I like a good show as much as the next guy, but Betty’s right that Comey’s testimony isn’t going to add up to shit. As long as a dozen and a half Republicans in the Senate* aren’t willing to impeach Trump, which I think will be true basically forever, he ain’t gonna get impeached. So, Trump will be with us until he loses in 2020 (which is not a foregone conclusion by any means.)
What we have to watch for is that the noise that these fuckers make doesn’t drown out the signal. Adam has the signal – the Republicans are going to push through the death of thousands by the repeal of Obamacare. However pleasant the Comey sideshow may be, it is noise.
—————
* I don’t know the number because I can’t imagine the Republican House impeaching the guy, so the earliest this could happen is 2018.
jacy
You’re assuming that Trump doesn’t decompensate so much that he does something untoward — like stab Pence to death in the Rose Garden with a ceremonial letter opener while a Marine band plays in the background. Currently this is not out of the realm of possibility.
You’re talking about entropy — Trump is entropy personified.
hellslittlestangel
I hate to be pollyannaish, but it seems highly unlikely to me that The Orange Better One will still be alive in 2020.
schrodingers_cat
If the title of the blog post is joke, I am afraid I don’t get it.
Mark
Bit by bit his poll numbers go down. That can’t be ignored forever.
The Comey testimony isn’t the end of it. This freak show has been going on since the day the Buffoon announced his candidacy. It isn’t going to end anytime soon. The only question is what kind of crazy does he have in store for us next?
Ten Bears
Discounting, of course, the potential of a violent radical redistribution of just about everything.
TenguPhule
Or declares war on Iran.
In which case I expect his removal will occur a lot sooner.
mistermix
@schrodingers_cat: It was from a song I was listening to when I wrote the post. Seemed somehow appropriate.
James Powell
With all due respect, and in complete accord with your assessment of the likelihood of Trump’s impeachment, I cannot abide calling this noise or a sideshow.
It is beyond argument that the undisputed facts that we already know about this would have resulted in the resignation or impeachment/removal of any previous president. The same applies to any conceivable future Democratic president. That we know for certain that the opposite is true with this president and this Republican Party makes this an historic moment. We need to make sure everyone knows it, understands it, and responds appropriately to it.
cervantes
Yeah, it appears the Republicans in congress have decided to ride this horse over the cliff, but the crazier and more incompetent the administration becomes, and the more damage it does to the Republican brand, the harder it will be for them to pass legislation. So it’s not that it doesn’t matter at all. If the Pumpkin Panjundrum becomes so manifestly batshit crazy that they have no choice but to “25” him, which is somewhere within the realm of possibility, president Pence will be better organized, presumably, but still a very weak executive with little or no chance of election in 2020.
Of course we might not live through all that.
Jeffro
Just for kicks, some J-Rubs for everyone: Trump Might Be The Dimmest President Ever
“might be”???
TenguPhule
@Ten Bears:
The brownshits will always march in support of Trump.
Jeffro
nightranger
I hope Dems run on a “impeach him” platform and ignore all pearl clutchers running for their fainting couch saying Dems should just shut up and stop trying to obstruct gov’t. The same people who didn’t care when Repubs blocked all of Obama’s court nominees and were yelling “throw her in jail” over a bunch of made up BS and asking for Obama’s birth certificate and getting their panties in a bunch when he didn’t wear a fukin tie and put his feet up on the oval office desk.
Fuk em all.
Spanky
@jacy: Entropy is not chaos. Trump is chaos personified.
Of course, it could be a floor wax/dessert topping sort of thing.
TenguPhule
@cervantes:
Er no. The only roadjam they have is that they have the FC portion of the GOP house which is more batshit insane then the rest of the GOP and any potential legislation has to please them before its allowed to pass.
GregB
Any chance he orders a strike on our own military base in Qatar? They are palling around with terrorists.
Spanky
@TenguPhule: Only congress declares war, and they control the money.
The Thin Black Duke
@hellslittlestangel: Putting on my tin foil hat, I’d say that when Trump kills Obamacare, he will suffer a “fatal heart attack” in the Oval Office not long afterwards.
James Powell
@schrodingers_cat:
“Boyfriend” – Marika Hackman
Quinerly
McCain’s just released statement:https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=99CC344D-985C-4575-801D-9FBA8043A24B
TenguPhule
@Mark:
The market can remain irrational longer then you can stay solvent.
Mark
@Jeffro: That is pretty much the definition of what a Philistine is.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
I doubt it. They’d go along with war with Iran just fine.
Spanky
There’s more, where they again ask for money.
TenguPhule
@Spanky:
War Powers Resolution of 1973.
And once shots are fired, the GOP will never deny him the money.
Jeffro
@Quinerly:
Um no, McCain staffer, your boss’ babbling did not go “over people’s heads”. It bounced around the room, echoed through living rooms and offices across America, and left us all wondering if you’ll be able to prop up ‘Bernie’ (the movie one, not the Vermont one) for the remainder of his term.
TenguPhule
@Chris: It wouldn’t be the GOP that remove him. It’ll be the Iranians.
Calouste
So it seems that the shitgibbon’s lawyer more or less accused Comey of perjury.
I’d say I’m looking forward to the shitgibbon coming up worth evidence that contradicts Comey or testifying under oath himself.
SatanicPanic
@James Powell: This.
Chris
@Quinerly:
Yeah, I’m sure that’s what he meant.
Davebo
@Spanky:
That is beyond naive!
SatanicPanic
@nightranger: Don’t just hope for it- demand it!
schrodingers_cat
@mistermix: I thought it was some stat mech joke that I was not getting.
LAO
@Calouste: That he did. And issued a statement with 6 typos in it, including the misspelling of “president” — that, there, is some fine lawyering.
dww44
@James Powell: Thank you.
Regardless, I’ve been around a long time and I do not think that Trump, assuming he survives in the Presidency until 2020, will even be on the ticket. I do not think we will have to worry about Trump in 3 years. The current iteration of the Republican Party, yes. They must be stomped into the ground for the next few election cycles to cure them.
Kyle
Not to be pedantic, but the Senate does not vote on impeachment, so raving about Senators who won’t vote for it seems silly.
Barbara
Yes, bad stuff is going to happen and keep happening so long as Republicans control all three branches. And you know what else I found out today? Water is wet! I don’t know exactly what the endgame will be here, I do know that the more pressure is brought to bear from more directions the faster and more positive it is likely to be. It’s a really good thing the British didn’t just give up in WWII with the irrefutable logic that as long as the Americans stayed out of it, they were doomed anyway so they might as well surrender.
jacy
@Quinerly:
That statement has absolutely no relationship to what he said in the hearing. I call “damage control” by staff.
Chris
@Davebo:
This.
Anonymous coward
I really liked your headline.
Anyone who has raised kids knows what entropy is. No study of physics is required.
And if you haven’t seen it, Google “department of entropy”.
zhena gogolia
@James Powell:
Right.
The Moar You Know
@Spanky: This pisses me off. The numbers aren’t there. They might be there in the House after 2018, but not the Senate. IMPEACHMENT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AS LONG AS THERE IS A REPUBLICAN MAJORITY.
That people on “our side” (I hesitate to claim that because people who would fundraise and get people’s hopes up when it’s just not gonna happen aren’t ever “on my side” no matter what they claim to be fighting for) would indulge in such robbery is utterly inexcusable.
TenguPhule
@Barbara:
Well if we had the WWII RAF and British Navy on our side I’d sure be pretty darn confident too.
ETA: The Tories have gutted the UK’s armed forces to the point that they don’t have much more then harsh language to use against any actual military threats today.
zhena gogolia
@Barbara:
Thank you!
Chris
@Barbara:
Good analogy. Every time I’ve seen the trailers for “Dunkirk,” I’ve thought “man, they really picked the right year to release that.” That part of 1940 being probably the lowest point of the war for the Allied side, matches the current atmosphere quite well.
Barbara
@Jeffro: I guess McCain’s line of questioning was too nuanced for President Comey.
Rob in CT
Only by the standard of “will this lead directly to the impeachment of Trump” does this not add up to shit.
Unrealistic expectations won’t be met, nothing to see here? No.
The point is not to actually succeed in impeaching Trump and removing him from office early. The point is to keep pointing at the smoke, keep digging to find the fire. To fire people up. To win in 2018 – take the House. Then fire up more investigations. Sure, the Senate isn’t gonna convict. Make ’em squirm anyway. And use it for 2020.
The Republicans never let a “scandal” go. They gin up ridiculous nonsense and then hump it for a decade. This is not that – there’s no need for Dems to make shit up. What we need to do – all of us – is NOT LET SHIT GO.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
The Tories? I take it they don’t share their American counterparts’ “the Armed Forces must be gorged with money” belief?
TenguPhule
@Chris:
Bad analogy. More like the Russians trying to stall the Blitz long enough for General Winter to come into play. Because we sure as hell are equpped like the WWII Russians then we are WWII Great Britain.
LAO
This is why I love twitter:
The Moar You Know
@Quinerly: I hate the guy but damn, that is just sad. I seriously hope the guy is in a doctor’s office or ER right now. He’s not well.
Geoduck
Add me to the chorus of “Yes, he almost certainly won’t be impeached, but..” He’s 70 years old, overweight, by most accounts eats garbage, and is under actual pressure for the first time in his life. Plus, ya know, he’s got tissue-thin skin and an ego the size of a planet. His physical and mental survival until 2020 is by no means assured.
Bill E Pilgrim
The only caveat is the chance that Republicans decide that cutting him loose will be better to diminish the losses in 2018 that will result from any Democrat running for office being able to just point to “the party of Donald Trump” if he’s still in office then.
They’re not there now certainly, but it’s a possibility, and if it happens it will start with a trickle but then very quickly become a flood.
@Jeffro: It took me a while to grasp that Trump actually seems to think that if he personally wasn’t under direct investigation, then firing the head of the FBI to kill the investigation can’t be obstruction of justice. So all he has to do is prove that he wasn’t under investigation, and he’s in the clear. As always it’s his sheer stupidity that causes him more damage than anything or anyone else.
Quinerly
@jacy:
You should have seen Brian Williams’ expression when he read it.
Knight of Nothing
@James Powell: +1
I’ve said it before: no one knows shit about what will happen. We really don’t know where this ends. We need to keep hammering away at each and every weakness. And Trump/Comey/Russia is a big one for this administration. To me, believing it will NOT end in impeachment is as fallacious as believing it will.
I do agree, however: right now, the fight for PPACA is everything. And to make the point about not knowing in this context, who thought that five months into this administration, PPACA would still be the law of the land? Not me. We still have a chance to stop them from repealing it. But, as Prof Silverman says, we should walk and chew gum.
Paula
Republicans will impeach at the moment it becomes more miserable for them to back Trump than to support him. They will do what they can for as long as they can, but investigations are proceeding, the IC hates his guts, leaking will continue.
Trump’s WH is grossly understaffed, action ain’t happening, his lawyer doesn’t know what he’s doing. Trump’s name isn’t going to be “cleared” anytime soon, which means Trump will continue to be angry, will lash out, more people will quit, no one will replace them — its unsustainable.
Republicans will do the least possible as late as possible, but Trump will force their unwilling cowardly traitorous hands.
TenguPhule
@Chris:
They do. Which is why instead of taking care of the planes they already had, they decided to spend the money on F35s. Which won’t be coming into service until next year in dribs and drabs.
Meanwhile, they have two aircraft carriers without a single plane on them. No, I’m not kidding.
Their surface fleet is even worse off. Six destroyers that break down in moderately bad weather.
And a nuclear trident force currently spending lots of time in drydock.
The Moar You Know
@Chris: They don’t. The only people who share it less would be Labour. Heard Corbyn on the BBC yesterday talking about mothballing their entire nuclear submarine fleet.
My way of thinking, that’s the absolute last thing you drop, not the first.
dedc79
@Calouste:
This.
1) Pretty clear Mueller is investigating whether Trump obstructed justice in firing Comey.
2) At some point, Trump is going to be asked to answer questions under oath.
3) What can he possibly say, given his prior public statements (the Holt interview, and his press conference)) and private statements to the russians that were recorded, that won’t take the form of perjury?
4) If he gives sworn testimony that conflicts with Comey’s, Coats and others’ sworn testimony that’s enough to pursue a perjury charge and there’s nothing the feckless Republicans in Congress can do to stop that.
Brachiator
@Chris:
I’m not sure that the film will be a financial success, but I can’t wait to see it. It seems as if the subject was important to Nolan, a movie that he really wanted to make. Even though he’s got a bigger budget and using a bunch of noted actors, he is doing something closer to his early indie film roots. As a result, “Dunkirk” is really sticking out as different in this summer movie season.
And you’re right that it may match the current atmosphere. Oddly enough, I’ve listened to a couple of film review podcasts where the hosts have noted that the feeling of hope that they got in some of the scenes in “Wonder Woman” were an antidote to the political malaise that they are dealing with in the Age of Trump.
Quinerly
Turley weighs in on “Comey, the leaker:” https://jonathanturley.org/2017/06/08/did-comey-violate-laws-in-leaking-memo/
Mike J
@The Moar You Know:
Corbyn also said that he could never press the nuclear button, even if Britain were under nuclear attack. Which sort of gets rid of your deterrence no matter what the subs are like.
Chris
@Knight of Nothing:
Yep.
If there’s anything we should’ve learned from thirty years of Hillary witch-hunts, it’s that hammering your enemy with as much negative press is a good thing, even if you can’t at the moment see how it’ll benefit you.
Betty Cracker
@Quinerly: That’s actually a fair point. It bears little resemblance to what he said, though.
Mike J
@Chris:
The idea of impeaching a hugely popular president that won in a landslide is ridiculous and should never be brought up.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
I think that’s one of the reasons Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 is doing really well. Ragtag bunch of fuckups handily defeating the “perfect” genetically engineered assholes who are all painted gold? Yes, please!
Chris
@TenguPhule:
It’s occurred to me more than once that if conservatives were consistent on anything, the F-35 – a program that’s twenty years in the making, has cost zillions of dollars, for a still less than ideal result, should be the ultimate case in point of Government Inefficiency and why This Department Must Be Abolished, Or At Least Have Its Funding Slashed. I mean, imagine any of the departments the wingnuts use as their pet bogeymen pissing away so much time and money on a boondoggle like that…
Chris
@Brachiator:
I expect they’ll both be good for the mood, just in different ways – “Dunkirk” because it really matches it, “Wonder Woman” as escapism from it. (Still haven’t seen the latter – waiting for the housemates and me to find an evening we can all go together. But I’ve heard nothing but good things).
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
His personal opinion, not the party manifesto.
And considering they have no effective surface fleet left, thanks to the Tories. He’s right.
The UK needs to drop serious money on rebuilding their conventional armed forces. And the Tories sure as hell won’t do it.
Mnemosyne
@Quinerly:
Wow. His comments are a cesspool.
And he seems to not understand the purpose of being a whistleblower.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Because nuclear submarines are more important then an actual functioning blue water navy to you?
You do remember that the UK is part of NATO, right?
ruemara
@Spanky: I stopped donating to the left’s misery vultures years ago. Sorry to any fans of MoveOn. I’ve been skeptical on them and other groups when I realized they tended to lose and again, people weren’t educated on how to fight for progress.
Also, McCain is fairly compromised with Russian money too. Take a look at his 70th birthday party. https://www.theguardian.com/world/deadlineusa/2008/oct/24/uselections2008-johnmccain
TenguPhule
@Chris:
Too many parts farmed out to too many states. Too much money in it for them.
Rob in CT
@Chris:
They’re authoritarians. That’s what they’re consistent about.
TenguPhule
@dedc79:
5th amendment. I understand he’s familiar with that one.
Betty Cracker
Good news, if true:
rikyrah
FBI’s Comey raises the stakes in Trump’s Russia scandal
06/08/17 01:59 PM
By Steve Benen
It was a day much of the political world had circled on its calendar, and for good reason. As the investigation into Donald Trump’s Russia scandal intensifies, former FBI Director James Comey gave sworn testimony this morning before the Senate Intelligence Committee.
And what, pray tell, did we learn? Quite a bit, actually.
1. Comey thinks Trump is a liar. Comey’s opening statement called out Trump for making “plain and simple” lies about the FBI, and his testimony made multiple references to Comey’s concerns about the president’s habit of dishonesty, including the explanation about his contemporaneous memos: “I was honestly concerned that he might lie about the nature of our meeting.”
This may not have been surprising on a substantive level, but to hear a former FBI director give sworn testimony that the president cannot be trusted to tell the truth struck me as amazing.
2. Obstruction. Asked about Trump’s possible obstruction of justice, which seems more obvious now than ever, Comey twice said that was up to the special counsel, saying it’s a question Bob Mueller and his will “will work toward.” I’d love some additional clarity: did that mean the special counsel could explore alleged obstruction or is already in the process of investigating alleged obstruction?
Also note, Comey said Trump’s request about the investigation into Mike Flynn is of “investigative interest” to the FBI, which probably isn’t what the White House wanted to hear.
3. Consider the partisan wagons circled. Those hoping Senate Republicans might eventually break with the White House’s preferred script will apparently have to wait for some other day. GOP senators didn’t defend Trump, per se, but their questions once again proved that tribal loyalties outweigh practically every other consideration, Trump’s 34% approval rating be damned.
4. Comey made news about Sessions. One of the questions that emerged yesterday is why Comey assumed Attorney General Jeff Sessions would have to recuse himself from the Russia investigation. Comey testified today that Sessions’ role would’ve been “problematic” for reasons the former FBI director couldn’t discuss publicly. That’s a big deal.
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: He wasn’t talking about putting the money into the armed forces. Social services. Which, hey, that’s a great idea. It really is. But make at least minimal arrangements for your own protection.
If you have decent locks on your home you don’t need a gun. The Brits are perilously close to deciding they don’t need either one.
ETA: and yeah, I’d like our NATO allies (while we still have them) to have a functional armed forces.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Republicans lie.
And July is the Debt Ceiling deadline month.
Sab
@James Powell: When I wrote “an historic” in the middle of the night a month ago everyone ridiculed me. I think you are right in your usage, but be warned.
The Moar You Know
@Mnemosyne: You won’t believe it since you’ve been to his site, but he used to be quite sane. Like some others, a black president was just too much for him.
So he’s drawing the kind of commentor you get when you make those life choices.
JMG
The Trump-Russia thing is body punching. It doesn’t show up until the later rounds, but it wins a lot of fights.
Health care is head shots. People feel personal danger or more money out of their paychecks, and the blowback is immediate.
Good fighters can and do use both.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Their party manifesto does promise to fully fund their conventional forces. Which they very badly need.
Trident is a non-entity, Corbyn personally doesn’t like it, but he’s willing to follow the party’s decision and they’ve decided to keep it.
trollhattan
@Jeffro: Yeah, god help us if he has to dumb it down further still in order to really convince people how ignorant/incurious/irresponsible he really is. Dubya’s Nobel chances are looking up.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Labor wasn’t the one who cut police in the UK by 20,000.
The Golux
@The Thin Black Duke:
Whenever I see that phrase, I always think “hatal fart attack”. I think it would be a fitting demise for the Clueless Numpty.
Yutsano
@Betty Cracker: Would be nice, but The Turtle sets the schedule. Unless Yertle KNOWS the votes aren’t there the vote happens this week.
I expect massive parliamentary challenges from the Democrats on this. On. Every. Single. Point. Of. Order. Schumer is more than capable of gumming up the works here.
@The Moar You Know:
As someone with friends in both the Royal Army and Navy, concurred.
lollipopguild
@TenguPhule: The Tories have also laid off 47,000 police officers in England in the last 7 years or so.
SatanicPanic
@Rob in CT: yup. We need to still be talking about this 40 years from now. GOP has no room to complain about personal behavior, political decorum, fitness for the job, allegiance to the USA, patriotism, any of this. FOREVER. My response to any complaint about any Democratic pol is now going to be “you voted for Trump” “oh yeah? remember when you voted for Trump?” “do you mean, the party of Trump?”. No letting up. No forgiveness until they beg for it.
lollipopguild
@TenguPhule: If the British were smart they would get rid of Trident and spend that money on conventional forces. If their military gets much smaller it will cease to exist.
janelle
This. Though, a minor pedantic quibble – impeachment isn’t something that occurs in the Senate, it occurs in the House. While I have absolutely no delusions that the current House would be willing to impeach the sentient enema, I do think a Democratic majority House in 2019 might be willing to do so. But the problem is, even if he is successfully impeached, there’s no chance in hell of him getting convicted and removed from office by the Senate, even if the Democrats miraculously snag a majority next year – they would still need more than a dozen GOPers to join them to give the orange douchenozzle the boot, since a 2/3 majority is required.
I do still hope he gets impeached, anyway.
rikyrah
Comey: Reasonable to ask why Sessions, who should have recused himself, was nonetheless involved in my firing. #ComeyHearing
— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) June 8, 2017
My thread explaining why Trump admin was faking Trump/Sessions feud in advance of Comey hearing https://t.co/d1WTY4F6dz #ComeyHearing
— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) June 8, 2017
Chris
@Rob in CT:
Indeed.
agorabum
This is the just the overt, blatant shit he did to the sitting director of the FBI. There are so many other reams of shit that lay submerged just beneath his waves of toxic sludge. It’s the steady drip…and the ongoing investigation by the special prosecutor. Trump needs impeachment but many of his associates just need indictments. And that’s when the dam really breaks.
Also, don’t forget the potential of Trump resigning or just dying.
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: And yet the sociopath May will win this special election, barely. At least her plan to build the partei numbers will fail.
Given the latest attacks, I’m surprised she still has the support she’s got. Cutting 20,000 cops was insane.
Jeffro
@Quinerly: That’s a pretty lame attack…that he wrote his memo on a government computer (government property) and therefore he has released something that belonged to the government.
We’re talking about treason and obstruction of justice here, Turley. Try not to miss that.
rikyrah
MSNBC reporting White House sources says Trump “may not have known” the US has troops based in Qatar.
— Simon Marks (@SimonMarksFSN) June 8, 2017
Robert Sneddon
@TenguPhule: The two aircraft carriers, the Elizabeth class ships you mention are not complete and not yet in service. They are designed to carry F35B STOVL aircraft since they don’t have any steam plant to power conventional catapults (they are, like all modern non-nuclear warships, powered by gas turbines with electric motor final drive). They also don’t have enough surplus electrical generating power to drive electric catapults (EMALS) similar to the much larger nuclear-powered Ford-class CVNs currently under construction (which also don’t have any steam plant). Britain is now operating a handful of F35s for training purposes and OTU with future deliveries scheduled over the next decade or so.
There is nothing else in production apart from the F35B that can fly off the Elizabeth-carrier decks and do anything like the job they can do in terms of range, speed, weapons, sensors etc. The RAF will be getting F35s in part to provide cross-capability between the services for future needs into the 2030s and beyond. They will still be flying Typhoon IIs for some time to come.
As for the V-class SSBNS, we have four of them. The operating tempo is one on patrol, one working up a new crew, new equipment and procedures, one in drydock getting refitted and one as a ready spare in case the patrol boat has to be taken out of service for some reason. As far as I know that’s the current situation but SSBN operations are not something that’s generally made public for security reasons.
? Martin
Impeachment will only be on the table if the GOP get the sense that he’s destroyed the party – not in a PR sense, but in an actual losing seats downballot sense. And to be honest, the reason we haven’t seen sufficient political change in this country is that the stakes simply haven’t been high enough. That is, we haven’t gotten fucked so badly that we’re willing to toss out the old party playbook and be willing to try something new. Keeping Trump in office may not be the worst things for our kids in the long run (or it may be the worst thing).
Dem’s goal is to gain some measure of control in 2018. Preferably the Senate to block nominations, but at a minimum the House. If we can win back states, even better.
Toward my former point, whether or not California is willing to go to single payer or not is entirely a function of how much of an existential threat to the state we see Trump. If he’s bad, we won’t do it. If he’s catastrophic, we might. If you want the kind of structural change that something like single payer would bring about, you unfortunately need to be rooting for something just shy of the meteor. Congress and Trump going out of their way to fuck over California unfortunately needs to be our goal as well.
rikyrah
Kamala Harris: “The oath was to the Constitution of the U.S. Not to an individual. It’s completely inappropriate.”” pic.twitter.com/tDvc5zarLv
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 8, 2017
Mike in DC
Somewhere between 34% and 20%, the GOP will abandon Trump en masse. My guess is…27%.
janelle
@TenguPhule: Who are the 15+ Republican senators who will vote for his removal? You need 67 total to give him the boot. Maybe Collins and Murkowski… but the other 13+ would be who? If you’re expecting it to happen before the midterms, you would need at least 19 Republicans.
Major Major Major Major
@? Martin:
You and what waivers?
Chris
@The Moar You Know:
Well, don’t conservatives generally get a pass on all security fuckups because it’s simply presumed, as conservatives, that they are Good Patriots and Tough Guys?
Spanky
@SatanicPanic:
Never.
? Martin
@rikyrah: No shit. All he knew was that he didn’t have a hotel in Doha, so fuck ’em.
zhena gogolia
@Spanky:
Never, no forgiveness ever.
Quinerly
@Jeffro:
I agree. I’m a 30 plus year practicing atty (recently semi retired in order to give me more BJ time, but I digress). Certainly not my old area. In the past, I have had respect for Turley but as of late he grates on me.
Robert Sneddon
@Mike J: The British “nuclear button” consists of a brown envelope kept in a safe in the control room of on-duty SSBN(s). On good intelligence of Britain having been attacked by nuclear weapons and without communication from the (presumably destroyed) functioning government the Captain opens the envelope, reads the instructions written by the Prime Minister and carries them out to the best of their ability.
As Prime Minister I’d expect Jeremy Corbyn to instruct the SSBN commander to not launch their nuclear missiles under any circumstances (OK, alien invasion perhaps…) The PM’s instructions are never revealed and when a government changes and/or the PM is replaced the original instructions are destroyed without examination.
Rob in CT
@SatanicPanic:
With ya.
Which, by the way, sucks. The country could well come apart at the seams if our tribal sorting/radicalization continues (shows no signs of stopping). But I’m done bringing a spork to a gunfight.
? Martin
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah. Though, California could always step up and carve out Medicare as well and try and integrate that later. I mean, taking everyone 65+ out of the state plan would make it a fuckton cheaper, so it’s not like it would make the task any harder, just less comprehensive than we’d like. Again, a function of how desperately we want to do this.
TriassicSands
@Mark:
But they really don’t. They fluctuate between 36% and 40%, going up and down, often for no apparent reason — maybe just the differences between the daily samples. See Gallup Daily Trump Job Approval Rating.
There may be some specific issues on which his numbers are going down, but his job approval rating is remarkably consistent. It makes my head spin.
schrodingers_cat
@Quinerly: Turdley really likes T doesn’t he, just like GG. All these libertarian types seem to have a problem black President.
Bobby Thomson
@Yutsano:
Unfortunately, we have that camera hound Schumer running things. I’ve never trusted him.
Origuy
@Yutsano:
Pedantic historical nitpick: It’s the Royal Navy, but the British Army. It traces its roots back to Cromwell’s New Model Army. The RN developed from Henry VIII’s creation of a standing navy.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
The “Guardians” movies have always had a kind of anarchic cheerfulness, but you’re right, the defeat of the gold painted people of the Enclave is icing on the cake!
@Chris:
“Wonder Woman” is very enjoyable. Hope you get to see it soon.
geg6
So this must be the pessimistic “we’re all gonna die and you can’t do anything about it so you should just kill yourself now” thread.
Sorry, not on that train. That shit is about as edifying as the “Hillary: world’s greatest monster or universe’s greatest monster?” and the “Wilmer: second coming of Christ or corporeal embodiment of the Holy Trinity?” threads during the primary and after the general.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@TriassicSands: Approve/disapprove numbers don’t tell the whole story. His “strongly disapprove” numbers have risen sharply; his “strongly approve” numbers have fallen precipitously. His approval numbers among Republicans are down, too. There’s also party registration: the number of people willing to self-identify as Republicans has fallen as well.
See Nate Silver for more.
Rob in CT
@TriassicSands:
538 wrote an article (Silver) last week about how a lot of his support has shifted from “strongly support” to “support” – his base is eroding.
LOL, Cassandra beat me to it.
Major Major Major Major
@geg6: every thread is that thread nowadays, thanks to the actions of a loud few.
Quinerly
More J Turley (the law professor who used to call for the prosecution of GWB for war crimes for those of you who might remember him from Olbermann’s old show): http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/336967-opinion-sorry-dems-comeys-revenge-is-too-weak-to
Jeanne
What everyone is still dancing around is the pee tape, which I now believe is a real thing. I always suspected it was real given the specificity of its description. This wasn’t just sex with hookers in Moscow. It’s golden showers on the bed that the Obamas previously slept on. Now, knowing how much energy Trump put into denying it to Comey? It happened and the tape exists.
And, no, I don’t want to see it.
Mike in DC
3 requirements to get the GOP to get on board with impeachment:
1. Base R voter support for Trump drops below 70.
2. Legislative agenda stalls or fails completely
3. Stronger circumstantial evidence of collusion, or better still direct evidence of collusion emerges.
If these 3 conditions are met, and most elected Rs still don’t budge, time to believe the worst (that they’re in on it).
Brachiator
@Origuy:
Hmmm. Even the British Army has some Royal roots, and folded in the New Model Army according to the Wiki:
I saw a film today, oh boy
The English army had just won the war
A crowd of people turned away
But I just had to look
Having read the book
I’d love to turn you on.
TriassicSands
@(((CassandraLeo))): @Rob in CT:
I’m aware of the shift — but it doesn’t change who they vote for. Most of his supporters could get to the point where they don’t approve of the job he’s doing and they’ll still vote for him because they can’t vote for a Democrat.
How anyone, but Putin and others who want to damage this country, could support the job Trump is doing — he’s obviously incompetent — is beyond me.
At this point, anyone who still approves of the job Trump is doing can probably be written off…permanently. I hope not.
I think our best hope is that they won’t vote at all. And that would be good enough.
Certified Mutant Enemy
@Jeanne:
If the tape exists, Republican will try to rationalize it as not a big deal…
JPL
@Jeanne: If Putin is frustrated with Trump’s refusal to lessen the sanctions and they are released, I don’t want to see them either. I probably wouldn’t turn away though.
JPL
@Certified Mutant Enemy: Definitely. Trump must have been drugged.
Mnemosyne
@Quinerly:
White supremacy is a hell of a drug, and addiction to it can strike anyone, even otherwise smart people.
MJS
Yes, it won’t mean a thing, because everyone knows that the nearest parallel, Watergate, was wrapped up neat and tidy, and had Nixon out the door in 5 months. Or I could be wrong. Let’s look at that timeline:
June, 1972 – Break-in; November, 1972 – Nixon loses in a landslide, coincidentally 5 months later.
Wait, that still doesn’t seem right.
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: That and there is no hope but the possible outcome is a civil war, commenters/trolls.
SiubhanDuinne
@rikyrah:
Did they* mean that to be reassuring?
*(they = either the WH or MSNBC)
Patricia Kayden
@nightranger: Dems appear to be toughening up so perhaps they’ll figure out that you run Trump against Trump and Trump against all Repubs. Trump has given them enough material for years of attack ads.
Repubs successfully ran President Obama against Dems in the mid term elections so we should return the favor. Trump is much less popular than Obama.
Hal
I refuse to go down the “nothing is going to happen” road because it feels too much like giving up. Maybe Trump won’t be impeached, but who knows? He might resign because no one loves him enough for his ego, or maybe a 70 + year old who has to use a golf cart to trek around with other world leaders isn’t exactly in the best physical shape to be a US President. Or maybe, just maybe, he’ll piss off all the right people and they will decide he’s just not worth the trouble.
I know this has been said before, and I know it’s redundant, but if this were Hillary Clinton in this scenario we would all be counting down to impeachment and/or her resignation, and rightfully so. Trump and the Republicans can’t ignore reality and everyone else forever. Something’s gotta give sooner or later, and given the accelerated rate of Trump’s Presidency, I’m hoping sooner rather than later.
Major Major Major Major
@MJS: everybody knows that [whatever’s happening now] couldn’t possibly be compared to [historical precedent] because [historical precedent] was slightly different, man.
Yutsano
@Origuy: Ha. I was thinking I should have put Navy first. Mostly because my Army medic friend never has used the Royal appendage.
Jeanne
@Certified Mutant Enemy: On, no doubt they’ll try to rationalize. He got away with Pussygate, after all. But golden showers introduces a whole new big ick factor. I’d like to see Paul Ryan try to explain that one away.
Yellowdog
@Kyle: The Senate votes to remove him from office after he is impeached by the House. Think of impeachment as indictment and the Senate stuff as the trial.
ruemara
@Jeanne: I almost feel pity for those who had to see it and verify it. Someone asked me why Trump hates Obama so much, if it was just racism. I said, based on my experience with it, there’s a failure to live down to expectations. I’ve seen the shift from person who is perfectly ok with the other being a part of the group, to person who realizes that other may just be their equal (when things can start getting weird) to person who realizes that other might just be better than them (which can be when the hate starts to truly come out). It’s not pretty. And Obama made presidenting with style look phenomenally easy, humiliated Trump at the height of his birtherism crusade, then suavely stepped out to announce that he’d greenlight a raid that killed OBL and captured intel. What was Trump’s first move? To greenlight a raid that failed and cost servicemen their lives. He was angry and hate-filled before his run. Winning and being so obviously lesser? If he was any smarter and our system even slightly more corrupt, I’d have told the Obamas to remove their family, their children and their assets from the US. Trump will go down being not just an absolute idiot and conman, he will go down in history as absolutely lesser in comparison to the black guy, and even the black guy’s enemies across the globe now know it. Trump will wish he’d gotten his vengeance yayas out with the piss on the bed hijinks.
Jeffro
@Mike in DC:
#2 has pretty much already happened.
#1 will almost certainly never happen…certainly not before #3. He could be caught on tape talking with Flynn about what the Russians want and I doubt he’d go below 50% approval.
A few of these GOP clowns are ‘in on it’, in the sense that they know some of Trumpov’s folks were involved in facilitating the Russian hacking, working with Cambridge Analytica, working with Wikileaks, etc. And some of them also know about Russian $$$ flowing in and being laundered through various “Dark Money” fronts, I’m sure. The real problem is that so many in the GOP are willing to keep looking the other way, anyway. They really think it’s better to sit tight and see if Trumpov weathers the storm…if he does, great (for them); if not, they can turn around and be one of the chorus condemning him. They clearly have no principles and will turn on a dime (see also Cruz, Rubio, McCain, Graham).
Anyway, eventually #3 will happen, and then all hell will break loose. The ‘good’ kind of hell – the kind unleashed on Republicans and traitors (but I repeat myself).
Patricia Kayden
@SiubhanDuinne: On NPR, commentators mused that the Republican defense of Trump is that he’s too dumb to be intentional when it comes to any wrongdoing.
What a hell of a defense!!
Quinerly
Seems very relevant to me: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/hmmm-that-is-interesting
geg6
@MJS:
Exactly. It’s not just the youngs who have been ruined by the instant gratification of the internet. Apparently, a small but persistently vocal group of BJ olds have, too.
Cermet
@Robert Sneddon: Yes, I see that a British Captain would strictly follow any such instructions not to launch for any reason while knowing his own family and friends were just nuked …rather funny. Of course, our system is different (instructions are not in the ship but rather, order to launch is sent via ELF) but still similar in one key area; a Captain and first Officer can always fire regardless of a President’s wishes; one reason the only person that is armed at all times is the Chief Petty Officer.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Ever since the Brexit vote, we’ve discovered a lot of Brits are insane.
Quinerly
@Mnemosyne:
As I said above, I remember when Turley was calling for GWB to be prosecuted for war crimes.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Heck, the prospect of a good DC movie is intriguing enough all of its own!
jl
@Jeffro: I think crucial turning point will be solid evidence that midterms will be catastrophic for the GOP, and the House GOPers start to fear for their jobs. In fact, I think that is about the only thing that matters.
I don’t think the hearings were useless. Whatever the shortcomings of Comey, and whatever mistakes he’s made, he has at least an order of magnitude more credibility than Trump. So, no reason to believe he was playing some tricky game and would spring some cheesy bombshell today. He testimony supports pretty much what reports indicated all along.
Hearings still important since will make deeper impression with voters that Trump is a corrupt lying jackass unfit for office, and that the GOP will defend Trump no matter what. And something did come out that may be very important later on, which is that IC and FBI knew long before anyone else that Sessions would have to recuse himself from the investigation, and Comey can’t talk about it in open session. What would that be? It will come out publicly sooner or later regardless of where the Mueller investigation goes. More evidence that much of the ‘establishment’ GOP was involved in some dirty business with Russia. (‘establishment’ in quotes for obvious reasons. They whole lot of them are cynical radical authoritarian reactionaries working solely for plutocrats and corporations, not the populace. Amazing to think that we could do far worse than Dub or Boehner, but here we are, believe it or not).
Spanky
@Patricia Kayden: Ignorance of the law has never been a valid defense. Maybe not even for rich white guys, but I’m not going to bet the farm on that.
TenguPhule
@janelle: I expect Republicans to remove Trump on the first of never.
In the event Trump attacks Iran, I expect the Iranians to make great efforts at removing him and his immediate family very quickly.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Come what may, this is true. The narrative needs to built and reinforced that Trump and the GOP are evil lying bastards that deserve what’s coming to them.
Quinerly
Worth the read: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/trumps-lawyers-tale
TenguPhule
@geg6:
I take it you didn’t like Wonder Woman?
Betty Cracker
@geg6: I’m fired up about hammering the shit out of Republicans with the incompetent, uncontrollable boob they elevated to the Oval Office and taking back congress. Hell, I’m even optimistic that Trump won’t make it to 2020 through some other means, such as expiring on a golden shitter mid-rage tweet. But I don’t think Trump will get impeached while the Republicans control congress. They just don’t inhabit the fact plane where the rest of us dwell.
Josie
@Sab: Same thing happened to me. Where are all the pedants today?
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: oh, is this the movie thread?
@Betty Cracker: I would settle for them inhabiting the astral plane.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@jl:
I think we’re in that shadow realm described by Marsha Gessen.
Not a good place at all.
Quinerly
Digby boils it down and nails it: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-nub-of-comey-hearing.html
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Rs in the Congress are either afraid of the T base or they are compromised themselves or both.
jl
@Betty Cracker:
” They just don’t inhabit the fact plane where the rest of us dwell. ”
Convincing evidence that in 2018 they will get there asses kicked out of their cush jobs as plutocrat flunkies, and they’ll have to do honest work for a living might bring them down to earth with the rest of us. But barring that, I am afraid you are right.
But, I have to admit there is a chance even with that information, they may stagger onward like lemmings or zombies, hoping something will turn up. Most of them don’t think too good.They know how to stick together and follow a demagogue script written by PR hacks, but that is about all they know.
FlipYrWhig
@Quinerly: Bob Somerby (yes, I know) used to call Jonathan Turley the law professor who never met a president he didn’t want to see impeached. Funny how Trump somehow cures that tendency in “civil libertarians” and longstanding worrywarts about executive overreach.
Iowa Old Lady
I’m planning to see Wonder Woman this weekend while Mr IOL is at a bridge tournament. He’s not interested, which I may have to hold against him.
SatanicPanic
@Major Major Major Major: Yeah it’s annoying. I’ve said it enough times I’m going to start ignoring certain persons.
Patricia Kayden
@Quinerly: Didn’t you love how Trump and his sycophants (via his personal attorney) immediately tried to switch things around to “Comey is a leaker!! He needs to be charged with leaking!!” and “Comey lied under oath!! He needs to be charged with lying under oath!!”?
They really know how to spin facts to suit their purposes.
Joe Falco
So now we got cousin Cletus to investigate that them trumps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7qhVJIPfck
Josie
@ruemara:
This is so true and so sadly ridiculous.
Betty Cracker
@Josie: I ban-hammered the supercilious fucks. Anyone got a problem with that? (Kidding. Obvs.)
janelle
@TriassicSands: RCP says you’re wrong – he’s got an net -16.3% net approval rating right now in the aggregate of polls, the worst it’s ever been in his entire presidency. You also need to be paying attention to his disapproval rating, which has been steadily increasing. It’s currently at 55.3% in the aggregate, the highest it’s ever been. He does have a base of support of around 30-35% of the country that’s probably never going to abandon him no matter what, but you’re going to see his disapproval rating top 60% before Labor Day at this pace.
This chart shows that his numbers have been steadily getting worse and worse since he took office. There is a little bit of up and down on a week to week basis, but over the long term, he’s clearly sliding…
jl
@Quinerly: The Trump lawsuit lawyer is trying to confuse the public about what is classified information, and what is not. When Comey reported that Trump may have tried to obstruct justice, aka commit a crime, in a personal meeting, that is not a state secret. Comey can tell who he wants about it.
It’s a cheap stunt that might work with the less informed and concerned public for a few days. For most, it won’t pass the laugh test. Won’t work for a long slog to the truth with anyone but the 27 percent Trump racist base.
That guy looks like a wise choice by Trump for personal counsel. Hope he keeps up the good work.
Quinerly
@FlipYrWhig:
Thanks for reminding me of that! Too lazy to Google right now but as I recall back in Obama’s first term, Turley was critical. I think that’s when he fell off my radar. Is Turley the law professor who had an affair with a student and disappeared from the airwaves?
Kathleen
Attention Cincinnati Area Juicers! Alicia Reese is holding a Town Hall on Healthcare on Monday, June 12th from 6:30 to 8:30 at the Urban League, 3458 Reading Road.
Details
State Rep. Alicia Reece, of Ohio’s 33rd House District, representing areas of Cincinnati, is organizing this excellent opportunity for constituents to meet with their representative, along with several local area health and social justice organizations, to engage on healthcare related issues and discuss legislation impacting families and communities.
Participants:
State Representative Alicia Reece
Urban League of Greater Southwestern Ohio
The HealthCare Connection
AARP Ohio
University of Cincinnati College of Allied Health Sciences
UHCAN Ohio
For more information, get in touch: Office of State Representative Alicia Reece – 33rd Ohio House District 77 South High Street | Columbus, OH 43215 | Phone: (614) 466-1308
I’m headed to a gathering with Tom Perez sponsored by Ohio Dems.
Brachiator
@ruemara:
Short answer, yes, but exacerbated by the envy and stupidity that you so rightly point out.
I would add this to the madness of King Orange. Trump selected Mike Flynn as his security guy in part because Flynn hated Obama. Flynn had been forced out of the DIA during Obama’s term in office. But Obama, trying to be reasonable and adult, cautioned Trump against hiring Flynn. But Trump, dismissing a wise black man’s advice, elevated Trump and helped create the mess that he is now stewing in.
? Martin
I thought it was interesting that Harris wasn’t going after Trump nearly so much as she was going after Sessions. She wants him out. He can actually be charged for a crime.
My guess in all of this is that Flynn was the go-between with Russia and the deal was that they would swing the election in exchange for sanctions relief. Trump approved this but didn’t actually interact with the Russians. Sessions was aware of the arrangement and may have helped to bring it along. That’s why Trump is so focused on protecting Flynn, and why Sessions would have had to recuse eventually because his involvement was suspected/known but not yet disclosed. The parallel plan was that Kushner would hit the Russians up for money to save his project, and if Trump lost, he’d still come out ahead. If he won, he could protect Kushner. Not sure where Cohen fits into all of this – could be on either side.
Chris
@Patricia Kayden:
My private Twitter Wingnut Barometer (i.e. my uncle) provides the illuminating notions that Comey is a coward for asking a friend to leak for him, that the fact that he “can’t discuss things in an open setting” means it’s all just innuendo, and that this is all just about the liberal media’s “Watergate boners.”
(I don’t read the guy to find out what he thinks – what he thinks is a foregone conclusion. I just read it to know what the particular talking points of the day are. Like I said, barometer).
Mike in NC
Been raining here for four days and we decided yesterday to check out “Wonder Woman”. It was very enjoyable for a comic book movie, and the theater was mobbed with people who couldn’t go to the beaches.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: Exactly. Republicans can pretty much pass anything they want until the Senate or House flips in 2018. The fact that they haven’t done much with this power just shows how much they are in disarray because of Trump’s incompetence.
Josie
@Betty Cracker: Snicker
Spanky
@jl: Somebody’s Cousin Vinnie was exactly who I expected to show up. Of course, the Vinnie character showed more competence than the Mouth of Trump has so far.
jl
@Josie:
” Snicker ”
Your comment is a single word, it is not a complete sentence and there no punctuation.
You dang kids these days!
Quinerly
@Chris:
Wingnuts are loving the Lynch angle, too: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/politics/james-comey-loretta-lynch/
patroclus
The first exit polls for the UK show a hung parliament with the Tories not getting a majority!!!
Projections – Tories 314; Labour 266; SNP 34; Lib Dems 14; Plaid 3; Greens 1.
Robert Sneddon
@Cermet: This is why the Captain and EO of a British SSBN are carefully chosen (and they don’t need the threat of being shot by one of their subordinates to do the right thing). I understand that a nation that gave Oliver North, David Petraeus and John McCain high command has a bit if a downer on what any other rational nation’s military organisation might choose to do with respect to personnel selection but that’s the way the US does things. But, I mean, a general with a *publicist*?
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
It is whatever you want it to be thread.
Patricia Kayden
@Chris: Trump supporters are lost. I mean that in every way possible. There really is no way to reason with them and your Uncle’s conclusions about Comey’s hearing is just another bit of proof that Trump supporters will go down on the Titanic all the while singing “We Are the Champions”. Trump will, of course, hop off the Titanic and get on a lifeboat along with his billionaire grifting pals.
Huge sigh.
TenguPhule
@patroclus: If this is confirmed, you will be seeing my optimistic side from 2008 from here on out.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
They’re not lost, they know exactly where they are and are damn sure the rest of us do not.
Major Major Major Major
@jl:
Isn’t it funny how sentences like this invariably have a typo?
Robert Sneddon
@patroclus: If that prediction works out then Theresa May will resign as PM, no matter if the Conservatives get a coalition to form the next Government. Time for Boris Johnston to step up to the plate perhaps?
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: promise?
MisterForkbeard
@Jeffro: #2 hasn’t quite happened – there’s all the news about AHCA (and after that, tax cuts because of the ‘savings’ it entails) coming through very soon.
But alternately, I think #2 could be amended to “Legislation stalls out and fails completely OR Repeal + Tax Cuts for the Rich are passed.” In both cases, they’ve don’t have much use left for Trump and they’ve gotten the ‘hard lift’ bills out of the way.
patroclus
@TenguPhule: Exit polls are often wrong in the UK; sometimes horrendously, but major joy in Metropolitan areas for Labour and the Lib Dems are looking to gain seats. SNP likely to lose a bunch (maybe 15 or so); some even to the Tories. They’re saying results are going to be “variegated.”
Chris
@Patricia Kayden:
I’ve often heard people talking about the Korean situation wonder, when the Kims’ regime finally collapses (whenever that is), even if we can turn over a new leaf, how the fuck we can “deprogram” twenty-five million people who have spent their entire lives living in what’s basically a lunatic asylum and with zero bearings in the modern world.
I increasingly ask myself the same question about people in the Fox News bubble.
GOVCHRIS1988
@ruemara:
I believe Donald Trump wanted to kind of be around Barack Obama just like he was with George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and Ronald Reagan. You know, be the big dog around the important people, so to speak. While the others would indulge him by visiting his golf course and taking photos and listen to him bloviate, Barack Obama was like, “Nah, I’m good dude.” This, made the narcissistic twit angry, because “WHO DOES THIS N-word THINK HE IS IGNORING ME!” Its racism, but its also a sense of entitlement. This man SHOULD allow me to be around him, let me hug and kiss on Michelle, let me pet the children and dogs. Remember, he didn’t start the birther shit until 2011, two years after Barack Obama got inaugurated. I think he expected President Obama to grovel, to send his people over to Trump Tower to talk to the fat slob and work something out, stroke his ego enough for him to recant, but of course, thats not how Barack Obama rolls.
Barack Obama goes out there, has a press conference disproving the fool. Then, he and Seth Meyers lay waste to the troll RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. Everyone laughing at him, which is why Trump ALWAYS uses, “They always laugh at us, they won’t anymore line.” He’s really afraid of mockery and someone mocking him. The next day, Osama Bin Ladin is dead by Barack Obama’s order, and Trump is off the front page, while Barack Obama is on the way to sail to his reelection, ignoring Trump for the rest of his term or at least until he has to deal with him in 2016.
Trump backs Romney, makes a show of having him there, trying again to prove he is important because he may help elect the next president, but President Obama thwarts that by winning. Remember his election night meltdown that his now arch nemesis has beaten him again. So, in 2015, he runs himself, as himself. Against his enemies and with a statistical fluke, wins, with the intent of being better than President Obama. When Barack and Michelle Obama meet with him, he thinks that they like him, due to the fact that they are doing their jobs as president of the United States and First Lady, and that the transition is going as it should, with minimal hitches. In his mind, Barack Obama finally talked to him, and his wife talked to his wife. That gave that narcissist orgasms when it happened, its all he ever wanted. Its why he was complimenting them during that period up to January 20. Of course, Barack and Michelle Obama, the people probably hate his ass, but Barack and Michelle Obama, President and First Lady had to represent as that. In this case, they did what most black people do at work with people they cannot stand, I call it “Black People Work Mode.” We don’t like you, but we deal with you because of our responsibilities.
Of course, he still wanted to be better than him. Thats where racism comes in, because a 70 year old white dude that still believes without evidence the Central Park Five are guilty cannot stand a black man being better than him at ANYTHING. Its why “crowd size” happened. I guarantee he’s set his twitter to alert him of all of Barack and Michelle Obama’s moves. Same with Google and Facebook. He probably follows both. He hates them, but so badly wants to be them. Its like Single White Female, where Jennifer Jason Leigh tries to become Bridget Fonda. Its why he keeps trying to grab Melania’s hand when she obviously doesn’t want to. He wants Obama’s marriage. He wants the rapport he gets with world leaders that Barack Obama STILL gets. I mean, come on,within the last five months, Barack Obama has met with Chancellor Angela Merkel, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Prince Harry. Everywhere he goes, there is a throng of cheering supporters. Trump doesn’t have it like that. He wants it like that. Its jealousy. Pure, unadulterated jealousy.
Josie
@jl: I forgive you because you called me a kid.
patroclus
@Robert Sneddon: We don’t know for sure. If within a close margin, Tories could hang on with support from the DUP. But at this early point, it’s looking to be a cliffhanger. Stay tuned! Maybe we’ll get a dedicated thread??
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Yes. On my oath.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
@schrodingers_cat:
I agree that Trump is not going to be impeached. And crazy conservatives are eager to tear Comey apart. They think that Hillary Clinton seduced him with her liberal wiles and made him hide the info that would see her locked up. So it is noteworthy that in the hearings today, the Republicans just flat out ignored Comey’s warning that Russia will try to interfere with the elections again. He is a traitor now, and a Cassandra whose warnings are doomed to be ignored.
The Republican leadership is steadfast in their support of the Great Orange Satan. I don’t know if it is fear of the base. In fact I think that they despise the part of the GOP base that is not rich. They are poised to betray the hopes of millions if they can scrape up enough votes to repeal Obamacare. I’ve said it before, but I think that plutocrat money and gerrymandered districts (along with a little voter suppression) has convinced the Republicans that they are invulnerable. They have their eyes on more judicial appointments and a big ass tax cut for the rich. They need Trump to sell this to the idiots who voted for them. But even if they have to abandon him, they’ve got Pence to keep on keeping on.
Shorter: 2018 is vital. The Democrats have got to notch some big wins.
Patricia Kayden
@Spanky: Republicans appear to not know that ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law because they keep pushing the “Trump is too dumb to be liable” argument. Imagine anyone in their right mind feeling comfortable with a dumb President but here we are.
TenguPhule
@Chris:
And once we figure out how to handle GOP supporters, we can plan for how to handle the North Koreans.
patroclus
The pound is crashing on the exit poll news in the futures markets. Major uncertainty suddenly in the UK. The good news is that Piers Morgan predicted a 90-120 Tory seat win – he’s so often wrong, he’s kind of like Bill Kristol.
To remind everyone, there are 650 seats in parliament, thus requiring a majority of 326, but Sinn Fein is abstentionist and they usually win 3 seats, so 324 is “really” the majority the Tories need.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Bush Jr was in 2000.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Well that’s certainly an awkward position.
I know Dkos isn’t held in the best of opinions here, but isn’t that going a little too far?
Brachiator
@patroclus:
What? I read some pundits talking about the possibility of a hung parliament last week, but some stuff I read last night predicted a comfortable Conservative win.
However, for all kinds of arcane reasons, exit polls have often been wrong in UK elections. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.
The UK financial markets are quaking over the exit poll results.
The Guardian is reporting that the votes of the Democratic Unionist and Ulster Unionist MPs could be critical if the Tories come up short.
Chet Murthy
@TenguPhule:
As stupid as Teh [sic] Chimperor was, Lord Putinfluffer makes him look like a fricken’ genius, I’m sorry to have to say. The tolerance for stupidity of the racist/fascist electorate is distressingly high.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@SatanicPanic: Yup. Regardless of whether impeachment happens or not, we should continually and eternally push the narrative. We can do that while simultaneously fighting to save ACA, voter suppression etc. If the GOP can make nothing-burgers like Benghazi!!1! into widely accepted controversies we can do it with this. It’s a long-game tactic to permanently tar the GOP.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: They’ve jokingly called Kos that around these parts for years. It’s in the lexicon.
lollipopguild
@Chris: West Germany integrated East Germany into one country so it can be done but the South Koreans would need some help from their allies and the U.N. It may take trump falling from office to make a dent in the Fox News crowd but even then they would go right on telling their lies. They cannot help themselves, they have built an alternate reality for themselves and they have to keep it going.
Mnemosyne
@Sab:
I must have missed that. “An historic” is a perfectly grammatical thing to say, if a bit old-fashioned.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I meant the part about the Republican support. It was a joke. I was here when GOS was the byword.
goblue72
@The Moar You Know: Exit polls (Yeah I know) just released. Showing a hung Parliament, with Tories having a plurality but not a majority. Net loss of 16 seats by the Conservative Party and net gain of 30 seats for Labour. With Labour winning the popular vote.
SatanicPanic
@Uncle Ebeneezer: They showed us who they really are, it’s our job to keep reminding them.
jl
@Patricia Kayden: Yes, I was going to note that. Most people understand that if they break the law they will be prosecuted, even if the commission of the crime is extremely incompetent.
The average ‘lesser’ person knows that if you go into a bank and try to rob it with a defective water pistol, which falls apart when you pull it out, and stand there yelling until the police arrive to handcuff you, you will be prosecuted for bank robbery. Same if you try to rob a bank and the teller says they need a while to get all the money together and can you come back in a few minutes and police are waiting for you after you come back from your cup of coffee, you will be arrested
Or, if the teller says that they only have pennies, and police arrest you as you try to drag a hundred pound sack of coins down the street. You will end up in court for bank robbery.
All the GOP excuses are laughable, except to the hard authoritarian and racist Trump base. I’ll watch the Trump approval rating with some hope over the next few days. Being dumber than the average bear is not on excuse for breaking the law. The vast majority of people know this.
D58826
So listening to Comy and the GOP claiming that any number of news reports were wrong but they can’t say anything more because the info is classified. How convenient. With all of this information labeled secret and the ‘real stuff’ being discussed behind closed doors, how are the citizens to judge what is and what isn’t true.
Citizen Alan
@janelle:
That’s actually kind of scary to me because Bush had incredibly high disapproval ratings around Labor Day of 2001 and then a certain bit of unpleasantness the following week turned that right around into a 97% approval rating. At this point I, am absolutely certain that the entirety of the GOP is literally praying for a major Islamic terrorist event to hit the US as soon as possible.
Cermet
@lollipopguild: Sorry but the ONLY way those loons in the fake news bubble are re-integrated into our civil society is by their removed via death due to advanced effects of aging; luckier still, the vast majority of those viewers are in that class of too old and soon to improve the earth’s overall IQ and intelligence when they end up feeding the worms.
goblue72
@patroclus: Like the texture of a haggis?
patroclus
@Brachiator: According to the projections, Tories currently precisely equal Labour + Lib Dems + SNP. If that happens, it’s not just the DUP and UUP that could be relevant, it’s also Plaid Cymru, the Greens, the SDLP and even possibly Sinn Fein (who have never even shown up).
Chris
@lollipopguild:
I think I remember reading somewhere that West Germany was the only country, or one of the very few, whose economy was strong enough that it could take the shock of absorbing an entire country like that.
More importantly, though, the population of East Germany was nowhere near as isolated, cut off, controlled, and brainwashed as the North Korean population is today. I don’t think there’s any country in the world whose population lives in something as close to “1984.” Which is the issue most people bring up when talking deprogramming.
jl
@Cermet: Hate to be cynical, but they are easily handled: you throw some public money their way. They will still hate you, but they will quiet down.
SatanicPanic
@Citizen Alan: Who’s going to fall for that this time though? Democrats aren’t that dumb, and we’ve seen this before. Plus imagine the reaction- Trump will be making all kinds of stupid statements that will destroy any goodwill within hours.
Iowa Old Lady
@Patricia Kayden: He knew enough to send witnesses out of the room before he asked Comey to let the Flynn matter go. That suggests consciousness of guilt to me.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
Having exhausted your bloodthirsty fantasies for now, you’ve veered to know-it-all territory, eh?
Brachiator
While Comey was giving his testimony, Trump was pandering to evangelicals. Key points: he is trying to rally his base for 2018
Trump is, of course, lying here. He has won a few Democratic votes.
MisterForkbeard
@Mnemosyne: “Technically correct! The best kind of correct.”
D58826
@TenguPhule: At least Bush and those around him generally adhered to the norms of governing that have been in place for 200 years. Yes they pushed the limits after 9/11 but most presidents in recent years have pushed the limits. And Congress has let them
Captain C
@dww44:
FTFY
Patricia Kayden
@Iowa Old Lady: I’m with you. I don’t believe that Trump’s misconduct isn’t intentional, blatant and malicious. I don’t buy into this whole “he’s so dumb, ain’t he cute” nonsense coming from some on the Right to excuse Trump’s behavior. Trump is a con artist and a hustler and has engaged in intentional misconduct before and after he was elected into the highest political office in the land. He’s not going to change.
Mnemosyne
@Chet Murthy:
Remember that, as a group, these are the same kind of people who believe as religious dogma that there’s no way that God himself could be smarter than they are and create something they don’t understand.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: Is that a rebuttal or do you need to get a drink?
lollipopguild
@Chris: South Korea is a fairly rich country so that would help.How China reacts to a NK collapse will be the wildcard in the poker game.
D58826
@Quinerly: (sigh) He is still missing the point that the Clinton investigation was complete but the Russia/Trump investigation is still on going.
SiubhanDuinne
Is there going to be an Open Thread: UK Election Edition? Results should start coming in any old time now, but from exit polling it looks as though May may have lost her majority and there will be a hung Parliament. Should be interesting to follow.
TenguPhule
@D58826:
Your definition of norms and mine apparently do not see eye to eye.
Patricia Kayden
@Brachiator:
What siege against conservative Christians? Where is this happening? In America where the vast majority of the population is Christian and where most politicians are Christian? Can Republicans please stop it with the “Christians are being persecuted” nonsense? These are the same people who are quick to tell Black people to shut the hell up about actual, current racism but boy do they love to whine about nonexistent persecution.
patroclus
The first UK results will come in in about 20 minutes. Sunderlund – expected to be three Labour wins. But the swing will be the key – once we know that, we’ll get a good picture of what might happen. A dedicated thread sure would be cool!
D58826
meanwhile in the real world and how it affects the average citizen:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/08/house-to-vote-on-sweeping-rollback-of-banking-rules/?utm_term=.3d8feccdc114&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-politics%252Bnation&wpmk=1
geg6
@TenguPhule:
Haven’t seen it. I despise comic book movies, and comic books in general. But I may see this with my niece since she’s dying to see it and just had her sweet 16th.
InternetDragons
Just for the sake of…context, I guess…here’s the statement Nixon put out five days into the Senate Watergate hearings:
http://www.historyonthenet.com/authentichistory/1961-1974/6-nixon/3-watergate/timeline/19730522_Nixon_Statements_About_Watergate_Investigations.html
TenguPhule
@geg6:
At least tell me you like puppies.
MisterForkbeard
@Brachiator: The thing that really gets me here is that evangelicals are the people who should (according to their stated principles) hate Trump the most – he’s a faithless, womanizing asshole that steals, lies, and is obviously lying about his faith… among other things.
But then, that accurately describes many of the leaders of the Religious Right, so it kind of makes sense. He’s just more open about it. Even so, every moment they tolerate Trump they’re broadcasting that they’re all lying hypocrites who are betraying their own values.
Laura
@rikyrah: Kamala Harris: “The oath was to the Constitution of the U.S. Not to an individual.
And that’s why I’ll support her in any Office she cares to run for. I could not be prouder of my Senator!
Feinstein, on the other hand . . . . well, I’m hoping she chooses to not seek reelection.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Muphry’s Law is real, man.
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
Heh! No sooner do I ask than Betty Cracker delivers! Thanks for the new thread, BC!
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve always thought that “50% of Americans refuse to ‘believe in’ any form of the theory of evolution*” was the single scariest statistic about this country.
Like, that’s an education failure on a level with those third world failed states where large numbers of people still think that prayer can solve your medical problems. Or that their neighbors practice witchcraft. Or that you can cure AIDS by having sex with a virgin. Etc. There was no way that level of willful ignorance didn’t eventually come around and bite the country in the ass, hard.
[* Including “evolution happened, because that’s how God designed the universe.” As you said, the degree of arrogance WRT their own divine figures is breathtaking]
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
Evangelicals, of any religion, are some seriously fucked up people. They can be more than simple hypocrites. They see Trump as their deliverer despite his faults. The nuttier of them might say that God was using Trump to help them.
These people yearn for a taste of theocracy. They want to see women punished for their sexuality, prayer returned to schools, and gays and transgendered people pushed back into the shadows. And for some evangelicals, there is that taint of racism that just will not be washed away, and a hatred of Muslims. They hate Jews, too, but the Islamophobia causes them to pretend to care about Israel as ground zero for Armageddon.
Chris
@MisterForkbeard:
Yep. Because for the most part, “evangelical” is just a tribal identity. Even in the cases where it’s not just a polite word for “white,” it just makes “evangelical” itself a tribal identity, where all that matters is electing someone who swears loyalty to your Tribe in some way, shape, or form, rather than one of the Enemy Tribes.
For whatever it’s worth, of the few conservatives I know personally who actually are NeverTrumpists (i.e. did not vote for him and, more than that, have been against him ever since he took office), all of them have been “religious right” types. (In stark contrast to my acquaintances in the “moderate,” “cosmopolitan,” “sensible” East Coast wing of the party, all of whom did the McCain dance of wringing their hands for a few months and then obediently voted for him anyway). These people exist. But the vast majority of the religious right faction isn’t like that and didn’t follow in their footsteps.
MisterForkbeard
@Laura: Yep. I know there’s a few people here who don’t like her (Moar, I think?) but I’m not sure exactly why. I’m sure they have valid reasons, but as a Senator she’s been impeccable so far. And I’m not aware of anything from her previous positions that would make me dislike her. I think someone was saying that working for her (as AG?) was awful and she did a bad job, but I’m not sure.
Mnemosyne
@Patricia Kayden:
Trump is pretty dumb, and he’s the worst kind of dumb: the kind who thinks he’s smarter than everyone else because he’s willing to do awful things that never occur to normal people as an option.
Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Trump has bragged about hiring day laborers to make construction sites look like they were actively being worked on to fool investors into giving him their money. He publicly brags about conning people, and this is who the Republicans elected to lead us.
geg6
@TenguPhule:
I adore puppies! Especially my two current and my two dear departed.
MisterForkbeard
@Chris: Evangelicals as a “tribe” was most clear during the republican primaries, in which Cruz (who is pretty much their ideal candidate) was expected to get most evangelicals and ended up getting much less. It was supposed to be his bulwark against Trump, but it just completely fell apart.
@Brachiator: Can’t really argue with that. I have some evangelical relatives and in-laws who are lovely people but positively weird and backwards in their attitudes re: women, sexual choice, and other races. They don’t seem to live their principles in any way.
That said, I have some deeply religious relatives who are frankly fantastic and amazing people and who really live their faith. It’s inspiring, even to an unbeliever like me. One of them is even marrying a black dude next week, and her parents love the guy. But they don’t strike me as the typical Trump voter… or a Trump voter at all, actually.
daverave
@GOVCHRIS1988:
Righteous summation right there, GOVCHRIS. My thoughts on our current occupant of the WH exactly.
rikyrah
@SiubhanDuinne:
I was coming to ask this too.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah.
I think you’re both right. I do believe that Trump is dumb, much dumber than he thinks. I also believe that his conduct is intentional, blatant, and malicious. IOW, he’s dumb, but not innocent in the way his defenders who say this are saying.
Mnemosyne
@Chris:
I’m still surprised and pleased that my evangelical retired cop cousin not only did not vote for Trump, he made several Facebook pleas for his conservative friends and family to follow his lead.
Sadly, our other cousin and her husband voted for Trump in Wisconsin because of abortion and the Bible says women are not allowed to lead men.
StringOnAStick
I’ve got a relatively new overly friendly wing nut neighbor who first tried to invite us to the church he ushers for (we were leaving town for the weekend, but never would have consented to this). Yesterday his chatting at me was all about how the Lord has blessed him with so much work, or a guy he just did some work for who is rich because he owns some oil wells in Venezuela (hmm, highly suspicious on that one) and isn’t oil great? I had him pegged from prosperity gospel before this conversation, but originally I figured it was because he was new to town and trying to start up his painting business. This is also the guy who claims to have beaten Fuzzy Zoeller at golf, and Mr. Fuzzy told him to join the senior tour, oh but now he has this shoulder injury…. Just an endless supply of RW and now evangelical BS from this guy. It makes me avoid working in our front yard just to avoid another long winded BS conversation.
As far as deprogramming all these FOX bots, based on my relatives I’m fairly sure most of them will die FOX bots. The one winger I can sort of talk to has quit watching FOX or any news because he thinks it is all crap. What that means is he’s even more out of touch, will never know about the Trumpian World O’ Malfeasance unless it gets absolutely huge, and then will either go back to watching FOX because of it or will just vote on even less informed tribal loyalties because the news is all crap. A perfect circular world. I don’t even try talking about anything at all with my parents anymore; they’ve become such angry, bitter and just plain nasty people that it simply sucks being around them, all thanks to their all day ingestion of FOX Spews on top of a lifetime of being Birchers who care more about poor, poor Bill O’Lielly than any of their kids or grand kids, most of the latter of whom will soon have no health care thanks to how they voted. They absolutely do not care though, those grand kids have parents who made bad choices, so they all deserve to suffer as far as they are concerned.
Our electoral future lies in getting the marginally attached people to vote, not trying to deprogram FOX bots.
Chris
@MisterForkbeard:
I think this is a phenomenon we’ve seen again and again. Pat Robertson in 1988 and Mike Huckabee in 2008 were both evangelists who were basically running as The Religious Right candidate, and they both fizzled out and died (ending up in third place in both cases, behind perceived “moderates.”) Religious fundamentalism simply isn’t that massive an electoral force in and of itself – the only one of “theirs” who got anywhere was Dubya, and he was kind of a joint venture between the big business and religious right wings, that rare bird who could play the Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee roles and be convincing in both.
Ultimately, most of our right wingers only vote based on tribal membership. They couldn’t care less about the “values” part of religion, conservative or not. And that includes a very big number of the people in their pews.
zhena gogolia
@GOVCHRIS1988:
Yep.
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
Agree that there are some evangelicals who live their faith.
I mentioned to a co-worker watching some religious types talking to people, handing out literature. There was a homeless woman sitting on the sidewalk near a building. People walked around her. The women of the religious group and their daughters sat down and just were with her. They didn’t try to tell her about Jesus. They even asked if she wanted to go to a shelter and offered to drive her to one. But mainly, they just sat for a while and talked with her.
Laura
@MisterForkbeard: I have no complaints for her work as the California AG. It’s likely/possible that the complainers didn’t cotton to her support of Hillary Clinton in the primary, or possibly, her lack of a pens -that seems to be the most common of complaints against women in politics in general IMHO.
MisterForkbeard
@Brachiator: I used to really enjoy talking to the mormons who would knock on my door. Those people put out effort, and they were endlessly polite. They would absolutely engage in real discussions if you didn’t disparage their faith but approached it openly from a ‘this doesn’t make sense to me’ or ‘I don’t believe this is moral’ perspective. Eventually had to stop doing this as I didn’t have the time, but there are many religious people out there who are a huge credit to the human race. And the Mormons voted for Trump in very small numbers, comparatively speaking. They did a much better job of voting with their principles than other Christians.
Unfortunately, the primary ‘religious’ group in government and politics is the grifting Prosperity Church faction. They’re all horrible people – literally haven’t met one that I thought was a decent person, even in passing.
MisterForkbeard
@Laura: I’m somewhat partial to the argument about not running another woman for president in 2020. If just because it’s clear that it bothers a lot of people and fence-sitters, and we must get Trump out. If given the choice between an equally qualified man and woman for 2020, I’d probably go with the dude if just because of the smaller amount of negatives attached to that choice.
That said, right now the good candidates for 2020 seem like they’re all women. I’d happily support Harris or other women for the job if they’re the most qualified candidate. And right now, it looks like they are.
Brachiator
@MisterForkbeard:
Yep
Sorry. The US has to join the enlightened rest of the world here.
One of the reasons I liked Obama early on was that he had the audacity to challenge Hillary Clinton when she was the de facto nominee (and no one should take this as a knock against Clinton). I may have a slight bias against any older candidate, but other than that, the Democrats should accept that neither race nor gender should be an issue and move on. Hell, if I may attention to my own larger values, I even have to strike age (I am thinking this through as I type). There is no longer a reason to think of age, race, gender as a potential impediment. Obviously the country voted for Obama twice against whitebread candidates. There is no reason for the Democrats to hobble themselves by thinking that anything but the best goddam candidate period deserves a vote. Shit, we obviously have the worst of all possible worlds with Trump.
Applejinx
So is it true that they rolled back Dodd-Frank on a party line vote while everybody was watching Comey testify?
Mnemosyne
@MisterForkbeard:
I haven’t 100 percent made up my mind about the misogyny issue. I do think that part of it was Clinton Derangement Syndrome, so there’s still a chance the right woman with the right image could get through.
But we also need to at least somewhat mitigate our current voter suppression issues, or we’ll never get anywhere.
Chris
@Brachiator:
@MisterForkbeard:
Having dabbled into the campus religious scene in undergrad, I have a weird relationship with the religious right, in that I think most of them are completely full of shit, but it’s also the only place where I can still find conservatives (or, increasingly, ex-conservatives-yet-not-liberals) that I actually respect.
And it took me the longest time to figure out why, given that I still disagree with them all the time and still find plenty of their ideas repellent. But what I eventually realized was: it’s the only place on that side of the aisle where I can still find people who recognize that there are more important things in the world than themselves. I can’t talk about what we want for the country/society/other people with people who don’t recognize that any of these things matter (or even exist), and who have “I got mine, fuck you” where their moral center ought to go – which is what most conservatives are. (Whether they’re the rich assholes the media calls “moderates,” or the ordinary voters who frame it in racial/tribal terms as “I deserve this shit [because I’m white] and Those People don’t!”) I can talk about it with people who understand basic concepts such as “this is what I have to do, even if it’s not convenient for me.” Sure, it’s a very basic, even embryonic, connection on which to build a conversation about right and wrong, but it’s still more of one than I have with the rest of them, who barely even recognize morality as a concept that you or I would understand (or have rationalized through “greed is good” logic that their selfishness is morality and are determined never to think any deeper than that, lest they have to call their selfishness into question).
And, again, I don’t believe that describes most, or even many, of the religious right crowd. But it’s still the only place on the right where I can find such people at all.
Chris
@Brachiator:
That, and also –
Sure, nominating a woman/minority is a risk because it drives away a few white Democrats with latent prejudices. But by the same token, nominating a white guy is a risk because it drives away a few nonwhite or female Democrats who’re going “oh, great, another white guy. Who gives a shit?”
celticdragonchick
@Quinerly:
Turely carries water for Trump at every turn.
chopper
@Applejinx:
ayup
TenguPhule
@geg6: So we have something in common! I love puppies too.
mike in dc
@Jeffro:
Trump has slipped about 10 points in R approval thus far, from 90 down to 80 or so. It’s possible he can drop down to 67 or so with stronger, more damning evidence(combined with some unpopular policies). That would jeopardize the Republicans’ majorities, forcing them to push their equivocation closer to condemnation.
The major prize for the legislative agenda is a package of permanent tax cuts for rich folks and corporations. If anything scuttles that, they’re going to be pissed.
The kind of evidence that would fulfill #3: actual transcripts of conversations between Trump associates and Russian agents; a plea deal and confession by Flynn and/or Manafort, directly implicating Trump; alternatively, filling in the blanks with circumstantial evidence tying together disparate threads in this conspiracy.
An x-factor would be Trump unilaterally lifting sanctions on Russia after finally meeting Putin this summer. That would be hard to spin.
MisterForkbeard
@Brachiator: No argument that misogyny really shouldn’t be an issue and we shouldn’t pander to it. That said, misogyny definitely exists and it was a contributing factor to Hillary’s defeat.
From a practical evaluation standpoint, if I saw two candidates and each were exactly the same but one was male and one was female, I’d probably go with the male against Trump purely because the world can’t afford to lose that election, and removing a negative (misogyny) is helpful.
From an even more practical standpoint, it’s entirely unlikely that we ever get two candidates exactly as good, so that analysis won’t come into play. For example, I preferred Hillary over Bernie because she was a better candidate and generally more competent. For the next election, the only people I’m really aware of that are plausible l are Harris, Booker, and a few others… but so far, the female candidates are better than the male ones by a fair bit.
Uncle Cosmo
@Major Major Major Major:
Typographically they’re nearly there, inasmuch as they already swarm in the asshole plane…
D58826
A few thoughts on all of coverage today.
1. Der Fuhrer has made it a central part of his campaign and now administration that there is massive voter fraud. He has put the VP in charge of a program to investigate and fix the problem of voter fraud. For the sake of the post I’m not making any value judgment at this point on the issue of voter fraud.
2. On the other hand Der Fuhrer seems to have wanted to shutdown the Russian probe, seems ambivalent as to whither it is the Russians, the Chinese or some 400 lb kid who is behind the hacking. But, at least in public, he has made no effort to have his administration begin to build the necessary firewalls and systems to prevent our elections from being hacked (even if it is some 400 lb kid).
What is wrong with that picture.
And to comment on Der Fuhrer’s lawyer’s contention that administration members owe their loyalty to the President. NO NO NO. They own their loyalty to the constitution.
MCA1
@StringOnAStick: Immediate electoral future, yes. Longer term, though, not only as a matter of Democratic Party electoral competitiveness, but also as a matter of the survival of the republic, the scourge of Fox News and its ilk needs to be dealt with somehow. I agree that a lot of their zombies have had the propaganda and tribalism burned so deeply into their skulls that they’re hopeless causes and basically unreachable. You’re right that deprogramming isn’t the answer. But right wing media will keep on indoctrinating more and more and more over time. They’ve divided the country in half and turned politics into a neverending Red Sox – Yankees series, and it’ll stay that way until we collapse or something changes in our media model and how it treats politics.
moops
While all the poo is being flung at Trump, nothing will change. The investigations have to go after House and Senate Republicans. The GOP rallies around their President. They do NOT rally around their Party members. There are severe divisions in the seated members. So, who is exposed here? Who holding elected office was party to the Russia-tainted Trump transition team or the GOP election apparatus?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-alleged-russian-hacker-teamed-up-with-florida-gop-operative-1495724787
Those threads need to be followed. Is Ryan culpable? McConnell? Did Nunes know something and fail to act on it?
manyakitty
@Cermet: Eh, lots of them will lose their health care and die sooner, so it becomes a self-cleaning system.
moops
I was thinking that there are a few things that make sense when put together:
1. With the GOP loudmouths, it is always projection. The podium-pounding family-values demagogue is often a serial adulterer or having gay hookups. So, you have a strident President and Vice President haranguing us about election fraud… The previous administration went after ACORN, a voter registration NGO.
2. Russian hackers hacked the DNC, and attempted to hack the voter registration part of the election machinery.
3. The Trump transition team and the Russians have an unusual amount of connection, which they lie about and try to thwart investigation into.
Doug!
I agree.
No One You Know
@MisterForkbeard: Once again, proving that any man is better than any woman, because we have to pander to the worst among us?
When do you think “they” will be ready to recognize that competence isn’t gender-specific?
A woman already won the popular vote. The problem is demonstrably not gender.
Grrr.
Peale
@Applejinx: yep. But no worries, it’s apparently DOA in the senate. I heard quotes from GOP senators on that and of course they wouldn’t lie.
On the plus side, it will allow them to defund the CFPB so that coundray would be available to run for office. He’ll be fired as soon as Trump signs it. On the other plus side, if it does pass on party line votes, it will give progressives a chance to blame democrats for not stopping it. That’s always fun.
It does allow executives of failed financial institutions the right to keep their bonuses, which was the real issue. I think that pretty much seals the fate of the industry, though. If the industry teeters and fails again (which they will), that provision alone will probably prevent another bailout.