(Pat Oliphant via GoComics.com)
As advised by multiple commentors, I missed this evening’s update. Per the Guardian:
White House insists James Clapper will not lead NSA surveillance review
Officials stress director of national intelligence will have limited role after Obama seemed to imply Clapper would head panel
The White House has moved to dampen controversy over the role of the director of national intelligence James Clapper in a panel reviewing NSA surveillance, insisting that he would neither lead it nor choose the members.Statements by Barack Obama and Clapper on Monday night were widely interpreted as the director of national intelligence being placed in charge of the inquiry, which the president had announced on Friday would be “independent”.
The apparent involvement of Clapper, who has admitted lying to Congress over NSA surveillance of US citizens, provoked a backlash, with critics accusing the president of putting a fox in charge of the hen house.
But the White House national security council insisted on Tuesday that Clapper’s role would be more limited…
***********
Of course, he already has, according to Timothy B. Lee at the Washington Post:
The man who misled Congress on spying will pick Obama’s intelligence review panel
On Friday, President Obama promised to appoint an “independent group” of “outside experts” to review the government’s surveillance programs.Today, the president formally ordered the formation of this group, giving us a sense for just how independent the group would be. The announcement doesn’t inspire confidence that the president is interested in truly independent scrutiny of the nation’s surveillance programs.
The panel will be chosen by, and report to, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Clapper famously answered “no sir” when Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked whether the NSA collects information about millions of Americans. Clapper has since conceded that this answer was “clearly erroneous.”
And there are other signs that the group won’t turn out quite the way the president described it on Friday. Friday’s speech talked about the need for input from outside experts with independent points of view. The president made no mention of the need for outsiders or independent viewpoints in his memo to Clapper.
The stated mission of the group has also shifted….
More at the link.
Bonus historical fillip — the DFHs at Foreign Policy just announced an Exclusive: After Multiple Denials, CIA Admits to Snooping on Noam Chomsky. Which comes as a surprise to no one — especially Professor Chomsky — but, hey, the feds have been stalwartly cherishing that lie for so long it’s aged from “vintage” into “antique”. (Also, the bruhaha in the comments section between the statists and the libertarians should be preserved in a time capsule for future anthropologists.)
Ted & Hellen
BOTSPLAINERS TO THE BARRICADES!
Ted & Hellen
Barry-cades?
tofubo
if only we elected this guy president:
“…And if someone wants to know why their own government has decided to go on a fishing expedition through every personal record or private document – through library books they’ve read and phone calls they’ve made – this legislation gives people no rights to appeal the need for such a search in a court of law. No judge will hear their plea, no jury will hear their case. This is just plain wrong.Giving law enforcement the tools they need to investigate suspicious activity is one thing – and it’s the right thing – but doing it without any real oversight seriously jeopardizes the rights of all Americans and the ideals America stands for.”
http://obamaspeeches.com/041-The-PATRIOT-Act-Obama-Speech.htm
Carolinus
@Anne Laurie:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/13/4618944/white-house-says-intelligence-chief-james-clapper-wont-lead-nsa-review
askew
@Carolinus:
Oh, so Balloon Juice’s resident PUMA is lying about Obama again? Big shocker. Guess she won’t pull this post either.
Howard Beale IV
Welcome to the Hotel California-you can check out any time you like–but you can never leave.
Mnemosyne
@Carolinus:
Guardian reporting the same.
But I guess nothing can get in the way of a fact-free freakout.
Steeplejack
@Anne Laurie:
brouhaha
Howard Beale IV
‘Vintage’ is by far the favorite sales word among the Craigslist touts. Sometimes its very accurate (think of a pristine condition re-capped Pioneer SX-1250 receiver/boat anchor), other times it means ‘old’ (Sansui, Fisher, Sherwoord, et al.)
max
(Also, the bruhaha in the comments section between the statists and the libertarians should be preserved in a time capsule for future anthropologists.)
Was there a bruhaha? I thought there was the group trying to come up with new arguments that define Snowden’s unquenchable evil (c.f. Thomas L. Friedman, currently arguing in the NYT that if Snowden would just come back and allow himself to be thrown in the Hole for 7, maybe 8 decades, that would make up for leaking about the assorted illegal activities the permanent security state has been getting up to.) and an motley assortment of characters.
The stated mission of the group has also shifted….
Yes, Clapper appears to have shifted the (ostensible?) purpose of the group (staffed up with contractors on the payroll) from examining the nature of the NSA’s activities (?) to one designed to figure out how to make sure
they don’t get caughtno one leaks again (as in the laughable notion of firing 90% of the sysadmins*). Also, something about ‘public trust’ which apparently will involve making some attractive posters for the school hallways or something like that. Lots of glitter. Maybe an interview with Oprah about how abused their feelings are. A big group hug. That sort of thing.Of course, the rewrite of the release of the weekend does rather indicate that the permanent security state is a law until itself and the political parts of the administration have been just bystanders all along, which, given that there are a trio of Bushies out front (Clapper, Alexander and Holden) doing the desperate panting, shouldn’t be a surprise.
max
[‘Now would be an excellent time to rerun Seven Days In May.’]
* They could follow up this extremely smart suggestion by sacking all the line techs, cryptoanalysts, translators and all the other technical personnel and replacing them will old loyal generals who wouldn’t leak. And even if they did leak, they don’t understand this shit anyways, so it would all be incoherent gibberish. Maybe bring in Joe Lieberman to help. An *excellent* plan!
chopper
@Carolinus:
OBOT!!!
Mnemosyne
So I accidentally left my enchiladas in the oven too long and the cheese is more “crunchy” than “melted.” They should still be edible, right? Where’s jeffreyw when I need him?
? Martin
@Ted & Hellen:
@Carolinus:
So, in 4 comments this got shot down. Why do I think there won’t be any greater caution or introspection in the next round of accusations?
Mandalay
@Carolinus: That’s a good catch that you highlighted in bold, but this really is a massive last minute U-turn from the Administration.
However, the whole thing still stinks. The other two paragraphs you posted are still riddled with bullshit….
WTF? And why was Clapper’s involvement even considered? The maggot should have been fired several weeks ago.
Howard Beale IV
And for those who use Gmail as their primary email system-no privacy for you.
(Then again, anybody using email in today’s world for anything sensitive is taking serious risks that a decade ago were just the rantings of Seroquel-addled psychotic-who knew they were right all along?)
askew
@? Martin:
Because Anne Laurie has a pathological hatred for Obama and jumps on any excuse to attack him?
Mandalay
@? Martin:
Hardly “shot down”. The Administration has done a U-turn this evening, and the odious Clapper is still involved, and the issue of why his involvement was ever considered remains.
But AL should post an update to reflect the latest news.
Felonius Monk
More smoke and mirrors. Final report will be classified, but the part that will be available for public consumption will say everything is cool, we just can’t tell you details. You’ll have to trust us. By the time it is released public apathy over the security state will be back in play anyway.
Ted & Hellen
@? Martin:
Do you believe everything the white house tells us to cover its own ass?
Never mind…
chopper
@Mandalay:
from the story:
they’ll have access to classified info, so they need a once-over.
Ted & Hellen
Yes, A PANEL HAS BEEN FORMED!
All is well comrades…move along.
Chris
Bugging Noam Chomsky, LOL. What are they hoping to find? Proof of his secret ties to Ayatollah Khamenei? And if he has such ties, exactly what national security secrets do they think Noam Chomsky would be in a position to reveal?
TheMightyTrowel
@Mnemosyne: crunchy cheese is the best cheese. it will be even tastier. but I also like burnt toast so YMMV
Spaghetti Lee
@Chris:
They were hoping to find the location of those colorless green ideas and whether their furious sleeping was a threat to American security.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Crunchy cheese won’t hurt you, I used to use that for taco shells.
Suffern ACE
@Chris: Doesn’t he work at MIT? I’m sure there’s some secret engineering science going on there that the Iranians would want. Or maybe the solution to an answer equation on a calculus test that has been bothering them since their first year of college.
Miz Conception
The bigger the fuss that’s made about this story, the less I find myself caring about it.
Everyone’s Hair On Fire just makes the whole world bald.
Mnemosyne
@TheMightyTrowel:
@BillinGlendaleCA:
All is well and the enchiladas are perfectly edible. I used 2% milk cheese rather than full-fat, which does seem to move from “melted” to “crunchy” much more quickly than regular cheese.
chopper
so the WH ordered the DNI to establish a review group, and says the former will select the members.
WORSE THAN WATERGATE!
Belafon
@Howard Beale IV: Then again, as Charles Johnson points out: When GMail was started, it was pretty clearly stated that they would scan your emails to do ad targeting. I actually remember that when they created it.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
dogg, crunchy cheese is the best kind.
you’re like the dude who invented wine a long time back. “hey, i left this juice out too long and it tastes kind of awesome. is it still good?’
Mandalay
@chopper:
Yes, I saw that, but it looks like a lame face saving excuse from the Administration. Is there really nobody in all of our government’s security services except Clapper who can handle that?
Clapper – of all people – should not be involved with that panel at all.
Spaghetti Lee
@Miz Conception:
Everyone’s Hair On Fire just makes the whole world bald.
I love it.
sparky
@Spaghetti Lee: Ha ha! You definitely need to go to grad school; you’ll be a huge hit.
chopper
@Mandalay:
i don’t think the WH intends clapper to personally run the background checks on these people, no.
chopper
@Chris:
don’t tell me – the secret code phrase told to whoever has the rubix cube is…wait for it…CELLAR DOOR.
duh duh duuuuuuun
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
G doesn’t like the cheese on his pizza crunchy (I do), so I guess I’ve gotten out of the habit.
As far as “how foods were invented,” worcestershire sauce is probably my favorite (scroll down to #1 on the list).
Dead Ernest
@Mnemosyne:
Having given your enchiladas a ‘once-over’ (emphasis on the ‘over’ I suppose), all you have to do is change your expectations.
Open, or convince, yourself that you didn’t want ‘creamy’ but actually wanted ‘crunchy’ and you’ll find yourself Secure, Safe, and Contended with how its turned out.
…now what were the others in this thread discussing? I think maybe pretty much the same thing. All depends on what ‘once-over’ means I reckon.
tofubo
@? Martin:
as said by Caitlin Hayden, Spokesperson at the National Security Council
1st rule of fight club, never trust what the NSA says
2nd rule of fight club, never trust what some bloke is trying to dissuade your argument by quoting the spokes-liar of the NSA
Mandalay
@chopper:
Not worse than Watergate, but an incredibly inept blunder by the Administration.
A bit like putting Michael “heckuva job” Brown in charge of reviewing procedures for handling natural disasters.
Mnemosyne
@tofubo:
Then it’s a good thing she’s the spokesperson for the NSC, not the NSA.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I personally think Clapper should be fired if not prosecuted, and I am disappointed in Obama that he hasn’t instituted greater checks and balances (and also disappointed in Congress but Congress sucks and has for too long) but sometimes the self-righteous histrionics (“libertarians vs statists” “dead-enders!) just fucking wears me out.
chopper
@Mandalay:
totally, it’s just like with Bush. tell me more! (bats eyelashes)
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie:
From your link:
Our government: keeping us safe, but being held accountable.
If you made this shit up, nobody would believe it. Fucking clowns.
Belafon
@Mandalay: Except it’s the White House will be choosing the members. That would be more like Bush picking the group doing the review. OK, it would be exactly like Bush picking the group to do the review.
Anne Laurie
@askew: Nope, but I did update. Gotta admire how far White House communications have improved since the days of Ron Ziegler!
Howard Beale IV
@max: Honeypots can be such a bitch.
Klare
So when they scan my gmail accounts do you think it will count for me that half my mail is from the Democratic Party? Because that is as subversive as I get. Everything else is pretty work related, quite dry. I hate to disappoint them.
Howard Beale IV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ollie North set the pattern for Obstruction of Congress-namely, if you’re part of the in-command power structure, expect an indictment, but a later commutation/reversal.
Obstruction of Congress is a toothless threat, which fits their current mode of operation-I’m surprised that they can actually find their asses with both hands.
Yatsuno
@Mnemosyne: I personally like them that way. As long as they’re not charcoal they should be fine.
Oh and HAPPY BIRFDAY SAMKITTEH!! Can’t believe he’s 4 already!
eemom
@chopper:
Afghanistan Bananastan.
Anyone besides me old enough to get that wins……something.
Carolinus
@Mandalay:
Meh, this sort of thing is inevitable when you have folks like WaPo’s Tim Lee chasing page hits from the anti-govt/anti-secrecy crowd on both the left and the right (an odd alliance which will evaporate the moment the Right is back in power and they cast the anti-secrecy advocates as traitors once again). He’s essentially fisking every speech and gov’t document looking for something to spin as a grand conspiracy or betrayl, not even bothering to request a gov’t response before publishing. He’s happy and WaPo is happy, as all the traffic already came through before he got around to issuing his half-hearted correction:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/12/the-man-who-misled-congress-on-spying-will-pick-obamas-intelligence-review-panel/
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: They got the story(ies) of the ‘French Dip Sandwich’ right. I’ve had Cole’s and Philippe’s, Philippe’s is much better and I always pick up some extra mustard while I’m there.
Howard Beale IV
@Belafon: And that’s one of many reasons why I don’t use Gmail, Twitter and Facebook, and another reason why I run my own server vs. a third-party provider
With Snowden’s water torture releases out of the Guardian, it’s just making a bad situation worse-the ironic thing is, the tech companies set up their TOS without truly realizing what they were signing themselves up for-namely, being the bitches of whatever agency throws them a NSL or its equivalent that muzzles them-funny how many of them were stone quiet when the PATRIOT ACt was passed, and why they are now trying to do serious Nuremburg-level damage control,
Just one leeetle problem-the cow has escaped after the barn doors were closed.
.
Mnemosyne
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Last time I was on jury duty downtown, I took the Metrolink train from Glendale (easier than driving). I bought a sandwich from Phillippe’s to take home with me one night.
It didn’t even make it to the Glendale station.
(For non-Angelenos, the Glendale station is the very first stop after downtown.)
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Cole’s is also downtown in the old PE(Pacific Electric/Santa Fe) building at 6th and Main.
ETA: Unlike Philippe’s, Cole’s doesn’t sell mustard. Too bad, it’d be a great gift for our BlogHost.
Mandalay
@Carolinus:
Nonsense. This is nothing to do with media (mis)reporting. From your link, this is what Obama wrote to Clapper yesterday:
And this is what an NSC spokesperson said today:
Yesterday Obama said that Clapper was picking the panel, but today the White House is picking the panel instead. The press is just reporting what it is being told by the Administration, as the story changes.
Miz Conception
@Spaghetti Lee:
LOL, I don’t visit Kos much any more but I spent the evening pointing & laughing in the diaries about how the government is supposedly paying people to post there and down-rate the comments of SnowWald/GreenDen supporters. And they can tell this because the trolls mostly knock off at 5PM.
As you would, if you were an NSA sockpuppet.
Violet
@Dead Ernest: I think you asked me what antibiotic I was on in a thread a few days ago. I’m on rifaximin.
FlipYrWhig
I guess a lot of anthropologists specialize in collapsed civilizations and arcane rituals of dominance.
burnspbesq
@max:
Just hold yer gad-damn horses until we see who’s on the panel, willya?
burnspbesq
@? Martin:
Cynic.
FlipYrWhig
@Mandalay: Actually, establishing a group doesn’t necessarily mean picking the members of that group. It could be that for bureaucratic purposes the president has to ask someone else to create a group, and only then fill that group that someone else technically made with people he separately selects. I don’t know about this particular case, but I’ve seen that sort of thing in complex bureaucracies, because it has to do with turf and office politics.
FlipYrWhig
@burnspbesq: Anyone on the panel clearly doesn’t belong on the panel, because the only kind of person who would accept the invitation obviously can’t be trusted.
Mnemosyne
@Mandalay:
I think you’re reading more into the formal language of a Presidential Memorandum (yes, it’s an actual thing) than is really there. When the president directs the Secretary of State to see if Somalia should get a waiver from the Child Soldiers Prevention Act, do you really think that John Kerry is going to take care of that personally?
Suzanne
@Yatsuno: DOOD. FOUR?! We should betrothe him to Mia Mousie. No Young Republicans for my girls.
I have a feeling that Noam Chomsky is laughing his ass off. It was probably full of subversive, radical activities like “went to grocery store” and “had a beer”.
burnspbesq
@Mnemosyne:
No surprise. Philippe’s is God’s Own French Dip Joint.
Damn you, now you’ve got me jonesing for one. Or a pastrami on rye from Langers, which is better than Carnegie or Stage and fuck any of you Noo Yawkas who are too damn pig-headed to admit it.
Carolinus
@Mandalay:
The Director of National Intelligence is being tasked with setting up the secure infrastructure by which this new group can access the classified information they will be reviewing. Nowhere does it say anything about him hand-picking the membership. That’s how Lee interpreted it, but he could have cleared it up before publishing if he had bothered to request an administration comment.
burnspbesq
@FlipYrWhig:
Did you pay royalties to Steely Dan for that use of pretzel logic?
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Chomsky has been an official Enemy of the State since at least Vietnam, so I’m neither surprised that the CIA started a file on him, nor surprised that they gave up after a while and destroyed it as pointless long enough ago to make it a pain for some poor CIA staffer to try and track the records down to see if one ever existed.
burnspbesq
@Suzanne:
I’m outraged that scarce CIA resources were used to spy on a boring, ineffectual old coot.
Roy G.
I’m still agog at the crickets around Obama pulling the ol’ Friday afternoon presser to bury this. I’ll believe in the watchdog panel when Bruce Scheier is appointed to lead it.
I think a lot of people need to come to grips about the two faces of Obama, especially the one that says ‘yessir’ to the powers that sanction the James Clappers and Timmy Geithners wrecking our country for the benefit of the 1%.
Mandalay
@FlipYrWhig:
Agreed. Regardless of any public statements, the panel could actually be picked by Obama, Clapper or FSM. But you still have to scratch your head and wonder why Obama told Clapper yesterday “I am directing you to establish a Review Group on Intelligence and Communications Technologies”. That certainly gave the appearance that Clapper would be running the show.
My guess is that the there was a backlash from the House and Senate intelligence committees on that idea.
Suzanne
@burnspbesq: I’m sure the CIA’s resources aren’t scarce.
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, but he was never dangerous. That file had to have been boring as fuck.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roy G.: your agog reflex is awfully sensitive.
Mandalay
@burnspbesq:
The CIA spied on you as well? I understand your outrage.
burnspbesq
@Roy G.:
And what, in your view would be the value of having a self-proclaimed computer-security expert chair a task force whose mission is primarily legal?
I’d like Marty Lederman. I’d settle for Jack Goldsmith.
burnspbesq
@Mandalay:
That the best you can do?
FlipYrWhig
@Mandalay: my guess is that it’s boilerplate language and that anything involving the NSA has to be initiated by a memo to its director.
@burnspbesq: I was thinking Groucho Marx, but 6 of one, etc.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m still agog about the last scandal I didn’t quite understand!
Suffern ACE
@burnspbesq: I was hoping I would get chosen. I’m actually not an expert, but I’m a good listener. Also, if they were worried about me leaking anything, they wouldn’t have to worry. it has been proven quite frequently in the Suffern ACE household that folks do not listen to me. I could spout off details all afternoon and no one would bother to even quote me.
Anybodybuther2016
@Roy G.:
I’m fresh out of crickets how bout a yawn? oh and Hilary will never be president.
lol chikinburd
Amir Khalid
@eemom:
Goshdarn it. I remember a heist movie starring Robert Redford, but not its title.
Mnemosyne
Since this is pretty much an open thread anyway …
I finally got fed up with my Weight Watchers/Philips activity monitor because it never seemed to give me any data I could actually work with other than telling me if I had gotten activity points or not. So after doing a lot of research on the pros and cons, I spent 100 bucks on a Fitbit Flex, which is basically a pedometer you wear on your wrist. (The WW one was supposed to be worn on your belt or your bra, so I was constantly forgetting to put it on.)
So far, I’m definitely liking the Flex better. It told me that I was 775 steps short of my daily 10,000, so I was able to do a quick walk down the block to get those in. Definitely better than the mysterious “you need more activity” I was getting from the previous one.
Mandalay
@Roy G.:
You lost me there. I’m not an admirer of Clapper, but how is he “wrecking our country for the benefit of the 1%”? Even if he wants to, I’m pretty sure he lacks the ability and talent to pull it off.
Anne Laurie
@Amir Khalid: The Hot Rock. The novel, by Donald Westlake, was even funnier than the movie. (The phrase was actually “Afghanistan banana stand“, and the book appeared in the late 1960s/eary 1970s, a time when that nation very very seldom crossed the average American’s lips.)
eemom
@Amir Khalid:
You still win, cuz you got Robert Redford.
Roy G.
@burnspbesq: Perhaps I did misspeak, because Schneier should really be running the NSA – if that is, if it is supposed to actually fulfill its stated mission. Nice try slamming him with ‘self-proclaimed,’ as if you really were qualified to make that judgement, vs. people in my industry who really do know what’s going on with computer security and how it is compromised, and who hold Schneier in high regard.
I don’t think much of your insider choices, especially Lederman, unless the goal is to make some find some tortuous reasoning to make this all ‘legal.’ I’d one up you with Marcy Wheeler, Jennifer Granick, Jameel Jaffer or Shari Steele. Not going to hold my breath, because this is a Potemkin council anyway. Look me up if it ever turns out different, but the onus is on you and the government to prove it.
eemom
@Anne Laurie:
Actually, when we invaded Afghanistan in 2001 I couldn’t get the phrase out of my head.
Roy G.
@Mandalay: Not as actively as Geithner to be sure, however, don’t think that Occupy has been forgotten, and how neatly this system could be used against any future movements of this kind.
Chris
@Suzanne:
Don’t be too sure. They’ve got enough enemies in Washington who’ll jump on an opportunity to tear them down (the Pentagon and FBI being the big two, not to mention conservative politicians who’ve always been convinced that it’s a nest of liberal snakes), and who’ve had chances to make quite a bit of headway there in the last couple decades.
Mary G
Now I want Philippe’s something awful.
Mnemosyne
@Mary G:
Sadly, they closed about 45 minutes ago.
But they do open at 6 a.m. tomorrow morning (at least according to their website).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
What was it again?
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Miz Conception: Hell, during the Affordable Care Act debates, I was accused of being paid by the insurance industry to shill for them, by a person who was being paid by Firedoglake to post anti-ACA crap there.
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Mnemosyne: What do you think of Jerry’s Deli? Some friends took me to one when I was in LA, and I liked the place a lot.
mk3872
I love the hyperventilating over the “CIA file” on Chomsky … He was travelling to Vietnam in the early 70’s and HuffPo and BJ are SHOCKED to hear that the CIA got involved!
BTW, the “CIA file” actually does not indicate any “snooping”, just that they were interested to know what he was doing in Vietnam!
cvstoner
The fox already ate all the hens. Now he’s coming for you.
AnonPhenom
@Carolinus:
Shorter Carolinus et al;
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bLEXE3oT3KA
Mino
I believe the final position will be ….they are using his office because it is the only one big enough to hold the committee.
LAC
@mk3872: Well, Chomsky is the old new “Baby Jesus Manning” or the new old “Latter Day Prophet” Snowden or the Ron Jeremy of Outrage Porn. I lose track… :)