Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Bark louder, little dog.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

You cannot shame the shameless.

A Senator Walker would be an insult to the state and the nation.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

I was promised a recession.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

The words do not have to be perfect.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2016 / Just What We Needed This Primary

Just What We Needed This Primary

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And let the conspiracy theories begin:

Bernie Sanders won one more delegate in Colorado than first projected after the Colorado Democratic Party admitted this week that it misreported the March 1 caucus results from 10 precinct locations.

The party discovered the discrepancy a week after the caucus but did not correct the public record.

Hillary Clinton’s campaign discussed the error with state party officials last week, but the Sanders campaign apparently didn’t realize the issue until being informed Monday evening by The Denver Post.

The mistake is a minor shift with major implications. The new projection now shows the Vermont senator winning 39 delegates in Colorado, compared to 27 for Clinton.

Even if Clinton wins all 12 superdelegates in the state, Sanders can finish no worse than a split decision. The new count contrasts with prior projections from The Post, Bloomberg Politics and The Associated Press that indicated Clinton would probably win the majority of the 78 delegates in Colorado because of her support from party leaders with superdelegate status.

If Sanders lands one Colorado superdelegate — two are still undecided and others are facing significant pressure — he could win the state’s delegation.

Fer fuck’s sake.

Reader Interactions

238Comments

  2. 2.

    Zinsky

    “And let the conspiracy theories begin…”
    –John Cole

    I think Sasquatch did it and escaped to the Loch Ness monster’s secret lair, in a UFO piloted by Elvis. Just sayin’….

  4. 4.

    El Tiburon

    IDK about conspiracy theories, but safe to say the entire process (in both parties) is total clusterfudge?

    What’s up with that?

  5. 5.

    kindness

    I’ve had to stay out of the comments over at Crooks & Liars. They are total Bernie Bros.

    I like Bernie so why do I loathe BernieBros so much? Because they act just like smug TeaHaddists.

  6. 6.

    inventor

    @Baud:

    One delegate has “major implications”?

    It’s freekin’ yuuuuge! Only a Wall Street shill could possible think otherwise.

  8. 8.

    TaMara (HFG)

    Colorado was such a cluster-fuck that people were turned away from caucus locations and those who stayed but couldn’t get inside went uncounted. The results are anything but cloudy in all regards.

  11. 11.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    So… that delegate negates the rest of Clinton’s 200+ lead in pledged (non-super) delegates, and her 2.3 million vote lead? This is some confusing math.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    I would like someone to explain why Dems can’t do vote by mail. Or at least a simple voting system in place of these convoluted caucus procedures. A 3×5 card in a shoe box would seem to be an improvement.

  13. 13.

    Mnemosyne

    So, for those following my tempest in a teapot, the biopsy is done and I’m waiting for them to let me go so I can get some In N Out. My lymph nodes look clear on the sonogram, so the worst-case scenario has been mostly ruled out. Phew!

    They offered to let me play the “Hamilton” cast album, but I went with “Guardians of the Galaxy” instead. I didn’t want any inappropriate crying during my procedure.

  17. 17.

    Jade

    John, you are very fair and reasonable. However, this is minor compared to the first person reports about the cheating in Iowa, NV, and Hawaii.

    The Clintons will win by any means necessary. That is why people poll her as untruthful and dishonest at such a high rate.

  20. 20.

    guachi

    Clinton is so untruthful, she pointed out the error just to cover up how untruthful she is!

    Also, I think about 30 years of tax returns have been released by all the candidates remaining. And Clinton has all 30. That’s how shady she is!

  23. 23.

    Baud

    If all the superdelegates had supported Hillary in 2008, would that have given her the nomination? I’m trying to understand if the likely outcome this year would be unprecedented.

  24. 24.

    Tim C.

    Nothing this time around matches the pie fights over Florida and Michigan’s delegates in 2008.

  27. 27.

    Cacti

    Speaking of the Bernfeeler campaign…

    Jane said she hasn’t been able to get Bernie’s tax returns because she does them on TurboTax.

    You can download prior returns from TT instantly and have them available in the amount of time it takes the printer to spit them out.

    Why is the transparency candidate lying and obfuscating about his personal finances?

  34. 34.

    scav

    Goody! More Blah Blah as nature clearly abhors a vacuum on the 24/7 channels. Vacuousness expands to fill the void.

  36. 36.

    Elie

    @Cacti:

    And he is the one throwing shade on Hillary… Where ARE those tax returns? (You were kidding about the Turbo Tax, right?) I just don’t buy anything like that and think its very interesting given his lambasting of Hillary to give copies of her speeches…

  37. 37.

    tastytone

    @Jade:

    The Clintons will win by any means necessary. That is why people poll her as untruthful and dishonest at such a high rate.

    LOL…Meanwhile, at Bernie’s one on one with the Pope that the Pope totally invited him to personally…

  38. 38.

    hedgehog the occasional commenter

    Gah. Reminds me not to watch the news tonight (especially the local Denver news). Already got a cold and feel like crap. Some hot and sour soup and baseball sound just the thing. And second TaMara’s comment on the caucuses being a cluster. (saves rant for later)

  39. 39.

    Felonius Monk

    @Baud: When the virtual votes are counted, you will be the virtual winner and standing upon the threshold of being the virtual President of virtually everyone.

  40. 40.

    Cacti

    @Elie:

    (You were kidding about the Turbo Tax, right?)

    No, that’s what she really said on MSNBC.

    Anyone who’s used TT before had to be thinking, “huh?”.

  41. 41.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: the two worst case scenarios I’ve seen speculated on are: a lack of charitable donations or some embarrassing investments. I can see the latter, Bernie having no interest and Jane being less than pure about her brother-in-law telling her she can’t lose with this Monsanto stock, but neither seems like that big a deal. The people who would burn Bern in effigy over something like that could easily be persuaded that Hillary hacked their Schwab account and bought that stock with money Lloyd Blankfein gave her. The former… meh. I don’t know what their personal financial obligations are.

  43. 43.

    Elie

    @Jade:

    Well I wanna see more about where those returns are and also who ‘ol Bernie is beholden to…
    Add to that, he is a freeloader, trying to use the infrastructure of the Democrats without offering any help in the downticket races. He is no more than a fraud —

  46. 46.

    catclub

    @Cacti: If true, anyone who does their taxes on turbo tax has nothing of interest to hide.

    You can bet that Trump and Romney do NOT do their taxes on TT.

  47. 47.

    jl

    Didn’t have time to read the link carefully, but I don’t see one word about charges of conspiracy in the story, and the Sanders campaign hack offered matter-of-fact and civil observations.

    Is Cole spending time fuming about random trouble that isn’t happening in the primary?
    That just couldn’t be.

  48. 48.

    Elie

    @Cacti:

    They’re working pretty hard to avoid the release of this stuff.. Maybe Jade knows what’s in them…. Seems weird that its worth all the effort to avoid given their purity hysteria about Hillary. I personally would not have given a shit, but after all the nasty throw down, yeah, I wanna see them…

  50. 50.

    Cacti

    @catclub:

    If true, anyone who does their taxes on turbo tax has nothing of interest to hide.

    Which makes the cagey behavior about them seem extra strange.

  52. 52.

    Keith P.

    I’m officially tired of Bernie Sanders. At first, he was this pseudo Larry David caricature; now he’s angry old man (one of my sworn enemies).
    On the other side, I am absolutely LOVING the panic on the GOP among all those people who hopped on the Trump bandwagon juuuust a little early. Now they have to deal with the strong likelihood that not only is he going to lose (and lose in a most self-embarrassing fashion), but he’s going to lose to Lyin’ Ted Cruz, who is right now going all over the air just gloating all over Donald. It’s glorious.

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: I suspect Mrs Sanders, like Mr Sanders, never expected things to go this far and she’s having trouble adapting to the loss of privacy. I would sympathize if she weren’t married to such a self-righteous asshole* of a candidate who is holding HRC to a “prove you did nothing wrong” standard. Also, if she thinks this is an invasion of her privacy, she better hope more fervently than I do that HRC puts this away fast.

    *Ken Thomas ‏@ KThomasDC 20h20 hours ago
    By my count, Sanders invoked Clinton’s name 9 times over 13 mins in Buffalo on super PACs, Goldman Sachs, trade, fracking & Iraq.

  54. 54.

    chopper

    @Baud:

    it’s generally caucuses. they’re always bodge jobs.

    really we should have all primaries but then guys like sanders wouldn’t last a month.

  55. 55.

    Elie

    @Baud:

    I have a hard time imagining that they contain something shocking.

    I don’t. I think Bernie is much less pure than he would like his believers to know. Otherwise, what is the big deal? And to me, its pretty silly to be Senator who might have more complex finances and relationships to put their returns on something like that… but then, what do I know. Usually when people submit their returns, they keep some sort of copy for themselves. I find that odd also. Again, if it is not an issue, release them and be done with it…. nah nah nah, no more lame excuses.

  56. 56.

    Miss Bianca

    Well, great…this is going to make the state delegates convention *very* interesting. *groan*
    Even *more* “interesting” than it was going to be anyway, for reasons I’d probably better not talk about here.
    @Mnemosyne: Good news!

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, my concern with the possibility of a late Bernie surge has been that he hasn’t been put through the normal rigor of the primary. With Obama and Clinton in 08, they were both put through the paces.

  58. 58.

    patroclus

    @jl: JC is just launching the daily Sanders-Clinton argument thread – what happened in Colorado doesn’t really matter other than as a hook to get us going.

    Personally, I think the anti-Bernie stuff here is getting a little out of hand. All of his supporters are not “bros;” the tax returns almost certainly will be released and will have nothing of significance in them; he’s likely to stick to the issues in Thursday’s debate; he’s likely to endorse Hillary when all of this is over. He’s been a good Senator and he’ll continue to be one. I like him and I want his supporters to support the Dem nominee so I don’t see the point in insulting them constantly. I didn’t vote for him and my state (Illinois) is not in the South, but I think he’s been a net positive this primary season.

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Oh, just fuck me. One fucking delegate. One. And don’t tell me about ‘repercussions’. You know what else has repercussions? My farts. Just ask my wife, she’ll tell you all about it.

  66. 66.

    patroclus

    @Keith P.: I think Trump’s gonna get to 1237 fairly easily. The media loves to talk about a contested convention, but if he sweeps New York and Pennsylvania (not to mention Maryland, Connecticut, Delaware and then, later, New Jersey), which I think he will, the path really won’t be all that difficult. Cruz is anathema in the Middle Atlantic states and Kasich is a 29-times loser with virtually no traction.

  67. 67.

    Elie

    @patroclus:

    But then, why have your wife go on a talk show to give another excuse (and not a good one) — all that after just laying the wood to Hillary about her “corruption” and really not walking back much about he being unqualified? I disagree that he has done much except hijack the Democratic Party primary apparatus and no, he actually hasn’t done much in the senate except be a gadfly. Have you listened to his speeches in the last few days? Seriously. I was pretty un emotional about this guy until the last two weeks. Maybe his supporters should have been a little more thoughtful about offending Hillary’s —

  69. 69.

    Hal

    Why not just do away with caucuses all together? How about proportional primaries in each state and have every states primary on the same day in late winter/early spring. Hold the convention 30 days later. Make two national holidays, one for primaries and one for the general election. Hell, dump the midterms and have house and Senate up for re-election with the president. Just get it all over with in one day.

  70. 70.

    Elie

    @catclub:

    That could have been out weeks ago and everyone would be over it. Instead, this just causes more interest — all the while he is ridding Hillary…. Seems like he has to square that up….

  71. 71.

    patroclus

    @Baud: My best guess would be that they just haven’t gotten around to them yet, like lots of other Americans. Trump hasn’t released his and I think there’ll be plenty of significant items in those tax returns.

  72. 72.

    Gin & Tonic

    @TaMara (HFG):

    Definitely worth an IN and Out reward.

    Funny, but that phrase makes some people here think of the West coast burger place; it makes me think of Alex from A Clockwork Orange. Led to some confusion when I made a comment here about it a week or two ago.

  73. 73.

    A Ghost To Most

    Must be about time for our daily Two-Minute Hillary Hate drive-by (Jade really didn’t measure up). Any thoughts on today’s contestant(s) ?

  74. 74.

    eemom

    Pro Hillz palate cleanser.

    Joining in congrats to Mnem on the good news! I’m guessing “In and Out” is a west coast eatery that we don’t have here…..but wondering if anyone else remembers ANOTHER referent for “the old in out in out”…. ;)

  79. 79.

    Darkrose

    @Cacti: Okay, I think the whole thing is silly, but wot? I’ve used Turbo Tax for years. The computer I used last year is dead and gone…but I saved the PDF’s and moved them to my new machine. This isn’t rocket science.

  82. 82.

    cokane

    If we’re going to crow about R state legislatures making voter ID rules, which in many cases have a very very marginal effect and other Republican chicanery, then this bs needs to be called out. Thanks for bringing attention to this Cole.

  83. 83.

    Gin & Tonic

    @patroclus: “Haven’t gotten around to” last year’s, or the year before that, or the year before that? It takes five minutes to publish those.

  88. 88.

    Elie

    @Hal:

    I am for proportional primaries in all states with no minimum threshold.

    I am against speeding anything up. We need the long season to test the candidates and examine their character and preparation under sustained pressure. I want them to work to organize their followers and teams in the states. We need to see these guys and gals and what they are made of. A short season might work in Europe, but that would just allow unprepared and sneaky people to evade knowledge about who they really are. I say we run ’em till their tongues hang out and ask them a bunch of questions and put them under the microscope without feeling the least bit sorry about it. It should not be easy to “steer the chariot of the sun” — to be the President of the US. If they want privacy, they should stay home.

  89. 89.

    Darkrose

    @eemom: In and Out Burger is a California burger joint. They used to have bumper stickers that people would inevitable take a pair of scissors to so it read “In and Out urge”.

  93. 93.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    I am so excited. This evening when I pulled my car in the driveway I noticed a Wren with a fat bug in his mouth stick his head in the nesting box by my front door. He flew away and I peeked in an sure enough there is a female in there sitting on eggs. Wrens will build in the most unusual places and I am so glad they chose my nesting box!

  95. 95.

    chopper

    @Gin & Tonic:

    yeah seriously how much work is it to go into TT and print out previous returns and mark off SS numbers with a sharpie? versus going on fucking television to make excuses for not doing it?

    it’s just bush league is what it is.

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    OT, but too funny not to share

    ‏@ emptywheel
    Bob Woodward: “I’ve always been an outsider. I scramble hard to preserve my outsider status, if you will.”

    scramble up on the knee of Colin Powell, Robert Byrd, Donald Regan, Willam Casey (?) ….. to take dictation in return for making them look good in his insidery tomes? Scramble Bob Woodward did.

  98. 98.

    Darkrose

    @Hal: THIS.

    The current system is monumentally stupid. There should not be caucuses, and there is absolutely no reason voters in the states with the highest population should have to wait until the end of the process to make their voices heard while everyone hangs off New Hampshire and Iowa’s respective dicks.

  99. 99.

    jl

    @patroclus: @Betty Cracker:

    OK. I will help Cole out, for I love my fearless leader in a safe man-hug sort of way, I emulate him in all ways, and wish to help.
    Dear John, here is how you start a Hillz/Bernie food fight:

    The Mortimer Zuckerman tabloid rag Daily News did a sad and transparent hack job and Sanders, and a sad transparent puff piece on Hillary Clintion, both of which will sink into oblivion and have no effect on anything.

  100. 100.

    patroclus

    @Elie: Because she’s a very likable down-to-earth surrogate. And, I’m pretty sure Bernie voted for the ACA, Dodd-Frank, the VAWA, Lily Ledbetter, the Card Act, the new budget with $80 billion more in discretionary domestic spending, Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor, all of Obama’s appointees, the Iran deal and a whole bunch more. He’s been at least as good of a Senator as Roland Burris ever was, twenty million times better than Mark Kirk and a whole bunch more. Calm down and look at this with some perspective.

  101. 101.

    Elie

    @Darkrose:

    I truly believe that we need them to do a national process that takes effort, organization and a team. We need to see how they run things and how they think as well as their character and priorities. I want to have a good long look —

  102. 102.

    Miss Bianca

    @Hal: Well, for one thing…primaries are paid for by the states, caucuses are paid for by the state parties. So, in the case of CO, even tho’ the Democrats (and I believe the Republicans as well) would like to switch back to a primary system, one reason that the legislation has failed at the state level is because the state doesn’t want to have to pay for it.

  103. 103.

    Heliopause

    @Baud:

    The one delegate part means little. It’s the Sanders finding out from a newspaper rather than the party part that will upset people.

  105. 105.

    Mandalay

    @Elie:

    Where ARE those tax returns?

    Yep. Even as a Sanders supporter I find his inactivity on this completely indefensible.

  108. 108.

    patroclus

    @Baud: Romney was a candidate who was nominated by a major American political party and was in a general election. Bernie isn’t going to get that far. What was it Paul Ryan said today? Apples and oranges. If Bernie gets nominated, he’ll get vetted big-time. But he won’t. And Hillz looks likely to win New York and Pennsylvania.

  109. 109.

    Elie

    @patroclus:

    I will in time if HIS behavior warrants my calming down. I hear your points about how he has voted but that is not the same as leading legislation. Roland Burris did not run for President and spend all his time playing Mr. Purity while his team looks for ways to upend rules they don’t like — rules that they should have been ready for when they took on the run for President. Frankly, I just find Bernie’s personal style really off putting. I don’t like old men wagging their fingers in my face and screaming. Just from his style, and how he has run his campaign, I do not like him for President – (though obviously I would vote for him in the unlikely event he is the nominee). Can you also tell me, why this guy even refuses to support downticket Democrats? I mean, what is there to like about this guy as a Democrat for such an important office?

  111. 111.

    chopper

    @Heliopause:

    It’s the Sanders finding out from a newspaper rather than the party part that will upset people.

    (rustles paper) okay, lessee here, national news (reads) WHAT THE HELL? JANE! YOU MEAN TO TELL ME I’M NOT MEETING THE GODDAMN POPE?! WHEN THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN??!

  112. 112.

    hedgehog the occasional commenter

    @Miss Bianca: Yeah, I got to thinking about that. mr. hedgehog is headed up to Loveland as well–wonder what he’ll find out.

  114. 114.

    Elie

    @debbie:

    I liked it — gave a much more wholistic view of the man — how he had to manage his own hot temper to be the first black man in the majors — the reality of his life and the life of his wife. It was pretty powerful to me and the photography is just amazing. Anyway, just my two cents…

  116. 116.

    patroclus

    @scav: Good for Kirk! But I already wrote him and told him that if Merrick Garland isn’t on the USSC by the first Monday in October, I’m not voting for him. Period. He (or probably some low-level staffer of his) knows where I stand. And, in Illinois, I’m not alone. This ain’t no Alexi Giannoulius election.

  117. 117.

    Elie

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    That is just wonderful!

    Up here in the NW, the hummingbirds are getting ready to nest… before long dozens of biddies (Rufous and Anna’s) will be at my feeders and I will be cooking up fresh nectar every day…. AHHHH spring!

  118. 118.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: And winning so smoothly. You’ve never had any problems with delegate counts.

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Photos! Videos! We had a mother raccoon and her three offspring in our attic a couple of years ago, which wasn’t as fun as your Wren Mum and babies will be. Enjoy.

  119. 119.

    Elie

    @Baud:

    I frankly don’t care about his returns per se — just that he is not releasing them after being such a purity pony about Hillary.. H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E. I am not a purist, but this just sets wrong with me.

  120. 120.

    raven

    @debbie: I watched an hour and dvr’rd the rest. I think it is excellent. I never realized their were elected communists on the NYC cit council.

  123. 123.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Cacti:

    Why is the transparency candidate lying and obfuscating about his personal finances?

    It will show that he has given very little to charity over the years. It will look bad for a life long socialist, who makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and touts redistribution of income, to be exposed as phony, who’s a greedy miser.

    He likely will never release them – it’s that bad.

    He’s obviously stalling, hoping to get pass New York. But he’s going to lose NY, the only question is will it be by 8 pts or 18 pts. Then he’ll lose Maryland and Pennsylvania. Once this happens interest will melt away and he can get though the next 5 weeks without having to release the returns.

  124. 124.

    patroclus

    @Elie: Well, I’m not going to make his case because I voted for Hillary, but I’m pretty sure that he was highly involved in the most recent update to the GI Bill cause he’s on Veterans Affairs. I agree with you (and Barney Frank). Bernie usually postures at the farthest left-ward end of the political spectrum on virtually every issue (albeit not on guns) and is almost never in the room when compromises are made, because he just doesn’t do that sort of thing. A Jeremy Corbyn of America; which, to me, is not a good sign for a President (although it’s fine for a Senator from Vermont). I also don’t like finger-wagging.

  126. 126.

    Mandalay

    @Elie:

    I don’t like old men wagging their fingers in my face

    I don’t like ANYONE wagging their finger, or pointing, whether it’s on TV or in real life. Doing that face to face is the height of rudeness, and more than a little aggressive.

    Anyone on TV who makes a regular habit of wagging their finger or pointing at the camera – Rachel Maddow, Chris Hayes, Tim Russert, Bill Clinton and Bernie Sanders – should fuck off and die. So far only Russert has done the decent thing, but I remain hopeful that the rest of them will follow his fine example.

  129. 129.

    J R in WV

    @Jade:

    I’m sure Hillary Clinton was personally in Iowa, HI, and where-ever else you mentioned, to personally count out the ballots so that she would win. Personally supervising cheating in every precinct where primary voting has taken place!

    Good Dog, how stupid do these people sound!

    Mrs. Clinton has been accused of every crime on the books, for 30 years, and has never even been indicted, after millions of dollars in investigarion. That equals INNOCENT on all charges and attacks. Hillary is cleaner than any other politician in the country, according to Ken Starr, of all people!

    So Fuq you for sliming the reputation of a woman who has done more for the country than you could if you started working right now. Sub-normal non-thinkers, the lot of you.

  130. 130.

    Monala

    Perhaps related: interesting things are happening at Harvard, where alum Ralph Nader has joined with some conservative alums to push for free tuition, supposedly to make things fairer. Opponents contend that this is a move to eliminate diversity considerations in admissions and give extra advantages to kids whose parents can already afford to pay. Link

  135. 135.

    Chyron HR

    @rikyrah:

    Why is the blog named Balloon Juice?

    Balloons are filled with gas, right? And Juice is a near-homophone for “jews”.

    One of the many disturbingly far-right messages that John Cole sneaks into every post.

  137. 137.

    Elie

    @Jade:

    They are little Jade — what is he afraid of? Oh I get it — rules and procedures are just for others to follow… Mr purity gets to make up his own and then interpret them his way. Please.

  138. 138.

    Mnemosyne

    @Darkrose:

    It’s waiting for me at work, and I’m honestly debating swinging by my office to get it. But it’s kind of out of my way, and it’ll still be there tomorrow.

  139. 139.

    Jade

    @Elie: I hope he drops out of the Dem Caucus. Obamacare really needed his vote. He has been part of the Dem Caucus since he was a rep. He was appointed to committees by dems and was a reliable vote (except for disastrous wars). Now he is not good enough. Good luck taking back the Senate. Better luck getting the votes of us Bernie Bros in the fall if Clinton wins the nom.

  140. 140.

    Mandalay

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    It will show that he has given very little to charity over the years…He likely will never release them – it’s that bad.

    Well he released his 2014 return last year:

    Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)…reported relatively modest income last year: just more than $200,000 on a tax return filed jointly with his wife…

    The money from the book and the television appearance were both donated to charity, Briggs said. Sanders donated another $8,350 to charity last year, Briggs said. On his Vermont tax return, Sanders made a total of $150 in voluntary contributions to support four causes: at-risk children; endangered wildlife; military veterans; and the environment.

    Sanders donated a little over 4% of his gross income in 2014 so I wouldn’t call him a “greedy miser”, but it’s certainly nothing to brag about either.

  141. 141.

    J R in WV

    @Mary G:

    WE always go through Wendy’s after we take the dawgs to the Vet.
    Single, no mustard, no cheese, no bread!
    “Huh?”
    No bread, no onions, raw is OK, it’s for the dawgs.
    “Oh. OK!”

  142. 142.

    Mnemosyne

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s gonna be a couple of days wait for the other kind since I have a very small hole in my boob right now, so we’re going to have to make do with a cheeseburger instead tonight.

  144. 144.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mandalay: he didn’t release his 2014 return. He only let them read a summary. And it didn’t included deductions for charity. WaPo got that from reading a 2015 FEC form, that is completely different from a 2014 tax return.

    but mark my words, in the aggregate, it will show he donated very little to charity during his career in the Senate and Congress.

    eta: moreover, the fact that he let WaPo read a summary last year just proves he’s lying when he says he can’t release his returns cuz it’s too much trouble digging them out of his file cabinet.

  146. 146.

    Kathleen

    @debbie: Yes. I stayed up until 11. I never stay up until 11 on a work night. The President and Michelle Obama are among the interviewees. And Rachel, Jackie Robinson’s wife, is enchanting.

  148. 148.

    chopper

    @efgoldman:

    oh does clinton have ambition for the job. makes me sick. I only vote for people who have no inclination whatsoever to actually get the position they’re campaigning for. that’s why I voted for shrub and that’s why I caucused for Baud.

  149. 149.

    debbie

    @Elie:
    @raven:

    Thanks, I’ll give it a shot, so to speak.

    ETA: Thanks also, Kathleen. I wish it was 4 1-hour segments instead of 2 2-hours. It’s such a commitment.

  150. 150.

    Jeffro

    Is it time for me to pop in with my usual boring plea for “vote in the primary, then move on and live with the results ’cause we have GOP buttz to kick” schtick? Because I have been known to do that, you know.

  152. 152.

    Mandalay

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    he’s lying when he says he can’t release his returns

    I certainly struggle to come up with any satisfactory explanation for his failure to release his returns. And if there is a problem he is only making it worse by delaying.

    And if he quits without ever releasing his returns he is dead to me. Any credibility he had would evaporate.

  154. 154.

    inventor

    Only a BernieBro, could be offended after calling Clinton a criminal.

    Why is Sanders so secretive? What is he hiding? Money from the gun lobby? Compulsive gambling? A heroin habit? Also, what is his wife hiding? Human trafficking? Sex trade?

    These are things that I’ve heard, now that I’ve said them out loud, so when will Sanders answer these charges?!!

    I think Jade is on to something; making up bullshit allegations is fun! I wonder of Fox News is hiring….

  155. 155.

    Jeffro

    @chopper:

    I only vote for people who have no inclination whatsoever to actually get the position they’re campaigning for.

    You too? =)

    It’s funny that only in politics do some people seem to want folks who are ‘outsiders’, who don’t want the job, and then when they’re in, those same people detest that politicians make compromises (gasp) in order to govern this rather diverse-in-every-way country of ours.

    It’s nuts. It’s the exact opposite of what a sane, thoughtful country would look like.

  157. 157.

    J R in WV

    @Elie:

    This evening getting home from running errands, I saw a hawk who flew across the driveway in front of me, and roosted for a moment right beside the driveway, while I drive up under him. Maybe a foot high, or a little less. I’m not a birder so much as I could call out the name of the bird.

    Then as I carried stuff into the house, climbing up the stone steps, I smelled a rich dark aroma. After casting about for what it could be, I saw that it was the Paw-Paw trees, which hang over the steps, and were starting to bloom yesterday. There are white violets, too. Scattered all around.

    And the trees on the hillsides are blooming, and starting to leaf out – there are a hundred colors of green, and lesser amounts of red and orange, on every hillside. So pretty in the spring! The leaves are so fresh and clean this time of year.

  159. 159.

    starscream

    @Jade: you know the vast majority of people that have faced a choice between Bernie and Hillary have picked Hillary, right? Shouldn’t he be courting them just in case he manages to convince superdelegates to ignore them (his only path to the nomination)?

  161. 161.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @chopper:

    My money’s on that he’s in the 1% thanks to Wall Street. The hand waving away and the goal post moving by Sanders supporters will create a standing wave of weaponized bullshit.

  162. 162.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mandalay: you also have to ask why does he hide his assets under his wife’s name.

    When people put their assets in their wife’s name it usually to shield the assets from a law suit. In these cases, a married couple owns a home with joint title and one of the spouses engages in actionable behavior; the spouse will immediately sign a quitclaim deed so the asset is no longer in his or her name, just that of their spouse. That makes one wonder has Sanders ever been sued before – and for what.

    The other reason is under FEC rules you have disclose your assets, but not that of your spouse. So Sanders is likely a millionaire, mainly due to asset appreciation of homes over 25 year period, especially when you own a home in the red hot Washington DC market, yet manufacture a myth of being a regular guy, struggling to get by, by hiding his net wealth in his wife’s name.

    eta: you also have to wonder if he has ever engaged in insider trading. Members of congress were except for insider trading law, until recently. Over the past 25 years did he ever buy and sell stock, through his wife, using confidential and classified information. It’s unfortunate, but these questions arise when you hide assets in your spouse’s name.

  163. 163.

    gwangung

    @starscream:

    Shouldn’t he be courting them just in case he manages to convince superdelegates to ignore them (his only path to the nomination)?

    The superdelegates he’s not raising money to re-elect or elect? (Those aren’t all the superdelegates, but they’re kinda key….).

  164. 164.

    Jeffro

    @Major Major Major Major:

    So it’s… American?

    Geez, did that even need clarifying? Am I back in Civics 101 here?
    lol
    I think Churchill said something like ‘Americans always do the right thing after [we’ve] tried everything else’?
    I like to think we’re about halfway there.
    “America: mostly firing on all cylinders by 2225!”

  166. 166.

    tastytone

    @Jade:

    No one said that the Pope invited him personally

    He just verbally assented to the misinformation on nat’l TV, and then elaborated without pointing out the error. Or is this a mass hallucination?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDu4dCLoE74

    As the Pope’s press-rep pointed out, the Pope did not invite Sanders. “The Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences” in Vatican City is not “The Pope”. Bernie either: 1. knew this and embellished on national TV to attach himself to a popular Pope (a la Kim Davis), or 2. his campaign mis-informed him and made him look incompetent (by letting him do #1).

  167. 167.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Heliopause:

    It’s the Sanders finding out from a newspaper rather than the party part that will upset people.

    Because Sanders has worked so hard to earn the utmost respect from the party, and is entitled to it, without working for it, while using it to slag it, because Bernie.

  169. 169.

    Joel

    Major implications? Are political reporters that desperate? It’s another delegate in a state that Sanders won handily. It’s meaningless. The super delegates are a red herring in a two person race.

  171. 171.

    Joel

    @Keith P.: wait, what? Trump is an odds on favorite to win the nomination, with a best guess at roughly 66% odds to win. If there’s any regrets about endorsing Trump, it’s that these assholes are afraid he’ll actually win.

  173. 173.

    Roger Moore

    @patroclus:

    If Bernie gets nominated, he’ll get vetted big-time.

    As a party member, I would like my party’s nominee to be vetted before being nominated. I don’t want Bernie to win the nomination and then reveal the embarrassing problems with his taxes, personal life, or whatever. I want to know that stuff in time to make an informed choice when voting in my party’s primary, not after it’s too late for the party to do anything about it.

  176. 176.

    Kay

    May, 2008:

    Just how badly is the Democratic Party divided?
    According to the exit polls, half of Clinton’s supporters in Indiana would not vote for Obama in a general election match up with John McCain. A third of Clinton voters said they would pick McCain over Obama, while 17 percent said they would not vote at all. Just 48 percent of Clinton supporters said they would back Obama in November.
    Obama gets even less support from Clinton backers in North Carolina. There, only 45 percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama over McCain. Thirty-eight percent said they would vote for McCain while 12 percent said they would not vote.
    Obama voters appear to be more willing to support Clinton in November. In Indiana, 59 percent of Obama backers said they’d vote for Clinton, and 70 percent of Obama backers in North Carolina said they’d support the New York Democrat.

  177. 177.

    Mandalay

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    you also have to wonder if he has ever engaged in insider trading.

    Meh. I could wonder about that in the same way that I could wonder whether Chris Christie engages in anal sex, and whether Rick Perry is an agent for the PLO, and whether Donald Trump makes quilts in his spare time. Like Bartleby, I prefer not to.

    IOW, let’s just wait and see what is in his returns, if and when he releases them. There is plenty of proven shit against every candidate without wasting time fantasizing over their possible crimes.

  182. 182.

    gwangung

    Sanders and his taxes are an unforced error. Frankly, folks SHOULD look askance at that, given that it’s been a demand in Presidential politics for decades.

    Of course, if he wants to skate by like people like Romney and Trump, then he should be judged by the company he keeps……

  183. 183.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    I remember the set-to in late September 2008 when McCain weaseled out of an appearance on Letterman at the very last minute. It turned out he instead went to dinner with whichever Rothschild was with the PUMAs.

  184. 184.

    Jeffro

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym:

    Americans desperately want there to be no politics in their politics.

    Exactly!

    I think it does stem, somewhat, from being a relatively young (and certainly short-memoried) nation. We’re perpetually shocked, shocked!, that politicians have to pander to us to get elected, and then have to cut deals to actually run the country.

    It makes us quite exploitable, this combination of short memories and being almost purposefully naive. And I don’t think there’s any way to point it out…’cause we’ll just forget it again in 8 or maybe even 4 years…

  186. 186.

    patroclus

    @Roger Moore: That’s a nice theory, but the tax filing deadline is 4/15 and Illinois voted on 3/15. So, I just had to make up my mind to vote for Hillary regardless.

  188. 188.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    John Kasich hoping to emulate another Ohioan’s indirect path to the presidency: James Garfield

    Oh, God. Why won’t he go away?

  189. 189.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I remember Indiana as a hot bed of Puma-ism. Rumored.

    Or I just felt like that’s where they all were.

  190. 190.

    tastytone

    @Mnemosyne:
    True. But I’ve yet to hear Pope F. humble-brag about his Fiat. Maybe when they “meet”, they can swap stories about bottoming-out on large speed bumps.

  191. 191.

    Joel

    Speaking of Trump, herr dickhead will be appearing at Soldiers and Sailors Memorial tomorrow, one block from my place of work. So I’ll get to see the fucking clown parade up close and personal.

  192. 192.

    Baud

    @Kay: I luckily didn’t encounter much PUMAism. It was more like No Labels — something I mostly heard other people complain about.

  193. 193.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Have you done your previous years taxes? If so, I bet you can put your hands on them right away. They can’t seem to, and the question that they seemingly can’t answer is why not?

  194. 194.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    On the upside, Kasich’s refusal to quit ensures his reputation as a laughingstock. I’d like him to stay in as long as possible, if only to hurt the GOP brand in Ohio.

  195. 195.

    Roger Moore

    @gwangung:

    Sanders and his taxes are an unforced error.

    This. The Clintons have been releasing their taxes since before Bill was elected. It’s such a standard thing, Bernie shouldn’t have to struggle to release his back tax returns because he should have been releasing them all along. At the very least, he should have started to get his papers in order the moment he decided to run. For him to have gone this long and still not released them is evidence that he is either incompetent or never intended to release them.

  196. 196.

    chopper

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    do you have a staff you could delegate a five minute job such as ‘go into turbotax and print out the last X years’ returns’ to? cause they do.

  198. 198.

    tastytone

    @Mnemosyne:

    Also–congrats again on your results! Just spent a few weeks waiting on some myself. It’s a sweaty business, waiting.

  200. 200.

    Roger Moore

    @Jeffro:

    I think it does stem, somewhat, from being a relatively young (and certainly short-memoried) nation.

    But that just isn’t true. We may be relatively young as a nation, but we’re very old as a democracy. We have the world’s oldest written Constitution, and we’ve been doing genuine popular democracy for as long as anyone. If any country really ought to know what’s involved in popular government, it would be the US.

  202. 202.

    Roger Moore

    @patroclus:

    That’s a nice theory, but the tax filing deadline is 4/15 and Illinois voted on 3/15.

    Sure, so if there had been something embarrassing in this year’s taxes, that would have been a problem. But how about the previous year’s taxes, and the years before that? There’s no good reason why Bernie hasn’t release his full tax return (as opposed to just his 1040) for 2014 or any year, for that matter. My basic point is that if he wants to be the nominee, he needs to release information necessary to vet him. If he doesn’t it makes me disinclined to vote for him, because it increases the risk that I’m voting for somebody with disqualifying problems that will only be revealed when it’s too late to do anything about them.

  203. 203.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Iowa Old Lady: @the Conster, la Citoyenne: Oh man, Mr IOL keeps everything. EVERYTHING. We have actual paper cancelled checks dating at least 10 years back.

    a couple of weeks ago, I was about to confidently tell a friend that the IRS can only go back seven years so you can throw out everything older, then I realized that this is a thing I heard or read somewhere, not even on the internet, before the internet, so I decided not to give legal advice on that basis.

    @chopper: I agree, even though I pretty much think there’s nothing there.

  204. 204.

    Miss Bianca

    @hedgehog the occasional commenter: btw…did you say your husband was a delegate? Any chance you might come up with him?

    ETA: I just saw your other comment..I don’t think I’d be up for organizing anything big, but if you came up to we could at least have a beer or something sometime during the proceedings!

  206. 206.

    PhoenixRising

    @Roger Moore:

    The Clintons have been releasing their taxes since before Bill was elected.

    In fairness to Bernie and Jane, the Clintons always knew they were headed back out of Arkansas and acted like it. My suspicion is that the O’Meara-Sanders household hadn’t really planned for current facts on the ground when they were filing 1997-2015 taxes. It’s not like VT voters expect their Congressman/Senator to reveal his personal finances.

    So yeah, ambition. Correlates with planning ahead to avoid embarrassing revelations like…My best guess…they hold any assets in her name because when they first married he didn’t want his child support adjusted upward based on marital income. Because he was making jack and needed to keep it looking that way.

    But maybe they’re hiding something much more interesting than an effort to minimize child support…we’ll see.

  207. 207.

    PaulWartenberg2016

    @Kay:

    Who, James Garfield? I’m hoping he comes back: this was a Republican who actually paid off debts early, sought to reform government, and could sign letters with both hands at the same time.

  209. 209.

    different-church-lady

    @jl:

    The Mortimer Zuckerman tabloid rag Daily News did a sad and transparent hack job and Sanders, and a sad transparent puff piece on Hillary Clintion, both of which will sink into oblivion and have no effect on anything.

    Listen, you have to admit that publishing Sanders words verbatim is a vicious attack on Sanders, whereas publishing Clinton’s words verbatim is just a big wet kiss to Clinton.

  210. 210.

    different-church-lady

    @Roger Moore:

    But how about the previous year’s taxes, and the years before that?

    Bernie is so modest he’s never earned enough to pay taxes. Duh.

  211. 211.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @chopper: My guess is there’s nothing worth hiding in Sanders’s returns, but as we see here, his failure to get them out there encourages all kinds of speculation that he doesn’t need as a candidate.

    A friend of mine hates Clinton but says she probably has to vote for her because she’s competent. Sanders makes himself look incompetent with this. As someone says above, it’s an unforced error.

  212. 212.

    VFX Lurker

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Oh man, Mr IOL keeps everything. EVERYTHING. We have actual paper cancelled checks dating at least 10 years back.

    Yowza! Have you two considered investing in a Scansnap? You can shed a lot of paper with a Scansnap + Evernote. Evernote (and Dropbox) both offer two-factor authentication for extra peace of mind regarding security.

  213. 213.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @VFX Lurker: That sounds sensible, but Mr IOL has an emotional attachment to this stuff. Clutter drives me crazy, so every once in a while, I pitch a fit and he lets me throw some of it away.

    We both use Dropbox, which I like not only for backup but also for ease of moving around from device to device.

  215. 215.

    randy khan

    @catclub:

    If true, anyone who does their taxes on turbo tax has nothing of interest to hide.

    You can do some pretty sophisticated things on Turbotax, and some pretty common things that could look bad in certain contexts or include embarrassing information (like investments, real estate income and small business income) actually are pretty easy to do.

  217. 217.

    Miss Bianca

    @divF: Was he ever a fascinating, tragic character. Gave “Destiny of the Republic” a listen last summer – WOW. That’s been one of the most squirm-worthy books I’ve ever plowed thru’!

  218. 218.

    J R in WV

    @Jade:

    The Clinton Foundation is a federally regulated foundation, and you can look at extracts of their financial data on federal web sites. But you probably don’t trust that data, right?

  223. 223.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Tax returns are really easy to archive.

    I print out a copy and put in a file folder with my receipts.

    Then the next year I just pull it out use it as a road map for what receipts to use for current year deductions. This way I don’t have to reinvent the wheel every year and think about what is and isn’t deductible. I mean, you only do it once a year, it’s easy to forget the all rules. Having a list of what you’ve done before is really helpful.

    Plus, there isn’t a person reading this thread who couldn’t pull out their prior returns in 5 minutes. It’s not as if they take up much space.

  226. 226.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: OK, I *am* laughing, even tho’ I kinda don’t want to…
    that said, I do remember a Garfield cartoon where James Garfield made an appearance…and that it was one of the only ones I ever found actually funny…

  228. 228.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud:

    If all the superdelegates had supported Hillary in 2008, would that have given her the nomination?

    Yes, and it was the reason some people that year kept saying she had it in the bag long after this was a silly thing to say. But the superdelegates weren’t going to nullify the winner of the pledged delegates in a close race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

  231. 231.

    Calouste

    @Mandalay: I looked at Sanders’ tax summary for 2014. A rather peculiar thing is that he made $11 in interest and $2 in dividends in 2014. On a $200,000 income that is pretty much the 0.1% interest you get on your checking account. So after being in congress for 25 years and his wife also having a decent income, he basically doesn’t have any cash savings?

  232. 232.

    Calouste

    @PhoenixRising: As I understand, you can ask the IRS for copies of your tax returns going back a number of years. Should not take more than a few weeks I guess.

  233. 233.

    Monala

    @PhoenixRising: Sanders’ son was 19 when he married Jane, so I’m guessing his child support ended within a year or two of their marriage – in other words, decades ago.

    On another site, someone speculated that there’s probably nothing illegal or unethical in his returns, just revelations that may contradict his image, such as great wealth, lack of generosity, and/or Wall Street investments.

  234. 234.

    Keith P.

    @Joel: Where are you getting 66% from? Last I read, odds of a contested convention were either 70% or 90% (so many percentages flying around lately, I’m mixing them up), and I just don’t see how on earth Trump wins a contested convention with the delegate situation (so many Cruz loyalists). Really, though, it’s OK either way….GOP has two absolute shit candidates, and they know it.

  235. 235.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    [email protected]Calouste: and it says he had up to $65,000 in credit debt. he says the debt is related to 2 weddings. I don’t think the people making $27 donations to his campaign can relate to $65,000 weddings.

  238. 238.

    Jeffro

    Big picture: I think now we know why Obama couldn’t put Hillary on the 2008 ticket and why Hillary’s not gonna put Bernie on the 2016 one… After all this back-and-forth nitpicking it is a big enough gesture just to put the other Nimrod in your cabinet but putting them down the hall from you is a bridge too far

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