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An almost top 10,000 blog!

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

This blog will pay for itself.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Let there be snark.

A dilettante blog from the great progressive state of West Virginia.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / College Football + Other Stuff Open Thread

College Football + Other Stuff Open Thread

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LSU has dispatched Loo-uh-vull, and Georgia Tech handily dismantled Kentucky, so now it’s on to the games with title implications: ‘Bama vs. Washington starts at 3 PM ET (Roll Tide!), and Ohio State and Clemson play at 7 PM (Go Clemson!).

I’ve got ropa vieja simmering in the kitchen (following this recipe, more or less, only I use Goya Adobo instead of assembling the spice mix described in the recipe because ain’t nobody got TIME for that shit!) and am enjoying the beautiful weather outside.

A beer would complete the circle of my domestic contentment, but I gotta pace myself: I want to make damn sure I’m awake at midnight to watch motherfucking 2016 die!

Open thread for both sportsball and non-sportsball talk!

Reader Interactions

132Comments

  2. 2.

    Shell

    I want to make damn sure I’m awake at midnight to watch motherfucking 2016 die!

    Damn, I hope I can. Ive finally caught this crap cold that everyone else has come down with, and its turned me into a massive mucus factory. Sleeping has been problematic. So right now midnight feels reeeeeeeally far away Can champagne sometimes be a stimulant?

  3. 3.

    Baud

    I don’t read The Intercept but a headline came across my feed that they are criticizing the WaPo story about Russians hacking the Vermont utility. I didn’t read the article but I thought people who follow that stuff here might be interested.

  5. 5.

    Eric NNY

    BUCKEYES FOR THE SPOILER AGAIN! Yes, that’s screaming in all caps. It’s about to be 2017 so you’ll need to get used to it.

  10. 10.

    Phylllis

    @Eric NNY: I’m hoping for an OSU win because I despise Dabo with the heat of a thousand fiery nuns. I also despise Urban, a bit less, because at least he doesn’t spout all the pious mewling bullshit that constantly erupts from Swinney.

  11. 11.

    donnah

    My dad passed away two years ago on New Years Eve, and my mother struggles with that every year. So my husband and I will be heading over to play cards and board games as a distraction.

    I will also be glad to see a terrible year filled with loss go away. Our lovely old girl dog Wendy, a former BJ calendar girl, passed away just three days before Thanksgiving. She was fourteen.

    Not that I’m expecting 2017 to not be a living nightmare, but please, please let 2016 be gone!

  13. 13.

    Betty Cracker

    @raven: Guess that depends on what “live up to” means. FSU-Michigan was an exciting game (2nd half, anyway), but it didn’t showcase the two best teams in the country.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    @Phylllis: I don’t know anything about Swinney except how he got the nickname “Dabo,” which is a cute story. But if he’s a flaming asshole, I’m not surprised. My favorite great uncles went to Clemson, and I don’t like OSU, so that’s why I’m rooting for the Tigers. But I’m not that invested, really.

  18. 18.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: WaPo’s original article had several inaccuracies, though it is unclear if anyone knew they were inaccuracies at the time. WaPo originally reported that Russian hackers, had managed to infiltrate the computer system of the electric utility in Vermont, thereby putting the grid at risk. What actually happened is that Russian hackers had breached a laptop of someone working for the utility. That laptop is not connected to anything that could access the computers that control/maintain the power grid.

    My take on this is that they broke the story in a hurry as a scoop because of “the cyber” and when the full extent of the info came out they looked silly. Its also why I didn’t run a breaking news post on it last night, instead I went to bed and decided to wait and see how the story developed. It just seemed a bit to breathless in the original reporting.

  20. 20.

    Betty Cracker

    @raven: I did, but maybe I misunderstood the point. If it was sometimes non-playoff bowl games are more exciting than playoff games, my response is: True. So?

  22. 22.

    zhena gogolia

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    You’re in Lakeland — go see the Annie Pfeiffer Chapel!

    I realize that’s an unrealistic bit of advice. Anyway, try not to fixate too much on it’s being NYE.

  23. 23.

    The Dangerman

    Go Huskies!

    I think 7-0 is a mirage; Bama should abuse them unless they were out partying last night.

  24. 24.

    Gelfling 545

    @Shell: my sister and I are dining together this evening on boeuf en crouûte which was meant to serve several. Everybody else is sick. I believe it’s due to the fact that we are/were teachers and have developed robust immune systems due to prolonged exposure to just about everything.

  25. 25.

    Gretchen

    @donnah: My sister’s husband passed away 2 years ago on New Year’s Day, so it’s a rough day for her too. My condolences on both your dad and Wendy.

  29. 29.

    Mnemosyne

    @PaulWartenberg2016:

    Don’t be surprised to see quite a few people (like me) commenting tonight — we don’t go out on amateur nights, so it’s going to be snacks, frozen pizza, and getting caught up on “Drunk History.”

    We really enjoyed Rogue One, so I can recommend that as a movie choice. And I hear Disney has a new animated musical out, what was that called again … ? ?

  30. 30.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:

    Someone Somewhere Is Having More Fun Than I Am

    Shouldn’t that tag be on every post?

    No can do, it’s already the republican unwritten motto. Why do you think they spend all their time trying to make the rest of us as miserable as they are.

  32. 32.

    Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)

    Brother flew out last night, we had a good time. Going to watch the games of course. No plans for tonight, probably just hang out with you guys. Not really in much of a party mood.

    One note about the Trumpocalypse – when you grow up knowing that a political party literally wants you dead and gone, it’s kind of hard to freak out about it. Growing up in the 60s/70s, this was a lesson you learned EARLY. I suspect that what many of you are feeling and describing is little different than what I’ve felt on and off since I was about six. Keep your heads up and on a swivel. Good advice then, good advice now.

  33. 33.

    donnah

    @Gretchen:

    Thanks for the kind thoughts, Gretchen. Loss is always difficult, but during the holidays it seems worse. I’m sorry for your family as well. Let’s hope 2017 is better.

  34. 34.

    Botsplainer

    I just want to accept accolades for my prediction on the score of the Louisville flop.

    As Betty will attest, I said “two touchdowns and a field goal, minimum”.

  35. 35.

    geg6

    Gonna watch the Pens game and eat the feast I’m making for dinner. We’ll undoubtedly be stuffed and a bit buzzed from the wine and prosecco, so I very much doubt we’ll make midnight. If we do, I’ll probably watch the live broadcast from Pittsburgh’s First Night for the countdown. Still avoiding the national msm as much as possible and the local CBS station will be broadcasting the city’s celebration.

  36. 36.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. I’ll be home, and since my kiddo has flown the coop and hubby is not a night owl, I’ll probably end up watching the Twilight Zone marathon all by my lonesome (well, aside from dogs) after the ball drops.

  38. 38.

    Schlemazel

    @germy:
    That interview is a couple years old. Also too, Dicky has a decade on Mary so he needs to be more concerned about seeing another year.

  39. 39.

    Schlemazel

    @donnah:
    My grandmother died on Christmas eve and it hit my dad pretty hard for years after. Its a crime people go near the holidays

  43. 43.

    Schlemazel

    Betty, You should check the Latin markets in your area. I buy mole’ from a place on East 7th in St. Paul. The grind their own & keep it behind the counter so you have to ask for it. It is worth asking for

  45. 45.

    O. Felix Culpa

    I’m home with the flu – a somehow fitting end to 2016. We’ll watch The Ohio State University game because it’s one way to show Ms. O that I love her.

  47. 47.

    cope

    I made my Texas Caviar dip with black eye peas (for luck), clam dip and onion dip. The fridge is still full of leftovers courtesy of the visitors who have been coming and going, but are all, thankfully, now gone. I will mine some of those veins of gold for our nightly sustenance.

    I doubt that we will make it to midnight as we are pretty well hard-wired to collapse well before then but, who knows, maybe I’ll make an attempt. If I do go to bed early, I will NOT sleep through the night thinking that 2016 will be gone when I get up in the morning. I won’t make the same mistake I made on November, 8th hitting the sack and expecting one reality and then awakening to an improbable bizarro one in its place. If I awake tomorrow morning and it is Groundhog Day 2016, I promise not to kick the dogs.

    Freuet Euch des Lebens, everyone, it’s the only one we will ever have.

    cope

  50. 50.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @efgoldman: I’ll help you out with my saying “My Huskies” in a thread earlier this season. I did my undergrad at UCLA, so I’m a Bruin; I went to gradual school at Washington, hence I’m also Husky. I hope this clears up any confusion.

  52. 52.

    Louise B.

    Going out now to spend a fortune on Dungeness crab for our annual crab cake feed. Also on the menu: country pate with pear compote, curried carrot soup and a simple green salad. Panettone – Italian fruitcake – accompanied by a small glass of port for dessert. SO will probably last until midnight, but I’m usually done by 10.

  56. 56.

    Steve in the ATL

    @trollhattan:

    Bama seems unaccustomed to defensive speed

    Unlikely, since SEC defenses are speedy as well as big. Had no idea that the Huskies had a defense, though. I am impressed.

  61. 61.

    Ajabu

    Well, our gigantic, stupendous, budget killing replica of the Charles & Diana wedding (AKA: Our 25th Anniversary) is finally over. And it went amazingly well. My beautiful Bride was pleased with the result and that’s all that matters to me.
    As soon as our reasonably priced photographer sends us pictures I’ll post some for your dining & dancing pleasure…
    The weird part is the collateral cost. Because we did this whole thing on the other side of the country from where we currently live we have about 200 lbs. of expensive food (roast beef, shrimp, barbecued chicken etc.) plus 3 more layers of cake that we have to literally give away because we can’t take it home on a plane. Oh, well…
    Did I mention that my wife is happy? Case is therefore closed – my ranting aside.
    Just an incidental comment: This party was in Mobile, AL. The heart of the deep south. However, with 125 people in attendance I found NOT ONE supporter of the Shitgibbon.
    Of course, this statistic may not be entirely reliable considering that all 125 people were Black Folk.
    We tried to save you again but fell short.
    YMMV, but I doubt it.

  62. 62.

    Hellbastard

    Did my undergrad at the UW… class of ’98. That was right after the powerhouse years in the early 90’s. Alas, we can’t seem to get our O running on all cylinders today.

    Go Huskies!

  63. 63.

    Phylllis

    @efgoldman: Refreshingly, have yet to hear it from Muschamp.

    ETA: And Jamey Chadwell, the coach of my alma mater, Charleston Southern (a Southern Baptist Convention-supported school), doesn’t indulge either. Just talks about football.

  64. 64.

    ThresherK

    @BillinGlendaleCA: “Gradual school” at UWash? A decelerated program, or jinky autocorrect?

    New Year’s Eve here is taking care of an ill Spousal ThresherK, good takeout Chinese for dinner, and My Famous (Alton Brown’s) Homemade Onion Dip with crudites and Chicken in a Biskit crackers. (A very strange tradition, admittedly. And yes, they still exist.)

  65. 65.

    Steve in the ATL

    @BillinGlendaleCA: I grew up in SEC country, but only went to an SEC school for law school, and it was in a state I’d never lived in before, so I’m not a rabid fan. I mostly root for the SEC over the Big 10 because their fans are so obnoxious (yeah, I know, but OSU* fans are worse than any of ours!).

    SEC is all red states, though, and PAC-12 is mostly blue, so I pull for your teams when I don’t have a dawg in the fight.

    *I refuse to call it “The” OSU. Blow me.

  66. 66.

    debbie

    I’ll watch the ball drop and then listen for the gunfire. Last year it lasted 19 minutes, but I think the record will be broken tonight.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @Ajabu:

    Hooray! I’m glad it all went well. Frankly, it makes more sense to me to spend a lot of money on a big blowout when you make it to a milestone like 25 years than it does to spend it at the beginning. Young people should be getting married at the courthouse and then saving up to have a big shindig at 25 years.

    (We spent about $10K for our wedding 10 years ago, but a full 1/3rd of that was for a really awesome photographer.)

  72. 72.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    We’re getting Seattle type weather here in beautiful downtown Glendale, overcast and now it’s started to rain.

  73. 73.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Mnemosyne:

    We spent about $10K for our wedding 10 years ago, but a full 1/3rd of that was for a really awesome photographer.

    Damn, I should get in that wedding photography racket.

  75. 75.

    raven

    @Hellbastard: I scored my first hit of acid on what was called “Hippie Hill” right off the Ave at UW in the summer of 68.

    eta The day Bobby got killed

  76. 76.

    Shell

    I’ll probably end up watching the Twilight Zone marathon all by my lonesome

    I know its considered one of it s classics, but Ive always hated the episode, Time Enough At Last. You know, the one with Burgess Meredith who after a nuclear holocaust thinks he finally read without interference, till he breaks his glasses. Id hope when we have the Trumpocalypse, I could at least settle down with a good book

  77. 77.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mnemosyne:

    We spent about $10K for our wedding 10 years ago

    Damn, I wish you had planned our wedding. I (as my in laws don’t drink) spend almost that much on the bar tab at our reception.

    Lesson learned: don’t have wedding reception at yacht club.

  79. 79.

    Ajabu

    @Mnemosyne:
    The original wedding was modest. 12 people on a boat. Mama deserved this one.
    Our photographer was also awesome but I’m a West Indian so a price quote to me is the starting point for negotiation. He told my wife, “I wish I had your husband’s lip action”.
    I’ll take that as a compliment.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    This is them — they’re now one of the top wedding photographers in LA. They charge WAY more than $3K now. We just managed to hire them right before they hit it big.

    It’s quite possible that some of our photos are still on their site, but I don’t feel like poking around. We were at Neighborhood Church and the Rococo Room in Pasadena, so they sometimes keep photos from specific locations on hand so other couples can see what the venues look like.

  81. 81.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    Speaking of cameras, the kid got a Cannon DSLR, I guess to take her mind of the ex-bf. I’m trying to convince her to shoot RAW and invest in a Photoshop subscription.

  82. 82.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    Festering at home, saying goodbye to 2016 and the money we spent on the hotel/dinner/show/breakfast package we had reserved for tonight — my back’s still out of whack so I’m home with a heating pad, and our cancellation came too late for a refund.

    FY2016.

  84. 84.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Afternoon wedding, 40 guests. That cut way back on a lot of the expenses.

    My mom threw a separate reception for us in IL about a month later and that cost a lot more, but she and my dad paid for that, not us. My dad actually offered to just give us the money she was spending on it, but I knew it made her happy and I’m the only daughter, so …

  85. 85.

    M. Bouffant

    @raven: Whoa. It is a small world. I used to hang out there, ’67-’69. (Just on campus, east of The Ave., right? Don’t think I knew it as Hippie Hill, however.) No acid, but I think I bought my first matchbox of weed there (at someone else’s urging, ’cause I was the one w/ the five dollars).

  86. 86.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @O. Felix Culpa:And, because 2016 seems to find myriad ways in which to get worse, our cable connection has failed and the repair person can’t come until Jan. 4th. So much for Ohio U. football for the spousal unit. :(

  87. 87.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    @BillinGlendaleCA: Both wise choices. You might want to find the Kid a Lightroom workshop, or at least look up some good YouTube instructional videos — it’s not the easiest program to pick up on your own. I thought it was overrated until I learned how it actually worked. Now I can’t live without it.

  88. 88.

    Mnemosyne

    @Shell:

    Another reason for me to get LASIK next year. ;-). And, yes, as a heavy reader, that ending always bugged me, too.

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:

    Being the immature person that I am, I probably would have gone anyway and brought my heating pad with me. There are worse places to be ill than in a nice hotel room where they’ll bring food straight to your door and take it away when you’re done. But missing out on the other fun stuff might have been too depressing, so you probably made the right choice.

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    If she can settle for Lightroom or PS Elements she can skip the whole subscription thing. Scant few use PS’s capabilities and Lightroom catalog and batch processing are yuugely helpful.

  90. 90.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Mnemosyne: you were smart.

    Another lesson learned: don’t let Southern society mother-in-law plan wedding if you will be stuck with bar tab.

  91. 91.

    raven

    @M. Bouffant: Ever know “Cowboy Bob”? He was a junkie and a Navy Vet. We’d take the bus up there from Ft Lewis and, even though there was street dealing everywhere, we looked like geeks with our Army haircuts and Bob was the only dude we could find. Did you go to the Sky River Rock Festival and Lighter than Air Fair?

  93. 93.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Ajabu: It sounds like a wonderful gala, and your bride is a lucky bride indeed that you have your attitude. So some Mobile shelters/churches/medicaid nursing homes will be eating in style this week?

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: Please feel better soon. And my best to Iggy and Muppet, along with Mr. Mingobat.

  94. 94.

    Hildebrand

    I know you can’t really go OT on an Open Thread – but this isn’t about football, recipes, or other NYE related bits. I just found out that one of my former grad school professors has gone full wing-nut – white supremacist, Trump supporter, the whole shebang. She even posted a long-ass article in Breitbart about the wonderfulness that is Milo Yiannapoulo. What floors me is that she is just a couple of years older then me, has a tenured position in Medieval history at the University of Chicago, and was one of the most thoughtful professors I had ever known. How can someone go from being a careful historian and staunch liberal Obama supporter in 2008 to a Thomas Sowell and Ann Coulter quoting Breitbartian?

    A group of my fellow Medievalists and I were commiserating on-line today as we continued to discover just how far she had gone – just a ghastly gut-punch at the end of an already ugly year.

  95. 95.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA: I’ve got quite a few instructional vids that I’ve watched, so I’ve got that covered(though more with Photoshop than Lightroom).

    @trollhattan: The problem is that standalone Lightroom is expensive, it might have worked when she was a student(it’s alot cheaper). The subscription is $10 a month for the Photography package and you get both Lightroom and Photoshop(I don’t usually use more than ACR and teh Google’s NIK suit).

  98. 98.

    Mnemosyne

    @Hildebrand:

    How can someone go from being a careful historian and staunch liberal Obama supporter in 2008 to a Thomas Sowell and Ann Coulter quoting Breitbartian?

    Honestly, my first thought is to wonder about early-onset Alzheimer’s or another dementia. I still suspect that Charlton Heston’s sudden support for the NRA was at least partially related to his then-undiagnosed Alzheimer’s since he really did march with Dr. King back in the day.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    I can’t remember if it’s Pasadena/Glendale, LA City, or LA County that has free Lynda access, but check their websites. Any resident of LA County can get a card for both the City and County library systems. (In fact, I think any resident of California can get digital access to LA City.)

    ETA: Checked with G — it’s both LA City and LA County. The closest LA City branch for you is probably Eagle Rock.

  101. 101.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Hildebrand:

    How can someone go from being a careful historian and staunch liberal Obama supporter in 2008 to a Thomas Sowell and Ann Coulter quoting Breitbartian?

    Sometimes a series of mini-strokes (or some other trauma) can cause a major personality change.

    ETA: IANAD, nor do I play one on tv. I just have friends whose lovely parents underwent changes like this because of neurological trauma/disorders.

  102. 102.

    Hildebrand

    @Mnemosyne: It’s just damned bizarre. I read of few of her latest blog posts, and the intellect seems to be as sharp as ever, but jeez, the politics – ghastly and really depressing.

  103. 103.

    p.a.

    I don’t have cable, which is another reason to hate espn as they bogart the bowl games- not 100% of them but fuck espn anyway.

  105. 105.

    trollhattan

    @BillinGlendaleCA:
    If she’s going to dig in and use layers then PS makes sense and $120/year is probably worth it. Otherwise, $150 for standalone Lightroom can handle everything with no further expense.

  110. 110.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @trollhattan: The advantage to the subscription is that you get all the updates and you can use Photoshop if you need it, of course it stops working if you stop the subscription. Of course, she could get Lightroom and then use dear ol’ dad’s computer to use Photoshop. I’m also not sure that you can use mobile Lightroom without a subscription.

  111. 111.

    CaseyL

    @Steve in the ATL: *sigh* I started watching late, coming in at the start of the 3rd Quarter. Long enough to see that the Huskies offense couldn’t do anything, the defense was carrying the whole load. Turned off the game. It’s so sad.

  112. 112.

    Mnemosyne

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Then you should be able to log onto their website and use their Lynda account from the comfort of your own home.

    I have to wander out into the rain to get some supplies for tonight, so toodles for now.

  114. 114.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @Steve in the ATL:
    @raven: Yup, maybe next year; the dog paw tat on my ankle ain’t going anywhere. Actually, next year is the year UW is supposed to be really good. They’re a year ahead of schedule.

  115. 115.

    Steve in the ATL

    @CaseyL: my daughter just told me that she found a houndstooth shirt that she absolutely loved but could not bring herself to buy it because of the obnoxious Alabama fans

  127. 127.

    Hellbastard

    What else you got, 2016? There’s still 6 hours left in the year. You want to kill off any more of my childhood idols? Have a car crash through my front door killing my dogs? Reveal another Trump scandal? I’m lying in the gutter puking up blood here… feel free to kick me while I’m down.

  130. 130.

    J R in WV

    @Steve in the ATL:

    So once upon a time, a guy named Rich Rodriguez coached WVU. And then, after doing pretty well, he suddenly lurched up to coach at Michigan. That didn’t work so well for him, he apparently broke some NCAA rules, pissed off some of the highly talented players, who left the school.

    This was OK with WVU fans, who thought the way Rich Rod left WVU and jumped to a “big league” job at Michigan was, to put it mildly, classless and shoddy.

    In the meantime, we, the wife and I, bought some remote land in SE Arizona, and built a little winter cottage, with the help of some local WV friends, over several winters. We still haven’t spent much time out there, especially in the warmer time of year.

    Then one day we’re in Tucson, home of the University of Arizona, and we see a billboard with a picture of the new Arizona football team’s head coach: Rich Rodriguez. We just can’t get away from the guy!

    A friend in Charleston has a cute picture in his shop, of a homeless guy, holding a cardboard sign. Rich’s face is photo-shopped in, and his cardboard sign tells the world that “I have a God-given talent to coach football, and need just a chance to get ahead again. Can you help?”

  131. 131.

    J R in WV

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    You know there’s an open-source photo editing tool called Gnu Image Manipulation Program, don’t you? I’ve been using it for quite a while, it’s not quite as GUI as Photoshop, but it runs on computers using the Linux OS, in my case Ubuntu. And it’s both free as in the code is open, it’s also free as no charge to install and update.

    There are books and magazines about Gnu Image Manipulation Program, they aren’t free, but you don’t need lots of them. It deals with RAW OK too, and you can export JPG photos easily. There are web sites with instructions too.

  132. 132.

    M. Bouffant

    @raven: No, didn’t actually know anyone by name. Was but 13-15 at the time, couldn’t have gone to the Sky River Rock Festival and Lighter than Air Fair. Was that the one at Tenino? Ah, the Wiki (via Google) tells me the second & third were at Tenino.

    Did see the Dreadful Grate at Golden Gardens Park (FREE!) one summer. Stood right next to Jerry Garcia, who was just hanging out in front of the stage. He had some great green corduroy jeans w/ yellow & red paisleys. Funny what one remembers.

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