Police in Grand Rapids, Michigan say that there was nothing they could do after Bible-preaching protesters threatened to rape and murder pro-LGBT activists at a “Gay Day” event over the weekend.
In a video posted to YouTube, several protesters with Bibles can be seen shouting at a woman celebrating in the inaugural “Gay Day” celebration, an event organized by the human rights group Tolerance, Equality and Awareness Movement (TEAM) to showcase the community’s diversity.
All real Christians know that God Hates Fags. Someone explain to me again how it is unfair to call these people the American Taliban?
different-church-lady
Did anyone even explain it to you the first time?
Martin
Because both sides do it.
Spike
Ooooh, ooooh! I know! Ask me!
It’s unfair to the Taliban.
mechwarrior online
Comparing people to the Taliban goes over as well as comparing people to Nazis. It’s fairly extreme and hyperbolic and it’s so far out there it gets nothing more than eye rolls from many people. Frankly any sort of “Taliban” or “Nazi” comments just strike me as impotent rage and people going off the deepend because it’s cathartic for them.
muddy
Their rule of fairness = not saying things they don’t want to hear. Was there a Commandment about lying? It’s been so long I’ve forgotten.
The offering to rape people is fine though, they are just following the example of Lot. It’s in the Bible, c’mon.
Scott S.
“Nothing they could do”?
Golly gee whiz, cain’t nobody show these pore innocent cop-lambs a law book so they can review some of their options?
trollhattan
@mechwarrior online:
Concern duly noted. I doubt the Taliban have ever made trains run on time, while Republicans would prefer to eliminate trains altogether in favor of Moar Roads, so there’s that.
Ronzoni Rigatoni
Geeze! Alan Grayson said this about his opponent last election, and, yes, he was pilloried for it and the American Taliban won. Woo-whee! Alan’s running again and I send him money monthly. If he’s a nut-case, as many in the MSM claimed, he’s at least MY nutcase. He’s not, BTW. Send even more money. We might just win this one.
Mart
Threatening to rape and murder is not assualt because they are gay and deserved it? Is there another reason?
David Hunt
Because accurate descriptions of right-wing extremist make them look bad, and we can’t have that…
ETA: @Spike: got there first and better.
Maude
@mechwarrior online:
Killing gay people, which does happen when there is enough hatred that gives permission to do so, is extreme.
The Taliban do cause death and harm to those who do not follow their religious laws. Acid in the face is an example.
The term Taliban to identify the Christian extremists is accurate. Tim McVeigh is a good example.
Turgidson
Same reason as usual. Some anonymous atheist in the dkos comments said something mean about Jerry Falwell once, so shut up.
redshirt
God works in mysterious ways, dog.
Cassidy
@mechwarrior online: Actually, you’re wrong, but I’ll be happy to explain how you could be right. You see, the Taliban at least had the balls to fight for their beliefs, abhorrent as they are. Out American Psychos have nowhere near the backbone to slug it out.
Punchy
Amended for reality.
cathyx
That damned bible causes more trouble.
Darkrose
For the first time in my life, I’m actually thinking that having a gun might not be a bad idea.
ShadeTail
@mechwarrior online:
Oh, bullshit. Threatening to rape and murder people is hyperbolic, and yet that’s exactly what this bible-toting shithead did. If anyone has trouble with us bringing up a comparable set of religious shitheads, too bad for them.
“Doesn’t go over well.” So fucking what?
FormerSwingVoter
Um… I’m pretty sure threatening to kill someone is a very serious crime. The cops up there may want to brush up on this “law” thing.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@mechwarrior online:
Tough shit.
Someone doesn’t want to be compared to the Taliban? Then they should stop acting like them.
Someone doesn’t want to be called a Nazi? Then they should stop echoing their ideology, iconography and tactics.
If it hurts the feefees of a right-winger, then it’s probably true.
asiangrrlMN
@Darkrose: That was my immediate thought as well, and I am really not happy about it. But, I am even less happy that apparently, threatening to rape a lesbian is not something the cops in Grand Rapids, Michigan think they can do anything about.
Zifnab
The NYPD knows a bunch of cute tricks that they employ on Occupy marchers. Perhaps Grand Rapids police just need a few lessons.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Mart:
__
I think this falls under the category of WWJR (Who would Jesus rape?)
MikeJ
The word “taliban” means “students”[1]. American christians are anti-intellectual. Which makes them similar to their central Asian counterparts that do use that name, but it’s the best explanation I can come up with.
[1] an early version of this comment used the singular “student”, which is actually “talib.” Taliban is the plural. I regret that my Pashto isn’t what it could be.
Zam
These proper God-fearing individuals are the real victims. Being forced to live in a society where something they think is icky is without a doubt the greatest threat to religious liberty since Stalin. Every time you criticize them it is an infringement on their first amendment rights. It’s not about their personal rights to practice their faith, they can only truly be good Christians if they make sure everything that they find disgusting or wrong is wiped entirely from society, its the same thing with this absurd birth control freak out.
Janks
They do not follow the true Christ. Lord Jesus says that there will be many who call on Him but do not have Him in their hearts. He said there would be many who say Jesus is the Christ. They will say Lord have we not done these things in your name. And He will answer depart from me I never knew you. So yes it’s ok to call them out because they work for the other jesus; the anti christ.
Brachiator
Who says it’s unfair?
I’m betting (hoping) that most of the comments on the YouTube are not supporting these goons.
Also, too, someone should let these goobers know that the prime sponsor and instigator of the version of the Bible that they so love to thump, King James VI and I of England, was almost certainly of the tribe of Ghey.
Culture of Truth
Hey let’s not go over the top – it’s not as if Americans are going around shooting people because of their religion or crazy nazi shit like that.
Eric U.
the difference between our talibangelicals and the taliban is that the taliban took over power. I’m sure it would be pretty ugly if the American Taliban had control of the country. So far, the republicans in power have never been part of the group, they just used them for votes. This seems to be changing over time as republican politicians don’t realize that the whole social conservative thing is just a joke that they are playing on the great unwashed. It’s more than a little scary.
campionrules
According to the article the people yelling those threats were part of a Christian Black Supremacist group.
Apparently they expect Jesus to come back and kill off the whites and non christians.
Charming indeed.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
I thought verbally threatening someone with bodily harm was assault. That was a crime last I checked, and police in fact make arrests on that charge frequently. Sucks that this happened in my hometown. There are dumbasses everywhere.
The Red Pen
My recently-turned-fundie cousin posted some “Biblical” anti-gay stuff to her FaceBook page and I took her to task (after being pretty soundly rebuked, she deleted the post).
She called the pro-rights position that of the “deceivers”. I replied that the real deceivers were cloaking themselves in the name of Jesus in order to promote hating gays.
She responded, “Nobody is talking about hating gays…”
I set her straight (no pun intended) on that. Shit, she has a MS in Geochemistry. She knows better.
MikeJ
Speaking of religion, there’s a football game about to start. Gold medal round.
Brachiator
@campionrules:
So many nuts in the cake of bigotry.
Sal
@FormerSwingVoter:
Yes, pretty sure if protesters in Grand Rapids threatened to rape & murder, oh, let’s say, cops, the police would suddenly recall the law about threats and assaults.
Maybe this should be classified as hateful and offensive speech, not a crime. But people get arrested for threatening violence all the time. The target of the threats is not the determining factor.
Cassidy
@MikeJ: Don’t you dare ruin it. I can’t watch it until prime time tonight.
shortstop
Someone explain to me why the Grand Rapids police are unfamiliar with the definition of simple assault.
David Hunt
@Sal:
Cops are a special class, both in the minds of cops and, I think, the law. I think that assault on a public servant is a more severe crime than “simple” assault in a load of jurisdictions.
JGabriel
__
__
Raw Story via John Cole @ Top:
That would be the police lying. I’m pretty sure MI, like most states, has laws against murder threats and terroristic threats (which the rape threats would fall under).
.
Shinobi
My Ex Catholic friends and I are geeking out over this conference the Nuns are having. Apparently they are going to vote about a possible break from the church! We signed petitions and stuff.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/09/13198880-were-with-you-sisters-nuns-amazed-by-outpouring-of-support
(The issue being the church wants them to focus more on being anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage, and the Nuns want to focus more on things like helping the poor and disenfranchised. Those bitches.)
dance around in your bones
You know what? FUCK these fucking fuckers.
I just HOPE that Jebus comes back and opens up a can of whoop-ass on their miserable, puny, shriveled gay-hating selves.
I mean, if he ever really existed. Which I hope he did, just so he can open up that can of whoop-ass. muthafuckas.
ETA: What MikeJ said, too. These people are too stoopid to be ‘students’.
FlipYrWhig
How does the blogosphere’s highest-profile free speech absolutist and civil libertarian feel about it? Hs he issued his encyclical yet?
Both Sides Do It
“Someone explain to me again how it is unfair to call these people the American Taliban?”
The Taliban run complex military operations against an enemy that has much more sophisticated weapons, tactics and equipment. Comparing them to a bunch of whining suburbanites who scream insults at the downtrodden and cry hot tears whenever anyone doesn’t show them deference seems pretty unfair.
Just Some Fuckhead
Because killing them with drones would be the next logical step and right now they are the only ones that know how to fly the drones.
shortstop
@JGabriel: MI law does in fact consider simple assault (including intentionally threatening bodily harm) a misdemeanor, punishable by up to 93 days in jail and $500 in fines.
Martin
@Darkrose: The NRA is winning. That’s exactly the reaction they want.
Martin
@Shinobi:
Yes, because when most Americans think of radical feminists, Catholic nuns are precisely what springs to mind.
Face
Serious question — in Florida, would this be considered sufficient “danger” for her to cap one of them under their self-defense laws? Or does that not apply b/c she’s presumably gay?
shortstop
Oh, no! This thread has brought up the “See anyone’s criminal record!” ad. I can’t stand to see these people drunkenly sobbing in their mug shots.
MikeJ
urngu gb zbetna gb yyblq!
mechwarrior online
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
You act like I care, I don’t. You’re free to call anybody anything you want.
I just find comparisons to Nazis, communists, Taliban, terrorists, whatever to be nuts and crazy. It’s comparing things to the most extreme possible thing you can, and it’s almost always an attempt to dehumanize other people. It also makes the person lobbing the accusation look like a lunatic as well.
I mean, sure I get that saying that sort of crap is cathartic, but it also makes people look nuts.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I don’t think Mammon was ever considered a religion of peace.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@mechwarrior online: Comparing people that express their desire to rape and murder homosexuals in the name of religion, to the Taliban, an organization that expresses their desire to murder (if not rape) homosexuals in the name of religion is about as unfair as comparing people that want to murder jews and sport swastikas to Nazis (an organization that wanted to murder jews and sported swastikas), right?
That is what you are getting at? I’m just trying to make sure I’m clear on your position.
trollhattan
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
That’s how I learned it: “I’m going to punch your face”= assault. Punching face=battery.
Perhaps the Taliban changed the rulz?
shortstop
@Martin: Some of them are quite staunchly feminist. The BVMs (Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary), for example, are constantly getting in trouble for the messages of dignity, self-worth and independence they impart in girls’ classrooms. Of course, only the Vatican would call that shit “radical,” and since BVM communities are very often associated with Jesuit communities, they fly under the radar more than they might.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@mechwarrior online: ” it’s almost always an attempt to dehumanize other people ”
so when this group seeks to dehumanize teh gays, and expresses a desire to commit violence against them, that’s totally okay though. Just as long as you don’t draw comparisons between two groups of religious extremists – because that’s like, totally beyond the pale.
I see.
Chris
@Cassidy:
This. Most of our megachurch assholes live vicariously through African Christians by funding abominations like the Uganda kill-the-gays-bill, or people like Charles Taylor and Mobutu Sese Seko.
The religious right – not just the fringe guys bombing abortion clinics, but “mainstream” preachers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson – kill people just as dead as the Taliban and try to kill even more. But because their nice white suburban middle-class congregations aren’t actually strapping on bomb-vests and doing the killing themselves, they delude themselves that somehow there’s a difference between them.
Roger Moore
Because they’ll rape and kill you if you suggest that.
Raven
@mechwarrior online: I think you need to move on dawg,
ShadeTail
@mechwarrior online:
Yes you do, otherwise you wouldn’t have been moved to whine about it. And you’re completely full of shit. Comparing religious lunatics who threaten rape and murder to religious lunatics who threaten rape and murder isn’t nuts, no matter how often you claim it is.
dance around in your bones
@MikeJ: Translate, plz?
lonesomerobot
@mechwarrior online: Actually it’s comparing the most extreme possible version of fundamentalist Christianity to the most extreme possible version of fundamentalist Islam. The difference for you is that you live in a country where Christianity, even of the most radical sort, gets a free pass just about every time an atrocity is committed in its name. You’re just being an apologist for radical Christians.
Jay in Oregon
@campionrules:
Replace “Christian” with “Muslim” and those assholes wouldn’t have made it out of the park alive. Hell, they probably wouldn’t have made it into the park in one piece.
The Grand Rapids police are full of shit: if I walked up to a woman on the street, recited her license plate number, and threatened to rape and/or kill her, my ass would be in jail so fast it wouldn’t be funny.
celticdragonchick
@Darkrose:
I have several. Folks here are beginning to see why. I live in NC, and the volume got turned up real high this last spring. When you see videos of RWNJ’s shooting No On Prop One signs…you understand that some of them really do want to kill you and will use any pretext to do it.
shortstop
@trollhattan: There are different definitions and levels of assault depending on the state — simple, aggravated, felonious, assault with intent to murder, etc. Simple assault is almost always associated with the threat of bodily violence.
MikeJ
@Chris: Falwell isn’t as mainstream as he used to be, what with being dead five years and all.
terraformer
@Darkrose:
Indeed, if at least from a “protect me from Your followers” kind of way.
mechwarrior online
@ShadeTail:
I’m not whining about it at all, I just find it pathetic. Kinda how I find the people at the Subway with Obama = Hitler posters pathetic. It’s over blown, I don’t care, if you want to make a hysterical jackass out of yourself do it, I’ll continue to laugh at you.
celticdragonchick
@mechwarrior online:
We need a better quality of troll.
Both Sides Do It
@Shinobi:
Those nuns are awesome
Here’s the change.org petition referenced in that news report. If anyone has any other ways to support this stuff let us know.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@celticdragonchick: being trans, this is nothing new to me. Actual threat of death is a pretty regular occurrence. Seen our murder wall? It’s swell!
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@celticdragonchick: What do you expect? This one spends it’s off hours wallowing in Jim Hoft’s fever swamp.
If you don’t know who Jim Hoft is just google [ Dumbest man on the internet ]
lonesomerobot
@mechwarrior online: What a rhetorical flourish there! See because Obama≠Hitler, that means radical fundamentalist Christians≠radical fundamentalist Muslims.
What a whiner.
mechwarrior online
@lonesomerobot:
Except you know, the Taliban actually controlled Afghanistan, waged internal war on a large scale, controlled a drug trade, and rose up against the people that were in charge…
… which has totally not happened in the US.
It’s a false equivilance and taking the most extreme possible example you can find and trying to plaster it over a less extreme version and pass it off as a reasonable comparison, it’s not at all unless you’re a crazy person.
I mean whatever, if it makes you feel good shout it to the sky and rock on! It doesn’t make the comparison or the person saying it any less idiotic.
Chris
@Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God:
They should also stop using interrogation measures for which we condemned various Nazis as war criminals at Nuremberg.
celticdragonchick
@The Red Pen:
Wow. I know of quite a few GLBT people in geology. I wonder how many of her co-workers she is pissing off.
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
The Taliban has branches of students and adherents who, despite fundamentalist beliefs, are willing to reach compromises with their opponents. So it’s really not fair to the Taliban, who don’t deserve to be associated with our American cults.
Really, if Christianists are going to make terroristic threats, then the proper label is Christian Qaeda.
.
Roger Moore
@dance around in your bones:
You just need to Rot13 it.
NancyDarling
@The Red Pen: I have never understood how a person with that much education-especially in the sciences-can become a fundamentalist and accept the literal inerrancy of the bible. I can’t imagine the mental loops one has to jump through.
celticdragonchick
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
I didn’t know you were trans also. Always nice to meet a sister or brother here.
Unfortunately, I do know who Jim “Dim” Hoft is. Charles at LGF mocks him daily.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@mechwarrior online: Considering how many of these people do actually hold outsized positions of power and influence in this country, they are not an insignificant part of the “ruling class”
And considering how often my non-cisgendered brothers and sisters have been beaten, raped, murdered, and driven to suicide on a regular basis by these assholes (stressing ON A REGULAR BASIS), your dismissal of the comparison falls flat.
Ben Cisco
@mechwarrior online: Are you gunning for a gold medal in douchery today?
Don’t bother answering that.
Chris
@mechwarrior online:
Interesting. So your objection is… basically, that comparing the Nazis circa 1925 to the Nazis circa 1935 is unfair to the former, because they haven’t had the opportunity to become the latter yet. I see.
dance around in your bones
@Roger Moore:
Thanks, but that just told me ‘heath to morgan to lloyd’ …..which to me is like, WTF?over.
Does that have to do with that ‘sport’ that Romney opines about?
Trinity
Ugh…a black Westboro.
Disgusting.
mechwarrior online
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
The US is not Afghanistan and while the fundamental Christians here are pretty bad it’s not even close the same scale or actions that are being committed in Afghanistan by the Taliban, hell it’s not even close to the sort of violence that’s been inflicted on people in Africa by you know, actual Christians.
But hell, if you want to cheapen the violence in Afghanistan committed by the actual Taliban or the violence in Africa committed by actual Christians and claim “this is exactly like America” go ahead, it’s crazy and shows just how much you give a damn about the victims there (hint, not at all outside of using it for your own personal “woe is me” parade), whatever gets your rocks off.
I mean shit, I get it, it’s fun and watch the reaction. But throwing slurpee’s at people is fun, and just as stupid.
Good to know that Bachmann et all are stoning people alive, running an opium trade, and have taken over the government with armed force… because if they haven’t it’s a false equiv of the highest order.
Chris
@NancyDarling:
http://www.cracked.com/article/85_6-bullshit-facts-about-psychology-that-everyone-believes/
Scroll down to #4, about cult members, and it actually makes a few interesting points.
Publius39
@mechwarrior online:
Nonsense. Christian evangelicals want to create a theocracy in America based on biblical law, just as the Taliban want to create a theocracy based on Islamic law. To further that goal, both groups will use violence to advance their goal of creating a society that abides by their religious tenets, as has been shown time and time again in the media, both domestically and internationally. I believe that analogy is actually a very accurate and appropriate one.
Culture of Truth
@mechwarrior online: and how would you describe these people?
lonesomerobot
@mechwarrior online: The amount of foolishness and outright cluelessness of this comment is amazing.
I can’t drive a mile in this country without seeing the Christian god’s new awesome logo. Every December I have to endure a faux “war on Christmas” rather than some people just accept the words “happy holidays”. The Christian god’s name is on our money, in our pledge, proselytized in our military, exclaimed in myriad sporting events, and spread far and wide in brutal ways by American missionaries. People of other faiths have to endure legal challenges, threats and harassment, just so they can build their own place of worship. We have at least one Supreme Court Justice who is a Dominionist.
Christians don’t have to rise up against the people in charge of America, because they is them. You would really have to be blind not to see it.
David Hunt
@Face:
I’d guess that the presumed gayness of the woman and the (I assume) whiteness of the guy threatening her would mean that it was not a case of “Stand Your Ground” self-defense, but instead of case of first degree murder with special circumstances of being a hate crime and thus eligible for the death penalty.
I could be wrong about that, however. It might be the presumed Republican affiliation of the guy making the threat instead of his whiteness that made it a capital offense…
celticdragonchick
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
This.
The comparison is valid, since they seek to usurp or pervert our Constitutional form of government with a form of theocracy that we specifically sought to rid ourselves of. Under their rule, gays, lesbians and trans people like you and me would have to flee or face jail. The Texas GOP party is STILL calling for criminalization of homosexuality!
Islam would be outlawed. Atheism could be outlawed. Certain other non Christian sects would be subject to criminal persecution and scrutiny. The right to birth control and abortion would vanish, as well as the SCOTUS decision that established the right to privacy. All sex acts would be subject to legal review and possible prosecution.
It isn’t like they have made this a secret.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@celticdragonchick: we’ve discussed it before =). As for me, I don’t keep it very secret – I knew you were, but I didn’t come out and say it only because that’d be disrespectful – it’s your decision whether or not you want to disclose it, IMO
So yeah. I’m trans-femme – I look like a woman, I often don’t sound like one. Too angry for that on teh threads, mostly =)
I don’t like to call myself MTF because I don’t buy into gender binaries and I find that if I did, I’d be proliferating a societal construct that causes many people a great deal of pain (including my cisgendered spouse, who often feels tremendous pressure for not properly conforming to the role)
scav
The Police are clearly just being verwy verwy carwful about not abridging anyone’s Religious Rights!(tm) to Rape and Abuse people they disagree with as per their Holy Text. I mean, we can’t expect Pharmacists to dispense drugs they find distasteful or force Corporate Persons to provide health care that might possibly include options their LLChristos hasn’t written off on. I suppose we should be grateful that the Police are extending these Sacred Rights to mere meat people, no?
Roger Moore
@dance around in your bones:
Try putting that into Google.
Andrey
@mechwarrior online:
None of these are matters of belief. These are matters of power. So you’re saying the comparison to the Taliban makes you roll your eyes just because they haven’t entirely taken over the country yet?
You realize that there are, in fact, actual living Nazis right now, right? People who are actually members of a Nazi party? Do you think we shouldn’t call them Nazis because they haven’t personally started building tanks yet?
They have pretty explicitly said that they want to.
Publius39
@mechwarrior online:
This would be an accurate statement if you completely ignore all the acts of domestic terrorism, racism, sexism, the beatings/killing of GLBT members, lynchings, bombings, manifest destiny, etc. etc. etc.
Mattminus
In fairness to the Talibaptists, these guys are not their fellow travelers. I don’t think they benefited from some bubba sheriffs affinity for them. It’s more likely they just didn’t want any trouble or thought it would be fun to let the ni(clangs) and queers duke it out.
No bible thumping christian would consider these guys “one of us”.
The Black Israelites are their own kind of completely insane. I used to walk by them every day in Manhattan. Their theology is equal parts Nation Of Islam and Old Dirty Bastard. The ones I used to see at least had a lot more panache, dressing like the three kings from a very flamboyant nativity set.
The level of aggression seen from them in this video is par for the course. They were sort of like real life forum trolls.
Chris
@mechwarrior online:
… actual Christians funded with American money provided by the American pastors of American mega-churches, but who of course CANNOT be blamed for any of that activity that you consider equivalent to what the Taliban are doing… party of responsibility and all that, you know…
Continue the joke.
celticdragonchick
@Publius39:
The Religious Right here in the South has murdered thousands through lynchings, not to mentions church burnings and bombings that happened in living memory. It was never just racial. Religion, particularly some strains of Southern Baptist, had a lot to do with it.
mechwarrior online
@Culture of Truth:
Assholes, bigots, there are other good descriptors of them. The closest comparison I’d jump for is to compare them to earlier American Christian movements that spawned the Salem Witch burnings, McCarthy, or even those on the wrong side of the civil rights movement.
But a rebel movement that over threw a government by force, engaged in whole sale slaughter of their religious opponents, funded by drug money, cutting off lady parts, and stoning people alive they are not. That’s a huge, and absurd jump to make when you actually look at things.
Calling people Taliban is really just as doofy as calling people Nazis.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Andrey: “They have pretty explicitly said that they want to.”
Umm, aside from the opium trade, pretty much all of that applies – it’s more than an expressed desire. Ask a trans person. Hurry, before they’re murdered.
Publius39
@celticdragonchick: I know, that was my point. I live in Louisiana, I’m aware of the religion-infused bigotry.;-)
Publius39
@mechwarrior online: We understand and your concern is duly noted. Now you can put down your arms; you have won the war against the strawmen.
Culture of Truth
@mechwarrior online:
Isn’t that a little extreme? They haven’t called anyone before Congress, or ruined their livelihoods, or put them on trial and had them hanged, or bombed churches or murdered children.
The Moar You Know
BULLSHIT.
Threats of violence are a crime.
Pinkamena Panic
@mechwarrior online: If you just wish hard enough, I’m sure it’ll be true.
mechwarrior online
@Andrey:
People can call themselves whatever they want, that doesn’t make them so. In the words of the great sage Tylder Durden, sticking feathers up your ass does not make you a chicken.
You can be a fucked up religious fundamentalist and yet not be as fuck awful as the Taliban. Iran, for all it’s fundamental fuck muppetry (which is actually far worse than the Christianist right in this country) is not the Taliban, and calling them such would be completely insane.
I doubt most of us would feel calling Iran or even Saudi Arabia the Taliban would fly as a fair comparison to most posting here, because it’s obviously bullshit and insane. But of course, since Christiansts are our political opponents many people are willing to overlook that and lob the comparison with regards to our whack jobs because it makes them feel good… like they are fighting back, like the won a point. The sort of utterly impotent rhetoric that makes people feel good.
But hey, hate, vitrol, and brain dead comparisons are one hell of a drug…
celticdragonchick
@danah gaz (fka gaz):
:)
I have never been a fan of the gender continuum theory, but I have a number of good friends who are. I think the whole thing bemuses my spouse as well, although she is even more gender binary determinative then I am since she is a biology major. I prefer to stick with rocks. Granodiorite samples don’t argue with you. :)
celticdragonchick
@mechwarrior online:
In other words…Christian versions of the Taliban who enforced their religious views through terror and violence.
Do you understand that you basically just argued against yourself?
Andrey
@mechwarrior online: Okay, let’s go through your list one by one.
“Overthrew a government by force” – you are aware of the “militias” that are specifically planning for this scenario, right? Potential overthrow of the government is an explicit plank of gun-rights support.
“engaged in whole sale slaughter of their religious opponents” – and the Sikh massacre was what, exactly? Are you unaware of all the death threats to Muslims etc.?
“funded by drug money” – I don’t even know why this is relevant. Who cares what they’re funded by?
“cutting off lady parts” – You’re right, that specific form of abuse is not advocated much.
“stoning people alive” – no, they prefer to use clubs, fists and guns to beat or shoot the gays.
Once again: these things are actually happening. They are happening on a smaller scale than than in Afghanistan, for now, and they are certainly being threatened on a much larger scale than in Afghanistan.
Would it satisfy you if we call them the “attempted Taliban” or “threatened Taliban” instead?
lonesomerobot
@mechwarrior online:
You really are kidding yourself if you don’t think there are radical fundamentalist Christians in America who wouldn’t be pleased as punch to engage in exactly these types of behavior. I do believe Dr. Tiller was one example of a religious opponent that was slaughtered wholesale. Educate yourself and look up Dominionism some time, or William G. Boykin.
But you probably won’t, since ignorance appears to be your calling card.
mechwarrior online
@celticdragonchick:
False equivalence, you really need to read up on it.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@celticdragonchick: I’m not a fan of the gender continuum theory either.
As elle says “gender is an ocean”
People are not just too complex for binary categorization, but they are too complex for scales as well. It’s all an attempt to boil people down to a 2D graph. As always, it comes up short.
I’m a fan of analysis of results. What are the pros and the cons of gender categorization? On the Pro side, it limits the variety of restrooms to a manageable number. On the Con side it’s responsible for a large amount of socially induced pain (trans or not, gay or not, tomboy or not, etc).
Then again, maybe I’m just being difficult. It wouldn’t be the first time =)
scav
Practically speaking, the Police are pretty much expressing a tacit opinion and, probably more importantly, rooting for injuries. Somehow their behavior here and their seeming utter inability to conceive just what might have inspired and set off Wade Michael Page seems to rhyme.
Andrey
@mechwarrior online:
Whoa, hold on. You are seriously saying that someone who is a member of the Nazi Party is not a Nazi?
I think we’re done here.
lonesomerobot
@Andrey: Definitely done here. mechwarrior has a +9 asshat of douchebaggery, and we cannot penetrate it.
celticdragonchick
@mechwarrior online:
Uh…not so much. You are splitting hairs to deny what you just basically admitted. Christians who use force and fear to coerce social behaviors in others are no different in kind from Muslims who use force and fear to coerce social behaviors. The specific practices may differ…but the motivations are utterly alike and the comparison is valid. Go read “Screwtape proposes a Toast” and pay particular attention to the bit about vintage Pharisee.
Felanius Kootea
@dance around in your bones: People are trying not to reveal spoilers for those who can only watch the Olympics in prime time.
Chris
@mechwarrior online:
Considering that the Taliban are largely a creation of the Saudi obsession with exporting their own theology – again the same kind of relationship you see between American fundiegelicals and their disciples in Africa – and that most of the obscenities the Taliban committed have precedent in Saudi Arabia, it’s actually a perfectly decent comparison.
ETA: and once again, we are not comparing America with Afghanistan. We are comparing one subset of Afghans who turned their country into a living hell with one subset of Americans who yearn to turn their country into the same sort of living hell for the exact same reasons.
different-church-lady
I see you folks have this one pretty much under control. I’ll be having some coffee if you need me later.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@lonesomerobot: “a +9 asshat of douchebaggery”
lulz. thanks for bringing some much needed levity to the thread.
=)
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
In case it hasn’t been posted already, here’s a handy chart.
dance around in your bones
@Roger Moore: Yes, as I expected, it has to do with ‘sport’.
Martin
@shortstop: Well, yeah – I know that many are quite firmly ‘feminist’ but that’s quite mainstream. They’re only feminist when compared to the GOP agenda or to the rest of the Catholic church. Compared to what you’ll find in any random neighborhood in the US, they’re not really pushing boundaries in any significant sense. I mean, if your agenda matches the goals of the Girl Scouts, I’m not sure we need to apply ‘feminist’ as a label any longer. Isn’t that just normal and mainstream now?
Radical suggests that they’re looking to upend social norms. I’ve never heard of a nun suggest any such thing.
Chris
@lonesomerobot:
Not really related: you ever see the JAG episode that actually tried to put in a good word for him? I read the synopsis and couldn’t bring myself to. I usually like that show, but I have my limits…
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q): neat. Too bad most of them would probably have difficulty following a flow chart. =)
lonesomerobot
@danah gaz (fka gaz): glad to be of service
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Chris: I seem to remember that show being remarkably sexist. In it’s defense, so were a lot of the shows of the period.
lonesomerobot
@Chris: ONly saw part of one episode of that show, some girl was unconscious or asleep (not sure) and dreaming of her father calling her. She wakes up, and the voice calling her name belongs to none other than ultra-patriot and stand-up American Hero™ Oliver North.
I wretched in my mouth a little bit and instantly changed the channel, vowing to never watch that show again.
Chris
@lonesomerobot:
Yikes, never saw that one. Maybe I just haven’t seen enough episodes. Bleargh.
mpbruss
From the article:
“WWMT reported that the men were part of a Christian black supremacist group called the Black Hebrew Israelites. According to the South Poverty Law Center, the quickly spreading movement preaches ‘a frightening, racist theology that says Jesus Christ is returning soon to kill or enslave white people, Jews, homosexuals, and others.’”
Don’t get me wrong there’s plenty of things mainstream Christianity in America needs to work on, but to pretend that these guys in any way represent mainstream Christianity is absurd.
lonesomerobot
@Chris: Yes it’s frightening that in this country we have a portion of the population that lives in the alternate reality where Oliver North was a hero and Joseph McCarthy is a victim of some cruel leftist witchhunt.
And radical Christians can’t be compared to radical Muslims.
les
@mechwarrior online:
So your basic concern here is that the US Christian right shouldn’t be compared to the Taliban, because they’re not as good at it yet? My, what a principled young thing you are.
lonesomerobot
@mpbruss:
Just wondering if you think that’s a fair statement about the Taliban.
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@les: Either that or he’s pretending that violent assholes can’t exist outside of a failed state, like Afghanistan.
Absent a functioning police force, majority employment of the workforce, food security and all of the other stuff we routinely take for granted, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of these assholes would step up their game.
They are already ridiculously, and murderously violent to the more vulnerable and rarer subsets of our population.
kindness
@mechwarrior online:
See, the splinter in your ass is that you’ve not addressed the potential for the comparison (calling Teahadists the American Taliban) to be a valid comparison. I think when Markos first popularized the phrase, he had no idea how correct he was. Both groups (the Asian & the American Taliban) would control others no matter what those others think.
So go ahead and roll your eyes and show us all how above the fray you are. I for one don’t agree with you, nor your interpretation.
LanceThruster
@Scott S.:
But for actual peaceful protesters, it always seems there’s nothing they can’t do.
Funny how that works.
LanceThruster
@kindness:
And our American Taliban can’t even make the trains run on time, also, too.
Comrade Dread
I’m guessing their bible ends in Leviticus and doesn’t include much about Jesus at all.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@lonesomerobot: Um, speaking of icky images (in the sense of being horribly mixed metaphors, of course).
danah gaz (fka gaz)
@Comrade Dread: Funny that most of the Jews can manage it without being rabid, violent assholes.
dance around in your bones
@Felanius Kootea: Thanks – I don’t follow a lot of this ‘sport’ (I had a guy friend call me ignorant for that the other night, haha!) but I appreciate the explanation.
eta: I guess I should add that what I enjoy watching are sports like archery and fencing that one doesn’t ordinarily see, as opposed to soccer, basketball and boxing – which seem to be what’s always om when I tune into the Olympics.
YMMV. :)
dance around in your bones
@Chris: Oh bravo ! Chris.
You know, for such a young guy (as I have assumed from your comments) you have a remarkable grasp of reality.
This is NOT snark.
trollhattan
@mechwarrior online:
It would seem somebody has not paid attention to who has captured one of our two viable political parties. Step 1. Drive out the internal non-believers (RINOs). Status–complete. Step 2. Eliminate external impediments and threats. Status–in progress.
The Senate Minority Leader:
If these asshats ever got fully in charge we’d have a national religion, pronto.
Judas Escargot, Acerbic Prophet of the Mighty Potato God
@mechwarrior online:
You know what’s really nuts? Protecting the feefees of racists, fascists and their kin.
You might not have noticed, but there’s a culture war on.
And the other side’s decided to start shooting.
Comrade Dread
@danah gaz (fka gaz): Historically, the Jewish nation had their own problems with violent sects that led them to great sorrow with the Romans. Because of said violent idiots, they suffered war, siege, famine, death, the loss of their homeland and their Temple and were forcibly dispersed again by the Romans into a world that was suspicious and hostile of them.
They lived through the rather horrific consequences of having violent idiots hijack their religious and national life.
That will sort of temper such impulses in the future.
Chris
@dance around in your bones:
24: yes, I plead guilty to the youth charge. And thanks!
Darkrose
@Martin: Are you trans, gay or lesbian? If not, please don’t fucking patronize me.
dance around in your bones
@Chris: Youth does not always equal estupida.
I always love to read your comments.
As someone who traveled extensively in Afghanistan back in the day (when the Taliban were but a gleam in the eye of the ISI, and having seen what AFG could be and WAS back then) I appreciate a point of view different than ‘OMG what a backwater and medieval stupid place’.
It wasn’t. It had potential, and I think – still does. If the fundies can be defeated.
Paul W.
It isn’t, but you knew that didn’t you?
They aren’t even really Christians though, so I don’t take it personally.
Gex
@Mart: Way late, but the gist of the Constitutional Amendments is that equal protection and due process do not apply to gays. Whenever it does, we will expressly take it away.
It may very well be that the laws that make death threats illegal happen to be the kind that don’t apply to gays, like you suggested.
Gex
Just like with Trayvon, we might need the Feds to go in and show the local po-po how to apply the law when a minority group is involved in the issue.
TenguPhule
Good to know they have at last returned to their Dark Ages roots as raping murderous bastards.
Send in the Lions.