The GOP tax bill is incredibly unpopular
If you read carefully, you’ll see that no other major legislation of the past 25 years has polled below 40%, except for the ACA repeal bill.
I happen to think that the tax bill is *more* politically damaging for Republicans than ACA repeal. Here’s why: unlike working class people who vote Republican, upper middle-class people who vote Republican pay attention to how government actions affect their finances. They’re probably still mostly motivated by racism/tribalism, but they don’t want their tax deductions to go away. If they do go away, they may stop voting Republican.
Democrats are *already* +11 in the generic ballot. No one has won the House by 11 points since 1982.
I hope to God this piece of shit doesn’t pass. I wish Republicans in Congress cared about the country. They don’t. Some do care about getting re-elected. If they do, they should vote against this thing.
Baud
They won’t stop until they are stopped.
Fair Economist
Democrats typically don’t do as well as the generic ballot would predict, although +11 generic is probably enough to win the House, as well as put the Senate seats in Texas and Mississippi in play.
eclare
Question, I called both senators (Corker, Alexander) last Friday and gave them my name. Do I keep calling, or do they say that is that same crazy lady?
Barney
But how popular is chromatography?
All I’m seeing in the graphic is some dots. Axios’ version has the all-important text, too.
…and now I’ve posted that, it’s fixed. Thanks.
Doug!
@Fair Economist:
I think they may beat the generic ballot this time. Enthusiasm is through the roof.
Jeffro
It’s the same problem they have in most every area: the only voices they listen to are their crazy-ass .1% hard-Randian donors, the NRA, and/or the fundies.
Doug!
@Barney:
Fixed it.
sukabi
I think something is missing from your graphic…all I’m getting is the right side of an image that shows blue balls of varying hues in a column…so not really illustrating much, except I suppose, blue balls suck.
ETA..you fixed it as soon as I posted…:) still it could have been research done by Kyle down stairs.
Baud
@sukabi: Yes. Yes, they do.
Mike J
My guess is the very important people will look at this graph as a sign of toxic partisanship and why won’t those mean Dems support anything the Republicans want to do?
Doug!
@sukabi:
Fixed it
Brachiator
The Republicans didn’t much care about negative reaction to their attempts to repeal ACA.
They give less than a shit about how unpopular they are now. They are hell bent on ramming tax reform through.
Crazily enough, I’ve heard some Republicans here in California say they are unsure of how this bill will affect them even though online tax calculators show that they would likely see a tax increase.
As I noted before the Republicans are going to do a great deal of damage to the country as quickly as they can. And a lot of people will be hurt. The GOP just don’t care.
Unpopularity has to translate into votes against the GOP since they are willing to defy popular will and there are practically no moderate Republicans who can fight within the party.
So, I guess we will see if the mid term elections will make a difference.
moonbat
That’s what needs to get through to these sociopath Republicans: It doesn’t matter if your big money donors stop giving to your campaigns if you don’t pass this bill. You’re going to get slaughtered by your constituents ANYWAY. It’s THAT unpopular.
martian
It will be a terrible thing if the bill passes. But. If it’s true that passing the bill will trigger billions in automatic cuts to Medicare, then my Trump-voting relatives are about to get bitten in the ass.
I think it’s become clear that Trump voters only respond to aversive conditioning.
prostratedragon
The graph’s author, Chris Warshaw, has an update that shows the net support for these bills, which I guess is For – Against without Don’t Know:
graph. Tax bill is second only to health care bill in net disapproval.
MomSense
Losing the medical expense deductions and having to count my kid’s scholarship money as income (about $50,000 a year) would ruin me. And my medical expenses would go up astronomically because of what will happen to premiums without the mandate.
The only thing I can say for the Republican Congress is that they have revealed themselves with this. They can’t deny being in the pocket of the Uber wealthy after this sham of tax reform.
Calouste
@moonbat: Well, if the big money donors stop giving to my campaign, how am I going to pay my kid’s internet consultancy $250,000 to run my five page campaign website?
p.a.
Ammosexual comes home, finds his/her partner in bed with another person. Ammosexual grabs gun out of closet, points it at his/her own head. People in bed laugh at the ammosexual. Ammosexual: “What’re you laughing at? You’re next.”
(race/ethnicity/gender cleansed, bit clunky this way, but I think still a decent joke)
debbie
Huh. I’m always being told this is a center-right country.
Frank McCormick
Up until now, Republican a-holiness has not (obviously) translated into lost votes, so they believe themselves impervious. It is up to us to show them otherwise.
Mart
@martian: That is what surprised me. When Bush tried to cut the olds benefits; they had a carve out if you are 55 or older, it will not apply to you. So you old people can keep voting for us R’s, Now that I am an old they are going right at us. The bastards.
debbie
What a pig.
Another Scott
@Doug!: Yup. Democrats smashed through the expectations in the Virginia polls.
I think the House is definitely leaning D for 2018. The Senate is not impossible, either.
But we have to keep fighting and do everything we can to maximize turnout.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@MomSense:
Wanna bet?
Brachiator
@MomSense:
I am almost surprised at how thoroughly these bills eviscerate the middle class and how nakedly it benefits the wealthy.
And here Trump is the GOP’s lucky charm. Trump has totally conned his supporters, who foolishly believe that he is fighting for them.
And the sick thing is that some of what I’ve read about the Koch brothers is that they truly believe that there should be no safety net and practically no federal government, and that what would make America great is having people fight each other like dogs for scraps on the ground.
ETA. This tax reform would also crush single people and some married people without children.
Baud
According to Kevin Drum, the administration is walking back repealing the individual mandate, but that still would leave a gaping hole in revenue, so who knows how serious they are.
Dave
I’ve pretty much given up on the voters who are stupid enough to keep voting against their own interests. They’ve proven over and over they only care about their candidates hating the people they hate. So even though I may personally be hurt by this abortion of a tax bill, I hope they pass the motherfucker. I want the dumbasses who keep voting for them to feel some real pain. Some innocent people will be hurt, and it will take some time to repair the damage, but that’s life. I say let the dumbfucks get what they voted for. In the ass. Hard. No lube.
dmsilev
@MomSense:
Every graduate student I know is panicking over this bill because of that clause. Generally, science/engineering students get tuition waived and then a stipend to (barely) live on. Counting the value of the tuition waiver as income would mean that they’d be taxed on double or more of their actual income, resulting in people who’s gross pay is $30K paying up to 40% _total_ tax rates (not even marginal rates). I work for a private school and we have flexibility in how we define tuitions and the waivers, so we can probably finagle things so that our students don’t suffer. Public universities, where the fiscal policies are usually set by the state legislatures, well that’s an entirely different story.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
I still can’t get over how the GOP doesn’t give a fuck at all about how unpopular they and their bills are. This isn’t how a democratic party is supposed to act. They won’t hold Trump accountable and properly investigate him even though they promised to last year. Golly, its almost like they want to turn the US into a one-party dictatorship.
How did we last this long when other presidential systems have been so unstable? Serious question.
Steeplejack
What strikes me about the Republicans’ lemming-like rush over the cliff on tax “reform” is that their long-term epistemic closure on things like climate change, trickle-down economics, etc.—anything that inflames their base and riles up Democrats—has progressed like prion disease to the point that now they are impervious not only to “fake news Democrat ‘facts’” but to actual “real” facts on almost any subject, such as the numbers coming out on the tax bill from impartial sources such as the Congressional Budget Office. Nothing seems to be getting through to them, not even the Republicans most at risk in blue states.
Mary G
The Republican Party is between a rock and a hard place. If they don’t help their donors the money spigot will be turned off. If they do the voters will hate their guts. I for one am not sparing any sympathy since they have decided to go with the rich people because they think voters are stupid enough to be fooled back into supporting them if they gin up another culture war or real war. Even racism hasn’t helped them as much as they thought when Charlottesville backfired on them and more counter-protestors than white power people have shown up to every subsequent event.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Seems I heard the administration was also walking back its repeal of the ban on elephant ivory imports. Gee, is it possible that the utter tone-deafness and unpopularity of its most asinine proposals are penetrating even to the Oval Office and its offal resident? Could it be?
Baud
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
We’re a republic, not a democracy. #HurHurLibrul
Baud
@Miss Bianca: They walk back a lot of things. It’s governance by scattershot with these guys.
Another Scott
@Dave: Trouble with that approach, though, is that they still won’t blame Donnie and the Teabaggers. Some new “culture wars” meme will be dragged out to distract their voters from their looting of the Treasury and all the rest. “What’s the matter with Kansas”, other works, and countless examples since the mid-1960s (and likely earlier) have told us this.
This isn’t new. (The vast majority of) Their voters don’t vote their pocketbooks – they vote on culture memes. In the process, the 0.01% who are their donors get to write the economic rules to protect and grow their fortunes at the expense of everyone else.
The only way we’re going to turn things around is to vote these monsters out of office. That means not letting their voters “get it good and hard”. For every “uninformed, apolitical” voter who hates the caricature of Democratic policies, there are 2-3 other Americans (Democratic voters, non-voters, people under 18, etc.) who will be hurt if/when Teabagger policies are enacted instead. We need to do what we can to make things better for them, even if Donnie’s voters aren’t persuadable.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@Dave: I dunno, my answer to this is still the answer Eddi McCandry gave to the phouka in War for the Oaks – “sure, maybe he deserves to get shafted. But how can you be sure a lot of other people don’t get shafted too?”
For me, that’s still a salient point.
Emerald
@Frank McCormick:
They don’t all believe themselves impervious. Issa actually voted against it. He’s really scared.
But I called him to thank him for his vote. It’s the only decent thing he’s ever done in office (probably just “ever”) and even though he did it out of highly justified fear, he did do it.
Still gonna go door-to-door to get the bastard out of office. I’m for Applegate, but I’ll take Levin if he’s the Dem choice. Anything to get rid of Issa.
martian
@MomSense: Medical expenses would choke us, too. Next year is going to be a very high expense year. One of the family Trump voters just sent my daughter five dollars for her birthday, and I thought, “Thanks, asshole. Her orthopedic surgeon appreciates everything you can contribute.” I am bitter down to my bones, now, and struggling to contain it.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
This is not true. They just make a different, and I think incorrect, set of calculations. They believe that if you get rid of regulations and bad treaties and cut taxes on businesses then there will magically be more jobs and higher wages.
Brachiator
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Since Reagan, I guess, the GOP has been explicitly pushing the idea that Republicans represent the only legitimate political party in America.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Media provides them with an assist, even PBS Snoozehour. This Friday Mark Shields was calling Ds a party of identity politics. WTF, Jowly McJowlface? Retire already. And cradle snatcher Brooks was opining about older men preying on younger women and blaming wait for it, Bill Clinton.
ETA: And even here, some FPers and commenters were demanding a resignation from Al Franken over that tasteless frat boy humor photo.
RSA
Pulling information from this NYTimes piece, doubtless already outdated, and a few demographic Web sites, I figured out this morning that about 22.5 million households, i.e. about 58 million people, will see their taxes go up under this legislation. Some of them, like grad students, people who deduct heavy medical expenses, and so forth are clear targets.
Aleta
tychay
@Another Scott: the mistake you are making is you are equating a vote not for a Republican as a vote for the Democrat. In reality when a Trump voter “votes with their pocketbook,” they simply stop voting at all. I’ve seen it happen with my girlfriends parents and the recent VA election shows when that is coupled with the turnout among liberals and soft voters in the suburbs, you have an overwhelming vote differential.
The Trump voter doesn’t need to be convinced to change their vote to “get it good and hard”
Mary G
@Emerald: You are a better person than I am. I thought about calling Issa after he voted no, but I couldn’t do it. Watching him sweat is fun, though. Sometime next year he’ll probably switch parties in a desperate attempt to keep his seat.
schrodingers_cat
@Aleta: Just a $1000? They also want a pound of flesh to go with it.
laura
@Emerald: Issa’s odious since day one.
I wonder if that many republican’s even worry about reelection when the real gravy train is the private sector, from the Heritage Foundation to peddling apocalypse slop buckets, the right wing welfare job market hasn’t shown much of a retreat.
The tiny, tiny upside to Watching this train wreck of Republican policy in action is that it sure makes me proud to be a Democrat and have a party that not only knows how to govern, but generally makes an effort to make things better for everyone, not just the donors.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: I’m too lazy to dig up numbers, but it seems clear that the GOP’s most motivated voters are those driven by culture war topics – Abortion, Gay Marriage, Flag Burning, Defense of Marriage, Immigration, Ebola is going to kill us all so we have to close the borders, MS13 is going to kill us all so we have to close the borders, the Contract with America, Obama is going to take everyone’s guns, Erasing our History by removing Confederate statues and renaming high schools named for traitorous generals, etc., etc. These are the things their politicians push like mad when elections are coming up – not tax policy. Once the election is over and they take office, the first thing they work on is tax policy and attacking the social safety net – not the culture wars stuff they ran on.
They know that riling up the lizard brain is the way to get people to react out of fear and ignore evidence. That’s why they do it over and over and over again.
I don’t think this observation – GOP voters don’t vote on rational economic arguments but on culture wars stuff – is at all controversial these days.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
Well, everyone is going to find out now what ‘center-right’ actually means. Even Mr. David Brooks, who has been thrashing around now for years on this very question.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I think they know how unpopular this is. That’s why they are trying to ram it through and are doing it basically in the middle of the night. Same as everything else they do. They know they are going to screw their constituents, but the money or the theology is more than enough to make up for it to them.
Bottom line, they don’t care, this isn’t about constituents, the country, poor people, even racism. Screwing the least (and of course most everyone else as well) among us is just icing. The only ones who might care are the ones who like the gig and want to keep it because if they get this piece of shit legislation passed, asshole will sign it and we will be seriously fucked. But so will they. It’s that bad.
aimai
Man, I had not heard about this graduate student thing. Fuck this. I have two daughters who I hope will soon be looking for graduate programs.
marcopolo
@eclare: My take on this is that every day our elected folks take a poll of what their constituents are thinking. That poll is what calls, letters, faxes, etc… to their offices are telling them. When we make the calls we are counted in the poll. And they are measuring two things: 1) what issues are mentioned; and, 2) which issues are mentioned the most often. So yes go ahead and call every week, or if you are really pissed, every day. I usually mention a couple or three issues but always start with what I am most pissed off about. But in addition to the tax bill right now there is reauthorizing CHIP, passing a fix for DACA, and a lot more. Just my two cents. Btw, when I call I don’t give my name, just say I am a constituent from my zip code. If fellow BJers have thoughts on whether it is better to actually give a name and street address I’m curious to hear them.
MattF
And I’ll link to Jen Rubin’s latest. ‘Shrill’ is an understatement.
martian
@Mart: It was always obvious they would go after the older voters, too, as soon as they had the chance. The cut out was a bribe to keep the IGMFY elders onside. But that’s where the money is, so that’s where they’re gonna go. All the other entitlements have been whittled away already down to scraps.
Republican voters are stupid, and shortsighted, and enjoy telling themselves fairytales like “Medicare and social security are not entitlements – I paid for them. This is my money coming back to me.”
MattF
@aimai: It’s a disaster. And it reveals the flat-out ignorance of Republican politicians about how post-graduate study in the sciences works.
marcopolo
@Emerald: Issa’s days are numbered. I’d say he has about another 365 :). Unless something dramatic happens that boosts Rs poll numbers (ala 9/11 with Bush Jr), the House will be flipping next year. But my current operative thought about our gov’t right now is “next week will be worse.” Just repeat that every week.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
One might be excused to think that the kochsucker brothers should give up access to their money and privilege for say a year, to see what fighting for scraps on street corners is actually like. Yes I know they don’t think this should apply to them but their idea may have merit and should be tested out. By them. Fucking asswipes. Have they been eating currency and it’s poisoned their tiny fucking minds?
Emerald
@Mary G:
I may have been the only one to call and thank him. The gal on the phone was quite surprised when I said that.
Of course, the tax bill will pretty much ruin me too. I do Airbnb, and the local taxes are horrendous. Losing that deduction, along with the medical and property tax deductions, will pretty much wipe me out.
But it’s no surprise that they’re targeting grad students. They don’t like education, now do they.
Villago Delenda Est
If someone deliberately wanted to provoke a 1789 France scenario in this country, this is how you would go about doing it.
These morons avoided that during the Great Depression, despite their best efforts to provoke it. This time they will not be so fortunate.
Aleta
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: @Steeplejack: Some say their imperviousness is due to (rather than for ex. stupidity or blindness) their absolute confidence in redistricting, voter registration tampering, power to influence. Or reflects their fright. If so, all the more reason to do everything to defeat them, for it will shatter their faith in their lords.
debbie
@Aleta:
Nice to see Ehrenreich’s name again and to see she’s as pithy as ever.
trollhattan
@MattF:
She’s come a long way from worshiping Mittens.
debbie
@Ruckus:
Yet not smart enough to know it will destroy them and their precious party.
Villago Delenda Est
@debbie: That was obvious in August of last year.
KS in MA
@Aleta: … And send it every year.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
@Miss Bianca:
This. We can not become them, even if that might allow us to win.
Be better. Explain better. Show them, even if they refuse to believe. Put it all on them. Yes a shockingly large portion are going to be assholes and morons and refuse to understand or even allow the concept that they might be wrong. Do the right thing anyway.
All that said I do understand the concept that screwing themselves to death may be the only way a small portion of the true believers might learn, they will then be dead and the entire learning experience will have been wasted. Sometimes people just have to be saved from themselves.
On an only slightly different note, I’m with the folks who think if we go down this road, if we don’t stop this now, we are most likely done as a country. The concept is good but like any unregulated human endeavor, especially governments, sooner or later the lack of regulation and the inequality of the citizens claims the organism. And it’s always ugly when it gets there. Out of the ashes may evolve a much better solution but it is messy, deadly and unnecessary. Or maybe it isn’t, some only learn the hard way.
frosty fred
@Brachiator: It’s at least since Reagan, but it’s not just the GOP: the media, the pundits, whatever sources or commentators you care to list, all speak from the unstated assumption that Republican/conservative means reliable and patriotic, Democrat/liberal does not. The fact that all evidence is against them does not have any influence.
debbie
@MattF:
The newer Republican politicians only, I think. The ones with the loudest voices in the party.
lgerard
@Emerald:
I am curious if they are going to tax the value of medical residency as income to the residents. This can be a couple of hundred thousands, and is largely paid by Medicare.
Perhaps a better idea would be to tax the value of luxury box tickets to sporting events, expensive meals and first class accommodations to business owners and managers. While we are at it, we could tax the value of those items to congress people that are currently paid for by campaign funds
dmsilev
@aimai: At the last I heard, the Senate version of the bill doesn’t have that provision. Things are still …fluid though, so who the Hell really knows?
All those GOP Reps who piously bleat about how important STEM education is can kindly go fuck themselves however.
debbie
@Villago Delenda Est:
I still don’t think they thought they would win.
Mary G
@MattF: Jennifer’s evolution has been flamazing. Her “Distinguished Pol of the Week” is Sherrod Brown, ffs.
gene108
Shutting down the government was unpopular in 2013. The Republicans weathered that just fine in 2014.
I will believe Republican fuckery will cost them, when they lose three Congressional elections in a row.
sharl
Do people think Twitler does his inflammatory twitter thing in moments like this, to provide whatever distraction he can from awful shit like this tax bill or ACA repeal?
Personally, I think the man himself is too impulsive and shallow-thinking to be that strategic. But others around him are capable of that sort of thinking, and I wonder if maybe they make sure his phone is within reach then get him riled up in moments like this, in the service of The Party.
gene108
@dmsilev:
They also bleat about “good paying manufacturing jobs”, without acknowledging the only reason they paid well is because of unions, which Republicans have been destroying for decades
Millard Filmore
@martian:
“That money in your Social Security account … that’s MY money. You’re spending MY money.”
(adapted from a comment on a PBS show a few decades ago on mentally ill people dumped onto city streets when the hospitals had to turn them out)
The Dudeist
One thing I saw during the election last year is many moderate Rs held their noses and voted Trump. I believe they will vote dem if they feel screwed over by the gop. The cult will never do it but I think rank and file types will definitely cross party lines. It’s simple, run outsider progressive and dem candidates and people might be more open.
Aleta
@debbie: It could make a good ad. “If you make less than x, mail $1000 to your favorite rich person (photos of wealthy public officials). Or, tell your Senators to vote NO on the Republican tax bill.”
MattF
@sharl: Trump has a very limited range of interests and obsessions. There’s an old joke about how a ‘one-track’ mind is actually a ‘one-hinge’ mind.
Spanky
Thing that bothers me about predictions for a Democratic wave election in 2018 and the apparent disregard Republicans have for such an outcome, is Russian hacking. There has STILL been no forensic analysis of state systems that use electronic voting that may have been tampered with in 2016. Count on at least a few House elections having unexpected results unless the vulnerable states take some action – like not using electronic systems.
Ruckus
@MattF:
In drumpf’s case it is a one track mind.
It’s a tiny little track, a tiny circle around his tiny little feet. And it always comes back around to him, every time, every issue. He basically lives in a little mirrored tube. All he ever sees is himself, no matter which way he turns. Of course the mirror is a fun house mirror, which makes the reflection look like someone completely different. You know, human.
sharl
@MattF: Yes, his interests and obsessions seem pretty well known at this point. His thin skin and quickness to respond to criticism are pretty obvious, such as this business of the basketball players busted in China for shoplifting, one of whose parents apparently didn’t express sufficient groveling appreciation for Twitler’s help in getting the kid and his teammates set free (disclosure: I haven’t actually read any stories about this, only seen mentions). His easily provoked irritability is a usable feature for those in a position to use it, just as is (on the flip side) his positive responses to ego massaging, which the leaders of foreign powers have exploited quite well so far.
The Dudeist
@sharl: Junior could be inflaming his Orange daddy. He was on Twitter the other day making comments about the UCLA kids thanking his dad.
Emerald
@Spanky:
THIS.
Amazing, isn’t it? HRC wins by 2.1%, which is a clear, decisive victory. But because of 77K votes in three strategically located counties, the shitgibbon sits in the oval.
And NOBODY is just a wee bit suspicious of that result? Nobody even thinks somebody should just maybe LOOK at it?
Because I do not believe it, and I never will. Illegitimate presidency, Probably illegitimate Senate too (certainly Russ Feingold was cheated).
And Virginia now uses only paper ballots. Bet we won’t see a result like that in states that don’t.
tobie
@Spanky: @Emerald: I’m not a Pennsylvania resident but I’ve wondered for a year now why the Democratic governor and secretary of state haven’t ordered an audit of the paperless, electronic voting systems used throughout rural PA. We know the Russians attempted to hack the state’s registration system. And we know the state’s voting system was identified by intelligence officers as the most vulnerable to attack. Does anyone have any idea why this isn’t an issue in the state?
BBA
@Emerald: Don’t blame the Russians for something the Republicans are perfectly capable of doing on their own.
(For my part, I’m resigned to a supermajority of white Americans being incurable racists and misogynists who would gladly vote for a child rapist if it meant banning abortions and letting police keep killing Black men with impunity. And I’m praying for that demographic transition that never quite seems to come.)
Jeanne
@sharl: The targets of today’s Twitter attack are black people. Honestly, that’s all that needs to be said. Does anyone believe he would attack white athletes this way? I’ll wait on blended knee for the answer.
trollhattan
@Jeanne:
Word. Has Jerry Jones weighed in yet?
WaterGirl
@debbie: I should have left them in jail. What an appalling thing to say. In his mind, everything really is about Trump.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: I love Sherrod Brown. So much.
SFAW
Can we please STOP referring to this thing as tax “reform”? Reform is defined as “the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory, etc.” (when a noun) and “to change to a better state, form, etc.; improve by alteration, substitution, abolition, etc.” or “to abandon evil conduct or error:” when a verb.
This monstrosity is NONE of those things. Call it a “tax cut for rich people” or “robbing people to pay the rich” or “class warfare by the rich against everyone else” or some suitably pithy analogue. Calling it “reform” legitimizes it and ZEGK. As my brother says, and I haven’t seen evidence to the contrary, Paul Ryan wakes up each day, looking for ways to fuck over anyone who is not rich, or not his donor. This bill is more evidence of that.
So just fucking stop with the Rethug-approved nomenclature.
WaterGirl
@SFAW:
YES!
MomSense
@Emerald:
I’m suspicious AF and have been since Inwatched the results come in.
Mike J
@SFAW: Call it a tax increase. It’s not a tax cut. It’s the biggest tax increase any government has ever inflicted on its citizens in the history of the world.
If you call it a tax cut for rich people, dumb dumbs will assume that some day they’ll get to use it. It is a tax increase on everyone but the super wealthy, so call it a tax increase. Subtlety is for chumps.
Emerald
@BBA: I actually don’t blame the Russians for that. The Republicans have done that before, if the Ohio results in 2004 are to be believed (or not). And Feingold lost because of voter suppression in Wisconsin (also why HRC lost there). And let’s not even talk about Detroit.
All that was a Republican effort. But the actual vote totals in just three counties reversing the result of a decisive election? No. Much too suspicious to just turn our nation over to a nutzoid dictator wannabe because of that. Whether the Russians or the Republicans did that, it needs forensics.
And paper ballots.
Baud
@gene108:
I agree. That’s what it’ll take.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@gene108:
Trump is in office now. I think an unpopular executive can help the opposition party win in elections.
Jeffro
@debbie: That’s just crazy. I mean even more than usual. “I, the president* of the country, should have left an American citizen in a foreign jail just because he failed to kiss my ass”. WOW.
SFAW
@Mike J:
Completely agree, wish I’d said that.
Duane
I’m convinced Trump ran for President so he can get tax changes that benefit him. The AMT, estate, corporate rate changes all lower his taxes. He doesn’t care about any of the rest. It would be in keeping with his selfish, egotistical thinking.
If he pulls this off it will be the biggest swindle in US history.
Jeffro
@MattF: Her last 5-6 columns have been full-on Balloon Juice material. She really does need to tell the #NeverTrumpers that it’s imperative they attach themselves to the Dems for a clear majority coalition to beat back the Bannonites.
On a related note from that column, “Tribal Blindness” would be an AWESOME name for a band.
Emerald
@Duane:
Already is. Already is.
Redshift
@eclare:
Yes, keep calling. I usually give my name, but I don’t get the impression they actually record it unless I ask for a response. They ask for my zip code to try to make sure I’m in the district.
tobie
@Mike J: Whenever I call my representative I call it the Republican tax hike bill. Let them own it.
Tim C.
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Gerrymandering, captive audience on conservative media, and that Josh Marshall calls the bullshit deficit is a hell of a combination. It’s what we’ve been describing for a year or more now. The GOP can win elections, but it can’t govern.
Ohio Mom
@Redshift: Some of the interns recognize my voice after all these months, as in, “Yes, I already know that, you told me that yesterday” when I give specific examples of how this tax increase will hurt their boss’s constituents.
Assuming they are honest and make a check in the column marked “against” on the sheet of paper in front of them I don’t care what they think of me — I wear my Crazy Old Lady badge proudly. I think they have already gathered I think they are schmucks for working for/identifying with the GOP.
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Some of the responses pretty much said that.
Someone must have tied him up. He’s only tweeted once today. I’d bet that has to be a record.
Ruviana
@aimai: Wait, didn’t one just go off to college? Or jas time gone by faster than I thought?
sukabi
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s almost like they KNOW that it’s not important how the voters vote, but HOW the votes get counted …or not.
aimai
@Ruviana: admittedly one just went off to college, and one is graduating this year, but the one who is a freshman wants to be a doctor and I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t want to go for an MD Phd so if they fuck this up now she will be hurting in just three years.
Ruviana
@aimai: Ah, that makes sense. She’s going to be busy!
D58826
Very interesting read. I don’t think the Russians were grooming Der Fuhrer to be POTUS in 1984. He was just a useful tool for information and access to the US business world.
There was one passage that sums Der Fuhrer to a T
Steeplejack
@Jeffro:
As we discussed last week, she’s not to that point yet. She’s ready to junk the Republican Party and sees as the alternative something that sounds almost exactly like the current Democratic Party, but so far she has been unable to connect the dots.
Sab
@Ohio Mom: The Cleveland Plain Dealer had a big story on the Senate tax bill. It was mostly about Sen Johnson’said issues with its impact on small businesses.
It did discuss Sherrod Brown’s and Rob Portman’s positions on the bill.
Rob Portman, who has never had a public position on ANYTHING, is on the record as liking this bill because he believes in trickled down economics.
Yikes!
Brachiator
@Spanky:
What evidence is there that this happened?
bemused
@Mary G:
They’re counting on every Dem and a few Republicans voting no on their robber baron bills to save their butts.
Dems always cleaning up their messes.
Mnemosyne
@Spanky:
It does seem instructive to me that Virginia uses paper ballots, not electronic voting.
The Lodger
@MomSense: It’s going to clobber any company, especially in high tech, that depends on a constant supply of graduate degree holders. (Unless they give up on hiring American MS and PhDs.)
James E. Powell
@Ruckus:
Agreed. What the Republicans are counting on is that Americans have almost no ability to follow politics other than as a reality show. The policies are almost irrelevant. They are also counting on the press/media focusing on totally different shiny objects that require almost no thought to understand & react to. Taxes are just so hard to figure out. And most of all they are counting on the continued loyalty of the white supremacists and misogynists who seem to vote no matter what. There’s also no Iraq War to be tired of, so they aren’t really worried about another 2006. Besides, they’ve got gerrymandered districts and vote-suppression going full bore.
How much are you willing to bet against them?
Miss Bianca
@The Dudeist:
Uh, right. “It’s simple – run people *most moderates and Democrats won’t even vote for*, and Republicans will flock to our banner!”
Wait, what?
Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady)
@The Lodger: It’ll also clobber universities. Science/engineering faculty depends on grad students for cheap research assistant labor. English depends on grad students to teach all those sections of freshman comp. I can’t imagine how that will continue to work.
Dave
@Another Scott: @Miss Bianca: I appreciate both of your points of view, and tend to agree. The thing is, I’m out of fucks to give, so it’s not so much that letting them get what they ask for would help the liberal cause, but more about meting out some well-deserved punishment for the stupidity of their actions. I hate it that innocents would be harmed, but I’m willing to suffer some collateral damage in the pursuit of justice for the deserving.
JMG
@James E. Powell: Trouble for the Republicans is, taxes aren’t hard to figure out at all when it comes time to pay them.
Miss Bianca
@Dave: “Heightening the Contradictions”, eh? : / Yeah, that doesn’t tend to work out so well for people like me. Part of why I tend toward Ruckus’s POV – it’s more important to focus on rallying the people who can be reached, then root for revenge scenarios that are going to fuck me over even worse than the objects of my wrath.
James E. Powell
@JMG:
No, but figuring out that voting for Republicans is why they went up seems to be beyond the intellectual capacity of Republican voters. It’s either that, or they don’t really care about taxes as much as they do about the comforts of white supremacy.
I mean, I get lectured all the time about #NotAllRepublicans or #DemocratsDesertedThem, but when you have situation like Brownback in Kansas and they still re-elected him, you’ve got to believe that financial issues and policies are not the first consideration
BBA
November 19 is both International Men’s Day and World Toilet Day, and I for one am not amused.
Toilets are a critically important part of our sanitation system and have greatly reduced public health risks from infectious diseases. They did nothing to deserve the insult of having to share a day with men.
The Lodger
@tobie: Probably because you can’t find an honestly run county election department anywhere in Pennsylvania. The big media are going to concentrate on the big cities, that means Democrats get tagged even if 50 of 67 counties cook the books for the Rs.
trollhattan
O/T To the surprise of approximately nobody Mugabe declares he’ll keep on keepin’ on.
They’re allowing people to protest without getting shot, so I’m guessing president-for-life actually isn’t.
randy khan
If you want some amusement, take a look at Paul Ryan’s Twitter feed. The comments on every tweet about the tax bill are pretty much entirely people telling him he’s lying.
Spanky
@Brachiator: How can there be evidence if there’s been no analysis?
The Google machine can give you lots of articles on how various people, whether in education, in government, or just private hackers, have been able to hack in to election systems. I’m kinda busy right now. Shouldn’t have sat down at all….
Ruckus
@Dave:
@Miss Bianca:
Dave, I like the concept of punishing the perps. They are fucking most of us, no question. And being out of fucks to give? How many of us aren’t there. I’d bet that is a much smaller number. But, and once again it is a big, round, firm but, it doesn’t work. It’s like punishing everyone by not allowing any cars because 10% of the population drives drunk. Sure those voters who thought drumpf is OK and HRC is a she devil are wrong. That that isn’t obviously wrong to them is a stunning revelation. But we live in a society that allows people to be wrong. That allows people to be horrible. What is supposed to happen in that type of society is that the individuals get punished for harming others, with degrees of punishment depending on the crime. Sure they shouldn’t have voted for drumpf, but that was their right to do, same as it was the right of people to vote for stein, or anyone else. So let’s punish the people that did and continue to do things that harm us, not people who exercised their right to be stupid. We need to know, was there vote fraud, was their foreign interference in our election, and that’s before, during or after? Was foreign money invested in candidates for office? Are people entrusted (or even not trusted) with running our government agents of a foreign government?
Let’s punish them.
Hopefully before the entire swamp catches on fire and consumes us all.
Adria McDowell
@Sab: Portman is touting this tax fuckery on practically every post on his Facebook page. I respond every single time with only one line- “You lie!” LOTS of people are not happy with him.
@Dorothy A. Winsor (formerly Iowa Old Lady): If this monstrosity passes, universities might as well shut down every single graduate department that isn’t STEM or business. It’s not like we in the humanities/social sciences/fine arts/education, etc. have any value in our society anyway.
Ruckus
@Sab:
It’s not trickled down economics
It’s tinkled down economics, as in getting pissed on economics.
If I had to complain to a politician, I’d use that till I was banned. Because calling it what they do is accepting the concept.
On further thought maybe they like getting pissed upon so they think everyone else probably does as well. Nothing wrong with a bit of consensual perversion, it’s when it isn’t consensual that it’s an issue. And really I don’t know of anyone who likes being financially pissed upon. Or the other way either but tastes do differ.
Uncle Cosmo
@MattF: Wonderful. Motherfucking paywall. Bezos can go fuck himself.
Ruckus
Another point.
A lot of the concepts that make up the current republican “economic” plan aren’t any different than what they have been pushing since at least the 70s, just the degree. I wonder if they are trying to make it so toxic that when all is said and done they back up a bit and we only get screwed a lot instead of massively, they think they can be heroes for saving the middle class. I know, I know it’s really far fetched and gives them far more credit than they ever have had or ever will deserve, but is it possible?
Steeplejack
@Uncle Cosmo:
Just right-click (or press and hold on a phone) and open it in a private or incognito tab/window.
geg6
@tobie:
Don’t know about that, but there’s a hugely important court case about redistricting that’s in front of the state Supreme Court that is gobbling up everyone’s attention. If this goes our way, this changes a lot in this state.
BubaDave
@Miss Bianca: +1 for quoting an excellent book by an excellent author
Uncle Cosmo
@Ruckus:
Pissing On Our Heads And Telling Us It’s Raining.
Also, the Thuglican bills are Tax DEform, not “reform”.
Chet Murthy
@dmsilev: I agree completely, that this whole grad student thing is craziness. But look at the bright side: if this goes thru, the *entirety* of higher education in America will be upended. *Every* professor, *every* administrator, *every* dean will be consumed with dealing with this crisis, as grad students quit. Talk about a way to heighten the contradictions!
[obligatory] //s
You don’t have to go to the obvious injustice of charging grad students for the right to be paid a pittance for doing the profs’ jobs for them. You really don’t. You can stick with: “gee, the reason the Uni doesn’t charge the grad students’ tuition for real, is that if they did, they’d have the *pay* *real* *wages*.”
Cain
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Probably because of the cold war
Cain
@Another Scott:
That isn’t enough. Once we get control we start taking steps to protect this republic, national vote by mail, constitutional changes. And we need to kick out any politicians that talk about bipartisanship. That time is over. The press should be completely ignored, it has been shown that they can be.
Cain
@Miss Bianca:
Goddam, you bought up an Emma Bull book that is a hell of a reference!
Albatrossity
They’re not doing this for their constituents, or for the country at large. They are doing this because their owners demanded it, and will cut off their welfare checks if they don’t come through with this “win”.
Sad
Ruckus
@Uncle Cosmo:
They aren’t even deform, they are destroy.
The kochsucker bros don’t want any taxes, nor any government. They want to be completely free to fuck over anyone they want and to steal everything they want. They are not alone in this endeavor. They think their money will protect them and if you don’t have enough, tough fucking shit for you. They might not enjoy living in a world where people like the mob don’t care about your gated property or your private security, they want what they want and will kill you as soon as look at you. Maybe/probably kill you on general principle and/or to steal your stuff. And not just some of your stuff, all of it. And they don’t like witnesses. Thing is with a working society there are people who will help you. In a society that no longer operates normally, they will help whomever is last standing.
I think a lot of the mob of the early 20th century is gone, but there are always people who will take their place. Always.
Dave
@Ruckus: I’m all for punishing the perps. Please enlighten me, with the GOP in control of all 3 branches of our federal government, how do we go about getting the perps even indicted, much less punished? Also, too, over 60 million people committed mass stupidity, I think that’s a little more than the 10% driving drunk. Sorry, I’m still on board with giving ’em what they voted for, hard.
Miss Bianca
@BubaDave: @Cain: one of my very faves. : )
Duane
@James E. Powell: Not all taxes are bad if it’s perceived as being used properly. A matter of priorities.
Jeffro
@Steeplejack: Yeah but last week I…we…were thinking that she needs to ‘convert’ and start voting Dem. She doesn’t and they don’t, they just need to commit to attaching the #NTs to the Dems until order is restored, I mean, until Trumpov is in jail.
Duane
@Jeffro: Any President in their right mind would say”They’re American citizens and I did what I could” and leave it there. Not this guy.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
A late reply (I’ve been out enjoying my Sunday). I don’t think this observation is controversial. I just think it’s wrong.
Steeplejack
@Jeffro:
I would love for Rubin to “convert.” I just don’t see any sign yet of it happening.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator: Its going to destroy federal tax revenues.
I guarantee that between this and cutting the IRS budget, tax evasion will escalate to levels not seen except in third world hellholes.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Social norms, customs and a deep respect for the law.
And now you know why we’re in such big trouble now.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
Tax evasion is already up. But the tax bill is such a lavish giveaway to plutocrats that they won’t need much evasion.
Much mischief will be due to letting tax exempt organizations become places where poliitical donations can be stashed and in letting these organizations and churches engage in more politics than they already do.
The outgoing IRS commissioner noted ongoing budget problems. He also noted that the service is losing veteran staff and is not really able to replace them.
On too of all this, Republicans love to demonize the IRS, but need them unless they are going to eliminate all taxation. I can show you places where Congress hastily wrote stupid tax legislation and then blithely directed the IRS to come up with suitable regulations to get them out of their mess.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator: Its not the rich who are going to be evading. Its going to be everyone else. Some of them aren’t going to have much of a choice. But what it will do is further destroy any respect for obeying the law.
This tax abomination really is the point of no return.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
It will be tough for people with income from wages to do anything more than grin and bear it.
A fair number of self employed people and people with rentals already cheat. Maybe they will cheat more. I don’t know.