Looks like one diocese is getting ready to wage holy war:
In an April 14 sermon at St. Mary’s Cathedral in Peoria, Jenky said the Catholic Church is under attack by the U.S. government, and he wants to recruit a “fearless army of Catholic men ready to give everything we have for the Lord.”
Thundered the prelate, “Hitler and Stalin, at their better moments, would just barely tolerate some churches remaining open, but would not tolerate any competition with the state in education, social services, and health care. In clear violation of our First Amendment rights, Barack Obama – with his radical, pro-abortion and extreme secularist agenda, now seems intent on following a similar path.”
But Jenky has a solution.
“This fall,” he said, “every practicing Catholic must vote, and must vote their Catholic consciences, or by the following fall our Catholic schools, our Catholic hospitals, our Catholic Newman Centers, all our public ministries – only excepting our church buildings – could easily be shut down.”
There’s just one problem with Jenky’s plan, critics say: It violates federal tax law. The IRS Code bars all 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations, including churches, from intervening in elections on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office.
These people are insane. Their entire congregation is using birth control, they’ve completely lost the battle, so now what they want to do is use the Constitution to attempt to enforce their beliefs.
BGinCHI
Maybe the craziest part of that dude’s sermon is the implied, “so in November make sure you vote for the Mormon.”
These guys are so fucked up they can’t even fight with heretics anymore.
Valdivia
Can we cut their Tax Exemption now? Or as Yutsano suggested do some RICO indictments? Obama is Stalin now? It never ends.
Amanda in the South Bay
How dare you criticise Church, you anti-Catholic bigot.
JPL
v-i-a-g-r-a
that is all
yopd1
Here’s the speech on youtube. Ironic that the Catholic Bishop thinks it was his Church that was fighting for survival during WWII.
Oh, and for grins, the ass is on twitter @bishop_jenky.
Just Some Fuckhead
Imagine if these fuckers fought child rape like they fight secular government.
jrg
Won’t happen. No one has the balls to enforce it.
Sad_Dem
I’m sure glad I wasn’t raised Catholic. Imagine getting all that crap out of your head.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Takes “any port in a storm” to a rather ridiculous extreme, doesn’t it? And WE are the radicals?
Comrade Dread
It stuns me that anyone honestly thinks this nonsense.
The only way Christianity goes away in this nation is if we drive people away by: a.) not giving our youth a good enough reason to believe in Christianity, b.) not fulfilling our mandate to alleviate human suffering, and c.) tying Christendom to the fortunes of an increasingly insane political party with an anti-Christian economic philosophy.
James E Powell
Churches all over the country have been showing little regard for the IRS code for years. They are, very proudly, extensions of the Republican Party. Or maybe it’s the other way around.
The only thing that would stop the Holy Roman Army would be a revolt of parishoners. There is one parish pastor in Cleveland who dares to challenge the Vatican. No doubt, a heretic.
Mark S.
There are a lot of nuances and shades of gray when you say someone is like Hitler and Stalin.
srv
Am a little tired of this concept that the flock ‘gets it.’ Show me a poll.
Just because the entire congregation uses birth control, that doesn’t mean they don’t feel guilty about it. Plenty of Catholics who are just as much hypocrites as their fundy cousins.
And never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance.
Baud
And there will be many Catholics who will vote this fall against cuts to social services for the needy.
quannlace
Yeah, cause they’ve made it increasingly difficult for Catholic women to want to give them the fucking time of day.
Corner Stone
Thundered the shorter bbq:
This guy isn’t the Church!
Mnemosyne
@srv:
You mean like the one from Pew a couple of years ago showing that one out of three adult Catholics have left the church? The church is only maintaining its numbers thanks to immigrant Catholics.
The church is bleeding members, which is one of the reasons they’re so desperate to enforce their rules on everyone else.
Jay in Oregon
Really? I’m not sure how that squares with this:
The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. [Emphasis mine] …The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.
That sounds a lot better than “barely tolerating some churches remaining open” in Hitler’s “better moments”.
cat48
off topic, can you believe Ezra??
Vote Romney so the economy won’t crash!
Even if you disagree with every one of Mitt Romney’s policies, there’s a chance he’s still the best candidate to lift the economy in 2013.
That’s not because he has business experience. For all his bluster about the lessons taught by the private sector, his agenda is indistinguishable from that of career politician Paul Ryan. Nor is it because he’s demonstrated some special knowledge of what it takes to create jobs. Job growth in Massachusetts was notably slow under Romney’s tenure. It’s because if Romney is elected, Republicans won’t choose to crash the economy in 2013.
suekzoo
Interesting, though…the area congregants started a petition drive to request Jenky to apologize for that sermon.
“Four Peoria-area Catholics delivered 23,000 signatures – collected online since April 19 from people of a cross-section of religions throughout the country – to Spalding Pastoral Center on Wednesday afternoon for the bishop.
They gave the box of signatures to Andrew Hagemann, property manager for the diocese, in the lobby of the pastoral center.
The petition states, “There’s no excuse for comparing the President of the United States to Hitler and Stalin. Please offer an immediate apology for your offensive remarks and refrain from using such hateful rhetoric in the future.”
http://www.pjstar.com/news/x43415078/Group-seeks-apology-from-Bishop-Jenky-for-remarks-about-Obama
dr. bloor
Bring it on. There are some pretty big cities with pretty big budget holes who could do a lot more to educate their kids with the real estate taxes the Church has been shipping to the Vatican to keep Pope Ratzi and his gang in Pradas and little boys.
Bubblegum Tate
Haven’t the wingnuts been wanting some church to do this so that if/when it gets cracked down on, it can file suit claiming violation of freedom of religion? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a bunch of rumblings about this.
jrg
I’ll bet Obama’s going to bait these assholes like he does the GOP.
dr. bloor
@cat48:
If you understand Ezra to be the rather anxious, eager to please little boy at the dinner table who’s endlessly trying to win the praise of others with oh-so-clever ideas, you won’t be surprised by anything he says.
Valdivia
@cat48:
I was just fuming about that in a previous thread. I truly cannot believe it. And he isn’t the only one. Look at TPM’s front page. Ugh.
HRA
He’s an idiot and yes, it’s time to tax the churches.
Yutsano
@HRA: Especially the Scientologists. That little cult will fall apart fast without the whole reason it exists in the first place.
lacp
@jrg: Probably true. If the executive director of the secular nonprofit I work for talked some shit like that, we’d be getting a phone call from the IRS within the hour yanking our 501c3 pending further investigation.
And that means no fundraising allowed, which would be killer – the one saint all these priests and preachers recognize, whether Catholic, Protestant, FSM, Scientologist, whatevs, is Benjamin.
But mainstream religion, First Amendment, tradition, ignorance, and bullshit are not bound by petty considerations that would hamstring atheists or soshulists.
Southern Beale
And no one in our government has the fucking balls to call these assholes on their shit because they’re SCARED of looking ‘anti-Christian.”
For crying out loud. Laws aren’t worth shit if no one enforces them.
CW in LA
@cat48: So what he’s saying is, hostage-taking works.
kay
Utter nonsense. Nothing he says has anything to do with US health care, the reality.
Not only do we have plenty of “competition” with “the state” in US healthcare, but Catholic health care providers are merging with that “competition”, both non-profit and for-profit, all over the country.
He’s deliberately misleading people.
Gin & Tonic
@suekzoo: Yeah, that story is from a month ago. Where’s the story about how he acknowledged them in any way? “23,000 signatures? Yeah, fuck you.” That was his response.
jrg
@lacp: I wonder if it would be possible to file a civil suit? If I’m paying taxes on money I donate to a political cause, and the RCC isn’t, and my guy loses, doesn’t that constitute some sort of harm?
Clearly, I’m not a lawyer, but it’s apparent that some sort of civil action is needed to stop this, because the federal government sure as shit won’t.
Kathy
As a Cathlic (barely) I can tell you that most Catholic women I know think that the male Bishop’s view towards sex is intrinsically disordered. Therefore we are free to follow our own consciences when it comes to family planning. Even women with 4 or 5 kids feel that way.
runt
So Obama really is worse than Hitler (who was, after all, a Catholic). I knew it! And now one of God’s official spokesmen has confirmed it. That’s good to know.
I note with interest that he only wants to mobilize Catholic men for his “fearless army” (because voting Republican requires real courage). But then we all know that God is against women voting.
Corner Stone
@Southern Beale:
In a sitch like this, it’s important to continue looking forward, not backward.
David Koch
Hitler got along fabulously with the catholic hierarchy
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/hitler_cardinal-nazis.jpg
Damned at Random
So the hill the bishops want to die on is contraceptive coverage – and they are willing to take down their social services to make their point. I seem to recall the message of Christ was to help the poor, sick, and imprisoned – not to control his followers’ most intimate family decisions. How divorced does the heirarchy need to become before their enablers decide to sleep in on Sunday and send their charitable contributions to the local homeless shelter?
asiangrrlMN
Cool. Tax the shit out of them and take away their federal funding. Goes both way, bishop dude. You want to hasten your descent into oblivion? Be my fucking guest.
And Another Thing...
It’s time to eliminate the tax deduction people get for donations to non-profits, and to eliminate or significantly limit the tax breaks for non-profits. It’s increasingly a scam to shield assets and most non-profits are not charitable.See Abramoff’s shenanigans.If Nixon had had PAC’s & phony non-profits, they wouldn’t have needed brown paper bags of cash. They would have written checks for consulting services, etc.
Patricia Kayden
Did Catholic leaders ever tell their parishioners to not vote Republican because of the Iraq war? Or do they only advocate political warfare for women’s rights/gay rights issues?
Yutsano
@Patricia Kayden:
Does the Pope shit with Prada shoes on?
Omnes Omnibus
Tax the diocese. Fuck it, look for an avenue to hit ’em for back taxes for previous years.
Suffern ACE
@cat48: Ezra blinked.
lacp
@cat48: That’s pretty amazing. I mean, we all know that the Tea Partiers in Congress will show that Republican loyalty and discipline and fall in line behind Moderate Mitt just the way they have behind the Orange Weeper, and presto! Sensible centrism and a booming economy! What could possibly go wrong? No, strike that – the Wolfgang Pauli line is better: “Not only is it not right, it’s not even wrong.”
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@cat48: Fifth Columnist motherfucker! Hey Ezra, how about making a case for shutting down the jackass holding the country hostage instead of CAPITULATING to them, you fuck. Asshole.
Allan
That whole “with the entrails of the last priest” thing is looking more and more attractive daily.
Mark S.
Serious question: Could the Church just stop providing health insurance to its employees? Are they required under the ACA to provide health care? Sure, they might have a hard time finding anyone to work at their hospitals and colleges, but hey, anything in the war against contraceptives, right?
lacp
@And Another Thing…: I suppose that might work if the government took over provision of food, shelter, health care, and other needs for the poor. Or turned them into dog food, one.
Yutsano
@Mark S.: They would be subject to the same $2000 fine as any other large employer. Which they will sue to get out of by reason of their tax-exemmpt status. Which means one or the other goes by the wayside. I’ll make popcorn as soon as they file.
Oh and let’s not mention the flood of employees who will leave them because they lost their healthcare. Until it finally divorces from employment, it’s still a strong incentive to stay at a job.
lacp
@Mark S.: I’m wondering the same thing. Couldn’t they just provide some sort of basic catastrophic insurance supplemented with medical expense accounts that an individual employee could use according to his/her own conscience?
Donut
@Mark S.:
Ha
Citizen_X
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Fuck. Imagine if they had actually fought fascism in the thirties and forties, instead of actively supporting it.
Mark S.
@Yutsano:
$2,000? Is that the total fine or per employee?
j
Tax them out of existence! The freeze their bank accounts. If those child molesters want to get into politics let them
But not by hiding behind whatever they think that little Nazi Pope would like.
It’s too bad that these assholes preach “Jesus” all the time but really do the Devil’s work.
Fuck them all. Tax these phony assholes!
Litlebritdifrnt
My neighbors are right now battling to get their son out of
http://www.religioustolerance.org/fam_love.htm
who have got their hooks into him right now. It is driving them nuts. The most recent development was the leader of the cult took out charges against the Dad of the son for threatening to kick his ass in a phone call. Which of course he did, he admits it.
Religion, in all forms is evil.
Suffern ACE
@cat48: Ezra must be doing better than we thought. The economy is just as bad ad it was 2 months ago, but suddenly the stocks have decided that it’s time to readjust. Now that he’s feeling a bit poorer, we’re in a crises.
quannlace
So i guess their campaign slogan is “Buy this magazine or we’ll shoot this dog.”
Roger Moore
@lacp:
Of course not. They don’t want their employees exercising their own consciences; they want their employees following Church teachings, whether they’re Catholics or not. Any other outcome would go against the Church’s First Amendment right to push their religion on anyone and everyone they possibly can.
Yutsano
@Mark S.: Per employee. Sorry, should have mentioned that bit.
handy
@Litlebritdifrnt:
I had no idea those people were still around.
Walker
@Patricia Kayden:
No, they were pro-Iraq war. I worked at a very conservative Catholic University at the time and there were numerous talks and seminars on “Just War Theory” leading up to the war.
Baud
@cat48: The stupid thing about Ezra’s thought experiment is that the Obama would be term-limited, so the incentives for the GOP completely changes — they need to think about winning in 2014 and 2016 and destroying the economy won’t help them do that.
Litlebritdifrnt
@handy: They are and they are pretty much evil. This kid was adopted from an abusive family 25 years ago. My neighbors absolutely adore him, and now this bullshit. They (the cult) have his mind so warped that he would take out charges against his father. I spoke to the kid two weeks ago, he was so pleasant and charming, (he was doing balloon art in IHOP) Mom and Dad now have a missing child out on him, they are so worried about this crazy cult.
Jay S
@Yutsano: I doubt that a few taxes will stop the cult from extracting money from the gullible. Grifters gotta grift.
Clime Acts
@Valdivia:
What is it about TPM’s front page you’re objecting to?
Jay S
@Yutsano: I thought the churches had a religious exemption. Isn’t it only the subsidiary organizations, such as colleges and hospitals that are covered?
Judas Escargot, Your Postmodern Neighbor
@David Koch:
Reminds me of one of my favorite album covers.
And Another Thing...
@lacp: I don’t think that for most people, losing tax deductability would affect charitable donations. Do you think that Catholics would stop donating to the poor because of tax changes? Church affiliated organizations could still provide social services as they do now on contract with the government. But huge amounts of income is tax sheltered by being put into not for profit foundations & then paid out in salaries, etc etc and not for services for poor people.
Yutsano
@Jay S: There may be an exemption to the $2K per employee fine in the health care law, but my understanding is it applies to any employer with over 50 employees. I could be wrong here however. And it would make church employment very unattractive.
Marc McKenzie
Yeah, but Obama’s still a drone-loving Repub on the inside who wants to gut SS and Medicare!!! And he’s done nothing!!
….of course, I kid. Figured I’d just put it out there before someone else did.
And speaking as a Catholic….I’m saddened and disgusted by what I’ve read in the article. I agree with John on this one.
OzoneR
@cat48: A few people have said they liked Obama but were leaning Romney because they believed GOP would stop being jerks if they win.
“Country is more important than Obama,” one told me.
Never underestimate the American people’s ability to cave to hostage takers. Deep down, Ed Rendell is right, we’re wusses.
gaz
If that statement wasn’t so disgusting it would be hilarious.
Luckily for them, they’ve got guys like burnspbesq who will equivocate, hand-wring about evidence, and allow their own sense of decency to take a backseat to their loyalty to this monstrous institution – anything to avoid taking a real stand or making a hard choice. It’s shameful, but it’s all too common.
Lolis
@Clime Acts:
For one, they are calling Romney a smart, responsible governor like his transition team leader. I have not seen one thing from Romney this year that I would call smart or responsible.
gaz
@Marc McKenzie: Christ would welcome you, if you chose to follow him instead of Ratzinger. All are welcome.
chopper
@Comrade Dread:
to me the only way the catholic church could ever really fade away in this country is if they did something really insane like, I dunno, allow priests to rape boys and cover up the crimes oh, wait.
Baud
@OzoneR: Do you think those people really liked Obama? I often wonder how much of that crap is real and how much is just a convenient excuse for voting the way they want to vote anyway.
Clime Acts
From Ezra Klein’s article:
That’s the president’s prediction. “I believe that if we’re successful in this election, when we’re successful in this election, that the fever may break, because there’s a tradition in the Republican Party of more common sense than that,” Obama has said. “My hope, my expectation, is that after the election, now that it turns out that the goal of beating Obama doesn’t make much sense because I’m not running again, that we can start getting some cooperation again.”
Or, as a battered wife might say, “Johnny is a good, good man. People just don’t understand him like I do. I know he will stop beating me just as soon as I make breakfast right…”
Has there ever been a more codependent motherfucker in the White House?
Clime Acts
@Marc McKenzie:
I’ll bite: Why the hell are you still a Catholic?
Redshift
@Jay S: You are correct, that part is a complete lie.
I guess priests get a pass on the whole “thou shalt not bear false witness” thing.
Maude
@Baud:
I doubt they voted for Obama in 08.
gaz
@Redshift: According to the behaviors of the RCC Hierarchy, not the least of which – the pope himself, they also get a pass on the “Thou shalt not rape children” thing.
Jay S
@Yutsano: OK, I haven’t been able to get much on what is exempt for churches. I’m pretty sure they didn’t have the same comprehensive coverage rules from the start (that they were exempt from providing birth control or abortion coverage) as part of the plans they offered, but perhaps they still had the mandate to cover as a large employer. Is anyone up on the state of the law and the rules for church employers?
gaz
@asiangrrlMN: I fucking wish. That institution has so much fuck-you money it probably wouldn’t even slow them down though. Then again who knows? Property taxes would be a bitch, I suppose.
OzoneR
@Maude: At least one of them, my cousin in Connecticut, definitely did.
Yutsano
@Jay S: The states mandated that they cover contraception and birth control without issue. Somehow they determined to make political hay out of it now possibly on direction from the Vatican. Up until the ACA all this was mostly state insurance commissioners. Which is part of the reason behind state exchanges.
different-church-lady
Even the kids?
Baud
@OzoneR: That’s a really amazing thought process you’re cousin is going through. The blogs often criticize the Democrats for not being tough, and maybe it’s in part because Democratic voters really don’t have any fight in them.
Anne Laurie
@Kathy:
Hell, especially women with 4 or 5 kids! I grew up in a blue-collar very Catholic neighborhood back in the 1960s, and even then all the families had a sharp eye on the ‘tipping point’ where you went from A Fine Catholic Family to A Drain on the Parish. Their options were fewer, less reliable, and not nearly as socially acceptable… but most of my parochial-school classmates grew up in families of 4 or 5, not 8 or 9. Or 16, like one “unfortunate” couple that was regularly pointed out as the wages of (according to the nuns) undue piety and a lack of planning, or (according to the Dominican Brothers on the boys’ side of the high school) an inability to control ones’ sexual lusts.
MikeJ
@different-church-lady: If they hang around with priests I hope so.
different-church-lady
@Marc McKenzie: I’m surprised we got to #71 before someone beat you to it.
Baud
@Yutsano:
They may be smell a 5th solidly conservative Supreme Court justice (not a part-timer like Kennedy).
gaz
I have a quibble with the title of the post.
Onward
ChristianCatholic Soldiers.They are not the same thing, and don’t follow the same tenets.
Basically, the Mexicans have it right. There are Christians and there are Catholics.
Apologies for any shattered fee-fees but I’d be happy to elaborate.
Or shorter: Just listen to the Mexicans. They get this.
patrick II
@Sad_Dem:
You never do entirely.
Heliopause
Insane and stupid. Catholics went 54-45 for Obama in ’08.
mainmati
@Sad_Dem: I was raised Catholic K-12 but maybe because it was the ’60s, my teachers were mostly not crazies. In any event, by the time I was 14 the enormous logical inconsistencies and cruelties in the Bible turned me into an agnostic (an atheistic is someone who affirms something which cannot be proved one way or another and so is a little pointless). Since then, the upper clergy’s horrible misogyny has only affirmed my stance. But it’s a bit of a shame since there are a lot of priests, nuns and brothers doing good social work without being dogmatic.
scav
I’m reeeeealllllly trying to meld Pope Ratzi-kaze (Kami-Ratzi?) from Kamikaze and Ratzi because they are beginning to exhibit that kind of flying/navigation skill and devotion to cause.
Yutsano
@Heliopause:
No doubt they want that ratio reversed in the next election. Interesting that they would rather have an apostate in the Oval Office.
magurakurin
@cat48: Jesus. Is that battered spouse syndrome, or what? If we’re quiet and do what they say the beatings aren’t so long.
It’s like the plan of the less courageous villagers in The Magnificent Seven, “Caldera doesn’t take all our food. He lives us a little to eat.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Walker: I can conceive of no application of Just War theory that would support the Iraq war. IIRC the Catholic Church was opposed to the war – not to the point of doing anything about it, because they didn’t want to get involved in politics (ha!) – but opposed nonetheless.
Cato
Only TWENTY-FOUR HOURS LEFT until VICTORY IN WISCONSIN!
Or I should say, until Scott Walker’s victory is official. He’s got in the bag already. Thank you Citizens Untied. Thanks Super PACs.
gaz
@Cato: Please reserve your masturbation for threads where it is at least on topic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cato: Okay, I’ll bite. Twelve hours? The polls open in about 11 hours, close in a little less than 24, and it will Friday before all the absentee ballots are in, so where do you get 12 hours?
Cato
@Chaz Bono:
Go blow a goat.
Cato
@Omnes Omnibus:
I wrote twenty-four dipshit. It’s not going to be close enough where the absentee ballots matter. Sure, maybe Barrett will come within two points, and liberals will be hoping and praying the absentee ballots and useless recounts save them, but by that point every objective observer will know that Scott Walker and the Koch Brothers win yet again.
Baud
@Cato:
Bullshit. I saw 12 hours also. You really are a Republican…lies and all.
Cato
@Baud:
Cool story, bro. Maybe you should get tested for dyslexia.
Yutsano
@Cato: Your presence has rendered this thread shit. Homophobe.
Cato
So, what does Scott Walker’s victory in the recall election mean for November? Does it mean Wisconsin is in play?
Baud
@Cato:
Sure, right after you get tested for whatever mental disease makes someone spend all their time on a blog where they’re not welcome.
Yutsano
@Cato: No. Dickhead.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cato: My error for not copying your original comment, I guess. Your dishonesty in changing a substantive aspect of your comment without noting the fact.
Any idea how many absentee ballots there are? Any idea how many voters there are in WI? Any idea how large the turnout is expected to be? My prediction is no. Without knowing those things, you can’t really say that the absentees won’t matter, you dishonest, sniveling shit.
Cato
@Yutsano:
Why not? Walker’s victory has shown the power of Super PAC advertising in a swing state.
Heliopause
@Yutsano:
This Jenky person seems to have forgotten that roughly a third of the American Catholic church is latino. If he wants Obama voted out he should be trying to suppress the Catholic vote, not encourage it.
mainmati
@Anne Laurie: Also grew up in the ’60s Irish Catholic family with six kids in a lower middle class family. All of us ended up graduating from college or more because parents were focused on education and getting ahead. But we were the farthest thing from Goopers; you can be ambitious and also fair. Of course, none of us kids have more than two kids of our own and several adoptees.
gaz
@Cato: You wrote 12 originally. Actually, IIRC, you wrote TWELVE in bold letters. You were wrong. That’s not so bad, it happens. But you’ve repeatedly lied about it, which makes you a punk.
Cato
@Omnes Omnibus:
What matters is money. And Walker has outspent Barrett by a shit-ton.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cato: What matters is votes.
Yutsano
@Cato: Worked so well for Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman. Oh wait…
Cato
@Yutsano:
California is too Democrat for that strategy to work. But Wisconsin is a swing state. This is the first real Citizens Untied test in a purple state.
gaz
@Yutsano: Anyone want to start a John Doe indictment pool? ;)
Cato
@Yutsano:
Plus, they were using their own money, it wasn’t Super PAC cash put behind “independent” (lol) front groups. That’s much more effective with voters.
Yutsano
@gaz: I’m game. I call July 5th.
@Cato: It’s funny that you think there is a difference. Wait…I accused you of thinking. My bad, good little Republican rube.
scav
Cato would bring pompoms to his mother’s selling herself to the Koch boys and insist she lower the price. As he has demonstrated time and again, In Bold.
karen
@gaz:
All Catholics are Christians. But not all Christians are Catholics.
mainmati
@Cato: WI went +14 for Obama in 2008. It’s not really a swing state; it’s highly unpredictable but usually ends up in the Dem column in Presidential years. Almost no recall elections succeed. The fact that this one is so close is revealing . Walker almost certainly will be voted out in the next Gubernatorial election.
handy
weak.
gaz
@Yutsano: Disclaimer: It’ll have to be a “gentleman’s bet” because my walking around money is tied up bribing some rural mexican officials right now. Long story, has to do with housing and health insurance issues.
Anyway, I’z a broke bitch at the moment. =)
I’ve got one unicorn on July 15th. =)
karen
Apparently both Ezra and Inglis seem to believe that the GOP has become the Yakuza only instead of extorting us for money, they’re extorting us for votes.
Omnes Omnibus
What sad is that taco had an opportunity to reply to my original comment by saying something supremely arrogant like “Walker will have so many votes that he will have the whole thing sewn up in the first hour,” but he had to be true to his nature and be a dishonest hack.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
He’s emulating his hero Rmoney.
gaz
@karen: Put simply, Christians are followers of Christ, while Catholics are followers of the Pope.
Furthermore, most 3rd world Catholics barely know of Jesus, instead engaging in Saint fetishism due to the bullshit antics of Catholic priests that have historically operated in the 3rd world. The majority of them don’t have even a passing familiarity with scripture. Since this basically covers the huge swaths of Catholic followers, there’s that. So it’s safe enough to say not all Catholics are Christians. In fact HUGE numbers of them aren’t.
Again, I’m with the Mexicans. Call a Catholic a Christian to a Mexican national (of either Catholic or Christian persuasion) and they’ll just look at you like you are an idiot.
Yutsano
@gaz: I think the Mexicans get at least one detail right: they dignify and emulate Mary Magdalene in ways few other Christians do. And she does get a raw deal from the Council of Nicea. They left out her Gospel.
@Baud: It’s still hilarious that he has yet to give one reason to vote for Willard. Then again neither has Willard. Apparently that talking point is still being processed by his handlers.
burnspbesq
@Comrade Dread:
I’m going to do exactly what Bishop Jenky said. I’m going to vote my Catholic conscience. I rather doubt I’ll be voting for the candidate he’d like me to vote for.
gaz
@Yutsano: I’ve no truck with that, but it falls under the saint fetishism that I spoke of – and my distinction of the two is not intended as a denigration of the 3rd world Catholics, but rather an observation of reality. In fact, I’m not offended by them the same way I’m offended by 1st world Catholics who support the RCC. It’s not the same thing, and someone with the benefit of a 1st world education should damn well know better than to support the RCC.
Jebediah
@mainmati:
Given the criminal investigation, there is certainly a chance he won’t make it to the next election anyway.
Perhaps Verisad will now crow about how UNLIMITED CORPORATE CASH will take care of that and what a grand thing that is!
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano:
What about Dan Brown?
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus:
I said Christian, not hack fiction writer. Point taken however.
Jay S
@Yutsano: I was thinking strictly in terms of the ACA exemptions from federal rules.
Of course the bishops were all proper federalists in the past, but now are challenging the states as well. They’re horrified, horrified I tell you, that they had heathen insurance policies foisted upon them in the past.
gaz
@Omnes Omnibus: Mary Magdalene wrote trash novels?
Yutsano
@gaz: Dammit. I knew someone would come up with a better zinger. :)
gaz
@Yutsano: I’m pretty sure you are still ahead on that score, were we keeping count. Besides you get extra credit. You’re still recovering, unless I miss my guess =)
Omnes Omnibus
@gaz: Look, there was a translation error over time. She was a literary, not a literal, whore. I thought everyone knew this.
Mr Stagger Lee
@Citizen_X: Like Pope Pius did when he confronted the Nazis who were rounding up the Jews of Rome…OH SNAP that did not happen..
OK OK like the Nazis who turned in monsters like Joseph Mengele, Adolf Eichmann and Klaus Barbie who tried to use the church to smuggle them out of Europe to South America…Oh wait that didn’t happen either.
Yutsano
@gaz: Yup. Still in recovery and on drugs. No excuses though. Percocet doesn’t stone me that much. :)
gaz
@Mr Stagger Lee:
I see what you did there ;)
gaz
@Omnes Omnibus: LOL. Well Played!
Omnes Omnibus
@gaz: One does one’s best.
gaz
@Yutsano: Maybe you need better drugs?
In any case, allow me to join the choir of voices on this blog in wishing you a speedy recovery. =)
Yutsano
@gaz: I had the option for Dilaudid, but I went with a slightly lighter option. So far I’m okay, but I may need a refill.
gaz
@Yutsano: Meh. My home is being overrun by Mixtecs and they are all looking for my wife. I have no idea where she is, and I don’t yet speak the language. Awwwkward… I really should learn it. =)
Yutsano
@gaz: Crash course :)
burnspbesq
@lacp:
Sorry, but no. That’s not the way it works.
Contributions continue to be deductible until the IRS issues a public notice saying that it has revoked an organization’s exempt status. See Regulations Section 1.508-1(b)(6).
In addition, contributions made during the pendency of a declaratory judgment action in the Tax Court, the District Court for the District of Columbia, or the Court of Federal Claims arising out of a revocation are deductible (within certain limits) regardless of the outcome of the case. See Internal Revenue Code Section 7428(c).
asiangrrlMN
@gaz: Catholic charities get sixty percent of their monies from the ebil gubmint. I think they would feel that. What’s more, I’m willing to give it a whirl just for shits and giggles. And ‘coz they’re pissing me the fuck off right about now.
burnspbesq
@gaz:
Yes, even alleged child molesters are entitled to a fair trial.
You have a problem with that? Take it up with the Framers. They wrote the Constitution, not me.
gaz
@burnspbesq: Specifically I have a problem with the fact that in the face of obvious abuse and obvious coverups (you don’t deny that do you?) is that THIS is what you give a shit about.
Just so we are crystal.
Basic decency and willingness to make a hard choice, and follow Christ takes a back seat to legal maneuvering for you. Speaking as a Christian, you have some seriously fucked up priorities.
FTR, I guarantee you that if (heaven forbid) one of these asshole priests raped one of YOUR children you’d not be here spewing this shit. It’s okay for you though, because it’s comfortably abstract, ain’t it? Keep hiding behind the law. It’s no justification for your equivocation in the face of such atrocity.
gaz
@asiangrrlMN: I’m with you on principle, just pessimistic in thinking that it’d ever happen, or that it would make them stop.
OzoneR
@Baud:
Hey, someone’s got it!
Democratic voters are wusses, and in turn, so are Democratic politicians. They need to be to win.
Look no further than the thousands of people who will vote for Walker tomorrow and Obama in November, or fill out the bubble next to Scott Brown and Barack Obama’s names in November.
All to be “bipartisan”
burnspbesq
@gaz:
Don’t project your lack of principles onto me.
P.S. way to evade a question you’re not comfortable answering.
P.P.S. If you’re ever accused of a crime, it will be interesting to see how quickly “legal manuevering” becomes “fundamental rights.” You can’t have it both ways. Either everybody has those rights, or nobody has them.
mclaren
“The wild hyena is at its most dangerous when dying and cornered.”
mclaren
@burnspbesq:
Sure you can. Read burnspbesq’s frantically futile effort to defend the indefensible AUMF and its association offspring, Obama’s illegal and unconstitutional orders to murder U.S. citizens without even charging them with a crime, or Obama’s grossly unconstitutional acts of conspiracy to collude with local police departments to trample on the right to peaceably assemble by selling his good buddy Rahm Emanuel, the current mayor of Chicago, military LRADs to blast peaceful demonstrators into deafness and permanent nervous system damage as punishment for daring to exercise their constitutional rights.
Like all lawyers, burnspbesq is ready with weasel-like word games to justify the unjustifiable unconstitutional atrocities he happens to personally like.
gaz
@burnspbesq: You are the one that’s evading. First you selectively quote me, then you make it about the legal bullshit again, after I already called you out twice.
As far as lack of principles? Pure projection on your part. You are the one that falters when confronted with a difficult choice. You are ignoring your material support of an organization whose dominant members you admitted on the this same thread have no moral high ground. You. As a Christian, I call you out – as is my Christian duty, when confronted with someone who claims Christianity and falters when their own convictions are tested. Projection, burns, you’re absolutely steeped in it.
“If you’re ever accused of a crime, it will be interesting to see how quickly “legal manuevering”…”
blah blah.
That’s not what this is about. There you go being evasive. And you have no idea what I’d do or have done when faced with criminal charges.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Local Catholic radio has been on a rant about teh gheys, teh Pill and teh Agnosticism being “shoved down our throats”. They’ve been pushing the political angle, bitching endlessly about Obama and there being only one choice this fall. Pull their tax exempt status, they’re not even pretending to stay out of politics any more.
As if they ever have.
gaz
@burnspbesq: I apologize for calling you evil twice now. Upon reflection, it’s clear to me that you are most likely not actually evil, but weak. Dolan is evil. In any case, I do pray for you. Just not on the board. ;)
One day, I hope you figure it out, sincerely. Hopefully before “you are in the ground” (as you said the other day). Clock’s ticking, I imagine.
JoyfulA
@different-church-lady: The kids in the congregation are using contraceptive devices as water balloons.
HEY YOU
@Valdivia:
Stop every form of tax dollars going to any religion.
How’s that Separation of church & state working now.
Pseudonym
@gaz: Catholics are Christians according to any reasonable definition of Christian. They recite the Nicene Creed at Mass. They are Trinitarians. They profess faith in Jesus as God the Son. Saint fetishes and reverence for tradition over scripture are not salient to this categorization. You can argue they aren’t “true” Christians, but that’s just the kind of internecine conflict that members of every Christian sect start with every other.
gaz
@Pseudonym: “They profess faith in Jesus as God the Son.”
This statement is categorically incorrect when it comes to a plurality – if not all – of 3rd world Catholics.
” Saint fetishes and reverence for tradition over scripture are not salient to this categorization. ”
Because of course, the 3rd world browns don’t count, amirite?
While some Catholics are Christian, many are not.
The above is simply plain fact. You may not like it, but that doesn’t make it any less true.
And my personal beef:
The above facts don’t even get into the issue that the Catholics have a Pope problem. Particularly in Ratzinger. Man in place of God is not Christian, and one cannot serve two masters.
Omnes Omnibus
@gaz: So, in this context, you are going to rely on the beliefs/practices of the laity not the hierarchy?
Valdivia
@HEY YOU:
that would be quite perfect to my mind. No reason for any Church or religion getting any tax dollars. Or special exempt status if they are acting as political players.
gaz
@Valdivia: I’d get on board, with the qualifier you added – the one that HEY YOU neglected “if they are acting as political players”
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes. When I judge somebody’s faith I would not be unfair as to apply another set of beliefs other than the ones they claim to follow. So yeah, I’m relying on their professed beliefs. The Hierarchy is a wholly different animal, and in my belief, they are anti-Christian, possibly satanic.
When I was remarking on the 3rd world Catholics, I guess they’d be part of the laity, right? They are not Christian. I’m not saying they are bad people, but I’m saying they are not Christian. They do not know Christ, and have no interest in entertaining a relationship with Christ, and aside from a few possible formulaic recitations directed by the mass leader – (and only in some cases mind you, ever been to A rural Mexican Mass?) they have not accepted Christ into their hearts in any tangible way.
If you are talking about my personal beef? That’s based on my interpretation of scripture. I’m not alone in that, but I said it was my personal beef for a reason. Catholics talk about the Pope. Christians talk about Christ. Scripture is quite clear about the two masters thing. And the Pope himself is if anything Man in place of God. Sorry to restate, but those two points are fundamental to my belief about the Catholic’s Pope problem.
brantl
The church Heirarchy is schizophrenic about the laity. They often confuse the idea that people are sinful and doing something that the heirarchy thinks the laity knowsis wrong, with something which the laity just knows the heirarchy is full of shit about.It’s all that born imperfect/original sin/constant sinner bullshit that Christians (most especially Catholics) buy into.
brantl
The church Heirarchy is schizophrenic about the laity. They often confuse the idea that people are sinful and doing something that the heirarchy thinks the laity knowsis wrong, with something which the laity just knows the heirarchy is full of shit about.It’s all that born imperfect/original sin/constant sinner bullshit that Christians (most especially Catholics) buy into.
lacp
@burnspbesq: Yes, but they can order us to cease and desist fundraising activities immediately.