% were in favor of gay marriage. Today it is over 50%. 25 years from now my great grandchildren will read about this and wonder WTF?

  95. 95.

    Jay

    @freelancer:

    Cory Booker has a national following and he will draw national money, both of which will put him over the top in a matchup with Christie. My guess is that Mayor Booker is quietly bringing together donors and building up an organization.

    Christie is TERRIFIED of the guy. Listen to the way he’s talked about drug policy recently. Think of how the governor batted down the anti-Muslim bigotry surrounding his selection of a certain judge.

    If and when Booker declares, Christie is toast.

  96. 96.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Benjamin Franklin:

    People are inadvertently, I’m sure, conflating your post and one of Comrade Dread’s.

    The fact of the matter is, the US gleefully and openly sponsored groups that engaged in asymmetrical warfare, and the use of violence to engender fear and repress political views they did not like in the 80’s. OBL and the Taliban both benefited from US and other western aid in the 80’s fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. In Central America, the use of violence against people with the “wrong” political outlook, like Oscar Romero and those very dangerous leftist nuns was routine, and sponsored by the shitty grade Z movie star administration.

  97. 97.

    Heliopause

    What the news media taught me today:

    WHITNEY HOUSTON ONLY SANG FOUR BARS OF MUSIC IN HER ENTIRE CAREER.

  98. 98.

    Benjamin Franklin

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    A charitable conclusion you’ve made there with the term ‘inadvertent’.

    I try to have a reasonable tone to my comments, but I don’t tolerate fools very well.

  100. 100.

    Cermet

    @Villago Delenda Est: Amazing how people forget raygun the brain dead mined the habor of that central american country which is both illegal by our law and an act of war. Raygun had shit for brains and was hated by most people late in his second term. People have such short memories.

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    @trollhattan:
    I seem to recall that there was an idea floated that the initiative was written so that just a real quick glance could get one to vote yes when the person actually was against prop 8. On the other hand anyone who thinks CA is liberal lala land sure isn’t paying attention.

  102. 102.

    Brachiator

    @trollhattan:

    Don’t get all aflutter—it was in re. a post about Sully and Savage blaming it on black folks.

    It keeps getting reported as conventional wisdom, and often by Balloon Juicers.

    Doesn’t seem to me that it’s hard to get the facts right, no matter what the context.

    @Chuck Butcher:

    When people get results they don’t like they do look for scapegoats and if there are some other issues with a group, you can bet they’ll get the credit.

    Yep. It’s tiresome to keep seeing this crap floating around, especially when it is so easily refuted.

    But as you say, some people need convenient scapegoats.

  103. 103.

    Linnaeus

    Right on schedule, opponents of marriage equality in Washington have filed a referendum challenge, R-73. It’ll need 120,577 signatures by June 6 to get on the November 2012 ballot and suspend the law in the meantime.

  104. 104.

    Linnaeus

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The fact of the matter is, the US gleefully and openly sponsored groups that engaged in asymmetrical warfare, and the use of violence to engender fear and repress political views they did not like in the 80’s. OBL and the Taliban both benefited from US and other western aid in the 80’s fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan. In Central America, the use of violence against people with the “wrong” political outlook, like Oscar Romero and those very dangerous leftist nuns was routine, and sponsored by the shitty grade Z movie star administration.

    Hey, it’s all good as long as it’s left-wing views that get repressed. Jeane Kirkpatrick said so!

  105. 105.

    Davis X. Machina

    The fact of the matter is, the US gleefully and openly sponsored groups that engaged in asymmetrical warfare…

    No warfare unless symmetrical warfare, preferably with trenches from the border of Switzerland to the coast of the North Sea, full of roughly comparable numbers of soldiers.

    Tradition is very important. We reject it at our peril.

  109. 109.

    Linnaeus

    @Yutsano:

    Eyman would make a good figure to rally against, but as far as I know, he’s not involved with this one. It’s mostly Joseph Backholm and the Family Policy Institute.

  110. 110.

    Suffern ACE

    Personally, If I lived in Nj and not 200 feet from there, I would vote for Cristie if he were to pay to tear down Xanadu and promise to put all of the financiers and public officials who mismanaged it on roasting spits. All politics is local.

  112. 112.

    Chris

    @kindness:

    I don’t get the appeal of Christy rethugs have. Oh sure, he yells at common workers when they ask him a question. I guess that scores some points to the leadership challenged reichtwingnutz out there. But really….the guy isn’t a Teabagger.

    It’s like Nixon. Yeah, in a lot of ways, he’s not one of them. But he’s a professional bully who loves flaunting it by walking around pushing liberals and things like unions into lockers. And really, that’s all it takes.

  113. 113.

    Chris

    @Martin:

    But yeah, if we (or Israel) are using MEK to target Iranian scientists, then I’d have to consider that state-sponsored terrorism. I know it may seem pragmatic to use a group like MEK to achieve these ends, but we should have the means to take a more appropriate path.

    Of course we do, but it’s not about means, it’s about deniability. One reason you keep terrorist groups around is so they can do the stuff you don’t want your own fingerprints on. It’s probably a lot less efficient than using your own special ops, but you get to sit back and say “I didn’t do it.”

    Like other people have pointed out, we played the same game in the Cold War – a heavy helping of state sponsorship (on both sides) did a lot to get international terrorism off the ground in the first place.

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