Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Jack be nimble, jack be quick, hurry up and indict this prick.

Republicans: slavery is when you own me. freedom is when I own you.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

No Justins, No Peace

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

I really should read my own blog.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Everybody saw this coming.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

I was promised a recession.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Democratic Debate Open Thread Part II

Reader Interactions

253Comments

  2. 2.

    burnspbesq

    Seems like expecting to learn something about the candidates’ positions is the triumph of hope over experience.

    Are we out of popcorn?

  4. 4.

    mike in dc

    Bernie is getting the better of her(from a left-progressive foreign policy standpoint) on the I/P issue.

  9. 9.

    patroclus

    @Baud: What’s your position on the Israeli-Palestinian issue? (No shouting allowed). And, by the way, please release all the transcripts from your $250,000 speeches to Goldman Sachs forthwith.

  16. 16.

    patroclus

    @redshirt: It reminds me of Picard v. Admiral Sattee on TNG. I can’t wait for Hillary to shout “I’ve brought down bigger men than you Picard!”

  18. 18.

    guachi

    I lean more towards Sanders on I/P as well. But I basically think neither Israel nor Palestine particularly wants peace so the stance of the US is basically meaningless.

    Though I really think my view is colored because I’m an Arabic linguist and my wife is a Hebrew linguist (both Navy).

  21. 21.

    burnspbesq

    I’m inclined to think that the real reason Clinton doesn’t want to release the GS speeches is because she’s embarrassed by how banal and boring they are.

  24. 24.

    PhoenixRising

    Whose idea was this debate? Grandpa just HAD to invite everyone over when he knew Grandma was about ready to unload on him.

    That finger…and the promises…Jesus he just knows nothing about anything.

  26. 26.

    PhoenixRising

    @Walker: Not about the privatization of it? Because, honestly, the Clinton campaign has been appropriately delicate about attacking spousal actions that cut against the central theme of the campaign…for cause…Trump/Cruz won’t be.

    I worry that there might be substance there.

  28. 28.

    patroclus

    I used to work for a big bank and one time we had Zbig Brezhenski (sp?) as a speaker. He was really boring except for when he insinuated that one of his questioners was a commie (and we all went “ew.”) He immediately realized his mistake and apologized profusely.

  30. 30.

    magurakurin

    @PhoenixRising: Josh Marshal is equally puzzled. He keeps asking “what’s the endgame?” Indeed, where does this all end? If Sanders keeps down this path it will be a long, long walk back to an endorsement of Clinton.

  32. 32.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @patroclus: the man earned a place in my heart whence he shan’t easily be dislodged when he told Joe Scarborough his understanding of geopolitics was (IIRC) “remarkably shallow”

  34. 34.

    Parmenides

    @magurakurin: Eh no it won’t. He’ll stand there saying that she’s better by a mile than the republicans, then say that the revolution isn’t finished or something and the whole primary will be in the past.

  37. 37.

    Elie

    Bernie’s color is very red. Very.

    He is not in command and his redness shows it…

    He has some good views, but he is no longer the person likely to win and he needs to think about his endgame and also to prepare his peeps.

  42. 42.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Walker: According to what’s in their 2014 return (which isn’t the full return, but there you are), it looks like she’s “self-employed” and part of the couple is collecting Social Security. They had itemized deductions for 27% of their gross – a pretty big number (I think). Unless there’s something weird in their deductions (which we may never know unless they release Schedule A), it looks like Bernie is the breadwinner.

    Of course, that’s just one year. The Clintons set the gold standard here by releasing so much for so long.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  49. 49.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Jennifer Epstein ‏@ jeneps 1m1 minute ago
    Clinton notes this is the 9th debate and “we’ve not had one question about a woman’s right to make her own decisions about abortion”

    @Betty Cracker: Yup. He first said that a couple of weeks ago, I was very surprised it didn’t get more coverage. He’s basically agreeing wth the R’s that Obama’s time is up.

  50. 50.

    Redshift

    I finally had to unfriend Dan Froomkin on Facebook. He used to be a journalist, working for WaPo when I met him at YearlyKos. Now he works for Greenwald’s The Intercept, and is spending the debates posting stuff like “say what you like about Bernie, at least he doesn’t make stuff up about Clinton.”

    Yeah.

  51. 51.

    PhoenixRising

    @patroclus: which he’s wrong about, was wrong about 15 years ago and has kind of caught up but…okay, player.

    I’m not going to complain about being treated with respect for my human rights and dignity by BOTH contenders in the Dem primary.

  52. 52.

    Elie

    He avoided saying that he was a Democrat!!!! Again!

    He brings up that he would beat Trump more than her because of the independents….

    Yeah — right.

  53. 53.

    ? Martin

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    @patroclus: the man earned a place in my heart whence he shan’t easily be dislodged when he told Joe Scarborough his understanding of geopolitics was (IIRC) “remarkably shallow”

    Pointing out the obvious shouldn’t earn much.

  55. 55.

    Mike J

    @AkaDad: The best thing about moving to Seattle was bringing a pizza with anchovies to a group meeting and having everybody there say, “oh yum!”

  56. 56.

    Feathers

    I know this is OT for this particular thread, but we do now know what Trump goon of a campaign manager’s actual law enforcement history. Thanks, New York Times: Before Trump Campaign, Corey Lewandowski Rode Herd on a Town’s Leaders. Besides letting us know what a charmer he is, and that his wife was a 9/11 widow, there is this tidbit:

    He had law enforcement training as a part-time state marine patrol officer trainee from 2006 to 2010. Another neighbor, Allan Decker, recalled Mr. Lewandowski telling him why he enjoyed patrolling the waters. “You just have to keep an eye on things, and you get to motorboat around,” he said.

    In 2008, Mr. Lewandowski called the police after seeing that a door and a window had been kicked in at his second home in Windham, a seasonal property. Mr. Lewandowski told the dispatcher that “he is armed,” according to a police report of the call, but that he would wait for officers to arrive. As a result of the break-in, Mr. Lewandowski reported missing some policing gear: two pairs of handcuffs, a baton and pepper spray.

    So, he was a fish cop, trout trooper, water nazi…. I can say that because my brother had that job summers during college. That guy just gives off strange vibes. Corey, not my brother, who is usually fairly normal.

  57. 57.

    Elie

    Why aren’t you doing more for the Democrats?

    He says he has raised Yuge amounts of money for the democrats….

    Then deflects that he is opening the door to the independents and frowns on raising money from wealthy contributors.

    He is in fantasy land…

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Major Major Major Major: I think in the interest of transparency and a new kind of politics, Bernie! should tell his $27 donors how much of their money goes to Tad Devine. I believe the campaign outspent HRC on TV ads 2-1 in AZ and WI. In the past, I think that’s how the people at Devine’s level made obscene amounts of money.

  64. 64.

    Elie

    She talked of uniting the party.. of its important.

    Bash brings up Bernie fighting at the convention and he says he is gonna win the nomination…

    He brings up the deep south — and just assumes that he is gonna win the rest?

  65. 65.

    rikyrah

    @Walker:
    I don’t know. But, I look at the stalling about the taxes, and the excuses and call bullshyt. My parents were simple, middle-class folks….but they always kept the past 7 years worth of taxes in a box in top of their armoire. So, color me skeptical that people don’t have a physical copy of their taxes in a regular place.

  66. 66.

    ? Martin

    @redshirt: Yeah, I can see that working. Being from NY I’m not usually a fan of pineapple on pizza, but if you’re going to go all fancy shit, that looks like a good combo, particularly if you can get proper heat on it (most people wrongly tolerate flaccid pizza).

  73. 73.

    Mike J

    @redshirt:

    You got sweet, sour, salty, and spicy. Plus regular pizza cheese and sauce and crust and it’s sublime.

    I was going to defend you and say it sounded intriguing when I thought it was more of a flatbread with toppings and no sauce or moz. Now I think you’re just wrong.

  75. 75.

    mike in dc

    I’m voting for Bernie on the 26th, but June 15th can’t come soon enough. I expect the math will prevail, and Sen. Sanders will concede some time that week. Then there will be a month of adjustment before there’s (relative) unity at the convention. At any rate, there will be a substantial contrast with the circus in Cleveland the previous week.

  79. 79.

    J R in WV

    @burnspbesq:

    In Spain anchovies aren’t salty, they’re just buttery good fish. You can get them that way here, from a good seafood shop. Ours will order a kilo of them for tomorrow. They’re cured in olive oil with a little vinegar and shipped refrigerated. A little salt, but nothing like the salt-preserved things we call anchovies.

    Just now I went out onto the front porch to call a dog. It’s very quiet here now, Mrs is gone to bed. When I inhaled outside, there was an amazing aroma from blooming Paw-Paw trees, which hang over our front steps. It’s musky and dark and rich, and took my breath away at first. A wonderful smell unlike any other floral aroma I have ever smelled. And we have lived in the tropics way back, so jasmine and such are familiar.

  80. 80.

    Elie

    @efgoldman:

    Bernie just seems in a different place than reality. Remember he is going to the Vatican for that conference, leaving right after this debate… rather than campaigning over the weekend. He is gonna be even more exhausted and more likely to pop off. He recovered a little in the second half, but Hillary bloodied him bad in the first half…

    Some things are reinforced: he cannot call himself a democrat 2) he holds himself to a different standard on accountability about taxes etc 3) he continues to assume her lead is not real — that he is the real leader even though the counts are not in his favor. Strange dude….

  81. 81.

    ? Martin

    @rikyrah:

    So, color me skeptical that people don’t have a physical copy of their taxes in a regular place.

    Most people don’t, but members of congress have complicated and relatively unique tax returns and their taxes are scrutinized each year, so there’s no fucking way they aren’t available.

  82. 82.

    Mnemosyne

    @Feathers:

    One of my late brother’s cop friends wanted to transfer from the K-9 unit to marine patrol because marine patrol is a cushy assignment. Unfortunately for him, the department decided that it was too early for Boss (his K-9 partner) to retire and the dog would have been placed with another officer if he had transferred, so he stayed put. I think he’s still planning to transfer once Boss is allowed to retire.

  83. 83.

    peej01

    The thing that drives me nuts about Bernie (other than his interrupting any time he feels like it…which is a lot of the time) is his insistence that his way is the only way to achieve something, even though there may be more easily achievable alternatives which accomplish the same goals.

  87. 87.

    Miss Bianca

    @efgoldman: yeah, but you do realize that’s *Bottom* talking, right? The ass with the ass’s head? You’re gonna listen to *him*? ; )

  89. 89.

    Mnemosyne

    All right, I’ll go there: I like Hawaiian pizza. Tomato sauce + pineapple + Canadian bacon = yum, especially if the pineapple is fresh.
    /dons flame-proof suit

  90. 90.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: Try feta and greek olives (as in the brined ones). This is a modification of my favorite, which is gyro meat, feta cheese, and greek olives. When I was an undergrad at Emory we had a local pizza place and Greek restaurant: Athens Pizza and Restaurant. This was a the Athens’ Special.

  91. 91.

    patroclus

    I didn’t know Bernie’s Dad was from Poland – that’s the first thing I learned this entire debate! Otherwise, it really harshed my mellow.

  93. 93.

    Kropadope

    @Omnes Omnibus: Mushrooms are my number one single topping pizza choice. They’re perfect on bar pizza. Though I also love Papa Gino’s plain cheese above all plain cheeses save maybe a really good deep dish. The rest of the pizza places in my vicinity are mostly (I believe) Egyptian run. Nice family at the one I worked for. Papa John’s is distant and not very good. I only ever got it when they used to send me free coupons.

  95. 95.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Miss Bianca: Anchovies, like goat’s milk cheese, are things that I think are great in theory but really don’t enjoy. Okay, add Proust and Radiohead.

  100. 100.

    Miss Bianca

    @Mnemosyne: I’ll go there with you! You are not alone!

    @Adam L Silverman: Well, I’ve heard them called “hairy fish” before, but – “an eyebrow”?! Damme, sir! That’s an image that cannot be…un-image-ined.

    ETA: I’ve never had the lightly-brined ones before. Not a hot item up here in the mountains, strangely, sadly.

  101. 101.

    CaseyL

    I’m an old-fashioned girl: pepperoni, mushrooms and olives is my go-to.

    But I will flirt with the fancier toppings. Quite fond of the “Greek style” with feta and kalamata olives.

    In an ideal world, they would make pizzas with alternating slices. Yes, I know I can get 1/2 & 1/2. I do get that, pretty often. It’s not the same.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    Fun note in the #Hamiltome — LMM wanted to use a super-obscure quote from “Macbeth” for “Take A Break,” but the guy who runs the Public Theater told him, “Lin, I run the Shakespeare Festival every year and even I don’t recognize that quote.” So he changed it to the more familiar one that stayed in the song.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: Its from a Robin Williams’ standup routine if I’m recalling correctly. I really do like the freshly filleted, lightly oiled and lightly salted ones that JR in WV was describing.

  106. 106.

    magurakurin

    @CaseyL:

    they would make pizzas with alternating slices.

    they make 4 in 1 pizzas in Japan. Two slices of each kind, eight in all. But, damn, the toppings…mayo and tuna, salmon roe, crab and shrimp, nori and bonita flakes with okonomiyaki sauce…frickin’ vile.

  107. 107.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: That’s OK. I quite like spicy sausage. Proust I’ve never read, and Radiohead goes straight into “meh…OK” territory.

    Did you ever get around to watching “Nosferatu”? : )

  109. 109.

    magurakurin

    @efgoldman:

    Hawaiian is to pizza as rainbow play-doh is to bagels.

    You must be from the East Coast…and if you aren’t…you will always be welcome there.

  110. 110.

    redshirt

    @Adam L Silverman: Olives would naturally make sense in this combo as well, but I am not a fan. Except when served with martinis.

    So for my entire pizza masterpiece:

    Garlic crust glazed with an olive oil/hot sauce
    Tomato sauce heavy on the pepper and fresh cilantro
    Fresh mozzarella
    Pineapple, onion, jalapeno and feta toppings
    Crushed red pepper and oregano sprinkled on top

  112. 112.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I haven’t had Hawaiian pizza in years, decades even, but I didn’t dislike it. Sausage and mushroom is my default, with onions if I know it’s a place that knows how to chop them (very fine). Ricotta, spinach, and fresh tomatoes is my veggie choose, or wild mushroom

    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 24m24 minutes ago
    This is the problem: A year ago Dems hoped Bernie could push Hillary left. But every time she obliges, Bernie portrays it as a scam.

    ETA: What the hell is the thinking here? Sign of a candidate in a bubble

    daveweigel ‏@ daveweigel 20m20 minutes ago
    Again with Bernie swiping at “the deep South” and boasting that he won places like Utah

  114. 114.

    Elie

    Hillary did what she needed to do IMHO. Bernie still cannot do details and is still a grumpy old man rather than a statesman we could see as President. He has had a good run. I look to and expect that Hillary will sew this up soon. Hope he is coming up with his face saving exit strategy and that he is a man of his word that he will support the eventual nominee. He did say he is releasing his 2014 taxes tomorrow. Nope on any other years. He has released his speeches…. Hillary called for party unity and for bringing the country together. I agree that there will be that need but its pretty divided right now and its hard to see how it all comes back together. Still, she is tough and smart and she will also need to be very lucky. Why anyone wants that job is beyond me.

  119. 119.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: I’m not a big fan of pineapple on pizza, or grilled/cooked pineapple (outside of thai food and as a base for a dessert), but I understand, taste wise what you’ve put together and why.

  120. 120.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: Errr…boggle? There’s a Boulder-style pizza? That’s not the one with the dope in the crust, is it?

    Question for *you* – have you ever tried to make a gluten-free pizza crust? I’ve tried one with cornmeal, and it’s pretty good, but not really chewy enough…

  123. 123.

    dollared

    @Omnes Omnibus: @Kropadope: I’m a cheese, pepperoni and sausage guy for traditional pizza ( I think I consumed 500 frozen Jack’s pizzas in high school), but I had a wood- fired fig, goat cheese, smoked mozzarella and caramelized onion pizza the other day that was – awesome.

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Miss Bianca: cauliflower crust, vegan cheese, certified heirloom tomatoes, tofurkey sausage and non-GMO onions, baked in a solar oven. It’s a pizza that barely casts a shadow. And you have to tell strangers about it.

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: Not yet. I have Bob’s Redmill gluten free flour and I was going to try it and see how it comes out. It’ll be about two weeks though before I get a chance. I’ve got the recipe for Lou Malnatti’s crust from Chicago, so it will also get corn meal/flour, and it’ll be deep dish.

  132. 132.

    Kropadope

    @dollared: I’d love to find the pizza restaurant near me that serves fired fig. Truly, that sounds incredible. Also, you’re the second person tonight to mention caramelized onions. That’s one of my favorite things in the world and I never not once thought to put on a pizza.

  135. 135.

    SciNY

    Look, I wasn’t in love with either of these two candidates at the start of the primary season, and tonight definitely wasn’t one for the highlight reels or home movies. I strongly supported BHO in 2008 and felt HRC grew enormously over the past 7 years and was clearly qualified to be President. In most years that’s all I ask for. However I think we are at a pivotal point in American history. As such, our candidate needs to find and express a vision of where America should go next. In a way it’s unfair, as Obama got a hell of a lot done (including the PPACA and the deal with Iran) despite an intransigent opposition party), but I wanna be seduced or at least sweet-talked a bit first. The last two months have really worn the shine off Bernie’s candidacy for me, even though he’s closer to my political preferences in an imaginary world unlinked to reality. Why are there so few leaders who have both the vision and the sausage-making skills? Lord knows we need both to move the ball forward. At this point in history I think HRC is the best choice to make sure we don’t get sacked for a big loss, but I earnestly hope she’s heard enough (and can learn from naturally gifted politicians she’s worked and lived with) to find a way to connect with both our minds and our hearts. For sure the other side is dealing with dark emotions of hate, fear, and jealousy, which are real and won’t go away with logic alone.

  139. 139.

    Juju

    @CaseyL: I’m with you on the pepperoni and mushrooms. When you say olives, I assume you mean black olives? I also like banana peppers.

  141. 141.

    Scamp Dog

    @Omnes Omnibus: Pepperoni, pineapple and mushrooms for me. The sweetness of the pineapple works well with the spiciness of the pepperoni, and mushroom are just generally good. Yum, pizza!

  142. 142.

    Adam L Silverman

    @redshirt: It depends what you’re shish-kabobing it for. If you’re grilling it to get caramelization and enhance sweetness for a dessert or to make a salsa or marinade or to cause the heated and caramelized juices to marinade something else you’re grilling, then yes. But to do it just to do it doesn’t do much for me. Too easy to over due it and blacken the outside and turn the inside into mush.

  143. 143.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Unfortunately, “chewy” and “gluten-free” don’t go together because it’s the gluten that creates the chewiness of the dough. Usually the best you can do is something cracker-like, which can have its own appeal if you’re expecting it.

  150. 150.

    Kropadope

    @dollared: The sprawling suburbs South of Boston. I bet I could find it in maybe Boston, Newton, Wellesley; they all have really nice restaurants. Though there could honestly be a random good place anywhere. I know a few towns, but we have something like 350.

    I suppose there is mass market semi-upscale places like Bertuccis and the Chateau (I refuse to count Olive Garden).

  151. 151.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: “add to your helmet”? What, spikes? : )

    What chills me even now when I think about it is that I wasn’t a regular helmet wearer in those days – I just happened to grab it as I was going out the door. We might not be having this pleasant conversation if I hadn’t.

  153. 153.

    Mike J

    Jesse Ferguson ‏@JesseFFerguson 29m29 minutes ago
    Reminder on electability, Karl Rove launched ads TODAY to help Sanders in NY. cause they know HRC is toughest.

  155. 155.

    SoupCatcher

    @redshirt:
    If you’re ever in Sunnyvale, CA, I’d recommend Indian pizza.

    Still working our way through the menu, but this is my current favorite:

    Khai Nayak Pizza (Saag Chicken) Spicy – Indian style pizza sauce, saag, chicken, red onions, jalapeno, mozzarella cheese, topped with fresh cilantro

  159. 159.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Stay open to the notion that it may be FODMAPs, not gluten, that’s the problem.

    Unless you have an issue with arthritis or similar inflammatory conditions, in which case it’s probably the gluten.

  160. 160.

    ? Martin

    @Adam L Silverman: Most people don’t have access to enough heat. A 700-800 degree grill does a nice job with pineapple – grills the outside before the inside can even heat up. You need a rather good gas grill for that or know what you are doing with a wood grill.

    Thankfully I do have a rather good gas grill.

  161. 161.

    Kropadope

    @redshirt: The aforementioned bar pizzas are my personal favorite. Very specific diameter that I’ll guesstimate at 10″, half inch thin, thinnest possible crust with never fail delicious browned cheese around the edge.

    ETA: As far as Papa Ginos, it’s specifically their plain cheese I like. There is just something about the particular blend of cheese they use that I love. Their crust style is meh, but they’re one of the best practitioners of that style. It’s boring but still decently tasty bread.

  162. 162.

    Mnemosyne

    @Miss Bianca:

    I always wear a helmet, even on bike paths, because I am a klutz. Getting a head injury because a squirrel ran out in front of my bike is way too plausible for me.

  163. 163.

    seaboogie

    My late husband and I used to live across the street from this place.

    We’d grab the phone and look out our picture window for the phone number, and order two different pizza options on one pizza, specifying what we wanted on the left side and what we wanted on the right side, because we were silly that way.

    So great to see that it is still there, although a bit fancier than back in our day. Very old-school, with Mama and Papa working, son Frank the pizza-master, daughter Maria working as hostess, and the little grandkids running around. During a power outage one summer evening we strolled across the street (because we knew that their ovens and stoves ran on gas) and sat outside on that little patio having a great meal until the power came back on.

  166. 166.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ha! Well, speaking of “Damn it, Jim!” – I’ve got the last episode of Star Trek Season 2 cued up, so I will wish you and all good night. (I don’t need any more debate. I’m a committed Clinton delegate.)

  167. 167.

    ? Martin

    @Mnemosyne:

    Unfortunately, “chewy” and “gluten-free” don’t go together because it’s the gluten that creates the chewiness of the dough.

    Yep. The key to a flaky pie crust is to substitute vodka for half of your water as the alcohol doesn’t allow the gluten to form and make the crust chewy.

  168. 168.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    One of these days, I will figure out how to work FODMAPs, ADHD, and Hamilton into a single comment that will melt the internets. Just you wait.

  169. 169.

    CaseyL

    @Juju: Yes, regular ol’ black olives. But every once in a while I’ll get kalamatas instead, because I love those.

    Actually, I just plain love olives. I buy ’em canned and eat ’em like candy. There’s a commercial olive-garlic tapenade that I’ve been known to eat with a spoon, all by itself.

  170. 170.

    seaboogie

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am maybe on olives.

    Understood. The beauty of olives is that they have the saltiness of anchovies (esp the green ones), without the fishiness, and they are easy to pick off if you don’t like them.

  171. 171.

    Kropadope

    @efgoldman: I honestly prefer Bertucci’s. There’s something I don’t like about the Chateau. All thir food has this weird….I’ll describe it as a tang…that I’m not that into. Neither of them hold a candle to my father tho, so I don’t go often anyway.

  172. 172.

    dollared

    @Kropadope: Ah, I haven’t been to your neck of the woods since college. Try wood fired pizza places – all the rage now in Seattle. And Tutta Bella, the guys who make all these fancy, wood-fired, thin crust, exotic ingredient pizzas in Seattle, claim that they are Neapolitan style. I bet you can find that somewhere around you.

  174. 174.

    dollared

    @Omnes Omnibus: Still in Madison? I bring the kids to the Rocky’s in Fitchburg about once every other year. Or the one at the north end of Billy Mitchell field if we fly in there. Just can’t get pizza like like that in Seattle.

  177. 177.

    J R in WV

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    We found sticks of real aged pepperoni, wrapped in cloth and hung to age. It’s hard to slice up, but sublime on pizza.

    Tonight we had a large half sausage and roast peppers and half artichoke hearts, roasted garlic and feta.Sublime!

  178. 178.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Josh MarshallVerified account
    ‏@ joshtpm
    For all candidates, both parties, imagine debates where “foreign policy” meant more than Israel and the Arab Middle East. #bigworld

  179. 179.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: I only remember they were in the mountains somewhere between Denver and Vail? Aspen? Its been a long time. They had excellent meatballs.

    Also, you’ve got two emails from me – one the long overdue answer to those questions.

  182. 182.

    J R in WV

    @Miss Bianca:

    I think you need both sexes, and probably we only have one… could just be one huge tree, spread out underground. Very rare to get a fruit. Mountain bananas I have heard them called, I couldn’t swear to that. But the smell of the blooms, tiny dark red, 4 petals hanging like a little bell. Amazing aroma.

    Later in the summer we get some honeysuckle vines, and they’re as strongly scented, but sweeter and brighter an aroma. Really nice in the evening. We don’t have many, but higher elevations have honey locust trees, another really strong sweet aroma. People go on about flowers, but trees really have an aroma for the few days they flower.

  183. 183.

    Juju

    @CaseyL: I love black olives. I can eat green, but I don’t seek them out, but I once got a bad stomach churning virus after the last thing I ate was kalamata olives. I haven’t had any since. I can’t even bring myself to smell kalamata.

  185. 185.

    benw

    @CaseyL: totally with you on olives. I like to keep the can in the fridge even before I open it, because I like my olives cold. One of my fav snacks is olives with carrot sticks; just the right amount of oil and salt and sweet and crunch!

  186. 186.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: My GI doc is originally from India. As he says: “believe me, I know GI problems…” In my case they’re not really sure. Something I was exposed to in Iraq messed up my GI system. I’ve had issues since I got back. They’ve tested for everything – I thought I was going to run out of samples!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWiFoJ5ZqU

    Several months ago, after being largely symptom and problem free for almost a year, I started having problems. I had a cuban sandwich and was immediately in serious discomfort. I won’t go into the details. A week or so later I had a piece of carrot cake – before I finished it I was reacting badly. Same thing with some chicken soup that did have some wheat product in it/wasn’t gluten free. When I took it up with my doctor he said he wasn’t even going to retest me. That just to treat it as whatever is going on has now switched to gluten intolerance and to cut that out of my diet. I didn’t eat a lot of bread or processed carbs before, but went cold turkey. Symptoms went away. Have lost an inch and 1/2 off my waist. I have the occasional gluten free pizza or, since I’m fighting a sinus infection right now, I got some of those Vans’ gluten free blueberry waffles for dinner last night. So far so good.

  188. 188.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Mnemosyne: I thought I had a gluten problem for a while, then finally figured out that what really causes me trouble now seems to be dairy products. Pizza made me sick, but it was the cheese, not the crust. The hardest thing is that I’ve had to pretty much give up ice cream.

    (A lot of doctors now don’t seem to even think gluten sensitivity apart from celiac disease exists. Could be FODMAPS or something else.)

  191. 191.

    Cacti

    @patroclus:

    I didn’t know Bernie’s Dad was from Poland – that’s the first thing I learned this entire debate! Otherwise, it really harshed my mellow.

    Yep, his pops was a WWII era immigrant…

    Which makes his previous anti-immigrant votes amazingly hypocritical.

  192. 192.

    seaboogie

    @CaseyL:

    Actually, I just plain love olives.

    After my parents split when I was 13, my Dad moved from WI to Toronto for a job. After about a year of single-parenthood, Mom decided that a no-kid life was her preference and we kids moved to Toronto to live with Dad. That summer I spent about 6 weeks at my Mom’s place in St. Paul, MN at her adults only apt. building. Over the course of several weeks, I drained her jar of salad olives (bits and pieces) down to just a few odd bits floating around in the jar. She gave me holy hell for that, because “olives are expensive!” (Hey Mom – you know what’s more expensive than olives? Four years of therapy…recently completed.)

    So a few years later we moved to a tiny town in SW Ontario and my Dad met a wonderful woman who would become our adored stepmother – very loving and fun and down to earth. When Dad took his gang of rag-tag teens and pre-teen over to her place, we discovered that she had a jelly-roll tray of blueberries in her freezer that she was freezing individually to keep them whole before putting them in a container. Every time we went over there, we three kids would take just a few so she wouldn’t notice any missing. After several visits, she opened her freezer to find about 8 blueberries on this big tray. She thought it was one of the funniest things she had ever seen, and that story is part of our family lore. And we did finally get the mothering that we craved.

  194. 194.

    Aqualad08

    @mike in dc:

    Bernie is getting the better of her(from a left-progressive foreign policy standpoint) on the I/P issue.

    Yeah… too bad they’re in NY, eh?

  195. 195.

    Kropadope

    @Cacti: If remember correctly, he wasn’t against immigration reform itself but rather the particular bill without sufficient protections for immigrant workers, a fact which also hurts workers generally.

  196. 196.

    Elie

    @SciNY:

    You are right… this is a particularly challenging period and our choices do not seem like the romantic ideal. Still, I will take the Spartan Queen — disciplined, tough and prepared over the visionary Jeremiah. Bernie is just not ready for this stuff. He is also too old. That is not a superficial critique — this stuff is high speed hard ball and he has never had to face that and it showed too often. I think generally Hillary was not personal in her attacks on Bernie. She reamed him out on policy and organizing his priorities and thinking. He was personal because that is the way he rolls.. What surfaced for both were management and decision making/leadership styles that defined their fitness for this office. I think tonight made it very very clear except for the most blind.

  197. 197.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I don’t know why people are just noticing now what Sanders first said at least two weeks ago about Garland, but this is something like the reaction I had then

    John Cole ‏@ Johngcole 1h1 hour ago
    Fuck you, Bernie. That’s Obama’s pick. You’re no different from the GOP if you think that is your pick.
    Eat a bag of dicks.

    ETA: @Aqualad08: I’ll allow as to having had that same cynical thought: She just increased her margin

  198. 198.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Seriously, check out FODMAPs — wheat is one of them, and garlic (which was probably all over that Cuban sandwich) is a prime culprit as well. Kate Scarlata is a registered dietitian with a great website that explains it all. A lot of GI doctors in the US aren’t familiar with it yet because most of the science is coming out of Australia.

    If it is FODMAPs, cutting out wheat will help, but it won’t totally fix the problem until you figure out which group(s) you react to and avoid foods from that whole group.

  199. 199.

    Central Planning

    When I was in Italy I had pizza with pear and Gouda. That was delicious.

    And I’m +1 for Hawaiian pizza

  201. 201.

    rikyrah

    @? Martin:
    When I say physical, I just don’t mean a paper copy. In these days, I don’t have a paper copy. I do, however have a folder on the computer that houses my pdfs of my taxes. Everytime I get a new computer, the folder is transferred from the old to the new. I don’t believe that folks don’t know how to get their tax returns.

  205. 205.

    Mnemosyne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Lactose is a major FODMAP group, so it’s worth looking into. It’s very un-intuitive, unfortunately, and there’s a lot of incorrect information out there, which is why I recommend Kate Scarlata’s website.

    Another way to tell that you may have a FODMAPs problem is if sugarless gum made with sorbitol or any other sugar alcohol causes digestive problems for you. I can have maybe 2 pieces of sugarless gum at a time, or else I’m miserable.

  208. 208.

    Elie

    @Aqualad08:

    Yeah but that does not take into account that the strong party that has to be brought to the table is Israel — and she has to have bargaining space and some positive mojo with them to do that. If she says up front that only the Palestinians are right, she has no traction on the Israelis. Bernie should know that, but it was political expediency of currying favor with the left rather than “shit, I may really need to wade in and seriously try to fix this thing”, that motivated his stance. She is the leader looking at how to position herself in a complex strategy with entrenched and bitter international opponents. Bernie is running for being the most popular professor in the poly sci department.

  211. 211.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This is ONLY IF they have already ruled out celiac or Crohn’s for you: you can try eating a piece of seitan and see if you have issues. It’s pretty much pure gluten but FODMAP-free, so it’s a good way to test ONLY IF they’re already sure you don’t have celiac or Crohn’s.

    NOTE: I am not a doctor or even a dietician, so adjust accordingly.

  212. 212.

    jonas

    @burnspbesq: GS (and HRC) would both be put in the position of admitting she got $100 grand for a slightly revised version of one of her basic stump speeches. Doesn’t look good for anyone.

  216. 216.

    burnspbesq

    @jonas:

    What you’d really like is the transcript of is the pre- or post- speech conversation with Lloyd, Harvey, and the rest of the C-level guys.

  217. 217.

    Calouste

    @rikyrah: Sanders can go to the IRS website, there is a link to get previous tax returns right on the front page. Just fill in some personal info and the IRS will send a hard copy to the address they have in file in 5-10 days. There is absolutely no excuse to not release the last three years at least of tax returns, and not to have done so before the first primary. There must be something quite smelly in there.

  220. 220.

    benw

    @efgoldman:

    I don’t know their name, but there are really big bright green and bright red ones that are super tasty.

    Sounds delish! For my munching around the house, a fridge-cold can of standard-issue black olives with some carrot sticks to add crunch is an easy snack.

  221. 221.

    Gex

    My favorite pizza is pepperoni and green olives.

    When I worked overnights in the network operations center at Wells Fargo (Norwest at the time) we used to all order pizza at the beginning of the shift before places closed and store them in the fridge in the break room at the end of our shift. Invariably the next day all my coworkers would find a piece or two of their pizza was stolen, but no one ever stole a slice of my pepperoni and green olive pizzas.

  222. 222.

    elftx

    We can get frozen Home Run Inn pizza at Spouts here in the Dallas burbs. So for us it is a wee taste of home.
    And on occasion we have ordered Portillos Italian beef. Not yet found anyplace here that has it as good.

  223. 223.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @efgoldman: I am tired of people randomly diagnosing medical conditions without having the slightest background as a medical practitioner. And yes, it applies to my profession as well.

  224. 224.

    burnspbesq

    @Calouste:

    There must be something quite smelly in there.

    I kinda doubt it. Bernie doesn’t strike me as the type. If there are issues with his returns, i would expect them to be stupid, dog-ate-my-homework type stuff (underpaying estimated tax, being in AMT and not realizing it). A common fuckup for people who work into their 70s is forgetting to take the minimum required distribution from a qualified plan or IRA.

    The other possibility is that he never expected to be in the race long enough for people to start asking for his returns, and genuinely got caught with his pants down.

  227. 227.

    Cacti

    When it comes to Bernie’s energy policy, I’ve also been wondering something that no one’s bothered to ask.

    If we don’t use nuclear power, and we don’t use natural gas (fracking), what are we going to replace them with?

    Revolutionary spirit?

    Fairy dust?

    Unicorn farts?

  232. 232.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Cacti: I happen to like nuclear. I find it sad that nobody talks about it.

    Anyway, you replace it with this fun thing called “a significantly lower standard of living” that the greens like to sweep under the rug.

  237. 237.

    dollared

    @Major Major Major Major: Because it’s bullshit. Moronic, Republican bullshit. Solar, wind and natural gas (no need to frack, there is a 200 year supply minimum and more will be found) are plenty of power. And that doesn’t get to new baseline sources such as tidal and geothermal, that could easily be developed over the next 30-40 years. You can spout Republican talking points if you want, but that is absolutely the stupidest reason imaginable to criticize Bernie.

  240. 240.

    dollared

    @Major Major Major Major: “significantly lower standard of living.” Bullshit. A 20 year transition program gradually eliminating coal and increasing renewables 10 fold, with natural gas as the bridge, will cut GHG from electrical production by 50% and cost the average consumer very little.

  241. 241.

    Anne Laurie

    New post up, with debate tweets, if anyone’s curious.

    @Darkrose:

    I just saw a couple of people mention the Garland thing and I was wondering what it was about.

    From what I’ve seen second hand, moderators baited Sanders into saying that if *he* wins in November he’ll demand Obama withdraw Garland’s nomination, so that there can be a true progressive nominated in his place.

    Which IMO was a stupid trap that Bernie should’ve known better than to fall for, because it’s gonna remind people about all the Sandernista’s worst liabilities. They’re not only unrealistic about what can be achieved in a two-party Congress packed with RWNJ Repubs, they’re pissy & dismissive about every person on “their” side who is not as immaculate and progressive as The Only Honest Man in Congress. Because anyone who’s had to negotiate for what they could get, instead of demanding exactly what they want, is a corporatist sellout…

  242. 242.

    frosty

    @rikyrah:

    When I say physical, I just don’t mean a paper copy.

    Old school. I print the PDF and save it. An accountant would throttle me, I still have a copy of every 1040 I’ve ever done.

  243. 243.

    Mnemosyne

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    FWIW, the whole FODMAPs thing seems to be less “medical condition” and more “variations within the normal range of sensitivity.” Nobody is going to die from eating them, they just cause gas and other GI symptoms. If a medical professional has already ruled out everything else, that’s when you start looking at them, not before.

    But I’m still pretty sure Cole has ADHD.

  246. 246.

    dollared

    @Major Major Major Major: No, you were saying no natural gas because no fracking. But even without fracking, there is plenty. Hundreds of years. And burning gas is a major reduction in emissions from coal. Really, you’re on this blog so I assume you’re a smart guy. Cutting GHG from electrical production 50% could be done in 30 years. The research is out there. The trendlines for costs of renewables, for storage that would enable us to use less gas as a baseline load, are all down, down, down.

  247. 247.

    Major Major Major Major

    @dollared: And you can add into that recapture and some of the other promising sciencey stuff too, yeah. One of the benefits of fracking is that it gives us lots of natural gas right now. And the downsides aren’t as bad as advertised, if we’re talking about doing it in a responsible and properly-regulated way. Remember, we’ve been using it for decades. I know that’s me dreaming a little, but hey, my equation has affordable and responsible nuclear in it too, so I’m weird.

    I guess I assumed that what I was replying to was using “fracking” as a shorthand for natural gas exploration, which in my experience is what most people mean.

  248. 248.

    dollared

    @Major Major Major Major: If we could trust the nuclear industry and nuclear regulators, and the true cost of insurance were factored in so that siting and operations decisions would be more cautious, I agree that nuclear is such a hugely attractive baseline producer that it is hard to ignore.

    The safety of fracking – well, we just don’t know, do we? The secrecy is a big part of the problem.

  249. 249.

    Anne Laurie

    @mike in dc:

    I’m voting for Bernie on the 26th, but June 15th can’t come soon enough. I expect the math will prevail, and Sen. Sanders will concede some time that week. Then there will be a month of adjustment before there’s (relative) unity at the convention. At any rate, there will be a substantial contrast with the circus in Cleveland the previous week.

    From your keyboard to the Trickster God’s ears!

  250. 250.

    Yutsano

    @Mnemosyne: Fun fact: Hawai’ian pizza is actually Canadian. So it’s kind of like me, if Hawai’i ever actually did go independent.

  251. 251.

    daryljfontaine

    @Gex: You can share a pizza with me (and my mom). That’s been a go-to pizza for over 30 years.

    Recently discovered the joy of mushrooms + roasted red peppers on pizza. So tasty, and I don’t miss the meat when I’m in the mood for it.

    Re: kalamata olives, I’ve been experimenting with Middle Eastern and Mediterranean dishes (shakshouka, lahmajoun, etc.) and decided to let Amazon Prime do work for me: they delivered a five-pound barrel of brined kalamata for about $20, which should last me roughly forever. Kalamata olives in shakshouka is heavenly.

    D

  252. 252.

    different-church-lady

    @Elie:

    he continues to assume her lead is not real — that he is the real leader even though the counts are not in his favor.

    I’m tellin’ ya, the guy is trying to psych-ops his way to the nomination. And it’s a little disconcerting how close he’s coming to succeeding.

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