Just heard staff report that the list of GOP amendments being tucked into tax bill came not from Senate but from K Street lobbyists. They are literally running the show.
Tweety is going on this again about how the D’s didn’t work to stop this bill.
Tumbrels are too good for him.
Frozen leg of lamb.
11.
Baud
So glad MSNBC hired George Will.
12.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer: There were reports that the additions were hand written.
13.
lamh36
@Corner Stone: yeah…saw that. Glad to hear the Dem strategist push back on that.
How eyeroll worthy was the comment by George Will about the intelligence of the American voter, on the hand…ok, some dunces, on the other hand…can Will be ANY more condescending and elitist…
14.
lamh36
So on this Flynn mess. I may be alone in this, but, here’s what I think…
Donald Trump is an idiot. He’s NOT really that smart but he thinks he is. he’s a man who stunt like he’s so smart and soooo clever, but he isn’t. He’s a vain man, who’s head can be turned if you stroke his ego enough.
I don’t believe Donald Trump is smart enough to orchestrate this entire Russia/Flynn fiasco on his own. What I do believe is that the people surrounding him, the kids, Kushner, Kellyanne, Bannon, Miller, Pence, Kelly, the rest of the of the Generals…etc…are smarter than he is.
They know how to get in his ear, and get him to turn his head in their direction and spout off their message. The problem they have is that Trump, who when off the script, is a complete train wreck, as evidenced by twitter and his off the cuff statements.
So I am totally convinced that they used Trump vanity and stupidity to their advantage and sure enough Trump’s dumb azz probably did exactly what they wanted…
And now the dumb azz is likely to go down for it!!!
15.
Edmund dantes
Tax bill is literally scribbling in margins.
Pages crossed out.
One page with a vertical line. Is it in bill or out? Who knows?
16.
PhoenixRising
hey…is there any procedural path of resistance here?
In my state, a party with 48 seats in the senate can stop the bus completely by refusing to appear for a quorum call. Anyone got their parliamentary hat on & can confirm that this isn’t an option?
It just seems weird the GOP minorities can stop things from happened but ours can’t.
I was just handed a 479-page tax bill a few hours before the vote. One page literally has hand scribbled policy changes on it that can’t be read. This is Washington, D.C. at its worst. Montanans deserve so much better. pic.twitter.com/q6lTpXoXS0— Senator Jon Tester (@SenatorTester) December 2, 2017
In legit banana republics they just throw all the opposition legislators in prison. Here that would be flagrantly unconstitutional, but that’s never stopped the goopers before.
Here’s the GOP substitute that we’re expected to read, analyze and vote on later tonight. Start reading now and let me know if you can get through it all before the GOP calls for a vote. https://t.co/n866nrIHJT
@randy khan: so that’s a Yes, and it’s not 3/5 or 2/3. I was curious because I know different states use different quora floors.
About 15 years ago IIRC some TX state legislators repaired to Albuquerque to postpone a vote. While they did stay in the part of town that once was Tejas/Mexico/Spain (east of the Rio Grande) the fact that they weren’t in Texas forced the GOP to hold the vote.
Wouldn’t it be wild if the parliamentarian did a thumbs down on this version, like what happened last night?
Actually, I don’t see how the parliamentarian has passed this. Byrd rule requires a CBO score.
33.
Yarrow
@lamh36: Of course they all used his vanity, ego, insecurity and so forth to manipulate him. They’re certainly not the first. The Russians have been manipulating Trump since the early 1990’s. They own him.
34.
PhoenixRising
next question: What exactly is the got dam hurry? Does reconciliation expire on a particular day or end of session?
@PhoenixRising: reconciliation expires like… next September. They’re rushing this for reasons that aren’t super clear to me.
42.
TenguPhule
@Fair Economist: I don’t see how this can be passed when you literally can’t even read some of the actual text of the bill.
It could make it legal to eat live kittens on camera for all we can tell.
43.
Jeffro
I’m having so much fun explaining “what did the president know, and when did he know it?” and “it’s the cover-up, not the crime” to my teenage daughter.
She’s like, “How do you KNOW all of this stuff?” I’m like “a) I’m old, and b) I read instead of watching TV or getting my #fakenews from FB”
They’re rushing this for reasons that aren’t super clear to me.
What part of Trump and Republicans need a win wasn’t explained to you? //
45.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Bernie is holding “rallies” this weekend in Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennystucky.
It’s hopeless to think he can get McConnell, Portman, and Toomey to flip (the latter 2 aren’t up for reelection for 5 more years).
While the odds are long he would be better off holding rallies in Maine (where he’s popular) and in Arizona to try to flip Collins and Flake – especially if he started mobilizing local opposition weeks ago, and not at the last minute.
So why is he going to Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennsytucky – well he lost those primaries in 2016 (the last 2 badly) and he cynically using this bill to kick off his 2020 primary campaign.
I’m thinking of taking up goat farming in Ontario. Talk me out of it.
47.
Mike in NC
@Baud: Tonight I made one of my infrequent visits to MSNBC, where there was a panel that included Jennifer Rubin and George Will, and I have to say everything they said sounded perfectly reasonable. Not what I’d have said of what they were writing while Obama was still in office.
@PhoenixRising: I’m betting they think they don’t have that much time with the Terrible Tyrant at the head of things. If he was a less crazy traitor, this could have been ok. but he’s too nuts and too seditious to be in this position for much longer.
Donald Trump is an idiot. He’s NOT really that smart but he thinks he is. he’s a man who stunt like he’s so smart and soooo clever, but he isn’t. He’s a vain man, who’s head can be turned if you stroke his ego enough.
I don’t believe Donald Trump is smart enough to orchestrate this entire Russia/Flynn fiasco on his own. What I do believe is that the people surrounding him, the kids, Kushner, Kellyanne, Bannon, Miller, Pence, Kelly, the rest of the of the Generals…etc…are smarter than he is.
They know how to get in his ear, and get him to turn his head in their direction and spout off their message. The problem they have is that Trump, who when off the script, is a complete train wreck, as evidenced by twitter and his off the cuff statements.
So I am totally convinced that they used Trump vanity and stupidity to their advantage and sure enough Trump’s dumb azz probably did exactly what they wanted…
And now the dumb azz is likely to go down for it!!!
I have said this before – I can see Trumpov himself being the last person to ‘flip’, once Mueller makes it clear he has Trumpov not just on obstruction, but can easily get him for the rest of his life on money laundering charges and take every last cent away under RICO. Not a dime for him and therefore not a dime for Ivanka – and Ivanka will HATE him until his dying days for that, so he’ll cave.
He’s going to be at that classic TV interrogation room table, face in his hands, combover drooping, and start to speak: “Ok, one more time: I first began laundering money for the Russian mob through my real estate projects back in 2004…”
51.
BlueDWarrior
Republicans should never be trusted to operate or negotiate in good faith. It was dead in the 90s with Gingrich, and McConnell is pissing on its corpse.
I think most Democrats understand this, when will centrist pundits understand is the question.
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: As it happens, Junior Bloor and I were doing the circuit of McLiberalArts Colleges in PA a few weeks ago. Isolated portions of the towns were progressive, but the “tucky” part was far more prominent and inyourface than the “Pennsyl” part everyplace else.
The notion that Sanders could have carried PA in 2016 or might do so in 2020 is ludicrous
56.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@B.B.A.: Research the history of Mexico in the 20th century.
57.
lgerard
I’m glad that Hatch got that amendment in baring employers from giving an employee a gift card as part of an achievement award…..nice touch.
58.
Omnes Omnibus
@dr. bloor: Farming or herding? Is there a difference? And why not sheep?
My theory is they’re all bumbling idiots who naively found themselves in the big league and postured accordingly. Their combined idiocies have gotten them where they are today.
60.
PhoenixRising
I actually don’t understand WTF they think is a ‘win’ about this tax cut.
The message I left for Rob Portman this morning: In 5 years my daughter will be a first year grad student, if she can afford tuition, and my dad will be living independently if he can afford medications, but if they’re both living with me because of a tax cut for private jets…I’m definitely gonna vote for whoever his opponent is. Regardless of what the ads he buys might say.
Voters much less engaged than I am are bound to observe that their aging parents are in their basements & post-college kids are in their attics. This isn’t subtle. It’s gutting Medicare AND tuition waivers at the same time that is hard not to notice.
So…why do they think $1.4MM of Koch cash will make 50% +1 OH voters not notice?
61.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@pacem appellant: Are you just now telling us you’re part of the junta, defending your superior tailoring choices as opposed to the other members?
@Mike in NC: I think Will and Rubin have figured out, belatedly, that the prion disease that has infected most of conservatism is metastasizng now. Better get out and promote yourself as a “sane conservative liberals can have high brow conservation with” while you still can.
So…why do they think $1.4MM of Koch cash will make 50% +1 OH voters not notice?
At this point, I think we have to assume most GOP lawmakers have either been completely blackmailed into voting for this crap, or have been told that if/when they lose their seat, they’ll be taken care of for life. And really, given what we know about wingnut welfare (that it’s endless, that you don’t have to do anything to ‘earn’ it), that’s probably not too far-fetched.
And considering the amounts involved here, the net benefit to the Kochs along, to say nothing of the rest of the .01%, they could give these Reps and Senators $1M/year each for life and it’d still be a HUGE gain.
68.
jl
As long as it’s a ‘legit’ banana republic, that is OK, then.
Also, turns out that most of the economists on the letter of support of tor GOP tax bill are fakes of some kind (edit: or may not exist at all, that is, are ‘ghosts’)
Edit: helpful tip to non-economists, if someone claims to be an economist and the credentials are mere membership in an economic association, almost all of them are open to anybody who coughs up the dough for journal subscriptions and newsletters. If they are a ‘fellow’ of something or other, that is different.
@dr. bloor: I have some relatives in Toronto. I am sure will let me crash at their place for sometime. Its been awhile since I last saw them.
ETA: Making/developing ice-cream flavors is my Canadian cousin’s expertise.
73.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: Oh and then next cycle, or perhaps the one after that, the Koch/Mercer-fueled GOP just runs another stooge who’ll do their bidding, vote their way for a term or two, and then cycle out. Lather, rinse, repeat. Unless we do something about that kind of big-donor Dark Money…
don’t believe Donald Trump is smart enough to orchestrate this entire Russia/Flynn fiasco on his own. What I do believe is that the people surrounding him, the kids, Kushner, Kellyanne, Bannon, Miller, Pence, Kelly, the rest of the of the Generals…etc…are smarter than he is.
I might agree, except there is a lot of evidence he is a micro-manager. People in his organization don’t do anything, without his approval.
I don’t think he will suddenly run the campaign differently.
On November 11, 2016, Christie was chairing a transition meeting, when, according to four sources, Flynn walked in with an ally, General Keith Kellogg. “Gentlemen, can I help you?” Christie asked. Ivanka Trump, who was a member of the transition team’s executive council, announced that she had invited them. Christie tried to reclaim control of the meeting, but Ivanka took over. Praising Flynn’s “amazing loyalty to my father,” she turned to him and asked, “General, what job do you want?” A participant at the meeting said, “It was like Princess Ivanka had laid the sword on Flynn’s shoulders and said, ‘Rise and go forth.’ ” (A source close to Ivanka didn’t deny the account, but said that it exaggerated her role, and that she was merely trying to show appreciation for Flynn’s support.)
@schrodingers_cat: I was born and mostly raised in Ontario. Trust me , we have a lot less winter here in southwestwrn NS. It’s the 1st of December and I was out in a t-shirt this afternoon.
78.
MikeEss
…I’m starting to think of Fridays in the same negative way I think of Mondays…bad things happen too often on Fridays. We got Flynn on his knees…but those assholes just sold most of us to the Kochs, Mercers, and Waltons…hardly a fair deal…
Because one of the things the GOP actually excels at is getting the electorate to blame Dems for the very things the GOP does via mass projection and deflection. It’s rarely failed yet.
80.
Shalimar
CNN is reporting that K.T. McFarland was the senior official who Flynn talked to on the 29th. She would basically be his deputy, so she would be relaying orders from someone more important. The pool report for that day at Mar-a-Lago doesn’t mention Kushner or Pence, which means the only people there senior to Flynn would be Bannon and Trump himself.
Goats are much more clever and interesting. Sheep are boring. That would be my reason. And I’ve been on farms with each. I still want another goat or two.
Looks like the notes are written by two different people, as the hand writing shifts from print to cursive as you go down the page.
83.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Baud: I was watching Morning Blow a couple of days ago on youtube and he had Reagan’s widow Dame Peggy Noonan on and she was clearly drunk, slurring her speech about how headline are so difficult to read these days. Yeah, when you have double vision, it does tend to make reading difficult.
84.
Skepticat
@dr. bloor: I’d be going with you if I didn’t already live in the Bahamas most of the year. Where I tell people I’m a Canadian because it’s so mortifying to be an America.
This week, the president of the United States shared with the entire world three inflammatory videos, at least one of them a proven fraud, with no point except to signal his contempt for Muslims. His staff followed up by saying that it didn’t matter whether the videos were real. “Thank God for Trump!” cried the egregious David Duke of Ku Klux Klan ignominy. “That’s why we love him!”
America’s greatest ally, Britain, responded with horror, because Trump’s hysterical tweets aggrandized a previously marginal hate group known as Britain First. But congressional leaders had little to say about this casual trashing of our national interest because they were too busy trying to salvage a trillion-dollar tax cut to “create jobs” in an economy that is already at or near full employment. Once again the Senate — formerly known as a weighty and deliberative institution — was ramming secret legislation through white-knuckle votes without hearings. At one point, desperate GOP leaders offered to raise taxes if growth stalls, which is exactly backward. The screaming dissonance makes your head hurt.
Investors, who ought to be wary of such fiscal recklessness, were instead caught up in manias of their own. Remember 2009, when everyone swore we’d never let our markets get drunk on consumer debt and sketchy assets again? According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, household debt has passed the pre-recession record of nearly $13 trillion — and that’s before what’s shaping up to be a holiday spending binge. Meanwhile, imaginary money known as bitcoin has been selling for $12,000 per . . . per what? Per unit of imaginary money, backed solely by the full faith and credit of other bitcoin believers. bitcoin is up nearly 1,000 percent this year. It’s the Dutch tulip craze, except that in Holland investors at least ended up with some bulbs when the bubble burst. When the bottom drops out of bitcoin, today’s giddy buyers might as well have a wallet full of Monopoly money.
And yet, the stock market keeps climbing.
It’s a wonderful thing that our society has finally decided to stick up for victims of creeps and perverts in positions of influence. But catching up with 25 years of yuck is consuming a tremendous amount of the nation’s attention span. In the past week alone, fill-in-the-blank number of formerly successful men were outed for various sexual offenses. I say fill-in-the-blank because the list is almost certain to grow in the hours between my filing of this column and your reading of it.
…
Everywhere you look the planet’s a-boil. Germany can’t form a government. China can’t — or won’t — rein in North Korea. Fascism is making a comeback in Europe, while Iran is tipping the balance of power in the Middle East. This sense of global chaos, which delights no one more than Trump’s buddy Vladimir Putin, is amplified by the void at the top of U.S. foreign policy, as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson twists in the wind.
Piling mania on mania makes life easy for cable news directors and heaps fuel on the Twitter garbage fire. But it makes sustained attention to long-term problems and opportunities nearly impossible. I was struck this week by the glancing attention given to a report by McKinsey Global Institute on the accelerating process of automating work. The think tank estimated that one-third of all U.S. jobs could be filled by robots and computers over the next dozen years.
This revolution may lead to greater prosperity and new kinds of work eventually, but it is likely to cause huge disruptions for the already battered American middle class. The challenge demands innovative responses from some of the least innovative sectors of society: government and education.
This is the sort of stuff we should be talking about. But it’s too loud for rational conversation. The volume is cranked to 11, and we’re headed for the cliff.
86.
Manyakitty
@BlueDWarrior: Yes. I lay all this at Newt’s feet.
87.
magurakurin
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: because Sanders is a fraud. Honestly, pretty much the number one thing that drains my hope is the fact that the “left”is still doubling down on a grifter, who like Trump, has still never shown his tax returns. I mean, wtaf?
The thing that has been stuck in my mind is if this bill passes with the grad school tax in place there will be a few dozen people in half the districts in the country who can be thrown on DNC campaign ads to say ” raised my taxes.”
And throw in some references to how it’s China that will own science now as US kids are financially discouraged from pushing deeper into STEM work.
90.
Manyakitty
@PhoenixRising: Maybe they have a surprise planned for our next election? They’re not even faking concern for the country, let alone their constituents.
@chris: I was in Quebec City once in December, and boy was I not ready for the frigid temperatures, despite having lived in Maine.
92.
Thoughtful David
@BlueDWarrior: Rubin in the last year has been saying a lot of things that need to be said, but she has decades of stuff to atone for. I don’t trust a single point-like particle of her being. If she says something like, “Well, I’ve been wrong my whole life, about everything. You liberals were right about everything, and Hillary Clinton really isn’t Satan,” I’ll still require her to repeat that in every column for a decade. She’s never owned up to her significant role in setting the stage for Trump.
Will is totally unforgivable. There is nothing he can do to earn redemption.
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s bad enough that mister purity, who did everything he could to undermine Clinton, isn’t doing anything to stop the bill, but he makes it worse by using the bill for personal cover to start his 2020 primary campaign.
96.
Manyakitty
@BlueDWarrior: @Mike in NC: They had Bill Kristol on this morning, and even that creepy old geezer was making sense.
I’m thinking of taking up goat farming in Ontario. Talk me out of it.
Have you ever tried to milk a goat?
98.
Corner Stone
@Manyakitty: And when they pass a bill stating that only white males with a net worth of $X are eligible to vote, who does anything about it?
99.
Eric S.
@lamh36: i completely agree with you on Trump’s stupidity. I’m less convinced his followers are that much smarter. Sure a handful have two brain cells to rub together but Jared and the kids?
I think the more likely explanation is Russia saw an easy mark, correctly read the political environment here, and took advantage.
I drink to make other people more interesting. I find that it has that effect on me too. #drinkiepoo
102.
scott alloway
@chris: I have been extolling Nova Scotia to she-who-must-be-obeyed for 35 years. I believe she is finally beginning to see the wisdom in it. We are both on SS now.
I have an awesome comment in moderation because of a typo in my e-mail. Help??????????
112.
chris
@scott alloway: I’ve lived in five provinces and travelled them all except Newfoundland. Wish I’d come here first.
113.
Manyakitty
@Corner Stone: sigh. They’re getting desperate and crazy. I fear armed uprising.
114.
catclub
@ChrisH: I wonder if universities will find some completely transparent way to adjust the tuition RATE for those students to keep them whole. Like in-state graduate assistant tuition rate.
Because one of the things the GOP actually excels at is getting the electorate to blame Dems for the very things the GOP does via mass projection and deflection. It’s rarely failed yet.
The benefit of having conservative billionaires willing to throw money around to buy up media.
There are no ideologically driven liberals, who happen to be billionaires to balance things out.
I am honestly surprised, with the media presence conservatives have they have not been more successful.
Are those human baby pajamas or was someone insane enough to sew up a dozen or so for the goat kids?
118.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: I prefer to think that they were sewn for the goats. It would make a for a more whimsical and interesting world than the other.
119.
Spider-Dan
@Fair Economist: It seems like they aren’t waiting for the parliamentarian to rule on the handwritten changes. But they are still going to have to go to conference, and by the time they do, the parliamentarian could rule that this bill violates the Byrd Rule and needs 60 votes. At that point, it either goes back for a re-vote, or the GOP has just shown the playbook by which the filibuster can be nullified once per fiscal year going forward: release a bill and vote on it before the CBO/parliamentarian have time to formulate a ruling.
120.
Corner Stone
I like that tie Chris Hayes has on, but can’t say I am a fan of that shirt to go with it.
While I agree that Trump is not a “smart” man, he has needed the Russians and became deeply involved with them because they OWN him — he is and has been up the yin yang with them for years. He has no choice but to do their bidding. So are the “kids”. The source of the corruption for this group is ties to a crime syndicate — the Russian government and the agreement is to destroy the functioning government of the United States. That is the ask.
125.
Peale
@lgerard: Jesus. Does he represent the useless corporate tchotchke industry or something?
A fairly connected Republican told me late today that he believes that the conference will be a non-conference, in that the House will agree to the Senate changes and just have its own vote on the Senate bill. I’m not as sure as he was, but we’ll see. That’s certainly the only way to get it done in the next week.
Well the cashier of the month might evade paying taxes on that $50 Walmart gift card!
132.
Mike in NC
@O. Felix Culpa: Cannot forget the scene in “Witness” where the Harrison Ford cop character is trying to milk a cow and the Amish farmer asks, ‘Have you never had a teat in your hand?’ and he replies, ‘Not one like this’.
We have good friends who raise dairy goats. You have to milk twice a day unless you leave the kids on their moms, in which case you can milk once a day. Goat shit smells really bad. They keep the buck in a separate pen/shed because bucks smell REALLY bad.
In Canada, you will want to be sure you build your herd of goats with good long coats, as it gets COLD in the winters.
But if you can learn how, you can make really great cheeses, in the French style. But it gets really cold. I don’t recall where you live now… maybe you’re used to cold weather. As I age into retirement, I don’t like cold as much as I did as a youth. Backpacking between the Solstice and New Year’s in the Cranberry Back Country at 4000 feet + was fun then, not so much now.
And there you have it, reason for and against. If you do go, can we come visit, say, in June?
134.
Spider-Dan
@Yarrow: Yeah, I know there doesn’t have to be an actual conference with discussion and changes. But “conference time” will still be on the agenda, and if the parliamentarian rules against the bill in the meantime, then Republicans pushing that (Byrd-violating) bill through the House anyway means the Byrd Rule has been replaced with the McConnell Rule: it is not necessary for the Senate parliamentarian and/or CBO to review reconciliation bills before passage.
@Manyakitty: And when they pass a bill stating that only white males with a net worth of $X are eligible to vote, who does anything about it?
We shoot them until they no longer have a majority. Against a wall.
138.
SgrAstar
@TenguPhule: That reminds me of a recent call I made to one of our repulsive rwnj senators. Before the staffer realized that he had an actual, honest-to-god libtard on the line, he had started joking about all the dumb libruls who were pointlessly calling their office. I mean, who cares what THEY think, right? Assholes, every one. GRRR.
Major Major Major Major
…did something happen?
B.B.A.
But Pelosi said we needed to pass the bill to see what’s in it, so both sides, hurr durr derp. /s
Cheryl Rofer
pacem appellant
I’ve been to Honduras. The weather is better here (here being the California Bay Area). And my suits rock! (granted, they’re from Central America)
Corner Stone
Tweety is going on this again about how the D’s didn’t work to stop this bill. Finally some kind of pushback at least.
Baud
@Corner Stone: I actually caught that. So insane.
TenguPhule
Speak for yourself.
TenguPhule
@pacem appellant: That’s not the trail you’re supposed to be hiking.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: That was Jowly Shields take too, Gerson was good, on the other hand. He didn’t make any excuses for Rs or gratuitously attack Ds.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone:
Tumbrels are too good for him.
Frozen leg of lamb.
Baud
So glad MSNBC hired George Will.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer: There were reports that the additions were hand written.
lamh36
@Corner Stone: yeah…saw that. Glad to hear the Dem strategist push back on that.
How eyeroll worthy was the comment by George Will about the intelligence of the American voter, on the hand…ok, some dunces, on the other hand…can Will be ANY more condescending and elitist…
lamh36
So on this Flynn mess. I may be alone in this, but, here’s what I think…
Donald Trump is an idiot. He’s NOT really that smart but he thinks he is. he’s a man who stunt like he’s so smart and soooo clever, but he isn’t. He’s a vain man, who’s head can be turned if you stroke his ego enough.
I don’t believe Donald Trump is smart enough to orchestrate this entire Russia/Flynn fiasco on his own. What I do believe is that the people surrounding him, the kids, Kushner, Kellyanne, Bannon, Miller, Pence, Kelly, the rest of the of the Generals…etc…are smarter than he is.
They know how to get in his ear, and get him to turn his head in their direction and spout off their message. The problem they have is that Trump, who when off the script, is a complete train wreck, as evidenced by twitter and his off the cuff statements.
So I am totally convinced that they used Trump vanity and stupidity to their advantage and sure enough Trump’s dumb azz probably did exactly what they wanted…
And now the dumb azz is likely to go down for it!!!
Edmund dantes
Tax bill is literally scribbling in margins.
Pages crossed out.
One page with a vertical line. Is it in bill or out? Who knows?
PhoenixRising
hey…is there any procedural path of resistance here?
In my state, a party with 48 seats in the senate can stop the bus completely by refusing to appear for a quorum call. Anyone got their parliamentary hat on & can confirm that this isn’t an option?
It just seems weird the GOP minorities can stop things from happened but ours can’t.
chris
@TenguPhule: video here.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@pacem appellant:
I have to take issue with this. The weather in Honduras is the best weather I’ve ever lived through.
Baud
@PhoenixRising: It’s not weird. They’re using reconciliation like the Dems did (although with far less process.)
NYCMT
@Baud: No, the Senate ACA bill passed with sixty votes.
Cheryl Rofer
@TenguPhule: Like this:
B.B.A.
In legit banana republics they just throw all the opposition legislators in prison. Here that would be flagrantly unconstitutional, but that’s never stopped the goopers before.
Major Major Major Major
@NYCMT: and the second part of the bill, along with student loan reform, passed via reconciliation.
PhoenixRising
@NYCMT: Right, and looking deeper…is there a quorum requirement in the US Senate?
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: @PhoenixRising: the fact that they’re using reconciliation is the Dems exercising their minority power.
As for quora I don’t know.
Baud
@NYCMT: There was a second bill that was passed at the same time that used reconciliation.
Cheryl Rofer
Bob Casey has the thing available as a download.
randy khan
@PhoenixRising:
Yes, but it’s half (or maybe half plus one, but it doesn’t matter) of the sitting Senators.
randy khan
Wouldn’t it be wild if the parliamentarian did a thumbs down on this version, like what happened last night?
Not gonna happen, but boy would it be funny.
rikyrah
They are sociopaths.
The entire lot of them.??
PhoenixRising
@randy khan: so that’s a Yes, and it’s not 3/5 or 2/3. I was curious because I know different states use different quora floors.
About 15 years ago IIRC some TX state legislators repaired to Albuquerque to postpone a vote. While they did stay in the part of town that once was Tejas/Mexico/Spain (east of the Rio Grande) the fact that they weren’t in Texas forced the GOP to hold the vote.
Fair Economist
@randy khan:
Actually, I don’t see how the parliamentarian has passed this. Byrd rule requires a CBO score.
Yarrow
@lamh36: Of course they all used his vanity, ego, insecurity and so forth to manipulate him. They’re certainly not the first. The Russians have been manipulating Trump since the early 1990’s. They own him.
PhoenixRising
next question: What exactly is the got dam hurry? Does reconciliation expire on a particular day or end of session?
pacem appellant
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): They have rain! Lots of rain! And the humidity was pegged at 100%. But it wasn’t hot like Nicaragua. That country melted me.
B.B.A.
@PhoenixRising: Appropriations run out on the 8th. Special election in Alabama on the 12th.
Omnes Omnibus
@PhoenixRising: Fourteen WI senators fled to IL to deny a quorum during the union law fight.
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer: /Facepalm
Aimai
@TenguPhule: i remember that story!
Corner Stone
I like this Chuck Rosenberg guy.
Major Major Major Major
@PhoenixRising: reconciliation expires like… next September. They’re rushing this for reasons that aren’t super clear to me.
TenguPhule
@Fair Economist: I don’t see how this can be passed when you literally can’t even read some of the actual text of the bill.
It could make it legal to eat live kittens on camera for all we can tell.
Jeffro
I’m having so much fun explaining “what did the president know, and when did he know it?” and “it’s the cover-up, not the crime” to my teenage daughter.
She’s like, “How do you KNOW all of this stuff?” I’m like “a) I’m old, and b) I read instead of watching TV or getting my #fakenews from FB”
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
What part of Trump and Republicans need a win wasn’t explained to you? //
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Bernie is holding “rallies” this weekend in Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennystucky.
It’s hopeless to think he can get McConnell, Portman, and Toomey to flip (the latter 2 aren’t up for reelection for 5 more years).
While the odds are long he would be better off holding rallies in Maine (where he’s popular) and in Arizona to try to flip Collins and Flake – especially if he started mobilizing local opposition weeks ago, and not at the last minute.
So why is he going to Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennsytucky – well he lost those primaries in 2016 (the last 2 badly) and he cynically using this bill to kick off his 2020 primary campaign.
dr. bloor
I’m thinking of taking up goat farming in Ontario. Talk me out of it.
Mike in NC
@Baud: Tonight I made one of my infrequent visits to MSNBC, where there was a panel that included Jennifer Rubin and George Will, and I have to say everything they said sounded perfectly reasonable. Not what I’d have said of what they were writing while Obama was still in office.
SiubhanDuinne
@TenguPhule:
There you go.
ruemara
@PhoenixRising: I’m betting they think they don’t have that much time with the Terrible Tyrant at the head of things. If he was a less crazy traitor, this could have been ok. but he’s too nuts and too seditious to be in this position for much longer.
Jeffro
@lamh36:
I have said this before – I can see Trumpov himself being the last person to ‘flip’, once Mueller makes it clear he has Trumpov not just on obstruction, but can easily get him for the rest of his life on money laundering charges and take every last cent away under RICO. Not a dime for him and therefore not a dime for Ivanka – and Ivanka will HATE him until his dying days for that, so he’ll cave.
He’s going to be at that classic TV interrogation room table, face in his hands, combover drooping, and start to speak: “Ok, one more time: I first began laundering money for the Russian mob through my real estate projects back in 2004…”
BlueDWarrior
Republicans should never be trusted to operate or negotiate in good faith. It was dead in the 90s with Gingrich, and McConnell is pissing on its corpse.
I think most Democrats understand this, when will centrist pundits understand is the question.
Major Major Major Major
@dr. bloor: no.
chris
@dr. bloor: Nova Scotia is cheaper. And prettier.
Jeffro
@Mike in NC: I was watching that too! Rubin needs to ease up on the orange face powder.
dr. bloor
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: As it happens, Junior Bloor and I were doing the circuit of McLiberalArts Colleges in PA a few weeks ago. Isolated portions of the towns were progressive, but the “tucky” part was far more prominent and inyourface than the “Pennsyl” part everyplace else.
The notion that Sanders could have carried PA in 2016 or might do so in 2020 is ludicrous
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@B.B.A.: Research the history of Mexico in the 20th century.
lgerard
I’m glad that Hatch got that amendment in baring employers from giving an employee a gift card as part of an achievement award…..nice touch.
Omnes Omnibus
@dr. bloor: Farming or herding? Is there a difference? And why not sheep?
debbie
@lamh36:
My theory is they’re all bumbling idiots who naively found themselves in the big league and postured accordingly. Their combined idiocies have gotten them where they are today.
PhoenixRising
I actually don’t understand WTF they think is a ‘win’ about this tax cut.
The message I left for Rob Portman this morning: In 5 years my daughter will be a first year grad student, if she can afford tuition, and my dad will be living independently if he can afford medications, but if they’re both living with me because of a tax cut for private jets…I’m definitely gonna vote for whoever his opponent is. Regardless of what the ads he buys might say.
Voters much less engaged than I am are bound to observe that their aging parents are in their basements & post-college kids are in their attics. This isn’t subtle. It’s gutting Medicare AND tuition waivers at the same time that is hard not to notice.
So…why do they think $1.4MM of Koch cash will make 50% +1 OH voters not notice?
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@pacem appellant: Are you just now telling us you’re part of the junta, defending your superior tailoring choices as opposed to the other members?
chopper
@dr. bloor:
ontario is cold and aw, fuck it (grabs hockey mask)
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Because Rust Belt and economic anxiety, that’s why.
BlueDWarrior
@Mike in NC: I think Will and Rubin have figured out, belatedly, that the prion disease that has infected most of conservatism is metastasizng now. Better get out and promote yourself as a “sane conservative liberals can have high brow conservation with” while you still can.
schrodingers_cat
@chris: Too cold. Brrrr.
dr. bloor
@Omnes Omnibus: Herding, I guess. Seems less dangerous that marijuana farming, which was my first thought.
As for goats over sheep, well, I’ve never seen any sheep in pajamas.
Jeffro
@PhoenixRising:
At this point, I think we have to assume most GOP lawmakers have either been completely blackmailed into voting for this crap, or have been told that if/when they lose their seat, they’ll be taken care of for life. And really, given what we know about wingnut welfare (that it’s endless, that you don’t have to do anything to ‘earn’ it), that’s probably not too far-fetched.
And considering the amounts involved here, the net benefit to the Kochs along, to say nothing of the rest of the .01%, they could give these Reps and Senators $1M/year each for life and it’d still be a HUGE gain.
jl
As long as it’s a ‘legit’ banana republic, that is OK, then.
Also, turns out that most of the economists on the letter of support of tor GOP tax bill are fakes of some kind (edit: or may not exist at all, that is, are ‘ghosts’)
@jasonfurman
” More about the “economists” the White House and Congressional Republicans have been citing in their claim that tax cuts pay for themselves. ”
https://twitter.com/jasonfurman/status/936736875783606272
Edit: helpful tip to non-economists, if someone claims to be an economist and the credentials are mere membership in an economic association, almost all of them are open to anybody who coughs up the dough for journal subscriptions and newsletters. If they are a ‘fellow’ of something or other, that is different.
Major Major Major Major
@PhoenixRising:
Wouldn’t be the first time.
raven
@dr. bloor: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
debbie
@PhoenixRising:
Except that Portman never has an opponent.
schrodingers_cat
@dr. bloor: I have some relatives in Toronto. I am sure will let me crash at their place for sometime. Its been awhile since I last saw them.
ETA: Making/developing ice-cream flavors is my Canadian cousin’s expertise.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: Oh and then next cycle, or perhaps the one after that, the Koch/Mercer-fueled GOP just runs another stooge who’ll do their bidding, vote their way for a term or two, and then cycle out. Lather, rinse, repeat. Unless we do something about that kind of big-donor Dark Money…
gene108
@lamh36:
I might agree, except there is a lot of evidence he is a micro-manager. People in his organization don’t do anything, without his approval.
I don’t think he will suddenly run the campaign differently.
Manyakitty
@Cheryl Rofer: Son of a bitch.
Yarrow
Cannot wait to see Ivanka in an orange jumpsuit.
Link.
chris
@schrodingers_cat: I was born and mostly raised in Ontario. Trust me , we have a lot less winter here in southwestwrn NS. It’s the 1st of December and I was out in a t-shirt this afternoon.
MikeEss
…I’m starting to think of Fridays in the same negative way I think of Mondays…bad things happen too often on Fridays. We got Flynn on his knees…but those assholes just sold most of us to the Kochs, Mercers, and Waltons…hardly a fair deal…
Kryptik
@PhoenixRising:
Because one of the things the GOP actually excels at is getting the electorate to blame Dems for the very things the GOP does via mass projection and deflection. It’s rarely failed yet.
Shalimar
CNN is reporting that K.T. McFarland was the senior official who Flynn talked to on the 29th. She would basically be his deputy, so she would be relaying orders from someone more important. The pool report for that day at Mar-a-Lago doesn’t mention Kushner or Pence, which means the only people there senior to Flynn would be Bannon and Trump himself.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus:
Goats are much more clever and interesting. Sheep are boring. That would be my reason. And I’ve been on farms with each. I still want another goat or two.
gene108
@Cheryl Rofer:
Looks like the notes are written by two different people, as the hand writing shifts from print to cursive as you go down the page.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Baud: I was watching Morning Blow a couple of days ago on youtube and he had Reagan’s widow Dame Peggy Noonan on and she was clearly drunk, slurring her speech about how headline are so difficult to read these days. Yeah, when you have double vision, it does tend to make reading difficult.
Skepticat
@dr. bloor: I’d be going with you if I didn’t already live in the Bahamas most of the year. Where I tell people I’m a Canadian because it’s so mortifying to be an America.
Jeffro
Hey Cole, David von Drehle agrees with you about “Craziness”: The Volume Is All The Way Up To 11
Manyakitty
@BlueDWarrior: Yes. I lay all this at Newt’s feet.
magurakurin
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: because Sanders is a fraud. Honestly, pretty much the number one thing that drains my hope is the fact that the “left”is still doubling down on a grifter, who like Trump, has still never shown his tax returns. I mean, wtaf?
Omnes Omnibus
@dr. bloor: But if you have a clever sheep….
ChrisH
The thing that has been stuck in my mind is if this bill passes with the grad school tax in place there will be a few dozen people in half the districts in the country who can be thrown on DNC campaign ads to say ” raised my taxes.”
And throw in some references to how it’s China that will own science now as US kids are financially discouraged from pushing deeper into STEM work.
Manyakitty
@PhoenixRising: Maybe they have a surprise planned for our next election? They’re not even faking concern for the country, let alone their constituents.
schrodingers_cat
@chris: I was in Quebec City once in December, and boy was I not ready for the frigid temperatures, despite having lived in Maine.
Thoughtful David
@BlueDWarrior: Rubin in the last year has been saying a lot of things that need to be said, but she has decades of stuff to atone for. I don’t trust a single point-like particle of her being. If she says something like, “Well, I’ve been wrong my whole life, about everything. You liberals were right about everything, and Hillary Clinton really isn’t Satan,” I’ll still require her to repeat that in every column for a decade. She’s never owned up to her significant role in setting the stage for Trump.
Will is totally unforgivable. There is nothing he can do to earn redemption.
Kryptik
@Manyakitty:
The surprise likely involves Kris Kobach.
They’re acting like a cadre that doesn’t have to worry about free and open elections ever again. That may be precisely because they won’t.
Yoda Dog
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Was she drunk though? She’s always like that. But then, perhaps she is always drunk…
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s bad enough that mister purity, who did everything he could to undermine Clinton, isn’t doing anything to stop the bill, but he makes it worse by using the bill for personal cover to start his 2020 primary campaign.
Manyakitty
@BlueDWarrior: @Mike in NC: They had Bill Kristol on this morning, and even that creepy old geezer was making sense.
TenguPhule
@dr. bloor:
Have you ever tried to milk a goat?
Corner Stone
@Manyakitty: And when they pass a bill stating that only white males with a net worth of $X are eligible to vote, who does anything about it?
Eric S.
@lamh36: i completely agree with you on Trump’s stupidity. I’m less convinced his followers are that much smarter. Sure a handful have two brain cells to rub together but Jared and the kids?
I think the more likely explanation is Russia saw an easy mark, correctly read the political environment here, and took advantage.
TenguPhule
@Jeffro:
More likely he’ll try to kill everyone in the room with him.
“Trump may die, but the legend endures!”
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Yoda Dog: she’s a well known alcoholic.
there’s even a Drunk Peggy Noonan twitter feed:
scott alloway
@chris: I have been extolling Nova Scotia to she-who-must-be-obeyed for 35 years. I believe she is finally beginning to see the wisdom in it. We are both on SS now.
TenguPhule
@BlueDWarrior:
Some time after the heat death of the Universe.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Merci. C’est formidable!
catclub
I was hoping that the taxing of tuition waivers for grad students gets applied to student athletes.
chris
@schrodingers_cat: Haha, that’s just late fall. Try February with a refreshing breeze from the north pole.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Beh! Beh!
TenguPhule
@PhoenixRising:
Because it will be done on a touch-screen Koch approved voting machine.
gene108
@gene108:
I have a comment in moderation that wants to be free.
Manyakitty
@Kryptik: yeah. ?
gene108
I have an awesome comment in moderation because of a typo in my e-mail. Help??????????
chris
@scott alloway: I’ve lived in five provinces and travelled them all except Newfoundland. Wish I’d come here first.
Manyakitty
@Corner Stone: sigh. They’re getting desperate and crazy. I fear armed uprising.
catclub
@ChrisH: I wonder if universities will find some completely transparent way to adjust the tuition RATE for those students to keep them whole. Like in-state graduate assistant tuition rate.
Yoda Dog
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Explains a lot about Peggy, really..
gene108
@Kryptik:
The benefit of having conservative billionaires willing to throw money around to buy up media.
There are no ideologically driven liberals, who happen to be billionaires to balance things out.
I am honestly surprised, with the media presence conservatives have they have not been more successful.
debbie
@dr. bloor:
Are those human baby pajamas or was someone insane enough to sew up a dozen or so for the goat kids?
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: I prefer to think that they were sewn for the goats. It would make a for a more whimsical and interesting world than the other.
Spider-Dan
@Fair Economist: It seems like they aren’t waiting for the parliamentarian to rule on the handwritten changes. But they are still going to have to go to conference, and by the time they do, the parliamentarian could rule that this bill violates the Byrd Rule and needs 60 votes. At that point, it either goes back for a re-vote, or the GOP has just shown the playbook by which the filibuster can be nullified once per fiscal year going forward: release a bill and vote on it before the CBO/parliamentarian have time to formulate a ruling.
Corner Stone
I like that tie Chris Hayes has on, but can’t say I am a fan of that shirt to go with it.
dr. bloor
@debbie: I think they’re custom goat jammies. Which raises another possibility for expat career…
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sheep are a lot harder than goats. Dairy goats are nice. But either way, farming is a lot of hard work.
Yarrow
@Spider-Dan: It doesn’t have to go to conference if the House votes on the Senate bill.
Elie
@lamh36:
While I agree that Trump is not a “smart” man, he has needed the Russians and became deeply involved with them because they OWN him — he is and has been up the yin yang with them for years. He has no choice but to do their bidding. So are the “kids”. The source of the corruption for this group is ties to a crime syndicate — the Russian government and the agreement is to destroy the functioning government of the United States. That is the ask.
Peale
@lgerard: Jesus. Does he represent the useless corporate tchotchke industry or something?
randy khan
@Spider-Dan:
A fairly connected Republican told me late today that he believes that the conference will be a non-conference, in that the House will agree to the Senate changes and just have its own vote on the Senate bill. I’m not as sure as he was, but we’ll see. That’s certainly the only way to get it done in the next week.
O. Felix Culpa
@TenguPhule:
Yes. It’s not that hard with the right equipment.
Steeplejack
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, needs a white shirt to make it pop. Light blue no bueno.
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think you’re right. One kid’s P.J.s were a lobster print which I wouldn’t think a mother would want for her baby.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
This morning I milked a goat in my pajamas.
How it got in my pajamas, I’ll never know.
;)
lgerard
@Peale:
Well the cashier of the month might evade paying taxes on that $50 Walmart gift card!
Mike in NC
@O. Felix Culpa: Cannot forget the scene in “Witness” where the Harrison Ford cop character is trying to milk a cow and the Amish farmer asks, ‘Have you never had a teat in your hand?’ and he replies, ‘Not one like this’.
J R in WV
@dr. bloor:
We have good friends who raise dairy goats. You have to milk twice a day unless you leave the kids on their moms, in which case you can milk once a day. Goat shit smells really bad. They keep the buck in a separate pen/shed because bucks smell REALLY bad.
In Canada, you will want to be sure you build your herd of goats with good long coats, as it gets COLD in the winters.
But if you can learn how, you can make really great cheeses, in the French style. But it gets really cold. I don’t recall where you live now… maybe you’re used to cold weather. As I age into retirement, I don’t like cold as much as I did as a youth. Backpacking between the Solstice and New Year’s in the Cranberry Back Country at 4000 feet + was fun then, not so much now.
And there you have it, reason for and against. If you do go, can we come visit, say, in June?
Spider-Dan
@Yarrow: Yeah, I know there doesn’t have to be an actual conference with discussion and changes. But “conference time” will still be on the agenda, and if the parliamentarian rules against the bill in the meantime, then Republicans pushing that (Byrd-violating) bill through the House anyway means the Byrd Rule has been replaced with the McConnell Rule: it is not necessary for the Senate parliamentarian and/or CBO to review reconciliation bills before passage.
NotMax
@J R in WV
Climate change. Looking forward to those juicy Yukon peaches.
OT: Hope you don’t mind the use of your baking debacle at #67 in the Read The Bill thread above.
JoeyJoeJoe
@B.B.A.: Isn’t that what the Bush DoJ did to Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman back in 2002, to make sure he wouldn’t be reelected?
THE fog comes on little cat feet. It sits looking over harbor and city on silent haunches and then moves on.
@Corner Stone:
We shoot them until they no longer have a majority. Against a wall.
SgrAstar
@TenguPhule: That reminds me of a recent call I made to one of our repulsive rwnj senators. Before the staffer realized that he had an actual, honest-to-god libtard on the line, he had started joking about all the dumb libruls who were pointlessly calling their office. I mean, who cares what THEY think, right? Assholes, every one. GRRR.
J R in WV
@NotMax:
I’ve had several… Oh, the fresh pineapple predigesting the cake batter – NEVER DO THIS, Not ever!! Slime under a cute thin layer of cooked batter.
It is a lot like the Republican Tax The Poor Bill, a whole lot like!!