The Huckster goes full Godwin:
Former Arkansas governor and GOP presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee blasted President Barack Obama on Saturday over the nuclear deal reached between Iran and world powers, saying that by trusting the Iranians, the president “will take the Israelis and march them to the door of the oven.”
In an interview with Breitbart, the 59-year-old conservative television personality called Obama’s foreign policy “the most feckless in American history” and dubbed the Iran deal “the most idiotic thing.” “It should be rejected by both Democrats and Republicans in Congress and by the American people,” he said.
So does that make the rest of the world who negotiated this the executioners? Where are the Iranians in this analogy?
Who is the real Hitler?
Howard Beale IV
Yet he wants to make the US a Christian version of Iran in order to start the Tribulation.
redshirt
Hitler was actually Jesus and Eva Braun was Mary, the Lover. Not a virgin.
Yatsuno
Dear Huck: I lost ancestors in those ovens. Fuck and You.
Hal
Oh please, oh please, Fox News please let me join your debate.
gogol's wife
@Yatsuno:
Yeah, this has to be a new level of offensiveness for the Repubs.
redshirt
Yet Huckabee’s religion literally wishes for every Jew in Israel to be burned in the fires of Jesus’s return.
Shakezula
So does this mean he views the Nazis as feckless and idiotic?
There really isn’t anything Repugs won’t say and the attention they need is of the airborne squashy fruit and rotten fish arriving at speed variety.
Brachiator
Huckabee and his ilk are certainly intent on doubling down on stupidity. Does he suggest an alternative to the nuclear deal?
Yatsuno
@gogol’s wife: Four dead cops he’s directly responsible for isn’t haunting him enough. He should be reminded of this.
Patrick
Yet, somehow Huckabee’s own God, Ronald Reagan, trusted the EVIL empire and reached a nuclear deal with them. And last time I checked, the EVIL empire was a hell of a bigger threat than Iran.
So what gives, Mr Huckabee????
muddy
Victor Davis Hansen was writing at National Review about how Obama was Hitler in regards to the Iran deal. Usually VDH goes for the Sparta/Persian comparison for everything, regardless. Now here are actual Persians and he jumps to Hitler. I am disappoint.
Seems to be a popular meme. They are all going full Godwin.
redshirt
@Brachiator: LOL as if. You’re not asking seriously, right?
Anne Laurie
Cole: FRIST!
Splitting Image
Seeing as Mike Huckabee is a man who thinks that Caitlyn Jenner is a danger to children and that Josh Duggar is not, I think anything he has to say about the relative dangers of various foreign countries can be taken with a grain of salt.
Also, speaking of feckless foreign policy, there was that time the U.S. invaded the wrong country looking for weapons of mass destruction.
gogol's wife
@Splitting Image:
And strengthened Iran immeasurably in the process.
Ben
The fundie gopers are so completely fucked up that it is scary (and pretty funny at the same time). If schmuckabee wants to talk about Obama’s allegedly “feckless” foreign policy he really needs to take a history lesson and go back to shrub’s administration. Saddam was an asshole of epic proportions, no doubt. Instead of invading Iraq, with lies, innuendo and more lies (it will only cost $500 million), the prudent foreign policy move would have been to embrace Iran to a certain degree and give them some of what they wanted (end to sanctions, status) in exchange for dumping the shitty job of containing and/or beating the shit out of Iraq and Saddam to them. They are the only country in the region with the military, population and willingness to do so. Instead, the brilliant drunkard names Iran as the first country in the “Axis of Evil” (when can we stop the stupid naming shit… war on drugs, war on poverty, wur on terrah) thus further alienating them and then ruining our economy over a country that did have oil, but was basically Cuba. So, dumbya fucks up the economy, foreign policy and everything else he touched and dropped a giant shit sandwich on the next president (Obama). Then, like the republicans always do, they have selective amnesia and blame everything on the Dem. Remember when they were trying to sell the lie that “Obama got us into Iraq, he better do the right thing” nonsense.
For the life of me I can’t figure out why some journo doesn’t get the sand out of their vajayjay and actually challenge the freak show that is the gop beauty contest and call them on their bullshit. Schmuckabee and the rest of the field are too stupid or venal (or both) to actually analyze our current situation and admit that we got here over many, many years and many mistakes, by many people. Everything is so binary with these douche canoes. If anyone is marching Jews to the death chamber it is Bibi. He has pissed off every freakin’ Muslim on the planet over a shitty piece of land. I thought religion was about beliefs and contemplation (prayer) and action, not land. An analogy: as a faithful Texas Longhorn, I would never go to an OU frat party wearing a T-shirt that said BlowU, OU Sucks, toothless Okies or sister fuckers. That is what Israel and the Jews do every day that they inhumanely murder and subjugate the Palestinians. If Israel gets wiped out, the blood is on the hands of the Jews.
/end rant
MattF
I do wonder if this sort of reckless offensiveness is a Trump effect. Go ahead and accuse Obama of being genocidal– red lines are for p***ies.
Brachiator
@muddy:
Yep. This does seem to be the official editorial position of the New Republic. They’ve degenerated into a “stupidest essay comparing Obama to Hitler contest.”
John Revolta
@muddy: I thought Obama was Chamberlain. And Israel is the Sudetenland. Or something. It’s so hard to keep up.
22over7
Trump has sucked all the oxygen out of the R primary. Sure, the other candidates are getting interviews, but the usual platitudes aren’t working. Bush might as well be on vacation. Huckabee’s vile words seem to me to be yet another signal that this race is going to be the flying of the freak flags.
Mandalay
This is what you have to do when the room is full of the stink of Trump’s farts: you have to come up with something that is even more rank and putrid.
And to give Huckabee his due, he pulled that off quite well.
debbie
@Mandalay:
Worse even than Cruz’s promise to rip up a copy of the Koran on his first day in office?
muddy
@John Revolta: Being a fascist communist, Obama can obviously do mutually exclusive things at the same time.
muddy
@debbie: How many pages at a time could he tear up? I’m going with 5.
David Koch
Ask bin LAden how feckless Obama is. But you’re going to need a long extension cord to interview him at the bottom of the ocean.
shell
What does Charlie Pierce call it?
‘Breitbart’s Mausoleum For The Chronically Unemployable.’
dogwood
@Mandalay:
“. . . even more rank and putrid”.
Like shitting on the floor.
Snarki, child of Loki
I guess we can count on Huck and the GOP to turn it all around, and deliver “the most fecked-up foreign policy in American history”. After Dubya, that’s a high bar, but they can do it!
JPL
Have the times changed. It wasn’t that long ago that you couldn’t say Betray us without being shamed.
Mandalay
She really isn’t my cup of tea at all, but good for Debbie Wasserman Schultz:
Now lets see where Chuck Schumer’s loyalties lie: with Huckabee, or with President Obama.
Meg
For these nut jobs, Obama is Hitler and Neville Chamberlain at the same time.
David Koch
I’m just lovin how Trump is now in the frontrunner in New Hampshire and about to overtake walker in Iowa.
shell
“Feckless” is a pretty namby-pamby adjective to use when youre accusing someone of genocide.
MattF
@Snarki, child of Loki: And, btw, ‘feckless’ is a dogwhistle.
ETA: Re: shell: it’s a useful word in Obama-context.
Mandalay
@debbie:
Wow – I haven’t seen that one! And no, Huckabee’s statement was nowhere near that bad.
Keith P.
“Blasted” really is an overused verb in modern political writing. Once I started picking up on how common it is used, I can’t help but notice it every…damn…time. “Rocks” is another one that’s used a lot.
Chris
Yawn.
This would be so much more impressive if it wasn’t their default reaction to literally every development ever that they don’t like.
Mike in NC
Huckster needs to have an apple stuffed in his mouth and then get slowly roasted on a spit.
MattF
@David Koch: What’s notable is how completely wrong the Village is turning out to be about Trump. The political class on the R side is toast.
Josie
I guess Huckabee is probably too smart to tangle with Trump, but I would love to see the Donald do a rant on that mean old preacher.
Patrick
@debbie:
Wow! Can you imagine being a Muslim in our country with a President that is tearing up the Koran? What’s next; Cruz’s internment camps for Muslims?
Kathleen
@Meg: That would explain his British accent while speaking German in Kenya. Or something.
Mandalay
@David Koch:
Sweet. And this is after the entire Village solemnly assured us earlier this week that Trump would be nosediving in the polls due to his over the top comments about McCain.
It’s as though the entire world of political punditry got cooties from Bill Kristol.
Patricia Kayden
Is anyone surprised by what Huckabee said? It’s par for the course with Republicans. Nothing they say can shock anymore. They’re disgusting and I hope that Americans don’t put them back into the White House next year.
dogwood
This would be open an opportunity for Bernie to channel some of his outrage in a different direction. I know he and his supporters don’t think much of Barack Obama, but maybe spending a day or two of righteous anger about the comment and the importance of the Irean deal would gain him a wider audience. It would be nice if Democrats called Huckabee out, but I don’t expect that to happen either.
Patrick
@Patricia Kayden:
We all should be considering he was a Christian minister. He should be preaching love your enemy, turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill etc. Instead he is basically preaching the opposite. It really boggles the mind…
gf120581
@MattF: The proclamation from much of the Beltway media that he was done after the McCain comments just was more proof to me of how out of touch those guys are. The GOP base doesn’t love McCain like the Beltway does. They think he’s a RINO loser who lost to “that one.” Attacking him only made Trump all the more endearing to them.
Huck’s comments, however, are more proof of the damage Trump is doing. Expect more craziness like this as the other GOP candidates try desperately to get media attention away from Trump. For Democratic strategists, it’ll be like Christmas came early.
MattF
@Patrick: Also, Huckabee (once) had a reputation for being brighter and less threatening than your average televangelist. But that was then.
gf120581
@Mandalay: The Beltway doesn’t get that their love of McCain is not reflective of the rest of the country. Especially not the GOP base.
srv
Obama has left his legacy in the hands of the Ayatollahs.
Worked well for Carter.
Gin & Tonic
@shell: They use it because their audience doesn’t know what it means.
MattF
@srv: Funny how Carter’s reputation has revived, now that you mention it.
dogwood
@Mandalay:
You beat me to it. Any democrat who votes to override the president’s veto on the Iran deal is encouraging this crap, because Israel is all that matters to them. I hope Schumer looses big time on this.
Steeplejack (phone)
@muddy:
Completely wrong. Hansen compares the Obama administration, and specifically John Kerry, to Neville Chamberlain and those who appeased Hitler, who now represents the Iranians in this tortured construction.
And screw you for getting me to read that idiotic piece.
Splitting Image
@gogol’s wife:
I loved it when Thomas Friedman, previously known for saying that the point of the Iraq war was to send American soldiers door to door and tell Iraqis to “Suck on This”, later remarked that he didn’t understand why the U.S. went to war in Iraq only to strengthen Iran.
It’s like this, Tom: your country went to war because people like you thought it was a fun romp and didn’t give a shit about the consequences. Talk about feckless.
Capri
@muddy: Funny, I was just reading how Obama was Chamberlain.
Pick a side
Tree With Water
I’d like to speed up the suicide of the republican party, and think it can best be accomplished by their presidential aspirants being called on to answer for each other’s public pronouncements.
For example: we all know where Jeb! stands on “rape by Mexican”. But what exactly does he have to say about Huck’s oven remark? After all, and however inflammatory, it contains the gist of the primary criticism hurled by opponents of the Iranian Nuclear deal. Is that threat overstated? Or is Huck in the ballpark?
Patrick
@srv:
What did you think of the arms deal Reagan did with the EVIL empire? Or was that OK because he was a Republican?
Another Holocene Human
@Yatsuno: Huckabee’s trusties follow him everywhere and all the jams with pedophiles, apologies for pedophiles, and Godwining all over the place will not make them go away.
Betty Cracker
@dogwood: What makes you say Sanders doesn’t think much of PBO? You may be confusing Sanders with some of his more obnoxious supporters on Twitter or DKos. Seems to be a lot of that going around.
muddy
@Steeplejack (phone): Sorry, my eyes must have glazed over when I was weeping for the lack of Persians.
srv
@Patrick: Well, if it’s ok for Obama, then it was ok for Reagan. But thanks for pointing out the left’s hypocrisy.
Another Holocene Human
@22over7: The “nice” Hucksterbee persona seems to have been ditched for the moment.
Very creepy man. With a very creepy child. And creepy friends, also, too.
Brachiator
@debbie:
Did Cruz really say this? In public? During an interview?
Did someone come up to him afterwards and say, “Senator, it’s time for your medication?”
Another Holocene Human
@Mandalay: DWS is good at this sort of bare-knuckle political stuff.
Cooperating, working together, oh, and I dunno, helping more Democrats win more seats in the House? Not really her skillset.
Bill Arnold
@Brachiator:
Don’t know if he is explicit, but yes. Torpedo the deal, so that the Iranians say F-it and develop an actual nuclear arsenal even though it would launch an insanely dangerous Middle East nuclear arms race, then blame Obama (for not bombing Iran). And if a nuclear war results, Big Win. Evil. (This sort of BS anti-diplomacy probably led to a nuclear North Korea.)
The actual (right wing American) calculation appears to be that the Republicans can all vote against the deal but without enough votes to torpedo it, then milk for political gain, any bickering with the Iranians over the fine points of the deal over the next 5 years. Also evil, though less so.
If anyone’s arguments against the deal talk about the numbers old IR-1 centrifuges that Iran can keep, they are either dishonest or ignorant or both. What matters is SWUs/time and the old IR-1’s are not very fast. The number that Iran is allowed to keep under the agreement is a face-saving number, not a useful number given any sort of inspections scrutiny.
The 24 day notice for inspections of undeclared sites is similarly a possible marker of dishonest talking points; there are activities in a nuclear weapons program that could be hidden given 24 days but not hidden given less, but they are not key ones involving enriched uranium because dust tells tales.
Ira-NY
Most of these ass-clowns are running just to keep their grifting speaker gig going. As such, they calibrate their high profile remarks not towards obtaining votes, but towards ears of groups that pay speaking fees. If it hurts the party in the general election, all the better. The speaking opportunities are better when your brand is out of power.
muddy
@Bill Arnold: I also find it implausible that Iran would like to set off nukes just to the west of them. They know which way the wind blows.
Another Holocene Human
@Patricia Kayden:
Nope. #tcot’s been all Godwin all the time for a while, and in the GOP, shit trickles up
Patrick
@srv:
Ok, you lost me. What hypocrisy? I was in favor of Reagan’s deal with the Soviet Union and I think it is OK with Obama’s deal with Iran. Were you in favor of Reagan’s deal? If so, that would make the hypocrite…
BTW – If you are against Obama’s deal, I take it you ready to sign up for the military to join the invasion…
BillinGlendaleCA
@srv: Huh? Reagan’s arm control deals with the Soviets was something Democrats liked. His arms for hostages deals with the Ayatollahs with profits going to the Contra was illegal and he should have been impeached for it.
Brachiator
@srv:
Holy sheet. You’re just full of false equivalence today.
@Steeplejack (phone)
OK. So, who’s Poland?
And if John Kerry is Chamberlain, then who is Obama? And who was Hillary Clinton?
Another Holocene Human
@srv: I clicked on the comment link in a failed attempt to parse your statement and I believe my brain just imploded from
theyour derp.BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: Obama’s the King and Hillary’s the Queen, silly.
MattF
@Brachiator: On the other hand, I’d guess that some levels of derp are only approached though self-medication. You gotta be careful with fentanyl, though– too much and you can sorta forget to keep breathing.
dogwood
@Betty Cracker:
Bernie doesn’t engage in politics on a personal level which is admirable. But it would be naive to assume he thinks Obama has been a good president. He says he agrees with the Iran deal, so this might be a good time to focus on it for awhile. He can’t be president if he can’t feel some passion about anything other than economic populism. The problem is he loses all authenticity when he leaves his comfort zone. I cringe when I see him adding lines to his stump speech. Bernie’s is a great guy and a good senator, but he is fundamentally unsuited to the presidency.
Brachiator
@Bill Arnold:
Again, did Huckabee actually offer an alternative to the Iran deal? I am presuming that the answer is no, and that no reporter pressed Huckabee on the issue.
Also, I don’t agree with your assessment on the GOP position here. I don’t think they even know themselves. But one possible outcome is that the US would end up backing an Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, since Netanyahu’s Israel would never allow Iran to develop a bomb if they could prevent it.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ira-NY: I think this is what is actually going on here. There are enough really, really stupid people out there who send these dipshits money if they say things like this.
Brachiator
@dogwood:
Has anybody asked him? It’s a simple question. And we shouldn’t have to assume anything, one way or another.
Because?
Mandalay
@Another Holocene Human:
OT, but I’m amazed she is still chair at the DNC. The 2012 results were awful, she constantly says really stupid stuff, and apparently neither Obama nor Clinton can stand her. But as you say, she’s pretty good at sticking the boot in when needed.
azlib
Huck is just trying to get some political oxygen. Hard to do with the media’s Trump fixation.
Joseph Nobles
Germany is also a party to this agreement. I’m sure they are really thrilled about being told they are marching Jews to the ovens again.
KG
@Brachiator: I believe the standard RWNJ alternative on the Iran deal goes something like this:
1. more sanctions
2. bomb them anyway
3. profit!
they’re not particularly interested in diplomacy which requires giving as well as taking. it’s the same thing with Cuba, actually. any deal that means we “give up something” even if it is trivial is a loss because the other country didn’t bow to our explicit demands. to them, diplomacy is like the “coalition of the willing” – we will do whatever the fuck we want and you either come along or you get the fuck out of the way. of course, that’s not diplomacy, that’s ham handed empire. which is probably what they really want anyway.
dogwood
@muddy:
Your comment reminded me of a discussion in my classroom years ago about WMDs in Iraq. Eventually some student brought up our duty to protect Israel from being nuked. A student who seldom said a word, calmly asked – is there such a ting as a nuclear bomb that only kills Jews?
Brachiator
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Hah!Somebody should let Michelle Obama know about that Queen thing. She would not be amused.
And then, Bill Clinton would be the first black Queen Mother in this analogy farce.
And all the GOP pretenders are Churchill. Except Donald Trump, who is Henry VIII.
KG
@Brachiator:
FTFY
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator: How many wives has The Donald ordered beheaded?
east is east
Speaking of Hitler, I’ve got a UTI as evidenced by the OTC AZO which came out yup you’ve got it. I’ve known something was wrong for a week but finally decided to investigate it. Tomorrow to the GP. This is fun.
Brachiator
@KG:
And again, instead of reading tea leaves or projecting, I want the GOP candidates, and members of Congress, pressed to give their alternative to the Iran deal.
But even here, the US cannot press sanctions unilaterally. The GOP has been deft in selling the false idea that the negotiations only involve the US and Iran.
And if any Republican wants to advocate a first strike against Iran, or even hold that out as an option, they should be forced to say so, and spell out what they expect Iran to do to avoid US action.
The idea of “profit!” is meaningless in this context.
Cervantes
@Ben:
Nice rant — and more in that vein, please — but … Cuba?
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
Convert to fundamentalist “Christianity” and accede to the US controlling every aspect of their lives.
That’s pretty much what the GOP assholes want. Might as well state it up front and for the record.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
He has sacrificed a few Miss Universe contestants.
Cervantes
@Hal:
That’s about the size of it, I agree.
srv
@Patrick: I did not review your earlier comments and presumed you were talking about the Iran-Freedom Fighters deal. Back when all Americans believed Iran was evil and had not turned it into a partisan issue.
As for the other EVIL Empire, I have to admit that even Reagan could not overcome his second term impairment and we are still living with that mistake today.
Or perhaps you are one of those liberals on Bob’s side.
MattF
@Villago Delenda Est: Hey, not just Iranis, either. The US is a Christian nation, or will be real soon.
David Koch
@Brachiator:
The party of family values.
Another Holocene Human
@Brachiator: They parade around in swimsuits on prime time so their bodies can be adequately judged. But any hint that one of them was naked … for pay … and bye bye crown.
The hypocrisy is stunning, as always.
dogwood
@Brachiator:
Why? Because Bernie isn’t suited for all the crap that comes with being President. I’m sure every president gets annoyed at the endless number of ceremonial duties that fill a weekly calendar. The president must be able to wear many hats. Guys like Barack Oboma look good in just about any hat they put on. Guys like Bernie look fabulous in one hat and not very comfortable in any other style. That’s not a knock on Bernie; in fact it something I admire about him. I can’t imagine Bernie in the White House being derailed every day by Boehner and McConnell and not hating the job. And that’s what is going to happen.
SFAW
@Another Holocene Human:
You and I must be thinking of different DWSes, because the statement Mandalay quoted was pretty close to “Strong letter to follow.”
On the other hand, I do think DWS is sort of feckless, so there’s that.
Bill Arnold
@Brachiator:
A strike? (1) For starters, how would they deliver conventional bunker busters in sufficient numbers? (2) Left unspoken is the fact that the Israelis possess some really (really really) large (non-penetrating?) bunker busters, and the means to deliver them, should they chose to launch a preemptive (nuclear) strike.
Patricia Kayden
Still have to lol at how weak BJ trolls have become. I long for the days pre the 2008 election when our trolls were bleating about unlimited cash. Those were good times. Funny how they disappeared after Nov 2008.
Cervantes
@dogwood:
How do you know this?
Betty Cracker
@dogwood: Sanders has said he likes and respects PBO and that history will be kind to him. They disagree on some issues since Sanders is considerably to Obama’s left, and Sanders has said PBO was naive to think the Republicans would work with him, which isn’t a crazy or disrespectful thing to think.
I don’t think Sanders will be the Democratic nominee, much less POTUS. But he’s raising some important issues, and I think it’s too bad some Democrats seem intent on trashing the guy or ginning up bad blood between Sanders and Obama where none exists. We’ve got real enemies; there’s no need to conjure more.
Mike E
Speaking of The Boys From Brazil (see what I did) where’s Randhino and the cup final thread?
KG
@Brachiator:
depending on which part of the wingularity they’re from profit is either bringing about the final judgment (which, is funny, because it’s incredibly close to what they tell us the mullahs in Iran want) or its profiting off of war (first, there’s the arms manufacturers, then there’s the private “security” contractors, then there’s the fat post war reconstruction contracts, and then there’s oil – let’s never forget the oil), because war is apparently always good for the economy.
g
@srv: Well, if it’s ok for Obama, then it was ok for Reagan. But thanks for pointing out the left’s hypocrisy.
Seriously? You’re equating a diplomatic treaty negotiated by a coalition of nations with an illegal, secret trading of arms to fund death squads?
What a great example you are of Republican values. This explains a lot.
SFAW
@Patricia Kayden:
Let’s see what happens in 2016 before declaring victory over unlimited corporate cash. Considering how well the Dems have done in non-Presidential races since Citizens United, and considering that it takes a couple of cycles to ramp up the full apparatus, I am less than sanguine about ’16. But I tend to be pessimistic, so who knows?
slag
Remember when Mike Huckabee pretended to be a compassionate conservative? Those were the days.
Iowa Old Lady
I think the RWNJ alternative is “Obama is bad” and also “Vote for me.”
I’m not sure there’s anything deeper for most of them.
PIGL
@Mike in NC: I think I has discovered the appropriate use for an oubliette. What a shame they have fallen out of favor in recent centuries. Your modern seats of power are rarely so equipped.
Cervantes
@Patrick:
Boggles the mind?
History of Christianity, history of the Papacy, histories of individual Popes, histories of various Inquisitions, histories of various Christian missions, proselytizers, colonists, and conquistadors, specific history of Christianity in North America — begin anywhere.
GregB
It’s obvious that Donald Trump has sucked so much oxygen from the other Republicans that they are starting tho show signs of collective brain damage.
Fuck Huck.
Mike E
Gooool…Mexico. Jamaica are now regretting not capitalizing on early chances.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes:
To be fair, that stuff rather boggles the mind as well.
David Koch
Secret Service had their hands full today.
In this clip you can hear the normally unflappable Pete Souza overwhelmed, saying “jesus”.
henqiguai
@GregB (#112):
Um, not even with *your* wee-wee.
Brachiator
@Bill Arnold:
I would expect that Israel would develop some contingency plans for an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, with and without US support.
However, the larger problem is that the GOP and the GOP presidential pretenders are allowed to do empty saber rattling, and have not been pressed on what their ideas about dealing with Iran might be, except to cozy up to Netanyahu, mouth pious nonsense about “loyalty to Israel” and spout BS about Obama somehow being Hitler Chamberlain IV.
Suzanne
This is why, as someone who finds tRump detestable, I hope he stays in the race for a long time. He drives them to say ever-more-repulsive things, until they lose even more support as more and more people can no longer ignore what horrible people they really are.
dogwood
@Betty Cracker:
I like Sanders no matter what he thinks of the president. Nothing I said “trashed” Bernie.
dogwood
@Suzanne:
mike with a mic
@KG:
It’s not about profit. What they want is a permanently crippled Iran so Israel and our “Sunni Allies” don’t have a competent regional rival to deal with. Their regional rival would be an economically and militarily crippled third world nation unable to handle it’s own people let alone run a sphere of influence.
And, rationally, that’s not that bad of an idea and is good foreign policy 101, it’s what we should do. Except for one small thing, our “Sunni Allies”, are not really allies. At least, not like say the UK, France, South Korea, or Japan. Would it make sense to do that to say an Asian rival of Japan, yeah in a fucking second because Japan is an amazing ally. But why the hell should we do that for Saudi Arabia? Oddly, Iran is on our side against the majority of our problems, so shoving them around makes no fucking sense at all.
If you can’t correctly identify who your allies are, and who isn’t an ally but a back stabbing SOB any policy you come up with is a bad policy. And the Republicans still think it’s the fucking cold war and haven’t figured out just who is on our side yet.
Their Iran policy would make sense, if applied to the right target, Iran is not that target.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
But isn’t that pretty much a comprehensive history of institutional Christianity not as it may be preached but as the planet has experienced it?
Shall we say then that Christianity cannot fail; it can only be failed?
Cervantes
@dogwood:
How much you like Sanders was not the issue. The question was how you “know” he does not think much of Obama.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: All I was saying is that the history of Christianity is rather mind boggling. A religion that preaches love and then burns people to demonstrate it – I would say that is mind boggling.
Patrick
@Cervantes:
Oh, I am just being sarcastic. Preachers of Christianity have almost nothing to do what Jesus actually preached. Huckabee is just par for the course.
Roger Moore
@GregB:
The operative word being “show”. Those in the know have spotted the Republican brain damage for quite a while.
dogwood
@Suzanne:
Frankly, if I had too choose among that disgusting crew, I might just go with Trump. No matter what else he might do, we might just get some new “classy” airports and “yooooge” bridges.
Brachiator
@Another Holocene Human:
This is just American hypocrisy. The GOP doesn’t have a monopoly on this.
@David Koch
Some people want to insist that Trump is just another Republican, or that he is just Bad Republican Writ Large, but I think that he is appealing to folks who are not part of the traditional GOP base. And Trump may well be a hypocrite, but this is not the same as the typical family values GOP hypocrisy.
KG
@mike with a mic:
not to go Goodwin, but that didn’t really work well in the 1920s in Germany… or for that matter, in the 1950s in China (considering your Japan analogy). That policy would lead to another revolution in Iran – and let’s be honest, the American Revolution aside, those don’t tend to end well. Or it leads to a regime that unites the Iranian people against foreign enemies, which again, historically doesn’t bode well for many parties involved.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sure, it’s mind-boggling, if one takes the institutional church in, ahem, good faith, or at face value — rather than as fundamentally a means of control.
Cervantes
@Patrick:
Yes, I could not agree more.
Brachiator
@dogwood:
You seem to suggest that Sanders is not temperamentally suited to the ceremonial aspects of the office. This seems to me to be trivial, and other presidents have bristled at this part of the job.
However, I thank you for taking the time to spell out your views here.
BTW, if we get a female president, there is going to have to be a realignment of many ceremonial duties related to the presidency. Nobody wants Bill Clinton as First Gentleman, hanging out with the spouses of visiting dignitaries.
Other countries sometimes make separate the office of head of government and head of state. Maybe it’s time for a little of that here.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator:
I am totes sure that a Constitutional Convention will work work out really well. I sure the GOP will be very helpful.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, it is an amusing — or maybe terrifying — exercise, to imagine the kind of “Miracle in Philadelphia” we’d get from the current crew!
PaulW
to the Far Right, they have never loved making treaties with “the enemy” be it the Soviets or the Chinese or the Iranians.
How many times have the neocons invoked MUNICH 1938 as the end-all be-all of OMG WE’RE SURRENDERING. Honestly, I’m asking, I lost count.
For Huckabee to accuse Obama of inciting another Holocaust by creating a treaty with Iran that for all intents ENDS the Iranian nuclear weapons program is the most crass and most disgusting accusation of all. By trying to invoke one of the greatest bloody tragedies of modern history, he is essentially doing what every Republican candidate has done since Nixon in 1968: using the fear of others and the suffering of others to score cheap political points.
I hope to God Huck’s poll numbers drop so low he misses the debate cut.
KG
@Brachiator:
I dunno, that could be fun. and as for the split between head of government and head of state, that would likely require giving the Speaker of the House more than power as head of government (essentially like a prime minister). It would also require serious amendments to the constitution.
KG
@Omnes Omnibus: a full blown constitutional convention would be the surest way to see the end of the American experiment. It is hard to imagine that anyone could write a constitution that would pass muster in California, New York, Texas, and Alabama these days.
dogwood
@Brachiator:
I agree. Trump has no real connection to the Republican Party or the shady institutions that have spawned and perpetuated movement conservatism. That’s why he fell for the birther crap. Someone gave him an article from WorldNet and off he went. If he had even a passing acquaintance the right wing, he might have taken a pass.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore: The Village has been willfully ignorant of the damage over the past 35 years. As if their very careers depended on them being blind to the reality.
dogwood
@Brachiator:
One of the big advantages for leaders in a parliamentary system is that the head of government and the head of state are separate. We asks our presidents to be prime minister and king/queen/president at the same time. It’s a daunting task.
gelfling545
@dogwood: Unsuitable? More so than any Republican candidate you can think of?
PaulW
@srv:
Obama has left his legacy in the hands of Obama.
dogwood
@gelfling545:
Well, since I’m not voting for any of them I don’t spend that much time thinking about them in any respect other than to mock them.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
@Brachiator:
You mean National Review. The New Republic is in favor of the deal. I’m sure there are some legacy articles from the Marty Peretz era still on the site, but they don’t reflect the current editorial positions.
dogwood
@PaulW:
And W left his legacy in the hands of Dick Cheney.
magurakurin
@Betty Cracker:
You should go over to DKOS and tell that to the Sanders supporters there. They believe Hillary Clinton is an arch-demon spawned by Satan himself. The hatred for her is intense and honestly, totally undeserved in my opinion.
Obama, Clinton, and Sanders just aren’t that far about ideologically. If we try to place them on the generic political spectrum, the average of their positions puts Sanders to the left, but in reality Sanders is quite far to the right of the other two on several issues.
I got no problem with Bernie Sanders. Like Ghandi said, I like your Bern, I do not like your Bern Believers. Your Bern Believers are so unlike your Bern.
catclub
@Yatsuno: If he ever rises in the polls enough to be a threat, he will get reminded, often.
Roger Moore
@Villago Delenda Est:
Or as if they suffer from Republican brain damage themselves, since one of the symptoms is inability to recognize it in others.
mike with a mic
@KG:
Iran is not Germany or China, you’re making the same mistakes as the right here. Congrats Cruz!
catclub
@mike with a mic:
The usual not very good ally is Saudi Arabia, but Turkey seems to be catching up. 10 bombing runs on Kurdish militias for every bombing run against ISIS. Rounding up terrorists in Turkey and just happening to get mostly Kurds.
RaflW
Who is the real Hitler?
I’m not sure, but it is clear that Huckabee and the 14 other candidates are incredibly frightened of … Donald.
That’s what I read in the quote up top. It says very clearly: Help! my candidacy is disappearing, I can’t attack Trump, so I’ll call Obama an oven-lighting-Jew-hater.
Amazing.
Hurling Dervish
@Brachiator: I thought Breitbart was dead. Does this mean the Reckoning is already here?
Ben
@Brachiator: If Israel wants to bomb/nuke Iran or any other country, they should do it on their own. Without US support or US $$$$$$$. They’ve turned into the 51st state and US support for Israel has proven to be bad for our country.
gogiggs
@muddy:
This is the beauty of Obama! On this Iran deal he’s Chamberlain and Hitler! He’s a godless Muslim! He’s accomplished nothing and he’s changed everything!