He’s history’s greatest monster for agreeing to something that we were already doing anyway.
3.
cathyx
It should say, I got this for the next 4 months.
4.
Cassidy
Just a month ago he was worse than Bush and starting a new Iraq. Before that he was the evil overlord driving poor widdle Snowden and St. Greenwald into hysterical fear for their lives. Things change so quickly.
Ah yes, the democratic “batsignal”. I always love it when it shows
up when there is a sea of hate and angst that special snowflakes in
the Democratic party gin up..
12.
donnah
The National evening news on NBc placed the burden right on the Republicans and framed it as a big loss for them. The focus was on the losers and of course instead of interviewing a Democrat, they pulled John McCain on camera and he grudgingly admitted the Republicans (Tea Party) were largely to blame, but not completely.
It feels good to see this fiasco come to an end, even if it’s not over by a long shot. My President stood up for me.
Cspan is now airing one of my Senators bemoaning the fact that the President won’t water board. Worst President evah!… Of course, he did not say waterboarding but instead said all procedures necessary. Sounds to me like Saxby’s the coward for not calling what it is. So is the Senate now just airing grievances and isn’t there a special day for that.
Has there ever been a President who has inherited more crap and had more advice on how to do his job than this one?
I can’t think of one.
It is amazing how he has done everything wrong from the day he announced he was running for President until this very minute, and yet here he is, the luckiest, undocumented worker on the friggin’ planet. I mean, I knew he would never get credit for doing anything right when they got mad at him for dropping Osama in the ocean and depriving them of their most favoritist boogyman . . . that’s when I knew that it wasn’t about what he did, it was about who he wasn’t.
19.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@cathyx: Of course, you can never let your Disappointed guard down.
New York Times has a new article on homes being built for the terribly inconvenienced and underappreciated wealthy:
But with the surge in construction of apartments at prices only a billionaire could afford, is there a fear of saturation?
“Price really has no relevance,” said Nancy Packes, a real estate consultant and marketing executive. “High net worth individuals look at real estate today not as a place to live, but as an investment. …
But Thomas Bender, a cultural historian at New York University, said the ultraluxury towers represented a flouting of the social distribution of wealth around the world.
“These are the kinds of buildings that the robber barons built,” Professor Bender said, “but it’s also what you see in rapidly developing societies where billionaires seek to distinguish themselves in the midst of poverty.”
As is the custom, all of the new luxury towers in Manhattan have celebrity architects, including Rafael Viñoly, Christian de Portzamparc and Robert A. M. Stern. They incorporate chic amenities, like studios for staff and personal wine cellars. But it is the views that are crucial.
Remember, folks, when you win the lottery, it’s not your staff, the people who work for you, who are crucial — it’s the views.
I don’t suppose we can ask terrorists to target these places and leave the rest of America alone?
.
22.
MikeJ
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Just when most Democrats are worried that voters won’t remember the hostage taking come election time, the Eeyore caucus has to complain that the Republicans might actually shoot themselves in the foot AGAIN.
US Citizens: Congratulations. You’re the king of nothing.
(Ralph and Alice, the Honeymooners)
24.
C. Isaac
So I caught “The Purge” on the On Demand section of my cable provider. By the end of the movie, awful as it was, I was convinced this was a Wingnut’s Utopia.
Murder and mayhem may legal for one 12 hour span every year so the manly men can go hunting for the poors and others that piss them off (classic Liberal hunting “joke”), and the only ones that are safe are those that are part of the “haves”. There’s even a creepy cult like adherence to the ‘New Founding Fathers’ who came up with the idea.
All this supposedly providing the US with an amazing economy, safe streets, and civility the other 364 and a half days a year.
Terrible movie, all around. The fiancee was literally calling the next move/scare 2-3 minutes before they happened. So not very exciting.
25.
max
Um, shouldn’t that be a picture of Harry Reid?
max
[‘Not faulting Obama, but Reid was doing all the lifting here.’]
So it’s NEVER Obama is it, yet when things don’t go the way ya want, then it’s ALL about Obama.
come on now. the meme was Obama was gonna cave, so since Obama didn’t cave, now the meme will be Obama WOULDA caved, but thanks to Harry Reid, he didn’t…
Have decided along with Jerry Brown and Chris Christie having a chin-up contest, the other political match I want to see is Harry Reid and Ted Cruz going three rounds in the boxing ring.
32.
lamh36
Anyway, this dude is really delusional…WTF!!!
@politicoroger 5m
Ted Cruz live: “It is sad the U.S. Senate will do nothing to answer your plight. We created your plight! That is sad.”
@politicoroger 3m
Ted Cruz live: “This is a terrible deal today. It is a terrible deal for the American people. But we’re going to turn this thing around.”
@politicoroger 5m
Ted Cruz live: Obamacare “isn’t working. The American people are rising up in incredible numbers!”
@PaulBegala 1m
I am loving @SenTedCruz’s speech. True zealot: victory is a sign of moral superiority; defeat, well, that’s a sign of his moral superiority.
33.
Caravelle
@JGabriel: That real estate consultant’s quote seems self-refuting to me. Luxury flats are only worth something as an investment if you expect there to be some demand for them that would lead the value to increase over time. Of course a lot of that demand can be having them as an investment… but surely there has to be someone at the bottom of the pyramid who actually wants the things for themselves, right ? Unless it’s all a bubble, but it would still make more sense as an investment to buy apartment buildings a large number of people will actually live in.
Then again it’s the super-rich, they have money to burn, what would they care whether they’re getting scammed or not ? Either way it’s all about conspicuous displays of wealth, not canny “investing”.
34.
jl
@max: Need a clip of the MGM lion roaring with Reid’s face photoshopped in.
@max: It took both of them to make this happened. If either the White House or the Senate Democrats had wavered, this would have had a very different ending.
40.
Lurking Canadian
I was going to post a link to that but I was afraid to jinx things. That dude is a steely-eyed missile man.
This turned up over at DKos, in a post about RedState commenters.
wexwuther
Kentucky can go to hell in a handbasket. The people there are flocking to the ACA. We should bring to this fight the discipline of the union workers who hold firm on their strikes and suffer on principle. There can be no worse patriotic move right now than to sign up for Obamacare just to save a few hundred bucks a month. It will end up costing America much more than that.
The deal, which will fund government through Jan. 15 at current spending levels and raise the debt ceiling through Feb. 7, includes a provision increasing funding for the Olmstead Lock, an Army Corps project on the border between Kentucky and Illinois, from $775 million to nearly $3 billion.
“It’s the Kentucky Kickback,” read a statement from the SFC. “In exchange for funding Obamacare and raising the debt limit, Mitch McConnell has secured a $2 billion earmark. This is an insult to all the Kentucky families who don’t want to pay for Obamacare and don’t want to shoulder any more debt.”
Mitch McConnell _literally_ sold them out! RINO Hunt! RedState Strike Force is GO!
45.
SarahT
Dear President Obama,
As a long-time supporter & great admirer of yours, I have a small favor to ask of you:
If it’s not too much trouble, once this deal is passed by both houses of Congress, can you please appear on live TV (preferably from that room with the red carpet where you told us about the death of Bin Laden) and announce that Cruz, Meese, DeMint, et al have been arrested and sent to Gitmo ? Treason, Sedition, whatever – you pick. And then can you please hold up a Confederate flag and piss all over it ?
Thank you very much, Mr. President – you’re the best.
@Birthmarker: It’s not Doug cuz he would add, where do I sign up?
48.
PsiFighter37
Heh, looks like McConnell snuck in an extra $2 billion of pork for a dam in Kentucky.
I’m not going to begrudge him for it…but this is why earmarks are necessary in politics – they help incentivize politicians to work together.
That said, I bet the Teabaggers are going to rip him a new one over this.
49.
jl
@lamh36: I think both Obama and Reid played a big role. Obama never gave an indication at all he would cave, and the racists GOPers simply could not believe it. Would have been nice to have some pics of the GOPers expression walking out of that recent meeting that Boehner described as ‘negotiations’.
Reid played an important role in reminding the GOP that any bill would have to pass the Senate, and unlike some other leaders, he could get a working majority to agree on something. Also nice how the Senate Dem concessions got small and smaller and smaller….
Both played a big role.
And I wanna see Reid (Lion of the Senate) roar in a lion suit.
Maybe have to settle for Reid riding around DC on a white horse.
But, Obama is the ultimate head of the Dems, so if he had weakened, the Senate Dems would not have been able to stand as strong as they did (and I think some were just dying to cave when the pressure was on).
50.
Trollhattan
Senator Ted Cruz has just told the chamber that the deal to end the debt standoff is a “train wreck”, as he vowed to continue his crusade against the law commonly known as Obamacare.
He’s beginning to sound like somebody railing against the Panama Canal. How’d that turn out, anyway?
51.
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37: See my comment a screen or so up. They’ve already given it a cutesy name (the Kentucky Kickback).
Maybe have to settle for Reid riding around DC on a white horse.
Anne Romney is going to be PISSED if he does that.
53.
dmsilev
@Trollhattan: He’s starting to sound like Joe McCarthy in the late stages of his alcohol poisoning. Either that or General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. “Fluids, Mandrake”
‘Not faulting Obama, but Reid was doing all the lifting here.’]
Yeah, because when Obama said “you get nothing” he really meant “here, have chained CPI and social security” right?
Right?
55.
jl
@dmsilev: Kenucky Kickback Katastrophe. That/s a catchy name for it. Will be popular in some teabagger quarters.
56.
Baud
All the Dems deserve praise for sticking together, in both the House and Senate, and with Obama.
57.
Emma
@Birthmarker: Ye gods. So you have two kids, both of whom have asthma and no insurance. And you’re going to be patriotic and let them choke to death because of the price of the inhaler being beyond your means? Or you have had prostate cancer and no insurance because of a “pre-existing condition” rule and you’re not going to buy yourself a policy because you’re the one who’s going to hold the line against Obamacare?
Are they even human, for God’s sake?
58.
jl
@Trollhattan: It WAS prophesied. I’ll have to pay more attention to those Mormon prophecies (if they have any more).
Was there something about a black man chewing nicorette in the prophesy?
but the usual suspects who were screaming the loudest that Obama would cave and give away the store, need another meme to push so that they can continue to feed their Obama is somehow weak meme.
So the “I sure hope Obama doesn’t cave” concern-trolling becomes “Woo boy, thank goodness for Harry Reid, Senate Dems, Nancy Pelosi (or anyone else but…) cause we know Obama WANTED/WOULD’VE caved…”
I see it and I’m just kinda tired of it right now.
The other thing I find hilarious is the the Teabaggers think this will turn out for them when we have to deal with this shit 3(!) months down the road. Are these dumbasses crossing their fingers and hoping the political climate is drastically different then? Because that is literally the only reason Obama wouldn’t flip them the bird and tell them to shove it.
63.
Cassidy
need another meme to push so that they can continue to feed their Obama is somehow weak “I’m a white suburbanite who knows better than the blah guy” meme.
fixieded I did
64.
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: I bet Reid was more than happy to stick it in there, knowing it would give McConnell a shitload a grief in doing so.
As long as it helps make Senator Grimes more of a possibility come January 2015, I’m all for it.
65.
Lurking Canadian
@PsiFighter37: the dam thing is real? It’s not just some tea bagged bullshit?
Andrew Sullivan is starting to think that Obama’s compromising back in 2011 was all a plan to make the Republicans self-destruct like this in 2013, since the Far Right was convinced Obama would cave this time as well, and pushed for more egregious demands that backfired spectacularly on the GOP.
Meep.
Motherf-cking.
Meep.
69.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: Has anyone seen Banksy’s latest? Probably better on a Tom Levenson or Kay thread, but w’evs.
@Omnes Omnibus: I have a few folk on FB who quite excited about Banksy. Art is great, but is he/she really worth all the commotion?
@PaulW: Even the biggest Obot here won’t claim that’s the kind of 11-dimensional chess he was playing. But that would be quite impressive if that was the case.
73.
dmsilev
@PaulW: Senate is voting now. First a cloture vote for some reason, then the actual vote (I guess the 30-hour rule has been waived or something)
74.
MikeJ
@dmsilev: What’s particularly silly about the dam project whinging is that it’s already half built. All they got was funding to finish it. Look at how much has already been dumped into it, and imagine if the teabaggers got it killed. Already $1.5 billion spent.
The other thing I find hilarious is the the Teabaggers think this will turn out for them when we have to deal with this shit 3(!) months down the road. Are these dumbasses crossing their fingers and hoping the political climate is drastically different then? Because that is literally the only reason Obama wouldn’t flip them the bird and tell them to shove it.
I think that really is their plan. I refer you to the apocryphal definition of insanity.
77.
piratedan
@PaulW: so the Pres pulled the Corbomite Maneuver on the GOP?
78.
lamh36
@PsiFighter37: agreed. I just think Obama has learned from past mistakes.
Just like on the campaign trail, in ’08 and ’12. I’m reminded of the first debate where Obama was panned. Well there can be no doubt that the next debates and in the VP debate, the Obama had learned the mistakes from the first debate and was killer afterwards.
79.
priscianus jr
@cathyx: It should say, I got this for the next 4 months.
@Omnes Omnibus: Have you seen Exit through the Gift Shop? Banksy is amazing.
81.
Pogonip
@lamh36: The American people are rising up to declare we intend to vote these assholes out. We want NEW assholes (which sounds like it could get uncomfortable…)
I want to speak up in Cathy X’s defense. Any Federal employee can tell you that this will indeed happen again in 3 months. We will also tell you that lurching from continuing resolution to continuing resolution ain’t no way to run a railroad, or a government. I don’t think you should scold Cathy for acknowledging reality (don’t you pride yourselves on being the reality-based community?). I’m sure Pres. Obama is planning for January 15 even as we speak, and that’s exactly what he should be doing.
Yep. When the rumors leaked out that the granny-starver and Boehner were talking grand bargain in connection with the standoff – without any indication that Obama was involved or would do anything but tell them to cram it – we got a nice headcount of the people who have to fit all political stories into the “Obama sold us out – or would have, if we progressive heroes hadn’t stamped our feet so loud!” narrative. I enjoy billmon generally, but he’s one of the very worst in this regard. Many of these same people would turn on a hypothetical President Elizabeth Warren within a month as soon as she had to start cutting deals that didn’t deliver ponies and unicorns and actually govern.
Probably. He’s been doing satirical and politic graffiti as serious art for 20 years. He has a Academy award nomination for a documentary that he did. And he is vaguely associated with the band Massive Attack. That’s off the top of my head. The serious art people could probably say more.
@dmsilev: Hopefully, the vote is smooth, because I’m tired of linking to Robert Costa to find out what the whackos are thinking. It just makes me feel dirty.
85.
priscianus jr
@lamh36: So it’s NEVER Obama is it, yet when things don’t go the way ya want, then it’s ALL about Obama.
The truth is, they were on the same team, it’s not a zero-sum game. Harry Reid really did a fantastic job. There wasn’t a single Democrat that was not on the team. But Obama is team captain.
86.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Lurking Canadian: Yup, it’s real. I looked up the section in the bill, which is an amendment to a 1988 law appropriating money for, among other things, dam and lock construction on the Ohio River.
When I first heard about it, the only places I could find it reported were winger sites, so I had to make sure the sky really was blue, yanno?
Besides, the wingers were talking like it was a new appropriation, which can’t start in the Senate. I knew they had to have gotten something wrong.
87.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pogonip: Of course it will happen again in 3 months. And it won’t go any better for the GOP the next time.
Even the biggest Obot here won’t claim that’s the kind of 11-dimensional chess he was playing. But that would be quite impressive if that was the case.
When you realize it started with his folks calling Hawaii long-distance from Kenya to place the fake birth announcement in 1961, you realize the dude plays a long game.
89.
MikeJ
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: And from their FAQ: The completed project will have net annual benefits of approximately $640 million – returning more than the construction costs in less than five years.
90.
priscianus jr
@Trollhattan: as he vowed to continue his crusade against the law commonly known as Obamacare.
… and destroy what’s left of the Republican Party.
91.
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus: Nor the people who get sent home without a paycheck.
92.
lamh36
@priscianus jr: as I said in my second comment, I agree that it was a joint effort
93.
raven
@Pogonip: So you need to be told the obvious over and over?
94.
Thymezone
I blame Balloon-Juice for all of it. All of it.
95.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: I agree. November of 2014 is a big deal.
@raven: That’s a little simplistic don’t you think?
97.
Anya
@PaulW: Doesn’t the NYT story contradict that. I read it as Obama getting disgusted with the compromise he made with the lunatics and vowing never to allow these assholes to hold the country hostage again.
I personally am enjoying the win. They don’t come often enough, and this one came from the Rs being jaw-droppingly incompetent. I’ll worry about the next battle tomorrow.
Not all federal workers can afford a two week unpaid holiday. If they had to obtain loans to help them out, that is money lost on the interest they paid. Small businesses depending on the parks being opened aren’t going to be reimbursed. What was the point of all this? The only company that appears to have lucked out is the chicken company that had salmonella contamination.
105.
taylormattd
@MikeJ: Mike, you forgot to mention that they will also use the word “kabuki” multiple times.
106.
RevRick
Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi. The good guys won!
@Anya: I think that this time around there is no burning incentive to compromise for the Dems. What would be in it for them? Embarrassment and another hostage situation is a short time. If the GOP is going to force it to happen again and again, our side should at least make them keep losing and taking the blame.
You got that right… yep. There is their “IDEALS” (footnote – never achievable in reality) and how the world actually works and what you need to do to be in the real world. Ironically, you see what happens when reality and the laws of gravity get forgotten by watching this outcome for the Republicans. But never mind, the left progs can never appreciate that reality and their widdle bwains may not be on the same plane.
114.
dmsilev
Cloture passes 83-16. Proceeding immediately to final vote.
@Trollhattan: Really, they are going to have to start doing psych evaluations on people who want to run for office. Cruz, Gohmert, & their ilk shouldn’t be allowed to wander about alone, much less be in a position of responsibility.
@Villago Delenda Est: Kentucky should run a tea party candidate even if Mitch wins the primary. That will show them…
This message comes from the Grimes campaign… haha
Many of these same people would turn on a hypothetical President Elizabeth Warren within a month as soon as she had to start cutting deals that didn’t deliver ponies and unicorns and actually govern.
If the ghost of Eugene V. Debs were elected they’d be pouting over the equine shortage.
I don’t think he was thinking that far ahead at the time, but as with Syria, I think he showed adaptability and a willingness to seize a new opportunity in that he understood that the Republicans would bash themselves against the concrete wall of his refusal repeatedly this time, thinking he would eventually come to the table with some juicy entitlement cuts (or some such concessions) that they could then campaign against Democrats in 2014 with. And letting them believe it, and then do it, made this a bigger political win than it might have been otherwise.
123.
Ella in New Mexico
Especially after finding out my hubby get’s ALL of his furloughed days paid back to him, I think that THIS personal message to all those Tea Party Anarchists is even MORE fitting:
I wish I could find a way to have it blast into their offices at random intervals for the next 24 hours.
124.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thymezone: Because I am a pointy-headed, Saab driving, latte drinking, wine sipping, over-educated liberal elite type. Duh.
125.
Cassidy
Many of these same people would turn on a hypothetical President Elizabeth Warren within a month as soon as she had to start cutting deals that didn’t deliver ponies and unicorns and actually govern.
IOW, the daily Balloon Juice posts coming from mix, AL, and Cole?
You must not worry. Seize the moment and take a deep breath. Relax and enjoy for a moment. Future battles are on us soon enough —appreciate this moment and savor — it is fleeting…
128.
lamh36
Where is DougJ and why haven’t we had a #GOPplayist thread yet. Seems like it would be right up his alley!
Seriously — I prayed that Boehner would find the strength to capitulate. I prayed that he would value our government and our existence enough to do that — that he would be willing to collapse and take the abuse — the thorns. He WAS — praise be.
135.
Poopyman
I have no problem having the Republicans shit all over themselves periodically for the next year with CR after CR. As long as it keeps their inabilities and instabilities in full public view leading up to the election.
And I say that as someone who has been out of work since Sequestration started. And let me tell you, there was NO WAY the govt or contractors were hiring for the last 6 weeks.
@elftx: But it wasn’t the right thing! By any measure!
137.
PsiFighter37
@elftx: I’ll be happy to oblige Simon. Does he prefer metal or plastic, or would a spork be better?
138.
sparrow
@Caravelle: She’s just using her weasel words to confuse you. You see, when you talk to the monied class you say things like “this luxury apartment is a great investment. You don’t say “this luxury apartment is a grotesque testament to your personal vanity”. It’s a sales pitch.
@PaulW: The Senate is still bloviating. I swear they’re dragging this out on purpose.
141.
PsiFighter37
Anyone have the list of the 16 dead-enders who voted against cloture in the Senate? I sure do hope Sir Rand and Marco Rubio jumped on Teddy’s sinking ship.
142.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Can anyone convert the legalese on page 24-27 of the Senate Bill (the Default Prevention Act of 2013) into English? It seems to take the debt ceiling off the table as a way to destroy the government – all Obama has to do is to send a letter to Congress after February 7 saying that the debt limit has to be suspended to pay for things that Congress has approved. They can say, “We don’t like it.” But that’s about it.
Is that all it says? Did the Republicans really give up the debt ceiling cudgel??
Another way of saying, “there’s always a bigger sucker than you down the road.”
144.
CaseyL
I tuned into CPSAN late; the banner along the bottom says the deal has been passed, but they still seem to be counting votes (Grassley voted “no”).
So I don’t know whether the deal has actually been voted on, or just cloture and now they’re voting on the actual bill.
145.
Howard Beale IV
@SarahT: We’ll see how that plays out com the end of January if/when Obama signs the Granbd Bargain Act (or whatever the fuck they’ll misname it, like the PATRIOT Act and the other horribly named Acts that do a complete 180 of what they were labeled…..)
146.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@elftx: I have a theory, which is mine, and which is: Mike Lee is not that bright.
I applaud your confession. Admitting your own deficits is the first step :-)
148.
CarolDuhart2
Im surprised that they would ask for a period so quickly after Christmas. It would seem to me to be a better deal to postpone this after the elections and gamble on a larger majority in the House and Senate. Doing so would cool the waters enough for the markets and possibly save some seats through apathy.
No apathy now.
149.
dmsilev
Passes the Senate, 81-18. Wonder who voted for cloture but not for passage.
I really would like a copy of that poster. I wish the President would send one out with the next fundraiser instead of a picture of the stupid dog. And I also wish that Joe Biden would tape himself reminiscing about what it was like in the White House and who said what to whom while this was going down. Yes, I would LITERALLY like him to do that. And I want a pony, too.
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I read on it is that Obama will notify Congress he is issuing more debt. They can vote against that, he can veto their objection, they can override his veto.
So, Congress can look like their opposing it but have much less power to actually oppose it. It’s a sunday show GOP talking point factory.
160.
lamh36
@NBCNews 14s
JUST IN: Pres. Obama to make statement to press at 8:25pET
I understood the news reports to say that after the President authorizes increase in debt limit under this bill, majorities in House and Senate can prevent the increase, but President can veto it with no recourse.
So I read it as a micro fig leaf that allows House to make PR stink when debt limit actually raised now, but a stink that can’t stop the increase. I never read that the House GOP gave up right to try to hold debt hostage after Feb 17 next year.
162.
Betty Cracker
@PsiFighter37: Rubio said earlier he would vote against the bill. He’s an idiot.
163.
Poopyman
@lamh36: Yo! Chuckles! Only one party needs to apologize, and the Republicans never apologize. So go ahead! Hold your breath and wait.
Ryan J. Reilly @ryanjreilly 1h
Federal judge has granted Shirley Sherrod’s motion to substitute Andrew Breitbart’s widow in defamation lawsuit.
166.
dmsilev
@CaseyL: What just passed was a combination CR/debt ceiling hike, i.e. “The Deal”. What is being voted on now I think is related to the Senate’s proposed budget for 2014, i.e. the instructions to the budget conferees.
167.
bodacious
Kind of interesting watching the live feed from the Senate vote. Everyone sort of milling around, but Cruz is awkwardly trying to find someone to talk to. The body language if fascinating. Not the rock star that Eric sired son of Erick gives him.
168.
Botsplainer
McConnell merely went back to his wardheeler roots for the Olmsted project. It had to feel pretty damned good to get back to business the old-timey way. He used to be pretty good at hauling back pork, and could get good at it again.
Fucking Cruz is making him look like a statesman worthy of re-election.
Then again it’s the super-rich, they have money to burn, what would they care whether they’re getting scammed or not ? Either way it’s all about conspicuous displays of wealth, not canny “investing”.
You have to understand: The “investment” is in how they look to other rich people. That’s why “the views” are all-important — it’s all about who the new buyer will be looking down on / overlooking. Thorstein Veblen, the Reckoning…
You read any stories about the current art market? Critic after critic bemoaning the pointless giantism and overinflation where ‘name brand’ Serious Artists let their managers set up warehouses (literally, factories!) where faceless assistants churn out ever-bigger works that the Great Man can slap his signature on. It’s like a farcical version of the Medici, or the wealthy burghers bidding up Rembrandts… except I somehow misdoubt that even a hundred years from now, the names ‘Jeff Koons’ or ‘Damien Hirsch’ will be known except to art historians hunting for suitably obscure PhD topics!
@CaseyL: Jeebus. I hope they didn’t split the two. That could give the House the ability to raise the debt ceiling but keep the government shut down. And much less pressure now to reopen since Grandma would still get her SS check.
@jl: I could also see the House refusing to give up their favourite weapon like that, stripping it out, then send it back to the Senate. I cannot see the Teatards accepting that.
172.
jl
@? Martin: I didn’ t read that Congress could over ride. Anyway, it is a fig leaf since a disapproval vote would never pass the Senate, and an over ride vote would not get 2/3s. Whatever. Still a dinky figleaf. I wouldn’t want to walk around wearing it. But maybe that is just me.
It’s actually a good project, and that $3 billion is largely going in the pockets of union construction people.
189.
Omnes Omnibus
@ranchandsyrup: Johnson of WI is interesting. He has been getting beaten up pretty badly by local Tea folk recently. Looks like he want to shore up his asshole cred.
190.
dmsilev
Murray: “We will have a negotiation, not a hostage situation”
I sincerely hope so.
191.
Birthmarker
@Turgidson: Yes, they will absolutely come up with ss and medicare cuts then badger dems with them in November.
DougJ is surely spoofing some of the posts on this thread. It’s how he got his start on BJ and nobody is better at it than he is.
193.
C. Isaac
The Guardian’s blog on the vote is devolving into snark.
CNN’s Dana Bash was just saying that she hears House Republican leaders are a bit upset that President Obama is speaking before the House gets to vote. Pity the poor, poor House Republicans.
@dmsilev: They sent Murrray in to negotiate and she doesn’t have to worry about keeping her seat. She could be caught with a live girl and a dead boy and still walk away with her next election.
196.
dmsilev
President Obama speaking now.
197.
Pogonip
To whoever was looking for a Federal job: did you try the many, many DOD agencies? DOD is almost always hiring somewhere. These days you have to have college even to get in at the GS-4 level, though, which may explain why DOD is always hiring!
198.
PurpleGirl
Looks like there were a bunch of good posts and comment threads; I was either watching kittens or the Sinatra “The Manchurian Candidate” with the computer turned off.
President Obama is speaking. Woo hoo. He’ll have more to say tomorrow.
I would love to hear what he has to say tonight, over a martini in the White House.
200.
jl
@C. Isaac: Maybe Obama can speak after both chambers vote? Why not? Get twofer PR on it.
I’ll wait for the statement after the House votes.
“You wanna piece of me, huh? How do you like me now, suckers? Huh, you want another piece of me next time, losers?”
201.
Yatsuno
@MikeJ: Patty will be the senior Senator from Washington as long as she fucking wants. The only way she could lose is changing to an R. Plus anyone who knows her backstory knows she is tough as fuck. I lurves both me Senate critters.
And I have to say, when I called Rep. De Lauro’s office in the midst of the crisis just to see if they could say anything to reassure me, and the staffer kept starting to explain things to me and I’d say, “I know, I know, the Hastert rule,” etc., he said, “You are VERY well informed.” Thanks to BJ, baby!
208.
Helen
@lamh36: OMG. It’s a night for awesome news. I cannot wait for the discovery in this lawsuit.
At some point the President is gonna have to learn to kick them when they are down. That is how he disappointed me with his comments. I’m tired of having a President trying to appeal to all citizens. Where’s the codpiece.
haha
210.
Ted & Hellen
Cole, as much as I like you, you can always be depended on to sooner or later revert to Fan Boy behavior, regardless of your allegiances.
Did GWB also say “ECTFO, IGT?”
And when he did so, did his natural, masculine, dominance also send chills up your inner thighs?
211.
Birthmarker
@Howard Beale IV: As in the words of John Kerry, “They all have these Orwellian names…”
I somehow misdoubt that even a hundred years from now, the names ‘Jeff Koons’ or ‘Damien Hirsch’ will be known except to art historians hunting for suitably obscure PhD topics!
Yes, actually he did. “I’m the decider.” What did people think he meant by that? Besides “I’m the deciderator,” maybe?
220.
slightly_peeved
@Anne Laurie: My bet is that people will talk about one of today’s artists as one of the greats. The guy that just unveiled that Ronald McDonald statue in the Bronx.
@C. Isaac: The House GOP is stuck. Vote it down, same day they said the media ‘betrayed’ them? And then complain they did because their feelings were hurt. Then they’d be on the hook to resolve it again.
Think what the next Senate Dem ‘concessions’ would look like? Something like House GOPer have to wear a ‘kick me’ sign when they go back to their districts and send out flyers with instructions on how to sign up for Obamacare with their franking privilege?
Abraham Lincoln, who was born on this day in 1809, was a tremendously skilled wrestler. And, it seems, a prodigious trash talker.
The rugged frontiersman once beat a man with a single toss and challenged the mob that had gathered with a shout: “Any of you want to try it, come on and whet your horns!”
No one stepped forward.
233.
Omnes Omnibus
@JCJ: Walker is doing more damage but, goddamn, Johnson is an asshole.
It had been running half and half with a bunch of harsh commentary hating on Teabigots making up the negative half (I was probably the least respectful, which means I was snarky and rude as shit). After scrubbing, the thing is 75% pro-Teatard, with milquetoast making up the oppo. On top of that, I think you have to like him to post, or he’s blocked me.
Fuck him – daddy bought his seat, daddy can spend to help him keep it.
I fear for what happens if the House GOP suffers true mental meltdown and votes down the Senate bill, but one thing I know for sure — it ends the Republican party. There’d be no hiding the sheer wrongheadedness of it. They’d have to own it. It’d be the GOP Depression and it’d be a very painful lesson.
@Elizabelle: Projection. Timmeh is a 12 theatre multiplex.
244.
Irony Abounds
Nobody should be gloating tonight because now that the CR and Debt Limit news will be coming to an end the press can focus on what an absolute clusterfuck the healthcare exchanges are. The website is a complete disaster, and the phone assistance absolutely sucks as well. After many many attempts just to input information and get my identity verified just so I could begin the application process, once I start the application process the “Next” button simply does not work. The “Live Chat” helps says it is due to high volume and glitches that they are working on and I should use the phone assistance. When I call the phone assistance, I am put on hold for 10 minutes then transferred to the survey that I agreed to take AFTER I had spoken to a representative. All this just so I can get a policy that apparently will cost me 40-60% more than my current policy for comparable coverage. I can’t keep my current policy because it was not in force on the cutoff date back in 2010. Makes it difficult for me to extol the virtues of the ACA when at the moment the thought of it makes me so angry.
Too bad the mid-terms aren’t this November, because we could beat the shit out of the Republicans. The people who will be happiest with the ACA aren’t mid-term election voters by and larger, while those most adversely impacted are. Unless the Republicans step on their own dicks again between now and November 2014 I have a bad feeling about what will happen.
245.
Anya
@C. Isaac: They are truly a bunch of adolescents dealing identity issues.
246.
jl
@C. Isaac: Who knows what the House GOP will do? They are nuts. I hope they approve the Senate bill, and if they want to feel pre-humiliated as well as post, too bad.
BTW, my comment was replying to the twitty tweet in your coment, not you.
I fear for what happens if the House GOP suffers true mental meltdown and votes down the Senate bill…
That would be terrifying, but I think Boehner is letting this get to the floor for a vote – no Hastert Rule blocking it – and it will have, SHOULD HAVE, all the Democratic votes (217 I believe), which only needs about 25 Republicans cross the aisle to pass it. Considering the Senate overwhelmingly voted for it (81 votes) meaning a large number of Republicans there went with it, it should provide enough political cover for the Republicans in Obama-friendly districts to vote the deal in.
@Irony Abounds: That is too bad. But I thought you could shop the exchanges without registering now. And is the quote you got before or after subsidies?
254.
lamh36
RT @EvanMcSan: Obama will speak to the nation again tomorrow at 10:35a ET, per WH
Well, I’m glad my own prediction that we’d go over the debt ceiling seems wrong. And I can’t wait for the House to vote so I can start making jokes on my FB page.
262.
Soonergrunt
@Lurking Canadian: Yes, it’s real, and just because it’s an earmark for a Republican Senator (even McConnell) doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a bad thing.
This dam will bring enhanced flood control, better electrification to rural areas in Kentucky, Ohio, and Illinois, and more jobs to the region, as well as increased recreational opportunities.
263.
max
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): Yeah, because when Obama said “you get nothing” he really meant “here, have chained CPI and social security” right?
Well, 1) He said his schtick as he should have, he gave great press conference and then he got the hell out of the way and let Reid do what passed for negotiating, which Reid has brought home. Yay!
2) Please eat shit and die.
max
[‘Thanks. Have a nice day!’]
264.
C. Isaac
Guardian is getting positively shrill! Someone get the fainting couches!
Imagine changing your vote on something like this because the President read a benign two-minute statement before you would have preferred him to. Well now that he’s done that, I believe America must default on its debt!
carl hulse @hillhulse
Pres Obama speaking before the House vote probably cost a few GOP votes. It will irk some people that he didn’t wait.
I have tremendous confidence in our President. I was talking to a gentleman who is in his late 80s. He was a classmate of Robert Kennedy at Harvard and now a super Obot. He told me that the American people don’t realize what an extraordinary man we have elected as our President and thinks that he will be considered one of the greats. This man has seen a lot in his many years on this planet and has a strong sense of history.
Now we just need to work our asses off to elect a Congress that will work with him and for our well being.
269.
Soonergrunt
@Yatsuno: ” I lurves both me Senate critters.”
Must be nice.
270.
jl
@Xecky Gilchrist: That crossed my mind. But we should watch what we say and what we do. The House GOP might take offense.
271.
Ted & Hellen
This country will be politically retarded as long as its populace has this need, as often evidenced here at BJ, to take sides much more in accordance with the color of the home team’s uniforms than with anything specific the home team is actually doing or saying. There is almost no attempt to be even the slightest bit objective.
I say this as someone who thinks most of the Republicans are lying sacks of shit. But they couldn’t do most of the mischief they do without the coldheart enabling of the worthless wieniecrats.
He told me that the American people don’t realize what an extraordinary man we have elected as our President and thinks that he will be considered one of the greats.
Totally! The One cannot fail us! He can only BE failed. Now get out there and work!
(Or it could be that the old fart is senile…)
273.
Mike E
ETA ^^^ Tim haz a sad!! ^^^
As the pres walked out of the WH press room, a reported shouted a question: Will we go thru this all over again in 2 months?
I think Chuck Todd should apologize for carrying water for all the bullshit lies about the ACA that he never corrected. I think Chuck Todd should apologize for peddling the BS meme that it was both sides and the President wouldn’t negotiate blah, blah, blah unitl he saw the results of the polling that overwhelmingly blamed the Republicans. Only then did he start to say anything about how the Republicans were manufacturing this crisis.
Chuck Todd as much as anyone else has much to apologize for.
275.
fuckwit
@PsiFighter37: It was NOT FUCKING 11th-DIMENSIONAL ANYTHING. It was just simple dignity, integrity, respect, and an unwavering belief in and committment to Democracy and the Constitution and America.
Obama drove me nuts in the beginning of his term– I was in full firebagger territory– until I figured out how he operates. He really does believe that compromise, comity, inclusiveness, and respectfulness are essential to the functioning of a peaceful democratic government, and will fight to defend THOSE much harder than to defend any particular policy…. and I can’t really argue with that if I think about it very long.
There was no way he’d ever let a small minority in one party in one house of one branch of government hold the whole country and the world economy hostage. Was never going to happen on his watch. That was the line not to be crossed again.
Extraordinary people make mistakes. I don’t know any Obots who think that the President is infallible or who agree with him all the time.
My neighbor is not senile–he is physically and mentally fit and the best thing about him is that he is really positive and enjoyable to be around. He has lots of friends and his family members who enjoy spending time with him. My kids love him because he says encouraging things to them and he remembers details about their lives and always asks questions about their studies and interests.
I think even you would enjoy his company and maybe some of his positive attitude and good nature would make an impression on you.
But seriously, I am *so* very sorry for you that the country didn’t head into a depression. It must be just terrible to be declined another chance to revel in despair porn.
The One cannot fail us! He can only BE failed. Now get out there and work!
Were you gazing longingly at a photo of St. Greenwald or Prince Snowden when you wrote that sentence?
287.
ruemara
@Cassidy: I ain’t saying nothing, but I’m smirking because you’re right.
288.
Felonius Monk
Corey Booker won U.S. Senate seat in NJ special election. Also picked up a Dem seat in House special election in Florida today.
289.
Cassidy
Were you gazing longingly at a photo of St. Greenwald or Prince Snowden fapping away like Vitter in a diving store when you wrote that sentence?
You’re all thinking it.
290.
Ripley
T&H, paint a picture, it’ll last longer.
Oh wait, no it won’t.
291.
Irony Abounds
@jl: That’s the problem, I can’t even get to the point where I can complete an application to get quotes (the system does not allow you to get a quote until you complete an application). My estimate of the cost comes from the cost of comparable bronze level plans outside the exchange. Right now I’m paying around $300/month for a Blue Cross HSA PPO plan, and the cheapest PPO HSA I can find outside of the exchange is around $440. The only Blue Cross plan I will qualify for now is $505. I understand why rates have to go up for most people given elimination of the pre-existing condition provisions and the unlimited lifetime coverage, but changes like this are not going to sit well. Having an epic fail of a website for the exchanges just exacerbates the problem.
@MomSense: Obama’s the best damn President since FDR, easily. And for what he’ll do for this country long term, perhaps one day he’ll be one of the top 3. He’s amazing.
Is he perfect? Close, but no. But any so called mistakes are just that, honest, sincere mistakes. Who cares? He’s not lying to our faces.
Fuck the haters – fools all.
293.
Omnes Omnibus
@Irony Abounds: I get the concerns about the website – but have you ever seen any web rollout go off without a hitch?
More importantly, why are you bitching about the price when you know you haven’t gone through the whole process and seen what your actual price will be? Also, if, for some reason, no subsidy applies for you, then you are no worse off than you are now – stay with your current plan.
I thought they changed the website so that you no longer have to register to look at the rates.
295.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Irony Abounds: Have you tried the KFF Calculator? It might give you a ballpark estimate while they iron out the bugs in the federal exchange web site.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
296.
ruemara
@MomSense: No. I would love for that to be so, but I do not believe it is possible for that to happen.
297.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
For all your talk of the evils of teams you can’t accept your guys’ loss gracefully, can you? Well, you can’t do anything gracefully, so no big surprise there I suppose.
@Betty Cracker:
I want books from Obama, Biden, Nancy SMASH and possibly Michelle. In particular, I would love if Biden wrote his book in the style of Onion Biden.
@Omnes Omnibus: Released as an audiobook on 8 Track only. Hipster as fuck.
302.
Pogonip
@Redshirt: I think that considering the Congress he has (and we have) been burdened with, Obama’s done an excellent job. And his sticking firmly to the principles of good governance seems to be finally forcing the talking heads and stenographers away from the both-sides do it. No matter how busy voters are, how little informed they are, nobody is going to believe that a grifter like Palin or a nutty Teabagger is really the same as a guy who calmly and logically explains why he doesn’t believe the country can run from crisis to crisis and so he intends to do his best to keep that from happening. With a more dramatic president they might have been able to gin up some both-sides foolishness, but Obama stuck strictly to the subject and so they had nothing to work with, and the people saw what was really going on, and nearly all of us sided with Obama.
Has there ever been a President who has inherited more crap and had more advice on how to do his job than this one?
Lincoln, A. Johnson, FDR, and Truman for starters.
304.
Irony Abounds
@Omnes Omnibus: You might want to dial your smug condescension back a bit. First, I have looked at the prices for all the non-exchange prices that also are designated bronze, silver, etc. It is highly unlikely that the exchange prices for comparable plans are going to be significantly better than plans outside the exchange. Second, you should have read my post a bit more carefully. I don’t have the option of keeping my existing plan. Under the ACA it is not a grandfathered plan (I started on it in January 2012 after the 2010 cut-off date). Hence, I have no plan as of January 1, 2014. So pardon me if I bitch a little about the situation.
As for your assertion that all web rollouts have problems, the problems healthcare.gov is having are not mere minor glitches. The site and the application process is virtually impossible to navigate to get to the end result. I realize there is still time to correct these things, but there is zero excuse for having such an ineptly designed website. It isn’t a matter of volume at this point – the manner in which it was developed was as inept as the TeaTards attempt to defund ObamaCare.
Oh, and I don’t qualify for any subsidies, which is fine, I don’t need those. Nonetheless, a 40+% increase in premiums is not exactly good news.
305.
Irony Abounds
@Baud: The “window shopping” they allow is merely the base rate for the cheapest version of every plan. It does not take age into account. As someone getting up there I don’t qualify for those rates.
Blow it out your ass, and enjoy the death spiral of your party of sociopaths.
Hah, I wasn’t trolling dude. I’m an Obot. That picture used to come up a lot during the 2008 election when we’d be having an emotional roller coaster ride. Every time there was a triumph, that picture woudl show up. It’s literally is the batsignal to chill the fuck out. After all, he does got this.
@Pogonip: Awesome post. Upvoted 1, would upvote more.
308.
Omnes Omnibus
@Irony Abounds: Okay. Bitch away. I hadn’t seen the fact that your plan is going away; it was in a different comment to that to which I was responding. Nevertheless, I still say it is a bit premature to bitch about the rates on the exchanges when you don’t know what the rates actually are. YMMV.
“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.”
— Voltaire (and, in light of recent events, presumably also Obama)
310.
amk
@cathyx: In other words, that pic will get thrown in your firebagger face in another 4 months. I am cool with it.
First, I have looked at the prices for all the non-exchange prices that also are designated bronze, silver, etc. It is highly unlikely that the exchange prices for comparable plans are going to be significantly better than plans outside the exchange.
Are you sure of that? Even plans in the same tier may show a broad range of prices, and you really have to look at them closely to decide which gives you the best bang for your buck. For example, here’s some comparisons of Colorado plans inside and outside of the exchanges.
This still seems like an incredible pain for you, and I’m sorry you have to deal with it, but you might find a plan inside the exchange that is more affordable.
(Also, I don’t get some of the acronyms you mentioned. Is your current insurance provided by your employer, or did you get it on your own? If it’s from your employer, are they going to pay you more now that they no longer have to pay part of your premiums?)
jackmac
President “My offer is this: Nothing” Corleone
MikeJ
He’s history’s greatest monster for agreeing to something that we were already doing anyway.
cathyx
It should say, I got this for the next 4 months.
Cassidy
Just a month ago he was worse than Bush and starting a new Iraq. Before that he was the evil overlord driving poor widdle Snowden and St. Greenwald into hysterical fear for their lives. Things change so quickly.
AxelFoley
@cathyx:
Of course you would.
LanceThruster
Start rounding up the traitors for the FEMA internment camps. The baggers can go all Mad Max Thunderdome in there.
AxelFoley
@Cassidy:
I know, right?
SectarianSofa
Don’t jinx me, bro. (What’s the FSM equivalent of crossing oneself?)
Baud
Fun fact: That is the image they were going to use on the trillion dollar coin if it came to that.
Alison
I like this one too :)
Cain
Ah yes, the democratic “batsignal”. I always love it when it shows
up when there is a sea of hate and angst that special snowflakes in
the Democratic party gin up..
donnah
The National evening news on NBc placed the burden right on the Republicans and framed it as a big loss for them. The focus was on the losers and of course instead of interviewing a Democrat, they pulled John McCain on camera and he grudgingly admitted the Republicans (Tea Party) were largely to blame, but not completely.
It feels good to see this fiasco come to an end, even if it’s not over by a long shot. My President stood up for me.
the Conster
@Cain:
LOLWUT
LanceThruster
Cruz in action.
JPL
Cspan is now airing one of my Senators bemoaning the fact that the President won’t water board. Worst President evah!… Of course, he did not say waterboarding but instead said all procedures necessary. Sounds to me like Saxby’s the coward for not calling what it is. So is the Senate now just airing grievances and isn’t there a special day for that.
Violet
I’m so glad Obama is President. That is all.
JenJen
@Cain: Chortle-derp!
FourMoreYears
Has there ever been a President who has inherited more crap and had more advice on how to do his job than this one?
I can’t think of one.
It is amazing how he has done everything wrong from the day he announced he was running for President until this very minute, and yet here he is, the luckiest, undocumented worker on the friggin’ planet. I mean, I knew he would never get credit for doing anything right when they got mad at him for dropping Osama in the ocean and depriving them of their most favoritist boogyman . . . that’s when I knew that it wasn’t about what he did, it was about who he wasn’t.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@cathyx: Of course, you can never let your Disappointed guard down.
I bet you’re fun at parties
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You know the whiny shits are going to be here.
JGabriel
New York Times has a new article on homes being built for the terribly inconvenienced and underappreciated wealthy:
Remember, folks, when you win the lottery, it’s not your staff, the people who work for you, who are crucial — it’s the views.
I don’t suppose we can ask terrorists to target these places and leave the rest of America alone?
.
MikeJ
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Just when most Democrats are worried that voters won’t remember the hostage taking come election time, the Eeyore caucus has to complain that the Republicans might actually shoot themselves in the foot AGAIN.
WereBear
Tea Party: I’m the King, and you’re nothing!
US Citizens: Congratulations. You’re the king of nothing.
(Ralph and Alice, the Honeymooners)
C. Isaac
So I caught “The Purge” on the On Demand section of my cable provider. By the end of the movie, awful as it was, I was convinced this was a Wingnut’s Utopia.
Murder and mayhem may legal for one 12 hour span every year so the manly men can go hunting for the poors and others that piss them off (classic Liberal hunting “joke”), and the only ones that are safe are those that are part of the “haves”. There’s even a creepy cult like adherence to the ‘New Founding Fathers’ who came up with the idea.
All this supposedly providing the US with an amazing economy, safe streets, and civility the other 364 and a half days a year.
Terrible movie, all around. The fiancee was literally calling the next move/scare 2-3 minutes before they happened. So not very exciting.
max
Um, shouldn’t that be a picture of Harry Reid?
max
[‘Not faulting Obama, but Reid was doing all the lifting here.’]
FourMoreYears
“He has a backbone like a ramrod.”-Joe Biden
Mike E
@max: Bully, pulpitted.
lamh36
@max: Oh brother…this again.
So it’s NEVER Obama is it, yet when things don’t go the way ya want, then it’s ALL about Obama.
come on now. the meme was Obama was gonna cave, so since Obama didn’t cave, now the meme will be Obama WOULDA caved, but thanks to Harry Reid, he didn’t…
whatever…
Villago Delenda Est
@Cain:
Someone has been into Boner’s liquor
cabinetwarehouse.lamh36
https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/390613476722229248
Trollhattan
@max: .
Have decided along with Jerry Brown and Chris Christie having a chin-up contest, the other political match I want to see is Harry Reid and Ted Cruz going three rounds in the boxing ring.
lamh36
Anyway, this dude is really delusional…WTF!!!
Caravelle
@JGabriel: That real estate consultant’s quote seems self-refuting to me. Luxury flats are only worth something as an investment if you expect there to be some demand for them that would lead the value to increase over time. Of course a lot of that demand can be having them as an investment… but surely there has to be someone at the bottom of the pyramid who actually wants the things for themselves, right ? Unless it’s all a bubble, but it would still make more sense as an investment to buy apartment buildings a large number of people will actually live in.
Then again it’s the super-rich, they have money to burn, what would they care whether they’re getting scammed or not ? Either way it’s all about conspicuous displays of wealth, not canny “investing”.
jl
@max: Need a clip of the MGM lion roaring with Reid’s face photoshopped in.
gogol's wife
@FourMoreYears:
My feelings exactly.
jenn
@lamh36: It’s both of them – and from what I’ve heard, they’ve been working very closely together on all this. I think they both deserve recognition!
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
Meep meep, motherfuckers. See you fuck that chicken again in February.
raven
@lamh36: Seems like last week.
dmsilev
@max: It took both of them to make this happened. If either the White House or the Senate Democrats had wavered, this would have had a very different ending.
Lurking Canadian
I was going to post a link to that but I was afraid to jinx things. That dude is a steely-eyed missile man.
gogol's wife
@lamh36:
My feelings exactly.
Birthmarker
This turned up over at DKos, in a post about RedState commenters.
wexwuther
Kentucky can go to hell in a handbasket. The people there are flocking to the ACA. We should bring to this fight the discipline of the union workers who hold firm on their strikes and suffer on principle. There can be no worse patriotic move right now than to sign up for Obamacare just to save a few hundred bucks a month. It will end up costing America much more than that.
DougJ, is that you?
Trollhattan
@lamh36:
The Begala Tweet is pretty funny–encapsulates the baggers perfectly. If we lose, it’s because we’re perfect!
dmsilev
Hey everybody, meet the new conservative talking point, the Kentucky Kickback!
Mitch McConnell _literally_ sold them out! RINO Hunt! RedState Strike Force is GO!
SarahT
Dear President Obama,
As a long-time supporter & great admirer of yours, I have a small favor to ask of you:
If it’s not too much trouble, once this deal is passed by both houses of Congress, can you please appear on live TV (preferably from that room with the red carpet where you told us about the death of Bin Laden) and announce that Cruz, Meese, DeMint, et al have been arrested and sent to Gitmo ? Treason, Sedition, whatever – you pick. And then can you please hold up a Confederate flag and piss all over it ?
Thank you very much, Mr. President – you’re the best.
eemom
hey Cole, are you gonna sell us to Greenwald?
JPL
@Birthmarker: It’s not Doug cuz he would add, where do I sign up?
PsiFighter37
Heh, looks like McConnell snuck in an extra $2 billion of pork for a dam in Kentucky.
I’m not going to begrudge him for it…but this is why earmarks are necessary in politics – they help incentivize politicians to work together.
That said, I bet the Teabaggers are going to rip him a new one over this.
jl
@lamh36: I think both Obama and Reid played a big role. Obama never gave an indication at all he would cave, and the racists GOPers simply could not believe it. Would have been nice to have some pics of the GOPers expression walking out of that recent meeting that Boehner described as ‘negotiations’.
Reid played an important role in reminding the GOP that any bill would have to pass the Senate, and unlike some other leaders, he could get a working majority to agree on something. Also nice how the Senate Dem concessions got small and smaller and smaller….
Both played a big role.
And I wanna see Reid (Lion of the Senate) roar in a lion suit.
Maybe have to settle for Reid riding around DC on a white horse.
But, Obama is the ultimate head of the Dems, so if he had weakened, the Senate Dems would not have been able to stand as strong as they did (and I think some were just dying to cave when the pressure was on).
Trollhattan
He’s beginning to sound like somebody railing against the Panama Canal. How’d that turn out, anyway?
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37: See my comment a screen or so up. They’ve already given it a cutesy name (the Kentucky Kickback).
Trollhattan
@jl:
Anne Romney is going to be PISSED if he does that.
dmsilev
@Trollhattan: He’s starting to sound like Joe McCarthy in the late stages of his alcohol poisoning. Either that or General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. “Fluids, Mandrake”
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@max:
Yeah, because when Obama said “you get nothing” he really meant “here, have chained CPI and social security” right?
Right?
jl
@dmsilev: Kenucky Kickback Katastrophe. That/s a catchy name for it. Will be popular in some teabagger quarters.
Baud
All the Dems deserve praise for sticking together, in both the House and Senate, and with Obama.
Emma
@Birthmarker: Ye gods. So you have two kids, both of whom have asthma and no insurance. And you’re going to be patriotic and let them choke to death because of the price of the inhaler being beyond your means? Or you have had prostate cancer and no insurance because of a “pre-existing condition” rule and you’re not going to buy yourself a policy because you’re the one who’s going to hold the line against Obamacare?
Are they even human, for God’s sake?
jl
@Trollhattan: It WAS prophesied. I’ll have to pay more attention to those Mormon prophecies (if they have any more).
Was there something about a black man chewing nicorette in the prophesy?
lamh36
@jenn: @gogol’s wife: @jl:
I absolutely agree with this. It was both of them
but the usual suspects who were screaming the loudest that Obama would cave and give away the store, need another meme to push so that they can continue to feed their Obama is somehow weak meme.
So the “I sure hope Obama doesn’t cave” concern-trolling becomes “Woo boy, thank goodness for Harry Reid, Senate Dems, Nancy Pelosi (or anyone else but…) cause we know Obama WANTED/WOULD’VE caved…”
I see it and I’m just kinda tired of it right now.
lamh36
deleted…duplicate
jeffreyw
Yeah, but… I’ve Got This
PsiFighter37
The other thing I find hilarious is the the Teabaggers think this will turn out for them when we have to deal with this shit 3(!) months down the road. Are these dumbasses crossing their fingers and hoping the political climate is drastically different then? Because that is literally the only reason Obama wouldn’t flip them the bird and tell them to shove it.
Cassidy
fixieded I did
PsiFighter37
@dmsilev: I bet Reid was more than happy to stick it in there, knowing it would give McConnell a shitload a grief in doing so.
As long as it helps make Senator Grimes more of a possibility come January 2015, I’m all for it.
Lurking Canadian
@PsiFighter37: the dam thing is real? It’s not just some tea bagged bullshit?
Davis X. Machina
@Emma:
Freedom™ isn’t Free™.
(Freedom™, and Free™, are registered trademarks of the Republican National Committee. Used with permission. All rights reserved.)
Bubblegum Tate
@JGabriel:
If I had 1%er money, I would buy a bunch of those places and immediately turn them into low-income housing.
PaulW
Andrew Sullivan is starting to think that Obama’s compromising back in 2011 was all a plan to make the Republicans self-destruct like this in 2013, since the Far Right was convinced Obama would cave this time as well, and pushed for more egregious demands that backfired spectacularly on the GOP.
Meep.
Motherf-cking.
Meep.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: Has anyone seen Banksy’s latest? Probably better on a Tom Levenson or Kay thread, but w’evs.
PaulW
Just one thing: has the vote been finalized yet?
Because this sh-t ain’t over until it’s over.
Omnes Omnibus
@PaulW: The House could always go stupid.
PsiFighter37
@Omnes Omnibus: I have a few folk on FB who quite excited about Banksy. Art is great, but is he/she really worth all the commotion?
@PaulW: Even the biggest Obot here won’t claim that’s the kind of 11-dimensional chess he was playing. But that would be quite impressive if that was the case.
dmsilev
@PaulW: Senate is voting now. First a cloture vote for some reason, then the actual vote (I guess the 30-hour rule has been waived or something)
MikeJ
@dmsilev: What’s particularly silly about the dam project whinging is that it’s already half built. All they got was funding to finish it. Look at how much has already been dumped into it, and imagine if the teabaggers got it killed. Already $1.5 billion spent.
http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks/Navigation/LocksandDams/OlmstedLocksandDam.aspx
raven
What if we get hit by a meteor?
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37:
I think that really is their plan. I refer you to the apocryphal definition of insanity.
piratedan
@PaulW: so the Pres pulled the Corbomite Maneuver on the GOP?
lamh36
@PsiFighter37: agreed. I just think Obama has learned from past mistakes.
Just like on the campaign trail, in ’08 and ’12. I’m reminded of the first debate where Obama was panned. Well there can be no doubt that the next debates and in the VP debate, the Obama had learned the mistakes from the first debate and was killer afterwards.
priscianus jr
@cathyx: It should say, I got this for the next 4 months.
He’s gonna cave, man. He caves every time.
JPL
@Omnes Omnibus: Have you seen Exit through the Gift Shop? Banksy is amazing.
Pogonip
@lamh36: The American people are rising up to declare we intend to vote these assholes out. We want NEW assholes (which sounds like it could get uncomfortable…)
I want to speak up in Cathy X’s defense. Any Federal employee can tell you that this will indeed happen again in 3 months. We will also tell you that lurching from continuing resolution to continuing resolution ain’t no way to run a railroad, or a government. I don’t think you should scold Cathy for acknowledging reality (don’t you pride yourselves on being the reality-based community?). I’m sure Pres. Obama is planning for January 15 even as we speak, and that’s exactly what he should be doing.
Turgidson
@lamh36:
Yep. When the rumors leaked out that the granny-starver and Boehner were talking grand bargain in connection with the standoff – without any indication that Obama was involved or would do anything but tell them to cram it – we got a nice headcount of the people who have to fit all political stories into the “Obama sold us out – or would have, if we progressive heroes hadn’t stamped our feet so loud!” narrative. I enjoy billmon generally, but he’s one of the very worst in this regard. Many of these same people would turn on a hypothetical President Elizabeth Warren within a month as soon as she had to start cutting deals that didn’t deliver ponies and unicorns and actually govern.
Omnes Omnibus
@PsiFighter37:
Probably. He’s been doing satirical and politic graffiti as serious art for 20 years. He has a Academy award nomination for a documentary that he did. And he is vaguely associated with the band Massive Attack. That’s off the top of my head. The serious art people could probably say more.
JPL
@dmsilev: Hopefully, the vote is smooth, because I’m tired of linking to Robert Costa to find out what the whackos are thinking. It just makes me feel dirty.
priscianus jr
@lamh36: So it’s NEVER Obama is it, yet when things don’t go the way ya want, then it’s ALL about Obama.
The truth is, they were on the same team, it’s not a zero-sum game. Harry Reid really did a fantastic job. There wasn’t a single Democrat that was not on the team. But Obama is team captain.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Lurking Canadian: Yup, it’s real. I looked up the section in the bill, which is an amendment to a 1988 law appropriating money for, among other things, dam and lock construction on the Ohio River.
When I first heard about it, the only places I could find it reported were winger sites, so I had to make sure the sky really was blue, yanno?
Besides, the wingers were talking like it was a new appropriation, which can’t start in the Senate. I knew they had to have gotten something wrong.
Omnes Omnibus
@Pogonip: Of course it will happen again in 3 months. And it won’t go any better for the GOP the next time.
Randy P
@PsiFighter37:
When you realize it started with his folks calling Hawaii long-distance from Kenya to place the fake birth announcement in 1961, you realize the dude plays a long game.
MikeJ
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: And from their FAQ: The completed project will have net annual benefits of approximately $640 million – returning more than the construction costs in less than five years.
priscianus jr
@Trollhattan: as he vowed to continue his crusade against the law commonly known as Obamacare.
… and destroy what’s left of the Republican Party.
Cassidy
@Omnes Omnibus: Nor the people who get sent home without a paycheck.
lamh36
@priscianus jr: as I said in my second comment, I agree that it was a joint effort
raven
@Pogonip: So you need to be told the obvious over and over?
Thymezone
I blame Balloon-Juice for all of it. All of it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cassidy: I agree. November of 2014 is a big deal.
@Thymezone: Even the good stuff?
Cassidy
@raven: That’s a little simplistic don’t you think?
Anya
@PaulW: Doesn’t the NYT story contradict that. I read it as Obama getting disgusted with the compromise he made with the lunatics and vowing never to allow these assholes to hold the country hostage again.
taylormattd
@Cain: Who the hell is this?
taylormattd
@Cain: Who the hell is this?
Elie
@dmsilev:
Abofuckinglutely
Steeplejack (tablet)
@eemom:
That was snarktrollery.
raven
@Cassidy: no
IowaOldLady
I personally am enjoying the win. They don’t come often enough, and this one came from the Rs being jaw-droppingly incompetent. I’ll worry about the next battle tomorrow.
JPL
Not all federal workers can afford a two week unpaid holiday. If they had to obtain loans to help them out, that is money lost on the interest they paid. Small businesses depending on the parks being opened aren’t going to be reimbursed. What was the point of all this? The only company that appears to have lucked out is the chicken company that had salmonella contamination.
taylormattd
@MikeJ: Mike, you forgot to mention that they will also use the word “kabuki” multiple times.
RevRick
Thank you Mr. President. Thank you Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi. The good guys won!
Elie
@Randy P:
LOL!! so true — so true
kc
@PaulW:
LOL! Of course I don’t buy it, but I’m gonna go troll the hell out of some wingnuts with that.
JPL
@Elie: Did u mean absofuckinglutely?
Omnes Omnibus
@Anya: I think that this time around there is no burning incentive to compromise for the Dems. What would be in it for them? Embarrassment and another hostage situation is a short time. If the GOP is going to force it to happen again and again, our side should at least make them keep losing and taking the blame.
@JPL:
Ask the Republicans.
Villago Delenda Est
Well, the teatards are going to come out in force in the GOP primary to punish the turtle for his apostasy.
Please proceed, morons.
magurakurin
@piratedan:
not chess, Mr. Spock…poker.
Elie
@Turgidson:
You got that right… yep. There is their “IDEALS” (footnote – never achievable in reality) and how the world actually works and what you need to do to be in the real world. Ironically, you see what happens when reality and the laws of gravity get forgotten by watching this outcome for the Republicans. But never mind, the left progs can never appreciate that reality and their widdle bwains may not be on the same plane.
dmsilev
Cloture passes 83-16. Proceeding immediately to final vote.
Poopyman
@Omnes Omnibus: That. Is. Awesome.
More power to Banksy!
Thymezone
@Omnes Omnibus:
Why do you hate America?
gelfling545
@Trollhattan: Really, they are going to have to start doing psych evaluations on people who want to run for office. Cruz, Gohmert, & their ilk shouldn’t be allowed to wander about alone, much less be in a position of responsibility.
Elie
@JPL:
Yes. sorry. Having a glass or two of wine and “mistakes were made”
JPL
@Villago Delenda Est: Kentucky should run a tea party candidate even if Mitch wins the primary. That will show them…
This message comes from the Grimes campaign… haha
MikeJ
@Turgidson:
If the ghost of Eugene V. Debs were elected they’d be pouting over the equine shortage.
Elie
@RevRick:
HELLYEAH!!!!!!!
Turgidson
@PaulW:
I don’t think he was thinking that far ahead at the time, but as with Syria, I think he showed adaptability and a willingness to seize a new opportunity in that he understood that the Republicans would bash themselves against the concrete wall of his refusal repeatedly this time, thinking he would eventually come to the table with some juicy entitlement cuts (or some such concessions) that they could then campaign against Democrats in 2014 with. And letting them believe it, and then do it, made this a bigger political win than it might have been otherwise.
Ella in New Mexico
Especially after finding out my hubby get’s ALL of his furloughed days paid back to him, I think that THIS personal message to all those Tea Party Anarchists is even MORE fitting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo
I wish I could find a way to have it blast into their offices at random intervals for the next 24 hours.
Omnes Omnibus
@Thymezone: Because I am a pointy-headed, Saab driving, latte drinking, wine sipping, over-educated liberal elite type. Duh.
Cassidy
IOW, the daily Balloon Juice posts coming from mix, AL, and Cole?
JPL
What are they voting for now?
Elie
@IowaOldLady:
You must not worry. Seize the moment and take a deep breath. Relax and enjoy for a moment. Future battles are on us soon enough —appreciate this moment and savor — it is fleeting…
lamh36
Where is DougJ and why haven’t we had a #GOPplayist thread yet. Seems like it would be right up his alley!
Some good ones:
Boyz II Men – End of the Road
And of course for Boehner: Smokey Robinson & The Miracles-The Tears Of A Clown
elftx
Sen. Mike Lee twittered: Media keep asking, was it worth it? My answer: Always worth it to do the right thing
Roger Simon responded: Gag me with spoon.
Simon has seriously been cracking me up
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Let’s wait until it is signed.
OT: Watching Aisha Tyler having drinks in Paris on the Esquire network.
JPL
Why doesn’t Cspan have up the numbers in the corner.. ugh..
dmsilev
@JPL: Senate is voting on final passage; cloture passed with 83 votes and I guess somehow the 30 hour waiting period got waived.
MikeJ
@lamh36:
Too bad such a drag, oh
So much pain down the drain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WazSFyRl-zA
Elie
Seriously — I prayed that Boehner would find the strength to capitulate. I prayed that he would value our government and our existence enough to do that — that he would be willing to collapse and take the abuse — the thorns. He WAS — praise be.
Poopyman
I have no problem having the Republicans shit all over themselves periodically for the next year with CR after CR. As long as it keeps their inabilities and instabilities in full public view leading up to the election.
And I say that as someone who has been out of work since Sequestration started. And let me tell you, there was NO WAY the govt or contractors were hiring for the last 6 weeks.
WereBear
@elftx: But it wasn’t the right thing! By any measure!
PsiFighter37
@elftx: I’ll be happy to oblige Simon. Does he prefer metal or plastic, or would a spork be better?
sparrow
@Caravelle: She’s just using her weasel words to confuse you. You see, when you talk to the monied class you say things like “this luxury apartment is a great investment. You don’t say “this luxury apartment is a grotesque testament to your personal vanity”. It’s a sales pitch.
Omnes Omnibus
@PsiFighter37: Wooden and big.
Yatsuno
@PaulW: The Senate is still bloviating. I swear they’re dragging this out on purpose.
PsiFighter37
Anyone have the list of the 16 dead-enders who voted against cloture in the Senate? I sure do hope Sir Rand and Marco Rubio jumped on Teddy’s sinking ship.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Can anyone convert the legalese on page 24-27 of the Senate Bill (the Default Prevention Act of 2013) into English? It seems to take the debt ceiling off the table as a way to destroy the government – all Obama has to do is to send a letter to Congress after February 7 saying that the debt limit has to be suspended to pay for things that Congress has approved. They can say, “We don’t like it.” But that’s about it.
Is that all it says? Did the Republicans really give up the debt ceiling cudgel??
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
MikeJ
@sparrow:
Another way of saying, “there’s always a bigger sucker than you down the road.”
CaseyL
I tuned into CPSAN late; the banner along the bottom says the deal has been passed, but they still seem to be counting votes (Grassley voted “no”).
So I don’t know whether the deal has actually been voted on, or just cloture and now they’re voting on the actual bill.
Howard Beale IV
@SarahT: We’ll see how that plays out com the end of January if/when Obama signs the Granbd Bargain Act (or whatever the fuck they’ll misname it, like the PATRIOT Act and the other horribly named Acts that do a complete 180 of what they were labeled…..)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@elftx: I have a theory, which is mine, and which is: Mike Lee is not that bright.
Thymezone
@Omnes Omnibus:
I applaud your confession. Admitting your own deficits is the first step :-)
CarolDuhart2
Im surprised that they would ask for a period so quickly after Christmas. It would seem to me to be a better deal to postpone this after the elections and gamble on a larger majority in the House and Senate. Doing so would cool the waters enough for the markets and possibly save some seats through apathy.
No apathy now.
dmsilev
Passes the Senate, 81-18. Wonder who voted for cloture but not for passage.
On to the House.
Bex
@SectarianSofa: Twirling yourself around a fork.
Thymezone
@Omnes Omnibus:
Also too, you left out your insatiable appetite for arugula.
lamh36
Ugh, this mitch here…
Elizabelle
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo):
Mr. or Mme Hayduke:
why did you change your name?
And where is judas escargot? One of my favorite ‘nyms ever.
CaseyL
OK, the debt ceiling bill passed; now they’re going to vote on the budget bill which will re-open the government if it passes.
… or were both items in the same bill? The Senate is voting on something that has to do with the budget. I think.
aimai
I really would like a copy of that poster. I wish the President would send one out with the next fundraiser instead of a picture of the stupid dog. And I also wish that Joe Biden would tape himself reminiscing about what it was like in the White House and who said what to whom while this was going down. Yes, I would LITERALLY like him to do that. And I want a pony, too.
Omnes Omnibus
@dmsilev:
Don’t know, but I think is a respectable position to take with respect to most legislation.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: Chuckles, being as stupid as ever. How the fuck did this asshole manage to become NBC’s chief White House correspondent?
SarahT
@Howard Beale IV: sore loser much ?
? Martin
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I read on it is that Obama will notify Congress he is issuing more debt. They can vote against that, he can veto their objection, they can override his veto.
So, Congress can look like their opposing it but have much less power to actually oppose it. It’s a sunday show GOP talking point factory.
lamh36
@NBCNews 14s
JUST IN: Pres. Obama to make statement to press at 8:25pET
jl
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I can’t figure it out after first page.
I understood the news reports to say that after the President authorizes increase in debt limit under this bill, majorities in House and Senate can prevent the increase, but President can veto it with no recourse.
So I read it as a micro fig leaf that allows House to make PR stink when debt limit actually raised now, but a stink that can’t stop the increase. I never read that the House GOP gave up right to try to hold debt hostage after Feb 17 next year.
Betty Cracker
@PsiFighter37: Rubio said earlier he would vote against the bill. He’s an idiot.
Poopyman
@lamh36: Yo! Chuckles! Only one party needs to apologize, and the Republicans never apologize. So go ahead! Hold your breath and wait.
kc
@lamh36:
What a maroon. What a nincowpoop . . .
lamh36
dmsilev
@CaseyL: What just passed was a combination CR/debt ceiling hike, i.e. “The Deal”. What is being voted on now I think is related to the Senate’s proposed budget for 2014, i.e. the instructions to the budget conferees.
bodacious
Kind of interesting watching the live feed from the Senate vote. Everyone sort of milling around, but Cruz is awkwardly trying to find someone to talk to. The body language if fascinating. Not the rock star that Eric sired son of Erick gives him.
Botsplainer
McConnell merely went back to his wardheeler roots for the Olmsted project. It had to feel pretty damned good to get back to business the old-timey way. He used to be pretty good at hauling back pork, and could get good at it again.
Fucking Cruz is making him look like a statesman worthy of re-election.
Anne Laurie
@Caravelle:
You have to understand: The “investment” is in how they look to other rich people. That’s why “the views” are all-important — it’s all about who the new buyer will be looking down on / overlooking. Thorstein Veblen, the Reckoning…
You read any stories about the current art market? Critic after critic bemoaning the pointless giantism and overinflation where ‘name brand’ Serious Artists let their managers set up warehouses (literally, factories!) where faceless assistants churn out ever-bigger works that the Great Man can slap his signature on. It’s like a farcical version of the Medici, or the wealthy burghers bidding up Rembrandts… except I somehow misdoubt that even a hundred years from now, the names ‘Jeff Koons’ or ‘Damien Hirsch’ will be known except to art historians hunting for suitably obscure PhD topics!
chopper
@jackmac:
i guess boehner is fredo. “i’m SMAHT!”
Yatsuno
@CaseyL: Jeebus. I hope they didn’t split the two. That could give the House the ability to raise the debt ceiling but keep the government shut down. And much less pressure now to reopen since Grandma would still get her SS check.
@jl: I could also see the House refusing to give up their favourite weapon like that, stripping it out, then send it back to the Senate. I cannot see the Teatards accepting that.
jl
@? Martin: I didn’ t read that Congress could over ride. Anyway, it is a fig leaf since a disapproval vote would never pass the Senate, and an over ride vote would not get 2/3s. Whatever. Still a dinky figleaf. I wouldn’t want to walk around wearing it. But maybe that is just me.
Poopyman
@PsiFighter37:
He’s the best they’ve got. Really, can you think of anyone better over there? (No fair pointing at the ficus.)
Bostondreams
And apparently they learned nothing at all.
It’s all Obama and the evil media and in fact they will win in the long run.
rikyrah
Thank you, Mr. President.
and lamh,
I HEAR YOU!
BOY, do I ever hear you.
The President can’t get credit for anything..
Betty Cracker
Wow, Reid, Schumer and Durbin are taking turns kicking the GOP in the nuts. Next up, Patty Murray.
chopper
@PaulW:
it aint over til the fat gooper derps.
Howard Beale IV
@SarahT: Only in the fullness of time will we see what actually happens now, won’t we?
Remember: “An ounce of image is worth a pound of performance.”
Corollary: “Image kills.”
WereBear
PRESIDENT will deliver a statement shortly…
MikeJ
@Betty Cracker:
As one of her constituents, my message to her: “cut their balls off.”
muddy
@JPL: @Elie: I thought it was a sly comment about Andrew Sullivan.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: They are thanking Mitch a tad to much though. We will give you two billion and a thank you..
lamh36
Gotta love this from Harry Reid:
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Yep. It’s good stuff.
dmsilev
@Betty Cracker:
You just know that they’ve been saving up those remarks for the last month or two. Patty Murray up now.
lamh36
ranchandsyrup
NO votes on deal
Coburn
Cornyn
Crapo
Cruz
Enzi
Grassley
Heller
Johnson-WI
Lee
Paul
Risch
Roberts
Rubio
Scott
Sessions
Shelby
Toomey
Vitter
MikeJ
@JPL:
It’s actually a good project, and that $3 billion is largely going in the pockets of union construction people.
Omnes Omnibus
@ranchandsyrup: Johnson of WI is interesting. He has been getting beaten up pretty badly by local Tea folk recently. Looks like he want to shore up his asshole cred.
dmsilev
Murray: “We will have a negotiation, not a hostage situation”
I sincerely hope so.
Birthmarker
@Turgidson: Yes, they will absolutely come up with ss and medicare cuts then badger dems with them in November.
The question is, “Is our Dems learning?”
Thymezone
@lamh36:
DougJ is surely spoofing some of the posts on this thread. It’s how he got his start on BJ and nobody is better at it than he is.
C. Isaac
The Guardian’s blog on the vote is devolving into snark.
Omnes Omnibus
@Birthmarker: They are building a wooden badger?
MikeJ
@dmsilev: They sent Murrray in to negotiate and she doesn’t have to worry about keeping her seat. She could be caught with a live girl and a dead boy and still walk away with her next election.
dmsilev
President Obama speaking now.
Pogonip
To whoever was looking for a Federal job: did you try the many, many DOD agencies? DOD is almost always hiring somewhere. These days you have to have college even to get in at the GS-4 level, though, which may explain why DOD is always hiring!
PurpleGirl
Looks like there were a bunch of good posts and comment threads; I was either watching kittens or the Sinatra “The Manchurian Candidate” with the computer turned off.
Elizabelle
@ranchandsyrup:
It is the Coalition of the Stoopid.
Michaela is already more mature.
President Obama is speaking. Woo hoo. He’ll have more to say tomorrow.
I would love to hear what he has to say tonight, over a martini in the White House.
jl
@C. Isaac: Maybe Obama can speak after both chambers vote? Why not? Get twofer PR on it.
I’ll wait for the statement after the House votes.
“You wanna piece of me, huh? How do you like me now, suckers? Huh, you want another piece of me next time, losers?”
Yatsuno
@MikeJ: Patty will be the senior Senator from Washington as long as she fucking wants. The only way she could lose is changing to an R. Plus anyone who knows her backstory knows she is tough as fuck. I lurves both me Senate critters.
Comrade Mary
Obama speaking now (live stream).
Betty Cracker
President being the grown up. I really hope he writes a book when this is all over.
Comrade Mary
OK, he wrapped up quickly. Didn’t take any questions, including the plaintive “Mr. President, won’t this happen again in a few months?”.
GregB
@ranchandsyrup:
That is the Mount Rushmore of dildos.
dmsilev
@Comrade Mary: He did actually answer that as he was walking away. One word response: “No”
Hopefully prophetic.
gogol's wife
@Elie:
Yes, praise be.
And I have to say, when I called Rep. De Lauro’s office in the midst of the crisis just to see if they could say anything to reassure me, and the staffer kept starting to explain things to me and I’d say, “I know, I know, the Hastert rule,” etc., he said, “You are VERY well informed.” Thanks to BJ, baby!
Helen
@lamh36: OMG. It’s a night for awesome news. I cannot wait for the discovery in this lawsuit.
JPL
At some point the President is gonna have to learn to kick them when they are down. That is how he disappointed me with his comments. I’m tired of having a President trying to appeal to all citizens. Where’s the codpiece.
haha
Ted & Hellen
Cole, as much as I like you, you can always be depended on to sooner or later revert to Fan Boy behavior, regardless of your allegiances.
Did GWB also say “ECTFO, IGT?”
And when he did so, did his natural, masculine, dominance also send chills up your inner thighs?
Birthmarker
@Howard Beale IV: As in the words of John Kerry, “They all have these Orwellian names…”
ranchandsyrup
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m sure there is no shortage of candidates to primary him. Any you think would do well against him?
@Elizabelle: Martinis sound lovely. :)
dmsilev
Current CSPAN caller needs a tinfoil hat, stat.
gogol's wife
@Bex:
LOL
C. Isaac
From the CNN blog, Dana Bash is worried that Repubs might let hurt fee-fees impact the whip on the vote:
Tripod
@Comrade Mary:
That was after the presser? CSPAN had the camera on him walking out the door – he stopped dead in his tracks, turned around, and said no.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie:
Damien Hirst might get some interest though.
gogol's wife
@lamh36:
FROM EITHER PARTY? FROM EITHER PARTY? FROM EITHER PARTY?
Sorry for yelling.
Thymezone
@Ted & Hellen:
Yes, actually he did. “I’m the decider.” What did people think he meant by that? Besides “I’m the deciderator,” maybe?
slightly_peeved
@Anne Laurie: My bet is that people will talk about one of today’s artists as one of the greats. The guy that just unveiled that Ronald McDonald statue in the Bronx.
Brian R.
@Cain:
Blow it out your ass, and enjoy the death spiral of your party of sociopaths.
Wilson Heath
Via Wonkblog:
“In Rabbit Hash, Ky., a Border Collie named Lucy Lou defeated 10 dogs, a cat, a possum, a jackass and even one human to become the town’s third animal mayor—all dogs—since 1998, says Bobbi Kayser, the current mayor’s owner.”
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304500404579127644142609328?mod=trending_now_3
We clearly need more (four-legged) animals in the House. I for one would welcome our new overlords.
PsiFighter37
@ranchandsyrup: Apparently Obama writing a nice piece on him for the Time 100 doesn’t seem to be doing much.
Omnes Omnibus
@ranchandsyrup: It will be in 2016. I am more focused on 2014 right now.
Elizabelle
@Ted & Hellen:
small beer, dude.
Be happy.
WereBear
@Comrade Mary: And I LOVED the way he said, “No.”
Hill Dweller
@C. Isaac: They really are children.
jl
@C. Isaac: The House GOP is stuck. Vote it down, same day they said the media ‘betrayed’ them? And then complain they did because their feelings were hurt. Then they’d be on the hook to resolve it again.
Think what the next Senate Dem ‘concessions’ would look like? Something like House GOPer have to wear a ‘kick me’ sign when they go back to their districts and send out flyers with instructions on how to sign up for Obamacare with their franking privilege?
JCJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
Doesn’t it just pain you that Ron Johnson is one of our senators? It sure does me!
MikeJ
@C. Isaac:
Pretty please, with sugar on top?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZRUaDGW7WQ
Xecky Gilchrist
OK, the first few seconds of this about cover the situation: http://youtu.be/r3nUa2MgSeY?t=15s
slightly_peeved
@jl:
He could quote his predecessor, president Lincoln:
Omnes Omnibus
@JCJ: Walker is doing more damage but, goddamn, Johnson is an asshole.
lamh36
@C. Isaac: POTUS and FLOTUS reactions to GOP whining.
Botsplainer
In another proud moment for conservatism, the Teanut from my district has scrubbed the shit out of comments on his facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/RepThomasMassie?ref=stream
It had been running half and half with a bunch of harsh commentary hating on Teabigots making up the negative half (I was probably the least respectful, which means I was snarky and rude as shit). After scrubbing, the thing is 75% pro-Teatard, with milquetoast making up the oppo. On top of that, I think you have to like him to post, or he’s blocked me.
Fuck him – daddy bought his seat, daddy can spend to help him keep it.
Mike E
@Omnes Omnibus: What you did there, I seen it.
ETA my daughter’s school put on Spamalot, they were very good.
PsiFighter37
@C. Isaac: Bunch of diaper-shitting babies. They’re less mature than five year-olds.
Helen
Chuckles Todd talking about how “everyone” has to apologize. SHUT UP Chuckles.
C. Isaac
@jl:
I fear for what happens if the House GOP suffers true mental meltdown and votes down the Senate bill, but one thing I know for sure — it ends the Republican party. There’d be no hiding the sheer wrongheadedness of it. They’d have to own it. It’d be the GOP Depression and it’d be a very painful lesson.
I also wouldn’t be completely surprised, either.
Brian R.
@Ted & Hellen:
Stamp your feet harder. No one gives a shit what you think.
ranchandsyrup
@GregB: LOL. That’s an insult to dildos, though. They bring happiness to at least some people.
PaulW
Ranting about the damage done by the Far Right.
http://noticeatrend.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-long-october-and-damage-done.html
Yatsuno
@Elizabelle: Projection. Timmeh is a 12 theatre multiplex.
Irony Abounds
Nobody should be gloating tonight because now that the CR and Debt Limit news will be coming to an end the press can focus on what an absolute clusterfuck the healthcare exchanges are. The website is a complete disaster, and the phone assistance absolutely sucks as well. After many many attempts just to input information and get my identity verified just so I could begin the application process, once I start the application process the “Next” button simply does not work. The “Live Chat” helps says it is due to high volume and glitches that they are working on and I should use the phone assistance. When I call the phone assistance, I am put on hold for 10 minutes then transferred to the survey that I agreed to take AFTER I had spoken to a representative. All this just so I can get a policy that apparently will cost me 40-60% more than my current policy for comparable coverage. I can’t keep my current policy because it was not in force on the cutoff date back in 2010. Makes it difficult for me to extol the virtues of the ACA when at the moment the thought of it makes me so angry.
Too bad the mid-terms aren’t this November, because we could beat the shit out of the Republicans. The people who will be happiest with the ACA aren’t mid-term election voters by and larger, while those most adversely impacted are. Unless the Republicans step on their own dicks again between now and November 2014 I have a bad feeling about what will happen.
Anya
@C. Isaac: They are truly a bunch of adolescents dealing identity issues.
jl
@C. Isaac: Who knows what the House GOP will do? They are nuts. I hope they approve the Senate bill, and if they want to feel pre-humiliated as well as post, too bad.
BTW, my comment was replying to the twitty tweet in your coment, not you.
Brian R.
@Helen:
They can apologize once Chuck Todd apologizes for huffing that fact checking isn’t his job.
ranchandsyrup
@Omnes Omnibus: Siri, make an appointment to bother Omnes in a year.
Thymezone
@Helen:
Todd is the Wolf Blitzer of MSNBC.
Elizabelle
@Yatsuno:
How do they alert you to go back in? Will you get a text tonight? Will you go in Friday?
Yea Feds!
PaulW
@C. Isaac:
That would be terrifying, but I think Boehner is letting this get to the floor for a vote – no Hastert Rule blocking it – and it will have, SHOULD HAVE, all the Democratic votes (217 I believe), which only needs about 25 Republicans cross the aisle to pass it. Considering the Senate overwhelmingly voted for it (81 votes) meaning a large number of Republicans there went with it, it should provide enough political cover for the Republicans in Obama-friendly districts to vote the deal in.
fuckwit
@jenn: Three of them! Don’t forget NANCY SMASH!!
jl
@Irony Abounds: That is too bad. But I thought you could shop the exchanges without registering now. And is the quote you got before or after subsidies?
lamh36
RT @EvanMcSan: Obama will speak to the nation again tomorrow at 10:35a ET, per WH
Baud
@Helen:
The funny part of Chucky’s comment is that Obama did apologize for the shutdown a week ago.
fuckwit
@Irony Abounds: Maybe once the federal employees are back on the job and getting paid, they can fix the fucking thing.
Mike E
Chris Hayes is on fire: GOP. Their media. Think tanks. All LIARS!
His sum up/mash up of pop bits was quite good too. Also.
ETA vvv OHAI TIMMY!! vvv
Ted & Hellen
@Brian R.:
Ahhh…your little kool kid membership gives you relevance, at least in your mind, Fan Boy. I see how you think that works.
But see, the thing, is…it doesn’t work. Not at all.
You’re still just a fan boy looking for a sense of belonging on the Intertrons.
And Barack Obama doesn’t give one smelly fart about you.
Anoniminous
@PaulW:
200 Dems in the House.
Need 217 total votes to pass.
lamh36
@psddluva4evah1m
POTUS and FLOTUS reaction to GOP whining about POTUS speaking
first:
https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/390640765321240576
https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/390640813383761920
SatanicPanic
Well, I’m glad my own prediction that we’d go over the debt ceiling seems wrong. And I can’t wait for the House to vote so I can start making jokes on my FB page.
Soonergrunt
@Lurking Canadian: Yes, it’s real, and just because it’s an earmark for a Republican Senator (even McConnell) doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a bad thing.
This dam will bring enhanced flood control, better electrification to rural areas in Kentucky, Ohio, and Illinois, and more jobs to the region, as well as increased recreational opportunities.
max
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): Yeah, because when Obama said “you get nothing” he really meant “here, have chained CPI and social security” right?
Well, 1) He said his schtick as he should have, he gave great press conference and then he got the hell out of the way and let Reid do what passed for negotiating, which Reid has brought home. Yay!
2) Please eat shit and die.
max
[‘Thanks. Have a nice day!’]
C. Isaac
Guardian is getting positively shrill! Someone get the fainting couches!
fuckwit
@WereBear: Damn that’s good to read.
Xecky Gilchrist
@jl: And is the quote you got before or after subsidies?
Pretty sure the talking point blast fax doesn’t take subsidies into account.
p.a.
Who put the Imperious curse on the Senate Blue Dogs? And will any House Blue Dogs defect?
MomSense
@Cassidy: @AxelFoley:
I have tremendous confidence in our President. I was talking to a gentleman who is in his late 80s. He was a classmate of Robert Kennedy at Harvard and now a super Obot. He told me that the American people don’t realize what an extraordinary man we have elected as our President and thinks that he will be considered one of the greats. This man has seen a lot in his many years on this planet and has a strong sense of history.
Now we just need to work our asses off to elect a Congress that will work with him and for our well being.
Soonergrunt
@Yatsuno: ” I lurves both me Senate critters.”
Must be nice.
jl
@Xecky Gilchrist: That crossed my mind. But we should watch what we say and what we do. The House GOP might take offense.
Ted & Hellen
This country will be politically retarded as long as its populace has this need, as often evidenced here at BJ, to take sides much more in accordance with the color of the home team’s uniforms than with anything specific the home team is actually doing or saying. There is almost no attempt to be even the slightest bit objective.
I say this as someone who thinks most of the Republicans are lying sacks of shit. But they couldn’t do most of the mischief they do without the coldheart enabling of the worthless wieniecrats.
Ted & Hellen
@MomSense:
Totally! The One cannot fail us! He can only BE failed. Now get out there and work!
(Or it could be that the old fart is senile…)
Mike E
ETA ^^^ Tim haz a sad!! ^^^
As the pres walked out of the WH press room, a reported shouted a question: Will we go thru this all over again in 2 months?
PBO (outta there): No.
MomSense
@lamh36:
I think Chuck Todd should apologize for carrying water for all the bullshit lies about the ACA that he never corrected. I think Chuck Todd should apologize for peddling the BS meme that it was both sides and the President wouldn’t negotiate blah, blah, blah unitl he saw the results of the polling that overwhelmingly blamed the Republicans. Only then did he start to say anything about how the Republicans were manufacturing this crisis.
Chuck Todd as much as anyone else has much to apologize for.
fuckwit
@PsiFighter37: It was NOT FUCKING 11th-DIMENSIONAL ANYTHING. It was just simple dignity, integrity, respect, and an unwavering belief in and committment to Democracy and the Constitution and America.
Obama drove me nuts in the beginning of his term– I was in full firebagger territory– until I figured out how he operates. He really does believe that compromise, comity, inclusiveness, and respectfulness are essential to the functioning of a peaceful democratic government, and will fight to defend THOSE much harder than to defend any particular policy…. and I can’t really argue with that if I think about it very long.
There was no way he’d ever let a small minority in one party in one house of one branch of government hold the whole country and the world economy hostage. Was never going to happen on his watch. That was the line not to be crossed again.
tybee
@lamh36:
i remember that and the ruckus raised. damn, i’m getting old.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Awesome. It seems weird that the “Summer” Olympics were held that late in the year.
pseudonymous in nc
@Soonergrunt:
That’s the kind of infrastructure project that’s worth spending billions on. See also: century-old bridges.
dan
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ymPpIzaanhY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DymPpIzaanhY
MomSense
@Ted & Hellen:
Extraordinary people make mistakes. I don’t know any Obots who think that the President is infallible or who agree with him all the time.
My neighbor is not senile–he is physically and mentally fit and the best thing about him is that he is really positive and enjoyable to be around. He has lots of friends and his family members who enjoy spending time with him. My kids love him because he says encouraging things to them and he remembers details about their lives and always asks questions about their studies and interests.
I think even you would enjoy his company and maybe some of his positive attitude and good nature would make an impression on you.
Mike E
@pseudonymous in nc: Plus, it’s alternative energy too. Also.
Mike E
@MomSense: Methinks personal unmediated interaction is not ass cleavage’s strong suit.
gogol's wife
@MomSense:
HaHa, nice try.
WereBear
@fuckwit: Beautifully put. And balls-on accurate.
taylormattd
@Howard Beale IV: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh, that’s good.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
But seriously, I am *so* very sorry for you that the country didn’t head into a depression. It must be just terrible to be declined another chance to revel in despair porn.
taylormattd
@Ted & Hellen:
Were you gazing longingly at a photo of St. Greenwald or Prince Snowden when you wrote that sentence?
ruemara
@Cassidy: I ain’t saying nothing, but I’m smirking because you’re right.
Felonius Monk
Corey Booker won U.S. Senate seat in NJ special election. Also picked up a Dem seat in House special election in Florida today.
Cassidy
You’re all thinking it.
Ripley
T&H, paint a picture, it’ll last longer.
Oh wait, no it won’t.
Irony Abounds
@jl: That’s the problem, I can’t even get to the point where I can complete an application to get quotes (the system does not allow you to get a quote until you complete an application). My estimate of the cost comes from the cost of comparable bronze level plans outside the exchange. Right now I’m paying around $300/month for a Blue Cross HSA PPO plan, and the cheapest PPO HSA I can find outside of the exchange is around $440. The only Blue Cross plan I will qualify for now is $505. I understand why rates have to go up for most people given elimination of the pre-existing condition provisions and the unlimited lifetime coverage, but changes like this are not going to sit well. Having an epic fail of a website for the exchanges just exacerbates the problem.
Redshirt
@MomSense: Obama’s the best damn President since FDR, easily. And for what he’ll do for this country long term, perhaps one day he’ll be one of the top 3. He’s amazing.
Is he perfect? Close, but no. But any so called mistakes are just that, honest, sincere mistakes. Who cares? He’s not lying to our faces.
Fuck the haters – fools all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Irony Abounds: I get the concerns about the website – but have you ever seen any web rollout go off without a hitch?
More importantly, why are you bitching about the price when you know you haven’t gone through the whole process and seen what your actual price will be? Also, if, for some reason, no subsidy applies for you, then you are no worse off than you are now – stay with your current plan.
Baud
@Irony Abounds:
I thought they changed the website so that you no longer have to register to look at the rates.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Irony Abounds: Have you tried the KFF Calculator? It might give you a ballpark estimate while they iron out the bugs in the federal exchange web site.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
ruemara
@MomSense: No. I would love for that to be so, but I do not believe it is possible for that to happen.
A Humble Lurker
@Ted & Hellen:
For all your talk of the evils of teams you can’t accept your guys’ loss gracefully, can you? Well, you can’t do anything gracefully, so no big surprise there I suppose.
@Betty Cracker:
I want books from Obama, Biden, Nancy SMASH and possibly Michelle. In particular, I would love if Biden wrote his book in the style of Onion Biden.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Humble Lurker:
You want him to write while shirtless, drinking a brew, and listening Van Halen?
scav
Tears & Howls are making quite the exhibition of themselves tonight. Quite the vernissage of dada sniveling.
A Humble Lurker
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes. Bonus points if it’s recorded and uploaded to Youtube.
Redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Released as an audiobook on 8 Track only. Hipster as fuck.
Pogonip
@Redshirt: I think that considering the Congress he has (and we have) been burdened with, Obama’s done an excellent job. And his sticking firmly to the principles of good governance seems to be finally forcing the talking heads and stenographers away from the both-sides do it. No matter how busy voters are, how little informed they are, nobody is going to believe that a grifter like Palin or a nutty Teabagger is really the same as a guy who calmly and logically explains why he doesn’t believe the country can run from crisis to crisis and so he intends to do his best to keep that from happening. With a more dramatic president they might have been able to gin up some both-sides foolishness, but Obama stuck strictly to the subject and so they had nothing to work with, and the people saw what was really going on, and nearly all of us sided with Obama.
Keith G
@FourMoreYears:
Lincoln, A. Johnson, FDR, and Truman for starters.
Irony Abounds
@Omnes Omnibus: You might want to dial your smug condescension back a bit. First, I have looked at the prices for all the non-exchange prices that also are designated bronze, silver, etc. It is highly unlikely that the exchange prices for comparable plans are going to be significantly better than plans outside the exchange. Second, you should have read my post a bit more carefully. I don’t have the option of keeping my existing plan. Under the ACA it is not a grandfathered plan (I started on it in January 2012 after the 2010 cut-off date). Hence, I have no plan as of January 1, 2014. So pardon me if I bitch a little about the situation.
As for your assertion that all web rollouts have problems, the problems healthcare.gov is having are not mere minor glitches. The site and the application process is virtually impossible to navigate to get to the end result. I realize there is still time to correct these things, but there is zero excuse for having such an ineptly designed website. It isn’t a matter of volume at this point – the manner in which it was developed was as inept as the TeaTards attempt to defund ObamaCare.
Oh, and I don’t qualify for any subsidies, which is fine, I don’t need those. Nonetheless, a 40+% increase in premiums is not exactly good news.
Irony Abounds
@Baud: The “window shopping” they allow is merely the base rate for the cheapest version of every plan. It does not take age into account. As someone getting up there I don’t qualify for those rates.
Cain
@Brian R.:
Hah, I wasn’t trolling dude. I’m an Obot. That picture used to come up a lot during the 2008 election when we’d be having an emotional roller coaster ride. Every time there was a triumph, that picture woudl show up. It’s literally is the batsignal to chill the fuck out. After all, he does got this.
Redshirt
@Pogonip: Awesome post. Upvoted 1, would upvote more.
Omnes Omnibus
@Irony Abounds: Okay. Bitch away. I hadn’t seen the fact that your plan is going away; it was in a different comment to that to which I was responding. Nevertheless, I still say it is a bit premature to bitch about the rates on the exchanges when you don’t know what the rates actually are. YMMV.
Sasha
“I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.”
— Voltaire (and, in light of recent events, presumably also Obama)
amk
@cathyx: In other words, that pic will get thrown in your firebagger face in another 4 months. I am cool with it.
Ted & Hellen
@Irony Abounds:
How dare you. How dare you fucking say something true.
Ted & Hellen
@Irony Abounds:
Don’t be silly.
It’s really good news to the health insurance industry.
Comrade Mary
@Irony Abounds:
Are you sure of that? Even plans in the same tier may show a broad range of prices, and you really have to look at them closely to decide which gives you the best bang for your buck. For example, here’s some comparisons of Colorado plans inside and outside of the exchanges.
This still seems like an incredible pain for you, and I’m sorry you have to deal with it, but you might find a plan inside the exchange that is more affordable.
(Also, I don’t get some of the acronyms you mentioned. Is your current insurance provided by your employer, or did you get it on your own? If it’s from your employer, are they going to pay you more now that they no longer have to pay part of your premiums?)
AxelFoley
@priscianus jr:
Snark or trollery?
AxelFoley
@Redshirt:
This.
priscianus jr
@AxelFoley: Snark or trollery?
The former, definitely.