From twitter feed Egyptian Presidency @EgyPresidency 24m
“For the sake of #Egypt and for historical accuracy, let’s call what is happening by its real name: Military coup.” https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=618096081548153&set=a.522553531102409.121628.522537587770670&type=1&theater …
Twitter feed:Daniel Drezner @dandrezner 7m
Me: #headdesk RT @allahpundit: 12:03 p.m. Egypt in chaos as reports of coup swirl. Fox News: Zimmerman. CNN: Zimmerman. MSNBC: Zimmerman.
Twitter feed:Breaking News @BreakingNews 6m
Update: Egypt’s President Morsi still working at Republican Guard barracks in Cairo; unclear if he is free to leave, aide says – @Reuters
Quentin Sommerville @sommervillebbc 5m
BBC Arabic reports armed military vehicles now on the streets of Cairo
PeakVT
Well, I hope not many people die. (It’s probably too late for ‘nobody dies’.)
Ash Can
It was pretty obvious a military coup was on its way when the army issued its ultimatum. At this point, I’m not sure what’s worse for the Egyptian people — Morsi staying in power, or getting booted by the military.
raven
@PeakVT: Since abou8t 15 did last night, yes.
catclub
“Military coup underway in Cairo: Morsi and MB leaders arrested
DEBKA file – 4 minutes ago”
If you can’t trust DEBKA….
Alex S.
I think there’s the potential for a very, very bloody civil war. Also, I will go there and say that Hitler was also elected democratically at first.
Frankensteinbeck
Criminy. Okay, THIS is important. Good luck, Egyptian people.
ruemara
Shit just got real. We’ll see what happens.
Shakezula
Any bets on when McCain will call for U.S. intervention?
Morbo
Wouldn’t a military coup imply that the military was at one time not in charge?
catclub
@Morbo: Good point.
Citizen_X
Holy shit.
Villago Delenda Est
@Morbo:
The front man is fucking up. Time to change front man.
The Brotherhood was too busy working on getting those damn sluts under control and not paying enough attention to trivial shit like water, food, electricity.
Villago Delenda Est
@Shakezula:
Hmm, is last Sunday’s Meet the Press too soon?
Rosalita
well, that’s one way to put it…
Shakezula
@Villago Delenda Est: Did he?
Villago Delenda Est
@Rosalita:
Well, isn’t Snowden a “guest” of the Russian Federation right now?
Paul in KY
@Shakezula: I’ll take 5 July, in the morning.
Villago Delenda Est
@Shakezula:
No, but if he does, I’m sure Dancin’ Dave will give him a forum for expanding on his comments of later this afternoon.
different-church-lady
The world has come a long way — you didn’t used to get 48 hours warning before the coup happened.
NickT
@Rosalita:
We just have to connect the dots and dashes to read the Morsi code.
I suspect Egypt is going to end up like Pakistan – strong army, weak state, succession of more or less incompetent/unsatisfactory civilian leaders who get deposed when they annoy the army/people enough – as they will inevitably do, given what a mess the economy is.
Villago Delenda Est
@different-church-lady:
The Coupplotters (Dave Letterman’s mother’s neighbors) have fully leveraged the internet for their purposes.
Jay C
@different-church-lady:
You need the leadtime to make sure the cameras and bloggers are there to publicize it all.
Though in 2013, one would think 24 hours would be sufficient: oh well, it’s “Egyptian Time”….
NotMax
OT:
Linda Featheringill
I checked the live blog at Guardian and it seems that a coup is in process. The Brotherhood doesn’t like the idea very much. Tough.
The military COULD arrange elections, etc. right away but my crystal ball isn’t working right now so I can’t make any predictions.
bill d
It would nice for the U.S. and Egypt to have the same indepence day.
2nd time is a charm, fingers crossed, hope for safety and peace.
The Bobs
Updated timeline from al-arabiya:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2013/06/30/Live-from-Egypt-latest-developments-.html
NickT
@Linda Featheringill:
Has John McCain demanded we invade Russia yet? Clearly, we shall soon all be Egyptians now.
different-church-lady
@Jay C: I thought Twitter and iPhones made all that unnecessary.
different-church-lady
@bill d:
I don’t think we’ve got enough hamburger buns.
Violet
@The Bobs: From your link:
Hmmm…
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet:
Well, of course not. The Army does not want to be blamed for infrastructure fail. That’s what got Morsi into so much trouble.
Time to find a new front man.
Davis X. Machina
@Rosalita: I’m so old I remember 1968, when De Gaulle was the ‘guest’ of the French Army in Germany…
Amir Khalid
@Morbo:
True. What’s happening here, I think, is that the military is now exercising its veto over Egyptian politics, which it kept during the fall of Mubarak because, let’s face it, no one has the effective power to take that veto away.
While the military hasn’t sent in the tanks to arrest Morsi, so far, I don’t doubt that it will if he won’t step down. For those of us who don’t care to see military rule anywhere, it’s going to be an uncomfortable reminder of who really runs the show over there.
NickT
@Violet:
So there is a militant wing of the Salvation Army after all!
(Sorry, couldn’t resist an Austin Powers reference).
Seanly
Are the news channels still covering every minute of the Zimmerman trial? Coz that’s more important than a coup of an important middle eastern ally.
Are there any missing white woman stories on deck in case the Zimmerman trail goes on recess?
On a more seriouis note, this is important. I hope there is a minimum of bloodshed.
different-church-lady
@Violet: Junichi Tazawa is gonna wind up running the place, I can feel it.
Suffern ACE
@Villago Delenda Est: The way that Egypt works is that the generals and their co-hort own the electric company, and pretty much everyting else that is supposed to work. So front man is correct. I mean, Mubarak didn’t amass that $70 billion fortune on his public servant’s salary.
lafcolleen
@Alex S.: Hitler wasn’t democratically elected at first. When the Nazi Party was running in elections for national and state legislative offices, Hitler was never on their candidate slate. I think Goring was the top Nazi in the national parliament.
Hitler ran against von Hindenburg in the 1932 election (for President) but lost.
He was the leader of a party that did not have a majority of seats.
Due to chaotic political conditions (and attempts by conservatives to keep power out of the hands of popular parties), President von Hindenburg appointed chancellors that governed through the use of emergency decrees (the authority under these decrees flowed from Hindenburg to the chancellor).
Hitler was the third Chancellor that Hindenburg appointed using this authority.
Power was consolidated in the Chancellor’s office following the Reichstag fire and von Hindenburg’s death.
NickT
@different-church-lady:
I managed to misread Junichi Tazawa as Tunch – and the idea of the Feline Overlord adding Egypt to his portfolio made alarming sense.
NickT
@Suffern ACE:
Which is very similar to the army’s involvement in business and politics in Pakistan – partly because they are generally better educated and more capable of actually running things.
different-church-lady
@NickT: Come to think of it, your scenario is the more likely…
NickT
@different-church-lady:
Can’t you just see the construction of an enormous white sphinx with very recognizable features being one of the first policies of the new regime?
Violet
From the same link as previous comment:
different-church-lady
@NickT: Archeological evidence supports the theory the Sphinx was originally covered in a tremendous amount of white fur.
NickT
@different-church-lady:
We are all working for Furry Pharoah now.
Alex S.
@lafcolleen:
It’s difficult. Yes, Hindenburg appointed Hitler like some of the chancellors before him, but then there were elections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933
Hitler’s party won but had to form a coalition. That’s a legit way to get elected.
Shakezula
@Violet: Check behind the sofa cushions?
schrodinger's cat
@NickT: Invading Russia didn’t work out well for you know who.
NickT
@schrodinger’s cat:
Nor did invading Egypt, come to think of it.
schrodinger's cat
@different-church-lady: Ancient Tunch?
different-church-lady
@schrodinger’s cat:
Ed Snowden?
NickT
@Shakezula:
“The military have reported that former President Mursi accidentally garrotted himself while tying his shoes”.
Jasmine Bleach
@schrodinger’s cat:
Ahh. One of the classic blunders . . .
NickT
@schrodinger’s cat:
Tutankhtunchun.
different-church-lady
@Violet:
Did you check Morales’ plane yet?
Soonergrunt
Breaking News @BreakingNews 4m
Armored vehicles seem outside Cairo University in Egypt – @AJELive; follow latest from Egypt: http://bit.ly/lqA1NG
Suffern ACE
@NickT: Someone building a parking garage in Karachi and the army not getting a cut of it is a sample of a Pakistani national security threat.
catclub
@NickT: Yeah, but during the invasion Fourier developed Fourier analysis for heat diffusion problems. Overall, a plus.
schrodinger's cat
@NickT: FTW!
NickT
@catclub:
More than we got out of Iraq or Afghanistan, that’s for sure.
Cygil
@lafcolleen: This is the standard line of dissembling designed to alibi the German people from responsibility for Hitler, but it’s all disingenuous.
The Nazis made massive gains in the election of July 1932 and became the single biggest seat-holder in the Reichstag. There was never any outright governing majority throughout this chaotic period in German politics, but if anyone could be said to have legitimacy to govern, it was the Nazis once they formed a coaltion with the equally anti-semitic German National People’s party. This coalition had 45% of the seats after the July election, and 41% in the November election, both far larger than any opposition voting block.
It was thus perfectly reasonable for Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as Chancellor. Appointing Hitler was far more democratic than appointing anyone else.
If Hitler wasn’t democratically elected, no leader of a Coalition government was ever elected. For example, the British Prime Minister David Cameron is not elected according to this ideology.
You can quibble about the minutiae of the system (the possibility of stalemates where no-one has an outright majority is an important defect of parliamentary systems like this, which is why I support US presidential style elections for the chief executive) but by a reasonable functional definition, the German people did indeed elect Hitler as chancellor. You don’t give Nazis and a party that might best be described as “moderate” Nazis a plurality vastly bigger than any other coalition and then deny responsibility when the coalition takes power.
scav
@NickT: & @schrodinger’s cat: yes, but somehow with a lingering aftertaste of 80’s pop . . .
M31
@NickT:
“National Salvation Front”?
Whatever happened to the National Front for Salvation?
NickT
@M31:
Splitters. They never last.
Soonergrunt
OK, props where props are due:
Good one. RT @wikileaks: Edward Snowden should seek asylum in only place truly beyond the reach of US law enforcement. Wall Street. #snowden
Retweeted by EM Simpson
Soonergrunt
Breaking News @BreakingNews 38s
Communication with Egypt’s President Morsi has been cut off as reported military coup continues – @NBCNews
NickT
Someone’s feeling their oats:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/assads-government-says-morsi-should-resign-for-sake
Yatsuno
@NickT: Irony, she dedded, sir.
Dexter
@NickT: Nice trolling by Assad.
catclub
@NickT: And Assad can say “If we had 14 million in the streets, I would have resigned for the good of the country, just as Morsi should.”, with an almost straight face.
NickT
@Dexter:
I hear he’s been offered the chair opposite Sarah Palin on a new Fox show.
Citizen_X
@Dexter: Next Putin is going to urge Morsi to respect human rights.
gbear
Heaven knows Morsi is miserable now.
lafcolleen
@Cygil:
Not that I disagree with your larger points about the popularity of the Nazi Party, but I was focused on the flat assertion that Hitler was ‘democratically elected.’ Hitler was not elected to anything prior to his appointment. You might respond that the fact is unimportant, but I am not arguing if it is important.
Did he come to be Chancellor through a democratic process? Well – does using emergency decree powers to appoint the leader of the largest party count?
I am not a historian – just an interested reader and you’ve laid out an argument that the answer is yes. But it doesn’t refute the much more focused point I was making.
Hitler’s assumption of the Chancellorship (and his subsequent consolidation of power) was widely popular. But I’ve always been more interested (and know more about) how the political elites connived to tear down the Weimar Republic and applauded all the actions the Hitler took to complete the dismantling of liberal democracy.
S. cerevisiae
Along with Pakistan, doesn’t the military of Turkey also hold an effective veto power if the gov’t gets out of line? I thought I read that somewhere but those with better knowledge can correct me.
NickT
@S. cerevisiae:
It used to, certainly.
Tone in DC
@Citizen_X:
See now… that’s just wrong. You’re pretty much abusing irony at this point, dude.
Penus
@gbear:
I mean, a year ago, he was looking for a job. And then he found a job.
Dolly Llama
@Penus: @gbear: Caligula would have blushed.
Just Some Fuckhead
The situation in Egypt looks very serious. Has Sully changed the color of his blog yet?
NickT
@Just Some Fuckhead:
He’s probably still working out what a modest Burkean nitwit would do by throwing darts at the latest David Brooks column.
Villago Delenda Est
Sorry, but we’re past the traditional date for an invasion of Russia. Perhaps next year.
Villago Delenda Est
@Seanly:
Hey! It’s shark season! Don’t leave them out!
quannlace
Surprised? Cast your mind back and remember the 600 pound gorilla that was the OJ Simpson trial. From the first gavel to the verdict, nothing else existed on cable news. Nothing.
Penus
@Dolly Llama:
I wonder if anyone has an opening FOR A BACK SCRUBBA…
Elie
Its probably not the best for the fledgeling democracy.. that said, Morsi was not seemingly open to a negotiated accomodation of the opposition. Democracy is a fragile thing and as we demonstrated over and over, perhaps not the easiest instinct for humans. Still, its going to be hard to keep this genie in the bottle even after someone new is elected. Resorting to serial revolutions is not the way to build strength in a democracy… “My way or the highway” attitudes from elected leaders also is not the path to success —
Another Halocene Human
In my opinion, a regime that ignored the will of the people, allowed security forces to rape female protestors, and failed to provide basic services is one that had to go.
NickT
@Another Halocene Human:
I am just waiting for Lanny Davis to announce that he’s been hired by Morsi as a public relations adviser.
Xantar
AP reporting that the Egyptian military chief announced that Morsi has been replaced by the Chief Justice. Looks like it’s a done deal.
Violet
Looks like Morsi is out according to Guardian liveblog.
JPL
@Violet: It’s not a coup because that’s what anti-Morsi folk told the news.
Maybe Snowden can go to Egypt and then we could have one thread all night long.
fuckwit
@lafcolleen: I’m not a historian either, but it’s pretty obvious what happened: there was an economic disaster, and people were pissed off, and angry, eager to blame anyone and everyone, and desperate for relief and for some sense of national pride and purpose. There was chaos and misery and disorder, and people craved order.
And the Nazis gave it to them in spades.
So did Napoleon. So did… the aftermath of economic misery and anarchy everywhere in time and all over the planet.
This is why I don’t cheer on economic or environmental collapse. If modern Western society falls, what will replace it? It’s very likely to be totalitarian fundamentalism of some kind of another. Or, most likely, competing totalitarian fundamentalisms all trying to kill each other off. Hell on earth.
The middle ground is the hardest line to walk of all. Democracy is an inherently unstable thing. Getting any kind of longevity out of it is not easy.
Another Halocene Human
@Villago Delenda Est: The Brotherhood was too busy working on getting those damn sluts under control and not paying enough attention to trivial shit like water, food, electricity.
Sounds like some people I know.
NickT
@JPL:
If he shacked up with Glenn Greenwald in Cairo.. oh the possibilities…
Another Halocene Human
@NickT: as they will inevitably do, given what a mess the economy is
Any country dependent on tourism that makes the tourists scared…
I was going to say something about civil violence and talibangelicals, but Florida has both (plus mosquitoes! now featuring an invasion of malarial Egyptian ones, trufax! skeered yet?) and yet the punters keep on coming. Although actually the biggest engine to Florida’s economy is agriculture. If tourism really was #1 they wouldn’t be letting Big Agra completely fuck the springs, the water table, the rivers, river fishing, the gulf, aquaculture, etc. And don’t forget the salt water backing into coastal communities (full of timeshares/condos/hotels!!) because too much fresh water got sucked down by sod farms and cattle ranching operations.
The gov’t tried to hook Florida on goats. Lord knows our West Indian immigrants will eat them (not to mention yours truly, goat milk too… oh tasty tasty goat cheese). But the lure of beefbuxxx was too great.
Back to tourism, apparently having one of the highest per capita murder rates in the US is not deterring the tourists. However, Florida doesn’t have suicide squads trying to blow up tourists, probably because everybody here hates DeVeLoPeRs more but the D-bags are signing their paychecks.
Elie
While I agree that Morsi and the Brotherhood didn’t understand the nature of representative governance, what follows his ouster is not necessarily going to be good. The question is how to have candidates that can truly be sensitive to larger Egyptian needs and not reflect a faction. Also what happens if the next elected leader can’t make things right either, and making things right is going to be a tall order in what seems to be a highly factionalized population with its basic institutions in jeopardy. Somewhere along the line, the people have to allow themselves to be governed through an elected leader and not to get rid of him without following an electoral process when times get rough. Its going to be rough for a while and its obviously going to scare regional leaders to who knows what “safeguards” in their own countries….
Herbal Infusion Bagger
Funny, because when I visited Egypt twenty years ago the MB was much more popular than the government *because* the MB was able to distribute food and blankets effectively after the big 1992 Cairo earthquake, wheras the government might as well have had Michael Brown handling their effort.
Anoniminous
Technically a pronunciamiento: a group of military officers publicly declare their opposition to the current government.
Taking the extra-legal shenanigans Morsi was up to, it’s more a counter-coup.
catclub
@Herbal Infusion Bagger: the MB was able to distribute food and blankets effectively after the big 1992 Cairo earthquake
I can’t imagine the military or Mubarak dead enders sabotaging Morsi’s efforts at good governance.
liberal
@Soonergrunt:
LOL.
patroclus
I’m not sure what to think about this until Dear Leader Greenwald and Edward “Paul Revere” Snowden weigh in.
Mnemosyne
@catclub:
Morsi launched a series of austerity measures that failed just as miserably in Egypt as they did everywhere else austerity was tried.
I’m sure the dead-enders didn’t help, but it seems like Morsi managed to shoot himself in the foot as well.
burnspbesq
@patroclus:
WWGD?
Jeff(the other one)
@Herbal Infusion Bagger: What a difference 20 years will make, and being in power as opposed to being a shadow government.
There really is nothing good going to come of this.
Morsi was a theocrat pure and simple, who misread his victory as a mandate to turn Egypt into an Islamic theocracy.
The military may be making good sounds now, but just wait a while and the blood will flow.
Jon Stewart’s friend Bassoun better high tail it out of Cairo right now, because I think that the new ruler will have even less of a sense of humor than Morsi
moonbat
Look, the U.S. media has really missed the boat on this one because they basically stopped paying attention to Egypt after last year’s elections. Morsi and the MB were packing the upper house of the parliament with Islamists, they snuck in a constitution which laid the framework for an Islamic state, and Morsi took it upon himself to decide which judges were worthy of holding office and getting rid of those he didn’t like. Radical imams were filling the airwaves with views popular eight centuries ago. People felt like Egypt was sliding toward a radical Islamic state and that is not how most Egyptians see themselves or their country and it certainly was not the goal of the 2011 revolution.
So the June 30 rebellion wasn’t just an economic issue, or a “things aren’t moving fast enough” issue or the military wants to take over issue. It was that Morsi was taking the country in a direction most Egyptians didn’t want to go. I mean, people are celebrating this in conservative Upper Egyptian cities like Luxor. People see this as a national identity issue.
Yes, we’d better hope that whoever takes over in the interim can keep a lid on violence from and toward MB supporters and make a real effort to get the economy back on track, but what they had better do right quick is form an inclusive government where all interests are represented.
burnspbesq
Ironically, the only person all the factions in Egypt like at the moment is an American: Bob Bradley, who has the national soccer team on the verge of qualifying for the World Cup for the first time in 24 years.
Another Halocene Human
@lafcolleen: And there’s evidence that the Nazi Party blackmailed von Hindenberg (for one thing, he wasn’t born a von, and I think that was the kernel of the nut there) to make Hitler Reichskanzler. It’s well known that Hindenberg had a personal antipathy for the man.
Oops, I had thought Hitler had won 15% of the vote but actually it was 36%, big difference. (Still lost by a landslide by any measure.) He actually managed to fool 9% non-27%ers with his bullshit I’ll Buy You A Car (blame the j000s) platform. In a way more because how many US elections have a real Communist on the ticket? I suspect that tranche among US citizens are mostly non-participants.
Another Halocene Human
@Alex S.: Hitler’s party won but had to form a coalition. That’s a legit way to get elected.
Instigating street violence to intimidate voters is hardly legitimate in my book.
jayboat
@burnspbesq:
convergence. sometimes, the push comes from a most unexpected direction…
Another Halocene Human
oops, guess I typed nasty party too many times. FYWP
Another Halocene Human
@Cygil: FYWP ate my detailed reply, but this is wrong.
You are ignoring the conditions on the ground, which is easy to do from this far remove, but there are very good reasons that it was perceived as a coup at the time.
In fact, the international community refused to recognize the new government. The first to give recognition was Pius IX, hence his controversial legacy.
The reactionary judiciary is the factor most overlook in the development of the terror state.
Another Halocene Human
@Penus: I wonder if anyone has an opening FOR A BACK SCRUBBA…
Call a CRACK BUBBA.
TenguPhule
@Herbal Infusion Bagger: Once they took power, they no longer concerned themselves with keeping goodwill. Boots to the head and sticks to the back are the new face of the MB.
S. cerevisiae
Are the wingnuts expecting us to invade Moscow? Generally not a good idea.