Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Everybody saw this coming.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

People are complicated. Love is not.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

Infrastructure week. at last.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

No one could have predicted…

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

In my day, never was longer.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Don't Mourn, Organize / Open Thread: As American As… A(nother) Mass Shooting

Open Thread: As American As… A(nother) Mass Shooting

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Mr. Pierce, at Esquire:

…How can this happen here? Because this is the United States of America in 2017, kids. It Can Happen anywhere. The suburbs are not sanctuaries. The ballfields are not sanctuaries. There is no big beautiful wall with big beautiful doors that will keep this kind of thing out, and keep all the Right People safe. There are no Right People who get shot. There are no Wrong People who get shot. Stop trying to convince us that there are. There are just victims and potential victims. And there are guns, too damn many guns too easily obtained…

… Violence doesn’t “intrude” on everyday life in America. Violence is a part of everyday life in America. A little more than a week ago, five people were shot to death in warehouse in Orlando. Is a warehouse in Orlando less innocent than a Virginia ballfield? Is a disgruntled worker taking his mad vengeance less of a demonstration of a country unhinged than a home-inspection specialist who fried his brain over politics? Is somebody who wounds over politics a worse murderer than someone who kills because he got fired? I admire the ability of anyone who can make that measured a moral choice.

On the whole, people shouldn’t get shot. They shouldn’t get shot in the streets. They shouldn’t get shot in school. They shouldn’t get shot in the workplace. They shouldn’t get shot while carrying snack food in the “wrong” neighborhood, and they shouldn’t get shot while they’re trying to surrender. They shouldn’t get shot while dancing in a nightclub. And they shouldn’t get shot on the ballfield on a spring morning.

In the main, one victim is not more “innocent”—and, thus, of more value—than any other one. Their occupation shouldn’t matter. Their politics shouldn’t matter. There is a violence inherent in the country’s history and there is a wildness present in its soul and, on occasion, both of these surface more clearly than is usual. Technology has made the violence more lethal and the wildness more general. The uniquely American conflation of innocence with hubris is a luxury we can no longer afford.

I don’t drink, not because of some philosophical commitment to sobriety, but because my family has a history of terrible things happening when we demonstrate just how much we can (can’t) handle our booze. Maybe Americans should consider that, given our history, a little judicious self-restraint in the firearms area might be a lifestyle improvement…

Reader Interactions

80Comments

  1. 1.

    Robin G.

    I feel like I should feel worse for these guys, but they are literally the only ones with the power to make events like this slow down. What happened today could have NOT happened if they, they personally, had taken action. So… live by the A+ NRA rating, die by the A+ NRA rating.

  3. 3.

    Cacti

    @Robin G.:

    I feel like I should feel worse for these guys, but they are literally the only ones with the power to make events like this slow down. What happened today could have NOT happened if they, they personally, had taken action. So… live by the A+ NRA rating, die by the A+ NRA rating.

    Steve Scalise voted to put the gun in the hand of his attacker.

    I’ll save my tears for those who didn’t.

  4. 4.

    Hob

    Also this morning: mass shooting in San Francisco, a block from where I work. An employee at a UPS facility killed three people plus himself and wounded two others. Handgun or possibly multiple handguns.

  5. 5.

    clay

    From WaPo:

    The special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russia’s role in the 2016 election is interviewing senior intelligence officials as part of a widening probe that now includes an examination of whether President Trump attempted to obstruct justice, officials said.

    The move by Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III to investigate Trump’s own conduct marks a major turning point in the nearly year-old FBI investigation, which until recently focused on Russian meddling during the presidential campaign and on whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin. Investigators have also been looking for any evidence of possible financial crimes among Trump associates, officials said.

  6. 6.

    ThresherK

    Everyone in the press is basically overloading the phone lines at Gabby Giffords’ house, right?

    Right?

  7. 7.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?

    @Robin G.: Don’t worry, they’ll just pack heat during sessions so they can waste some Demonrats

  8. 8.

    lamh36

    Ugh…the right is already trying to milk this thing for all it’s worth. Glad everyone is ok. I’m done talking bout it mostly, but at the very least, does this mean Dems can shut it about trying to feel the pain of angry white men?

    Also based on some posts on my facebook page, it’s amazing to me how some of foks are so naive and do not realize the climate of hate and anger that has been stewing from white people since the election of Cheeto Prez…??

  9. 9.

    Jeffro

    Why…almost like I hoped for in an earlier thread…it’s almost like the actual numbers behind our Gunz-Happy nation might just get out…

    30k dead a year. 2/3 of those gun suicides. You’d think at some point the GOP might have a ‘Mary Fisher moment’ and realize – contra Fox News – that it’s not just gang-bangers in Chicago and liberal assassins in Alexandria who are dying here.

  10. 10.

    sloan

    I’m reading comments from Republicans who survived an assassination attempt today: “we were sitting ducks! …. there was nowhere to run!”

    WTF did they think it was like in that situation?

    Did they actually believe all of that “good guy with a gun” bullshit?

    Rand Paul admitted it’s a fluke he’s alive because they were all unarmed and Capitol Police only happened to be there because Scalise is a member of the house leadership.

  11. 11.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    I guess now, 2nd Amendment solutions aren’t so great. I mean, they were really in vogue up until January, many actual Republicans espoused them in their campaigns, including the current occupant of the White House. I will say that the Republican’s wailing and gnashing of teeth over this is a little over the top.

  12. 12.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Too many of us love guns more than our own children, or actually, life itself.

    The “2nd Amendment Solution” is great until it’s applied to a bunch of Republicans.

  14. 14.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @Hob: Yeah, our dinky mass shooting in SF is barely sticking its nose up over the fold in most news coverage because there’s so much other crazy stupid shit going on. Of course, pace Mr. Pierce, the shooting of brown people/people in brown is not news.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    @clay: it’s investigations, all the way down!

    They better staff up, there’s a helluva a lot to look into. I’ll know they’ve got it all covered when Trumpov gets hit with additional indictments for money laundering activities back in the early 2000’s…

  19. 19.

    lamh36

    He’s the Rep from my state. Steve Scalise and those folks here who like him are racist fucks

    @Freeyourmindkid
    I’ll keep Steve Scalise in my prayers but he’ll have to take a place in the queue behind the people who will lose their healthcare .

  20. 20.

    Roger Moore

    @Robin G.:

    So… live by the A+ NRA rating, die by the A+ NRA rating.

    None of them actually died by it this time, so it’s all good. I just wish more of them could have Dianne Feinstein’s reaction to being on the scene of a multiple shooting.

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    @Hob:

    Yep. We had a successful mass shooter in SF and an unsuccessful (so far) one in DC, so of course the 24/7 coverage is of the D.C. one.

    (I say “so far” because apparently some of the D.C. victims are still in critical condition.)

  22. 22.

    khead

    There are many memories from this day we will want to forget, and many images we will not want to see again. But there is one image in particular that this House should keep. And that is a photo I saw of our Democratic colleagues gathered in prayer this morning after hearing the news.

    Feel free to call me a cynic, but this quote from Paul Ryan sounds more like amazement that Democrats would actually pray – as opposed to a “spot on speech“.

  24. 24.

    Jeffro

    I had an odd thought: what if I were to change parties and start offering myself up to news orgs as a “Republican activist”, pushing the GOP to do some common-sense things for once? Nothing crazy, just things that even a majority of the Repugs want to happen or not happen (like not pass the AHCA, like passing background check legislation and closing the gun-show loophole, etc)?

    Hmm…

  26. 26.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @khead: I won’t call you a cynic, but this is ZEGS cynically issuing a faith-based dogwhistle that Democrats can’t really be praying sincerely.

  27. 27.

    lamh36

    @EmmyA2
    Emmy Bengtson Retweeted Matt Laslo
    Old enough to remember a certain president being mocked by some in the right wing for crying over 20 murdered 6- and 7-year-old children

    @MattLaslo
    You rarely see lawmakers cry. I’ve talked to three Republicans in the past half hour who all broke down at one point in the interview

  28. 28.

    bystander

    I see everybody making nice on the teevee. Meh. I wish I thought this would signify anything other than another opportunity for spewing peabrained nonsense by NRA paid operatives.

  29. 29.

    Jeffro

    @clay: from TPM:

    Zero to Obstruction in Under 5 Months
    By JOSH MARSHALL Published JUNE 14, 2017 6:35 PM
    This seemed pretty clear based on circumstantial evidence and James Comey’s testimony last week. But The Washington Post is reporting that Special Counsel Robert Mueller is now investigating President Trump for possible obstruction of justice. That’s zero to obstruction in under 5 months, amazing and genuinely impressive in the sense of achievement in corrupt behavior and malicious intent.

    Donald Trump. He’s doing great work. And people are noticing.

    ouch!!

  32. 32.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    As has been observed many times before, Republicans only give a shit when it happens to them or someone they personally know. And sometimes not even then.

  33. 33.

    lamh36

    @AP 13m13 minutes ago
    BREAKING: US official: DC police to charge 12 Turkish security agents related to violence in Washington during Erdogan’s visit.

  34. 34.

    different-church-lady

    Meanwhile, Mueller maintains focus:

    Special counsel is investigating Trump for possible obstruction of justice, officials say (WaPo)

  35. 35.

    bystander

    @khead: I loved Ryan’s comment today about how an attack on one of them is an attack on them all. He failed to finish the thought: Unless of course the attacker is Vladimir Putin.

  38. 38.

    sharl

    I’m already a bit humbly respectful of a London firefighter whose chosen Twitter account name is @CrispyMick (for all I know he might be a shithead; gotta respect the grim humor though).

    He apparently worked that huge fire last night that made international news:

    You know it’s not going to be good when your told to write your name on you helmet before you go in!

    He certainly knew how to tell off a tabloid that asked to use the photo of his helmet:

    Nope… Not in in your shitrag

    Good on ya, CrispyMick, and glad to see you still walk among us.

  39. 39.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    In past mass shootings (Virginia Tech/Aurora) republicans gleefully dumped on students/young people for not rushing the shooter, calling the victims “cowards”.

    Here was their big chance to rush a shooter and of course they didn’t.

  40. 40.

    Hungry Joe

    From Salon: “Right-wing Iowa Republican Rep. Steve King did not attend Wednesday’s practice but traveled to the baseball field after the shooting to tell the gathered media that ‘the violence is appearing in the streets, and it’s coming from the left’ … Later on Fox News, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said the shooting was ‘part of a pattern’ of what he called ‘an increasing intensity of hostility on the left.’ ”

  41. 41.

    trollhattan

    Can this goddamn day get any goddamn weirder? So glad you asked.

    Officials on Wednesday are responding to a “real world security incident” at Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield.

    A Facebook post around 3:30 p.m. advised people to avoid the area so emergency responders can do their jobs. People were also urged to shelter in place and asked to lock doors and windows.

    The facility’s main gate was closed, Fairfield police wrote on Twitter, and social media users reported an alleged active shooter situation. The base is asking people to follow their updates on Facebook, where an official post from Travis Air Base officials says:

    “Travis Air Force Base is currently responding to a real world security incident. More details will be released as they become available. The public is being asked to stay away from the base to ensure emergency responders can respond accordingly.”

  42. 42.

    Gator90

    So can we expect a law permitting unfettered possession of firearms in the Capitol Building? Moar gunz!!

  43. 43.

    Mnemosyne

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Here was their big chance to rush a shooter and of course they didn’t.

    Good point. Where’s Megan McArdle to tell us these Republican congressmen are cowards for not rushing an armed gunman the way she wanted 6-year-olds to do?

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
    Students in Oregon can pack heat on college campuses, and some did at Umpqua Community College the day of their massacre. To a one they were afraid to join in the firefight for fear of getting shot by SWAT officers. So there’s that.

  45. 45.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Hungry Joe:

    “Right-wing Iowa Republican Rep. Steve King did not attend Wednesday’s practice but traveled to the baseball field after the shooting to tell the gathered media that ‘the violence is appearing in the streets, and it’s coming from the left’ … Later on Fox News, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said the shooting was ‘part of a pattern’ of what he called ‘an increasing intensity of hostility on the left.’ ”

    So much for fucking unity.

  46. 46.

    Jeffro

    Twitter going nuts that from here on out the president* most certainly IS under investigation, with financial crimes being a major focus.

    What’s that saying again (Adam, and others)? Oh, right…FOLLOW THE MONEY.

  47. 47.

    efgoldman

    @debbie:

    I wonder if the GOP Congress will reconsider the bill they passed a couple months ago reinstating the right of the mentally ill to purchase guns.

    I didn’t know you were a comedienne. Are you doing a standup club tour?

  48. 48.

    sharl

    @Hungry Joe: These people are what they are, as are the media who continue to give them camera and microphone time.

    I tend to be more familiar with Newt; he has a history of this sort of thing, e.g., A Trip Down Memory Lane With Newt Gingrich (2011). I don’t have strong feelings one way or the other about Callista becoming Ambassador to The Vatican (at this point, sure, why not?), but the one positive thing might be that when Newt runs his mouth one time too often – and you KNOW he will, he can’t help himself – The Vatican, and maybe the Pope himself, will have to say something to disassociate themselves from his inanity. Good times to be had! (A boy can dream…)

  49. 49.

    efgoldman

    @Jeffro:

    what if I were to change parties and start offering myself up to news orgs as a “Republican activist”, pushing the GOP to do some common-sense things

    I’d bulletproof my windows and go out and buy the best ballistic vest I could get, first.

  50. 50.

    Mike in NC

    The NRA spent $30 million to elect Trump and he’s anxious to give them anything they want.

  51. 51.

    Jeffro

    Jonathan Riley on Twitter: “This is the moment Trump truly became President Nixon”
    LOL

    Why, you can almost hear that iceberg scraping along the hull, can’t you?

  52. 52.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @trollhattan: that’s a great point. the cops/swat suppress shooters first, and ask questions later. they will even shoot off-duty, out of cops, especially if they are POC.

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    @efgoldman: It would help me make the case to Mrs. Jeffro that I need my own space…I’m sure she’d oblige and have me in a 1BR rental faster that you can say “most NRA members think background checks make sense”

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    @trollhattan:

    To a one they were afraid to join in the firefight for fear of getting shot by SWAT officers.

    More common sense in their pinky fingers than in the whole right (wrong) side of congress.

  56. 56.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?

    @Hungry Joe: Apparently Steve King missed Portland Stabings a month ago or two months ago the alt-right started riot in California

  58. 58.

    D58826

    OK I’m not sure this really belongs here but after a very long day maybe we need a bit of the sex part of the ‘sex and violence’
    10 Surprising Facts About How Hollywood Sex Scenes Really Get Made’

    and #2 is difficult to read with a straight face’

    Genitals are covered. While some actors and actresses are perfectly comfortable filming au naturel, on-set costumer Sarah Basta says “there are a few things we always have in our kit: the cock sock, the snatch patch.” “A cock sock is a skin-colored pouch that he puts all of his stuff in; it has a drawstring on it. You put all of the things in there and then you double-knot it,” says Basta, whose credits include HBO’s Big Love and Netflix’s upcoming female wrestling series, G.L.O.W. “Double knotting is everything.”
    Women wear a landing-strip-like patch stuck on with either “double-stick tape or this great product called Bikini Bite, which is a water-proof roll-on adhesive,” Basta says. She’s helped women apply their coverings but says most of the guys figure it out on their own. “I did have one great actor ask me what goes in it” when she handed him his sock, she says. “I just had to go ‘all of the things.’ ‘What?’ ‘All. Of. The. Things. Put all of them in there.'”

    http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/a55601/sex-scenes-secrets/

  60. 60.

    mai naem mobile

    @sloan: yes they are. NPR had a story about people finally able to get care for post gunshot acute care issues because of pew existing condition issues. Stuff like getting a colostomy reversed that was needed due to a gunshot.

  61. 61.

    Aleta

    @Jeffro:

    The irony in all of this is that Trump’s actions (toward Comey) may very likely have caused him to personally come under investigation.

    Former prosecutors who have served in both Republican and Democratic Administrations told me that an obstruction-of-justice case against Trump is a no-brainer. “Comey’s testimony in a grand jury would be enough to get an indictment,” Julie O’Sullivan, who was part of the team that investigated Whitewater, the Clinton land deal that attracted a special prosecutor in the early nineties, said. To O’Sullivan, Comey’s detailed account of the Oval Office meeting in which Trump cleared the room and then told Comey to let go of the investigation of Michael Flynn, whom Trump had fired, the previous day, was especially damning because it showed that Trump knew that what he was doing was wrong.

    “For a prosecutor, this attempt to hide the conversation, all antenna are going up,” O’Sullivan told me. “That tells you that he has a consciousness that what he’s about to do is wrong. It’s like having a bonfire with documents in the back yard. It’s wonderful. Seriously, this is the best thing ever for a prosecutor.”

    “I think it is very reckless for any former prosecutor to say an obstruction-of-justice case can or can’t be made based on one witness’s testimony,” Matthew Whitaker, a former U.S. Attorney who was appointed by President George W. Bush, and who ran as a Republican Senate candidate in Iowa, in 2014, said. … But, among former prosecutors, Whitaker appears to be in the minority.
    …
    The day after Comey testified, Senator Dianne Feinstein sent a letter to Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, asking the committee to investigate whether Trump obstructed justice. She listed five witnesses who could help confirm Comey’s account of the Oval Office meeting (Andrew McCabe, the deputy director of the F.B.I.; Jim Rybicki, Comey’s chief of staff; James Baker, Comey’s general counsel; David Bowditch, the associate deputy director of the F.B.I.; and Carl Ghattas, an official in the National Security Branch of the F.B.I.). These are all allies of Comey, but Trump’s closest allies may also be important witnesses, including his son Donald Trump, Jr., who, in an interview on Fox News on Sunday, seemed to confirm Comey’s version of events. (There is no parent-child privilege in federal law, so Trump’s sons, as well as his daughter Ivanka, could be called to testify in front of a grand jury about their conversations with their father.)

    (from The New Yorker, last night)

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne

    @D58826:

    I’m guessing that actors of both genders are more careful than ever to cover their junk in the age of the Internet. It just takes one asshole PA with a cell phone to broadcast someone’s genitals to the world.

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    @sloan:

    Rand Paul admitted it’s a fluke he’s alive because they were all unarmed and Capitol Police only happened to be there because Scalise is a member of the house leadership.

    Now if only Scalise hadn’t been there.

    Too soon?

  67. 67.

    D58826

    But according to my rwnj cousin Melania is so much more gracious a first lady the that witch/white person hater Michelle. What generated this comment? Well Melania decided to open the east wing movie theater to the WH self guided tour. She wants the public to share in the rich history of the WH and the movie theater. Now I really don’t care if the theater is on the tour or not adding but it is hardly an earth shaking event. And I would love to know the historical significance of something that started life as a cloak room. Man I wonder what tales Abe Lincolns hat could tell:-)

    I’m not really trying to put Melania down. She hasn’t done anything to deserve criticism other than not moving to DC in Jan. It’s just in line with all of the events today that the right has spent 8 years demonizing Michelle, 30 years demonizing Hillary and now they want to canonize Melania and have the rest of us join hands and sing kumbyyaa for the GOPPERS who were shot today

  68. 68.

    Gelfling 545

    @bystander: Collins says that he’s going to start carrying a gun. I confidently look forward to him shooting himself in the ass.

  69. 69.

    D58826

    @trollhattan: And a very wise decision. In a confused event like that its to easy to shot a friendly. Sometimes it is even a cop that gets shot accidentally. There was one guy at the AZ town hall where Gabby G. was shot who drew a bead on the person he thought was the shooter. Fortunately he hesitated and discovered that person was actually grabbing for the gun to prevent the real shooter from reloading.

    In one sense I don’t begrudge the critters taking cover. I think the protocol for civilians in that situation is run. If that isn’t possible bunker down. If that isn’t possible then and only then fight. As other have commented it is the fact they have been the first ones to tell others to run into the line of fire. I guess it’s a bit different when there is a chance the the shooter might supply you with a new a**hole.

  70. 70.

    TenguPhule

    @Gelfling 545: Inner thigh holster from the sounds of it. Gonna have to really work at it to hit his rear end instead of the more dangly bits.

  71. 71.

    Gelfling 545

    @sharl: As Gingrich is a Catholic “convert” he needs to listen to the Pope in matters of faith or morals. Shpuld be interesting.

  72. 72.

    Mnemosyne

    @Gelfling 545:

    I’m pretty sure that Collins won’t be able to find his ass with the gun since he already can’t find it with both hands.

  74. 74.

    Hungry Joe

    Why weren’t those NRA-lovin’ Congress Critters armed? Sure, it’s gonna hurt if you’re packing with a side holster and you have to slide to break up a double play, but that’s the price of freedom.

  77. 77.

    Jilli Brown

    @Robin G.: And they got to experience the fruits of their labor firsthand.

    Not to be glib, but welcome to “real America fellas, life’s a whole lot different outside your bubble of protection. I doubt it will alter any of their thinking.

    Any whoo…its gotten to the point where these type of incidents rate a shoulder shrug. It’s truly sad.

  78. 78.

    SteveKnNKY

    My wife is consumed with the orange menace. She only watches MSNBC which was consumed by the DC shooting. I said look WCPO didn’t even cover the San Fransisco shooting and she said “What?”. I told her last my RSS feed said was 4 dead. She called WCPO news room and the person said “there was another mass shooting today?”. Cincy news for you.

  79. 79.

    ET

    Wasn’t there a mass shooting at a UPS facility in San Francisco yesterday/today as well? Guess people dying at that one is less important and doesn’t count t when compared to the massacre in Alexandria (not to diminish what happens there).

  80. 80.

    Hob

    @ET: That was mentioned here by several SF people, including me.

    As for the “less important/doesn’t count” snark (not just you, a couple people have said similar things)… I honestly don’t see the point in complaining about how a workplace shooting didn’t make the national news. It’s a ghastly horrible event of a kind that happens way too often, but for national reporters to focus their attention instead on an attempted murder of a bunch of Congresspeople is… just common fucking sense, isn’t it? That’s a national news story. Someone was shooting at elected officials of the federal government. I think people in SF are perfectly able to understand why people in other parts of the country might see that as the bigger story of the day. That doesn’t mean they’re disrespecting SF, or UPS workers, or whatever.

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