Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Giving up is unforgivable.

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Second rate reporter says what?

How stupid are these people?

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

Hell hath no fury like a farmer bankrupted.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

You are here: Home / Economics / Show Us on the Doll Where the Invisible Hand Touched You / They’re Still Coming for Your Retirement

They’re Still Coming for Your Retirement

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Mitch Ohnstad: “Why do you rob banks?”

Willie Sutton: “Because that’s where the money is.”

After the Republicans last night voted to gut the law allowing you to sue the banks and the credit card companies (yes, pedants you technically can still sue, but what individual can take on Wells Fargo without a class action suit?), I am absolutely convinced this will happen:

Republican tax writers on Capitol Hill are still considering changes to 401(k) retirement savings programs, downplaying President Donald Trump’s repeated pledges not to touch retirement accounts popular with middle-class Americans in the GOP tax overhaul.

At a breakfast with reporters this morning, House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady, R-Texas, said tweaks to the current system are possible in the tax plan, which Republicans are expected to release on as early as Nov. 1.

“We want more Americans to save more. We want them to save earlier in their lives,” Brady said, adding that congressional Republicans are “exploring a number of ideas” and share the same goal as Trump.

And why are they considering these changes? Because that’s where the fucking money is:

About 55 million Americans save in 401(k) plans, which hold more than $5 trillion in assets, according to the Investment Company Institute.

Americans are wedded to the idea of receiving tax deferrals when they save for retirement, with the ICI finding that 93 percent of workers with either a 401(k) or an IRA were against removing tax incentives. A majority also opposed reducing contribution limits.

In the meantime, the total amount Americans have saved to fund their retirement falls short of what they need by as much as $14 trillion, depending on how one runs the numbers. (By comparison, total U.S. GDP is roughly $18 trillion.) More than one-quarter of working Americans have no retirement savings or pension, according to a Federal Reserve study published earlier this year.

And they’ll get the changes they want. And then they’ll give it to the rich in the form of tax cuts. While their wall street buddies whittle away at that 5 trillion with fees and charges.And they’ll call it fiscally conservative. And praise deregulation. And limit your right to sue. And our press will let them because they are too busy chasing Clinton’s skirt.

They’ll get it all because our democracy has failed, our electorate is stupid, our politicians are evil, and our media is worthless.

Reader Interactions

215Comments

  6. 6.

    Corner Stone

    The whole 401k sales job was bullshit from the beginning. Now that they have seen they can just step in and rob pensions, of course they are going to come after the 401k.
    I am not sure why Wall Street would be in support of cutting the tax free deposit limit as that’s what they have been riding off of for the last 10 +/- years.

  7. 7.

    raven

    More than one-quarter of working Americans have no retirement savings or pension, according to a Federal Reserve study published earlier this year.

    So, none of this will impact them?

  8. 8.

    Baud

    I’m confused why Wall Street would be on board with people not pouring money into their 401(k)’s. It seems to offset the tax cuts.

    ETA: Corner Stone beat me to it.

  13. 13.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Bet there’s something in the fine print about subsidizing Wall Street for the revenue they’ll be losing.

  14. 14.

    Mike J

    Did you hear that the Clinton campaign did oppo research? Why are we talking about Republicans taking away your access to the courts or Republicans taking away your retirement accounts or Republicans cutting HC spending by a trillion and a half dollars or Republicans scrapping children’s health insurance or Republicans giving mega contracts to cronies to fix the power in Puerto Rico or Republicans allowing Trump to ignore the law on Russia sanctions when Clinton did oppo research? That bitch.

  15. 15.

    dr. bloor

    I’m so old I remember when R’s were telling us that 401k’s were so much better than pensions because of the tax benefits because of the tax benefits…

  18. 18.

    SatanicPanic

    @Baud: Because not every Republican makes their money from Wall Street. And because in the end, if you’re a very wealthy person, which do you take- a massive personal tax cut, or a decrease in profits for your business? Plenty would gamble that they’ll personally benefit more from the tax cut. A lot of these guys get paid whether their company makes money or not anyway.

  25. 25.

    SatanicPanic

    @Baud: I think the GOP has many owners- fossil fuel industry, Russia, Wall Street, stupid people, stupid people who inherited a lot of money…

  26. 26.

    Patricia Kayden

    @kindness: Maggie Haberman is more than happy to call Secretary Clinton a liar because of the dossier nonsense. Yet Trump lumps her paper in with what he derisively calls “fake news”. It’s amaxinh how much the MSM wants to ingratiate itself to Trump and Rightwingers.

  36. 36.

    Gin & Tonic

    @SatanicPanic: What’s the problem? Just work and contribute for 250 years, and you should have a decent amount to supplement your SS and your pension.

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    @Corner Stone:

    I am not sure why Wall Street would be in support of cutting the tax free deposit limit as that’s what they have been riding off of for the last 10 +/- years.

    @Baud:

    I’m confused why Wall Street would be on board with people not pouring money into their 401(k)’s.

    Maybe they’re expecting people to continue investing but put the money in IRAs or other individual accounts. That gives Wall Street the same cash but without investors having the negotiating power to demand low fees.

  40. 40.

    Elizabelle

    I don’t think they are going to get their massive tax cuts. They will get something, perhaps, but nothing on the scale that those poisonous plutocrats want to steal.

    I think the middle class (us being a prime example, actually) has figured out that this legislation is poisonous, and that we need more tax revenues to fix our infrastructure, clean energy, etc.

    This week, people are gagging at the proposed sharp hike in fees to visit our National Parks. Because their budget was cut severely, and they weren’t getting enough to begin with. The middle class has already pretty much held off “healthcare reform”, and we have it in us to resist and defeat “tax reform” too.

    Also, I think Mueller is gonna drop a depth charge before too long and distract Republicans. No idea of the timing on that, but he’s building a careful case. Who knows what they’re learning and discussing, behind closed doors.

    Situation grim, but don’t declare defeat at the outset.

    And yeah, re stupid and callous Republicans, their voters, and the cowardly, cowardly media.

  41. 41.

    JMG

    @Patricia Kayden: No one is allowed to cover national politics for the Times without swearing an oath of blood hatred against the Clinton family. Haberman, a good reporter, is also a good reporter wholly dependent on her sources. She has to express sympathy for evil or evil will stop returning her calls. Put her back on, say, the Brooklyn police beat, she’d turn in a real scoop a day.

  42. 42.

    Mary G

    @raven: He’s still got it! I love Vinnie so much. My cats are staring at me because I just screamed “It’s time for Dodger baseball” at the top of my lungs.

  44. 44.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    To think I was repeatedly told by my Progressive Betters that Trump would be harmless.

  49. 49.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mike J: CNN was on it all day so yeah. I didn’t know that oppo research was illegal or improper but I guess once there’s a Clinton involved, every dang thing is a scandal.

  53. 53.

    rikyrah

    I believe that they will try, Cole.
    BUt, I believe that they will fail.
    This concerns the middle class and is the heart of the IGMFY group.
    These folks will not have guns or abortion or shiny objects thrown at them m.
    The same reason why the local tax deduction is no longer floated..
    There are close to 50 GOPers from these states, and these Reps would be committing career suicide

  55. 55.

    Aleta

    The mayor of San Juan said the small company tasked with restoring power to Puerto Rico is threatening to pull out their services over her criticism of their contract.

    “We’ve got 44 linemen rebuilding power lines in your city & 40 more men just arrived. Do you want us to send them back or keep working?” Whitefish Energy tweeted Wednesday.

    The tweet was in response to Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz’s request for more transparency about their $300 million contract, which has faced scrutiny because of potential conflicts of interest.

    Cruz tweeted in response that the company’s comments are a threat, expanding on her criticisms of the company’s contract from earlier Wednesday.

    “They are threatening not to do their job which frankly is quite irregular for a company hired to the work for the public sector,” she tweeted.

    Cruz called Wednesday for the company’s contract to be voided, questioning its legal and ethical standing. Whitefish Energy had only two full-time employees when the $300 million contract was signed and is based in Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke’s Montana hometown.

    House Democrats have also called for the contract to be investigated.

    A company spokesman confirmed Wednesday the Twitter account is operated by the company. He said the tweet is meant to foreshadow what the company would have to do if its contract with the island is voided.

  56. 56.

    raven

    @Mary G: He started the year after I was born and we moved from Chicago to LA the same year as the Dodgers. He called games with Jerry Doggett back then.

  57. 57.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Mary G: Mmmm, just the mention of Vinny get my mouth watering for some Farmer John’s hot dogs.

  59. 59.

    dr. bloor

    @Baud: Well, 401k’s were pitched as a replacement to pensions, which was a dead letter for the generations who saw the country built and thrive on the strength of unions and strong compensation packages. At this point, hacking away at 401ks is just a way to generate pay-fors to cut the taxes of the 1%.

  60. 60.

    tobie

    One of the many shitty developments today was that an Obama-appointed judge Vince Chhabria rejected CA’s and 17 other states’ requests that Trump administration continue to pay a CSRs for health insurance. I believe Chhabria screwed the Democrats once before on a major case but can’t find any information on this. Does anyone here know?

  61. 61.

    KithKanan

    @Roger Moore: From someone working at a small business with a 401(k) with investments with higher fees than I’d like, the only reason I use it at all is for the tax benefit. It’s not the 1980s or 1990s anymore and I can get a much better deal as an individual investor than the funds my 401(k) has on offer.

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    @Elizabelle:

    This week, people are gagging at the proposed sharp hike in fees to visit our National Parks.

    In all honesty, I think some of the National Parks could do with a big fee hike. Places like Yosemite and Zion are being overwhelmed by the number of visitors, and raising prices is a perfectly reasonable way to raise some extra money and hopefully encourage some of those people to go to less visited- and less expensive- parks instead. I don’t support the funding cut- we should fund the parks more to help deal with the backlog of deferred maintenance and help deal with the damage all those visitors are doing- but there are good reasons to raise entrance fees.

  63. 63.

    dr. bloor

    @tobie: Might have been Gaba that pointed out on Twitter that CA’s case was undermined by the good job insurance companies did in compensating for Trump’s fucking around. His comments and questions made it clear that he knew more about CSR’s, silver-loading, etc. than 99% of Congress, and CA had difficulties demonstrating the necessity of an immediate halt.

  69. 69.

    Betsy

    @rikyrah: There are only 146 middle-class people left in the country, with established middleclass things like 401ks to care about and defend. Not enough to matter electorally.

    Plus, Republicans can always orchestrate a campaign of blame and calvinistic shaming for both better-off and worse-off opponents: theyll say about anyone modestly doing well who objects “you should be so lucky to care that you can put more than $2,400 in an IRA … most people can’t, you elite lib!”. The other end of the financial spectrum, the barely middle class with no retirement savings at all, will be blamed for not working three jobs and occasionally having granite countertops.

    Heads they win Tails we lose

  72. 72.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Baud: Lol! Sadly true. But thankfully there are other reasonably good news sources like the Washington Post and the Guardian.

  84. 84.

    mad citizen

    Off topic, yes, but I look at current news when bored. I really don’t worry about a Trump dictatorship, because he’s so old and incompetent, and the children are bozos, etc. But take a look at the BBC homepage right now. http://www.bbc.com/news It looks like something the world might have had in the 1930s, had the interwebs been around. Trump compliments the leader of one of our supposed enemies (China); story #2 about how his hated rival funded dirty tricks against him; then America’s opoid crisis and a warning to blacks in America. Where are we? What is happening?

  85. 85.

    Patricia Kayden

    @JR: I don’t think Republicans care about people like us. They only care about the wealthy “job creators”.

  86. 86.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @raven: This is tangential, but I always liked Hawk Harrelson’s sense of humor and open enthusiasm..

  88. 88.

    Mary G

    @raven: You look good. The only event I got to see in 1984 was the dancing horse one (dressage?) at Santa Anita racetrack.

  89. 89.

    Immanentize

    Friends, here is the 401k play. 401ks are pre- tax dollars. You get to put in varying amounts pre-tax and your employer can too — pre tax. But you are taxed when you withdraw at retirement as income. But then — during retirement — your income is MUCH lower so your tax bracket is lower too. win win for saving outside of SS. Which used to be what the GOP wanted What the GOP wants to do NOW is switch 401ks into Roth IRAs which DO NOT use pre-tax dollars, but taxed income. But Roth’s let you withdraw without taxation (when you really do not need the tax break.)

    So what they are doing is moving taxation to a distant unknown future by taxing middleclass folks saving for retirement NOW on all.their income. The functional end of 401ks is a huge middle class tax increase to pay for rich people taxes now.

  90. 90.

    Elizabelle

    @mad citizen: I know. It’s the 1930s again, with blogging and the internet.

    And trigger warning re BBC homepage: this morning they had a photo of a slaughtered rhino up. Wish I had not seen that.

  91. 91.

    tobie

    @dr. bloor: Thanks for the explanation. I could see why the judge would say that California didn’t have any aggrieved parties thanks to the foresight of its state government but California was only one of 17 states requesting a preliminary injunction in this suit. I know my state (Maryland) was also party to this suit, and we definitely don’t have a work-around plan if CSR payments are cut.

  94. 94.

    Peale

    @Immanentize: I’m not eligible for a Roth. The 401ks withdrawals are also taxed as regular income., not at the lower capital gains tax rate. The Roth’s do have the advantage of having all gains tax free.

    My guess is that they will be creating taxation nightmares for retirees all the way around.

  95. 95.

    raven

    @Mary G: I was just about to move from Illinois to Georgia. I had already been out there for the Rose Bowl when the Illini played UCLA that year. My brother was in law school in Sacramento and, when we heard the Russians bailed and there were tickets galore, we both called our mom and told her to go to the ticket fair at the forum and buy anything she could get. We sat in the 4th row of the Coliseum for Edwin Moses hurdle gold medal run, got to see Joanie Benoit get her gold for the women’s marathon that morning, saw boxing, baseball and soccer and got loaded with the Australian swim team.

  96. 96.

    magurakurin

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Besides complaining on a blog and in the comments what can we do about it?

    unless you can convince 10’s of millions of your fellow citizens to stop being greedy, spiteful, racist assholes…not a fucking thing.

  97. 97.

    Immanentize

    @Peale: but the difference is when do you pay the tax? Now? (Roth’s) or later (401ks). The GOP WANTS YOUR TAX MONEY NOW! Therefore get rid of 401ks and give that $$$ to their donors.

  100. 100.

    japa21

    @Immanentize: To add to all the rigamarole, some states, such as Illinois, do not tax money pulled out from a 401k, which makes it doubly nice for retirees, as they only pay the Federal tax. Moving to Roth IRAs means paying state tax on those dollars as well.

  105. 105.

    No Drought No More

    Well, I’m a long tooth, Cole, and have been watching this circus play out since war raged and GI’s perished by the dozens every week in Vietnam. Still, I believe I’ll live to see todays republican party scattered to the electoral four winds as a national power. If not at the hands of the current crop of democratic office holders, then the next. Their kumbaya rhetoric of the recent past has been exposed as bankrupt (if 40 years of regurgitating shit sandwiches constitutes “recent”), and those democrats that continue to spew much less think in such terms will have to wise up fast, or will be forced from office even quicker by a fed up rank and file. Big fight, come soon*.. and I for one will never quit. Hell, you’re an ex-combat vet. Are you telling me you will? Because I don’t see that happening.

    Just recall the dying words of Captain La Strange: “Fuck ’em all”. Or George Patton: “.. he won the war by making the other poor, dumb sonofabitch die for his”. Or Kris Kristoferson: “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose”.

    Either that, or move to Sonoma to farm marijuana and tune the fuck over-and-out. I know people who do that, too. Anyway, cheer up, will you please?

    *(“Benteen, Come on. Big Village. Be Quick. Bring Packs. P.S. Bring packs”. W.W. Cooke).

  107. 107.

    Baud

    China’s President Xi Jinping just got near-unlimited power by having his name written into the country’s constitution, essentially elevating himself to the level of Mao Zedong

    Trump will get ideas.

  109. 109.

    Schlemazel

    @raven:
    I had family in San Mateo in the 50s. When I visited them they were literally in the a grove of apricots that went on as far as I could see from 8 feet up a tree. I didn’t get back there until the late 70s and I could have walked from one end of the town to the other going from roof to roof & never touch the ground.

  113. 113.

    Elizabelle

    @Gin & Tonic: Yea; use it in good health. Drag efgoldman around with you too, you hear?

    I do an $80/annual pass, and it’s still a great deal. And that might be what families will end up doing — buying the annual pass to avoid egregious daily or weekly park entrance fees.

    @Roger Moore: Agreed about Yosemite and Zion, but the increase was so steep.

  114. 114.

    raven

    @Schlemazel: I was body surfing at Huntington Beach Pier a couple of years ago and I went up to one of the rental booths. I told the guy I used to go there when I was a kid in the 50’s and he said “Everything across the road was butterbeans then”!

  115. 115.

    Ohio Mom

    @dr. bloor: The judge knew more about CSRs, Silver-loading, etc. than 99% of Congress? He must be reading Mayhew/Anderson’s posts. Wonder what nym he’s been using.

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    @raven: Have not been on all the threads, but I don’t think so.

    Peeps: let’s keep an eye out for efgoldman updates. He informed us jackals that his health has declined and he is being hospitalized for a while. We hope for his recovery and return home soonest.

  121. 121.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle: That’s not good — Is he in Mass or R.I. I have time to do.some fetching and delivery if that is needed…. I know he does shows in Boston, but where does he live? I will help if I can.

  123. 123.

    Ohio Mom

    @Elizabelle: Maybe we should do a card bomb — send cards to a front pager who knows his real name and address, then the front pager boxes them up and sends them to him.

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @Immanentize:

    So what they are doing is moving taxation to a distant unknown future by taxing middleclass folks saving for retirement NOW on all.their income. The functional end of 401ks is a huge middle class tax increase to pay for rich people taxes now.

    I think you’re on the right track, but have expressed it wrong. They aren’t “moving taxation to a distant unknown future”; they’re moving it from a distant unknown future to today. IOW, this is effectively a way of borrowing money without looking like that’s what they’re doing. It’s more or less the same trick they like where temporarily lowering capital gains taxes produces a surge in revenues because people cash in while the rates are low; it gooses current revenue at the expense of future revenue.

  132. 132.

    Elizabelle

    @Immanentize: Not sure re hospital. I think he’s a Rhode Islander; not sure if he’d go up to Boston for specialized care.

    @Ohio Mom: I love the idea of a card bomb. How fun to send him some. And little notes, once he’s home. I can see Anne Laurie helping us with that …

    I think I have an email addy for efg; will try it, in event anyone is checking it over next few days.

  134. 134.

    Elizabelle

    @Mike J: Thank you, Mike, for searching that.

    efg’s message, this morning about 10:00 am:

    OT
    I’ll try to post this another time or two
    I am going to be admitted to the hospital later today.
    I have lost all the considerable gains I made, and then some.
    I know the best jackals in jackalhood will worry

    Even us inferior jackals have efg in our thoughts and jackal prayers.

  135. 135.

    raven

    @Gin & Tonic: Which is, what, 5 miles from Southern RI?? I’ve been getting group emails from my old unit group in Providence being all hysterical about the NFL. I sent em shit back but never get a reply.

  136. 136.

    frosty

    @raven:

    “Everything across the road was butterbeans then”!

    Not quite everything. I rented a place on 9th Street that was built before the war, so it would have been there among the butterbeans. Last time I was back in HB, though, there was *nothing* left from when I lived there in the 70s. All of 9th St was a teardown. No taco bell or DQ on PCH. Hell, the pier was new, the old one washed away in the 90s.

    Still a nice place and Main St is much better than it used to be. Jack’s Surfboards is on the same corner, but the building is new.

  140. 140.

    raven

    @frosty: Ah, we always went to the state beach by the power plant. That’s a bit down from the pier, no? Where was beer can beach?

  141. 141.

    realbtl

    I’ll de-lurk, I used to listen to the Dodgers when they played in the coliseum and in fact saw 1 game there, too young to remember much. But was there for the Drysdale/Koufax years. What Fun.

  142. 142.

    raven

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Was there only one? We lived in Whittier.

    “FedMart began as a membership store by opening in an abandoned warehouse in San Diego, California in 1954.[4] A second store was opened in Phoenix, Arizona in 1955 quickly followed by a third store in San Antonio, Texas. A second San Diego-area store was opened in Kearny Mesa in 1958 followed by opening of other stores in San Diego and Southern California.”

  147. 147.

    Immanentize

    @raven: Such slander! It’s at least 10 miles to Southern Rhode Island!

    I am just north of Boston and I can get to Northern RI in about an hour if traffic is good….

  148. 148.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @raven: No, there were more than one; we lived in Thousand Oaks and didn’t get that far into the valley that often. Sears on Fallbrook and Topanga Plaza were frequent trips.

    ETA: There was the rather memorable trip where we DIDN’T stop at Zoddy’s.

  149. 149.

    frosty

    @raven: Tin Can Beach? Bolsa Chica, I think, with the power plants. North of HB but not as far as Sunset and Seal Beach.

  150. 150.

    gene108

    @Doug R:

    ACA repeal passed the House and only failed in the Senate because a brain tumor gave McCain a fleeting conscience.

    And we fought like mad. Jammed Congressional phone lines, protested at offices, had handicapped people being dragged out of Capitol Hill, etc

    We are not trying as hard to stop this tax bill.

  152. 152.

    raven

    @realbtl: What about Eiler Larson in Laguna?

    Eiler Larsen (March 27, 1890 – March 19, 1975) was a Danish vagabond who earned fame as “The Greeter” of Laguna Beach, California, United States.[1] Larsen wandered in Europe, South America and across the United States before settling in Laguna at age 52. He worked as an occasional gardener, but adopted the daily habit of standing on a street corner to greet every car and passerby. From the 1940s until the early 1970s, the shaggy-haired, heavily bearded Larsen grinning, waving and booming “Halloo-oo-oo!” to visitors became a cultural icon for Laguna Beach tourists. Local patrons supported him with a rent-free room, free meals and other services. In 1964, Larsen was proclaimed Laguna’s Official Greeter by the mayor. During his lifetime, Larsen was featured in paintings, postcards, photographs and sculptures.

  155. 155.

    Kathleen

    @Schlemazel: How I remember that ’65 series. I lived in St. Paul and was a huge Twins fan. Their loss broke my heart (didn’t the Twins take it to the last game?)

  158. 158.

    Ryan

    Weren’t 401ks a compromise from defined benefits plans? What, we were asked to take a half a loaf, now we have to settle for an eighth?

  161. 161.

    raven

    @Schlemazel: There was a guy on FDL, Southern Dragon, who died alone and his Facebook page is still up. A couple of us note his birthday every year.

  162. 162.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    ACA repeal passed the House and only failed in the Senate because a brain tumor gave McCain a fleeting conscience.

    Not exactly correct. If it had passed the Senate, the House and the Senate would have had to go to conference to agree on the language (assuming the House didn’t just pass the Senate bill). Would they have been able to do so and then get the votes to re-pass the thing in both houses? Who knows? Recall that at each step, the leadership argued to their members that they should ignore what’s in the bill and just vote for it in order to move the process along.

  163. 163.

    lgerard

    @raven:

    The best part

    The throw was from Shawn Green (former Dodger) to Jose Valentin (former Dodger) to Paul La Duca (former Dodger)!

  164. 164.

    Elizabelle

    @Schlemazel: Yeah. Those meetups have been very useful, and Alain is also great at gentle interface via email addresses. I think Adam does it too. It’s a good mix of anonymity and connection.

  165. 165.

    Schlemazel

    @Kathleen:
    Yup, game 7. I was a kid & I hated the Dodgers since then. Certainly looks like they have the best team this year. Hard to argue that the real WS should have taken place with the NL West

  170. 170.

    Millard Filmore

    @Mary G: You should have gone to Venice Beach. The marathon runners went through there. The Mexican runner got a big cheer when he went by about 5 minutes behind everyone else.

  174. 174.

    raven

    Well, this has been fun but it’s the witching hour and I’ll have to catch the end of this on the DVR. Hasta Luego!

  178. 178.

    randy khan

    “We want more Americans to save more. We want them to save earlier in their lives.”

    If I read that from a Democrat, I’d actually believe it, but from a Republican, it seems like an obvious lie.

  179. 179.

    Lizzy L

    @Kathleen: The Series I remember was the 1957 World Series, when the Braves beat the Yankees. I and everyone I knew hated the Yankees with a white hot passion — we were all either Dodger or Giants fans, and all heartbroken because our beloved teams were leaving. Also, the Yankees had beaten the Dodgers in 1956 — a bitter loss. Have I mentioned I was born on West 13th Street, NY NY? I was still in grade school in 1957. The Series was tied. School simply stopped the day of the 7th game. It was a Thursday. Teachers brought little black and white TVs into the classrooms, and we watched the game. The bell rang, and no one went home. It was a killer game: the Yankees didn’t score a single run.The streets erupted when the Braves won.

    The Yankees beat the Braves the very next year. But somehow it didn’t hurt as much as it might have, because — 1957. And I still hate the Yankees.

  180. 180.

    Schlemazel

    @raven:
    Thats is pretty much why I am not me on FB. But I my work could make me a target so I didn’t want to be too open.

  181. 181.

    realbtl

    @raven: Yup, him too. Born in LA but grew up in Sand Diego. An uncle lived in San Pedro so we drove the beach road a bit.

  182. 182.

    Millard Filmore

    @raven:

    Did the men and women run the same route?

    I do not remember. I was at the beach when many of the sunbathers scurried up to the sidewalk to see the runners go by. I doubt the marathon would have started out mixed, or maybe even not on the same day.

  183. 183.

    Gin & Tonic

    Just saw a figure that really set me back. A friend of my son’s graduated HS about 10 years ago in Bucks County, PA (middle to upper -middle class Philly suburbs.) There were about 900 kids in his graduating class. About 100 have died of heroin/opioid OD’s.

  184. 184.

    Schlemazel

    Hey, with all you CAlifornia kids here I have a question or two.
    We are going to be out that way & were thinking of hiking the San Bernardino National FOrest and Joshua Tree. Anyone been to wither place and care to offer suggestions for those areas?

  187. 187.

    J R in WV

    I’m thinkin’ about EFG, a good guy especially compared to the rest of you bums! (me included!)

    The Republicans better watch out messing with our SS and Medicare. People plan their retirements around saving so much, and how much their SS payment will be plus the pension, if any. We both have small pensions, Social Security, Medicare and a supplemental, in my case partly supported by my former employer.

    Lots of planning, years of work and counting pennies to save. We knew what we wanted to do after retirement, saved for that target. Now we have our place paid for mostly, well built, with a big shop out back. Want to travel and see the world.

    R’s better not get carried away, I’m a pacifist, but there are a lot of combat vets they are talking about stealing from who won’t let it go easy.

  193. 193.

    Jeffro

    Whew – a little late to the party here, but glad I posted that WaPo article earlier this afternoon! They really do want all our money and it’d be funny (certainly their rationalizations will be) if it weren’t so deadly serious.

    Who’ll be our first national politician to step up and say, “When is enough, enough? Do you greed heads need EVERY last dollar other people earn with their labor?”

    Place yer bets!

  194. 194.

    rikyrah

    @Betsy:
    You are talking about shiny objects. These people don’t give two shyts about abortion, or the little Baby Jesus, or guns.THEY are Republicans because of taxes and money. You phuck with that, and they will come for you.

  195. 195.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Ryan:

    Weren’t 401ks a compromise from defined benefits plans? What, we were asked to take a half a loaf, now we have to settle for an eighth?

    Bingo

  197. 197.

    scoyy alloway

    @raven: My earliest series memory is the Yankees-Pirates 1960 series, the elementary school principal in the auditorium with the radio on and a bunch of kids around him after school let out. Got hooked. Loved the afternoon games.

  198. 198.

    Jeffro

    @Schlemazel: @Mike J: @Omnes Omnibus: @Steve in the ATL: Who listens to just a cut or two off of that classic?? It’s meant to be listened straight through!

    (but if it comes down to it, “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For” is the best song on TJT…either the album version or the version on ‘Rattle & Hum’ with the New Voices of Freedom choir)

  199. 199.

    scoyy alloway

    @Gin & Tonic: Central Bucks HS? I live in NW Philly and my wife, a therapist, is very active in recovery groups. We knew the epidemic is bad, but I (not she) had no idea.

  203. 203.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Jeffro:

    Who listens to just a cut or two off of that classic?? It’s meant to be listened straight through!

    Agree with you there, but I’m not going to dignify the second part of your post with a response. Some of us go beyond what was played on MTV!

  204. 204.

    catclub

    @JR:

    Eliminating the tax incentive to save more is not a good way to encourage people to save

    This is true. But if you ARE saving $X dollars and it is now not taxed going in, then you can afford to save ~0.75*$X when it is Roth style taxed going in.
    The 0.75 corresponds to the 25% tax bracket – adjust accordingly for your top bracket.

  208. 208.

    No Drought No More

    For your perusal, Cole. “Drivers wanted in Sonoma county”:

    CHRISTI WARREN
    THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | October 25, 2017, 11:47AM
    |
    An SUV full of cut and bagged marijuana plants rolled over a sedan during a chase through Santa Rosa’s Railroad Square Wednesday morning in what police said appeared to be a deliberate crash stemming from a suspected robbery of a Sonoma County pot garden.

    No injuries were reported and officers are investigating the incident as a case of assault with a deadly weapon, said Santa Rosa Police Department Capt. Craig Schwartz. At least two people were detained near the scene…The backseat of the GMC Yukon SUV involved in the crash was “pretty much filled” with what appeared to be freshly cut marijuana plants, Schwartz said.

    Officers suspect those in the Yukon may have made off with stolen marijuana, prompting a pursuit by others in a Chevrolet Volt connected with the cannabis operation, Schwartz said…

  210. 210.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    Saw some folks talking about parks. Here’s what happens with parks in Canada. There are so many visitors allowed a year. The price is set, and first come first serve. No line jumping and bulk buys for resale on shit sites like stub hub. You’ve got to show your ID on the way in, and if you’re not the person on the ticket, well, it sucks to be you. This keeps the amount of visiting under control but allows everyone a shot at getting in.

  211. 211.

    Skippy-san

    I’ll say it again. Until these bastards feel physically threatened, they will continue to attack everyone except the rich and drive for a one party dictatorship. Go examine the history of Singapore and Lee Kwan Yew. But even he would not go after peoples CPF funds.

  215. 215.

    Marty

    SKIRT?! You must be talking about someone OTHER THAN Clinton! Chasing a pantsuit is more accurate (*_*)

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