(Walt Handelsman via GoComics.com)
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How many is that in #Romneyshambles terms?
And what else is on the agenda tonight?
This post is in: Open Threads, Romney of the Uncanny Valley
(Walt Handelsman via GoComics.com)
__
How many is that in #Romneyshambles terms?
And what else is on the agenda tonight?
Comments are closed.
The Ancient Randonneur
Yes! For all you Yankee haters: Derek Jeter is voting for Obama. But, hey, all you Red Sox fans still have Kurt Schilling!
the Conster
Romney – worst candidate in my lifetime, or worst candidate ever?
Richard
Mitt’s Commandment:
ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL
BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.
Joel
Fuck the Yankees, and fuck Curt Schilling.
Yutsano
@The Ancient Randonneur: Wake me when Derek finally comes out. Preferably with Tebow.
And FTFY.
jl
Has the Romney white slave forced labor coal ad scandal hit the big time news yet?
elftx
Anyone else see the report that Rmoney died his face brown for his Univision interview?
The Other Bob
I just hope that the Dems in Mass. thinking of splitting their ticket and voting for that nice man Brown, so they can call themselves bipartisan, come to their senses before they blow it for the whole country.
The Other Bob
@the Conster: Been thinking the same thing. I am forty, cannot think of someone worse, D or R.
raven
@efgoldman: Yea, it sucks.
MikeJ
@the Conster:
Romney isn’t a bad candidate. All those Republicans who voted for him because they thought he was their best shot at beating Obama were absolutely right. Romney’s problem is the Republican party is batshit insane.
There ain’t nobody who could run as a Republican and win in a Presidential election with their party as insane as it is.
Baud
@MikeJ:
While I agree with what you say about the Republican Party, Romney is a horrible candidate. He can’t relate, can’t stick to a position, and lies unconvincingly.
Tonal Crow
@elftx:
Is that grammatical? Oh, you meant “dyed”.
Baud
@Tonal Crow:
Romney dyed his face, but he died his candidacy.
Little Boots
Romeny’s doomed.
MikeJ
More proof the GOP is nuts: South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) “is at the top of the Club for Growth’s target list for 2014,” Politico reports.
Tonal Crow
@Baud:
Good one!
JPL
Mediaite has tonight’s SNL video up about Romney and Fox News. I doubt that Fox news or Mitt’s campaign laughs it off.
Baud
@efgoldman:
You mean against Bill Clinton?
Booman on his site made an interesting observation the other day: Since 1988, the Republicans have only once won the popular vote for president – Bush in 2004. And say what you will about Bush, he was a far better candidate than he was a president.
Schlemizel
47 days? That works out to 7.46 new fiascoes. This fall will be entertaining.
Tonal Crow
@MikeJ:
The purity purges must continue while any whiff of a Democrat remains in the building. Roll in ze guillotines! Vive le revolution et ze Great Terror!
Little Boots
right, john?
why don’t you ever admit I’m always right?
danah gaz
Okay I’d just like to point out the continuing fail parade that is Romney.
Most of you know I know a little bit about Mexico and Mexicans.
Here’s something you may not know about Mexicans.
(Yes these are generalizations, they aren’t universal, but reflect tendencies)
1. Mexicans are very good at discerning skin-tone. They are also quite nuanced about it. Us white folks aren’t “white” so much as we’re either Pink, Orange, or Yellow depending on our complexions. (They also put a lot more attention into shade than we do, not just hue)
2. Pale is generally considered to be “better looking”. They like pale. If two of their candidates were to go on TV, and they had nothing else to go on, no party preference (yeah right, Mexicans generally have one, but hypothetically) they’d likely pick the pale person.
So here’s Romney on Univision: (lower picture)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WZN7dwyuJlk/UFuZrFcF7OI/AAAAAAAABHQ/s3hBNCL69pU/s512/LOL%2520Mitt.jpg
God, the hits just keep coming.
He looks like John Boehner
ETA: It looks like some of you beat me to it. sorry.
Soonergrunt
Less than $450 to get us to $51K. Surely we can make another $450 in the next five and half hours?
raven
@Schlemizel: Once again, I appear to be wrong:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/tom-and-rays-bios-photos-2
beltane
@the Conster: Worst major party presidential candidate of the modern era. Not only does he categorically dismiss half of the country as parasitic losers-and that was the real Mitt-but his mean, vulgar wife piles on with this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/20/1134461/-Ann-Romney-says-her-horse-is-classier-than-you-people
The thought of not-sufficiently-rich people casting votes for them must make them feel dirty.
Baud
@danah gaz:
I have to admit, though, Romney’s rendition of “Mammy” was endearing.
gbear
Rich people are peopler, my friend.
Schlemizel
@Baud:
I assumed he meant against Obama but I see his point. But the GOP of the early 90’s is not that far on financial and regulatory issue from what we have had the last 4 years so they are winning there. Some days I think this has been their plan all along. They have dragged the Dems over to their actual position on taxes, regulation, financial management, DoD, torture and the 1% that owns the GOP really never cared about abortion or civil rights so they win big & the Dems will end up with some (maybe all) of the blame & the GOP can ride to the rescue
Lurking Canadian
@MikeJ: They heard he talked to a Democrat once, so he’s got to go.
nitpicker
Romney was frontin.
General Stuck
Finally, something that isn’t Obama’s fault. But the night is young.
Baud
@efgoldman:
That fair. But to take the counter-factual all the way, if the Republican Party weren’t as crazy as it is right now, the economy wouldn’t be nearly as weak as it is, because they would have felt pressure to work with Obama to fix things.
Little Boots
can we not pick on johnnie?
really?
can we not?
Chris
@MikeJ:
You’re absolutely right, but I still think that Romney is also a terrible candidate. Out of touch, too lazy to realize he needs to change that or to put any effort into the campaign, too narcissistic to listen to or even hire people smarter than him who might be able to turn things around, and he’s got terrible political instincts.
He probably was the best candidate in this year, and there’s not much better in the rest of the party, but that doesn’t change that he’s an AWFUL fucking candidate. He and his cross-burning freak convention of a party deserve each other.
Schlemizel
@raven: damn big of you to admit it – I didn’t care enough to check & just assumed you knew.
It sort of bugs me to think that a guy with a PHd is fixing cars. I worked with a guy who had been a lawyer but quit to become a programer. That bugs me in ways I can’t completely explain and probably are not fair. What kid at 22-24 knows what they want to do in life? But I would have killed to have been able to go to law school. I know he didn’t take a seat away from me (I couldn’t even afford a BA) but at a gut level I think he took a seat from some kid who would still want to use his degree. Its not rational I know but its in my head.
nitpicker
@efgoldman: Dude, blockquoting in these comments is all sorts of quirky.
GregB
@danah gaz:
Let’s not forget that in the 47%-Gate tapes he was lamenting the fact that it was unfortunate he was born to white parents.
He’s even flip-flopped on his ethnicity.
Baud
@Schlemizel:
I don’t see that. The ’90s GOP would have hated Wall Street reform (they deregulated Wall Street during that time). During the 90s, deregulation was a big deal, and we have not been like that during Obama. Obama has not yet politically been able to end the Bush tax cuts, but he hasn’t reversed course on his position. And torture wasn’t really an issue in the 1990s, and Obama hasn’t adopted the GOP position on it, but reversed Bush’s policy.
The Ancient Randonneur
Looks like Ann Romney STILL doesn’t like you people in the 47%:
[Emphasis added]
That quote is from a friend and supporter.
the Conster
@JPL:
There’s no coming back from being a punch line. I never thought I’d see the day, but I truly believe that something has essentially changed in the zeitgeist in the last couple of days. Ridicule has taken over where logic, facts and reason couldn’t make a dent. Was it the lies? The etch-a-sketching every day all day? The uncanny valley? All of the above? Anyway, it’s fun to watch.
Chris
@Baud:
Yeah, and I think we can agree 2004 happened under extreme circumstances. Bush was set to be a one termer and his party wasn’t looking too good either. 9/11 was an absolute godsend to them.
raven
@Schlemizel: I dunno, I’ve had an EdD for 15 years and I love working on my cars. I got a fucking GED in the Army in 67 and it took until I was 50 to earn a doctorate.
eta, the Wki site does list his doctorate in the box on the right but not in the bio.
danah gaz
Romney Campaign Button Fail:
https://p.twimg.com/A3AIukmCMAAPx_X.jpg
I think this says it all. Really.
Schlemizel
@General Stuck:
Are you sure he didn’t mean Barack Hussein Satan?
danah gaz
@GregB: Forgotten? Hah.
I just had it tattooed on my ass.
It should make a splash at the polling place. =)
Chris
@The Ancient Randonneur:
“Certainly better bred than the owner.”
Little Boots
@danah gaz:
pictures or it didn’t happen.
Soonergrunt
@raven: and I think you’re all the cooler for all that.
the Conster
@efgoldman:
Upon further reflection, it was seeing Romney being passionate and unerringly articulate in expressing his contempt for half of the country as victims entitled to food and housing, and then the jig was up. That’s some fucking ugly ass reality right there, and there’s no spinning it without looking like you’re a fucking asshole too, which is just a bridge too far for media figures outside of the Fox bubble. The puke funnel choked on Romney. Huh.
Little Boots
@danah gaz:
pictures or it didn’t happen.
GregB
President Obama has to make a joint campaign appearance with Elizabeth Warren in Mass.
That will seal the deal.
Brown is foundering.
Baud
@GregB:
If Obama can keep up a good lead in the polls, he might be able to steal away from the swing states in October to do a joint appearance. That would be existing.
Geoduck
@efgoldman:
That’s another thing that’s killing him; nobody really likes him, including the big-league reporters. He’s getting a lot less slack than Bush or McCain.
Schlemizel
@raven:
work on cars yes but if you make that your job it makes me wonder why you got the advance degree. It seems like a waste for you and taking an opening from someone else.
I know this is not rational and it isn’t fair but its a feeling in my lizard brain that my higher functions have to be aware of and fight.
raven
@Soonergrunt: That means a lot coming from you. Thanks.
Here’s a little write up I did for a VA publication.
Chris
@the Conster:
Yes.
Like I said earlier today, I still don’t think he gives a shit about most issues, but the video cleared up that as far as the Randroid economic royalist part of the platform goes, THAT he believes in heart and soul.
Baud
—TPM
raven
@Schlemizel: Yea but these dudes own a shop and parlayed their knowledge into something much bigger. To me there is great dignity in being able to work with your hands and your mind. I used to hang with a bunch of gear heads on Saturday mornings. Georgia mechanics and short track guys. I would marvel at their understanding of wide ranges of components and functions of vehicles. There are several here, people that can DO something. Odemanettee (sp) helped me greatly with the rear end on my chev.
nite nite
GregB
@Baud:
Looking at the aggregate polls on 538, it appears as though the post convention bump and then drop off from the high has ended and Obama is headed back upward and Mitt is heading downward.
Mitt is now also in the terrible position of carpet bombing the airwaves with ads just as he’s becoming a laughingstock.
It is going to rally his opposition and remind his weak supporters how much they can’t stand him.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Baud:
Yeah, real salt of the Earth.
the Conster
@Baud:
Love that headline. I can smell the flopsweat from here.
dmsilev
Via TPM, this is hilarious. It seems that Lady Ann feels that her husband is not properly appreciated:
..Adding “Leave Mitt Romney ALLLLOOOOONNNNEEEEEE”.
Baud
@Baud:
FTFM
Soonergrunt
@raven: That is awesome. Stories like that are why I’m proud to be a Vet and proud to work at VA.
Soonergrunt
@Baud: Be nice to Ann. She doesn’t deal well when the help get uppity.
Schlemizel
@raven:
Very impressive. You sir are a mensch.
I was 4F (which considering the time was not a bad thing) and could not afford college. I managed to get a job for a company with tuition reimbursement & stated night school at the U of MN. I completed about 1/2 a BS when family happened (funny story my wife was using an IUD) and it just got to be to much, I never finished. I have been denied several jobs I am qualified for simply because I don’t have that paper.
I admire guys like you who could overcome a bad start & make a good result. At the same time I want to donkey punch these graduated assholes who write how college isn’t worth it & kids today shouldn’t go. Those morons have no idea the ghetto they are assigning people to.
Pavonis
@raven: Many physics and math graduates, especially from the Ivy League, go on to become quants at Wall Street. It’s basically finding better ways to leech money from the system, without adding any productive value to society. The culture in some elite physics departments is, “you’re a loser if you don’t stay in academia, but if you don’t stay, at least get filthy rich on Wall Street”.
Actually, I think the whole American academic research system is screwed up, using postdocs and grad students as transient cheap labor and giving a lucky few overpaid tenured professorships. It destroys family life, does not reward innovation, makes people unhappy, and is especially harsh on women. And in the age of worship of the quarterly profit report, we can’t rely on private industry for long-term R&D anymore (like at Bell Labs). The entire system needs reform.
Jay in Oregon
@GregB:
I want to know what world he lives in where being Latino is an electoral advantage—especially a Republican.
Shit, he’d have to worry about Joe Arpaio bagging and tagging him to send back across the border. And if you think the thing with Obama’s birth certificate is bad, imagine what they’d do to a candidate who most of them would probably think swam across the Rio Grande as a baby…
beltane
@dmsilev: See, Ann is fair. She started out the day insulting rank and file Democrats and she ended the day insulting members of her own party. Ann’s “you people” is a much bigger tent than her husband’s 53%ers.
Little Boots
is it wrong to miss omnes at this point.
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@dmsilev: Ann Romney may be right here. The GOP would be far worse off with Rick Perry or Noot or (pick one) as a nominee. We’d be worse off as well, having to resuscitate one another from laughter induced fits.
Soonergrunt
@Little Boots: what happened to Omnes?
Cmm
@Schlemizel:
Wow, I feel like I should apologize since I had a fellowship to,grad school to get my Ph.D. In history. Did finish my MA but never finished my diss and eventually dropped out. And now I’m a cop.
Sparrowgal
@efgoldman: Yeah, that one’s been going around for about a week now on @MexicanMitt, which is exploding with Romneycolor just about now:
–ORANGE YOU GLAD I’M LATINO?
–Romney’s face is so brown that even Sheriff Arpaio wants to see his birth certificate now
–Did you hear the one about the Latin Spray for white people?
Little Boots
@Soonergrunt:
don’t know, I just know I miss him.
danah gaz
@Little Boots: LOL!
Soonergrunt
It looks like BiBi just figured out whose going to win the election, cause he just threw Mitt under the Merkava IV.
dead existentialist
@raven:
EdD is not really a doctorate, Forrest. Remember the old saw, “Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach; those who can’t teach, teach teachers.”
And taking 30-odd years to “earn” a EdD (Eddie?) speaks volumes about your academic abilities.
trollhattan
@dmsilev:
“If you don’t show my Mittens some love RIGHT NOW I’m going to [have my man] bring Rafalca straight over to your place and stomp the
grassdichondra around the sculpture garden reflecting pond.” [stamps expensive pumps with vigor]Mnemosyne
@Schlemizel:
You would have really hated a guy I knew at USC who had graduated from Harvard Medical and decided to change course and go to film school instead.
Sometimes people change their minds about what they want to do, or they get the degree their parents wanted them to get and then go out to get the one they actually wanted all along.
Little Boots
@danah gaz:
see what omnes is missing.
where is he?
jwb
@Soonergrunt: Although the message was delivered by Barak, who was already tacitly supporting Obama.
Baud
—TPM
JoyfulA
@Schlemizel: There’s a glut of lawyers and PhDs on the job market. Those who missed an opportunity to borrow a small fortune, study for years, and be unable to repay student loans can mostly see themselves as lucky.
When I got my master’s, I was tempted to go on for the fun of calling myself “doctor,” but I was already sick of the field (and didn’t have the money or time). (I’ve always enjoyed “Introduction to” courses and been bored by the follow-ups. I lucked into work that’s all “introduction to.”)
Shawn in ShowMe
@The Other Bob:
You have to go back to Horatio Seymour in the 19th century, whose core campaign message was that Grant and the Republicans were a bunch of ni-Clang lovers.
J.D. Rhoades
@danah gaz:
danah gaz, is this analogous to the divide between “light-skinned” African Americans and “dark skinned”?
This was once explained to me over bong hits by my college roommate, who was (and I assume still is) African American, and I have to tell you, it blew my mind.
Ruckus
@Chris:
too narcissistic to listen to or even hire people smarter than him who might be able to turn things around
It’s that he’s too narcissistic to believe there are people smarter than him, that’s why he can’t hire them.
Chris
@Soonergrunt:
You know, if by some miracle Romney does win, there’s going to be a lot of fucking awkwardness about things like this.
trollhattan
BTW, this is how it’s done.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/09/20/4836645/voter-registration-joins-the-online.html#storylink=misearch
Violet
@Schlemizel:
Couldn’t disagree more. Plenty of people get advanced degrees and don’t do anything related to their degree. Barack Obama has a law degree. Is he practicing law? No, but that degree certainly helps him in his current job of President.
Just because someone isn’t being whatever their degree is doesn’t mean they’re not using their degree, that they’ve wasted their time or “taken an opening from someone”. Maybe that advanced degree helps them understand their business better. Maybe they pursue it as a hobby or teach others about it. Maybe it’s just impossible for some people to get jobs in certain fields no matter what their degree, so they don’t really get to put it to use. There could be any number of reasons people aren’t doing whatever their degree is as a full time job, but that doesn’t mean the degree is wasted.
As for “taking an opening from someone”, not all degree programs are so competitive that people get turned away. Plenty of universities take most qualified applicants into their programs.
Soonergrunt
@Chris: As opposed to the awkwardness that they’ve already injected into the relationship?
Anya
@Little Boots: You really like omnes that much?
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
I got a ‘computer’ degree in the ’80s and had a nice half-career at that. Fooled around at other stuff for about 10 years and now I’m an industrial laser technician as of this month. Sample quotes from a repair session:
“this looks so cool under polarized light”
“HEY! Quit hogging the microscope!”
“was your shirt smoldering a minute ago?”
“There was no explosion. That was a Spontaneous Percussive Event.”
“Get a full mop bucket. I need to point 6 kilowatts of infrared at something for a few minutes.”
This is expected in our family. My sister with a MFA from UoMi is a nurse now. My brother who was a pastry chef is now a commercial interior restoration carpenter. Youngest brother with a PHD is still a scientist, breaking with family tradition, but may end up a chef.
Gravenstone
@dead existentialist: Is there a particular reason you’re choosing to be a proudly pretentious prick here? Some people actually choose to live life before returning to academic endeavors.
Little Boots
@Anya:
i just miss him.
he smart.
Ruckus
@dead existentialist:
That my friend is one of the most pompous remarks I’ve ever heard.
Ever hear of life happening?
Ever hear of not being handed one of the better lives?
Sure doesn’t sound like it.
Corner Stone
@dead existentialist: I can’t speak to his experience but I will say I have worked more than full time the entire time I went to school for a BS and other pursuits.
That meant I didn’t pull any of it off in what might be categorized as an “expected” time frame.
I’m pretty sure I can still out thumb wrestle you any time you’re feeling froggy.
trollhattan
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
My bro has a chem degree from MI goddamn T and has never worked a day as a chemist. Got into computer tech, which, as we know it now didn’t exist when he was in school. There where chemist jobs when he matriculated but they’d dried up by the time he graduated.
I’m sure that was somebody’s fault.
Chris
@Soonergrunt:
Oh, that’ll pass as soon as he loses, if he loses. None of these people have to give a damn what happens then. But if he wins? Then all the Death Eaters are going to have that really awkward moment when they have to explain to Voldemort why they gave up on him. He’s going to make them all kneel, crawl, beg and kiss his ring.
WaterGirl
@JPL: That video was laugh out loud funny. And you’re right, Romney and Fox will not think it’s funny. At all. Which makes it even better.
trollhattan
@Ruckus: Was thinking “Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?” as I read that.
Violet
@J.D. Rhoades: You’ll see the same thing in the Indian culture (India, not Native American). Check out Indian dating or mail order bride type websites and you’ll see the women describing themselves as light skinned or fair. There’s a big skin lightening market there too.
SarahT
R.I.P. Troy Davis : As of tomorrow it will have been one year since his execution.
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone: And my sister, who is older than I am (snicker), just recently earned her Master Social Work.
We didn’t get much easy. She worked 3 part time jobs to put herself through college, and then gave me her car when she got a job so I could drive myself to work and school.
This just seems a little specious.
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@trollhattan:
I know two people with Chem degrees they’re not using.
My juvenile delinquent nephew is graduating next year from MiState with a Physics degree and zero prospects. He plans to go into the Navy. They will kick his ass, and that’s a great thing. In 4 years he’ll be a different person.
Ruckus
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
Hell I’ve had 3 different careers in the last 50 yrs and am in semi-retirement now, doing something else. I have been able to learn things in each one that helped with the next one. And none of them had anything to do with my major – pre med. And even there I learned things (organic chemistry and statistics mostly) which I was able to put to good use in one of the careers.
Corner Stone
The darker your skin color the closer you are to manual labor, as a perception.
rikyrah
Did you see Tweety’s last comment about that GOP thug from PA who said that anyone Black who didn’t get their Voter ID was jDid you see Tweety’s last comment about that GOP thug from PA who said that anyone Black who didn’t get their Voter ID was just ‘lazy’ like Willard said.
to quote Tweety:
there’s been too much silence from White people on this issue. Black people saw it from the start
Pavonis
@Violet: And East Asia too. Really much of the non-West world values fair skin over tans. The West did too once. Tanning is a sign of a leisured life in the modern USA. But in most places and times, it meant you were outdoors doing manual labor.
trollhattan
WTF does this even mean, from Scotty pinkpants?
Corner Stone
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
Yeah, he’ll be gay. If the popular ’70s song is any guide.
Little Boots
for omnes, who usually hates every song I post, but like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6DN11Q4Kao
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@Ruckus:
My more or less resume since I got married 12 years ago:
Business Analyst
Mainframe Programmer
Tooling machinist
Clothing Retail
Fine Jewelry Retail
Electronics Tech
Freelance Tech Writer*
Custodial Supervisor
Machinery Repair Tech
Laser Field Service Engineer
This checkered career might be a drawback for some people but I was able to convince my new employer that it showed I could make a living at a lot of things and what I wanted now was to work for them. They went for it.
Of all of my past careers I think restaurant waiter (1976 – 1982) taught me the most useful skills.
*new article due this month!
Corner Stone
@Schlemizel: I have an advanced degree, and have been employed doing things in my field for some time now. Compensated pretty well, all things being said.
But when I wake up at 4:30 in the morning most days because I can’t sleep anymore and I start organizing my day and setting priorities, I really think about becoming an electrician.
Anya
@trollhattan: That’s quitta from wasilla level incoherence.
Little Boots
corner stone, you do something wonderful.
what is that?
Mnemosyne
@Pavonis:
IIRC, the reason it changed in the West was the Industrial Revolution — having a tan became the new sign that you were a person of leisure because it showed you could spend time outdoors during the day, unlike the factory and office workers who were cooped up during daylight hours.
The fashion may even be able to be specifically traced to Coco Chanel, but I’m too lazy to go look it up right now.
arguingwithsignposts
@dead existentialist: I hope that was snark. If not, go fuck yourself with a post hole digger.
Corner Stone
@Little Boots: I paint murals over graffiti on walls of inner city buildings. I have a PhD in Art History so sometimes I incorporate some of the classics into my work. Usually I go with a variant of Rothko.
They pay me a per diem plus a bowl of whatever the soup of the day is at the kitchen.
JCT
@dead existentialist: Mitt? Is that you? Wow, you really are an asshole 24/7.
Little Boots
@Corner Stone:
but other stuff.
you do other stuff.
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@Mnemosyne:
The first visible symbol of growing income inequality. Tennis, boating, golf and sunbathing for some and the mines for the rest.
WaterGirl
@arguingwithsignposts: Yeah, I wanted to jump in right away when I read that comment, but I decided to read through the thread first in case the answer was revealed down thread.
My question was similar to yours: “Are you trying to be funny, and miserably failing, or are you just an asshole?”
Little Boots
this site cannot die this soon.
cornerstone? where is everyone?
dead existentialist
@Gravenstone: @Ruckus: @Corner Stone: Sorry to be a wet blanket. I dropped out of high school, spent about five years on the road, then worked a bunch of blue-collar jobs before deciding that my body wouldn’t last at that rate and went back to school in my 30s. Got an education degree (the easiest one besides journalism) because I thought I could make a contribution to society and have lived an austere life ever since. I’ve seen what the EdD’s of the world contribute, and it ain’t much other than adding bs. Sorry I don’t live up to your lofty expectations, but I’m kind of a beatnik/hippie. I work as a substitute teacher at a large urban school district, and I have a huge fan-base of little kids who have such sorry lives that they actually like me and look up to me. And, may I add, I’ve worked in academia and know it’s horrors.
I have taught every grade level from K-college freshmen. If I have any expertise, it’s in the field of education. And I’m only posting this comment ’cause I’m an idiot like youse guys.
ETA: I misspelled “from” in my original post.
arguingwithsignposts
@dead existentialist: So you are an asshole. Good to know. Go fuck yourself.
Corner Stone
@dead existentialist: So…from the time you left public school to the time you earned a degree?
And, uh, I actually don’t remember any of my actual teachers from elementary school. Much less a substitute teacher.
So, enjoy that admiration from your fan base! I guess.
Little Boots
@dead existentialist:
so what do you think is going on here?
Corner Stone
I don’t care what anyone says. I absolutely demanded Taken 2 be made.
Jim, Foolish Literalist and Fact Checker
@Baud:
The Lady Ann is deliberately trying to trick me into abandoning my Eeyore like cautious optimism and jump with both feet into giddyness.
@rikyrah:
Fuckin’ A. The affluent country club white suburbanites who dominate our political media should be ashamed. As Charlie Pierce said, it’s one thing for the youngsters to have a harder time hearing dog whistles, but Tom Brokaw has been a working journalist since the mid-60s.
ETA: Wiki tells me Uncle Brokaw was a CBS anchor in Atlanta in 1965, so… yeah.. he ought to have an ear for this stuff. Asshole.
Schlemizel
to those who may have missed the parts of my posts where I explain that I know quite well my gut feeling isn’t right let me just say that again.
There is a lot more I’d like to discuss about this topic but I won’t because it seems it might not be heard in the way I said it. People find there own way in life & there is no right way for everyone. However you got to where you are if you are happy and satisfied you done good
Corner Stone
@Schlemizel: I for one read and heard that. Just adding my thoughts on it.
Little Boots
@Corner Stone: ‘
and they’re appreciated, no doubt.
but still, you’re not omnes.
dead existentialist
@arguingwithsignposts: Well, as the kids say, “Takes one to know one”! Fuck you, too, compadre. (Now we can be buddies, amirite?)
Mnemosyne
@Schlemizel:
This is, I realize, pretty much only an UMC (upper-middle-class) problem, but a fair number of people in my generation (GenX) were told by their parents that their parents would only pay for college if they majored in what their parents wanted them to major in (usually business or engineering). A lot of them ended up with, say, a degree in environmental engineering and went on to write graphic novels, because that was what they had wanted to do all along but needed that financial support from their parents.
I was able to convince my dad to let me get a crazy stupid degree in film and, though it took me quite a while, I am at least working in entertainment now, which is more than I can say for the people whose parents made them get degrees they weren’t really interested in.
dead existentialist
@Corner Stone: 17 years that I consider a long summer break. Next question?
Oh fuck. Why would I want to keep beating this dead horse? It’s agreed that I’m an asshole, and I’ve never in my life denied that.
Mnemosyne
@dead existentialist:
So basically you and raven followed the same academic path of a long break between degrees, except that you’re totally a smart guy for doing it that way and he’s a stupid asshole for doing it the same way you did?
That’s a major load of self-hatred you’re carrying there, son.
Little Boots
we need john, or maybe doug.
we need somebody, here.
YoohooCthulhu
@Schlemizel:
First, Ph.D students in the sciences or engineering rarely pay for graduate school, they’re supported as research assistants or at least teaching assistants.
Second…eh, education is education. Most graduate programs are explicit about their programs not being specific job training.
Third….it cuts both ways. As you said, people rarely have a strong direction in life at 22-24, which is frequently when people are encouraged to enter graduate programs (particularly Ph.D programs, because they can take a long time).
Most Ph.Ds don’t “use their degree” because
a) there actually aren’t that many research positions, and they’re not always all that appealing unless you’re a superstar (especially in our current economy that underinvests in R&D), and
b) you can only really decide if you like a field by…doing it. And you’re often only aware of the career prospects in it once you’re in the field as well. So it’s pretty common for people to be trained and realize that maybe it isn’t their passion.
This is not actually a total loss, because Ph.D programs are usually good training for people to be generally logical and rigorous thinkers. But Ph.Ds aren’t some magical group that’s somehow isolated from the reality of other workers. In most fields, people face the choice of “up or out”–am I good enough at this to be a bigshot, should I stick around and be mediocre, or should I find something I’m better at? And people who get an advanced degree are more ambitious than most people and want to find something they can be really successful at. And there’s the additional fact that they aren’t always given a choice–academic salaries aren’t all that generous unless you’re a superstar, so financial reality more than anything else might force you to switch fields.
arguingwithsignposts
@dead existentialist: Not really. You condemn an entire class of people (Ed.D.’s) based on your own anecdotal evidence, and then when called on it, double down because – dammit, it’s my anecdotal evidence!
I’ve met plenty of Ph.D.’s who aren’t worth a damn, too. Ultimately, your point is shit, and reminds me too much of the J.D./Ph.D./M.D. pissing matches that – in the grand scheme of things – nobody gives a damn about but pricks who want to knock someone down a notch.
And your stupidity is evidenced by your suggestion that the education degree was the easiest one besides journalism. I can list several that are easier than either of those.
Generally, I have great respect for k-12 teachers because of the shit they put up with in our education system. You, not so much.
dead existentialist
@Mnemosyne: See dead@dead existentialist: horse comment.
dead existentialist
@arguingwithsignposts: List, please. Or fuck off.
Little Boots
cause it’s a whole love/hate thing, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWWMmxyKOR0
Mnemosyne
@Schlemizel:
Also, too — having a college degree has basically become a ticket that needs to be punched to prove that you’re middle-class enough to have an office job even though 90 percent of the entry-level jobs that currently require a college degree could easily be done by a reasonably bright high school graduate. So it turns into this ugly merry-go-round where a college degree is required to get a halfway decent job, but the cost of going to college keeps escalating, which keeps those jobs out of reach of a lot of people who could do them but lack the offical imprimatur of being middle-class.
Or something like that.Suffern Ace
Ok folks. Quit hating on Ed degrees…or loving on them. The problem are the kids with degrees in post structuralist engineering. Let’s direct the venom where it belongs.
Mnemosyne
@dead existentialist:
Hey, you’re the one who decided to declare raven an asshole for following the same academic path you did, not me.
Mark S.
Ed Kilgore looking at some House analysis:
It would just prove that Republicans need to get way more conservative! FIRE UP THE BASE
Little Boots
@Mark S.:
let us pray.
Little Boots
can we all love the band, though?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P202C3mm8g
Corner Stone
@dead existentialist: Did you at least get to surf a bunch?
arguingwithsignposts
@dead existentialist: From my experience, Communication Studies (as differentiated from journalism), General Education (the undecided degree), Christian Studies, and a few more that vary depending on the school which I won’t list because I don’t want a bunch of people who have those degrees slagging on me.
dead existentialist
@Corner Stone: Zing!
Midwestern pussy that I was, I steered clear of waves. I rode a wave of vehicles if that accounts for anything, which it shouldn’t.
Sherlock Hound
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
That is so WIN! Do remember to leave one eyeball vaporized for science.
Cmm
Just wanted to take a moment to say how much I love this blog. And am becoming increasingly fond of the commenters.
That is all.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist: Well, I’d have to say Restaurant Waiter would certainly teach you to read people and respond at the drop of a hat. And there are very few jobs where that’s not important. Like, we all have to deal with bosses, colleagues, and support staff. You’d better be able to deal with them pleasantly.
dead existentialist
@arguingwithsignposts: Communication Studies is journalism (I tried to go that route a bit when I did my Masters in English.) General Education is an undergrad “what are you gonna do eventually” sort of degree: you have to end up with a commitment before you get a degree. The others you mention may deserve derision or not, but I’ll tell you from personal experience (and I made a stab at getting a Masters in English (and failed) that an Education degree was a cake-walk for a lazy, fuck-nut like me. YMMV
Why am I still up and babbling on this thread? I have 4th graders to “educate’ tomorrow. Must be the scotch and Elvis Costello.
Yes. I am the asshole all the previous commenters have accused me of being. Oh well; the children will eventually pay. (That was a national debt joke for those of you who are too humorless to get it.)
Gerk! I’m drunk.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Mnemosyne:
Wow, that’s total parental suckage. You gotta watch your kid and support whatever he/she is good at*, not shove them into your niche.
* Hopefully not Robbery comma Armed.
Ruckus
@dead existentialist:
I stand by my original comment to you as nothing you’ve said since has helped your standing.
We all go through life at different rates and end up in sometimes interesting places and sometimes shitty. Sometimes interestingly shitty. Luck, timing, having opportunities, being in the right frame of mind and all that to take advantage of those opportunities. That you feel you took the easy way out and then rag on someone else because they took what sounds on the surface like a similar path says much more about your character or lack thereof than theirs. Good luck with the rest of your life, I’ll not waste another moment of mine like I just did.
Ruckus
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
There are lots of parents who have very strong ideas about what their progeny should end up like. I followed in my dad’s footsteps when push came to shove because I wanted to have some level of approval from my parents. Looking back I wish I had stood up and said no. But as the old proverb says wish in one hand shit in the other and see which fills up first. I am what I am.
I do really wish that more parents would support their kids to do whatever they want. Life would not necessarily be any better but there might be a little less hatred? in the world. And in some families girls have it much worse. Maybe not as much any more but 50yrs ago girls were supposed to get married and have kids. Period. Some wonderful, talented people have given up a lot for that.
Anne Laurie
@trollhattan:
You don’t speak Mass-dog-whistle. It is now part of the local GOP holy writ that Elizabeth ‘Fauxcahontas’ Warren is the birthmother of the “radical Occupy protest movement”, as part of her fiendish plot (hand-in-hand with That Black Guy in Our White House) to steal all Mitt Romney’s money and give it to the lesbians in Northampton (Rachel Maddow, represent!), the Portugese-speaking immigrants in Framingham, the Cambodian community in Lowell, and of course the Blah people who turned the Boston public housing projects from crime-ridden hellholes full of broken families and substance abuse into non-white crime-ridden hellholes full of broken families and substance abuse.
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
wrong thread
RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
“Well, I’d have to say Restaurant Waiter would certainly teach you to read people and respond at the drop of a hat. And there are very few jobs where that’s not important. Like, we all have to deal with bosses, colleagues, and support staff. You’d better be able to deal with them pleasantly.”
You got it right. People skills go a long way if you learn them early. If you don’t learn them, no matter what other training and experience you have everything will be harder. I learned how to listen politely and respond when I was trained by great waiters. Being an abrasive, confrontational jerk I picked up on my own later for select occasions.
Plus working for tips is close to pure capitalism. Do a good job and someone puts cash in your hand right now. Screw up and you just wasted your time for nothing. It trains you much faster than an annual review and a 5% raise.
Ruckus
@RossInDetroit, Rational Subjectivist:
The most useful people skills, yeah waiter would bring those out if you liked tips and or keeping your job.
Mine was a job that in my third week had to do a live TV interview and had no idea that was part of the job when I took it. It didn’t happen much but learning how not to stand there and go blank (or completely fucking stupid) when the light went on was a pretty good learning exp.