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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

The words do not have to be perfect.

The world has changed, and neither one recognizes it.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

You know he’s going to shit a cat.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

When I was faster i was always behind.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

We will not go back.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

All hail the time of the bunny!

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Long Read: “The Murder in Exam Room 15”

Long Read: “The Murder in Exam Room 15”

by Anne Laurie|  July 18, 20155:33 pm| 74 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Gun nuts, World's Best Healthcare (If You Can Afford It)

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At the intersection of two of America’s biggest problems… Chris Sweeney, in Boston Magazine:

Stephen Pasceri was insistent. The 55-year-old accountant, clad in khakis and a snug sweater that hugged his belly, stood at the reception desk in the gleaming lobby of the Shapiro Cardiovascular Center at Brigham and Women’s Hospital on January 20, quietly demanding to see Dr. ­Michael Davidson. He conceded to the secretary that he didn’t have an appointment, but he had risen early in the sharp winter morning to make the hourlong drive from Millbury, and he wasn’t leaving until he met with the heart surgeon.

Possessed with superb technical skills, Davidson was a rising star, but it was his bedside manner that set him apart. Sometimes doctors don’t like to discuss their failures, but Davidson was known for spending hours talking to patients and their families regardless of whether a surgery ended flawlessly or something went wrong. Pasceri’s mother, ­Marguerite, had been ­Davidson’s ­patient in 2014 and had died recently of heart and lung complications at another hospital. So it wasn’t out of the ordinary when ­Davidson welcomed Pasceri into exam room 15, knowing full well that the domino effect of this unscheduled visit could delay a dozen other appointments and encroach on the precious ­evening hours that belonged to ­Davidson’s three young children and his wife, who was seven months’ pregnant with their fourth child, a girl.

As Davidson closed the door behind them, Pasceri peppered him with questions about a drug called amiodarone, which he was sure had killed his mother. This wasn’t foreign territory for Davidson—he understood the confusion that accompanies losing a loved one, and he wanted to help Pasceri find clarity and peace. Davidson explained that it was a commonly prescribed medication for ­patients suffering from an irregular heartbeat, and that if they walked upstairs to the cardiac unit, Pasceri would see that one-third of recovering patients were taking it. But Pasceri was persistent: The grieving son’s calm demeanor held steady as he challenged the doctor’s judgment in prescribing the medication. After 15 minutes and little progress, Davidson asked his physician’s assistant to leave the room and check on patients whose appointments were now running late.

For 20 more minutes, the two men continued to talk. No one outside the exam room heard a sound, until all at once two blasts from a .40-caliber pistol tore through the morning calm. Davidson burst from the room, clutching his left hip and back, yelling, “He’s shooting, he’s shooting!” He made it to the end of the hallway before collapsing on the carpet in front of a secure door. After more than eight hours of emergency surgery, Davidson would not survive. The moment shots rang out, a hospital worker in his cubicle pushed a panic button rigged to his desk and within seconds, security guards and Boston police officers on hospital detail swarmed the building. Thanks to a controversial change in procedure at the Brigham months earlier, instead of sounding a vague “Code Grey” warning, a woman’s voice came over the public address system: “A life-threatening situation now exists at Watkins Clinic B—Shapiro 2. All persons should immediately move away from that location if it is safe to do so. If it is not safe to move away, shelter in place immediately.”

Grief is often depicted as a phase of gentle contemplation from which one emerges wiser and comforted. But for a few, grief can be a wellspring of destructive ambition. Still standing in the exam room, Pasceri pushed the barrel of the gun against the roof of his mouth and pulled the trigger. In a final note to his family found on a USB drive after his death, Pasceri wrote that a lawsuit would not have sufficed. To escape the demons of his mother’s death and ease his pain, he needed to murder Davidson…

We can’t have rational discussions about end-of-life decisions, because death panels are such a useful bugaboo. And we can’t restrict gun ownership for disturbed individuals with a history of violence. But, hey, we’re liable to get lots more field experience testing the best active-shooter notification systems for institutions open to the general public!

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Reader Interactions

74Comments

  1. 1.

    craigie

    July 18, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    Maybe the NRA should be required to provide grief counseling to the victims of gun violence.

  2. 2.

    Felonius Monk

    July 18, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    @craigie: They already do this: If you don’t want grief, pack heat. That’s about as much grief counseling that the NRA is willing to do.

  3. 3.

    srv

    July 18, 2015 at 5:43 pm

    ah, I’m used to all of it being copied and pasted.

  4. 4.

    Mack

    July 18, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    That is a heartbreaking story. Damn.

  5. 5.

    donnah

    July 18, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    It’s heartbreaking. A no-win situation in which, yet again, a gun played the key role. I’m sick of these stories and so sad for the doctor’s family and patients.

  6. 6.

    gogol's wife

    July 18, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    So sad.

  7. 7.

    srv

    July 18, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    Unlike his unassuming dad, Pasceri was controlling and manipulative, prone to bursts of outrage and intimidation. He’d been arrested as a teenager for stealing guns, served in the Army, and eventually settled in the suburbs of Worcester with his wife and four children. His temper carried into adulthood, and he’d alienated several family members over seemingly minor differences. At the time of their father’s death, Joly hadn’t had a relationship with her brother in approximately 20 years; she’d cut ties with Pasceri in the early 1990s after he threatened to sue her and her husband over a dispute involving some unfinished handiwork.

    Well, that’s enough psychological review evidence for me, there should be a law.

  8. 8.

    cmorenc

    July 18, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    The NRA response, if this became a high-profile case, would be that doctors should pack heat in exam rooms, just like movie-goers should in theaters, just like teachers should in schools. All because people who have legitimate reasons to own guns would have their absolute 2A rights infringed if gun laws were tightened to inhibit madmen who would kill innocent people with guns and the government would have a database with which to begin confiscating everyone’s guns with the help of black helicopters…

  9. 9.

    satby

    July 18, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    I think it’s enraging. We’re potential sitting ducks because of an organized effort to gin up the crazy for political gain and gin up gun sales for profit. That’s not sad, that positively enrages me. But until most of the country decides to punish the legislators who stand in the way of gun control we’re just stuck.

  10. 10.

    divF

    July 18, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    @srv:

    He’d been arrested as a teenager for stealing guns,

    Actually, that is enough for me. Stealing guns is enough to rate a lifetime ban from possessing firearms.

  11. 11.

    srv

    July 18, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    @divF: Well, the good State of Massachusetts and the US Army disagreed with you:

    According to Kathy Curran of WCVB, Stephen Pasceri had a license to carry a gun. She also reports that he’s a resident of Millbury, Massachusetts. Police have said that Pasceri’s family had no idea of his intentions. Ryan Schulteis of WHDH reports that Pasceri’s friends and family “are in shock and say he was the nicest guy.”

    Monster, but nice guy.

  12. 12.

    gogol's wife

    July 18, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    @srv:

    Are you trying to argue that someone who kills a doctor because his mother died is not mentally unstable?

  13. 13.

    raven

    July 18, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    I was in a country store coming back from Atlanta today and some douchebag had a “Southern Armored Cavalry” t-shirt on and was strapped with a 9.

  14. 14.

    srv

    July 18, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    @gogol’s wife: No, I’m trying to argue there’s enough evidence here take away someone’s Constitutional Right. Particularly the “nicest guy” part.

    I’m the glib in glibobot.

  15. 15.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    @srv:

    I’m the glib in glibobot.

    More like the “id” in “idiot.”

  16. 16.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    July 18, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    @raven: I take it you didn’t make a comment about his small male bits.

  17. 17.

    divF

    July 18, 2015 at 6:34 pm

    @srv:
    The second amendment is not a suicide pact. It does not empower you to own RPGs; once you accept that, it is a question where the line is drawn.

    Plus there is that whole “well-regulated militia” thing.

  18. 18.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    July 18, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    @divF:

    Plus there is that whole “well-regulated militia” thing.

    The Supremes said that the Founders really didn’t mean that part.

  19. 19.

    Hal

    July 18, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    At least this man is on alert.

    “As the country realized the Marines that were killed were unarmed at the recruiting center, people have started showing up to provide security.

    At 8 a.m. Friday morning, one man decided to spend his day off standing guard outside of a military recruitment center in Winchester, Virginia.

    He is not worried about another attack like Chattanooga here. But he is making a statement.

    “People need to call their congressman, they need to call their senators and they need to change these laws that are on the books so these guys can protect themselves so a regular old citizen doesn’t have to go out and do it,” he told us.

    The man asked to remain unidentified, but he said when he heard about the four Marines killed by a terrorist in Tennessee, he thought, “Here we go again.”

    “It’s fundamental Muslim extremism,” he said. “They declared war on us and we seem to not put it in perspective and realizing that the war is here.”

    The military has been grateful for the symbolic support.

    “I went into each office, the ones that were open, and I was received with handshakes and thank yous,” he said. “They constantly came by, and not only them, but their wives came by in tears thanking me for just being out here. They baked cookies for me and brought lunch by.”

    You don’t need a permit to openly carry guns in Virginia.

    “The police already came by and checked me out, cleared my guns, doing their duty,” said the man. “It was all good.”

    myfoxdc.com/story/29573755/man-armed-guard-recruiting-office

  20. 20.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 6:39 pm

    @divF:

    It does not empower you to own RPGs;

    What part of “shall not be infringed” do you not understand? And that “well-regulated” crap is just another un-American phrase which doesn’t belong there – after all, it’s all them Lie-beral regulations what’s killing business in this country.

    The unfortunate part is that the above comments are probably too milquetoasty for Wayne LaPierre and his idolaters.

  21. 21.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 6:41 pm

    @raven:

    It was probably tempting to ask him why he wasn’t in Tejas, monitoring Jade Helm.

  22. 22.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    July 18, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    @SFAW: I liked my comment better, but I said a bad word and it is in detention.

  23. 23.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    : I liked my comment better

    Egotist.

    Was the “Supremes” comment the one in detention? Or is there another one?

  24. 24.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    July 18, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    @SFAW: It was another one, suggesting that it was compensating for a, eh, shortcoming.

  25. 25.

    srv

    July 18, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    This is what “winning” looks like:

    The idea that guns provide protection appears to be quickly gaining currency among American blacks. In December, 54 percent of blacks polled by Pew said they believed guns were more likely to protect people than to put their safety at risk. That figure was up from 29 percent two years earlier. For whites, 62 percent said guns protect people, up from 54 percent in 2012.

  26. 26.

    debbie

    July 18, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    @gogol’s wife:

    I don’t think mental instability pulled the trigger. I think it was rage. Rage is what’s at the heart of all these shootings.

  27. 27.

    opiejeanne

    July 18, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    A once -favorite cousin married a jerk ex-cop blowhard security guard. He opined the last time we saw them that the shooter in the theater in Colorado would have been stopped right away if he’d pulledthat gun in Kansas City, MO because everyone there is packing, and “we know how to deal with stuff like that there.

    I have avoided getting together with them since then, when they are in Socal at the same time as we are. She is not the same person at all; I worry that it’s a type of Stockholm syndrome.

    And in other news, I saw a booth at the Kirkland WA street fair thingie toda that was selling jewelry made from used ammo, mostly shotgun shells. A sign inside the booth said something about America strong.

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    @efgoldman:

    What’s Diana Ross got to do with any of this?

    I was going to try to work “Soldier Boy” or “Heat Wave” into my response, but realized it was a lot of effort for little gain.

    Oh, wait …

  29. 29.

    raven

    July 18, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    @SFAW: I figured it was best to leave it alone.

  30. 30.

    Roger Moore

    July 18, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    @debbie:
    I think these shootings take a confluence of factors to come about. They require access to a weapon, willingness to use it, and some kind of target. Each of us will tend to focus on the factor we care most about, but you need all of them, and any large scale solution to the problem will need to take on more than one to be really successful.

  31. 31.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    It was another one, suggesting that it was compensating for a, eh, shortcoming.

    Atrios (I think) seems to be able to call one an External Death P3ni$ without problem. But then again, it’s his blog, so FYWP doesn’t really apply, does it.

  32. 32.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 7:04 pm

    @raven:

    Understood, I don’t blame you. As I said, “tempting.” But ultimately, foolhardy.

  33. 33.

    RSA

    July 18, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    @SFAW:

    What part of “shall not be infringed” do you not understand?

    I’ve had brief arguments with gun nuts, asking why pipe bombs and machine guns and a suitcase nukes and biological weapons aren’t covered under the Second Amendment’s “right to bear arms”. Nothing comes back except some mealy-mouthed questions about why I would need such weapons. (Hello? It’s your side that thinks you might some day be fighting against the U.S. Army, not me, and a shotgun isn’t going to help very much.) I’ve gotten the strong impression that for average gun people, there’s no real philosophical or principled grounding for their views. It’s closer to “I like my guns, and it’s written down that I can have ’em. Case closed.”

  34. 34.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    July 18, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    @efgoldman: I used the word that specified the part that was short.

  35. 35.

    debbie

    July 18, 2015 at 7:13 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Yes, it’s the easy access that has increased the number of incidents, but every one of us is capable of rage. Pinning these shootings on the mentally ill or unstable allows people to blame an Other, when in fact, it could be anyone with a gun.

  36. 36.

    TerryC

    July 18, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    @RSA: Personally, I would like to carry a set of throwing knives in a neck holster :)

  37. 37.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 18, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    We can’t restrict gun ownership because to do so would infringe on the sacred profits of the merchants of death, who are the NRA’s true masters.

  38. 38.

    Mack

    July 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    The, er, shortcomings reference is one I wish were even more mainstream. I’d LOVE to see some PSA’s with beautiful women mocking open carry types for being under-endowed. It ALWAYS enrages my gun nut acquaintances, so it’s a victory for me whether I convert people or not.

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 18, 2015 at 7:22 pm

    @srv: Firearms are not defensive weapons, in the tactical sense of “defense”. One could argue that throwing lead at someone to prevent them from accurately throwing lead at you is a “defense” but it’s stretching things considerably. At best, it’s counter-offensive.

    Someone needs to invent a personal shield that will deflect bullets.

  40. 40.

    Pogonip

    July 18, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    @SFAW: And the Supremes did not chart with either of those.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    July 18, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    @debbie:

    Pinning these shootings on the mentally ill or unstable allows people to blame an Other, when in fact, it could be anyone with a gun.

    It’s worse than that in two ways:

    1) The people trying to pin it on mental illness are unwilling to actually do anything about it. They’re the same people who are fighting to keep poor people from getting any health coverage and to allow insurance companies to continue ignoring mental health.

    2) It treats mental illness as a form of otherness that it really isn’t. Mental illness is an illness, and it could strike any one of us.

  42. 42.

    RSA

    July 18, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    @efgoldman:

    It would be much easier for you to go in your backyard and keep running head first into a nice, big tree.

    I believe you’re right: easier and more likely to generate insight.

  43. 43.

    Pogonip

    July 18, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    I think if you continue to dream of disarming the citizenry you are dooming yourself to lifelong frustration. At this point it would take a house-to-house search and that ain’t happening, partly because it’s too expensive and partly because the tattered threads of national unity would finally dissolve. You would do better devoting your energies to working for a peaceful divorce between Red and Blue America.

    I myself view the small but finite chance of being killed by a nut with a gun as one of the normal risks of life in the U.S. People in rural India probably feel the same way about the possibility of being killed by a leopard.

  44. 44.

    A guy

    July 18, 2015 at 7:39 pm

    And military installations are gun free zones. Who’d a thunk it

  45. 45.

    Jack the Second

    July 18, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    Asymmetry is depressing.

    The sad fact is that if someone wants you dead, you are probably dead. We’re only all still alive because no one cares enough to kill us.

  46. 46.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    @Pogonip:

    And the Supremes did not chart with either of those.

    That was kinda the point.

    As I said, a lot of effort for little gain. Well, we can’t all be as funny as Carrot Top.

  47. 47.

    john fremont

    July 18, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    @opiejeanne: I live in Aurora Colorado and open carry and concealed carry is allowed here. Denver and Boulder require permits for open carry.

  48. 48.

    Pogonip

    July 18, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    @SFAW: Oh, OK, I missed the point. Sorry!

  49. 49.

    SFAW

    July 18, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    @Pogonip:

    No, no – sometimes I’m too … something .. what – Ironic? Arch? Obscure? Stupid? I don’t know — for my own good.

  50. 50.

    Pogonip

    July 18, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    I differ with the idea that everyday weapons are useless against U.S. gummint forces. They were run out of Iraq and Afghanistan by people armed with little more than determination and IEDs.

  51. 51.

    replicnt6

    July 18, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I recently came across something that convinced me that, yes, it _really_ is about their sexual insecurities: I walked by the magazine rack in my local Kroger (MI), and counted some 29 different glossy gun magazines (probably each with its own centerfold). I don’t recall seeing that many pr0n mags in one place back when pr0n came on paper. These guys must _really_ like looking at pictures of pretty guns.

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    July 18, 2015 at 8:44 pm

    @Pogonip:
    One of the things that made IEDs work is that you don’t generally see them nor does anyone have to be in the area to explode them. They don’t have get relatively close and they can injure/kill a number of people with one incident. Better armor and tactics removed some of the threat. A hand gun in a civilian scene can cause a lot of damage because there is no real way to stop it other than killing first, which sort of eliminates the idea of a civilized society or removing the guns in the first place. It is very telling that the NRA doesn’t allow guns at it’s convention. Maybe that would work in everyday life.

  53. 53.

    Steve from Antioch

    July 18, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    And we can’t restrict gun ownership for disturbed individuals with a history of violence.

    Perhaps we should pass a law like the one that barred Dylan Roof from getting a handgun.

    That’s the solution, right? Some more laws?

  54. 54.

    Steve from Antioch

    July 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm

    @Pogonip:

    Well stated.

  55. 55.

    Big Picture Pathologist

    July 18, 2015 at 9:51 pm

    @Pogonip:

    There’s different objectivessels and approaches for suppressing a domestic insurrection versus our wars abroad (“hearts and minds” and all that).

    Considering that most people would not support a red state secession, our military would be able to resolve it pretty quickly, IMHO.

    Plus, it would take just one bunker buster demonstration on some unoccupied landmark to get these warrior wannabes to surrender unconditionally.

  56. 56.

    Big Picture Pathologist

    July 18, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Gah! Objectivessels = objectives

  57. 57.

    RSA

    July 18, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    @Pogonip:

    I differ with the idea that everyday weapons are useless against U.S. gummint forces. They were run out of Iraq and Afghanistan by people armed with little more than determination and IEDs.

    I agree that everyday weapons can be effective, but I’d guess that building IEDs here in the U.S. would get you thrown in jail pretty quickly and that a Second Amendment defense would not be very effective. (On the other hand, I don’t know any more than what you can “learn” reading crime and political thrillers.)

  58. 58.

    RSA

    July 18, 2015 at 9:55 pm

    @Big Picture Pathologist:

    Gah! Objectivessels = objectives

    On the contrary, “objectivessels” is awesome, whatever it means.

  59. 59.

    Big Picture Pathologist

    July 18, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    @Pogonip:

    No, we focus on the gun vendors. Those that still want to get their hands on these weapons will just have to work harder at it.

  60. 60.

    Incitatus for Senate

    July 18, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    @Pogonip: The idea that we would need a house to house search to get rid of guns has always been ridiculous. The vast majority of gun owners own them because it is legal. If the laws could be changed they will give up the guns. Because very few people would be willing to risk five years in a federal prison just so they can have their toy.

  61. 61.

    Procopius

    July 19, 2015 at 1:41 am

    So, did Stephen Pasceri have a history of violence? Was it apparent to the casual observer that he was “a disturbed individual?” Apparently not, so why is that recommendation included here. As far as I can see this story just carries the moral, “Shit happens.” I agree we need to find some way to restrict gun ownership, but “keeping guns away from disturbed individuals with a history of violence” is only part of what needs to be done, and suffers from the problem of recognizing “disturbed individuals.” It seems to me if you could recognize “disturbed individuals” you could recognize specifically individuals who intend to shoot other people.

  62. 62.

    Procopius

    July 19, 2015 at 1:45 am

    @srv: Ah, wish I’d seen this comment before I made my own comment assuming he did not have a history of violence. Still, what can you do to prevent people like this from getting their hands on guns, given that a majority of Supreme Court justices apparently enjoy shooting friends in the face.

  63. 63.

    carolus

    July 19, 2015 at 9:14 am

    @Pogonip:

    I really wish folks wouldn’t mythologize about Iraq and Afghanistan without doing some basic research. In Saddam’s heyday, Iraq had a pretty large and well-equipped military. After 2003, many of these weapons fell into the hands of insurgents. So, it’s really foolish to maintain the opposition were just a bunch of scrappy guys armed with paper clips and matches. They had a wide assortment of combat infantry weapons, rockets , mortars, explosives.

    Afghanistan–same thing. Remember, they’ve been fighting wars almost continually since the 1970s.

  64. 64.

    The Other Chuck

    July 19, 2015 at 9:38 am

    @Roger Moore: It’s better that the gun humpers don’t actively care about mental illness, because the ones that do pay attention to it have ideas like a national registry of the mentally ill. That’s right, ever call a suicide hotline? You’re on the list. Take antidepressants? List. ADHD? List, probably, depends on which mental states are stigmatized this year I guess.

    So basically these motherfuckers who can’t bear to have their precious GUNS registered have no problem treating everybody with a mental illness as dangerous subhumans who must be tracked, monitored, and regulated like they were sex offenders.

    Fuck that shit. And fuck them with a .50 cal.

  65. 65.

    The Other Chuck

    July 19, 2015 at 9:41 am

    @Big Picture Pathologist: Dropping bunker busters on our own soil just might backfire a smidge. Those are strictly for killing brown people.

  66. 66.

    The Other Chuck

    July 19, 2015 at 9:43 am

    @Steve from Antioch: More laws that the NRA doesn’t actively interfere with implementing, sure. Bury the gun humpers in laws, I say.

  67. 67.

    boatboy_srq

    July 19, 2015 at 9:56 am

    @Felonius Monk: That alone shows that they’re ten year olds (which implies that they shouldn’t be allowed near firearms in the first place).

  68. 68.

    Chris

    July 19, 2015 at 11:03 am

    @Hal:

    At 8 a.m. Friday morning, one man decided to spend his day off standing guard outside of a military recruitment center in Winchester, Virginia.

    I suspect the last thing the security people at military bases want is some jackass standing right outside their places with loaded firearms.

  69. 69.

    Chris

    July 19, 2015 at 11:15 am

    @Pogonip:

    I differ with the idea that everyday weapons are useless against U.S. gummint forces. They were run out of Iraq and Afghanistan by people armed with little more than determination and IEDs.

    Like I said a few days ago; I actually totally do believe that militia types could become a major problem for the U.S. military in the event of a dystopian future where the country goes full civil war.

    I just also think that virtually none of the militia types currently fantasizing about heroically fighting off the government understand what that would entail, either in terms of fighting the government or in terms of what effect the war would have on the entire world they take for granted. Insurgency is a Darwinian world; 90% of the current militia members would have to die in the first few weeks for the smart people, the ones who can actually lead dangerous insurgencies (or have been lucky enough to survive long enough to learn how), to rise to the top. Either that or drop their guns and go home, only to find that there’s no home to go back to, at least not as they remember it. Even if you assume that the U.S. military would play nice enough on its own soil not to carpet-bomb civilian areas or tell their soldiers “anything that moves is the enemy,” the simple disruption to all the things we take for granted in civilization (food, running water, electricity, medicine) and unavoidable collateral damage would cause more havoc than they ever imagined possible.

    In a real full-scale fight with the U.S. government, the overwhelming majority of our gun nuts end up either dead, or fleeing for the Canadian border, or sheltering in the basement as the bombs fall screaming “NOBODY TOLD ME IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE THIIIIIIIIIIS!!!!!!”

  70. 70.

    carolus

    July 19, 2015 at 2:02 pm

    @Chris: There aren’t enough gun nuts with the courage of their convictions to seriously confront the US military. Most talk a big game but when it comes to losing air-conditioning and the Sunday NFL ticket, the vast majority of NRA-types are going to decide they’ve better things to do.

    Of course, this scenario assumes believing there isn’t going to be some large media and propaganda buildup to paint the gun nuts as traitors or a national security threat.

  71. 71.

    Chris

    July 19, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    @carolus:

    That’s also true. Getting ahead of myself by imagining a civil war future.

  72. 72.

    mclaren

    July 19, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    THIS.

    You want the full solution to America’s broken health-care system?

    Here it is.

    When more and more abused ripped-off misdiagnosed butchered and criminally neglected sick people start bringing guns into hospitals and blowing away surgeons, magically…the system will start to change.

    Just wait till aggrieved parents who watched their child die in agony because the insurance company demanded a $13,000 co-payment they couldn’t afford the treatment that would have saved her, and load up their cars with fertilizer and fuel oil and drive in into the hospital emergency room and detonate.

    You’ll see greed-crazed doctors and corrupt hospital administrators and avaricious medical device companies falling all over themselves to find amazing new ways of fixing the United States’ broken dysfunctional murderously greed-choked health care system.

    The doctors will hire armed guards and the hospitals will surround themselves with metal detectors and razor wire and concrete barricades. It won’t help.

    You live by murdering people because they don’t have enough money, you get what you deserve, motherfuckers. You can extort sick peoples’ life savings…but you can’t spend the money if you’re dead.

  73. 73.

    Tyro

    July 19, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    @srv: According to Kathy Curran of WCVB, Stephen Pasceri had a license to carry a gun.

    You actually need to jump through a fair number of hoops to get a gun in Massachusetts. That’s what is ridiculous about this: the guy had so many red flags in his background that you’d have thought that the law should have been designed to prevent him from getting a handgun.

  74. 74.

    boatboy_srq

    July 20, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    @Chris: I still occasionally entertain the fantasy that an mandatory-national-service-interval, all-militia armed force armed completely from personal arsenals would be fun to explore – complete with the personal investments required to maintain a standard comparable to the DoD. The Kochs could supply a CVN or two; Adelson an SSBN; Trump could probably scrape together enough for most of an F-35. Not interested, guys? Not ready to put not only your lives but your own personal firearms (and other more expensive toys) on the front lines? Unhappy about the price tags on the heavy stuff? Got better things to do than defend the Republic? Then pay your taxes, accommodate the laws (including the gun regs) and STFU.

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