There’s a certain irony in hearing Sunday morning gas bags talk this way:
Conservative commentator Mary Matalin hailed Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” line on CNN as good news for Republicans.
“There are makers and takers, there are producers and there are parasites,” she said. “Americans can distinguish between those who have produced and paid in through no fault of their own and because of Obama’s horrible polcies who cannot get a job or are underemployed. That’s what the campaign is about.”
That’ll win over independents!
Meanwhile, smart Republican pols, like Susan Martinez and Scott Brown, are distancing themselves from Romney’s comments.
This didn’t have to become a big deal for Romney. He could have walked it back a bit, but he’s in George W. Bush double down mode. It’s a big mistake, and the tell is the defection of Republicans who need to get their asses re-elected.
Comrade Jake
It has been encouraging to see that the MA polls are trending Warren of late. I hope that jackass Brown rolls his friggin pickup.
arguingwithsignposts
What exactly does Mary Matalin “make”?
Political Observer
I’m gonna go with Halperin–
He gets it right. The elite media can crow all they want–the national and state polling is moving in ROMNEY’S direction.
And even senior Democrats admit it “isn’t over until Karl Rove sings”.
Spaghetti Lee
“Americans can distinguish between those who have produced and paid in…
…and those who get paid to spout bullshit on talk shows.”
DougJ
@Comrade Jake:
He’s a sharp politician though. I hope he loses but I have to tip my hat at how he stays competitive.
smith
@arguingwithsignposts:
“What exactly does Mary Matalin “make”?”
An ass of herself obviously.
Close your eyes and you think it’s Ayn Rand back from the dead.
Political Observer
And don’t forget, the Obama “redistribution” video is pretty explosive. The media will just revert into “both sides did it!” and that will be the end of that!
huckster
I honestly think that internal polling is sooo bad that he has no choice but to double down just to hold the base together. The base doesn’t care what billy Kristol, David Brooks, or Peggy Noonan thinks. But Rush loves it and therefore everyone will get in line. All he can do at this point is hope for some cataclysmic event or horrible gaffe on the President’s part that might get some independents to break his way.
Not much to hang yer hat on.
TooManyJens
@Political Observer:
::pats::
Of course you are, dear.
khead
@DougJ:
You serious, Clark?
Comrade Mary
@TooManyJens: You know what? PO is using way too many exclamation points. Anyone seen DougJ around?
jwb
I love it when trolls haul in Rassmussen and Halperin. Really! Really!!
Comrade Jake
@Political Observer:
You mean the video from 12 years ago? Yeah, it’s explosive alright. In the minds of wingnuts. Seriously, your trolling was better in the other thread when you were quoting Jennifer Rubin.
I’m just going to assume that your primary aim here is to be a minor annoyance. Bye now.
TooManyJens
@Comrade Mary: We just need to announce that WaPo is doing a live chat with Alexandra Petri, and he’ll come running.
beltane
@jwb: And the same Halperin tweet over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread. Is that all there is?
The Dangerman
Matalin should talk to Scott Brown.
redshirt
@arguingwithsignposts: “Content”.
I’m confused who the parasites are supposed to be in Ms. Matlin’s analogy above. The folks looking for work?
kilks
There’s comedy and then there’s Scott Brown trying to run away from the repubs. I just hope enough of the penis democrats get over themselves in time. Ed Rendell ain’t got nothing on these useless has been gasbags
Djur
@Political Observer: Yes, just like that explosive “spread the wealth around” video cost Obama the election.
Tell President McCain hi for me the next time you see him, OK?
Mike in NC
@Political Observer:
You’re gonna suck Halperin’s tiny dick? Enjoy, RC.
Yutsano
@beltane: When one is drowning, one reaches for the life preserver given.
And PO still gives zero positive reason to vote for Willard.
Helen
I was gonna say “jesus fucking christ” but I am an athiest so I will just repeat what I said a couple of threads ago. Sorry to those who have already read it.
The bizarre thing about Romney’s comment was that he thinks that the 47% that is with Obama is exactly the 47% who don’t pay federal income taxes. That can’t be a coincidence. We’ve all been talking about the fact that among the 47% is a large number of people who do not know they are in the 47%. I buy that. I know many of them. But what about the other side of the same coin? I am in the 47% who absolutely, positvely will vote for Obama. And I pay close to $50,000 a year in taxes. Which is 5 times what I get back in good and services from the government and close to 13 times what the average American FAMILY pays. And I am perfectly fine with that. Does he not know people like me exist?
TooManyJens
@redshirt:
Isn’t it a strange coincidence how every time there’s an economic downturn in this country, millions of people are transformed into shiftless bums? And then when the economy recovers, suddenly they decide to be productive citizens again. Damnedest thing, really.
Calming Influence
“There are makers and takers, there are producers and there are parasites.”
It’s an unfortunate turn of phrase, given that Mary Matalin looks so much like a termite larva.
g
Americans can distinguish between those who have produced and paid in through no fault of their own and because of Obama’s horrible policies who cannot get a job or are underemployed.
This makes no sense whatsoever. So is she saying that some of the 47% deserve to be moochers because they can’t get a job? Is she expressing sympathy for the unemployed now?
I guess for Matalin, unemployed Republican voters are more deserving than unemployed voters who don’t vote Republican?
TooManyJens
@Helen:
I don’t think he thinks that; I think he wants his base not to realize that a lot of them are part of the 47% that he’s shitting on. He wants them to think, basically, “Democrats want to help shiftless welfare queens,” not “Hey, Mitt Romney thinks I’m a parasite and probably doesn’t have my best interests at heart.”
The sloppiness of not distinguishing between the 47s is on purpose.
Djur
The “redistribute” thing is a non-story because everyone already knows it’s true and it’s factored into everyone’s votes. Regardless of the truth, swing voters already think that the platform of the Democratic party is to soak the rich for the benefit of the middle class and poor. (It should be!)
“Redistribution” is only a scary commie signifier to the kind of wingnuts who would never, ever in a million years vote for Barack Obama. The majority of Americans think that it’s good for the government to help the poor — they might think that the Democrats do it in an inefficient or excessive way, but the polling has always been very clear that Americans are in favor of aid to the poor.
g
@Political Observer: Oh, yes, a 1998 video is going to be a very powerful counter to the Mitt secret video…..not.
lamh35
Can’t stand Matalin.
If I was willing to give Carville any benefit of the doubt (which I’m not, can’t stand the bastard), his allegedly loving marriage to that hag Matalin ends all benefits from me.
I just don’t believe for one second that Carville and Matalin don’t agree about most of the stuff she spews and I just bet they probably pass along zingers to each other to use when they make their “analyst” money.
Steve
Pat Buchanan said tonight, “Obama is a drug dealer of welfare.”
beltane
@TooManyJens: The most obnoxious part of all this is that people who bust their ass 40+ hours a week still fall into the parasite category because they are underpaid. If Ms. Matalin were paid what she was worth she would have starved to death years ago.
Comrade Jake
No, the bizarre thing about Romney’s comment is that he actually seems to believe that the economy will magically turn itself around once he’s elected, and that he won’t actually have to do anything.
Waynski
@Helen: If you’re voting for Obama, you don’t exist.
Comrade Mary
Oh Lord, the Romney campaign is clustering all their fucks in a row now. From Buzzfeed:
I guess they really didn’t want to use Ann up.
(Her full interview with a local tv station is still at the BF page.)
TooManyJens
Romney Campaign Releases Video Titled “Mitt Doesn’t Disdain the Poor,” Then Deletes It
Did they delete it, or did God smite it?
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
I don’t know. As much as I hate to talk about things like “tone”, Willard came across as genuinely angry and resentful in that video, especially the part when he talked about how he earned every dime. I think comments like this, from someone who seems to grow more loathsome every year, make it harder for him to walk away (Carville, there’s something wrong with you, too) That comment about how he’s ready to take advantage of a foreign policy situation, when he telegraphed his nakedly demagogic and political reaction, that’s gonna hurt too, as it sinks in.
Wiesman
I really want to agree that this 47% thing is a big deal, but I’m not sure that it is at all. And I’m not saying that because of Halperin or Matalin or Rove or any other Fox News person. I’m saying that because Nate Silver isn’t sure. I might not be the smartest guy in the world, but I know how to recognize smart guys. (Ok, well, actually Dunning-Kruger would suggest that… I digress.)
Anyway, Silver isn’t sure if it is or is not a big deal. Polling will tell, as always.
Comrade Mary
Heh. CBC is repeating their news update on RomneyClusterFuckeren and yes, they’re still calling Mother Jones a “liberal” rather than a “left wing” magazine.
notoriousJRT
@arguingwithsignposts:
Mary Matalin makes me long to see she and Peggy Noonan pulling a “Thelma and Louise” off of a suitably high place. Come on, Jib Jab, make it happen.
arguingwithsignposts
@Wiesman: Silver is good with numbers. His political sense doesn’t seem so finely tuned.
And your concern is noted.
nitpicker
Holy shit! The stuff coming out on this single tape just gets worse and worse. Here he is talking about the 1980 election.
So if it seemed to you that when Romney got his chance to “take advantage” of dead Americans he jumped at it as if he’d planned it all along, there’s a reason for that. He had.
Djur
@Wiesman: Well, Nate Silver always says that. Mitt Romney could fuck a baby to death on live television and Nate would be waiting for the polling before he made a pronouncement.
Not a criticism — poll-watching is his job. Just the truth.
Comrade Jake
@Wiesman: I think Nate’s right when he says we’ll need to wait a week to see how this all shakes out.
Helen
@Waynski: At their peril;no?
Comrade Mary
@Wiesman: Nate is a smart guy about numbers, but that doesn’t mean he can call political reactions with the same level of confidence. We’ll all just see, I guess.
geg6
There is a large disembodied head of Karl Rove floating between the post and the comments. It seems to be for an anti-Rove group, but it is quick disturbing nonetheless. Shudder.
I’ve never seen anything like this. Ever. I thought Howard Fineman was gonna stroke out, he was so over-the-moon about Rmoney’s stupidity and the great opportunties for DRAMA to be found in excavating everything in this video. This is catnip for the chattering class.
Amazing. I’m old enough to remember Johnson v. Goldwater, but wasn’t old enough to really understand. Did it feel as devastatingly bad for Goldwater (like this campaign has) as it became more and more clear that America wasn’t as batshit crazy as the far right was? I’ll have to ask my John, as he was a freshman in college and may have been aware of the zeitgeist. But maybe not since he was in a frat and a football player. But maybe yes, since it was a state college, he came from a working class family, and really did work in the mill during the summer to pay for school.
Culture of Truth
Maybe a little
nitpicker
@Political Observer: So, wait, we’re supposed to care about something Obama said in 1998, but forget everything Romney said from 1994-2009? Good plan.
Comrade Mary
@TooManyJens: I think I found the campaign operative who gave it to us, then took it away.
LanceThruster
@arguingwithsignposts:
Booze commercials with her husband, James carville. Such an adorable pairing of opposites.
(barf)
Todd
How does Mitt think he’s going to govern if he wins? Does he think he’s going to get cheerful, worshipful compliance with a war with Iran? Meaningful tax compliance? Respect during Presidential visits? An absence of searing, agitated anarchist violence against the symbols of patriotism and his fetid, vile class?
Hell, I’ll donate money to help fire up a violent chapter of Weathermen if that comes down.
beltane
@Comrade Mary: Of course Mitt Romney doesn’t “disdain” the poor, he’d gladly have them made into luncheon meat to be sold to Wal-Mart if he thought he had chance of getting away with it.
nitpicker
@TooManyJens: Found a lie they couldn’t tell with a straight face, did they?
Xecky Gilchrist
@Comrade Jake: You mean the video from 12 years ago?
It’s nothing of the kind!
It’s from fourteen years ago.
hee hee
Comrade Mary
Obama on Letterman (4:27 excerpt).
Wiesman
@arguingwithsignposts:
I’m not concern trolling. I think we should bash Romney about the head and neck with this 47% thing for as much as it is worth.
I’m just not sure that this is the “end of his campaign” like a lot of other people seem to think. Conservatives love this crap. Remember when everybody said that the Libya statement was the end of his campaign? Or Clint Eastwood? (Ok, no one really thought that was the end of anything.) Or his failure to mention Afghanistan? Or his picking Paul Ryan? Or Etch a sketch? How many ends does this campaign have?
I remember thinking GWB had no chance in 2004 and sitting in a bar on election night in absolute shock.
The worst thing Democrats can do is think that this thing is over because Romney says or does something stupid. If you think we’re winning then run up the score, but don’t let up.
Helen
@Djur: No No No to all you Nate naysayers. Last election I not only watched the results. I watched the results and compared them to the Nate predictions. HO. LY. COW. Nate predicted the results to the nth degree. Trust me. And if not..trust Nate.
kilks
@Djur:
Also significant portions of the media are invested in this being a gaffe of epic proportions. Waiting let’s us find out for sure if it is Jeremiah Wright or macaca.
arguingwithsignposts
@geg6:
Perhaps the most insightful comment I’ve seen about this whole mess. It’s endless stuff they can talk about so they don’t have to be bored with stump speeches.
TooManyJens
@nitpicker:
The Republicans already want us to forget 2001-2008, so deleting a few extra years of Romney is no big deal really.
mai naem
@Political Observer: Who are your senior democrats? Zell Miller, Pat Caddell and Dick Morris?
Todd
@Comrade Jake:
The inherent indolence of conservatism pops up yet again.
jwb
@Wiesman: Silver’s bread and butter is trolling these sorts of things. He may well be right, but he loses nothing if he trolls and is wrong and gains a lot if he trolls and is right. A man of his betting disposition is going to take that bet and troll every time.
TooManyJens
@Wiesman:
Almost as many as a Jim Steinman song.
arguingwithsignposts
@Wiesman:
What rock were you living under in 2004? I knew Bush was going to win that election weeks before it went down.
Waynski
@Helen: Let’s hope so.
Wiesman
@arguingwithsignposts:
I guess you’re smarter than I was. I really hope so if it means that Romney is done.
Xecky Gilchrist
@Wiesman: You are right about not getting overconfident. However, the sentiment on our side seems to be more along your lines: Don’t get complacent, use this momentum to affect the downticket races as well as the presidential.
Though this ain’t 2004. Obama is no Kerry, thank God; the incumbent is on our side this time; and it’s turning out Rmoney is no GW Bush, and how’s that for damning with faint praise?
geg6
@TooManyJens:
Okay, where would you like me to deliver your internets?
Quarks
@Helen: Romney seems to have a weird habit of seeing everyone in specific, lockstep groups — therefore, “all” Palestinians think the same way about the peace process, and “all” members of the 47% who don’t pay income taxes will vote for Obama, even though neither of these statements is supported by data or, well, actual Palestinians or the 47%.
But he also seems to have trained himself to look quickly at situations and determine what’s hopeless for future investment and what needs to be cut. The sad part for him is the word “quickly,” since this sort of quick decision making often misses nuances. Like, say, the small factor that not all Palestinians share the same political beliefs, or that at least some wealthy people may be inclined to vote for Obama.
Djur
@Helen: Naysayer? Me? I was following Nate in ’08 too. He rarely makes a statement one way or another without polls. That’s his MO. That’s all I’m saying.
nitpicker
@Political Observer: OK. Here’s Halperin:
gwangung
@Xecky Gilchrist:
Two words: killer instinct.
The foot is on the enemy’s throat. What you do now is take a step.
? Martin
@Helen:
It’s actually worse than that. There’s:
1) The 47% Obama base
2) The 47% who pay no federal income tax
3) The 47% who receive federal benefits and are dependent on the government
And yes, they really are all about 47%, and he seems to mash them all together into a single stew. Not coincidentally, if you ask whites what percent of the US population are minorities, they usually come up somewhere just shy of 50%. (it’s 37%)
2) and 3) sound like they might overlap, but they aren’t even close. 3) includes Romney himself – because that 47% includes virtually everyone 65+ on Medicare, plus anyone drawing Social Security (a larger group) plus anyone drawing Unemployment benefits (which they also paid into) plus the ‘welfare’ groups of Medicaid and TANF. So, most of these folks are people that payed into a benefits program and are now drawing those benefits.
2) includes a lot of low income people and young people that don’t receive any federal benefits. They just make too little.
What’s particularly sick about this is that behind muddling those 3 populations, the assertion on 3) is that anyone drawing their legally earned Social Security benefits is a moocher, but Mitt paying 14% in taxes or having a multimillion dollar IRA is just fine because he paid ‘what the law allows’. There’s moral distinction between those taking their legally earned benefits and those paying their legally low tax rate. Their dependency on the government is identical – some factored Social Security checks into their retirement plan, while others factored their tax deductions into their planning. Same thing.
Unbelievable stupid douchebaggery. And incredibly insulting.
mai naem
I have to wonder if Jimmy Carter, the former president, is enjoying this. He’s got to know he’s been used by the Repubs as a punching bag for decades and now his grandson makes the Repub nominee look like an a-hole. There’s got to be some schadenfreude in it for him.
Wiesman
Well, I have to admit that this seems like evidence of 47% being a BFD after all:
http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/09/18/871611/ryan-criticizes-romney-comments-at-private-fundraiser-obviously-inarticulate/
Ryan throws Romney under the bus. LOL.
geg6
@gwangung:
THIS.
eemom
Nate Silver may be a fucking genius and he is ultimately true to the numbers which are his stock in trade, but he sold his ass out to the emmessemm and therefore, his MO throughout this election cycle has been to pimp the horse race meme to the greatest extent possible short of actually tampering with the numbers.
Quarks
@Wiesman: Yes, conservatives love this crap, but he’s doing a terrible job of framing it. He should be talking about our nice pioneer roots and how we used to take pride in our differences from Europe, and now we’re imitating them and setting up European socialism and what happened to the American pride in the family farm and making your own tools and depending on just God and the family? And did I mention just how little taxes everyone had to pay back in those pioneer days when the government only had to build roads and didn’t worry about education and health and regulating environmental emissions and so on?
That’s the debate more “serious” conservatives want to have. — do we go back to this sort of government or not? And some of Romney’s listeners are even hearing that in his arguments. Unfortunately for Romney, his version of this is based on contempt, and this “the 47% will never follow me anyway” strongly suggests that even if he really does think we should go back to that sort of government, he’s not the person who can lead the country there.
Brian R.
@Political Observer:
I know! It totally revealed Obama’s secret plan to raise tax rates on the wealthy! HOW EXPLOSIVE!
mai naem
@Wiesman: I agree with you. I’m not sure it’s going to be as big a deal as we think it is either. I am not sure people have really tuned in yet. However, I do think older people are probably paying attention an hopefully they understand that Rmoney’s talking about them when he says 47percent. Anyhoo, I do hope the Dems don’t get overconfident. There’s still voter suppression to worry about and there’s still a Dem controlled Senate to worry about.
KT
It’s so precious for Romney, a man who “earned” $21 million last year “producing,” “innovating” and doing exactly squat, to comment on the parasites who get up every morning trudge to a shit job. The real parasites are folks like him who make what is literally hundreds of years salary for the average American, every year doing absolutely nothing.
Time for the peasants to revolt. Anyone know where to buy good pitchforks and torches?
Linda Featheringill
I’m not sure how harmful this will be for Romney but it does fill up air time with his mistakes and mismanagement of a campaign.
If you can’t manage a campaign, how can you run a country?
Hill Dweller
The 47% remark will hurt Willard, but there was plenty of other stuff in the video that will get a lot of play before the election.
hhex65
Well, the concern troll Kraken have been released, that much is clear.
danielx
As always, this is good news for Republicans in general and John McCain in particular.
Brian R.
@mai naem:
Probably. He’s an old-school Southern Baptist who believes in the wrath of a righteous God.
Old Dan and Little Ann
Completely off topic but John Stewart just ended his show with Romney’s recent video clip playing while they showed Montgomery Burns giving one of his tirades from The Simpsons. Funny ass shit.
Villago Delenda Est
@Steve:
Well, the scorn of Sturmbannführer Buchanan will certainly wound Obama deeply.
Rita R.
So Hillary Rosen gets pilloried for days for saying Ann Romney has never worked a day in her life, but not a peep from anyone about Mary Matalin calling large numbers of Americans “takers” and “parasites.” She called human beings “parasites” and nothing? So much for our liberal media.
@Comrade Mary:
CNN’s dimwit Erin Burnett called Mother Jones a “far left” publication last night.
@arguingwithsignposts:
Chuck Todd sounded almost angry this morning on Morning Joe. The feeling I get from him and some of the other pundits floored by this is that they’re actually upset about just how incompetent Romney and his team are as political professionals. That seems to be outraging them as much or more than the hideous content of what Romney says.
Chris
@Helen:
Not as bizzarre as all that. Conservative mind = inability to handle complexity. Quite a few low infos probably think it’s a perfect overlap of 47%ers.
nitpicker
@Villago Delenda Est: With God as my witness, I thought Buchanan was dead.
Rafer Janders
Obama on Letterman in about 20 minutes. This is going to be good….
handy
Read this on the twitter today:
Mitt Romney, born on third base, thinks he owns baseball.
SatanicPanic
@Wiesman: I don’t think it’s a big deal because pretty much everyone has their mind made up except for the 1-2% who are going to choose on the day of, and they’re idiots. And since Obama is in the lead, we can pretty much consider this election a done deal.
Djur
@hhex65: “I’m not sure this is going to hurt Romney” is NOT concern trolling, for fuck’s sake! “I’m worried Obama will turn off moderates by attacking Romney on this” would be concern trolling.
LD50
Major GOP politicians and commentators are basically saying that half of all Americans are worthless. This is unprecedented.
Calouste
I am assume the only reason that Matalin uses the word ‘parasites’ is that she can’t pronounce ‘Untermenschen’.
SiubhanDuinne
@Rafer Janders:
We need one of the front pagers to liveblog Letterman.
handy
@LD50:
Saying it out loud certainly is unprecedented.
? Martin
@Rita R.:
They take this seriously, and Romney won’t talk to anyone but Fox, the only interesting things we hear from him are from secret tapes, he does 2 question pressers and then storms off, and lies constantly.
They should be upset. We all should. It’s like the first presidential candidate to troll the nation.
RaflW
@Rafer Janders: On now…
O seems relaxed and enjoying himself.
Hill Dweller
Colbert’s first segment was hilarious. He delivered Willard’s message “more elegantly” by dressing in a tux and top hat, and throwing shrimp to poor people(one dressed in a military uniform).
Villago Delenda Est
@Rita R.:
They can’t believe that anyone, anyone, could be mounting a national campaign and be this fucking clueless about everything.
And as for Matlin, don’t forget she’s one of the Dark Lord’s Sith apprentices. Truly a power vampire parasite.
Rita R.
@Calouste:
Or whatever the word is in the language spoken in Rwanda for “cockroach.”
eemom
@danielx:
Please, I beg of you: four fucking years later and immersed in the entrails of this clusterfucked clown who makes John McCain look like fucking Abraham Lincoln…..CAN’T we FINALLY, for good and all, STOP beating that deader than a thousand dead horses godawfully tedious THIS IS GOOD NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN that was never fucking funny in the first place??
k.thx.bai.
SiubhanDuinne
POTUS has the most winsome, engaging grin. I just light up when he smiles.
hhex65
@Djur: Heh, indeed.
Helen
@? Martin: Yeah. Mitt says that he pays “what the law requires; not one penny more” So do the 47%’ers; who he thinks pay nothing. Why is it OK if he pays only what is owed, but others; not so much? Aren’t low (or no) taxes a good thing?
handy
I suppose it was inevitable one of these doofuses would try to run a national campaign to Fox viewers. Pretty bizarre considering how much the rest of the media media pretty much lapped up whatever the Bushies threw out there, and have a fairly solid history of being naturally inclined to disdain Democratic politicians. By all rights November 6th should be a huge Gooper wakeup call.
handy
@eemom:
Hey Troofie way back here brought it up first.
ranchandsyrup
I very much prefer legendary character actor Marlee Matlin.
Helen
@Linda Featheringill: Nah I don’t buy that. It’s like saying “if you can run a business, you can run the givernment.” They are two totally different animals.
Brian R.
@Rita R.:
Yep.
It reminds me of watching the postgame show after a shitty Super Bowl. They spent weeks investing in a lot of hype for the big game, and then one side just fucks it up. They wanted a show, and they got a shut-out. A lot of people tuned out toward the end. Not good for business.
danielx
@Rita R.:
Well, in a way they’re not wrong, although, granted, Romney’s policy positions would gag a maggot. From their viewpoint, how he runs his campaign tends to reflect his competency as a manager. From what I can make out, as a manager Mittens can’t walk around the block without sinking his foot deep in the dogshit and then sticking said foot in his mouth up to midcalf. So is this the guy you want with access to the red phone/button/whatever, especially with the collection of Cheney Administration paragons of suck/fail he has as foreign policy advisers?
Plus there’s that whole thing about Villagers just loving them some hard nosed Republican competency, although after eight years of GWB that particular meme has worn a little thin. For a Republican Wall Street marvel to be exposed as a class A fuckup, well, that harshes their mellow and sprays shit all over their worldview.
maya
Has it occurred to anyone that Mitt might actually be a saboteur hired by Obama to destroy the Republican party?
Nice rumor to spread around.
Rita R.
@Brian R.:
I think you’ve gotten to what it’s mostly about. They want to be entertained and see two competitors/teams at the top of their games duke it out, and now it’s looking almost like one side sent in a patsy to take a fall.
KeithinOhio
@Political Observer: I don’t understand what is supposed to be so damning about the words “redistribution” when it comes to the President using it. An effort to redistribute wealth in this country would appeal to the working classes especially the middle and poor. Only Mitts 1%ers would hate this idea. What Mitt said in his secret fundraiser was reprehensible and offensive to half of the nation. Much different. This fake equivalency bullshit is getting old. The Rightwing is grasping for straws and they know the writing is on the wall as in its close to being over. Obama/Biden 2012!!
LD50
@Wiesman: He’s already thinking ahead to 2016. As an Ayn Rand freak he can’t possibly be seriously offended by Romney’s sentiments.
Villago Delenda Est
@KeithinOhio:
The 1% LOVES redistribution when it’s coming to them, as it has been for the past 30 years, at higher rates under Rethugs than Dems. Had Al Gore been the one taking the oath in January, 2001, the Dems would have had four more years to continue the trend of slowing down and perhaps reversing entirely the redistribution from the upper middle class, middle class, working class, working poor, and flat out poor to the parasite overclass.
No, redistribution the RIGHT way, to leeches like Rmoney is just dandy. Allowing the people who actually create the wealth to retain more of it is SOCIA1ISM!
Rita R.
Obama is killing on Letterman. The serious stuff and the one-liners both. I never got this rap on him that he’s aloof and cold. He always comes off as simpatico to me.
patroclus
I’m with the concern trolls that this isn’t really likely to hurt Romney all that much. But I’m with my fellow Obots in that it isn’t going to help him either and it’s gonna be several days in which he isn’t going to get much traction and is thus, for a challenger, wasted time. The reason I don’t think it’s going to hurt is that everyone already knows he’s a condescending elitist prick and virtually everyone has already made up their mind regardless. But it’s gonna energize Dems for GOTV and down-ballot stuff.
We’re sort of in a holding period until the debates – I suspect that the polls will stay relatively close with Obama holding a slight lead until then.
Steve
@eemom: Here’s the thing: the next meme isn’t going to be any funnier. Unless it’s “grog whistle,” of course.
Joel
@patroclus: Yep. This is my sense as well. This stuff, which will own the news cycle for the week, will stabilize the polls some. And that’s only good news when you’re in the lead.
JustAnotherBob
@mai naem:
A very bad mistake we Democrats made. Jimmy Carter was a lot more successful than we let the Republicans portray him.
We do not stand up strongly enough for our own.
We let Republicans portray Carter as a looser and Reagan as the greatest president ever. That was a major mistake we made.
dogwood
@Rita R.:
Well, of course you didn’t because he’s neither.
I can’t say for sure how this will all play out, but I predict that the pundits will declare Romney the winner of all the debates, and the public will side with the President. The debates will be a clear reminder of what people like and admire about the president. His calm, his charm, and his natural grace are his best assets in a one on one forum. Political pundits, and political scientists like to predict outcomes based on unemployment numbers, right-track/wrong-track surveys and GDP, but candidates and campaigns matter. There’s nothing Mitt Romney will say in those debates that will rattle Obama.
Mnemosyne
@Rita R.:
As my husband said tonight, “The more people see of Obama, the more the like him. The more people see of Romney, the less they like him.”
Dumb and shallow as it is, “likeability” is important in a successful politician. I personally hated George W Bush, but he has a common personality type that a lot of Americans do tend to respond to. The one thing W had over Romney is that W could do the frat boy self-deprecating “aw shucks” thing and Romney can’t pull it off.
ETA: Also, too, I’ve never understood the “cold and aloof” thing when it comes to Obama, but I’m from the Midwest where we don’t do that “demonstrative” thing that people in other parts of the country do. It seems that Hawaii has a similar culture since the reserve of many Asian cultures and Midwestern missionary manners had some compatibilities, so I think a lot of Midwesterners are puzzled by that particular meme.
Rita R.
@Mnemosyne:
Yep, Romney just doesn’t have the emotional intelligence to be a good politician, and it’s an essential part of the skill set. The fact that he’s gotten this far is a testament to the power of money, as well as having a political pedigree, being up against a weak GOP field, and looking like what the Village thinks a president is supposed to look like.
And I agree there are more ways to be likeable than just fraternity bro (Bush) or good ol’ boy (Clinton).
Cacti
@arguingwithsignposts:
What has Mitt ever “made” for that matter?
His Dad made cars.
Mitt took business that “made” products and sucked them dry.
xian
@Rita R.: chuck todd is outraged that romney is making him work too hard to find ways to say both sides do it and the race is tied.
xian
@eemom: because your sense of humor is fine tuned as a swiss watch
Patricia Kayden
@Wiesman: You’re right. The polls are good news for President Obama now, but that could change. Gallup already has the two pretty much tied.
I’ll wait until all the votes are counted before celebrating. I have a feeling that the media is going to call the first debate for The Bot just to keep him in the race.
nemesis
Mom turned 80 years old in August. Dad turned 90 last week. They use Social Security and Medicare benefits.
When I informed them that mitt believes them to be moochers and parasites, well, they were not impressed.
Their vote by mail ballots have been applied for. Here in OH its a silly, repetitive process. Whateves, they are excited to vote by mail for the first time in their lives.
nemesis
@eemom: 538 had Obama at an 80% probability of winning from last weeks poll numbers (72% now).
How is that pimping the horse race?
ohsuzanna
I’m sure her daughters must be very proud to hear their mother refer to other human beings as “parasites.” This thing has gotten under my skin even more (almost) than the Romney tapes. What kind of person does that? Really, what kind of person talks like that?
ottercliff
@arguingwithsignposts: Noise
ottercliff
I believe I saw a picture of Mary Matalin in the dictionary next to the word parasite a while back. As I recall she is recently coming off of a long stretch attached to the withering body of one Richard “Dick” Cheney.
jimmiraybob
Is this the same or a different parasite problem that the Germans were working on early last century?
Stay strong Dr. Mary, stay strong.
[Yes, I know. Broken intertube traditions and all.]
belledame222
@Wiesman:
If you go to electoral-vote.com, you can look up “on this date” in 2004 and scroll forward to Election Day, or backward, for that matter. The trends are pretty consistent with the result. It’s neck and neck, but Bush maintains a narrow lead for almost all of it, especially toward the end.
Now look at the trend so far this year. Obama’s just about never *not* been in the lead. You’ll find similar trendlines at 538 and 270 to win, which is even narrower because they’ll leave out “statistical ties,” but still, no matter how narrow, doesn’t get Romney ahead. It’s ranges from a very narrow Obama lead to a somewhat wider Obama lead pretty much across the boards.
It makes sense, too, because the races in many ways are almost mirror images of each other. Except this time, the Dem is the incumbent, and the challenger is a very weak one (from Massachussetts, yet) who consistently fails to make his case why he’s *better* than even a relatively weak incumbent during a period where it’s lousy, but doesn’t feel THAT dire to as many people as it does to the base that they’re necessarily willing to go for the even less prepossessing alternative.
Matt McIrvin
@belledame222: They’ve got graphs that make the point even more clearly:
http://electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/ec_graph-2012.html
2004 was a very different election. It was really close, almost as close as 2000, and after the Swift Boat stuff, Bush was in the lead through September into October; Kerry had to come from behind to make the final count as close as it was.
This year’s a lot more like 2008, except that for most of the campaign Obama has been doing even better, probably just because he’s the incumbent. It may well be closer than 2008 in the end if Romney’s support doesn’t collapse like McCain’s did after the Lehman Brothers collapse, but you never know.
Matt McIrvin
…I’ve heard the idea before, by the way, that Kerry was leading in the polls in 2004 but sort of mysteriously lost. It isn’t borne out unless you ignore everything past the end of the summer.
I think where it comes from is the exit polls. In the last week of the 2004 campaign, the race was extremely close, but most of the poll-aggregation sites called it basically right on election eve. (One that got it wrong was Sam Wang’s election.princeton.edu, but it was because he had his thumb on the scale: he tweaked his data according to a political-science hypothesis that undecided voters would break strongly for the challenger. His undoctored data made a spot-on prediction, which taught him never to make that mistake again.)
But at some point on Election Day 2004, there were a bunch of early exit polls that got leaked showing a surprisingly strong lead for Kerry. Combined with a bunch of anecdotal reports of a Kerry surge, that got Democrats really excited.
To the point that when it all turned out to be false, some assumed that it was a stolen election. While Blackwell was obviously pulling horrible crap in Ohio, I think I agree with Mark Blumenthal that it wasn’t enough to have swung the result. And Bush pretty clearly got a narrow popular plurality.
The thing about exit polls is that, though they have a reputation for being more accurate than regular polls (because you’re asking people who already voted, right?) they’re really not. They’re generally taken under conditions that make it very hard to get an unbiased sample, or to adjust for the biases that exist. In this case, it’s likely that Kerry voters were for some reason more likely to talk to the exit pollers.
At any rate, the polling up to that point hadn’t been showing a solid Kerry lead.
Sara
@Spaghetti Lee:
Unfortunately, they disassociate themselves from the “parasites.” “Rmoney is my friend; Mary is such a NICE Catholic girl; they couldn’t POSSIBLY be talking about me!” Hah.