Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

In after Baud. Damn.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

Donald Jessica Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

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Reader Interactions

201Comments

  1. 1.

    General Stuck

    Brooks needs to put down the Hayek/Burke dick shrinking mumbo jumbo, and start listening to more Led Zepellin/

    big legged woman ain’t got no soul

    ba boom ba boom ba boom boom.

  6. 6.

    scav

    Ain’t no Jamie-Oliver Broccoli Loving Mee-chelle Vegetable-Lovers going to tell THEM what to eat, yee-ha!

    @JPL: Probably both.

  9. 9.

    Jebediah

    I know I am not the only one who has wondered what our blog host does for a living. Wonder no more! He is a political cartoonist.

    And don’t nobody go telling me it isn’t him. There’s no way, with a name as polysyllabically bizarre and unusual as “John Cole,” that there could be someone else with the same name.

  11. 11.

    Mnemosyne

    Meh, as long as it’s not paired with a “No Fat Chicks” bumper sticker, I don’t have a problem with it.

  19. 19.

    Cassidy

    Really people? You know that some of our people here struggle with weight and associated issues. Please be mindful.

  20. 20.

    Derelict

    I often picture Brooks as being one of those upper-crust piffs who recoils when meeting actual working-class people. I think he’s someone who thinks giving the gardener $10 at Christmas is an extravagant show of largess and satisfies an entire year worth of charitable giving.

  22. 22.

    suzanne

    Ugh. Now eemom’s gonna come in here and get her anti-fat bigotry all over the carpet again.

  25. 25.

    Raven

    I woke up this mornin’ feelin’ so good
    You know, I lay back down again
    Throw your big leg over me mama
    I might not feel this good again

    Taj Cakewalk

  26. 26.

    red dog

    Rubenesque is the polite way to say you are a fat chick. This gal must be a WalMart model.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    @scav:

    I offer Paul Rubens’ ‘Het Pslsken’ which might need to come with a warning for the sensitively inclined.

    For some reason I had expected that to be a link to an Eastern European recipe for pickled cabbage with cured meat sandwich.

  30. 30.

    Roger Moore

    @JPL:

    Looks like she never found the salad bar.

    What makes you think the salad bar is going to be any healthier and less fattening than the rest of the menu? Yeah, a salad bar typically has some veggies, but it usually has a whole bunch of stuff like macaroni salad or potato salad that are basically big chunks of starch held together with mayonnaise. And the salad bar is all you can eat. You wind up with people gorging themselves on high calorie food that they’ve convinced themselves is healthy because it has the name “salad” added at the end.

  31. 31.

    scav

    @Corner Stone: He may very well have loved those too, possibly quire as much, but I don’t think the Netherlands in the 1600s had quite slid down the slope to Man-Sandwich marriages.

  33. 33.

    Valdivia

    @Yutsano:

    I know right. I don’t even think the empty the gin bottle, drink, then use bottle to hit yourself in the head (suggested from the previous thread) would work.

  35. 35.

    Roger Moore

    @Yutsano:

    Not. Enough. Alcohol. For. That.

    Especially given that this is the Rmoney family vacation. They’ve probably demanded that the Secret Service find and destroy any alcohol within a 5 mile radius.

  38. 38.

    Yutsano

    @Valdivia: It will get worse of course. The inevitable comparison to Michelle going to Spain or the Obamas going to Hawai’i (I was born there too assholes, wanna see my long form?) is coming. I’m thinking going into a coma until Nov 7th sounds more and more attractive.

  39. 39.

    jheartney

    @Cassidy: I agree. “Fat = DISGUSTING” is plain bigoted ignorance. Bear in mind that both our esteemed host and his much-beloved cat aren’t exactly twigs.

    I do think the image is an interesting example of tangled culture references. On the one hand you have the classic objectifying image of the stripper, but when you add in the more realistic proportions, what are you saying? Are you making fun of the notion of objectification by pointing out that real women rarely look anything like that? Or are you taking a potshot at strip club patrons by showing what their objects of desire would look like with the patrons’ BMI’s? Or is it a celebration of BBW fetishization? I can’t tell.

  40. 40.

    Linda Featheringill

    Might I suggest that you snotty-nosed anti-fat children get to a public place on the weekend and look at children and their mothers. You will note that women of ALL shapes and sizes manage to reproduce. So they obviously excited somebody at some time.

    The world is such a hard place and there is so much wrong with it and yet you choose to take the time to make fun of fat women?

    And you expect me to respect you and listen to your opinions?

  41. 41.

    gbear

    @Valdivia: There is a pretty good joke in the comments about “the [Romney family] baseball games where everyone starts off on third base”.

  44. 44.

    JPL

    @Yutsano: The Obama’s don’t have the number of vacations homes the Romney’s have. In fact the Obama’s only have one home.
    Whatever happened to Romney’s comment about vacationing in Paris? Did the MSM decide to bury that comment?

  46. 46.

    RossInDetroit

    @Roger Moore:

    Yeah, a salad bar typically has some veggies, but it usually has a whole bunch of stuff like macaroni salad or potato salad that are basically big chunks of starch held together with mayonnaise. And the salad bar is all you can eat. You wind up with people gorging themselves on high calorie food that they’ve convinced themselves is healthy because it has the name “salad” added at the end.

    That stuff is on salad bars because it’s cheap and keeps well. Very low waste on the fat-heavy ‘salads’. And have you taken a look at a salad at a Mexican restaurant? Cheese, olives, avocado, meat, refried beans, more meat, lettuce. Served in a fried tortilla ‘bowl’. I feel less healthy just typing that.

  49. 49.

    Jewish Steel

    m_c, timmy and eemom? All gone? Huh, I guess it has been kinda quiet around here.

  51. 51.

    catclub

    @kc: She said that JCole never has the balls to ban anyone. … and out she went. It were funny.

  52. 52.

    GxB

    Rate things are going “famine resistant” is probably going to be on the upswing unironically.

  53. 53.

    Yutsano

    @Raven: I thought you had set plans for that. Be prepared for really great coffee and do try to go to a luau. Even the touristy ones are still great experiences. Hawai’i has a great Native culture.

  57. 57.

    catclub

    @Jewish Steel: I am still hoping that the banning technique is that their comments appear, BUT ONLY TO THEM.

    Then they post ever more furiously in order to get a response.

    But how would I know?

  58. 58.

    Micheline

    Lets get real being fat is not healthy. And for most of human existence being fat was not the norm. It is just that the way society is set up, there’s been increasing obesity problem. Now that doesn’t mean that fat people should be treated nastily but doesn’t they should be coddled.

  61. 61.

    kc

    @catclub:

    That is kinda funny. Reminds me of the time I told my friend he didn’t have the balls to throw me in the ocean, and he threw me in the ocean. In my linen suit …

  63. 63.

    Raven

    @Yutsano: This is a wedding event. We plan to do the volcano but for sunset instead of sunrise. I hit an article that said it’s really great at sunset and there is no one there. My extreme fishing trip leaves anywhere from 11pm the night before to 3am that morning. This boat is the only one on Maui with a native captain. The luau sounds great but the reviews I read for the “most authentic (no fire or other non-native stuff) say that if you don’t eat swine and drink the unlimited booze it may not be worth the heavy tab.

  64. 64.

    sharl

    IIRC, Cole commented in a subsequent post that he only banned eemom for 2-3 hours. Either she was not aware that such bannings around here are usually temporary, or she has gone into self-imposed exile.

  67. 67.

    JPL

    The last time I went to a salad bar was ten or fifteen years ago and they did have some unhealthy selections. We have a chain called Zaxby’s that I occasionally get a salad from with grilled chicken. It’s not bad and if you don’t use all the dressing, it’s a tad healthier option. Of course if you use the dressing and eat the Texas toast and select fried chicken then the calories add up. It’s about choices though.

  68. 68.

    Cassidy

    @Micheline: Ahhh, so your one of the people who thinks shaming others into skinny is healthy? Good to know. Shall have to add you to the pie filter, shortly.

    It amazes me that 99% on here would scream and yell at calling a homosexual or minority a slur, and you should see the freakout over the c-word for women, but it’s perfectly okay to make fun of overweight people. And somehow, stating that they would not appreciate being called disgusting is somehow coddling.

  69. 69.

    scav

    @Alexandra: Sounds like the didn’t manage to raise functional adults but rather spawned full size bicycles with braining (ETA, snort, Training!) wheels permanently welded on.

  73. 73.

    JPL

    @Raven: What is this I think..
    Have a wonderful trip and make sure that you share lots of pictures. Cokie Roberts will now called you an elitist snob for visiting a foreign country.

  74. 74.

    Jewish Steel

    @Raven: Ha! Mr. Romney’s technique is working.

    @BGinCHI: Reposted from a previous thread:

    Why won’t Cuomo play nationally or in the swing states? I know nothing about him. Is he too Noo Yawkah or something?

  75. 75.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Cassidy:

    They aren’t making fun of fat people. They are making fun of fat women.

    The niggers of the world.

  77. 77.

    Raven

    @JPL: It was a play on the comment I was replying to.
    I’ve been there twice. Once for an hour on the way to you know where and once in 1990. That was strictly Oahu so I’m really looking forward to this one.

  79. 79.

    suzanne

    @Micheline:

    Lets get real being fat is not healthy. And for most of human existence being fat was not the norm. It is just that the way society is set up, there’s been increasing obesity problem. Now that doesn’t mean that fat people should be treated nastily but doesn’t they should be coddled.

    There’s a difference between “coddling” and reminding them at every waking moment that they are “inferior” for not conforming to patriarchal standards of attractiveness.

    Their doctors can talk to them about their health. They don’t need any of us to do it.

  81. 81.

    suzanne

    @Linda Featheringill:

    The world is such a hard place and there is so much wrong with it and yet you choose to take the time to make fun of fat women?
    And you expect me to respect you and listen to your opinions?

    Have I told you recently that I love the hell out of you?

  83. 83.

    Yutsano

    @Valdivia: I about shit when I saw that. Uninsured? Probably just lazy layabouts! We’re still taxing Job Creators man!

  84. 84.

    kc

    @sharl:

    Yeah, I just found the thread. Pretty funny. If I were (still) a blogger I’d ban everyone who pissed me off. ;)

  85. 85.

    suzanne

    Heh. I’ve obviously been too busy. I’m missing what sounds like some hilarious shit.

  86. 86.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Linda Featheringill:
    That’s really not a good analogy to draw.

    @Micheline:
    Being “overweight” (by current popular standards) is not unhealthy. Obesity is frequently unhealthy and morbid obesity decidedly so, but not being “overweight”. The woman depicted in the picture is not obese.

  87. 87.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @jheartney:
    Occam’s razor. The purchaser/displayer is stating that they find that shape of woman attractive. It’s not my preferred, although I’ve certainly known some women who overcame that minor impediment with a sexy personality. As long as they’re not actively hurting someone or shoving it hard into your face, I say let people lust and more power to them.

  88. 88.

    Jewish Steel

    @Yutsano: Oh, the uninsured may be the issue now but if we let em get sick enough, they won’t trouble us overlong.

  89. 89.

    suzanne

    @Micheline: I know I personally go up to everyone I meet who appears to engage in behavior that I deem unhealthy and tell them they should stop “for their own good”.

    Oh, wait, no I don’t. Because I’m not an asshole. Try it sometime.

  91. 91.

    catclub

    @Alexandra: I was surprised that they did not include a description of the Obamas’ vacation as going to vegas and getting drunk with strippers. That, or a six pack of fo’tys and a boombox on the front stoop.

  94. 94.

    Raven

    Why don’t we just save this thread and post it every time the subject comes up?

  95. 95.

    Cluttered Mind

    eemom’s MO involved slinging ad hominem attacks at anyone who disagreed with her. Couldn’t be happier that she’s gone.

  96. 96.

    Cluttered Mind

    eemom’s MO involved slinging ad hominem attacks at anyone who disagreed with her. Couldn’t be happier that she’s gone.

  97. 97.

    scav

    Being overly concerned with ‘weight’ to the exclusion of all other factors of health is also unhealthy, especially when the ideals of ‘weight-appropriate’ are driven by magazine ads and mud-flaps. And I’m most grumpy. That was MY storm and it didn’t even rain on me.

  98. 98.

    Soonergrunt

    @Valdivia: As one wag there noted, they forgot to mention how the Romneys play monopoly with real money and how the baseball games have every runner starting at 3rd base.

  99. 99.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Jewish Steel:
    Absolutely. A very common preference, actually! As much as the entertainment industry in its many aspects has pushed blonde, deeply tanned twigs with perfectly spherical breasts (definitely not my preference either) as the only socially acceptable type of feminine beauty, people’s tastes are as wildly varied as the many different looks humans can have.

  101. 101.

    Yutsano

    @suzanne: Waitaminute. You DON’T walk up to an overweight woman on the street eating a Krispy Kreme, smack it out of her hand, and publicly berate her for five minutes?

  104. 104.

    GxB

    @Yutsano: The money shot being:

    We’re not going to turn the American health care system into a Western European system.

    God forbid we have something that fucking works.

    To illustrate, my folks are retired life long (mostly) Dems, even they are astounded when I tell them some facts about the success of the socialist havens of the world. They don’t touch Fox, they don’t hang with Rethugs, but that Wingnut Wurlitzer has amps that go to 11 and still cloud their judgment.

  106. 106.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    That’s a quote from John Lennon. Probably from before your time and therefore out of context for you. And it might need context.

  108. 108.

    FDRLincoln

    I eat fairly healthy, get 20-30 minutes of exercise every day, and I watch my fat and cholesterol and carb intakes as best I can while raising two children and working 10-12 hours a day 6-7 days a week. I lost 20 pounds two years ago and have kept it off.

    Guess what…I’m still 60 pounds overweight and still fat.

    So fuck you people who think being skinny is some sign of moral superiority.

  111. 111.

    ReflectedSky

    Wow. Fat shaming. Those of you doing must be so proud, and so thin, and so upper class, and so powerful. Do you have your bonds packed in your Aspen Institute tote bags?

    It used to be that fleshy was sexy in part because only the wealthy could afford enough food to be fleshy. Now, only the wealthy can afford to exercise a lot and generally feel empowered enough to resist the constant messaging about and availability of refined grain products. So the poor are heavier and OF COURSE that’s entirely because they are lazy, immortal and it’s a really good idea to scorn them. Just like cutting off their govmint benefits. The more we more it clear we despise them, the faster they’ll look like Victoria’s Secret models and marry Goldman Sachs bankers and all will be well.

    And yes, I realize that people are not being forced to consume junk and that you can find ways to exercise and be healthy without being wealthy. I’m dead broke and go to the gym three times a week. Of course, that’s in lieu of getting a mammogram and bunch of other strongly recommended health screenings.

    I’m pretty sure that image is a slam at women, and I’m pretty sure that people laughing at it or using it as an excuse to say negative things about women who don’t look like models are jerks. I’d use a stronger term, but I don’t comment here that much, and I don’t feel like getting banned.

  112. 112.

    Soonergrunt

    @Yutsano:

    Waitaminute. You DON’T walk up to an overweight woman on the street eating a Krispy Kreme, smack it out of her hand, and publicly berate her for five minutes?

    I don’t do that, but I also don’t see the KK and think “ah, it’s probably just a glandular problem.”

    And I say that as someone who has steadily gained weight most of my adult life, which accelerated when I retired from the National Guard.

  114. 114.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Raven:

    Ah, I had forgotten that essay, which found its way even to the uncool, out-of-the-way place I lived at the time.

  115. 115.

    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of compassion

    @Micheline: No, for most of human history, it wasn’t the norm. Of course, for most of human history a life span longer than forty years wasn’t the norm, either. Slavery’s been a norm for most of human existence. And human sacrifice. And child marriage. And . . . wait, what were we talking about again?
    It also might be worth considering that in human societies in which it wasn’t the norm, it’s quite often been the IDEAL. Venus of Willendorf ring any bells? How about the Great Mother of Cypress? At least as late as the fifties in the West, the ideal woman was (to say the least) zaftig by today’s standards.
    The ideal woman as twig-thin prepubescent dickless male isn’t exactly the picture of health, either. Do you spend much time in model chatrooms, shaming them for their unhealthy weight?
    Yeah, there are health issues with being morbidly obese, and our country is developing an alarming weight problem. None of which has jackshit to do with the fact that, for most of human history, most males (and quite a few females) have found big women attractive. The fact that you seem to be incapable of making a distinction between fat women as sexual objects, and the potential health risks of morbid obesity, says a lot more about you than it does any of the people you’re sneering at.

  116. 116.

    BGinCHI

    @Jewish Steel: Yep, pretty much. I don’t think ethnic New Englanders play very well in most places right now, unless they are proto-fascists like Rudy.

  117. 117.

    gogol's wife

    @BGinCHI:

    Oh, I was puzzled for a minute by the phrase “ethnic New Englanders,” because I didn’t know New Englander was an ethnos. I guess it’s shorthand for “Italian-American New Englanders”?

    Re an earlier thread: I’m getting into Wolf Hall, finally.

    I miss eemom. And even m_c.

  119. 119.

    Corner Stone

    @ReflectedSky:

    So the poor are heavier and OF COURSE that’s entirely because they are lazy, immortal and it’s a really good idea to scorn them.

    So that’s how the meek are going to inherit the earth!

  120. 120.

    BGinCHI

    @gogol’s wife: Yeah: Cuomo. Just don’t see him doing well nationally. Nothing against him or his ethnicity or his region.

    Glad you’re reading it again.

  122. 122.

    ruemara

    Where were all these bountiful female admirers 30 stone ago? And considering what I have to do to stay slim and trim, plus the efforts I go through to lose even more because in my industry, thin=successful, double fuck the haters. I’m no smarter, talented or capable, just thinner, and somehow, that’s the criteria that gets attention.

  123. 123.

    Snetzky

    Plush women are sublime.

    1) They tend to be less neurotic about how they look than skinny bags of antlers that pass for “hot” these days.
    2) From my own experience, anyway, they’re more fun to be around in general, because they’ve had to develop a personality to make up for not being “hot”.

    That’s not to say that being morbidly obese is good because it tends to mean there are other problems, (diabetes, etc) but a woman who is plush without being overstuffed is a treasure. Fun to hold, fun to cuddle, fun to talk with.

  124. 124.

    JPL

    This morning the Ancient Randonneur posted this gem

    I’m A LittleTeaTurd!
    Short On Clout!
    Here Is My Anger!
    Here Is My Pout!
    When I Get Steamed Up!
    Bile Comes Out!
    Disagree With Me!
    And Hear Me Shout!
    Author Unknown

  126. 126.

    Jewish Steel

    @gogol’s wife: Don’t forget us in your NE melting pot, the Joos!

    I agree that even batty obsessives bring something to the BJ table. Even if they bring too much of it. Over and over. Ad nauseam.

  127. 127.

    JPL

    @Raven: no shit..
    I’m not sure what era we are entering where the poorer communities are losing libraries and Mitt thinks college is for those with money. Maybe it’s the heat that finally drove me over the edge, but I’ve been bitchy and depressed all day.

  128. 128.

    RossInDetroit

    And furthermore, from a little farther away from the weight issue why do we accept that ‘sexiness’, whether physical or personality, should be a significant part of our self worth and worth to other people? Because if you think about it that’s more than a little sick.

    ETA: this is because I was thinking about toothpaste yesterday. One brand came out with the catchphrase ‘Sex Appeal’ in the ’70s and people were shocked. I was shocked and I was just a kid. Does dentifrice have so much to do with sexual attraction that it should be used as a primary selling point?

  129. 129.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Snetzky:
    Really, is it that hard to not mock women of any size at all? It’s not about your penis. There are under-weight women who have no more control over that than over-weight women, why sneer at them? If a woman is starving herself to fit some fleeting social ideal, then I’m going to be far more concerned about her mental and emotional well-being than I am about her attractiveness. Of course, I’m not a man and therefore not fiven to judging the worth of women by whether or not there’s a dick-twitch but could you at least try?

  130. 130.

    suzanne

    @Yutsano:

    Waitaminute. You DON’T walk up to an overweight woman on the street eating a Krispy Kreme, smack it out of her hand, and publicly berate her for five minutes?

    Nope. LMAO.
    I don’t get who some people use the “BUT FAT IS UNHEALTHY!!!” justification as an excuse to be nasty to fat people. First of all, the relationship between weight and health appears to be complicated. And second of all, if you assume that’s true, WHO GOES AROUND TREATING SICK PEOPLE LIKE SHIT?! Smokers don’t need me to tell them that smoking is bad for their health (and most people don’t feel culturally empowered to say that to smokers, anyway). People that suntan are doing something ill-advised, and no one says shit to them. But so many people feel justified in making fat people’s lives hell and fool themselves to thinking that they’re doing them a favor.

    Other people’s lives and health aren’t my business, apart from me doing my part to ensure they they have as much social/structural support they need to live the lives they want.

  131. 131.

    Corner Stone

    @RossInDetroit:

    why do we accept that ‘sexiness’, whether physical or personality, should be a significant part of our self worth and worth to other people? Because if you think about it that’s more than a little sick.

    As a measure of self worth that’s fine as far as it goes.
    But I’m not sure what this really means.

  132. 132.

    GxB

    @Snetzky:

    neurotic about how they look than skinny bags of antlers that pass for “hot” these days.

    Come now, Coulter, Malkin and any random Fox Bimbette are fine examples of well adjusted humanity.

    @JPL: Score! That’s getting saved for posterity.

  133. 133.

    Lurker

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    Being “overweight” (by current popular standards) is not unhealthy. Obesity is frequently unhealthy and morbid obesity decidedly so, but not being “overweight”.

    One of the things HBO’s WEIGHT OF THE NATION documentary made clear in Part 1 was that even overweight people who never become obese face health risks. They interviewed a Type-II diabetic who was never obese, only overweight. His modest amount of excess body fat was enough for him to contract Type-II diabetes. They also interviewed a young lady who was just overweight. She was at risk for diabetes. They also showed overweight (not obese) kids who were at risk of hypertension and diabetes.

    I have a BMI above 25, and I am not an athlete. I’m working on losing a pound a week right now for my health. So far I’ve managed to reduce my BMI from 28.3 to 26.8, but I have a ways to go. Even after I acheive my goal, I have to deal with the BS of maintaining a healthier weight.

    That said…

    @suzanne:

    …doctors can talk to [overweight folks] about their health. They don’t need any of us to do it.

    No kidding. I already KNOW I’m overweight. I have this amazing “mirror” and “scale” technology that informs me of this fact every day.

  135. 135.

    Micheline

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Oh please, I never used the word overweight to describe someone as unhealthy. The words chunky, voluptuous or plump are not synonymous with fat so don’t try to put words in my mouth. My stating that being fat isn’t healthy is not the same as discriminating people on the basis of weight. I think that people should be treated with respect but that doesn’t mean one should ignore the effects of being fat.

  136. 136.

    Valdivia

    Sorry now we went from insulting women who have weight issues to calling skinny women neurotic bitches? I think neither is right no? Or it’s ok to rag on skinny women?

  137. 137.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Lurker:
    Everyone faces health risks, no matter their size. I have friends who are walking testaments to good exercise and diet with screaming high blood pressure or cholesterol. They’ve always eaten well and exercised and looked fantastic, and they still have severe health problems.

    Being overweight is not, in and of itself, a sign that one is unhealthy and it’s moronic to argue otherwise.

  138. 138.

    Snetzky

    Being obese is often a sign of an underlying physical or mental health issue.

    For myself, I’m much more of an emotional eater. I tend to eat out of boredom, or to self medicate. If I stay on the two meds the doctor prescribed and keep an eye on my caffeine intake, and stay involved with with what ever it is I’m doing, I have an easier time of it. Exercise is also key. I also use MyNetDiary on my Android to help me track what I eat, which also helps a great deal.

    I’ve been listening to a hypnosis tape for a week or two which has helped. I seem to find it much easier to eat healthier than I used to.

  139. 139.

    Snetzky

    @Valdivia:
    I was merely reporting on my personal experiences, including one woman who half kidding said “I think we should break up, you don’t go with my handbag.”

    Skinny women aren’t particularly neurotic, but the ones I’ve spent any time with seem to have had issues compared to the ones that were a bit more rounded, (in any number of ways)

  140. 140.

    gogol's wife

    About 10 years ago I lost about 35 pounds, and I was astonished at the kinds of things people felt free to say to me. I made a comment about how small my office was one day, and this guy said, “I bet it feels a lot bigger now, doesn’t it?” And I’m talking about a professor of philosophy. People are very strange about this issue. It’s as if the smaller me wouldn’t mind his making fun of the bigger me (and he was by far not the only one; all men, by the way).

  141. 141.

    Micheline

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Yes how often does it happened someone exercises regularly has high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Besides, their blood pressure would probably be worst if they didn’t exercise.

  143. 143.

    JPL

    @gogol’s wife: The only time I ever said something about weight was to a friend who fed her dog snacks and junk. The dog is twice the size for the breed and I find it abusive. Of course, I only said it once. She switched vets because the vet said something.

  144. 144.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @RossInDetroit:
    Because we are animals, biologically sexual in nature, and it would be impossible to not have significant portions of our self-esteem tied up in sexual attractiveness. Trying to prevent that will cause at least as much emotional damage as our current system, where we way overstress it. But then, America is pretty fucked up (no pun intended) about sex all the way around.

  145. 145.

    Jebediah

    @RossInDetroit:

    And furthermore, from a little farther away from the weight issue why do we accept that ‘sexiness’, whether physical or personality, should be a significant part of our self worth and worth to other people? Because if you think about it that’s more than a little sick.

    This kind of thing has been on my mind a bit lately. I have a niece, about to turn 10, who is quite gorgeous. I worry that well-meaning people around her will make too much of it and warp her ideas of worth. She’s also smart, charming, funny and creative, and I’m hoping the people around her will focus more on those traits. Her parents I trust but the extended family does have a few shallow spots (including a 20-something cousin that she looks up to.)

  146. 146.

    Citizen Alan

    @Micheline:

    Now that doesn’t mean that fat people should be treated nastily but doesn’t they should be coddled.

    Quite right! Similarly, we should stop coddling all those lazy, unemployed moochers by cutting off unemployment benefits.

  147. 147.

    wrb

    I’d rather have people admiring Chris Christie on their mud flaps than in the White House.

  148. 148.

    JPL

    @suzanne: Because I have problems with poison ivy, I’m normally covered when I do weeding. I forgot to put sunscreen on my face and my dear ex-step-sister-in-law had no problem mentioning the color on my face. When I had an employee visiting tanning salons, I didn’t have a problem discussing the pros and cons.

    also, some comments are made from caring..some not so much.. It’s important to know the difference.

  149. 149.

    shortstop

    @ruemara: 30 stone = 420 pounds. I actually know someone who did lose about 400 pounds and has kept it off for 10 years. Quite a journey.

    @Hypatia’s Momma: And some people smoke their whole lives and never get lung cancer or emphysema. Doesn’t negate the reams of evidence linking smoking to serious disease. Being obese or even overweight is solidly linked to many, many negative health outcomes, and the fact that some overweight/obese people escape them (particularly during their younger years–a lot of the bad stuff starts kicking in in middle age or later) doesn’t neutralize the data.

    Look, I’m 100 percent behind never shaming people for being overweight. I think Micheline’s really missing the point, which is that it’s not our job to tell other people that what they’re doing is unhealthy unless, like secondhand smoke, it’s endangering our own health. I’ve struggled with weight issues–in varying degrees–much of my life and I know it’s not fun to be ridiculed for it. But can we leave this as an issue of humanity and civility, where it stands up just fine, rather than try to deny the science?

  150. 150.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @shortstop:
    Comparing the effects of smoking to someone carrying a little more adipose tissue than is perceived as “normal” is idiotic. Smoking is incredibly toxic, being overweight is not. There can be associated health issues, just as there are from being underweight. That doesn’t mean that every single overweight person is inherently an unhealthy mess who has never eaten a vegetable that wasn’t fried or walked more than 20 feet in their entire lives.

  151. 151.

    Valdivia

    @Snetzky:

    I guess I just don’t think generalizations either way are good. I think you can find perfectly non neurotic women on either side of the scale v

  152. 152.

    shortstop

    @Hypatia’s Momma: I think pretty much everyone else here probably got that the comparison was a loose one, although the type of denial is not. You are as concertedly avoiding the point as you were the other night when you earnestly insisted that we had “no way of knowing” whether every single member of the huge crowd cheering the Sandusky verdict had personally been molested, so no one can criticize their reaction. Right. Every one of those many hundreds could have been. No way to prove that they weren’t, so shut up.

    I absolutely did not say that “every single overweight person is inherently an unhealthy mess who has never eaten a vegetable that wasn’t fried or walked more than 20 feet in their entire lives,” so ditch the drama. I said that the connection between being overweight and having negative health outcomes is solidly established, and so it is. Again, I will note that overweight people do sometimes escape these negative health outcomes. But their risks for them are indisputably much higher, and many of the problems will not show up until late in life.

    I happen to eat steamed and raw vegetables in quantity and with enthusiasm, always have, and I’m a devoted walker and hiker. I’m still not in denial about the effect my extra weight is likely (not guaranteed) to have on my heart, joints, blood sugar, etc., etc. if I don’t get it off. I can spend my energy closing my eyes to the science or I can use it to go running.

    None of this means I think it’s okay to criticize people for being overweight. Ain’t my job, ain’t my business and ain’t the person I want to be. Calling you out for going beyond advocating plain kindness to engaging in rank denial about health science? Yeah, I will.

  153. 153.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @shortstop:

    Calling you out for going beyond advocating kindness to engaging in rank denial about health science?

    You haven’t posted any health science for me to deny. I earned A’s in physio and bio-chem, so I’d be happy to review any peer-reviewed articles you link that compare the health issues of people from differing ethnic backgrounds, their presumed status as “overweight”, “obese”, “normal”, and “underweigt” and their routine diet/exercise.

  154. 154.

    Jewish Steel

    @shortstop:

    Take yer calm, dispassionate recitation of facts elsewhere. Logic and science have no place in a food fight.

  156. 156.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Jewish Steel:
    Shortstop hasn’t posted any such things. There’s been a claim that I’ve denied health science (which I haven’t) along with a continued inability to understand what the sentence “Just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy”.

  157. 157.

    Ash Can

    I’m surprised this is even being debated here. Yes, there are health risks associated with excess weight, just as there are health risks associated with smoking and excess drinking. Also, the earth’s climate is changing, and human activity is involved. To deny any of this is to ignore a boatload of scientific evidence. Is it OK, on the other hand, to carp on strangers for being overweight, or pronounce them “disgusting?” Fucking hell no. If you’re a friend or relative, maybe you’re in a position to encourage them to lose weight for their own sake, and you’re definitely in a position to support them if they try. If you’re a stranger, you’re in a position to applaud people such as Michelle Obama for promoting healthy choices, and you’re in a position to vote for politicians whose policies promote good health and healthy lifestyles in general. That’s it. In short, it makes no fucking difference how offended your sensibilities are by the sight of overweight people;it still doesn’t allow you to rag on them. Likewise, it makes no fucking difference how badly you want to ignore the science; carrying excess weight invites health problems. Period.

  158. 158.

    Nethead Jay

    @shortstop: I don’t know where you saw Hypatia’s Momma being in “rank denial” or anything else deserving of calling out from you. On the contrary, she made some good points against Micheline’s “coddling” comments. Also, your anecdata has the same value as that from both of them.

  159. 159.

    Jewish Steel

    @Hypatia’s Momma: Hey, since you got straight As in science class maybe you should provide proof to back up your claims, professor. You obviously have a deep grasp of the subject.

    @Valdivia: Great minds, my friend.

  160. 160.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Jewish Steel:
    Where did I say I earned straight A’s in all my science classes? Nor did I claim I had a deep grasp of the subject, I said, “Just because someone is overweight does not mean they are unhealthy”. Perhaps you can explain why you believe you can look at someone who is overweight and know, for absolute fact, that they have a host of horrifying health issues?

  161. 161.

    Jewish Steel

    @Hypatia’s Momma:

    I earned A’s in physio and bio-chem

    I can look at your comment and see you a horrifying memory problem.

    I’m Jewish Steel, by the way, in case you’ve forgotten since you started reading this.

  162. 162.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Jewish Steel:
    That’s two courses out of more than a dozen, which is not the same as “straight A’s in science classes”. (I got B’s in p-chem, so you can hold that over me, I guess.)

  163. 163.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Jewish Steel:
    I’m also still very interested in knowing why you think that one can judge another’s overall health merely by how they look.

  165. 165.

    Nethead Jay

    @Jewish Steel: What the fuck do you mean with that comment? She is not making any claims other than stop generalizing. Also, shortstop isn’t being calm and dispassionate. Deeply disappointing comment coming from you.

  166. 166.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Jewish Steel: Wow. The irony. HM never said she got straight A’s in all her science classes, and you quote her NOT saying that she got straight A’s in all her science classes, then you mock her for forgetting that she said she got straight A’s in all her science classes after you’ve personally gone out of your way to present proof that she didn’t actually say it?

    Go take a nap, I think you’re too tired to be on the internet right now.

    @thread: Why do people think they deserve a cookie for pointing out that being overweight tends to cause health problems? Do you idiots honestly think that there’s anybody out there who doesn’t know that? Does this really need to be brought up every fucking time the existence of fat people comes up? How condescending can you get? For fuck’s sake, do you also go to smoking areas to tell people that smoking can cause cancer? If you do, just for the record: you’re an asshole and you’ve helped nobody.

  168. 168.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Jewish Steel: Yes, how weirdly literal minded do you have to be to think that “I got A’s in 2 classes” doesn’t mean the same as “I got A’s in all classes.” Only some super-literal robot mind could possibly distinguish those two statements.

  169. 169.

    suzanne

    Jesus fuck. I guess I have to go get my college transcripts so maybe someone will take me seriously.

    THIS ISN’T A POST ABOUT HEALTH. This is a post about the relative sexual attractiveness of fat people, especially women, in the public sphere.

    Maybe the reason lots of fat people feel marginalized by society is that we can’t have a fucking discussion about that, and instead we once again have to fucking talk about how their bodies are unhealthy and how if they would just work out and eat kale all day they’d be healthier and BUT BUT BUT SCIENCE!

    Missing the fucking point.

  172. 172.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Jewish Steel: Please, explain to me which context it is that conflates the meanings of “all” and “two”.

    I mean, only a weirdo could ever tell the difference, amirite?

  173. 173.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: And BTW, since you’re so keen on context, what do you think of the fact that a thread which was meant to be about society’s attitudes toward fat people turned into a thread about how fat people are disgusting, lazy, unhealthy blobs? Any interesting context there?

  174. 174.

    scav

    Actually, I think it was originally just some snarky mudflaps and boilerplate mocking of Herr Burkean Modesty not knowing flyover modesty if it deigned to clean his windshield after he filled his tank with 5$ of leaded.

  175. 175.

    Jewish Steel

    @Nethead Jay:

    stop generalizing

    That’s some deep shit right there. Maybe you guys ought to team up and do a Ted talk or something.

  176. 176.

    GxB

    @Valdivia: You’re on point in that this is dangerously close to wimminz hatin territory, so I’m trying to tread lightly. I’m not sure what Mistermix intended in the OP, nor do I get the point of the sticker in question, but since I’ve already stepped in it I guess I best own up to it. Keep in mind a favorite saw of mine is “All generalizations are false, including this one.”

    In my book human fallables, of either gender, run the spectrum but tend to cluster in the extremes. Nothing profound here I know but I’m not just talking about physical characteristics. Unfortunately we are a superficial species, visually focused, and one sex can (if not is berated to) use cosmetics daily to aid in their attractiveness. The side effect is men tend to be shallow, and women’s entire sense of worth can hinge on physical appearance alone.

    While I’d love to go on at length about the correlation between being a crew-cut shaven, musclebound oaf and a hyper-competitive, win-at-all-cost dickhead, I don’t think we’ll see a shriveled raisin set of trucknutz front paged anytime soon. But given a chance I’ll lay into the worst the male of the species has to offer with great delight…

    Course, that’d be just any post on the current GOP…

  177. 177.

    Q.Q. Moar

    I didn’t see much fat shaming up in here but I wasn’t looking for it despite not being an underwear model. At any rate, I think our lovely silver lady up there is a positive thing (aside from any issues of sexism). Real women have curves and all that.

  178. 178.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Jewish Steel: You respond to that but you won’t explain to me how only a weirdly literal person could distinguish between “all” and “two”? Gosh, someone might get the sense that you’re just completely full of shit. Maybe I’m missing some of that magical context.

  181. 181.

    Hypatia's Momma

    @Q.Q. Moar:

    Real women have curves and all that.

    I do sympathise with this viewpoint but I’ve seen it lead people into acting as if slender women aren’t “real women” and that’s a hell of a trap.

  182. 182.

    Q.Q. Moar

    @RossInDetroit: “why do we accept that ‘sexiness’, whether physical or personality, should be a significant part of our self worth”

    Forced to hazard a guess, I’d say it’s because sexual reproduction is a primary biological imperative. It probably goes waaay beneath rational motives.

  185. 185.

    Q.Q. Moar

    @Hypatia’s Momma:”I’ve seen it lead people into acting as if slender women aren’t “real women” and that’s a hell of a trap.” I haven’t run into that but it would be just as stupid as saying ‘no fat chix.’ Black and white extremes are for children and fanatics. Women (people) come in a variety of shapes and sizes, most of which I find alluring. Call it a weakness.

  187. 187.

    Valdivia

    @GxB:

    I have to confess that I had no clue what to say and what the idea was, which is why I said that right off the bat when I saw this post.

    I think physical attractiveness is a very touchy subject be it for men and women and as they say–different strokes different folks no?

    I think in a thread where people felt it important to defend the right of those with weight issues not to be berated for it (and rightly so), it was equally important not to fall into thin women=harpies caricature.

    There is so much that goes into our ideas (personal and societal) of beauty and sexyness (hey I tend to think even buildings are sexy but that is just me!) that having that discussion in ways that don’t offend and make people feel attacked is like walking through land mines.

    Same thing talking about health issues.

    I don’t know many women who don’t struggle with it all–their self worth in terms of beauty, self worth in terms of weight, and trying to balance all of these as connected to our health. I think because of that, when the topic comes up, we all go from our gut about how we cope with this and this kind of thread develops with people arguing for the same side talking past each other.

    But threads getting all confused on the internet–what is new no?

    I should add: I know a lot of obese men who are galtian fucks just to show the caricatures we make on both sides are stupid.

  188. 188.

    shortstop

    @Ash Can: Perfect in every particular. Knocks down the abundant strawmen and jumping goalposts that litter this thread.

  189. 189.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    @Jewish Steel: In other words, you don’t actually have any good reason to think that “all” and “two” are in any way equivalent, but are too prideful to admit that you wrote something ridiculously stupid when you said they were.

    The guy who thinks that only hyper-literal weirdos can tell the difference between all and two thinks I have a problem with “not getting stuff”. I suppose only a literal weirdo like myself would also notice that you put quotes around “not getting stuff” even though that phrase was never used once in this thread until you quoted somebody writing it. I guess only a hyper-literal computer-brain like myself understands that quotes are supposed to used when directly quoting someone, and that putting quotes around something that wasn’t actually said is, you know, lying.

    But hey, keep hollering about context. Maybe people won’t notice that you’ve been showing your ass to the entire thread.

  191. 191.

    dead existentialist

    I’m impressed that some of you can type what with all the finger wagging going on.

  192. 192.

    Micheline

    I am not saying you should go to every fat person and berate them but let’s not pretend that it is okay to be fat.

  195. 195.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Snetzky: Being obese is often a sign of an underlying physical or mental health issue.

    This, oh so much this. I’m convinced obesity is a symptom, not a cause of most of the health issues that are blamed on it.

    I heard about this study a couple of days ago. Maybe obesity isn’t actually the cause of inflammation and insulin resistance after all.

  196. 196.

    YellowJournalism

    @gogol’s wife: I lost over 60 pounds last year, and you should hear some o the comments I get! What’s crazy is ht the ones that hurt the most usually come from people who mean well. I’ve had “now there’s only one of you in there,”

  198. 198.

    Some Loser

    @Micheline:
    You can try not being such an asshole. You’re as truthful as Newt “I will tell black people to demand paychecks instead of food stamps.” Gingrich.

  199. 199.

    Patricia Kayden

    Since I know that there are plenty of men who like bigger women, I was looking at the mudflap in the post as a compliment.

  200. 200.

    Cassidy

    @Micheline: Actually, you’re incredibly wrong. Fat itself is not a marker for poor health. More often than not, unfortunately, the health issues of bigger people are overlooked because of the fat. The health care professionals just assume “Your fat. Lose weight. You’ll feel better.”. So, to be dismissive of someone who has fat as unhealthy is simply wrong. check out some HW fighters and tell me they aren’t healthy.

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