I’m going to go ahead and politely say that this is energy best spent elsewhere by Arianna, considering.
The measure of President Obama should be the bar set for him by Candidate Obama. Unfortunately, the way the race has shaped up, the bar is set considerably lower. Take, for example, the questions David Axelrod was asked just before Super Tuesday. They included one about Newt Gingrich’s call for Secretary of Energy Steven Chu to be fired and, of course, one about Rush Limbaugh’s “slut” comments. That’s a pretty low bar for the Obama campaign to jump over. And if, as the campaign moves forward, the majority of the questions President Obama and his surrogates are going to be faced with are simply responding to whatever outlandish statements are coming from the Republicans, that’s clearly not going to be the most productive debate the country could be having. Given the real problems we’re facing, and the fact that a presidential election should be the time to discuss and debate them, the bar should be much, much higher than that.
So instead of simply asking President Obama to respond to the most extreme or bizarre Republican statements, how about asking him instead to respond to the boldest and most ambitious statements from… Barack Obama?
At HuffPost, our plan for 2012 is to vigorously cover both tracks of the election. Which is to say that while we are exhaustively covering the race between President Obama and the Republican nominee, we’re also going to be covering that second track: Obama vs. Obama. And we’ll be covering it in a variety of ways: by comparing the reality of President Obama with the rhetoric of Candidate Obama; by focusing on real underlying problems in the country that are being temporarily masked by a slight improvement in the unemployment numbers; and by using satire.
NOOOOOOOOOOOBODY expects the Huffington Position! Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: comparison, problem focus, satire, ruthless efficiency from not paying contributors, an almost fanatical devotion to Centrism, and a nice web layout – Oh damn! I’ll come in again.
Look folks, if you’re devoting your considerable reach and power to this re-election battle being about What Obama Hasn’t Done Yet before he gets re-elected to have a chance to do it, I’m going to say that you may not be fully vested in the idea that he should be re-elected, follow? I understand that the President has made some mistakes, and has done things that I don’t agree with, especially when it comes to civil liberties. Considering what he has accomplished, I’m hoping that this will be taken into balanced consideration. When the other party’s response is “Let’s reduce the last one hundred fifty years of American progress to a shiny, slightly concave crater of smooth, blackened glass and take a mulligan on everything after ‘and the Union was preserved’ okay?” I’m thinking the time for holding the President’s feet to the fire on things is, you know, November 7th, and not now. I’m completely willing to have the debate Arianna wants…as soon as we keep the Morlocks, Mole People, and CHUDS in the GOP from eating our flesh.
Even better, I would think that time and energy would be invested in getting NANCY SMASH back her gavel, and keeping the Senate, in addition to keeping the White House. If you haven’t noticed, the Republicans have spent the last 15 months dumping trucks of salt on the earth after covering it with napalm, cat pee, and graffiti that reads “TEA PARTY RULZ.” We might want to do something about that rather than saying “You know, Candidate Obama hasn’t delivered on all of his campaign promises.” Congratulations on that insight and welcome to politics. Keeping those promises will require a Congress not led by John Boehner and Mitch McConnell, capiche?
I’d say that I can’t believe anyone in that position would be that dense, but given the person making the call, everyone should have expected it by now.
Linnaeus
I suspect that Huffington isn’t expecting to get the horse race she wanted, and is now thinking of ways to generate something else close to it.
Carnacki
Her good friend BreitBart would surely approve.
gogol's wife
I won’t touch that site with a ten-foot pole. They make me sick. And now I can’t even read the Times Food section — today they have a heartwarming article about Ann Romney making Mitt his favorite dish for his birthday: meat loaf cakes. Please bring me some anti-nausea medication.
PeakVT
Huffington’s a grifter, too, though a lot more talented than Palin.
Raven
Well, we hate Huff Post, CNN and countless others. News aggregator?
ShadeTail
@gogol’s wife:
All I can offer you is some Pepto Bismol. It might not be strong enough for this, and it turns your poop black (which is totally harmless, but freaky as hell).
c u n d gulag
I still don’t know that I can trust that she’s a real Liberal.
But I do know that she’s a very savvy businessperson.
This sounds like she’s either after the David Broder “Oh, Where Has All Of The Bipartisanship Gone” chair at the Wapo, or the Jame Hamsher “Cut-off Your Nose To Spite Your Face” blog, presenting ‘The Liberal Version Of Obama Derangement Syndrome.’
I’ll tell you what Arianna – stick to bashing the Conservatives.
THAT’S a VERY fertile field.
PTirebiter
At least she UNDERSTANDS the POWER of the BULLY PULPIT, you running dog lackey of the Wall St. Elite.
SectarianSofa
Arianna gives a bad name to turncoats.
Ben Cisco
Let me say, as dispassionately and non-shouty like as possible:
__
FUCK Arianna Huffenpuffalupagus. With AsiangrrlMN’s Rusty Pitchfork™. She’s about as useful to the left as a ragtop on a starship.
__
ETA: @Raven: That’s TeaNN.
trollhattan
I missed Noot calling for Steven Chu’s head. Is Steven Chu the reason we don’t have two-buck gas? I guess I missed that memo.
As to the Huff Guff(TM), well, she did once push her gay zillionaire Republican [what, another one?] husband into running for governor, so I don’t pay much attention to her politics.
ruemara
Arianna is a ratfucker. Plain and simple. I still have my ‘Arianna for Governor’ button. I keep it next to my FDL bumpersticker to remind me not to trust implicitly just because they sound right.
Clime Acts
Wow.
This post is going to be very useful as an unself-aware distillation of Bot-think.
Thank you for the reference point, Zandar.
KG
@Linnaeus: This, eleventy thousand million times: THIS.
Also, too… Representative government (you know, what we all call “democracy”) only works when there is a presumption of good faith by all sides. Kinda like capitalism, really. If one side says it’s not going to shit the bed and then proceeds to shit the bed and then bitch that the other side actually shit the bed, then that whole good faith thing goes out the window. That’s basically what happened the last few years (though some Republicans (I’m looking at Senator Turtle) admitted ahead of time that they were loading up on greasy Mexican fast food in order to shit the bed on purpose).
I’d like someone outside the blogsphere to call these assholes on this. If only because I grew up in a Republican house, and I miss having them as a fairly reasonable alternative rather than a rampaging horde of villagers scared of noises they can’t explain.
SectarianSofa
@gogol’s wife:
You could read the Times food section before? You’ve a stronger stomach than I.
SectarianSofa
@Clime Acts:
Hey stupid, your shtick is showing.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Because, Arianna, in real American politics – which I understand you had to join – we have this thing called a divided government, meaning that you have to convince other people to do what you want. If you are not taking that into account, then you’re not even worth considering.
And also, if you are paying attention, you will notice that one party is intent on destroying the country. I would settle for my 7 year old running the country before the Republicans get a shot at the White House.
Clime Acts
@Ben Cisco:
I think you meant to say she’s about as useful to the center right whose primary focus is the well being of Barack Obama’s political career as a ragtop on a starship.
pat
what’s with the switch back and forth from the mobile to the original site? Very annoying. Sometimes I can get rid of the mobile by clicking on the comments or something, but it is pretty unpredictable. Maybe should have spent a bit more money on that upgrade, huh??
btw it’s still my favorite blog, flaws and all.
New Yorker
How about this: Obama kept his promise to get us out of Iraq. For years, this was (rightly) the most important goal of the left: get us out of the pointless, destructive war we were lied into. He did that. You know, it’s possible to respond to the insanity of the right while getting shit done elsewhere. Remember last spring? One night, he makes colossal fool out of Donald Trump, the next night, bin Laden is taken out.
rlrr
Steven Chu
Why does Newt have a problem with an actual scientist with knowledge of energy?
Clime Acts
@SectarianSofa:
As is your tribal Bot-ulism.
Gus
Like it’s Obama’s fault that the Republican race is such a fucked up shitshow?
EJ
Why should someone who calls herself a journalist be “fully invested” in that idea? I’m not saying Huffpo is any paragon of journalistic quality, but do you really expect them to run nothing but pro-Obama propaganda from now until the election?
rlrr
Huffington used to be a right wing nut, until Al Franken converted her into whatever she is nowadays…
SectarianSofa
@Clime Acts:
It’s OK to take a break if you need to come up with new material. If we’re not here when you get back, you’re probably still lost.
ShadeTail
@SectarianSofa:
Please don’t feed the troll.
I know I’m just pissing into the wind at this point, but hope springs eternal.
KG
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): will your 7 year old promise ice cream for every meal? and that recess be mandatory, even at work?
Because if so, that’s a platform I can get behind.
SectarianSofa
The troll-feed comes in such big bags, these days. Hate to see it go to waste.
rlrr
@Gus:
Consider that everything is Obama’s fault, yes.
TheOtherWA
Thanks for the laugh. That really is what the repubs have done.
chopper
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
hildebrand
Someone needs to put together a news aggregator site that isn’t plagued with delusions of grandeur. That or someone simply needs to fire Arianna and find someone who isn’t a dilettante.
TheOtherWA
I stopped reading the HP a while ago. Can’t stand that site anymore.
Shazza
Oh please, this woman counts Newt as one of her close friends and she NEVER backed President Obama so she can take a flying leap.
Ash Can
@Linnaeus: I’d say you got it in one. My thoughts as I read this were, “She’s using an awful lot of words to just say ‘This race will be over before it begins, so we’ll have to talk about something else.'”
Chyron HR
Silly “Bots”, everyone knows that all TRUE Progressives must unquestioningly stand with the Huffington Post.
(But in a totally individualist, non-botlike way, of course.)
SectarianSofa
@hildebrand:
It’s all about the sidebar with the titillating celeb & sex stuff. I believe that’s the real driver of traffic, rather than the news per se. (Or maybe ‘page views’, etc., rather than ‘traffic’ is more correct.)
Martin
AOL is imploding. Their business model of warming over other people’s content and pushing it out under their own ad revenue isn’t going to work. They’re increasingly turning into link bait everywhere – not just HuffPo but all of their other properties as well.
Ignore them – like placing a delicate pillow over the face of an infirmed patient. Help them go gracefully into the night.
KG
@Gus: well, in a Palsgrafftian way (legal reference will be explained below), sure, it’s Obama’s fault. If he would have been terrible from the get go, and had bin Laden rolled through the streets of New York victorious, and had health care reform (which people like in parts but not in sum, probably because they don’t have the time/energy to get it all together) failed, and Iran launched a war, and shanty towns sprung up… well, he wouldn’t be in a position where he’s likely going to win, and the Republicans would have had “top tier” (I don’t even know what that means among Republican politicians anymore) run and it wouldn’t be a shit show. So, yes, it’s totally his fault.
Ok, Palsgraff… it was a case that went up to the New York Court of Appeal (their highest court, New York named their courts backwards) in the early 20th century. The decision was written by Cardozo (probably the most influential judge in American history not named Marshal) and dealt with causation. Basically, a lady got hurt at a train station because a post fell on her after a guy dropped a box full of fireworks on the other side of the train station that caused a chain reaction from the explosion.
Mnemosyne
Gee, what a shock — the Obama campaign successfully used a “rapid response system” to outright GOP lies in 2008, so now Arianna thinks we should ditch a system that worked and go back to the old-fashioned John Kerry style of being above it all.
Never coulda seen that one coming from
exRepublican Arianna.Sadie
So, in other words, we shouldn’t criticize Obama because it’s an election year and the Republican agenda is certified lunacy? If Obama is subject to criticism, he’s subject to criticism, period.
middlewest
Oh hey, another Brietbart site to not care about.
Clime Acts
@ShadeTail:
Hey fool: I am a registered Democrat who walked up the street and cast a vote for Obama in the Mass primary the other day.
Unlike you, however, I don’t think it’s good for the man or the party that he receive only adulation from the left. People here run on about how he needs to be pressured from the left to follow through, but none of you are willing to assert any pressure.
Arianna generally makes me gag, as does the Huffpo, but this policy might make me take another look.
Certain commenters keep trying to turn BJ into a mindless Obama re election campaign site. It never has been. Cole has made that clear.
rlrr
@Martin:
AOL is still a leader in the lucrative dial-up market…
singfoom
Not a fan of the huffington post. Horrible layout, etc…. I think you’re right about the horse race aspect. Those of us less enthused by Obama at this point will vote for him come November. I won’t pretend to be excited about it but I certainly don’t want any flavor of the crazy side to win.
Though, given their predilection for insulting large swaths of the electorate in culture war defensive actions, it’s not like they have a chance against Obama anyways.
Roger Moore
@KG:
When you want to know who shit the bed, the smart money bets on the asshole.
Leah
Even when Arianna was changing her position from die-hard Republican to some kind of liberal, she was steadfast in her contempt for Al Gore through-out the 2000 campaign And no one played a nastier role in the dehumanizing treatment of both Clintons than did Arianna, all through the nineties. Newt Gingrich was her hero, in those days.
I’d be happy for a more complex and elevated discussion than we are likely to get whomever the Republican candidate is, but the very last way we are going to get that is by comparing what Obama “promised” and what he has been able to achieve. How likely does anyone think an exploration of Republican obstructionism is apt to be any part of her elevation of the dialogue?
arguingwithsignposts
I have made it my personal policy never to read a “news” site from a media “personality” who names the site after him/herself.
scbrodinger's cat
Speaking of women with really annoying voices, did anyone else read MoDo’s PUMA curious column in NYT this morning? Apparently, she is inevitable.
schrodinger's cat
Speaking of women with really annoying voices, did anyone else read MoDo’s PUMA curious column in NYT this morning? Apparently, she is inevitable.
ETA: She = Hillary
Roger Moore
@Clime Acts:
And I used to play James Bond in the movies. My claim is slightly more credible, given that I have the right name.
muddy
@gogol’s wife:
Gods damn it they have tainted our family tradition. My son doesn’t like cake, but loves meatloaf, so we have that with candles on it. I’m of two minds as to whether to tell him the association. gdmfshit
rlrr
@Roger Moore:
some of us prefer Sean Connery…
Nemesis
Arianna once again proves she is an idiot.
I find nothing whatsoever wrong with the Obama campaign being asked questions about the crazy, stupid shit the goper candidates say and do. What could be better?
This kinda disconnect is expected from AH.
Midnight Marauder
For the life of me, I don’t understand how there hasn’t been more coordinated strategy on the Left focusing on getting the gavel back in Nancy Smash’s hand.
What’s that? Those people have no concept of long term strategy and how to win?
I see. Carry on then.
Murphoney
Huffington already has a pony.
She just wants to make sure you notice that you don’t.
Chyron HR
@Clime Acts:
There are, of course, only two options here:
1) Mindless adulation (from “Bots”), or
2) Being denounced as a “house ni**er” (on Firedoglake).
NO NUANCE ALLOWED.
ShadeTail
@Roger Moore:
Seriously, don’t feed the troll. Said trolling was directed at me. See how effortlessly I ignored it?
Jeff Fecke
After ‘and the Union was preserved?’ No way. They want to take a mulligan all the way back to “And George Washington was given the Key to America by Jesus, and Jesus said, ‘I’m cool with slavery and with women not voting.’ And it was good.”
Joey Maloney
@rlrr: I still love Franken’s description of her as “a Greek-born blond but not, strictly speaking, a blond-born Greek.”
rlrr
@gogol’s wife:
meat loaf cakes
And these people abstain from caffeine and alcohol…
Murphoney
Huffington already has a pony.
She just wants to be sure you notice that you don’t.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
Great rant
Nemesis
Oh, and Huffpo started scrubbing my posts back in 2008, so Ive not been back since. Its a shithole.
mdblanche
Should be, but it isn’t. That’s the reality. Fortunately the Huffington Post is an empire now…
@rlrr: Because Chu actually knows what he’s talking about.
mrspeel
Arianna has been heading in this direction ever since the President was elected and now she’s going to go after him with both barrels! I used to enjoy reading HP but she’s absolutely ruined it in my estimation. I hope AOL gets rid of her. SOON.
We might want to do something about that rather than saying “You know, Candidate Obama hasn’t delivered on all of his campaign promises.” Yeah, let’s vote for the screw-loose Republican candidate instead of the one with a brain who’s at least trying to do the right thing. Then she can REALLY have something to sink her chops into!
jibeaux
@gogol’s wife: Huh. What state with an upcoming primary has meat loaf as a local specialty, I wonder? Or maybe it was just “honey, just think of something not rich-sounding, ok? What do regular people eat? And don’t get the ‘longtime family recipe’ out of a magazine lying on the coffee table like Cindy did.”
gogol's wife
@muddy:
Don’t tell him. I like meatloaf too, so I’m going to just walk on by.
Satanicpanic
Huffpo is going to vigorously cover something? The only reason I ever go there is to look at uncovered chee chees.
gogol's wife
@jibeaux:
Oh, you’re right. When I first looked at the picture I thought it was Tournedos Rossini (which they had an article about last week), which is probably what he will actually have on his birthday.
Midnight Marauder
Also, this shit right here
is ludicrous. I can’t think of a more productive debate the country could have than having a blunt discussion on how insane the Republican Party has become.
I mean, what else is an election for if you can’t respond to “outlandish statements” from your fucking insane opposition?
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
Somebody send Ms. Puffinton the memo that says we are not in a time of high brow debate, but are fighting a cold civil war with crazy people who want to kill us, and probe us with high tech dildos, etc… etc…… like some alien abduction. We can talk to them when they are shriveled heaps of ash on the dustbin of history. Now pass rhetorical primer cord, and stfu.
gnomedad
Nice shtick, Zandar. I’ll be sure to tip the servers.
SectarianSofa
@ShadeTail:
Eh. You want a medal?
Seriously, I think you’re missing the point of “don’t feed the trolls,” which isn’t, of course, some kind of immanent fucking moral dictate.
Clime Acts
@Martin:
you sound experienced. yikes. :P
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
So, just to be clear, you think it’s a good idea for Obama to follow John Kerry’s strategy from 2004 and ignore crazy Republican claims. You really think that Obama’s strategy for this campaign should be to be “above it all” and not talk about Republicans trying to limit access to birth control or Republicans trying to kill jobs or Republicans banning unions.
Because that’s what you’re saying — you think Arianna is right and Obama should run a high-minded campaign that ignores everything the Republicans have said and done for the past 4 years.
scav
The HuffPo covers something other than movie stars? Learn something everyday. well well. No details yet, but OT the Guard has a banner saying “Neville Thurlbeck, former NoW chief reporter, arrested by appointment on suspicion of intimidation of a witness.”
Stoic
Obama is the fenced pen, the Republicans are the sheep dogs and you are the sheep. Don’t look up.
zoot
if you’re devoting your considerable reach and power to this re-election battle being about What Obama Hasn’t Done Yet before he gets re-elected to have a chance to do it, I’m going to say that you may not be fully vested in the idea that he should be re-elected
are you really that stupid or just pretending to be so?
Focusing on what obama didn’t do that he said he would do is a very reasonable, responsible, and viable thing to do prior to an election. obamabots who want to avoid the inconvenient truth of obama’s hard right turn AFTER being elected are, well..obamabots – ’nuff said other than F*CK OFF!!!.
Martin
@Stoic: I think there’s supposed to be veal in there somewhere.
Comrade Dread
If there’s one thing I’ve observed (and sometimes participated in) since my fall from Libertarian grace into the ranks of liberals, it’s that Democrats love a good ol’ circular firing squad.
Republicans do too, but theirs mostly consists of dressing up in clown makeup and slapping each other with fish while billionaires hurl hundreds at them.
Clime Acts
@ShadeTail:
But see how you’re responding passive aggressively thru someone else while at the same time telling them to shut the fuck up?
revealing
Daaling
People still take Arianna Fluffington seriously?
This is the same person that goes on vacations with Newt Gingrich.
http://addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/newtarianna.jpg
Hangs out with Daryl Issa.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTlKmJLbs-GovjS6MK8cd8ujAxyOYXFxhManVzSBYKJJW15-v2GIVjSQiQY
And…started Fluffinton Puff in partnership with Brietbart!
So I ask again…people still take her seriously and believe she is a true liberal? That is like taking Cole seriously as a true liberal. People with that former GOPer mental disorder cannot simply just say one day that they are now a liberal!
lacp
The idea is moronic, and I say that as someone who is not at all a fan of the President. Why stop with covering his race against himself? Why not see how he’s doing against George Washington (a dead Prez), or Josiah Bartlet (an imaginary one)? Stupid, uninteresting, and distracting is no way to run a news aggregator, son.
amk
@PeakVT: Yup. Why is this rethug taken seriously by the left beats me.
quannlace
Individual ones? He must really like dried-out meat loaf. Hey, maybe he is a regular Joe!
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
No, that is not what I’m saying. Not even close.
Your thinking is so limited, Mnem. There is no reason Obama can’t answer insane claims from the right, while at the same time engaging challenges from the left to live up to his campaign rhetoric.
You want to frame it as either-or, which I most emphatically did not do. Nor for that matter, did Arianna.
ShadeTail
@lacp:
Oh, I don’t know, it’s worked for Drudge for quite some time.
Tim in SF
NO NO NO NO NO! You DO NOT measure President Obama against Candidate Obama. You measure him against his predecessors. That’s it. Measuring a president against other presidents is the only fair yardstick.
Read the whole thing – it’s great.
Brachiator
My plan for the 2012 election is to vigorously ignore the Huffington Post.
@Clime Acts:
I have no idea what kind of pressure you expect to come from bloggers or the average citizen. But this seems to be the standard progressive fantasy of remote control influence.
The Tea Party People elected people to Congress to push the GOP towards the right. This is the most direct and effect way of getting things done.
I think all of this supposed disappointment with Obama is incredibly dumb, as dumb as a GOP primary voter. Seriously dumb.
But the bottom line is that if you want to help Obama, help the Democrats, help the country, elect some more damn Democrats to Congress, preferably some with brains and the ability to turn vague progressive principles into practical policy.
SectarianSofa
@zoot:
Thank FSM you’ve come here in time to warn us!
(Look Out! Obamabots!)
I’m wringing my hands, thinking about this! The impurity of the Obamabots, their lack of Pure Reason, it tears me up inside! I must speak out … somewhere! Before it’s too late …. Perhaps… perhaps I can leave a *comment* … on a *blog* !
eric
Her real point is “if Obama is allowed to respond to the GOP insanity, that makes sure the GOP insanity stays in voters’ minds; and if the GOP insanity stays in voters’ minds, then Obama wins in a walk and that cannot be allowed (bad for business) and worse still, the dems may gain control of the house and that is bad for really really rich people like me.”
Southern Beale
I dunno I sort of look at this as a chance for Obama to address some of his strongest criticism from the independents and the people on the left: that he hasn’t lived up to his promises. And I think this would actually give Obama an opportunity to get back some of his 2008 campaign mojo. You know I swear to God but when they replayed those speeches he gave in that HBO movie “Game Change” I wanted to jump to my feet all over again.
I don’t really see this as being a bad thing, at all. It will make the Republicans continue to look clueless and focused on petty shit or stuff that they’re losing badly on already (like their ridiculous position on birth control).
Dee Loralei IPhone
Just landed in newark, guy siitting behind me in first class’s was fucking quoting David fucking brooks!
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
Arianna is saying that she will ignore Republican attacks on Obama and instead make her own attacks on him from the left. Yeah, that sounds like a great strategy. When Republicans say, “Obama is infringing on religious freedom by not allowing employers to dictate birth control coverage for their employees,” Arianna will say, “Yeah, and we didn’t get single payer like he promised! You’re right, Republicans, Obama sucks!”
That definitely sounds like a winning strategy for the side Arianna is on (hint: it’s not, and never has been, the side of the Democrats).
Svensker
@Comrade Dread:
Beautiful.
Michael
This idea is incredibly stupid.
IThe last 3 years have been dedicated to measuring actual Obama v candidate Obama. The fact that we are now in an election year is precisely why it SHOULD be actual Obama v actual alternative.
HuffPo has this backward. No surprise there though
ruemara
@eric: This. After all, she wouldn’t be harmed at all in Repubapocalypse.
Steeplejack
Excellent post, Zandar.
scav
@Dee Loralei IPhone: Condole yourself remembering that his lack of grey matter only made the plane that much lighter and less likely to fall out of the air. It’s not as though he was tasked with piloting it or any critical thing.
Mark S.
I guess the wingnuts have a bunch of conspiracy theories as to how Sandra Fluke got to testify (belatedly) in front of Congress and made the goopers trip over their dicks. You know, if your lard ass leader didn’t spend a week calling her a slut, no one would know who the hell Sandra Fluke is. Maybe Rushbo is a mole?
Mnemosyne
@Southern Beale:
If it was coming from someone other than Arianna Huffington — maybe TPM — I might agree with you.
I’ve been living in California for 20 years and I’ve seen Arianna on our political scene for most of that time. Believe me, she is not interested in getting Democrats elected, especially not liberal Democrats. She jumped ship because she saw that the California Republicans were putting holes in the boat, but that doesn’t mean she’s a liberal by any means. Expect her to start touting the Americans Elect candidate as the “real” liberal choice as soon as they announce one.
mike in dc
I suppose the question would be, what promises did Obama make that he actually would have been able to achieve, but didn’t? This excludes anything that would require passing a bill through Congress, because the answer is pretty obvious there.
Civil liberties, check. Closing Gitmo, bzzt! Blocked by Congress. Anything else?
Mnemosyne
@Michael:
This, exactly. The election is not going to be between Candidate Obama and President Obama. It’s going to be between President Obama and The Republican to Be Named Later. And having the left join the Republican “Obama Sucks!” brigade only helps the Republican.
wrb
@hildebrand:
Yes, a nice simple one that loads as fast as Drudge, doesn’t make you tunnel down through multiple pages to see a story, doesn’t misrepresent the story in the headling (Huffington’s worst sin) and which links to all the actual news.
I actually read Drudge because of its efficiency. It had ridiculous stories which I could ignore easily- but it did link to pretty much all the news.
Around the 2008 election it started censoring news it found unhelpful & became useless.
Roger Moore
@Southern Beale:
One of the things I expect to see from the Obama campaign is an attempt to highlight all the promises from 2008 that he’s kept, like passing PPACA, getting out of Iraq, and eliminating DADT. One of the campaign mailers I got had a short cheat sheet with a list of accomplishments on it, and it was very impressive to look at them all in one place.
Even the stuff he hasn’t done, it’s important to differentiate between failures to achieve his goals (i.e. it got shot down in Congress) and genuine broken promises (he has failed to do something that’s completely within his power). IMO, it’s this point where a lot of the Obot vs. Firebagger arguments get started. Obots tend to look at the areas where he’s tried to do something and been blocked (“See, it’s not his fault Guantanamo isn’t closed!”) while Firebaggers tend to look at areas where he’s genuinely failed to deliver (“Drones! Targeted assassination! Secrecy!”) or claim the failures are really a result of insufficient effort.
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
Let’s ask Arianna’s BFF, Pete Wilson, how much on the side of liberals she is.
I should say, I like her personally. Got to meet her a couple of times and she is fun. She’s a great bullshitter. Really is. I told her so to her face, and she laughed. She knows it’s true. And she has a decided preference as to who she’d like to see win this election, and it’s not Obama.
Wee Bey
Shorter HuffPo:
No fair! Obama’s trying to win! He should be trying to make us FEEL better.
SectarianSofa
@Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity:
Arianna’s had a lot of past history with religious nuttiness, so my bet’s on the Mormon.
ShadeTail
@mike in dc:
Precisely, it’s such a simple point, but all the purists and trolls either ignore it or stupidly forget about it. What exactly did they expect Obama to do about Congress? The vast majority of the crap they whine about is stuff that the President has no control over.
jibeaux
Look, Obama explaining what he hasn’t been able to get done and why (ahem, Republicans, mostly) from his campaign is not exactly going to be a heavy lift for him. And questions about his record are fair game. But the race isn’t Obama ’08 v. Obama ’12, and it’s moronic to pretend it is. Still, I wouldn’t worry about his ability to defend himself.
jl
I have not agreed with some of Zandar’s complaints about people disrespecting Obama. But I agree with this post.
But then perhaps we have been misinformed. Perhaps, unreported in the news, candidate Obama 2008 is running against President Obama 2012. That would be an interesting race, and I would welcome an election contest between those two people.
If that turns out to be the case, I will quite listening to debate between insane GOP nonsense and lies versus centrist Democratic policies (that I think are in the ballpark of the Eisenhower GOP).
But so far, from what I hear, the election will be between President Obama and lunatic liars. So, maybe we need to debate that choice.
SectarianSofa
@schrodinger’s cat:
Eck. Well, thanks for reading MoDo so we don’t have to.
eemom
Gamisou, Arianna. With a whole truckload of asiangrrl’s rusty pitchforks.
Mark S.
@wrb:
I mostly use TPM and memeorandum (though you do get treated to crap like this).
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
I just realized: You really ARE reading impaired. This is good to know.
Riilism
@zoot:
“Focusing on what obama didn’t do that he said he would do is a very reasonable, responsible, and viable thing to do prior to an election. obamabots who want to avoid the inconvenient truth of obama’s hard right turn AFTER being elected are, well..obamabots – ‘nuff said other than F*CK OFF.”
Well said. Gawd only knows where we’d be without Arianna Huffingtonton, defender of freedoms and scourge of obamabots…
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
He doesn’t need pressure from the left, the country needs pressure from the left.
He goes where the country goes- its called democracy.
Brachiator
@Southern Beale:
This is strong criticism?
Damn, we must still be in Iraq, and bin Laden must still be breathing.
I don’t think that independents had a single thing that they wanted from Obama other than an improved economy. This is tough for anyone to deliver.
Some people on the left are nuttier than a Festivus celebration. They want to endlessly relive phony grievances. They expected a single payer health plan, nationalized banks, Bush and Cheney prosecuted as war criminals, a George Lucas apology for The Phantom Menace, and a good last Indiana Jones movie. And unicorns.
gwangung
Because people are lazy and it takes a lot more effort to push a more distributed effort of electing multiple candidates.
And because people are a lot more authoritarian minded than they say they are; there’s a real appeal to top down solutions.
Electing a better Congress goes with electing Obama (and elections are comparing the two actual candidates—comparing the president with his campaign promises makes sense ONLY if the alternative can deliver on those promises. Which they won’t).
PTirebiter
@Clime Acts:
Yea, Bot-ulism is still the only treatment for Rovarian Cancer that has shown any positive results. I imagine you were deeply invested in the Nader Protocal but the side effects have proven deadly. Keep F-king That Chicken.
Southern Beale
@Roger Moore:
Agree and the stuff he hasn’t done, a lot of times it’s not his fault. Closing GITMO is one we hear all the fucking time but I guarantee you that place would be shut down if the Republicans hadn’t crapped in their pants at the mere thought of “terrorists on American soil…”
Democratic Nihilist, Keeper Of Party Purity
@jl: That’s the fundamental issue that the trolls and Arianna would rather not discuss. I understand purity purges, and I understand voting one’s interests, but nobody’s interests are going to get served with the Tea Party running America. And while I don’t think any of the GOP candidates actually believe any of that Neanderthal shit they’re spouting (save for Paul), they’re going to end up like Boehner – they’re not going to get a choice.
Riilism
@Stoic: We prefer to be called sheeple….
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
I don’t think they had anything that realistic in mind. Of course if we actually delivered the unicorns, they’d bitch about GMOs.
OzoneR
@Southern Beale:
Isn’t that what the Republicans are supposed to be doing?
Clime Acts
@OzoneR:
Or he could…lead.
So Obama is a weather vane. Good to know also…
Cassidy
Translated: We’re gonna make shit up because I haven’t been invited on cable news shows in while.
Frankensteinbeck
I’d quite like a nuanced debate as well, with a large section for discussing what Obama has actually done. The ‘left’ (rather than actual liberals) have thrown such a giant pile of horrible sounding lies out so relentlessly that most Dems seem to have fallen for at least one. I’d like to get those cleared up, people to understand actual facts and context, and THEN judge. Ratfucking truly is liberals’ biggest internal problem.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
Yes, all politicians in a democracy are weather vanes. That’s the point. People elect representatives to do what THEY want, they don’t elect people to tell them what’s good for them.
Somehow we got confused between tyranny and democracy.
Ruckus
Zandar
As my ancestors would say:
You speaka da truuts
gwangung
This is, of course, nonsensical if there is no alternative that promises to fulfill the objectives of Candidate Obama. This is just an excuse to dump on the president without offering viable solutions.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
You can’t “lead” a democracy. Ezra Klein had a long article in New Yorker yesterday discussing why,
If you’re looking for someone to “lead,” look in the fucking mirror.
JPL
@OzoneR: some politicians even mount their weather vanes on the roofs of their cars.
Mino
So Obama has to carry the handicap against the Republican.
Well, they certainly won’t get much of a conversation with Republicans, who just say…my way or no way.
Southern Beale
@OzoneR:
But they’re not and they won’t because they aren’t a real opposition party, they’re a culture war talking point factory whose sole purpose is to keep everyone in a state of high dudgeon all the time.
And @Brachiator, I’m not an independent, I don’t know what they want, but I suspect it’s that they want to go back to the days when people didn’t have to worry about this shit all the time, and by “this shit” I mean, whatever Catholic Bishops say about birth control or fearmongering about bombing Iran, or wondering if healthcare reform really IS Soshulism. Really they’re just tired of being whipped into a frenzy about everything, a lot of it stupid, some of it unwarranted.
And yeah, Obama talking about what he was and wasn’t able to accomplish and the reasons why is certainly a lot better than Santorum shrieking about non-existent euthanasia bracelets in the Netherlands, or Michele Bachmann fearmongering about the government initiating one child policies.
Shazza
@Brachiator:
Well said, thank you.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Mnemosyne:
I will so totally vote for that Candidate Obama person. He sounds much better than the President Obama we have currently. Let me just check my sample ballot to see which line I need to ch…
Fucking elections, how do they work?
Roger Moore
@Southern Beale:
Not to go all “both sides do it”, but the Gitmo freakout was truly bipartisan.
Chyron HR
@Clime Acts:
And yet you’re the one who stood in line to vote for him in an uncontested primary.
Bot, unbot-ify yourself.
Clime Acts
@OzoneR:
hahaha…wow.
Franklin Roosevelt might disagree but whatever…
To summarize: Barack Obama was elected President of the United States. But it is MY job to do his job in addition to my own job because shut up that’s why or something…
Ruckus
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Never met your 7 yr old, but I’d vote for her/him before any GreasyOldPoop candidate. Most likely has a better perspective on life, knows more real history, may well have a more realistic view of sex and I’m pretty sure knows not to stick the tongue in the electric socket.
OzoneR
@Southern Beale:
Except Arianna Huffington going on and on about how Gitmo isn’t closed and Obama failed isn’t going to stop Republicans from shrieking about birth control.
And if you think HuffPost is going to have an honest debate on why Gitmo closed, you’re insane. We’re going to hear about how Obama didn’t use the bully pulpit.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
You seem to have a bit of a reading problem as well:
Again, if you look at Arianna’s long history with the Republican Party both in California and nationally and you actually think that she wants Obama re-elected, you’re even more of an idiot than I already thought. She is not, and never has been, on the left, and she never will be, no matter how much you wish and hope she will be.
feebog
So let me get this right. When Romney finally gets the nomination, and then continues to lie his ass off every time he opens his mouth, we are not going to cover it, because, you know, thats to be expected from a Republican. On the other hand, any promises Obama made and failed to deliver on, no matter what the circumstances, are fair game.
Because a 15 point blow out is not going to be good for business, so we need a horserace, even if we have to make shit up.
Satanicpanic
@Brachiator:
Was it too much to ask for the President to block its re-release in 3D?
maya
Well, I saw somewhere that Sarah Palin wants to debate Obama. That seems as likely to happen as a house budget deal.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t give a fuck about Arianna Huffington. I am pleased that some pseudo journalistic outfit somewhere will at least be somewhat challenging Obama to live up to his rhetoric and ideals. I think that is a good thing for government and the country.
You seem to think Obama is much more weak and vulnerable than I do. I think if he is challenged aggressively from teh left he will step up his rhetoric and hopefully his actions in response. What could be bad about that?
Also, too: Why in the hell, should Arianna and the HP or any other media outlet be on the SIDE of any specific candidate? It’s HIS job to get himself re elected, not Arianna’s.
Are you so hyper partisan that you believe ANY information not propagandized to serve the goals of the Obama campaign should be disallowed?
that’s some crazy shit.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
No, I suspect he wouldn’t, which is why we threw civil rights under his wheelchair.
His job isn’t to convince people of things and sway public opinions. his job is to execute the laws of the land, enter treaties, receive ambassadors, command the military and sign or veto laws.
Fucking Article Two of the US Constitution- how does that work?
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
Except that’s not what she’s doing. She is using you. She has no intentions of seeing anyone live up to those ideals and rhetoric. She just wants to start shit. Why can’t you fucking see that?
Clime Acts
@feebog:
wow. HP explicitly states it is going to cover BOTH tracks of the election. To come up with your summary is to simply ignore what you don’t want to hear.
This thread is a particularly stark example of what an echo chamber this blog can be in regard to Obama. Not good for the party or the country.
Roger Moore
@maya:
I think a budget deal between the
sanenot completely insane Republican rump and the Democrats is vaguely possible. An Obama vs. Palin debate is only slightly more likely than Palin managing to be coherent and avoid word salad for the whole debate.ShadeTail
@Roger Moore:
True, unfortunately. Congressional democrats really stabbed Obama in the back on this one. Though it is fair to say that the repubs are the ones who really pushed it, and the dems caved because they thought it would be a wedge issue. Not that this makes them any less culpable, of course.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
Every single thing you can criticize Obama on can be traced back to Republican obstruction or popular opinion. Basically its entirely the fault of the voters and their desire to elect people who don’t fit the rhetoric and ideals of the left.
Yes, I said it and I mean it
ShadeTail
@OzoneR:
Because he/she/it is nothing but a mindless purity troll.
SATSQ
Clime Acts
@OzoneR:
Do you also see spiders crawling alllllll over your skin?
You need to step away from the koolaid…it’s contaminated with Bot-ulism.
Shaw Kenawe
The Puffington Host? You mean the “news” blog that features all those photos of Kim Kardashian showing off her silicone talents or better still, top ten places on earth that will make your eyeballs bleed if you visit them?
OzoneR
@Roger Moore:
Even included Russ Feingold
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@feebog:
Lucky us, we live in the era of Ghost Dance Journalism. Enjoy it while you can, because what comes next is even worse.
Chris
@Southern Beale:
FTFY. Back when this was on the table in 2009, Gallup had 65% of those polled opposing closing Gitmo. There’s a pretty broad consensus here, even if liberal voters aren’t a part of it.
I find it hilarious in a black humor kind of way, because I keep comparing it to the way the French react to having Carlos the Jackal, the most infamous terrorist of the seventies and eighties, imprisoned in a civilian jail on their soil along with a bunch of his friends from the radical days. Namely – they don’t give a shit. I doubt if most of them even know they’re there, but those that do don’t care: it’s not a political controversy or anything. And, of course, none of these guys have ever managed to escape or cause any trouble. Because, y’know, the prisons were built to keep people like that in in the first place.
Contrast with the American public’s hysterical fear that al-Qaeda guys are going to pull a Magneto. Never seen such a bunch of mewling chickenshits in my life.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts: That’s your response?
Wow, you trolls are really pathetic.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
I just love how you’re totally convinced that the combined governments of the United States and Pakistan are engaged in a wide-ranging conspiracy to make people think that Obama killed bin Laden, but you completely trust Arianna Huffington to tell you the truth about Obama and her fellow Republicans.
So much for your much touted “skepticism.” Maybe you should direct it at some anti-Obama people occasionally and wonder what Newt’s friend Arianna could possibly be up to.
Davis X. Machina
Armbullyfiresidetwistingpulpitchats!
And cowbell!
muddy
@Riilism: You stole my comment.
OzoneR
@Chris:
But OBAMA was supposed to change those numbers with a speech apparently.
Left wing voters don’t seem to think any of this should be their responsibility. It’s amazing.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
And you believe them with the simple faith of a child.
NCSteve
@Sadie: What is it with you guys not getting this whole “there’s a time and a place for everything” concept?
When there’s a barbarian horde that wants to rape every resident, loot every house and burn the city to the ground and sow the ashes with salt pounding at the gates, it’s not really the time or the place to insist that everyone stop what they’re doing and listen to your long list of complaints about the manners and hygiene of the soldiers defending the gates.
Clime Acts
@ShadeTail:
Um…one might argue that to insist that people not only vote for, but mindlessly and slavishly refuse to ask questions of or challenge a specific candidate’s performance in office, would be an pretty strong demand for PURITY. Purity in support of Barack Obama, that is, which it seems is all you really care about.
OT: I once mockingly referred to ABL as “it” and was denounced as RAAAAAAAAACISSSSSSSSSSST, so you might want to watch your use of that word. It is clearly racist. Even though, regretably, I’m white…or something…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Davis X. Machina: you forgot forcing Joe Lieberman to watch while taking a shit with the door open, and grabbing Evan Bahy by the lapels and holding him up against the wall until he stopped being a moron. and Poland.
jl
As I and others have said, the actual choice in November is between President Obama (not candidate Obama 2008) and more or less OK (or not) Democratic Congress versus lunatic liars. So, seems to me that is the relevant debate between now and November.
If people want to debate how to get Obama and Democrats to enact better policies (and I think that is a very important debate, and will not mind if the consequences of that debate are Obamabot diatribes on blogs), might be best to wait until more Democratic control of federal government is not a tragic hypothetical.
muddy
@maya: Palin “debating” Obama would be very amusing to watch, but where does she get off thinking any old person just gets to debate a president just cuz they feel like it?
MikeJ
I wouldn’t mind coverage of what Obama hasn’t been able to get done if each one was contrasted with a republican promise.
Obama promised to close gitmo but the senate voted 98-0 to keep it open.
Romney promises to close Planned Parenthood.
Berial
Why do so many people seem to TRULY believe we elect a dictator every four years?
If you are far to the left and want far left laws passed, you’d do better getting a far left legislature elected than a far left president. Why do you think electing an executive is going to majorly affect the legislation being written? Honestly?
JWL
Zandar: You’re the one always prattling on about criticism of Obama. Button up for a while, and you might notice how muted such criticisms are among democratic rank and file. Hardly worth the effort of paying any attention to, much less continually yapping about it.
Face it. It has less to with Obama political viability, and more to do with resenting others who disagree with your political worldview.
Clime Acts
@OzoneR:
You see, douche, here’s the thing: It is not enough for Obama supporters such as you that I already voted for the man in the Mass primary. I have to do so without daring to raise my voice in objection to many areas of his past performance in office that I object to.
So you are clearly on the crazy-ass end of your inexorable decline into end-stage Bot-ulism. You will not change your mind and so I won’t waste my time engaging you in a way meant to try.
Meanwhile, see how many swing voters you persuade with “shut up and do not ask questions about Prez O’s performance. Just get in the booth and cast your vote and fuck off for four more years.”
Scott
@Clime Acts: Shoo, shoo, back to RedState with ye.
PTirebiter
Pretty predictable from the clowns that let Lieberman keep his
committee assignments. But then I guess it payed off with his full throated support of the president on the ACA. I’m still pissed about his puke performance as Gore’s running mate.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Mnemosyne:
Arianna wants to stand athwart both tracks of the election yelling
STOP“MOAR EYEBALLS!”. Hey, it isn’t exactly Bill Buckley territory, but in the Age of Tinfoil we have to settle for what we can get.OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
It’s not purity, it’s realism. If you can’t legitimately come up with a good rationale for why Obama didn’t get certain things done or didn’t get them done good enough, then you’re not living on this planet. That’s the problem.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Over and over, you simply rephrase my comments to make them seem to say what the voices in your head command.
Argue with the voices, sweetie, cause you’re sure not responding to anything I wrote.
Roger Moore
@muddy:
She knows damn well she won’t get a debate with the President just by asking, which is the only reason she’s willing to challenge him. If there were any threat she might have to deliver, you can bet there would suddenly be a whole bunch of unacceptable additional conditions tacked on at the last minute to ensure that the debate would never happen. That’s the way they roll.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, that is CLEARLY what I wrote. Try engaging my actual written sentences, not your soviet-style re-stylings of them.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
I believe you voted in the Mass primary like I believe Arianna is going to be honest about her criticisms, but that’s not the point.
We’re not criticizing your raising your voice in objection to whatever it is you’re angry about, we’re objecting to Arianna’s desire to use her often-unprincipled news site to slam Obama on issue where she herself has no credibility. Keep up, this isn’t about you.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
Uh-huh. Have you figured out yet what you think that SEAL team was doing in Pakistan that night since you claim they weren’t there to kill Bin Laden? Or was all of that evidence faked, too, and even the random guys on Twitter were in on the conspiracy?
But Arianna couldn’t possibly have any kind of ulterior motive just because she’s a lifelong Republican — that’s crazy talk, unlike your completely rational conspiracy theories about the killing of Bin Laden.
ShadeTail
@OzoneR:
Or, alternately, he/she/it is just trolling.
Riilism
@muddy: neener, neener…
PTirebiter
@Clime Acts:
what part of this did you interpret as “shut up and do not ask questions about Prez O’s performance.”
I understand you think Bot-ulism is tre clever, but…
I will again ask you to consider the side effects of the Nader Protocol. Hold your water until Nov. 7th unless you think President Romney will provide us all with an abject lesson in the importance of your priorities.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Hmmm…where’s the body?
Where are the pictures of the body?
Never said they didn’t kill him that night; they MIGHT have.
What I have said is there is less than NO reason to believe such a claim simply because the U.S. government says so.
You are an authoritarian. You’re comfortable with taking a head of state at his or her word as long as its barack obama because you’re partisan and gullible. Me not so much.
I’d like some evidence.
so sue me.
Clime Acts
@ShadeTail:
More passive aggressive response to me while also telling Ozone to shut up.
revealing
Clime Acts
@PTirebiter:
Seriously? What leverage will I have AFTER Obama is elected? To his FINAL term.
Please.
Catsy
@Sadie:
No, so it’s fortunate that no one here has actually made an argument like that.
Intelligent, constructive, useful criticism made in good faith, sure.
Which is not what’s on offer here from HuffPo or from concern trolling turd burglars like Clime Acts.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
But Arianna Huffington — now there’s someone who’s completely trustworthy that you can believe without even thinking about it!
fasteddie9318
IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE FROM THE PUTTINGTON POST MUST CREDIT FASTEDDIE9318
Friends, readers, total humans, droids:
This election is about so much more than simply “one presidential candidate” versus “another presidential candidate,” or “some people running for some other offices” versus “some other people running for the same offices.” It would be hard work for the media to try to cover the substance of what all those people running for all those offices are actually planning to do if elected, and since we don’t pay anybody around these parts except for the owner of the blog, this talk of “work” is simply a non-starter. Plus, hello? That’s some boring-ass bullshit, amirite? As Eventheliberalmargaret Carlson reminded us years ago, the political press isn’t down with “get[ting] in the weeds and get[ting] out your calculator or…look[ing] at [a candidate’s] record.” Fuck that! We like things that are “easy” and “fun”! Unfortunately, our sister toxic internet gossip dump, the Huffington Post, has chosen to trivialize the trivial by eschewing the usual process of comparing what the two candidates for the Presidency in this year’s election say or plan to do, and in favor of a plan to compare what one of the candidates says against what the same candidate said 4 years ago, to which we must remind our readers that Arianna Huffington has a lot of money but she has NOT invented a time machine to bring four-years-ago Barack Obama to the present day to either run against or possibly drug and replace the current-day Barack Obama. It’s not happening.
No, my friends, instead of simply asking President Barack Obama to respond to the most extreme or bizarre Republican statements, or holding him to some nebulous promises made on the campaign trail that are no different than the promises every presidential candidate makes before they are made to confront the realities of the office, why are we not demanding that the President be held to a higher standard? The first thing is not a productive debate For America, and the second thing is just some pointless bullshit that somebody at Huffington dreamed up. But we here at Puttington like our dreamed-up bullshit even better.
Yes, readers, I am talking about comparing the record of this dimension’s Barack Obama to the President of Htrae-42q in the Zothor Dimension, President Amabo Kcarab. President Kcarab did not dither about closing Guantanamo Bay Prison Colony; when Congress refused to fund the closure he simply disintegrated the offending legislators with his eye lasers and replaced them with people who would do what he said. And the economy on Htrae-42q was immediately restored thanks to the influx of a $15 quadrillion stimulus package that was approved by the terrified rump Congress in the aftermath of the Guantanamo-disintegration thing. And once President Kcarab unleashed his Fire Demon Mobulon on the Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans, Taliban, Russians, French, Goldman Sachs, Htrae’s emperor penguin population (long story) and Saul Alinsky’s reanimated corpse, nobody ever fucked with Acirema again, The End. Why are we not measuring the Obama record by this yardstick?
At PuttPo, our plan for 2012 is to vigorously cover all (not “both” like those slacker hacks at Huffington) tracks of the election. Which is to say that while we are covering the actual election, we’re also going to be covering Huffington’s made up bullshit as well as our own made up bullshit. And we’ll be covering it in a variety of ways: by comparing President Obama versus Candidate Obama, President Obama versus Exalted Htrae Emperor Kcarab, President Obama versus the 1927 New York Yankees, President Obama versus The Rock versus John Cena in the Wrestlemania main event, President Obama versus Fire, and many other exciting things we come up with; by focusing on the continued infiltration of our precious bodily fluids by Vogon toxins; and by satirizing ourselves without even realizing it.
Thank you for your continued support,
Peter Puttington
The Puttington Post
Brachiator
@Southern Beale:
Many Indenpdents in California could not give a rat’s ass about going back to some fantasy good old days. Also, as an aside, in California, there are as many Independents as regisered Republicans and Democrats because, even though many Independents lean left, they are tired of the do nothings in both parties. Independents are probably as diverse in other states, but many Balloon Juicers insist on fantasies of them as two steps above total ignorance.
I disagree. This is navel gazing. Obama has to remind people of what he accomplished, especially for short attention span folks, but the larger emphasis has to be on his vision for the future.
And yeah, he can delineate distinctions between himself and the Republicans. The differences are becoming more stark as the GOP embraces the crazy.
@Shazza: Thank you for your kind acknowledgments.
Riilism
You dirty Bot-ulistic obotulinum….
Oh, my….
shortstop
@Roger Moore: I would be amused if the WH press office announced, “We’d have expected Governor Palin, a former candidate for national office, to have more familiarity with how these things work. As you know, no president debates random private citizens. However, as a cable entertainer, Governor Palin is free to, say, set up a mock debate between herself and a cardboard cutout of the president who ‘says’ whatever Governor Palin’s staff programs him to say. We are confident that the debate win will be awarded to the cardboard cutout.”
Riilism
@Clime Acts:
Don’t look at us. You’re the one who voted for the Bin Laden death faker…
Brachiator
@shortstop:
Yeah, the cutout would definitely win, with or without a cardboard teleprompter.
Omnes Omnibus
Of course leaders have to lead, but they can’t get too far ahead of those they are leading without becoming some guy shouting in the wilderness.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@shortstop: and Grifterella knows the White House, nor really most elected Democrats*, can say that, which is why she won’t accept standing invitations from Bill Maher or even the relentlessly polite Rachel Maddow.
*Since Barney Frank is retiring, maybe in every media appearance he can challenge the ex-governor to a free-wheeling debate.
fasteddie9318
You guys, Taad would totally bash that uppity cardboard thing with a ski, thereby rendering victory by forfeit to Governor? Palin. Unless they awarded it to Cardboard Witch Doctor-Man by disqualification, but the title can’t change hands on a DQ.
shortstop
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I have high hopes for Barney repurposing his skills post-House. There are a number of venues in which he would certainly shine.
uptown
@pat:
Delete the www’s and it will go back to the real site.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@shortstop: as MSNBC shapes a week-end line-up, I’d love to see “The Barney Frank Suffers Fools Ungladly Hour”. The set could include a dining room table.
shortstop
@fasteddie9318: Ha!
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
Mnem, please quote where I said anything about “trusting” Arianna?
Thanks.
Clime Acts
@Riilism:
Could you quote me where I specifically wrote that Obama definitely faked the alleged death?
Thanks.
shortstop
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: …to which he turns and addresses his remarks when the guests are as stupid as that LaRouchie.
fuzed
Thanks for the fun post Zandar.
fuzed
Thanks for the fun post Zandar.
Riilism
@Clime Acts: Innuendo ear and out the other, dear….
Brachiator
@Satanicpanic: RE: a George Lucas apology for The Phantom Menace
I’ve heard that Obama considered an executive order on this.
Ironically, the best version of the Star Wars sequel may never been seen by a larger audience.
Now if we could just get someone to improve the Republican Party, turn them at least into sane moderates….
Thomas
A very long-winded way of saying, “Suppress your criticisms, however serious and well-founded, of the Leader until his re-election.” Seriously, every time I reach the point of thinking Glenn Greenwald might be getting too obsessively critical, Zandar and ABL reappear with their reflexive, obseqious devotion to the President. Rarely does one get such bold exhortations to tamp down critical thinking voiced so passionately and baldly. There really is no better adjective than cultish.
TK-421
No, I don’t really follow. I assume that 2012 Candidate Obama is going to be making some promises, no? And if he’s going to make campaign promises, then it’s certainly reasonable to study his track record on his previous campaign promises, follow?
Look, I get that a lot of people, yourself and many others here included, want to reduce the campaign to Is He Better Than Those Insane Bigots? And of course the answer is yes, according to polls, HuffPo, InTrade, me, etc., and I fully expect the answer to be a collective yes on election day.
But I don’t agree that that is the only conversation we can have during this election. That misses the larger point- the Is He Better Than Those Insane Bigots? is an awfully low bar to clear, and it is too low a bar to clear when it comes to solving the problems we face…and isn’t that the point of these elections? Fixing our messes requires more than just winning a few elections, and given he’s now had 4 years on the job it’s not unreasonable to ask for more from President Obama than a simple electoral victory. The bar must be set higher than in 2008.
The country had a lot of problems in 2008 that, according to 2008 Candidate Obama, were promised to be solved with the right kind of election result. The people delivered him the right kind of election results, but in many instances promises were not kept. We can debate all day long whether those promises could have been kept, but it remains regardless that in 2008 campaign promises were made and not kept. Given that, it is completely reasonable to wonder aloud whether the combination of 2012 Candidate Obama & 2012-2016 President Obama will be the same or different (and hopefully better) than the previous combination of 2008 Candidate Obama & 2008-2012 President Obama.
I suppose the real core of this argument is whether empirical governance (i.e. not governance relative to your opponent) has a place in electoral politics, and how important empirical governance is to elections. If one believes empirical governance does have an important role in elections, then there’s nothing wrong with holding politicians in your own party accountable for their own governing failures*.
Obviously many Rah Rah Dems don’t want to have a discussion on empirical governance and Dem failures here, but recent experience should teach us that solving our problems requires more, much more, than a debate that is exclusively about a relative comparison to insane bigots. Yes yes, let’s keep the pressure on and make sure the right kind of people are elected. But to imply that there should be no room for anything more than that is ultimately going to lead many people to believe that these elections are pointless. If the sole purpose is simply to deny power to the insane bigots and there’s no room to discuss what promises the non-insane bigots are making and whether they’ll keep them, then why should anyone care?
(*Note that the phrase “governing failures” is not as subjective as one might think. We all have our own opinions on how “good” or “bad” a governing decision is, and it is all too easy to whine about not getting enough of what we want. BUT…if a politician fails to deliver on his own governing rhetoric, then that’s a straight up failure according the politician’s own standard.)
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? (formerly MarkJ)
Shorter HuffPo: Since it’s obvious the GOP nominee won’t be able to punch his way out of a paper bag, to make things harder on Obama we’re going to see if he can fight off said nominee one-handed, while we make him punch himself in the face with his other hand.
ruemara
Really, really wish the FDR worship thing would stop. He wasn’t the person you’ve made him out to be. He did a lot of hideous things to get his victories and you’d be pissed as hell with him. So keep fucking that chicken corpse. He wasn’t the progressive leader you think he is and no amount of play “I welcome their hatred” clips is going to change that.
Riilism
@Brachiator:
Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure….
OzoneR
Which should surprise exactly no one. Is there anyone who realistic thought EVERY promise Obama made was going to be kept by now?
that’s the issue with what Arianna’s doing it. It’s not going to be an eclectic and balanced mix of “We got out of Iraq, but Gitmo is still open.” it’s going to be a nice mix of “Gitmo is still open cause a source familiar with Obama’s thinking says he really likes torturing people.” and “A source close to a source who was near another source says Timothy Geither pissed on Elizabeth Warren once while hi-fiving Jamie Dimon”
THAT’S the problem.
Suffern ACE
Wow. Just…Wow. We have some very serious problems in this country and very few people in the press willing to do more to discuss our options than to discuss gritroversies and drassagegate and bum calling. Very few. The president is a far more serious person than a haircut. If she is willing to find people to write articles on POLICY OPTIONS (which she doesn’t do) so that we can have a discussion of what the problems are and how to solve them, well more power to her. We are not going to rely on the right wing or MSM to do that for us. AT ALL (GRITS! CHEESY GRITS!). Republicans can have that discussion and they might win based on that.
From what I can tell, Huffington isn’t trying to turn you into a rube. She doesn’t think voters should be choosing their candidates based on haircuts and which spouse has more expensive tastes. Good. I hope she is fair about it.
Tone In DC
@Satanicpanic:
LULz.
Roger Moore
@Riilism:
No, no. That’s James Cameron, not George Lucas. You mean to say “Wipe them out. All of them.”
Riilism
@TK-421: The question, IMO, is do we really want Arianna Huffington setting the bar? I’d like to think that just one visit to her puerile, celeb-tastic site would cause anyone to say, “No, no, for the love of Gawd, no! This woman should not be allowed within 100 miles of a serious discussion of the President’s successes and failed promises. But hey, if you want to know why Rihanna and Chris Brown are getting back together or if you want to know what slithered out of a toilet, she’s your go to gal”
Suffern ACE
@OzoneR: Well then hold HER accountable for that kind of failure. We should have been doing that all along. Don’t go to her site. When she’s on the that crossfire thingy, turn her off. It will be apparent very quickly whether she is serious or not.
Riilism
@Roger Moore: Ashamed, I am…..
Lawnguylander
@TK-421
You should hire Topher Grace to edit your comments. He could probably whittle that boring as fuck wankery down to a few dozen words.
Riilism
@Riilism: BTW, I read Huff-n-Blow on a daily basis, but only for the
articlesserious journalism….PTirebiter
@Clime Acts:
Yea seriously. Because you’ll have the same leverage as you do now., perhaps less depending on how the congress looks. You can either take a realistic view of his “promises” as statements of intentions and beliefs or not. You can look at his accomplishments as evidence of good faith or as an insidious plan to dupe you only to facilitate his “real” agenda.
Of course accepting the idea of good faith is the first symptom of what you seem to fear more than anything, Bot-ulism. Better to cynically whistle past the graveyard.
Consider the leverage you currently enjoy with the right-wing and tell me you’ll have more with President Rom-torum.
David Koch
This is this snark?
Seriously, is this snark, Arianna?
Everytime I click on HuffPo, the most viewed posts are on tits and ass (ie Gwenth’s new diet/Jolie’s Oscar slit skirt/Paris Hilton’s haircut/JLo’s tight pants/ etc. etc.)
If you want to be taken seriouly Arianna, STOP the sexist objectification of women.
Mnemosyne
@Clime Acts:
Ah, yes, I recognize that style of argumentation: if you didn’t use the specific word “trust,” then you totally weren’t arguing that Arianna Huffington is an honest broker who can be counted on to be fair and balanced when she looks at Obama’s record and the only possible reason anyone would object to her project is because we’re mindless Obots, not because we don’t trust Huffington.
So, yes, it’s true: when you said things like:
you certainly weren’t arguing that you think she’s going to tell the truth and give an honest assessment of Obama’s term. I can’t imagine why anyone would read it that way.
David Koch
@feebog: This.
Mnemosyne
@TK-421:
I don’t think there would be this kind of pushback if the initiative was coming from an actual news source. I suggested TPM above, but even a dead tree paper like the New York Times or Washington Post could absolutely undertake a project to compare Obama’s 2008 campaign promises with what he’s actually done and it would be very informative.
The argument here is whether or not you think that the HuffPo, purveyor of celebrity gossip and topless shots of actresses, is going to do a good job. Given their penchant for sensationalism and half-truths, I have to assume that they will probably fuck it up and give all kinds of ammunition to the Republicans.
If the National Enquirer announced that they were going to undertake this project, would you still agree that it’s a good idea that will give valuable information to voters?
David Koch
Holy Shit
http://www.people-press.org/2012/03/14/romney-leads-gop-contest-trails-in-matchup-with-obama/?src=prc-headline
This large lead confirms other polls released this week by Reuters, PPP, and Gallup. See, I told ya the NYT poll was crap, manufactured to create the appearance of a horse race.
TK-421
@OzoneR:
Well, probably lots of Americans who don’t usually vote. IIRC, turnout was extremely high in 2008 relative to other presidential elections.
I’m not sure I believe that quick answer, so let’s grant your premise, that campaign promises made by Barack Obama should not be believed. That just validates my concern about going down this path- if you implicitly (and repeatedly) tell the American people that your campaign promises shouldn’t be believed (i.e. that you shouldn’t be held accountable for failing to deliver on your promises), then what is the point of electing you?
I know a lot of people here instinctively answer that question with “to deny power to insane bigots,” but that’s only a half answer. Ok, so power is denied to evil people, but power was also given to people who want to do…what, precisely? And remember, any answer you give to that last question has already been dismissed as irrelevant by yourself. You yourself are saying that we shouldn’t believe you when you tell us where you want to go (i.e. campaign promises).
This is why Rah Rah Dems need to stop objecting to liberals holding Dems accountable. If the sole purpose of all of this is to go Nowhere because Nowhere is better than Hell (which is where Repubs will take us), then you end up discrediting yourself with the American people and make it harder to get power over the long term. There needs to be more to electing Dems than just denying the election of Repubs.
Mnemosyne
@TK-421:
I think that’s the major disconnect here: you seem to think Arianna Huffington is a liberal.
rikyrah
fuck her.
I never understood how she became such a hero of the left.
it would be like, if Clarence Thomas got his ‘wakeup call’, and saw the light.
Black folk would be ‘ about time, you slave catcher you’.
but, under no circumstances, would Black folk consider Clarence someone that could go on tv shows to talk about the ‘ positions of the Black community’.
we have a long list of folks who were actually down in the trenches while Clarence was kissing right-wing azz.
how all these former GOPers could be pushed as folks to be talking about the left, I never understood.
while Arianna was selling the shyt that was Ronald Reagan, there were plenty of other true progressives who were fighting the good fight, but that heifer is on tv.
WeeBey
@Mnemosyne:
Thank you.
Anyone who thinks Arianna Huffington is after anything other than the clicks and eyeballs of rubes should be committed, by force if necessary.
TK-421
@Riilism:
I gave up on HuffPo a long time ago, but I reject the idea that if the wrong person asks a good question, then that good question should be ignored.
Fine, crap all over HuffPo, but I think you’re fooling yourself if zandar and others would NOT object if this same type of question were asked by other more respectable outlets. I’m pretty sure the same “BUT YOU’RE HURTING HIS CHANCES IN THE ELECTION CAN’T YOU SEE HOW INSANE THOSE BIGOTS ARE STOP ASKING THESE QUESTIONS” logic would apply.
And IMO, it’s very bad logic that in the long term hurts the Dem party.
Brachiator
@TK-421:
I don’t get it. What universe do you people live in? Do you honestly expect Obama to have delivered on all his promises in the face of obstructions from the Republicans and often stupidity on the part of Democrats in the Congress?
And so we have Balloon Juicers starting out rationally, talking about “empirical governance,” but then writing as if the furious battles or Tea Party People opposition in Congress over the past four years never took place.
And this is not taking Obama off the hook, but here’s a question. What the heck does “emprical governance” mean when the Congress does not defer to the president and lets him actually, you know, govern? And I mean this in the most practical terms.
As with Clinton, only magnified, Obama has had executive and judicial appointments blocked. So, Commerce was weak, the secretary resigned, but the appointment of his replacement was blocked by the Republicans on insane ideological grounds.
So even though I hold Obama responsible for some of his poor initial selections for cabinet level and other positions (especially an over reliance on Clinton era retreads and Democratic Party hacks), I also recognize that he was stymied by idiot Repulicans in making corrections.
And so, when I hear someone talk about failure to keep promises, without context, it sounds more like a tantrum than any kind of analysis.
Bruce S
I remember when Arianna thought the OJ Simpson verdict was the end of civilization as we know it…
A consistent thread runs through her career – her sense of self-importance and self-promotion.
rikyrah: “while Arianna was selling the shyt that was Ronald Reagan” – hey, it wasn’t even Reagan. She was in love with Gingrich, of all disgusting people.
TK-421
@Mnemosyne:
Meh, I guarantee you the same questions have been and will continue to be asked by Digby and David Dayen and Glenn Greenwald and others, and I guarantee you Rah Rah Dems will offer the same objections to them asking those questions.
I don’t think this is about Arianna per se. That’s not how I’m interpreting it. I think it’s about EVERYONE STFU AND VOTE FOR OBAMA BECAUSE OMG LOOK AT THOSE INSANE BIGOTS.
And yeah, I get that thinking and in the short term I agree with it. But over the long term there has to be more to these elections. There has to be a point to them, or a destination. Exclusively thinking like Rah Rah Dems makes each successive election harder, because over time it erodes the credibility of the Dems’ claims/promises of where they want to go.
Clime Acts
@Mnemosyne:
See those words “pseudo journalistic outfit” in reference to HP? Those words mean things. Think a while. I’ll wait.
OzoneR
@TK-421:
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying you shouldn’t be surprised if everything he said he’d do, he didn’t get to, If he did, there would be no reason to run for another term.
Its one thing to be mad that NOTHING got done, but that’s not the case, what we’re saying is we need to take some time out of fighting crazy people with very legit chances of winning to have a pity party that Obama didn’t score a perfect 10 in his first term.
Omnes Omnibus
@ TK-421 at 233: I don’t think that looking at what happened with campaign promises is necessarily bad. I do think, however, that many, if not most, campaign promises are more akin to statements of what the candidate would like to do – given world enough and time. As a result, I am likely to weigh intervening events, good faith attempts, and other things like that in my analysis. Further, even if he scored a 0 on promises kept or attempted , I would still need to weigh him against his GOP opponent when making my decision. I must confess that I have real difficulties imagining a situation that would cause me to vote against Obama.
Please excuse typos – iPhone typing is hard.
OzoneR
@TK-421:
Honestly, there will be more to these elections when Rick fucking Santorum doesn’t have a viable shot at getting elected President.
Until then, we’re just fending off crazies.
And even as we do that, we’ve made some real good progress in the last four years.
TK-421
@Brachiator:
In an ideal world, sure, but in the real world of course not.
But you’re conveniently ignoring the next question that follows from that line of thinking- if we shouldn’t believe every campaign promise made by Barack Obama, for which ones should we believe and hold him accountable? Can we ask Barack Obama that question? If so, is there any way to phrase that question that does not piss people like you off?
Overpromising and underdelivering doesn’t often end in happiness, regardless of who’s at fault for the underdelivery. If you’re offering as explanation to the underdelivery that President Obama is utterly hamstrung by a Republican Congress (which I agree with), then you’re undermining his candidacy because it’s quite likely he will continue to be hamstrung for his next term as well.
Unless, that is, Dems can offer a compelling case why congressional Dems should be elected to enable and support President Obama’s vision for the country for the next four years. Which is, interestingly, the entire point of these questions- to push Dems and President Obama to identify where they want to go…or related to the beginning, what promises they firmly intend on keeping going forward.
I firmly believe this rigorous internal questioning can only help Dems, in this election and beyond. Which is why I find it so baffling that Rah Rah Dems object to this line of questioning so much. If you are forced to answer these questions, you’re going to improve your electoral chances.
OzoneR
@TK-421:
Believing implies Obama never meant it. Do we doubt Obama meant it when he said he wanted to pass comprehensive immigration reform? Do we doubt he meant it when he said he wanted a public option? I don’t think we ever doubted his sincerity in his promises, what he doubted was whether or not he was willing to die on a hill for them, which he’s not. That’s the problem. We disagree on whether or not he should, that’s fine. It’s not about writing about what prevented Gitmo from closing or the public option from passes, it’s about a tabloid blog with a history of tabloid-style journalism taking on Obama’s promises. We’re not likely to get anything of value from HuffPo except something Republicans can use against us.
OzoneR
@TK-421:
Disagree, for the left they do nothing but tamper turnout. The left is cynical as it is.
this is not what Arianna is saying they intend to do. She’s not asking Obama and the Democrats “what do you intend to do if you win this year’s elections” She’s asking “why did you not do X when you won last time?” and she’s not going to asking it in a way to get a thorough story about roadblocks in government. She’s asking it so she can get tidbits about who hates who and whatever gets her clicks.
TK-421
@Omnes Omnibus:
Fair enough, but recall that what I originally objected to was this:
I don’t agree with this, and this conflicts with what you’re saying too. I think ultimately it helps the Dem Party to hold Dems accountable for promises made but not kept. IMO it is NOT in bad faith to ask Barack Obama about the promises he made, why he wasn’t able to keep them, and how it’s going to be different this time around. This type of questioning forces President Obama and congressional Dems to explicitly state where they want to go and how they want to get there.
I can’t imagine how that’s going to hurt them electorally, but zandar apparently thinks so.
kay
I don’know, she’s using a lot of words, but isn’t she just saying she wants this to be a “referendum on Obama election”rather than a “choice” election?
She shares that goal with Mitt Romney.
Romney wants a referendum election
and Obama wants a choice election.
Huffington’s big pronouncements are always like this. Slightly reworked campaign- season conventional wisdom.
I suppose it’s somewhat interesting that she’s on the Romney-referendum side.
David Koch
This ultimately won’t hurt Obama, but it will produce “collateral damage” on down ticket candidates.
Obama is gonna win Independents if only because the booming stock market and how that affects 401K accounts, and that will be game, set, and match.
But in tight races, ticket splitting Indie won’t give candidates like Alan Grayson and Darcy Bruner any credit for rising stock values. They’ll have to win Indies on their own.
In 2008, Obama won Washington state by a whopping 17 points, yet Darcy Bruner lost her race. Just too many ticket splitters to overcome.
Just because Obama will win Wisconsin by 20 points doesn’t mean indies won’t turn against Tammy Baldwin or the Walker recall effort.
Just because Obama will win Massacuettes by 30 doesn’t mean Indies won’t turn against Elizabeth Warren.
In tight races, you need every vote.
If Alan Grayson, Elizabeth Warren, Darcy Bruner, Tammy Baldwin, the Scott Walker recall, etc. lose tight races in November, you can thank Arianna and the silly ass emoprogs, PUMAs, firebaggers, progressive betters, and the professional left for turning ticket-splitting-Indie votes against Democrats in swing contests.
Ha! The professional left is as self destructive and poisonous as the teabaggers.
Riilism
@TK-421: Never said the questions shouldn’t be asked or should be ignored. Just questioning the idea that Arianna is the person we should trust to answer said questions….
Rah, Rah, Sis Boom Bah….
TK-421
I guess where I’m coming from is I would like our government and our country to go Somewhere Better, and that requires Total Democratic Control of government.
But I also believe that in order for the rest of America to agree with me on election day, President Obama and Dems must offer a compelling vision, a vigorous defense of that vision, an explanation of how that vision was derailed by giving Republicans control in 2010. If you can make that case, then it will make sense to the American people to give everything back to the Dems.
HuffPo is a poor outlet to force President Obama and Dems to do this, granted. But again, Zandar and others think that any of these types of questions are harmful to President Obama and are therefore asked in bad faith. So if Digby or David Dayen or Glenn Greenwald asked these questions, Zandar would still have a problem with it.
That is IMO completely wrong. Forcing Dems to express their vision by, among other things, forcing them to explain how they failed to achieve their vision from 2008-2012 will only help them electorally. This has to be more than just denying power to the crazies.
kay
For me, it’s just hard to believe people think she’s sincere.
She’s always exuded “ambitious positioning” to me.
I don’t mind, at all, I think there’s a lot of people like that, but I just thought her overnight conversion to raving populist was almost comical.
I can’t imagine thinking: “that Arianna really has a deep commitment to “the middle class” :)
TK-421
@David Koch:
Then that will presumably doom President Obama’s vision of where he wants to go for the next four years. I wish President Obama would say that out loud.
I guess what I’m saying is if President Obama expresses a vision that cannot be accomplished without Alan Grayson, Elizabeth Warren, Darcy Burner, Tammy Baldwin, et al, then it is in President Obama’s interest to tie his own reelection to those candidates as well. That requires him to express a vision that explicitly requires congressional Dems…which would be an easier sell if he explicitly talked about how Republicans were responsible for derailing his vision…which would result from answering questions about his 2008 campaign promises. Aaaaaand there we go, right back where we started with Zandar bitching about this.
Of course, I don’t believe President Obama will go down this path. He loves that transcending partisanship shit too much to let it go so easily. I doubt he’s going to tell the American people that he was wrong and he needs more partisans to solve our nation’s problems. It doesn’t matter that it’s true, I just get the sense that he’s reluctant to admit that.
TK-421
@Riilism:
Zandar did, which is what I objected to.
CLAP LOUDER!
Mino
@David Koch: If Alan Grayson, Elizabeth Warren, Darcy Bruner, Tammy Baldwin, the Scott Walker recall, etc. lose tight races in November, you can thank Arianna and the silly ass emoprogs, PUMAs, firebaggers, progressive betters, and the professional left for turning ticket-splitting-Indie votes against Democrats in swing contests
Uh, indies will be turned off because “emo, firebaggers, etc.” support those particular candidates and the indies want to frustrate them??
ShadeTail
@TK-421:
No he didn’t. Not in the piece you quoted, at least.
Clime Acts
@Brachiator:
So why is it too much to ask the Obama campaign to make this argument for itself during the campaign? If you are correct, they won’t have any problem doing that, and O will win. I would LOVE to see him call out the Republicans for the obstructionist douchebags they’ve been. To this point he’s been far too civil with them.
It’s the SHUT UP NO ASKING QUESTIONS FROM THE LEFT SHUT UP bit that annoys me.
Clime Acts
@TK-421:
THIS.
I get a vibe that the Bots here have less faith in Obama’s skills and potential than do I.
Clime Acts
@kay:
oh for god’s sake…EVERY election is to one degree or another a referendum on the incumbent.
You are pushing the idea that it is EITHER a referendum or a choice election.
How about it is BOTH, as it always is?
OzoneR
@TK-421:
you are right, but this…is…not…what…she’s…doing.
Instead, she’s framing it in a way so that when they do make that case, she can turn around and say “but look what they said last time and they didn’t deliver on items 5-23”
SectarianSofa
@Clime Acts:
I’m guessing you couldn’t vote in 2008.
SectarianSofa
@ShadeTail:
Well, you are right about the trolling thing.
We are like moths to a flibbertigibbet.
Brachiator
@TK-421:
I’m not ignoring anything. You sound like a sports fan who’s upset that your team promised you a win before the season, but failed to win the championship.
Ultimately, campaign promises are like party platforms, a guide for what the party wants. But governing a nation has nothing to do with promises, but reacting to what happens in the real world on a daily basis.
Odd, I have said in this very thread that Obama needs more and smarter Democrats in the Congress in order to succeed. There is no other alternative, short of ruling by presidential decree, which would guarantee even more opposition by the Republicans.
If you have some magic formula by which a Democratic president can prevail over a hostile Congress, let’s hear it.
Here, we are closer in opinion. You want to hear promises. I want to hear policy, especially tax policy. But what if you hear exactly what you want to hear, but the Republicans defeat it, then what? Are you going to vote GOP instead? Because it is not just about keeping promises, it’s about what can be done to blunt GOP efforts to block, undo and poison the achievements of liberal governance.
I firmly believe that you are wrong. But your mileage may vary.
@Clime Acts:
I think that this is important for Obama’s supporters to understand, but it does not in any way guarantee a win. Two of the biggest obstacles to Obama’s re-election are frightened conservatives and perpetually disappointed progressives who stew in the juices of their own hurt and seem to be immune to any rational argument.
But for others, it is not a simplistic question of promises. Romney promises jobs. Newt promises cheap gas. Santorum promises sexual frustration. Some promises are easy. And empty.
kay
Clime act, it just sounds so pompous to me.
I imagine this horrible Huffington editorial meeting where they say “let’s make it like a primary between Candidate Obama 08 and President Obama 2012!”
Because that’s GAMECHANGING.
I can’t help it.
That’s how she comes across to me.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@Clime Acts:
You might want to have a seat and just read and learn. This is how Purity Trolling is done, TK-421 is the best of those we’ve seen, maybe ever on this blog. He/she subtle misreadings of FP posts and other commenters comments with respectful spinning into a purity narrative, won’t work forever, on this blog. Way too many smart “bots”, as you call them. It is curious to watch til then, golf clap for TK.
TK-421
@OzoneR:
IMO, when you ask the question, “Mr. President, you promised X but here we are four years later and we don’t have X. Now you’re promising Y, can you explain how it will be different this time?,” you are in fact setting up
Is that really a bad thing? I don’t think so.
Now maybe Arianna won’t ask this question in good faith. I don’t care, because it’s still a good question that helps President Obama lay out what he needs to have to solve some problems in the next four years.
Again, when Zandar says
that can apply to anyone that asks questions about What Obama Hasn’t Done Yet. These questions are valid, regardless of who’s asking them, and answering these questions will help President Obama and Dems. Zandar disagrees and wonders about the intent of someone who dares ask these questions.
I’m starting to wonder if the real problem here is that these questions make explicit a disconnect between the narrative of 2008 Barack Obama (“yes we can”, “we can disagree without being disagreeable”, “we can come together to bring the change we want and need”, etc.) and the presumed narrative of 2012 Barack Obama (“we might could someday but look at Romney”, “I need more Democrats,” etc).
I wonder if the problem is that what President Obama needs is something that Candidate Obama really really really doesn’t want to ask for. I mean, can we imagine Candidate Obama running around the country campaigning for Elizabeth Warren and Alan Grayson? I honestly don’t know.
SectarianSofa
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):
Yes, but TK-421’s posts are too long, so no one reads them. So, that’s a strike against.
Omnes Omnibus
@TK-421:
The disconnect between 2008 and 2012? It is pretty simple. Four years of vicious, borderline insane opposition to anything the man says.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@SectarianSofa:
I read them, and am moderately fascinated. I even have an idea who TK is, but no where near certain. It’s a weakness, I suppose, to admire some skilled powers of persuasion, even if I don’t agree with the propositions. We get so little of that here on the blogs, at the bottom of the pol speech totem pole. But TK still has the problem of reality of politics and elections and the numbers demanded by our system to even get access to the levers of power. You can’t do nothin’ unless elected. I am not against advancing more liberal narratives and candidates, but not past the point of losing. Democrats have had enough moral victories, sucking their thumbs on the sidelines. And currently we are at civil war, of a sort.
David Koch
@TK-421:
You guys are really embarrassingly dumb. Oblivious of basic knowledge. Like a leftist version of a know-nothing Palin.
What do you want Obama to do — help a sozalist get elected? Why would he do that?
http://www.vpr.net/uploads/photos/original/obama_600_7.jpg
Maybe Obama should campaign for some dangerous local radical? Why would he stick his neck out for someone not even running for federal office? No way.
http://blackwaterdog.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/san4.jpg?w=610
David Koch
@TK-421: Next, you’ll be callin on Obama to dine with homosexuals in the White House.
Fat chance.
Seriously, you far leftys projecting your issues are as paranoid as the far rightys who project that Obama is secret muslim. Your hate comes from a different angle, but neverthless it’s hate.
InsaneCaliCat
I’m thinking TK-421 is a conservative trying to sound like what he thinks a “progessive” sounds like.
Also, reply to lawnguylander
This. Thank you.
InsaneCaliCat
@InsaneCaliCat: well I screwed up the above post pretty good. I’ll try again.
SectarianSofa
@General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero):
I was really just being a smartass (though I will guess that there are many who will not read the longer comments).
In literature (that is, the original Star Wars movie), TK-421 was one of the stormtroopers was whacked on the head and then stuffed into the cargo hold of H. Solo’s ship (not that H. Solo, but the one who sallied about in the Millennium Falcon). TK-421’s studly duds were removed, then donned by Our Hero, Luke Skywalker.
I’m not sure that this relates metaphorically to our TK-421’s persona, but since I had to google it, there you go.
Clime Acts
@SectarianSofa:
I’m guessing you couldn’t vote in 2008.
Is it your position that the performance of the incumbent, GWB, had no effect on the chances of John McCain to be elected in the aftermath?
Ergo, the election, as are all of them, was partially a referendum on the incumbent special needs fellow.
Just like I said.
General Stuck (Bravo Nope Zero)
@SectarianSofa:
Not a Star Wars person, but figured the TK and number maybe came from there.
OzoneR
@TK-421:
If Arianna isn’t asking in good faith, then it is, in fact, a bad thing.
If someone is asking in bad faith, then the questions won’t help, why is that so hard to understand? If Arianna answers the question “Why hasn’t Obama closed Gitmo?” with “Because a source says he secretly never wanted to do it” vs. “Congress double-crossed him and he decided not to push it” then that’s a problem. She’s likely, judging by her history, to do the latter. It does not help Dems if the answers to these questions are lies or assumptions.
OzoneR
@Clime Acts:
If It did, it was minimal since McCain was running even- and even ahead- of Obama until Lehman Brothers collapsed and Sarah, Queen of the Tundra started making stupid everywhere.