Great piece of real reporting that is also entertaining:
I happened to turn on the Hannity show on Fox News last Friday evening. “Average Americans are feeling the pain of Obamacare and the healthcare overhaul train wreck,” Hannity announced, “and six of them are here tonight to tell us their stories.” Three married couples were neatly arranged in his studio, the wives seated and the men standing behind them, like game show contestants.
As Hannity called on each of them, the guests recounted their “Obamacare” horror stories: canceled policies, premium hikes, restrictions on the freedom to see a doctor of their choice, financial burdens upon their small businesses and so on.
“These are the stories that the media refuses to cover,” Hannity interjected.
But none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.
I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.
First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.
Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.
They’re all like that, so go read the rest.
Eric Stern lives in Helena, Montana. He was senior counsel to Brian Schweitzer, former Governor.
A couple of weeks ago I was picking up free mulch at the town recycling center. A landscaper I know, Brian, was also there. He told me he had to buy health insurance for his employees “by October 1st”.
Brian doesn’t do any landscaping for me but he does plow the law office parking lot in the winter, and he has at most, in the summer, maybe ten employees. I think he has “zero” employees in the winter because he personally plows my parking lot, alone. I told him “you don’t have to buy anything for your employees by October 1st, or ever” and we left it at that, but if we’re wondering where the “job killer” belief is coming from, well, we have a partial answer.
NotMax
There are lies, damned lies and
statisticsRepublicans.Villago Delenda Est
Every last bit of the “job killer” meme is a lie, perpetrated by asshole “employers” who lament the end of chattel slavery.
Fuck these people sideways with Hannity’s diseased dick.
Elizabelle
I saw that article. Excellent reporting.
I wish there was a way to get Fox News off the air, because it — and rightwing Republicans — are destroying this country, and there are only so many years in the human lifespan.
Forget the Fairness Doctrine. We need an “Accuracy” Doctrine.
“Fairness”, when one side is lying, is the undoing of our polity.
Elizabelle
Another really good article today: NY Times on California’s electoral reforms, which have displaced the obstructionist GOP and enhanced good, representative government.
We need this nationwide.
California Seen as Example for How to Curb Partisanship
Kay
@Elizabelle:
The defense is, it isn’t “news” right? It’s opinion.
It’s the fuzzy and impossible-to-determine line between news and opinion that is the problem.
Since you read the article, you know that there’s another problem. The game show contestants weren’t in on the joke.
Amir Khalid
Evidently, I don’t follow your American politics closely enough. When I first came across the name Brian Schweitzer, I thought he was the guitar player from the Stray Cats.
Violet
Saw a headline on Google News today that Brian Schweitzer is making noises about making a Presidential bid.
Tone in DC
The party that Makes Shit Up has its own “news” channel. And the “journalists” there also Make Shit Up.
I am so fucking sick of g00pers. The only ones with any honesty are John Dean and Bruce Bartlett.
West of the Rockies
Wait… so, you’re saying that Hannity is a lying horseshit spewer? But he’s got those twitchy, sardonic eyebrows and everything!
Elizabelle
@Kay:
If they were on a game show, one couple might have at least won a Hawaiian vacay or a dining room suite.
Lying losers, all of them. Including the producers.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
I finally got into the exchange, BTW, after repeated “an account could not be created” errors.
The failed attempts all used a user name of 16 characters. 15 characters zipped right on through.
Coincidence?
Violet
From the article:
Does Sean Hannity call himself a journalist? Certainly he has no credibility as a journalist, but I thought all the wingnut talkers called themselves “entertainers” if they were ever called on any inaccuracies.
Hungry Joe
There’s no way this kind of disinformation can remain aloft till Nov. ’14. It’s one thing to say that the debt is increasing (who checks?), Obama is a Muslim (who knows?), and he hid under the Oval Office desk during Benghazi (could be, could be … ). But with the ACA there’ll be too many real-world people getting real-world insurance and saving real-world dollars.
Will people figure out they’ve been lied to, and by whom? You’d think so … but you might be wrong.
Alison
The truly frustrating thing is that probably 99% of the people who watched Hannity’s show will not see this article, and will just keep thinking these assholes were all telling the truth…
I keep hearing this though, that some people are seeing much higher premiums. For example, this letter to the editor in the NYT the other day:
So….is she also just totally lying? Or are there some cases where a person’s premiums might go up? If so, I’d just like to know the whys and wherefores behind it, which I’m sure are totally logical (no really, I’m not being sarcastic) so that I can try to explain it when it inevitable comes up on Facebook or whatever…
Anyone have thoughts?
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Pay them, at least! Everyone else in on the grift is getting paid! It’s not fair.
comrade scott's agenda of rage
Methinks the Salon guy got to meet part of the 27%. Facts don’t matter. Saving money doesn’t matter. Since this president (or any Dem president for that matter) made this happen, it must be WRONG.
Nothing entertaining about this, it simply reinforces the fact that the Crazification Folks will never change.
PsiFighter37
@Violet: From too small a state to matter, and too pro-gun and pro-coal to win in the primaries.
He’s a nice guy who would make a good Cabinet secretary, but I don’t see him as president. I still wish he had run for the US Senate, but at least we have a credible candidate (the current LG) who should be able to keep it quite competitive. Looking at the history of Montana’s Senate seats, I’m struck at how well Democrats have done at the federal level here. Baucas’ seat hasn’t been occupied by a Republican for an entire freakin’ century!
Citizen_X
Well, there you go: Obama’s making life difficult for lying sacks of shit.
Which, come to think of it, may be why so much of America’s business class hates him.
Hill Dweller
@Violet:
If Schweitzer backed out of a senate run because there was enough oppo research to sink his campaign, I don’t see how he can run for President.
Villago Delenda Est
@West of the Rockies:
That are calling for me to rearrange them with a Louisville Slugger.
Bill E Pilgrim
I had these great images of either a law office situated in a field of crops, or a guy tearing up pavement with a tractor, before I realized what “plow” meant. For those of us from places without snow — well possibly it’s just me, I’m pretty jet lagged and full of Sudafed for my cold.
I still like the initial image though.
“Good asphalt crop this year”.
“Yep.”
PsiFighter37
The problem is that the GOP, Koch Brothers, etc. are actively spreading disinformation about the law. Can you imagine if we lived in sane times, and the Republicans actually bothered to cooperate, even if they didn’t like the law?
Also, too, fuck John Roberts for giving states the opt-out on Medicaid. Just another way to let red-state governors fuck over the poor in their states.
Alan
I was recently informed by my brother, who’s a FNC watcher–Limbaugh, Levin, Beck listener that it was all over the media how a headliner at Daily Kos posted how he was personally screwed by Obamacare. Did anyone hear about that? I’m too lazy to try to debunk all the bullshit that comes from the RW media.
Jay C
@Elizabelle:
I read that NYT piece this afternoon, and to me, the takeaway was blindingly obvious: how to “curb partisanship” and get things done in your state? Simple: reduce Republicans to an irrelevancy…. Things get done!!
Patrick
Also from the article:
So let me get this straight. One of her children has a pre-existing condition and is currently not covered because of that. The ACA (or Obamacare as she mockingly calls it) would cover her child’s pre-existing condition. What am I missing? Is she and her husband yet another example of middle-class people who are so eager to vote against their own economic self-interest?
Yatsuno
FYWP.
@PsiFighter37: Rehberg is a bit of an abberation in that he sticks rather closely to the teatard line. Montana has three things that keep it surprising liberal: a large environmental streak, a huge long-standing and still strong union presence, and a very long history of corporations interfering in state politics. Plus two of the major urban centres also have universities. 2014 won’t be easy but having a Dem with a record of success is a good thing to have if we can’t have Schweitzer’s star power here.
Kay
@Alison:
The only thing I can think of is it isn’t “comparable coverage”. It may be comparable coverage for her, but the qualified plans have to include things she may not use. So it covers more, just not the things she prefers to pay for. One of the things people object to is maternity coverage, but I assume that was how they were able to make the thing gender-neutral (women used to pay more for insurance, now they won’t). I’m not one who usually starts down the “I don’t want to pay for what you need” with insurance, because it’s a REAL slippery slope. Once you start lopping off whole groups of people and coverage, it’s a mess. She may need something I don’t want to pay for, but am.
Villago Delenda Est
@comrade scott’s agenda of rage:
This is the part (saving money doesn’t matter) that baffles me. The entire “oh no you’re not going to force me to save money by taking away incandescent lightbulbs or forcing me to use a tire pressure gauge” thing is just a further example of how Cleek’s Law rules their world. Those damn hippies are trying to save them money, and they won’t have anything of it! It’s like the Dark Lord discounting energy conservation (this from a self-proclaimed conservative!) as a possible measure to take in achieving energy independence. No, no, no, it’s drill baby drill, and fuck future generations in the process!
Alison
@Kay: Comparable coverage was what I was thinking of too…
Violet
@Alison: I have seen some discussion that there is a group of people whose premiums will likely go up. Not sure exactly who they are–probably those who aren’t eligible for subsidies. Maybe older folks? I think single people–and this woman is probably a solo applicant if her husband is on Medicare, which also likely means they have no kids under 26–end up paying more than families. Not in total, but per person.
Davis X. Machina
I dunno about that.
How long has it been since a Republican president balanced a budget? But the GOP is still the party of fiscal probity and will continue to be, until every American who remembers Eisenhower is dead.
Alison
@Violet: Right. I also wonder though, if as time goes on and more people sign up and the costs get spread around, perhaps those higher premiums may come down? I mean…the idea of health care premiums going down seems impossible, but who knows what the landscape will be like six months, a year, two years into Obamacare.
aimai
@Kay: I guess I think its a mugs game being drawn into considerations of why person “X” claims that their insurance costs will go up when the whole thing is supposed to be called “affordable.” Insurance is expensive. There are lots of factors involved in why a given individual might feel like what they are paying is “more” than what they think they should have to pay. Its a totally subjective standard and, in the case of insurance, often tied to stuff that is irrelevant, or not yet evident–like the fact that you previously had high deductible trash insurance but now are only being offered the chance to buy comprehensive insurance. Or before you didn’t understand what group you were in or how the charges were figured, and now you think you do.
Her husband is on medicare so what is her beef about getting a government sponsored buy in to a larger insurance pool? That its too much government interference in her insurance? We know for a fact that insurance premiums were going up every year without the ACA–how does she know that the insurance she was paying for wouldn’t have gone up and bumped her off anyway? Yes: its going to be expensive to insure everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions. Thats the price we have to pay as a society for giving health care to people who could get sick.
Kay
@Violet:
The two things that peg to a higher quote group are age and smoking. So pre-existing condition is no longer a factor, gender is no longer a factor, but age and smoking are still factors. I think they had to do age. They’d really be hammering young people if they didn’t make older people pay some measure more.
Where you live is also a factor.
Comrade Mary
@Alan: Found it in one Google.
1) September 30 posting (before the exchanges opened)
2) Headline: “Obamacare will double my monthly premium (according to Kaiser)”
3) He hasn’t updated since he revised the headline after some people pointed this shit out.
But Google did point me at it via American Spectator, so yeah, it’s going around.
TLDR: some guy freaked out based on Kaiser’s messaging. He probably hasn’t even looked at the exchanges yet.
PsiFighter37
@Yatsuno: Can’t imagine Rehberg will make a comeback, now that he’s a lobbyist in D.C. Even if Daines ends up running on the GOP side, I still think it’s a toss-up. And without a big headwind in the Democrats’ face during these midterm elections, I think there’s a better-than-even chance we hold the seat. And if Daines doesn’t run, I don’t think a generic Teabagger is going to win too many hearts.
That said, if people like Tester and Begich can stay in office a long time, hopefully it will give us some insight as to how to make inroads in other Western states with a heavy GOP preference. We used to have that in the Dakotas and Nebraska, but those slipped away from us at some point (I think Heidi Heitkamp got lucky to be running against a douchenozzle like Rick Berg…and she barely won. If it was a generic Republican, I think she would have lost).
Kay
@aimai:
I just think it would be a horrible, mean-spirited policy fight if we got down to brass tacks like that. God, can you imagine?
“I’m NOT paying for your mental illness!” “Well, I’M not paying for your pregnancy!” Just don’t open that can ‘o worms, is my attitude :)
Violet
@Kay: I had an exchange with a man from an organization that was trying to get me to donate money. Somehow we got on the subject of health care. He said, “Why should I pay for someone’s birth control pills?” I shot back, “Why should I pay for your V1agra?” He said, “You don’t. I pay for my own.”
Hilarious, on so many levels. I’m certain the organization provides health insurance, which means that even if I personally am not paying for his boner pills, others are contributing via insurance premiums so that he’s got some kind of prescription coverage and only pays a co-pay. Not to mention he admitted to me he uses boner pills. He’s old enough that he might be in that category, but men don’t usually admit it. He was completely flummoxed.
Maeve
@Amir Khalid:
I thought he was a coach for the Oklahoma Sooners football team
J.Ty
I like Schweitzer, except for the coal and gas ties… then again, I like Hickenlooper too. Maybe you get used to the whole polity being in extraction’s pocket when you grow up in the non-coastal West.
MattR
@Kay: I completely agree with that attitude. But I am not shocked that the party of “I don’t want my taxes going to THOSE people” would see things differently.
Bill in Section 147
Can’t Hannity just interview some people who survived a car wreck because they were not wearing seat belts? Throw in one or two people who lost a loved one to air-bag-deployment. Get the government off my back.
The article didn’t mention specifics about what may actually be problems with ObamaCare but it struck me that the Hannitys have spent so much capital on inventing faux problems that they have to keep banging that particular set of rubber chickens. They would lose ‘credibility’ if they switched to the actual issues.
Baud
There are still people making less than $250K who insists that Obama raised their taxes.
They’re all liars or delusional.
Maeve
@Kay:
Where you live is a factor (silver coverage in Alaska is 7,500 plus, in Oklahoma it is 4,000 plus per year) but cost of living in the subsidies seems to be built in (if you make 34,000 per year as a single 55 year old non-smoker you pay less in Alaska than in Oklahoma – not enough less to cancel the cost of living, but you get a bigger subsidy according to Kaiser). If you are NOT subsidized than in AK you pay much more than OK. Which is understandable, but may not play to the people who have gotten catestrophic or no insurance up til now.
gelfling545
@Kay: My group coverage from work covered maternity. It was part of the package & guys policies read exactly the same way the women’s did. That was the plan & that was what it covered just as it covered services to males that females do not require. There was no option to forgo any part of the plan to pay less. Maybe you didn’t need 1 or another part but group plans are like that. It was the plan.
Mnemosyne
@Alison:
Michigan only just passed the Medicaid expansion bill in September, so what you have here are the nasty aftereffects of Republican foot-dragging. Not that this woman will ever realize that it was her own party that shot her in the foot and then pointed the finger at the other side.
Patrick
@Violet:
This is exactly what I don’t get. We pay taxes in this country and nobody will be 100% happy as to where the money goes. Most of the people that ask “why should I pay for someone’s birth control pills” are Republicans. My response to them is usually “why did I have to pay for your stupid war in Iraq”. It usually quashes the argument.
Kay
@Violet:
It is hilarious. I don’t even want to have this fight, partly because I’m like “oh, please, NO NEED to tell me what prescriptions you take! Just keep that to yourself!”
Can this country handle that fight, on that personal a level? I think not. We’ll kill each other. “If you didn’t DRINK so much, I wouldn’t be paying for your REHAB, now would I?”
Best we skip that “debate” :)
MattR
@Baud: I loved dealing with that when the payroll tax holiday ended.
Tax rate under Bush = X
Under Obama, rate is temporarily cut to X – 2 for one year
That lower rate of X-2 is extended for another year
The rate reverts back to X (as was always planned and is identical to the Bush era rate)
Wingnuts scream about Obama raising taxes
Roger Moore
@Alison:
Sure, but most of those people already believed what Hannity was saying before they saw the segment. As far as I can tell, Fox is great at keeping people in the fold and at riling up the base, but it’s not obvious that it’s doing much to convince people who don’t already believe what they’re saying.
FlipYrWhig
@Bill in Section 147:
Hannity would never do that. That’s John Stossel’s beat.
Churchlady
@Patrick: Tort reform? CA has that – and the RW is screaming it’s killing doctors. Nope. Not at all.
Here is one quick statement. ACA is not creating hikes in premiums in the private market. Premium hikes in the private market created ACA.
MomSense
Canada has managed to keep out all Murdoch media and I swear this is why they have nice things.
Alan
@Comrade Mary: Thanks Mary. I’m surprised Kaiser wants to scare customers away with quotes like that. Obamacare is a win/win for for-profit companies using the government to force people to buy their policies. Why poison the well?
Kay
@gelfling545:
It was weird what was covered. I worked for the postal service, so I was on the federal exchange, which was really a state exchange. We were buying Ohio insurance because insurance is traditionally the realm of the states, blah, blah.
Anyway, I once participated as a donor in a trial for a bone marrow transplant technique for a relative that (I learned from a Balloon Juice commenter!) is now much less horrible than it was when I was the donor. So a SUCCESSFUL medical trial.
The one and only reason it was covered under insurance was because an Ohio First Lady had “organ transplants” as a pet cause, so she got what I did covered (not just for me, of course).
So crazily arbitrary! What if her charity had been something else?
MattR
@Alan: IIRC, that dKos diarist had craptastic insurance that has been made illegal under Obamacare. So it is not the least bit surprising that Kaiser would want to focus the blame on Obamacare, rather than admitting that the old policy was substandard.
@Kay: It always struck me as funny that dialysis is covered by Medicare at any age. I am glad it is. I might need it. But it still seemed weird that it was singled out like that.
Mnemosyne
@Maeve:
There also seems to be an issue where unmarried couples with over a $100K household income get kinda screwed, especially if they have kids, because the entire household’s income is taken into account even if only one person is buying insurance on the exchanges. I think that Ms. D Ranged in AZ who posts here ran into that little quirk.
Mnemosyne
@MattR:
The law requiring it was passed back in the 1970s because — surprise, surprise — people who needed long-term dialysis were getting dropped by their insurance companies.
? Martin
I refer to this as the Fox News Care Act. It’s a whole other set of policies that consumers and business owners need to meet, which include reducing everyone to 29 hours per week, and registering with the local death panel.
I have a coworker who was outraged by the healthcare.gov site because he was trying to create an account to record his health insurance. I asked him why he was doing that – he has full coverage, he doesn’t need to do anything with the exchanges. He believed (from watching Fox News) that he needed to create an account and record his employer health information to avoid being fined. I told him, no, his employer or the insurer he chose from our employer will file the equivalent of a W-2 to document his coverage and it all gets sorted out when he files his 2014 taxes in April 2015.
He did this whole tirade in a senior management meeting. About half the room facepalmed while I tried to keep him from looking even more foolish than he already did. So, if anyone is wondering where some of that website traffic is coming from, now you know.
Pogonip
@Villago Delenda Est: I avoid having to pay $12 for a lightbulb by using 3-way lamps: 3-way bulbs are the same as they ever were. Funny how those self-reliant conservatives can’t get themselves to a hardware store and buy a lamp conversion kit. Instead they are helpless to resist the charge of the hippie light brigade and HAVE NO WAY to avoid buying the new bulbs. It’s impossible. All they can do is whine.
? Martin
@Kay:
Employer insurance isn’t any different. Insurers give companies some standard policies to start from, but if they’re large enough they can customize it to suit them. The old guys in the board room seem to always make sure Vîagra gets on the menu and birth control doesn’t.
Pogonip
@Bill E Pilgrim: “Hardly any pebbles in it.”. “Yep.”
We could also note that Kay is out standing in her field…
Alan
@MattR: Thanks Matt, that’s interesting, and makes a lot of sense.
Kay
@? Martin:
It’s creeping in though, the facts. I deal with a local family law firm a lot. I like all of them, they’re all Republicans, but they’re not nuts. It’s two brothers, an “of counsel” ancient uncle and then a couple of associates. One of them (the smartest one) buys the health insurance for the firm. He hates that job.
He’s really pleased that it will be simpler to deal with and they’ll get a tax break. They’re not assholes. They would like to provide better insurance. They just don’t want it to be so hard.
MattR
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, but it still seems a bit weird for it to be singled out like that while people with other conditions that requrie long term treatment are left out in the cold. I guess many of those conditions/treatments are relatively new and did not apply to large numbers of people in the early 70’s when kidney disease got rolled into Medicare. It just seems like if that is the standard, then things like HIV treatment or autism care should be included as well.
Roger Moore
@J.Ty:
It isn’t really the whole population, especially not in Colorado where most of the population is urban and not in the extraction industry. Their employment does tend to be very concentrated where they’re hiring, but they also have a lot of history that makes them more powerful than their direct size accounts for. Some of that is a historical fear of their power- they used to be really powerful and people are still afraid of them- and some of it is that they’re used to doing business by throwing their weight around in a way that other businesses aren’t.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
I hadn’t realized that you were a donor. Were you testing something about donation by apheresis?
ETA: I think I’m the person you’re thinking of who discussed donations.
Kay
I don’t know anything about Brian Schweitzer, but I generally think a western governor in a dem primary is a good idea at this point.
Plus, I’m bored with our current political fights and I like contested primaries :)
Ksmiami
@Alison: first of all bloomfield township is between bloomfield hills and Birmingham where the elite of michigan live so I’m really skeptical that she is in need … And most likely a republican
Felonius Monk
@Kay: We had a self-employed carpenter at the house earlier in the week doing some repair work. The tv news was on and they were doing a story about Obamacare. This fellow mentioned that his health insurance was going to triple in price under the ACA.
He is insured under HealthyNY right now and pays around $380/month. He has been notified that he will have to find insurance on the NY exchange for next year. He says to get a policy with benefits comparable to what he has now it will cost him over $1200/month. Because of his income he says he is not eligible for the subsidy.
I didn’t dig for more details because it really is none of my business. But if there is truth to what he says, it does not bode well for the success of the ACA. I found this whole story rather surprising because NY had announced that the rates on the state exchange were going to be 45-50% lower.
Comments anyone?
Kay
@Roger Moore:
I just had to google the term, but yes, it was bone marrow stem cells. I stayed sort of deliberately ignorant thru the whole thing, because I was “in” and it’s not like I was going to change my mind based on carefully studying the technique, none of which I really understood. The recipient recovered, which was miraculous and wonderful, but then I didn’t pay any attention to the whole issue until I saw a legal opinion on it and wrote about it here. A physician in the comments told me it’s much easier and faster now and commonly used, so I was glad to hear that medical science has been busily advancing in my absence.
ben ghazzari (formerly marv)
gonna have to check out again – this time for real and for evah. Obama’s journey is getting more intense than the Odyssey, and I’m just a lonely sailor plus too many IPA’s passed out up on the roof. I mean, to deal with this default business and now his presidency is going to be ruined by a tech problem! I mean, why can’t, for example, Bill the motherfucking Gates of the internet for 40 billion dollars step up and say: Chill the fuck out. I got this!
My conclusion: Eat the rich!
NotMax
@Kay
He gave quite a good speech at the Dem convention.
And also held one of the most photogenic veto ceremonies ever.
LeftCoastTom
@? Martin:
Orange County is now a Distributed Denial of Service attack? Sounds right…
Randy P
@Alison:
I would have to pay more on the independent market than I’m paying now for MY EMPLOYER-SUBSIDIZED PLAN.
It’s one hell of a lot cheaper than COBRA. But not cheaper than the employee plan.
I suspect that’s where most of those are coming from.
Randy P
@Felonius Monk: Lots of calculators out there, like this one.
laborcenter.berkeley.edu/healthpolicy/calculator/
Put in your particulars and see what you get. I just put in numbers for an individual in NY State on one of those calculators and came up with $4K/yr for a silver plan.
$380/month sounds damned cheap. I’m paying $400+ per month for my employer-subsidized insurance.
pseudonymous in nc
Ah, well, yes. Leicester is ten miles outside of Asheville, and people who live there basically view the city as Sodom, N.C. It would be impolite to say that it’s a cluster of trailer parks and wingnuts, but it wouldn’t be entirely inaccurate.
There is a political problem whereby people with craptastic insurance who’ve never had to claim on it feel like they’re being screwed. And the WH is probably a bit wary of hauling out people who got bankrupted or denied care in spite of their craptastic insurance, given that they need the insurance companies on board here.
There is also a political problem whereby people who get sick when insured under the exchange policies largely don’t get bankrupted (at least, that’s the hope, though the Bronze/catastrophic plans are still problematic here) and “the state of not being financially ruined” is not necessarily a vote-winner, while paying for a plan and being lucky enough not to get sick may be a vote-loser.
That’s the nature of insurance. Actually, it’s the nature of health in the US: there are always going to be more people who don’t get million-dollar-bill sick than those who do.
However, there will be people who quit their crappy jobs and start businesses with the guarantee of decent insurance, and there will be people who have coverage for pre-existing conditions for the first time, and there will be people who get early diagnoses and full cures because they no longer have to treat the ER as their primary care facility.
pseudonymous in nc
@PsiFighter37: One commenter at TPM suggested that Schweitzer is basically running for Veep. That’s a credible suggestion.
Kay
@NotMax:
I think I saw one of his speeches, and it was good. He has a giant, square head, right? I’d just like to see a western governor run. I was pushing Bill Richardson here early in ’08, just for fun. I knew he didn’t have a chance in hell, but I like primaries. Then I watched an event in Iowa on C-Span where Richardson was shaking hands and moving in a crowd and I got an unmistakable and strong “pays too much attention to 22 year old women” vibe. Is he a little lecherous, Richardson? That was my sense. I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.
MattR
@Felonius Monk: I actually went through the process on the NY state website using my mother’s address (Rockland County). I am 38 and dont smoke and if I remember correctly the gold plans were in the 400-475 a month range. If he is older, it will cost him more. But 1200 a month sounds a bit high. Ironically, I think that Obamacare is going to be a “Green Eggs and Ham” type thing. People will have to try it to realize that they actually like it, then they will spread the word to others who will give it a try. Not every person will have a pleasant experience, but as long as the vast majority come away happy, the product will survive.
@Randy P: That 475 at the top range of the gold plans in NY is what my employer and I currently pay together for our group insurance. And when I use the federal estimator for my county in Jersey those gold plans run 375-425. Still more than the 175 that is my portion of my current plan, but less than its overall cost.
Kay
@Felonius Monk:
That one is hard to believe, because it was my understanding that NY had the worst of both worlds,; comprehensive insurance but no mandate, so they had older sicker people on the exchange with a plan with a lot of benefits and no young people to broaden the pool.
That’s why they showed such huge savings when the prices on the exchange came out, because they started with such high prices. I don’t know his situation, though.
The mandate drops out if the premium is more than 9% of income, so he could be in a situation where he isn’t subject to the mandate. Presumably then he could buy cheaper insurance.
Felonius Monk
@Kay: I did some checking myself and his story just doesn’t hang together. My initial concern was that maybe the NY exchange was providing bad info, but that appears very unlikely. This fellow is not any kind of a wingnut, so I took the story at face value, but it does seem that he has bad info — time will tell.
Thanks to all that commented.
Honus
@Felonius Monk: here’s my comment: bullshit. And I was a self-insured carpenter for 20 years.
workworkwork
@Alison:
As far as I can tell, people whose premiums are going up most likely had an individual policy that didn’t meet the minimum coverage requirements of the ACA — in other words, their insurance company was screwing them and now that they can’t any more, they’re charging extra.
Just a thought.
Bubba Dave
Bear in mind that not all filthy grifters are Repugnant politicians. I’m the mail admin at my office (among my many hats) and sort through the spam quarantine looking for legit messages. There are a lot of spammers right now trying to convince people that they are in violation of the law and need to buy insurance RIGHT FREAKING NOW. I’m not sure what the scam is– identity theft, collect the premiums and then go out of business, all of the above– but anybody without a good spam filter and a good BS detector could easily end up believing that they’ve been victimized by the eeeeeeevil Obamacare.
pseudonymous in nc
@workworkwork:
That’s true, but it’s still a political problem. If you’ve been paying for tiger repellent and haven’t been eaten by a tiger, then you’re likely to believe that it’s a good deal.
The only way to challenge this is to make clear just how many people bought tiger repellent and still got eaten by tigers.