Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

People are complicated. Love is not.

This fight is for everything.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Americans barely caring about Afghanistan is so last month.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: You Go, Girl

Open Thread: You Go, Girl

by | 279 Comments

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Beeyotch is totally stealing Bernie’s excellent socialist ideas — for which I suspect Senator Sanders would be thrilled, since he’s more about getting things done than getting the credit. Except, not so much, from the CNN article:

The New Jersey governor responded to a tweet from Clinton in support of Obamacare during Tuesday’s Fox Business Network debate.

“Note to candidates who boast that they’d repeal Obamacare: Healthcare should be a right – not a privilege for those who can’t afford it,” she tweeted.

“What I’d say to the 330 million people of America is grab onto your wallet because Hillary Clinton’s next move is to have universal health care, single-payer system with the government taking over the whole health care system,” he said…

Clinton said Monday at a Windham, New Hampshire, town hall she doesn’t support a Medicare-for-all system.

“First of all, I support Medicare and I support it because it has one of the lowest administrative costs of any insurance provider in America and it is demonized and attacked all the time when the facts are quite contrary,” she said.

“But there are problems with trying to move to a Medicare-for-all system in our country because the majority of people in America get their health care through their employers and maybe it is a choice we wouldn’t had necessarily made,” she added. “But in every bit of work I have done, every research study I have shown, people are not ready to give up their private health care. It is a very hard sell to convince them to do so.”

Dang. But she’s… not wrong, unfortunately. The Repubs haven’t updated their lies any over the last twenty years, but Hillary has gotten infinitely better at respondng to them.

***********
Apart from the usual, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

279Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    Apart from the usual, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

    I plan to find more ways to work the word “obstreperous” into conversation.

  3. 3.

    RaflW

    What is (briefly) on my agenda is venting some spleen about WATB Ray la Hoodornament.
    And the NYT for giving him a platform to tsk-tsk Obama for not being nice to Republicans.
    What a twerp.

  4. 4.

    Corner Stone

    @RaflW:

    And the NYT for giving him a platform to tsk-tsk Obama for not being nice to Republicans.

    Sorry but who made this Republican the Sec DoTransportation again?

  7. 7.

    Baud

    As far as I can tell from his website, Bernie isn’t proposing Medicare for All either. The only health piece there related to prescription drugs.

  14. 14.

    schrodinger's cat

    @Corner Stone: Yes! I am. I have become a fan of the incorrigible Lalu Prasad Yadav. He is no saint. He is uncivil and hated by India’s elite media and he just gave Modi an electoral wedgie. Wish there were more Democrats like him.

  18. 18.

    JPL

    @schrodinger’s cat: I’d save the big words for Trump.

    @RaflW: It’s All in The Family. Now that his son is in congress, LaHood has to prove that he’s a loyal Republican. What’s interesting is that the Republican Congress wouldn’t give him the time of day.

  20. 20.

    Calouste

    So I didn’t have time to post this earlier on the appropriate thread, but here is a little math:

    Donald Trump says he is worth $10 billion. He is been in business for about 40 years, so he made about $250 million per year, although probably more now.The Trump organization has about 22,500 employees, which means that using the average above, Trump makes about $11,000 per employee he employs each year. If he wants to make America more competitive, there something there that points to a really straightforward solution.

  21. 21.

    Villago Delenda Est

    ZOMG, she’s talking about the General Welfare! How unAmerican! How socialist! How Muslin! My pearls, they must be clutched! Elizabeth, I’m comin’ to join you!

  25. 25.

    bemused

    I ran errands this afternoon and picked a couple of items from a gal who makes some nice products using essential oils. As we were chatting about her move to a new location and some of her other products, out of nowhere she asks me if I ever watch Alex Jones. My brain was reeling. What? No, not that Alex Jones. I don’t know what my face looked like but it’s a safe bet I looked shocked. So I ask, you mean Alex Jones the conspiracy theorist? She said yes, why, don’t you like him? I said no, rather firmly. She asked why and as I was leaving I more or less said he was nuts.

    She’s always pleasant and I just feel depressed and sad that people are sucked into this crap.

  28. 28.

    amk

    @RaflW:

    Yeah, all the whites ganged up on the black guy from day one to destroy him and were disappointed that he didn’t kiss their corrupt asses.

    Guess you can never take the whiny whingeing out of the rethugs.

  33. 33.

    Scratch

    Because frontpager Richard’s post is sliding down the page and now that I’m home again, I’d like to thank the generous contributors who made donations to the JDRF today here in this open thread.

    My incident with the car has resulted in a simple fracture of the bone in the thumb tip. Which makes typing a bit more cumbersome, but at least it wasn’t anything super serious. And I can still run.

  34. 34.

    Keith G

    @Corner Stone: Don’t know. Someone tried to fetch him for answers, but no one found where he was staying. He either took a powder or had Hamilton tickets. Woof.

  35. 35.

    jl

    Good for HRC. I’m more in line with Sanders on policies, and having given Sanders almost a hundred bucks, I am a Sanders mega-donor.
    But HRC is better at explaining things, and I think re-assures people that she understands issues more than Sanders.
    I think HRC will be more effective at countering GOP BS with most people.

    I think both HRC and Sanders both miss that measures to make the current ACA work better and cost less are same things that are necessary to move towards single payer that is affordable and provides quality care.

    Two big things would be: movement towards fewer basic plans rather than the robot’s breakfast of metal we have now, and more price transparency to eliminate effect of local insurance and provider price discrimination to gouge anyone they can get in a tight spot. These are big issues and failure to address them played a big role in failure of Vermont’s attempt at single payer, which ran into problems because it appeared to be more expensive than it would have been if state government has been willing to tackle those issues adequately, rather than having to justify tax increases up front and deal with the issues that created excess expenditures later..

  37. 37.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @jl: Price transparency is absolutely key to getting markets to behave like markets are supposed to behave, which is why corporate entities seek to obfuscate as much as they can, because they really don’t like markets much…markets cut into profits and bonuses for parasite executives.

  38. 38.

    bemused

    @amk:

    They are also extremely pissed off that Obama is intelligent, has a great sense of humor, ditto Michelle and has managed to get a lot done in his presidency despite their derailing efforts. The Obamas are just a nice, decent family with no scandals which really infuriates them. If the Obamas had been white and Republican, they would have been put on a higher pedestal than Ronnie and Nancy.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Baudcare is true universal healthcare. Health, vision, and dental. For your whole family, including your cats and dogs.

    Don’t accept other candidates’ discriminatory, human-centric milquetoast healthcare proposals.

  40. 40.

    Corner Stone

    @AxelFoley: No, my mama made him pancakes after they balled all night. Your kneepad crush mad LaHood, a Republican, our Sec of Transpo and gave him a prominent platform to clap back. Ala Judd Gregg.

  42. 42.

    schrodinger's cat

    @beltane: Bihar has been one of India’s politically progressive states post Independence. Jay Prakash Narayan, who spearheaded the movement against Indira Gandhi’s Emergency was from Bihar.
    Pre-independence Gandhi’s first successful Satyagraha was in Champaran which is in Bihar. One of the reasons it is so poor now is because it was among the first regions to fall to the British. It was bled dry for almost two hundred years. Bihar is the cradle of the Indian civilization, where Ashoka ruled and Buddha preached his sermons.

  43. 43.

    Corner Stone

    @Face:

    See if you can wedge “gallimaufry” into a work meeting or two as well.

    That was the other part of my agenda. To think about work as little to none as possible.
    Steepman, I’m following your lead!

  44. 44.

    Patricia Kayden

    @RaflW: Why should President Obama be nice to people who met on the day of his first inauguration and vowed to oppose everything he proposed during his tenure? Give me even one good reason.

    Hope I never live to see another Republican President but I can guarantee you that the media won’t be kind to Democratic politicians who treat a Republican President the way Republicans have treated President Obama (and President Clinton for that matter).

  46. 46.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Baud:

    including your cats and dogs.

    Nikki smiled when I told her that, or it could be the vitamin and jerky treat she just ate.

  47. 47.

    bemused

    @debbie:

    Yes! I have been wondering if I should have said more to her but I was so stunned. Sure didn’t expect to be asked about Alex Jones, ever.

  48. 48.

    PurpleGirl

    After an Indian themed dinner for Diwali, I’m setting things aside (clothes, books, etc.) for the weekend. Going to Putnam CT for a housewarming party for Cassie Packard and the formal opening of Cassie’s Kitten Kastle in her new home. The party will be livestreamed on Sunday afternoon.

    Her faceBook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/CassiesKittenKastle

    The livestream can be accessed from there. I invite all BJs to watch us. (Yes, I will be on cam.) I will be playing with kittens and cats this weekend.

  50. 50.

    A guy

    Got in from bow hunting a little bout an hour ago. I took a tough shot at a doe around 4 pm but missed. Found my arrow though so that saves me 8 bucks. I’m gonna drink a few beers, watch football and wait to see if the Missouri Football team announces it won’t play till Melissa Click or Payton Head resign

  53. 53.

    Pogonip

    Anne, do not underestimate the effectiveness of attacking health care. The other day the Washington Post interviewed a guy whose life was saved by Obamacare. He doesn’t approve of Obamacare and would vote against it if it came on the ballot.

    There are a lot of crazy people out there. Most of them vote.

  54. 54.

    jl

    @Villago Delenda Est: Any sane business person will do anything to avoid ‘price hell’, that is, competition on price in a market with a fairly standardized product.

    The Swiss have the only half-way decent more or less privately funded and provided health care system, and they achieved it by very heavy market regulation that forced insurers and providers into ‘price hell’ on the basic mandatory health insurance plan. The escape valve for ‘freedom of choice’ is a much less regulated supplemental insurance market that is entirely separate from the basic mandatory policy market. So, I been mentioning the Swiss approach to health insurance and provider regulation, since, if you want to go the mostly private route, why not at least try to a system that exists and works? Cheaper than ours, and provides excellent care if you look at changes in Swiss life expectancy for pretty much any age group, since the system was put in place after some brutal and vicious electoral and political fights there.

    And Swiss system was used as a bait and switch in a highly publicized reactionary effort to go to unregulated free market. So, we can say we are just following the reactionaries’ advice.

    So, go Swiss to get the ACA working better, and then that paves the way to Australia Medicare for all, which has been similarly successful and providing excellent care at less cost than US. You can look at changes in Australian life expectancy at pretty much any age group since their reforms too.

  55. 55.

    debbie

    Arghh, in moderation for links. Did anyone watching the debate see the anti-CFPB ad? They’re blaming the CFPB for denying the loans everyone wants. The CFPB has NOTHING to do with denying loans! Elizabeth Warren attacked right back as soon as the ad ran, which is a good thing.

  57. 57.

    PurpleGirl

    Why is my comment from 7:09 in moderation. I mentioned Cassie’s Kitten Kastle and gave her FB page URL. Argh!

  60. 60.

    jl

    @debbie: That is one reason I really like Warren, she goes on offensive against BS very quickly and loudly. I wish both HRC and Sanders would do that too.

    Sanders has been complaining about lack of debates and should be debates between Dems and GOP in primary. I didn’t watch the debate, but did look at some coverage and saw a few clips. Man looks like the candidates BS’d and lied their way all the way through without a peep from the moderators. And the moderators stunk from what I have seen. In the supposed Big Controversy, the moderator had no comeback when Paul (I think) said China is not a party to TPP. That is true and good comeback for some provisions of TPP, but not things like currency management issue. And the whole framework is designed to try to force China to join at future date. Oh well, CNBC and Fox business journalists are ignorant, slow on their feet and suck, like I did not suspect that?

    Anyway, Sanders could get a lot of free media by loudly countering GOP BS after each GOP debate, why doesn’t he? HRC better, but I wish she would be more aggressive.

  70. 70.

    jl

    Since damn lies at the GOP debate came to my mind, Paul’s assertion that Democratic States have more income or wealth inequality than GOP states is total BS. Not much relationship at all on any measure. Except proportion of population under federal poverty income level, where GOP states reign supreme.

    The Increasingly Unequal States of America Income Inequality by State, 1917 to 2012
    epi dot org / publication/income-inequality-by-state-1917-to-2012

  71. 71.

    srv

    So many opportunities lost:

    WASHINGTON — When President Obama first won the White House, he recruited Ray LaHood, a Republican congressman, to join his cabinet. The appointment, Mr. Obama said, “reflects that bipartisan spirit” that would distinguish his presidency.

    Seven years later and now out of office, Mr. LaHood has concluded that the opposite turned out to be true. Rather than reflecting the bipartisan spirit of the Obama presidency, Mr. LaHood said his appointment as secretary of transportation came to reflect its failure.

    Despite the glowing words, Mr. Obama abandoned his promise to govern across the aisle, Mr. LaHood said in an interview. The only elected Republican in Mr. Obama’s original cabinet, Mr. LaHood said the president never made a sustained effort to reach out and gave up too easily. As a result, he became isolated and reliant on a group of like-minded advisers.
    …
    In the interview and the book, Mr. LaHood recounted his excitement at joining the new administration — and his quick disappointment at its opening gambits. In the interest of passing an economic stimulus package quickly to counter the deep recession he inherited, Mr. Obama agreed to a strategy of allowing Nancy Pelosi, the California Democrat who then served as House speaker, to pass it without Republicans.

    “I think they felt like they need to push this through quickly to get the economy moving,” Mr. LaHood said in the interview. “And, boom, they made a decision that they were going to pass economic stimulus with just Democratic votes. That was the beginning of the end of bipartisanship.”
    …
    He added, “The White House had reached this decision without consulting me, the person they had selected to promote bipartisanship.”

    And now only another 8 years of the same to offer.

  72. 72.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    Just got connected to the in-flight wi-fi on my flight to Las Vegas. They had some problems and rebooted their gizmo.

    United 866, for disaster tracking purposes. Headwinds and some turbulence, which has interrupted my gin-and-tonic flow.

    Ah, it looks like beverage service is about to resume.

    Salient fact: I scored a $75 upgrade to first class. I never want to leave. The tandoori chicken was excellent. (The lobster mac ’n’ cheese sounded too much like Quiki Mart sushi.) And so far no one has asked me to pay for the gin-and-tonics. I may be able to drink my way through the upgrade fee. Profit!

  73. 73.

    SFAW

    @Face:

    See if you can wedge “gallimaufry” into a work meeting or two as well.

    OK, here goes:

    Not to go all Doctor-Who-dweeblike, but: When the Daleks attacked Gallimaufry (which itself is located in a binary star system within the constellation Obstreperous) during the last Time War, the Time Lords (other than the Doctor) were in a bit of a pickle.

    It’s not a work meeting, so I guess I should only get partial credit.

  75. 75.

    Davis X. Machina

    …in every bit of work I have done, every research study I have shown, people are not ready to give up their private health care. It is a very hard sell to convince them to do so.

    What’s the problem?

    If the last few years have taught us anything it’s that with a few sufficiently stirring speeches, a little Congressional arm-twisting, some bully-pulpiting, a fireside chat or two and Bob’s your uncle.

    The secret is a president who wants it bad enough. The rest is just technique.

  80. 80.

    Brandon

    Beeyotch is totally stealing Bernie’s excellent socialist ideas — for which I suspect Senator Sanders would be thrilled, since he’s more about getting things done than getting the credit.

    Is there some sort of cocoon or fever swamp of the internet where Bernie Sanders supporters are calling Hillary Clinton the “b-word”? What am I missing here? I am not really sure what the point of interjecting Bernie Sanders in this post does or proves really. If the objective of this “Bernie bro” nonsense is the turn average democratic voters off to the primary process, it is working. I’m already tired of this nonsense and refuse to even pay attention at all. I just hope for Hillary Clinton’s sake that she knows what to do once gets the nomination. Turn off enough people and it will be hard to convince them to vote in the general.

  83. 83.

    Hawes

    Rumor has it Cohen and other Blue Dogs proposed a public option in ’94 instead of the universal plan she offered. Rumor has it she turned it down at the time. I’ve always wondered if those rumors were true. If so, like the Kennedy-Nixon missed opportunity, what a…..missed opportunity.

  86. 86.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @bemused: Several years ago I was getting my hair cut and the lady barber started talking about how much she loved to listen to Michael Savage. The way she said it sounded like she was confessing to something naughty, and that she was letting me in her little secret.

    I made a mental note to never give her my money again.

    —————————————————————–

    “But there are problems with trying to move to a Medicare-for-all system in our country because the majority of people in America get their health care through their employers and maybe it is a choice we wouldn’t had necessarily made,” she added. “But in every bit of work I have done, every research study I have shown, people are not ready to give up their private health care. It is a very hard sell to convince them to do so.”

    I’ve always hated having employers (of all people) anywhere near me and my family’s health insurance. What a horrible system.

  91. 91.

    Bex

    @RaflW: Yeah and his dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks kid was just elected to Ray’s former seat in the House, courtesy of another loser Aaron Schock.

  92. 92.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @JMG:

    I fly infrequently enough that any airline is a crap shoot. United has some of the few nonstops to Vegas, and that’s how Steep rolls: nonstop. I don’t want to “connect” with a stop in San Francisco. WTF. Five and a half hours out, 4½ coming back. Git ’er done!

    And my experience on United hasn’t been bad, although this just in: flight attendant has informed me they’re out of gin. I’ve had to step down to vodka. What the hell?

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    If only Obama had not been so damned near,

    Well, he was sorta the sheriff, so of course he was near. Or was that what you meant?

    Of course, it is to laugh that LaHood tries to pass off that Obama was the one who ended bipartisanship. Oh, right, LaHood didn’t pay any attention to Minority Leader Yertle, because that was the Senate, not the House, and so he didn’t care.

    Lying prick.

  95. 95.

    jl

    @Brandon: I been going to some Bernie functions, and I’ve never heard a Berniebot use language like that. Maybe some idiot Sanders fans in social media are doing it.

    And I am not sure HRC can be accused of wholesale adoption of Sanders’ positions. Yes, on Keystone. But on TPP and health care reform, I think HRC is more like hedging, acknowledging merit in some of Sanders’ positions that have gotten him enthusiastic support, but not really committing herself. IIRC and have not missed anything, HRC said she is now doubtful about how TPP evolved during negotiations, and she indicated willingness to criticize it publicly. I didn’t see her actually come out against it.

    That is not a criticism of HRC and I am not sure it indicates cynicism or political calculation. I really can’t say that since her position on TPP is the same as mine, actually. Except I think I am less optimistic that changes from what we know of it now will make any difference. So, the question is whether HRC is BSing about whether her concerns are real or not, and I won’t guess at that. From what I have seen of leaked texts, parts of it are better than expected, but other parts, mainly concerned it IP, are far worse. Is the final text public yet?

  97. 97.

    MazeDancer

    @gogol’s wife:

    I loved this story about a cat cafe that’s opened up in New York.

    Great story!

    Anything that helps NYC kitties get off the streets without going to death row at the NYC shelter is a wonderful thing.

    Seriously, if anyone ever needs a cat, there are death row tweets every Thursday about kitties going to their doom Friday AM there. They will save them if you call. Likely we could find someone to go get kitty and imagine BJ would help ship them to you.

    Of course, everyone has a local shelter where way too many cats are looking for a home. A good place to start. Here’s hoping every city gets a Cat Cafe!

  98. 98.

    Archon

    @srv:

    LOL! If only Obama would have been a little more patient and open-minded, Republicans would have met him with open arms. And the Republican leadership getting together on day one to obstruct the President was just a thought experiment, they didn’t really mean it.

  99. 99.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): Have a nice flight. I’ve not flown in years, but when I worked for Satan I’d sometimes get an upgrade to first class, the drinks were free.

    ETA: Everytime I see that “Sky-High” I think of an old and quite silly Alaskan Airlines commercial.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    I used to go to a chiropractor who listened to right-wing talk radio while he was working on me. Between that and the fact that he didn’t pay attention when I told him I had an old whiplash injury and screwed up my neck, I stopped seeing him. I really need to find a new one.

  102. 102.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Davis X. Machina: Nope, people are very resistant to change. ObamaCare was a minor tweak, and look at the resistance it got during implementation. A change to single-payer, which I think would be the best in the long run, would be a clusterfuck and would lead to massive party losses in the next election.

  103. 103.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): I know you’re a “broadway baby” so I figured you’d love it.

    And I like Diana Ross’ version of Home, but Miss Stephanie Mills…wooh let me tell you she sang the hell out of that song when she was young and older and now at 58, she STILL sounds damn good.

    I’m real excited bout this one.

    And yeah, I’ve never watched any of the telecast, and Sound of Music is probably my fav musical of like all time…but I’ll be darned if I was gonna watch Carrie Underwood and dude from True Blood as Maria and the Capt when it was already so perfectly done by Julie and Christopher

  104. 104.

    Keith G

    @Brandon:

    What am I missing here?

    This FPer is over the moon and stars for HRC so maybe that influenced her muse to passive aggressiveness. Or maybe it’s nothing at all and it’s you who are seeing things that are not meant. I don’t know. I can’t see from my distance.

  107. 107.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @A guy: Ya might want to learn to use the reply button, it’s at the lower right of the comment you’re replying to.

  108. 108.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    It probably helps that I don’t know anything about the cast of this new production, because it was the casting that turned me off of watching “Sound of Music” or “Peter Pan.” There was a certain whiff of contractual obligation.

  109. 109.

    gogol's wife

    I got home from a hard day’s work and had a voice-mail message. I retrieved it, and it was a robo-call from Ben Carson! “Goodness sakes, we just have to repeal Obamacare and let Americans take control of their own health care!” I couldn’t listen to much more than that.

  111. 111.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    So, three weeks of house- and dog-sitting while my RWNJ brother is on a motorcycle trip in South America: 2,200 miles from Santiago de Chile down to the southern tip, then a flight to Buenos Aires for a day before coming home. It’ll be like The Motorcycle Diaries in reverse. I’ll be scanning Headline News for “Teatards Cause International Incident.”

    For my part, good restaurants, good weather (highs in the mid-60s), quality time with my aged mother and with an old friend from college.

  112. 112.

    sparrow

    @Brandon: Anne Laurie is basically campaigning for Hillary 24/7 on BJ. She doesn’t like Sanders (purely, as far as I can tell, because he is Hillary’s rival), but tries not to show it. It’s still obvious.

    I would like it if we could counter Anne Laurie’s incessant campaigning with someone from the Sanders camp. And heck, why not O’Malley too, while he’s still in it.

  114. 114.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): What’s he doing with the bike when he gets there? From what I’ve read Ushuaia is very very insistent that if you drove it in, you drive it out. Otherwise I think it’d become the Southern Hemisphere’s biggest junkyard.

  115. 115.

    A guy

    Billing lien- sorry man I’ve not learned that in running 5 business and deer hunting and messing with you folk all at the same time.

  117. 117.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Ya might want to learn to use the reply button, it’s at the lower right of the comment you’re replying to.

    Give a guy a reply, he’ll hear you for a minute. Teach him to reply, you’ll hear from him the whole thread.

  122. 122.

    Germy Shoemangler

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): There are actually laws in some states that forbid them to touch anyone’s neck. People have suffered strokes from aggressive neck “manipulation” (torn carotid arteries, etc.)

  125. 125.

    SFAW

    @A guy:

    You forgot to mention that you’re typing this while running an ultra-marathon, plus negotiating with Putin on something or other.

    All while cooking a gourmet meal that rivals anything from Bocuse or Pepin, as well as writing the screenplay for Star Wars EpVIII, as well as building — by yourself, of course — a 30,000 square foot mansion, financed with the proceeds from the sale of the other 23 companies you were running until three weeks ago. Not to mention finding Amelia Earhart’s Model 10, as well as Judge Crater’s remains.

  126. 126.

    ksmiami

    @Patricia Kayden: I hope I speak for most people 45 and under when I say – First – may there never be a Republican elected president again – ever and further. I really don’t care what the media says or (to put it kindly) “thinks.” about Democrats who take a pair of pliers and a blowtorch and go medieval on the GOP’s a**. About damn time we call out these effing bullies and anarchists who think somehow Americans getting the ability to “buy” healthcare is the worstest socialist ploy in the world. The whole party is a cesspool of degenerate scumbags that offer nothing but fear and greed and a very dark vision of America. “You hear me hill-billy boy?”

  129. 129.

    trollhattan

    @bemused:
    My entire Alex Jones knowledge is from a BBC news show appearance wherein he was going off on some Grand Complex Conspiracy, one host asked him, “If they are so powerful why are you still alive?” which really spun him up and while that was happening the second host addresses the camera “You’re watching such and such program and we have an idiot for a guest.”

    One of the truly beautiful television moments of my lifetime.

  130. 130.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Germy Shoemangler:

    He went on one last year through Peru. RWNJobbery unchanged. Apparently what happens in South America stays in South America. Or it’s fine what they do down there, just none of it in the good ol’ USA, thanks.

  133. 133.

    SFAW

    @ksmiami:

    The whole party is a cesspool of degenerate scumbags that offer nothing but fear and greed and a very dark vision of America.

    I am SO sick and tired of you Third Way types.

  136. 136.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Inorite?

    Flight attendant just offered me another drink, so at least I know “out of gin” wasn’t code for “No more for 5-B! Cut him off!”

  139. 139.

    Corner Stone

    @sparrow: Nothing to do with HRC. What is the actual point of having 12 debates? More free media as MM posited? Bullshit.
    Get off your angle and come to the realization that if 6 don’t cut it, how in the fuck would 12?

  140. 140.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Right. I like that the producers did like the original play and went for an unknown to play Dorothy. The rest of the cast is pretty awesome too. NeYo should need no explanation. David Allen Grier is a broadway vet, and Elijah Kelley is a great singer and actor (you’ve seen him singing in that new Hairspray movie. Uzo Aduba actually has done Broadway before and she sings opera as well Uzo Aduba Sings Opera on ‘The View’.

    If you watched Glee, then you already know Amber Riley. And rouding out the cast…Common, Queen Latifah, Mary J Blige and of course Stephanie Mills.

  141. 141.

    trollhattan

    @ksmiami:
    Can you distill that to a tshirt? Because I’d so wear it.

    Actual kneejerk Republican voters I know don’t even acknowledge the populist crap, they’re strictly “good for the economy; good for smaller government” and that represents the shutting of their political line of inquiry, circa R. Reagan (even those who don’t even remember those days).

  142. 142.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s an “adventure travel” company that supplies the bikes, wranglers and a chase truck to carry all their gear to the next night’s lodgings. Bro’ shows up with helmet, riding gear and sweet, sweet greenbacks.

  146. 146.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    I am old and unhip, so I have to admit NeYo is one of those names I see on the internet. David Allen Grier and Queen Latifah are my generation, though. And, of course, we already know from “Chicago” that the Queen can sing Broadway.

    I was surprised to see Uzo Aduba on the list because I didn’t know she was a singer, but a lot of people were surprised before “Frozen” that Kristen Bell could sing, so I’ll be interested to hear her.

  147. 147.

    Mike J

    @sparrow: I don’t really care if you GYOFB, just don’t whine. If this blog doesn’t have your preferred slant, you can go any number of places that do.

  148. 148.

    PurpleGirl

    @schrodinger’s cat: No, I haven’t but I’ll look into going there. I like that Indian food isn’t always spicy hot but it is spicy flavorfull. Also that in Indian restaurants you can balance out spicy foods with cool and neutral foods. Love Indian breads.

  157. 157.

    schrodinger's cat

    @PurpleGirl: Its walking distance from the Jackson Heights subway stop. Haven’t been there in a while, but they have a great selection and their store brand is pretty good too.

    Yes on Indian breads, they are to die for and hardest to recreate at home.

  159. 159.

    ksmiami

    @trollhattan: the nice way – If you want to live like a Republican, vote for A Democrat and my preference – GOP=DEATH. The latter is more direct though lacking in subtlety

  160. 160.

    Corner Stone

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Chile and Argentina are safe.

    The fugue you say. I sincerely dispute Argentina is safe for someone with delicious greenbacks to spend.

  161. 161.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @lamh36:

    Dang! I’m sure that a million producers and casting directors have told Uzo to “do something” about her teeth, but serious singers refuse to do that because they’re afraid it might mess with their voice. That’s why Freddy Mercury never got his teeth or jaw operated on.

  162. 162.

    lamh36

    ‘I damn sure ain’t going to class’: Black students terrified by racist backlash on Missouri campus

    …Another student took to Facebook to voice feelings of being abandoned by the university.

    “I damn sure ain’t going to class today,” the student wrote Wednesday morning. “Police didn’t care admin weren’t trying to cancel class for our collective safety. Mizzou as a whole acted like it didn’t care bout mine or my brothers and sisters lives.”

  163. 163.

    jl

    @Corner Stone:

    ” What is the actual point of having 12 debates? More free media as MM posited? Bullshit. ”

    Why is free media BS?
    It doesn’t make you nervous that the GOP can get up on national TV with millions of viewers and spout nonsense and lies for three hours with no fact checking at all, followed by breathless coverage the next day?

  164. 164.

    PurpleGirl

    @ThresherK: TY. The housewarming party starts at 5 pm on Sunday. Cassie now lives in Putnam and holds adoption events at the Petco in Dayville. I met her initially when I helped her last year at a regional adoption expo in Hartford. I know there are shelters and rescues in NYC but I’ve gotten involved with Cassie through the kitten cam.

  166. 166.

    Corner Stone

    @jl:

    Why is free media BS?
    It doesn’t make you nervous that the GOP can get up on national TV with millions of viewers and spout nonsense and lies with no fact checking at all?

    I think your second sentence there is at the heart of why it’s BS for Democrats. Democratic candidates do not get “free media”. They get punishment/scandal/harangue/harassment.
    Republicans get a sense of wonderment in their free media.

  167. 167.

    lamh36

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): I’m glad she didn’t. I have a gap myself so when I see someone who embraces it, I love it.

    And in some parts of African countries, a gap between the front teeth is considered attractive. I admit, I have been told by more than 1 African hairdresser that my gap was cute, but they may have been trying to get a good tip…lol

  173. 173.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    Middle of Kansas. Even up here I can smell the Brownbackian dystopia. Perhaps I need another drink.

  174. 174.

    Origuy

    @Denali:

    Balloon Juicers will look on all this with opprobrium.

    I have a chance to buy a share in a Bolivian opprobrium mine. Do you think it’s a good investment?

  178. 178.

    Corner Stone

    @Origuy:

    I have a chance to buy a share in a Bolivian opprobrium mine. Do you think it’s a good investment?

    I have heard that Bolivian mine owners can be quite obstreperous.

  182. 182.

    Corner Stone

    Someone let me know in 15 or 20 minutes when Maddow is done beating the dead horse that her lead-in rode in on. Until then, old Briscoe/Curtis Law & Order reruns!

  184. 184.

    Gwangung

    @jl: actually, you rapidly get to the point of diminishing returns; after s certain point, people tune out, even if they don’t watch directly.

    You can debate where that point is; putting it at six is quite defensible.

  186. 186.

    Snarkworth

    Open thread? Ok. Just got back from five days in NYC with a bunch of friends from high school, most of whom I hadn’t seen in [mumble mumble] years. Let me just say that the hilarity was pee-your-pants funny, which isn’t hard at our age.

  189. 189.

    Satby

    @Iowa Old Lady: Stay safe! I just told the girls about what to do if they hear sirens or get a weather alert on their cell phones. So much stuff we take for granted that isn’t common knowledge!

  191. 191.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Corner Stone:

    Is Curtis the actor Jesse something—black guy with goatee? They were the best.

    If I could get some L&O up in here it would be like a comfortable evening at home. Except I’m wearing pants. And no housecat sideboard.

    But I’m drinking the house’s gin vodka, so there’s that.

  193. 193.

    Mike J

    @lamh36:

    Prince Is Going on a Piano Tour in Europe

    The train is a lot more comfortable. Although I’m sure he’ll be traveling on a grand, not an upright like I tried.

  194. 194.

    Shana

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): OT, but you probably missed my comment in a prior thread where you referenced Black Shorts: You love Hamilton and PG Wodehouse and have to be my new best friend. I missed the Wodehouse Society’s convention in Seattle a couple of weeks ago because I threw my back out (it’s better now). First one I’ve missed in almost 20 years. 2017 convention is in DC. I’ll be helping put it together since that’s my local group of the Society.

  197. 197.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    Okay, crossed into Colorado. Somehow the piped-in, recirculated air seems fresher. If I could stream video—which I cannot, because United says that is right out—I would subject you to John Denver’s “Rocky Mountain High.” Subject yourselves.

  200. 200.

    jl

    @efgoldman:

    “The more early debates, the better for us, because every single one of the klowns is exposed as stupid, krazy and/or totally unfit for office.”

    I hope you’re right. I’ll watch the Saturday Dem debate, and will watch to compare media reaction and coverage to whatever happened last night.I didn’t watch it, but from dipping into stories and clips today, it was three hours (counting the kiddies) of lies, BS and fantasy, and I don’t see any of it being called out in media stories. If I missed any push back on the mass quantities of untrue statements in the GOP circus, let me know.

  203. 203.

    Corner Stone

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    it would be like a comfortable evening at home. Except I’m wearing pants.

    ***Shutters***
    Rey Curtis = Benjamin Bratt, not Det Ed Green = Jesse L. Martin
    And I also sometimes just put L&O or L&O Criminal Intent on to zone out as well. Can’t watch L&O SVU even though Mariska totes does it for me.

  205. 205.

    Corner Stone

    @jl:

    it was three hours (counting the kiddies) of lies, BS and fantasy, and I don’t see any of it being called out in media stories.

    And there is absolutely zero, zilch, nada, nothing, nope that any Democratic candidate could say in a debate that would put even the tiniest ball peen hammer ding in the BS the Repub candidates are spewing. Not even if they had 48 debates.

  206. 206.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Baud:

    I cannot touch it, because the United wi-fi agreement mentions crushing testicles if streaming breaks out. But you others, listen to it and say a prayer for L.B.

  208. 208.

    Suzanne

    I got my building design submitted to the City on Tuesday morning. I am about to have my eleventh day in a row at work. I am tired. I need caffeine.

  210. 210.

    Mnemosyne (tablet)

    @Shana:

    Okey-dokey! I also love Buster Keaton, if that helps seal the deal — there seems to be a certain overlap between Wodehouse and Keaton fandom for some reason. But I never go to conventions (except knitting ones), because I’m asocial and don’t travel well. :-(

    My AP English teacher will always live in the annals of sainthood because he gave us a list of authors we could do a project on and Wodehouse was prominent among them, so that’s where I first discovered him. Wooster is my favorite, but I love the Mulliner stories, too.

  211. 211.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Corner Stone:

    Agreed on Mariska, also agreed can no longer watch SVU. Love Crim Intent. I often have to turn around and actively watch.

    Rey’s a bit of a tight-ass. Green and Briscoe were the best partnership.

  212. 212.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Corner Stone: Exactly. Debates have their purpose and think six is enough. Events like last Friday’s gig with Maddow or town halls that get the Dem candidates out in front of primary voters with as little filter as possible are a good thing. Let the GOP have its thousand points of derp. Don’t try to match it.

  213. 213.

    Corner Stone

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): Curtis is a ridiculous tight-ass. His character would have never survived making it through OCCB. Not with his BS.
    The way he punished guys who had cheated on their SO’s because his wife was leaving him for same made me want to neck punch that asshole.

  216. 216.

    Corner Stone

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    Green and Briscoe were the best partnership.

    Sorry but it’s Logan & Briscoe. Logan, even though he was a hothead, knew where to bend the rules just like OG Briscoe did. I hated how Logan mellowed out on L&O Crim Intent when he was partnered with redhead Profacci.

  224. 224.

    Corner Stone

    @Baud:

    Usually it’s just a few seconds, but I’ve seen the site down for over 5 minutes.

    About 17 times a day, randomly.

  231. 231.

    Corner Stone

    @Omnes Omnibus: Bond Girl Carey Lowell vs under the radar lesbian Rohm?
    No fucking contest. That odd eyed top shelf endowed Carey Lowell is the bomb diggity.
    There is no debate here. Hennessy was weak sauce and was sleeping with ADA McCoy.

  232. 232.

    ThresherK

    @PurpleGirl: And in Chicago, and also wasn’t he in the original 42nd Street on the stage?

    (Yes, I’m showing myself, to all the kids out there who never knew a world in which 42nd Street was only a movie.)

  239. 239.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @divF:

    Just about to hit the Four Corners.

    I had the flight attendant cut me off and bring me a glass of ice for my Perrier Citron.

  240. 240.

    PurpleGirl

    @efgoldman: Part of that is Wolfe not wanting to give rerun residuals to Michael Moriarity. They had a big fight — over what I don’t remember — but Moriarity left the show and that’s when the Jack McCoy character was developed.

  242. 242.

    Corner Stone

    @PurpleGirl:

    Part of that is Wolfe not wanting to give rerun residuals to Michael Moriarity

    ADA Stone was a serious hard ass. That dude did not waver.

    ETA, I always liked it when someone would talk shit to him and he would casually look down and flick his fingers in their direction, then call them “sir” when he told them what was going to happen.

  243. 243.

    Gin & Tonic

    @efgoldman: First season, guy with the lovely name of George Dzundza, partnered with Logan. Pre-Orbach. You’ll never see those in syndication; don’t know why.

  245. 245.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    The closest I’ve seen is the (season-ending) cliffhanger where that guy gets killed and Logan goes Archer finding his killer.

  249. 249.

    Omnes Omnibus

    God damn it! I have a brief storm related power outage which causes my computer to say that it needs to check disks for damage. I get through that and come back here to participate in the L&O “best of” discussion and the site starts its mini-crashes. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

  253. 253.

    normal liberal

    @schrodinger’s cat: I seem to recall that Moriarity turned out to be some brand of winger when Obama took office. And Angie Harmon (thanks to Purple Girl for reminding of the Texas chick’s name) got to share episodes with the recently deceased Fred Thompson, which was more reinforcement than either of them deserved.
    Briscoe and Green rule.

  256. 256.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Suzanne:

    I liked Elisabeth Röhm too.

    About to hit Vegas. I may disappear. Thanks to all for making the hours fly.

    ETA: No, maybe I’ll find a wi-fi hot spot and sit around the airport for a couple hours while we finish this thread.

  258. 258.

    Brandon

    @Keith G: Well it could certainly be me, I don’t know. But my reading is that it seems there is an unnecessary fight being picked with an ex post justification through claiming sexism. It’s just weird and certainly turns me off.

    @sparrow: If that’s the case, then I agree. It’s a great idea actually. There is no doubt in my mind that Hillary will win the nomination, but I think this blog could provide an excellent forum for supporters of all the candidates to express themselves without unnecessary acrimony. Maybe except Lincoln Chafee, is he even still running?

    Since I get all my primary news from this blog, I have no idea what is really going on. But, I’ve seen a couple posts by mistermix pointing to potential missed opportunities by the DNC regarding the number of debates. I think he’s right. The more free airtime that Democrats can get to get their message out to the public the better. Right now the public debate is basically being defined by Republicans and I suspect through that lens the parameters of what is considered acceptable opinion or even politically moderate are being defined without Democratic input. My belief is that the DNC is not really interested in a contested primary, which is fine. But they must understand the risks and I have a suspicion that they are not thinking too much about the general aside from reducing the distance of the “pivot”. At least I understand the Clinton campaign has a volunteer network set up, but without a real primary (or even just matching the Republicans in profile through debates) may come at a cost of reducing the opportunity to energize the rank-and-file and small donors. I hate to say it, but I sense a presumption of arrogance that the Obama coalition will come out and repeat 2008 and 2012. I am not so sure that will work without Obama or without at least doing something to energize Obama voters to be active. I guess we’ll know for sure in a year.

  259. 259.

    Suzanne

    So. A week and a half ago, I shaved a piece of skin off my ankle. It bled like a mofo, but it stopped, and I have been keeping it clean and bandaged. It doesn’t look infected, but it is still seeping a little, and it hasn’t scabbed over. I am wondering if it’s a problem. I wish we had photo comments so I could get opinions.

  260. 260.

    PurpleGirl

    @normal liberal: One day I was on the bus going to work and as the bus turned onto Park Avenue at 39th St. who do I see outside the window — Orbach and Martin during a break in filming. Yup, I think to myself, that Jesse L. Martin is a good looking man.

    One of the great things about BJ is that we can have these tangential threads about who knows what.

  261. 261.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Suzanne:

    I wish we had photo comments so I could get opinions.

    Oh fuck, no.

    @Brandon: If Sanders has what it takes, it will be a contested primary. I think the fact that the most formidable opponent Obama faced in 2008 was HRC in the primary was good for him in the general. If he could beat her, he could beat anyone. I would be happy to see Sanders take either role – the sharpener or the one who is sharpened. I’ll admit that at this point HRC is my choice: nevertheless, I am open to persuasion.

  265. 265.

    Anne Laurie

    @Suzanne: If it hasn’t scabbed up after a week, I’d go show it to an urgent-care doc-in-the-box, at least. Or does your health-care plan have one of those on-call nurse phone lines, where you could ask her?

    Lotsa medications — not just the ones with the warnings on the label — interfere with either blood coagulation or infection fighting, and when problems like that show up it’s liable to be in the feet (because they’re furthest from the core pump).

  266. 266.

    PurpleGirl

    @Suzanne: Have you used any kind of antibiotic cream on it? Keeping it clean and covered is good but you also need to add some healing cream. I’ve used Bacitracin and one doctor at the clinic I go to gave me a partial tube of Mupirocin. Bacitracin is available in most drug stores; I haven’t seen Mupricin in a drug store so I don’t know if that one is by prescription.

    ETA: I have a ulcer on my ankle which was taking forever to heal. The creams helped.

  267. 267.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, don’t be a douche.

    @Anne Laurie: Part of the problem is that I was weightlifting last Saturday, and I didn’t notice that my barbell was rolling a bit until it rolled into my ankle and I was deeply unhappy. Also, I realized that I’ve been keeping it so tightly covered that it hasn’t gotten any air at it, so I am letting it air out right now. I might go see a doc on Friday. I probably should have gotten stitches, but too late.

  269. 269.

    normal liberal

    @PurpleGirl:
    So much envy. In my little burg we get the occasional sighting of a lost Steppenwolf actor in a less then salubrious bar. (Well, some people do, not me so much.)
    For Jesse L. Martin I would crawl every pub in town. Oddly, for late-90s Sam Waterston, too.

  270. 270.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Suzanne: It will likely scab over better if you don’t bandage it.

    In olden days, and still today, there’s a lot of advice to keep wounds moist. But I think it’s more complicated these days.

    I’m not a physician, so take the stuff below with a grain of salt.

    I heard from my FIL’s pulmonologist that most people these days are “colonized” with MRSA and similar infections. The stuff lives on our skin. We don’t normally get infected because our immune system fights it off, etc. But bandages can make inviting homes for bacteria and they can easily get infected when kept most too long, etc.

    If you are keeping it bandaged, make sure you change the bandage regularly and use an antibiotic ointment or similar with it.

    If it doesn’t smell right, hurts more than before, or has ugly drainage, get it looked at by a physician.

    HTH a little. Good luck.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  271. 271.

    TriassicSands

    One of the most maddening claims commonly heard these days is that there is “no difference” between the two major parties. Yeah, both parties suck, but their level of sucking is like night and day. With that in mind, I think the same can be said, though to a much lesser degree, about the Republican candidates for president.

    Yeah, they all suck. And on many issues, if there is a difference, it’s only between just how bad one is compared with another. But on some issues there might well be huge differences between individual candidates. Foreign policy. The policies of Rand Paul would be likely to differ greatly from the other more mainstream Republican candidates (and lefties might well like his foreign policy more, assuming his incompetence didn’t result in total disaster, which is a possibility). On immigration, they all suck, but it seems likely that undocumented immigrants might fare a lot better under Rubio or Bush than they would under Cruz or Trump. It’s probably fair to assume that everyone would be better off under a Kasich presidency than under a Carson administration, and that’s assuming Carson could even get it together to form an administration.

    I consider every election now one between lesser evils. The evil on the Democratic side may be generally significant or isolated in certain wrong-headed policies, for example Obama’s human rights record or his continuation, though de-escalation, of the war on drugs. (No presidency is without problems; even FDR has to answer for his court packing and the internment of Japanese Americans.) On the other side, I see the apocalypse, especially if the GOP also controls both houses of Congress. I think it is fair to say we’d survive a Rubio or Kasich presidency, though there would be a lot of collateral damage, and the recovery could take years or even decades. But we might not survive a Trump or Carson presidency without suffering lasting, catastrophic damage. Both are megalomaniacs; both are utterly unqualified to be president; and both would threaten disaster in a number of areas. Carson, possibly across the board. I can’t even begin to imagine the trouble Trump would cause in foreign policy. The State Department would become the Department of Thuggery and Insults. The largest department might be the newly created Department of Wall Building.

    But the real prize is Carson. It’s hard to imagine what he could do right. He’s profoundly ignorant, uninterested in learning, and even in health care, where one might suppose he would know something, he’s astoundingly uninformed. It’s hard not to use superlatives and extremes with Carson, who is easily one of the very worst candidates for president in American history. If he were elected, our best hope would be if he slept through all four years and then stumbled off to spend his time discussing young earth creationism with some of his fellow “scientists.”

    (No, I’m not ignoring Cruz, who would run an entirely different, but equally disastrous administration.)

  275. 275.

    Suzanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: Geez. If you keep up with shit like that, I’ll have to start talking about my parents in every comment and ending them all with “Just saying”, JUST TO PISS YOU OFF.

  276. 276.

    Brandon

    @Omnes Omnibus: While that makes sense, the deck is too stacked against him. In some other comments here someone pointed out that Sanders had a much better voting record with the League of Conservation Voters and yet they just endorsed Clinton. Go figure. The game is rigged and I think that is pretty clear. I am not sore about it, it is their prerogative. And my stance probably makes sense because I am not a Sanders supporter. My original point is that I hope the party and Clinton’s know what they are doing and understand the risks of basically gaming this for Hillary Clinton, because things like voter engagement and enthusiasm does matter a lot. The other point I didn’t make, but I think is equally important is that the party is basically operating on a “next in line”/”my turn” premise for this election and that has not worked for Presidential elections since HW Bush since he was Veep. Mondale, Gore, Dole, McCain and Romney all had “their turn” and lost (I’m not sure Kerry counts). In fact, if I recall correctly, one of the messages from the 2008 campaign was that this one was Hillary Clinton’s turn and that Obama should wait. I could also point to countless state level elections in my area where this same premise has faltered badly for Democrats and yet they seem to keep doing it anyway.

    I won’t be voting in the primary, unless there are local measures to vote on. But I will vote in the general. I am willing to withhold judgement that they will get it right this time. But so far I don’t necessarily agree with the approach taken. We’ll see.

  278. 278.

    TriassicSands

    @Brandon:

    Among professional politicians the “next in line” approach is probably very popular. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of them would prefer to stick to that path even when it means defeat, because to deviate is to frustrate the aspirations of professional pols who expect payback for long service. Putting the party first (or, heaven forbid, the country) may be a foreign concept to the pros. It’s really just another name for seniority, which is a powerful force in employment. There are good reasons for that, but it shouldn’t be operative in presidential politics. The outcome is too important. Part of the problem this year is that the Democrats don’t have a deep pool of candidates. Bernie’s a wonderful guy with great politics, but he’s hard to imagine winning the nomination for all the superficial reasons that color modern elective politics. I can think of more good reasons why Clinton should not be the nominee than I can good reasons why someone else who is running should be. Bernie Sanders is an easy case for me — he has much better politics than Clinton, and is much more dependable ideologically. It’s hard sometimes to tell if my feelings about the latter aren’t because of Bill and his endless triangulating. Is HRC as flexible (to use an unloaded word) as Bill was? Will it even matter with today’s Republicans? To make deals with today’s mob of sociopaths will require Clinton to sell out the Democratic Party almost completely. Is there anyone who believes she is less likely to do that than Sanders? It may not be fair to tar HRC with the sins of her husband, but that may be part of the price she pays for getting the advantages that have come from being his wife and the former First Lady.

    I hate to say it, but my gut feels like Clinton will lose, especially if the GOP nominates Rubio. Superficial things are just too important to too many voters. And her long resume is as likely to hurt her as help in today’s political climate. I could survive a Clinton presidency, though I’d rather not, and I’d be ecstatic that we finally elected a woman to be our president. (Because whether I like her or not, she is qualified, which means she’s not a mere token. I wouldn’t feel that way about a Fiorina presidency, because not only is she not qualified, her politics are repugnant.)

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