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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Spartans Reject Nazis

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Spartans Reject Nazis

by Anne Laurie|  March 6, 20186:01 am| 159 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Are these Nazis Walter?, Clown Shoes, Just Shut the Fuck Up

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Sad man in a suit speaking to a teeny tiny audience in the Livestock Pavilion. pic.twitter.com/hSOHW3Hz9s

— David Harns (@DavidHarns) March 5, 2018

Saddest turnout for anything I’ve ever seen, @RichardBSpencer. This must hurt more than that time you got punched in the fucking face.

????? pic.twitter.com/FWWElS95p5

— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) March 6, 2018

I spent fifteen springs at MSU, so this story called up memories. From the Chicago Tribune:

Fights broke out between white supremacists and protesters Monday as anti-fascist activists, students and community members converged in and around Michigan State University to counter a speech by white nationalist Richard Spencer…

As some of Spencer’s supporters and people planning to attend the speech arrived on campus, masked protesters shouted obscenities at white supremacists and at police. A group of white nationalists marching down the road toward the speech venue – Pavilion for Agriculture and Livestock Education – were blocked by protesters. Shouts turned to punches thrown at protesters, but the group was forced by protesters away from the pavilion where Spencer later spoke…

The MSU campus is on spring break this week, which is not a coincidence. The timing and the venue of the speech were chosen to minimize the risk of violence and disruption to campus, according to university officials.

The Pavilion for Agriculture is a small arena well south of the campus’s developed core. Beyond it is farmland used primarily for research.…

Nice subtext (P.A.L.E.) from the university management. Unless things have changed a great deal since we left in 1989, it’s just about the right time for the extension farms to have started the annual process of recycling a winter’s worth of barn manure to fertilize the experimental field crops. So for once, the sinus-clearing aroma surrounding Spencer and his marks supporters would not have been metaphorical bullshit / chickenshit / pigshit…

(Per the tweet pics: Spencer claims that 150 advance tickets were given out, but the fearsome protestors discouraged his valiant supporters from showing up. Sad!)

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Reader Interactions

159Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2018 at 6:07 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  2. 2.

    Quinerly

    March 6, 2018 at 6:10 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning from Poco and his tribe!?

  3. 3.

    raven

    March 6, 2018 at 6:13 am

    Like Sparty doesn’t have enough problems!

  4. 4.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 6:14 am

    @rikyrah: good morning ?! ☕☕ time!

  5. 5.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 6:17 am

    It wouldn’t surprise me that the Nazi could get an audience of 150 in that area. That almost all would be easily discouraged by protesters also doesn’t surprise me, they’re a chickenshit bunch. The setting was very appropriate.

  6. 6.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    March 6, 2018 at 6:19 am

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning!?

  7. 7.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 6:21 am

    Good Lord, Spencer’s haircut! Do barbershops have the Nazi Special on a list? I mean, how do you ask for that cut?

  8. 8.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 6:24 am

    @rikyrah: good morning!
    I’m supposed to be asleep so I can get up in 2 1/2 hours to drive across LA to the airport and fly to Orlando for a couple of days. Birthday trip to Disneyworld for the two of us plus the middle kid who will get there ahead of us. bunch of March birthdays. Lots of fun.

  9. 9.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 6:29 am

    @opiejeanne: Have a good time and Happy Birthday to all the celebrants. You can sleep on the plane ☺

  10. 10.

    SectionH

    March 6, 2018 at 6:29 am

    @rikyrah: Good Morning!

  11. 11.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 6:32 am

    And up top, at least two in the audience look like academics there for research on Nazis in the wild.

  12. 12.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 6, 2018 at 6:33 am

    So Ryan is finally standing up to Trump on the tariffs issue. I guess trade is the only issue that concerns Ryan enough to differentiate himself from Trump since he’s been kissing Trump’s butt on everything else.

  13. 13.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 6, 2018 at 6:34 am

    I think he was telling the truth. What we’ve seen is that the hardcore racists thought that Trump’s election meant they could safely come out of the closet and strut their stuff. After all, more than half of whites and the vast majority of the national press think they have a point.

    What they failed to realize is that everyone who wasn’t Republican hates their fucking guts. The flip side of the massively entrenched ‘look the other way’ attitude among whites is that the moderate racists aren’t going to stick their necks out for out-and-out Nazis.

    Like satby said, they’re chickenshits. We’re chasing them back into their hole. And by god, when we get power let’s clean them out. I don’t mean violence. I mean laws to make their cowardly harassment tactics punishable. Make them afraid to even admit their hate.

  14. 14.

    dm

    March 6, 2018 at 6:36 am

    Shouldn’t they have put him beyond the pale?

  15. 15.

    raven

    March 6, 2018 at 6:37 am

    Mudbound sucks.

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2018 at 6:38 am

    The end of civilization as we know it*.

    Health officials in France have just published an open letter in the newspaper Le Figaro warning the public about the dangers of wine Source

    *Okay, okay, hyperbole, but still….

  17. 17.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 6, 2018 at 6:39 am

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Like I’ve been saying, just because they don’t want to give liberals a win doesn’t mean congress supports Trump himself. They detest him. On the rare occasions they disagree with him, they don’t give him what he wants.

  18. 18.

    Ohio Mom

    March 6, 2018 at 6:40 am

    Good morning one and all!

    Spencer’s suit is weird. It almost has an empire waist thing going.

  19. 19.

    Amir Khalid

    March 6, 2018 at 6:41 am

    A good time-of-the-day to one and all.

    I’m curious to know: when Spencer and his nasty ilk are confronted with such stark evidence of their movement’s unpopularity, how do they react? Do they acknowledge it in some way, and paint themselves as Cassandras or martyrs? Do they accuse the media of lies and/or distortion? Do they blame “antifa”?

  20. 20.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 6:42 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: evidently about 40 showed up to fight with antifa protesters, those who wanted to hear Spencer were escorted into the hall by police, but several more either got arrested or were just there to fight.

    Even if they had all gone in, 150 is a tiny crowd; pathetic that Spencer would claim that as a total.

  21. 21.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 6:43 am

    @NotMax: Life is hazardous to one’s health.

  22. 22.

    different-church-lady

    March 6, 2018 at 6:45 am

    “Yeah, well nobody watched the Oscars, so SUCK IT, LIBTURDS!!!1!”

  23. 23.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2018 at 6:46 am

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Have long pointed out to all and sundry that life is a four-letter word.

    ;)

  24. 24.

    Amir Khalid

    March 6, 2018 at 6:46 am

    @opiejeanne:
    Many happy returns of the day — or as many as you wish for. You have my sympathies. LAX is the one place in America that I learned to hate.

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 6:49 am

    @raven: Something I’ll bet you didn’t know:

    Wreckage from the USS Lexington, an aircraft carrier that sank during the second world war, has been found in the Coral Sea by a search team led by the Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. The wreckage was found on Sunday by the team’s research vessel, the R/V Petrel, about 3,000m (two miles) below the surface and more than 500 miles (800km) off the eastern coast of Australia.

    The team released pictures and video of the wreckage of the Lexington – one of the first ever US aircraft carriers – and some of the planes that went down with it. Remarkably preserved aircraft could be seen on the seabed bearing the five-pointed star insignia of the US Army Air Forces on their wings and fuselage.

    Yep, you read that right, the US Army Air Force was flying off of US Navy ships.

  26. 26.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 6:50 am

    Was a nice clear day here in LA yesterday, so I went over to the Baldwin Hills to take some pics. Here’s one of Downtown LA with snow capped Mount San Antonio in the background.

  27. 27.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 6:51 am

    @Amir Khalid: LAX is to be avoided at all costs; unless we were flying internationally, we’d always use Burbank.

  28. 28.

    TS

    March 6, 2018 at 6:53 am

    @Ohio Mom:

    Spencer’s suit is weird. It almost has an empire waist thing going.

    Looked to me like 1930s vintage Europe.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2018 at 6:54 am

    @opiejeanne

    For you and yours.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 6:54 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    March 6, 2018 at 6:56 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I love when snow is on the mountains. Beautiful photo.

    Woo hoo, internet is back. Hope it stays.

    Good morning, all.

  32. 32.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 6, 2018 at 6:58 am

    @satby:
    It is tiny. When they got pushback, their marches started dwindling fast. The ones brave enough to actually show up are even fewer.

  33. 33.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:01 am

    @Elizabelle: Thanks, last Tuesday we had lots of snow on the mountains due to a really cold storm on Monday night. The storm over the weekend was wetter but warmer so it washed away the snow at the lower elevations but dumped lots of snow up higher.

  34. 34.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 7:02 am

    It snowed last night, only an inch. Will melt today and then it’ll rain tonight, turning to freezing rain. We’re still under flood warnings in this area, the river is high but not over topping the banks here. But it wouldn’t take much more water to flood again.

    Spring needs to come. Daylight savings starts next weekend!

  35. 35.

    debbie

    March 6, 2018 at 7:05 am

    @opiejeanne:

    You consult historical photographs and ask the barber to emulate the haircut of the man you idolize.

  36. 36.

    MomSense

    March 6, 2018 at 7:06 am

    @satby:

    We have a blizzard warning for tomorrow and Thursday so I join your wish for spring to hurry up.

  37. 37.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:07 am

    @satby:

    Daylight savings starts next weekend!

    This will confuse my dogs.

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    March 6, 2018 at 7:07 am

    @Ohio Mom: It does look strange. Could be a bulletproof vest under there.

  39. 39.

    Elizabelle

    March 6, 2018 at 7:08 am

    I’m actually interested in another sad story out of Michigan. The young college student who killed his parents in his own dorm room with his father’s gun. College had called parents to come collect their son, because he was behaving erratically.

    Chicago Tribune: Cops: Student acted erratically day before he killed his parents at Central Michigan University

    This one has been of interest to me because, being a young black male, the initial story was “drugs, drugs, the kid said he took drugs”, when it looks so much like a kid having a psychotic break (and his is the age when schizophrenia often manifests).

    Have you been following this one? I want to hear the full story. If this was not “drugs, drugs, drugs”, I’d like to see heavy pushback against any authorities and media that pushed that line.

    Do you guys know more? Tragic case.

    From Chicago Tribune: they were screaming “drugs” a lot more in the initial reporting than in this story, and their later followup “relatives still love this college student” item didn’t mention drugs at all.

    Hours later, officers spotted Davis Jr. in a dorm hallway with his suitcases, Yeagley said. When officers tried to talk to him, he again wasn’t making sense, Yeagley said, adding that the student was acting “in a fashion that isn’t reasonable or logical.” They asked Davis Jr. to call his parents, which he did. An officer then spoke to Davis’ mother, Diva Davis, told them about her son’s behavior, their concerns about possible drug use and asked her whether he had a history of drug use, Yeagley said.

    “The mother said she too was concerned this could be drugs,” he said. He declined to say whether drugs were found in Davis Jr.’s system.

  40. 40.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:09 am

    @Amir Khalid: Thank you for the kind wishes. I don’t hate LAX, have never had trouble there and I’ve been in worse airports. Far worse.
    We have a layover today at George Bush Intercontinental* of about 80 minutes so we get to find out if I hate that airport. I hate that it’s not a direct flight to Orlando but this flight was cheap. Coming back is a direct flight that cost less, go figure.

    *Is Intercontinental fancier than International?

  41. 41.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:11 am

    @satby: Thank you. Mister opiejeanne turned 71 yesterday, and in a few days I’ll be 68. Still a pair of kids.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:11 am

    @TS: Hitler wore one just like it.

  43. 43.

    Elizabelle

    March 6, 2018 at 7:12 am

    @opiejeanne: Have fun in the sun. Happy birthdays.

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    March 6, 2018 at 7:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yeah, no. That’s some British newspaper inaccuracy there. The five-pointed star was used by all aviation branches. Check this picture of a Navy Hellcat. Thirty seconds on the Google.

  45. 45.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:13 am

    @opiejeanne:

    Is Intercontinental fancier than International?

    It’s Texas, they have to be different.

  46. 46.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:14 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Very nice. We could see the ocean from Rim of the World Drive (Highway 18) coming down from Lake Arrowhead. Not only the ocean, but it was clear enough to make out ships. Probably Long Beach Harbor, we think. I didn’t have a camera with a decent lens along or we’d have stopped to photograph it.

  47. 47.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 7:15 am

    @opiejeanne: Whippersnappers.

  48. 48.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:15 am

    @opiejeanne: Happy belated to Mr. oppiejeanne and to you as well. Yesterday was madame’s fake(legal)* b-day.

    *Long story, but short version is her dad was lazy.

  49. 49.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 7:16 am

    @Elizabelle: not much more info has been released, but it does sound like the kid had a psychotic break.
    And the danger of a gun in the house is more that it will be used by a family member either to commit suicide or kill another family member. Cop families are just as in danger as any other family with a gun.

  50. 50.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:18 am

    @Betty Cracker: DING DING DING!! I think we have a winner. Good insight, Betty.

  51. 51.

    debbie

    March 6, 2018 at 7:21 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I didn’t realize until just now that the father was a cop. What a horrible situation for everyone who knows the family.

  52. 52.

    debbie

    March 6, 2018 at 7:22 am

    @opiejeanne:

    I add my birthday wishes. Where better for a combined celebration than a Magic Kingdom!

  53. 53.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:22 am

    @Steeplejack (phone): I know, and seeing as Raven’s father was a Navy WW II vet I just had to point it out to him.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2018 at 7:23 am

    @Elizabelle

    Fun in the sun?

    Obligatory.

    :)

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    March 6, 2018 at 7:24 am

    @satby: Please keep me posted. It’s almost local news for you. I was struck by how much “drugs” was part of the original stories, and this was tragic. Student looks like a handsome young college student of the darker persuasion.

    Agreed re the gun availability. Quite a few lessons to be drawn from this story.

    I think I might see if there’s much in Central Michigan’s student newspaper.

  56. 56.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @opiejeanne: I could see San Antonio, San Gregornio, San Jacinto(barely) and Saddleback from the Baldwin Hills. I picked the right day to head out and take pics. Much better visibility than last year’s outing.

  57. 57.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:26 am

    @Baud: Indeed.
    We went to the “state fair” in Puyallup a couple of years ago, just a coincidence that it was Sr Citizens Day, and we felt like teenagers compared to the fossils

    WA doesn’t have a state fair, the state just allowed that fair to make the claim to try to boost attendance.

  58. 58.

    Kay

    March 6, 2018 at 7:27 am

    The Ohio Democratic Party will hold its fourth official debate for its governor candidates at Bowsher High School in Toledo on March 7, but this time with an almost entirely new cast.
    The only participant left standing from the first three debates, state Sen. Joe Schiavoni (D., Boardman), will be joined on stage for the first time by former federal consumer watchdog Richard Cordray, former Cleveland congressman Dennis Kucinich, and former Ohio Supreme Court Justice William O’Neill.

    I’m going to this debate. I’m a Cordray supporter. I once helped Bill O’Neill in one of his (losing) campaigns- he later won. However. He said he would drop out of this if Cordray got in so I’m wondering why he went back on his word.

  59. 59.

    JR

    March 6, 2018 at 7:27 am

    @Ohio Mom: Double breasted suits ended as men’s fashion for a good reason.

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:29 am

    @debbie: Thanks, although I’d rather just drive down to Anaheim for this party than fly across the continent to cohabit with the alligators, since the visit is too short for a meet up with la Cracker et al.

  61. 61.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 7:33 am

    @opiejeanne:

    and we felt like teenagers compared to the fossils

    It must have felt like Balloon Juice.

  62. 62.

    Elizabelle

    March 6, 2018 at 7:33 am

    @NotMax: from NotMax’s link:

    This letter was inspired by recent comments France’s Minister of Health and Solidarity Agnès Buzyn made on a France 2 radio program. In this interview, Buzyn told reporters she believed the French wine industry was misleading the public by listing their beverages as “soft alcohol.” She went on to argue that wine is just as poisonous to the liver as other alcoholic beverages.

    Addiction specialists who signed Le Figaro’s letter said the government was putting the public at risk by not taking a tougher stance on France’s wine industries. They pointed out that wine is one of the most powerful psychotropic drugs on the planet and is the second leading cause of preventable death in France. Academics also pointed out how overindulging in wine was linked to higher rates of domestic violence, suicide, and mental illnesses. …. France both produces and consumes most of the world’s wine. It’s estimated that about 50,000 French people die every year due directly to alcohol.

    I’d rather take my chances against red wine than bullets.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 7:34 am

    @Kay: Will that be streamed? I’d like to see that.

  64. 64.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:34 am

    Apple co-founder Steve Jobs once said: “There’s not a straight piece of glass on this building” and that this was “a shot at building the best office building in the world”.

    Yes, one that is hazardous to Apple employees health:

    Employees in Apple Park, Apple’s grand new spaceship-style headquarters in California, keep walking into glass doors and windows.

    Despite warnings from a building inspector that people would not be able to tell where the door ends and the wall begins, at least three Apple employees walked or ran into the ultra-transparent glass hard enough to require emergency medical treatment during the first month of occupation, according to recordings of 911 calls obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle.

    Apple Park is a gigantic, $5bn (£3.6bn) four-storey glass and metal circle building designed by Norman Foster, where the glass has been specially treated to achieve an exact level of transparency and whiteness. The doorways reportedly have perfectly flat thresholds because “if engineers had to adjust their gait when entering the building, they risked distraction from their work”, according to a construction manager talking to Reuters. It also uses the largest, heaviest single pieces of glass ever installed on a building that also happens to be curved.

    Let’s see: They want to encourage people to work while they are walking and make everything out of super transparent glass, such that those same distracted people can’t tell where a door begins and a wall ends. What could possibly go wrong?

  65. 65.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 7:38 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: They obviously need a glass proximity app.

  66. 66.

    TS

    March 6, 2018 at 7:38 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Very Similar, although Hitler had a better tailor.

  67. 67.

    satby

    March 6, 2018 at 7:38 am

    @Elizabelle: I think they always jump to drugs to try to explain erratic behavior (especially with teens), after all people speculated on that last night with the Nunberg freakout. It doesn’t help that many mentally ill attempt to self medicate with drugs either. And denial of mental illness because of the stigma is still very real.

  68. 68.

    Betty Cracker

    March 6, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @opiejeanne: Bring your woolies — high temps are supposed to plunge into the 60s starting tomorrow.

  69. 69.

    NorthLeft12

    March 6, 2018 at 7:40 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: I believe it is more accurate to say that Trump, despite what he says about Congress, supports the Republicans in Congress rather than the other way around.
    As predicted, Deadbeat Donald signs pretty much anything he is given by the Repubs and dutifully talks it up like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and tries to cop the “credit” for it as well.
    Outside of his protectionist streak, the ignorant Orange Idiot pretty much lines up with all the worst policies of the Repubs. If anything, his presence in the White House has made the Repubs even crueler and meaner than before.

  70. 70.

    MomSense

    March 6, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @opiejeanne:

    Happy birthday and have a great trip!

  71. 71.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:41 am

    @opiejeanne:

    WA doesn’t have a state fair,

    Tha tha tha that’s just un-American! Bunch of liberal pinko commie west coast elitists you are.

  72. 72.

    MomSense

    March 6, 2018 at 7:42 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    60s – what we call summer.

  73. 73.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:44 am

    @Baud: Haha! No, the BJ group that I’ve met are a lot like us or younger. I think Ruckus is slightly older than we are but he’s a teenager compared to the people inhabiting all the recliners at the Barcalounger display that day. They looked like they were prepared to spend the rest of the day there, disinclined to leave.

  74. 74.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:45 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: We have a State Fair.

  75. 75.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:47 am

    @MomSense:

    60s – what we call summer.

    Note to self, avoid Maine.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    March 6, 2018 at 7:49 am

    @Baud:

    I don’t know. I’ll try to find out. I’ve met Joe Schiavoni. He’s charming- engaging and interesting one on one- but much more a political operator than a governor. You know my feelings on Kucinich.

    Debating skill doesn’t necessarily mean anything- Sherrod Brown is a terrible debater- slightly bored, sort of mumbly and disinterested. Treats it like a chore.

  77. 77.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 7:50 am

    One more pic…this is from a slightly different vantage point and gets a better view of the pointy building.

  78. 78.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:50 am

    @Betty Cracker: I live in Seattle. That sounds warm to us. :-)

  79. 79.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:54 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Well, it is a very blue state.

    There’s the Green State Fair in Monroe, which is smaller and nicer than the one in Puyallup. There’s an indoor arena they use for horse shows during the fair and the best event is the wagon teams. Beautiful horses pulling brightly colored wagons… and that one guy with the six Shetland ponies that shows up every year and tries to get them to all turn the same direction at the same time. I don’t think they’ve ever turned the wagon over, at least not at the event, but Shetland ponies must be related to cats so you know how entertaining this part of the event is.

  80. 80.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Central Valley?

  81. 81.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:55 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: And it’s not as big as the LA County Fair, IIRC.

  82. 82.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 6, 2018 at 7:56 am

    @raven: What do you think is wrong with it? Haven’t watched it and probably won’t because it seems depressing. The story sounds interesting though. Saw the director on Tavis Smiley’s show a while back.

  83. 83.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 7:58 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sacramento.

  84. 84.

    ThresherK

    March 6, 2018 at 7:58 am

    That’s rilly, rillllly low-occupancy, and I say this as a someone who seeks out a lot of lower-seed womens’ hoops conference quarterfinals games. Y’know, the ones where two teams who are in the arena Baylor and Texas will fill up–in three days–play.

  85. 85.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 8:00 am

    @opiejeanne: True, probably not as big as the OC Fair either.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    March 6, 2018 at 8:03 am

    @Baud:

    I’m kind of worried about Cordray in this environment. He will just never be a red meat ranter. It’s like asking him to turn into a completely different person. I’m afraid Kucinich is gonna do his bullshit made-for-tv act (and to a lesser extent O’Neill will too) and Cordray will look boring and somber in comparison to those two hopping around yelling. After Trump I just have no faith in the electorate- none.

  87. 87.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 8:04 am

    @opiejeanne:

    but Shetland ponies must be related to cats so you know how entertaining this part of the event is.

    Heh. I love that stuff. Our’s is in Sedalia and I’ve never been tho I probably should go once. I like county fairs, they are so hokey and…. well, to say the least, white. They are a hoot with rodeos and livestock shows and rides and all the greasy food one could ever want and than some. And “country” music, or at least what passes for “country” these days.

  88. 88.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 8:05 am

    @debbie:

    You consult historical photographs and ask the barber to emulate the haircut of the man you idolize.

    I find that depressing. I did wonder if they sit around after their meetings in their clubhouse (Mom’s basement) and give each other that Hitler Special

  89. 89.

    Steeplejack

    March 6, 2018 at 8:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Techno-weenie hubris is a hell of a drug. There seems to be something about (successfully) doing large-scale software development that triggers the belief (in some people) that they can apply that expertise to everything in the world and it will all be so much better. It seems analogous to the way physicists sometimes come across as condescending assholes to other scientists.

    Steve Jobs: “a shot at building the best office building in the world.” Of course, because it’s not like architects and builders have been trying to do that since the Pyramids. (Not saying the Pyramids were office buildings! As Ben Carson told us, they were grain storage facilities.)

    Alas, if only in my 30-year software career I had worked in a building where the doorway was not a distraction from my work. What wonders would I have produced! And, oh, yeah, I’d be a bazillionaire now.

  90. 90.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2018 at 8:07 am

    @Quinerly:
    Morning to Poco and the tribe???

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 8:08 am

    @opiejeanne: Duh. I shoulda guessed that.

  92. 92.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2018 at 8:08 am

    @opiejeanne:
    Happy Birthday ???
    Have a great trip

  93. 93.

    raven

    March 6, 2018 at 8:09 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Oh yea I did . Plus I’m on the mailing list for the USS Strong and they altered me to this find as it happened.

  94. 94.

    WaterGirl

    March 6, 2018 at 8:09 am

    @Kay: I hope you will ask that question if they allow questions after the debate.

  95. 95.

    raven

    March 6, 2018 at 8:10 am

    @Patricia Kayden: It’s awful, no heart at all in the film.

  96. 96.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2018 at 8:11 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Looks beautiful ?

  97. 97.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 8:12 am

    @Steeplejack: Masters of the Universe my ass.

  98. 98.

    germy

    March 6, 2018 at 8:12 am

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-levi-sanders-mad-online_us_5a970774e4b0e6a52304509f

    Levi is a fascinating character. I wonder if he thinks he’ll be president someday?

  99. 99.

    Steeplejack

    March 6, 2018 at 8:12 am

    Well, I’m off to see the endodontist in a bit. At my dental checkup last week they found what appears to be a latent abscess way down at the bottom of one tooth’s root, so I’m supposed to get some sort of scan that is better than the basic X-ray. Shouldn’t be invasive or painful or take too long, but I foresee dental work in my future.

    And when I made the appointment they gave me some forms to fill out ahead of time and bring with me, which of course I can’t find now. So I need to arrive a little early to redo those. Grr.

  100. 100.

    WaterGirl

    March 6, 2018 at 8:12 am

    @Kay: I always figured Cordray would be a shoe-in for governor if he ever ran. Stupid electorate.

  101. 101.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 8:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think it was the Puyallup fair that has an exhibition hall full of absolutely beautiful rabbits and chickens, and no AC. On hot days it’s very unpleasant inside but the animals are so wonderful that I tough it out longer than I would normally.

  102. 102.

    cosima

    March 6, 2018 at 8:13 am

    I have a huge number of extremely entitled shitty racist family members in Lansing & Grand Rapids. They are the children of one immigrant straight off the boat (my Danish grandfather) and a mother one generation removed from that status, as her parents immigrated from Sweden. The number of sane family members there — i.e. not racist — is near zero. Completely baffling. The family regularly have family reunions there, and there is nothing that could get me to hang out with that lot. I had dreams of going to Michigan State, but fortunately came to my senses.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 8:14 am

    @Kay:

    The Dem electorate is usually pretty solid. I’ll be worried about the general electorate when the time comes for that.

  104. 104.

    Just one more canuck

    March 6, 2018 at 8:14 am

    @opiejeanne: you did the Puyallup?

  105. 105.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 8:19 am

    @rikyrah: Thank you.

    Alarm going off in 45 minutes. Somehow spending this time with the jackals here seems better than the sleep I missed.

  106. 106.

    Steeplejack

    March 6, 2018 at 8:32 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Well, I found my forms. They were in the last place I looked. Funny how that works out.

  107. 107.

    Betty Cracker

    March 6, 2018 at 8:37 am

    @Kay: Maybe sober and sane will resonate in the Trumpdashian era. I’ll never again have as much faith in the electorate as I had for most of 2016 — even factoring in voter suppression and Russian shenanigans, tens of millions of our fellow citizens enthusiastically cast a ballot for a buffoonish demagogue. But even apathetic people who don’t pay attention to politics seem to sense that this clown show is abnormal, and maybe they’ll conclude they’re tired of the circus and decide that non-clowns are the way to go. We’ll see, I guess.

  108. 108.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 8:39 am

    This is worth paying attention to: Monsanto says its pesticides are safe. Now, a court wants to see the proof

    This week’s events will mark the first time that the body of research, some that has been gathering dust in stuffy scientific journals or confidential corporate files, will be analyzed under oath for all to see.
    ….
    Monsanto has tried to persuade US judge Vince Chhabria to throw out the litigation, and sought to keep secret the many internal documents it has been forced to turn over in discovery. But Chhabria has ordered that the hearing be video-recorded and shared publicly over the internet. And he has granted permission for plaintiffs to explore in open court such things as the ghostwriting of science as well as a controversial 1983 study that EPA scientists at the time said showed evidence of glyphosate’s cancer-causing potential.

    The court has dubbed the 5-9 March events as “science week” because the only evidence to be presented will come from experts in cancer science, including epidemiologists, toxicologists and others called to analyze relevant research. There will be no crying cancer victims to tug on heart strings; just opposing sides presenting science to a judge who will decide if the lawsuits can move forward.

    To bolster its defense, the company and chemical industry allies have been working to discredit cancer scientists and others who have been warning of danger. That effort was highlighted when members of the House committee on science, space and technology held a hearing in Washington on 6 February to air Monsanto’s complaints about the International Agency for Research on Cancer’s (IARC) classification of glyphosate as a probable carcinogen, and to threaten to strip funding from the scientific body.

    The committee effort – effectively turning a war on cancer into a war on cancer science – was applauded by the chemical industry. Monsanto, along with lobbyist CropLife America and other agricultural organizations, has also sued California to stop environmental regulators from requiring cancer warnings on glyphosate products, and on 26 February they won an injunction blocking such a warning.

    The debate over glyphosate is but the latest example of how industry efforts often focus not on scrutinizing scientific evidence of harm, but on discrediting the offending science.

    Lots of links in the article for those who want to explore this more deeply.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    March 6, 2018 at 8:40 am

    @WaterGirl:

    There are no shoe-ins in Ohio. Democrats always have to run perfect campaigns and they need a number of factors in their favor to win because the Democratic electorate is REALLY diverse- everything from white gun-loving labor union leaders to suburban people who whine about taxes to urban AA electeds who are real power brokers in their respective cities. You have to court all groups because each thinks they are the “real” Democrats and each discounts the political value of the others.

    DeWine is the Republican but he’s riding on name recognition – he’s been around forever- so we won’t know if Cordray is doing okay until later, after the general starts.

  110. 110.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    March 6, 2018 at 8:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Our’s is in Sedalia and I’ve never been tho I probably should go once

    We’ve been once, around 3-4 years ago. The “draw” was the fact that one of headliner acts (the Happy Together tour) had a backing band in which we knew everybody. It was an excuse to see them. But we ended up enjoying all the stock and poultry stuff.

    Sedalia is well, Sedalia. There’s no reason whatsoever to go there other than to take in the State Fair once.

    We stopped going to our county fair a dozen years ago. The other thing that’s unique to here are all the Catholic parish picnics. Stopped going to those about a dozen years as well. Worth doing a couple of times and we always tell B&B guests during “parish picnic season” that they should go to one while staying with us.

  111. 111.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 6, 2018 at 8:49 am

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    There’s no reason whatsoever to go there other than to take in the State Fair once.

    That and the Katy trail. I’ve never been to a parish picnic, doubt I ever will. I get nervous when I find myself surrounded by Catholics.

  112. 112.

    low-tech cyclist

    March 6, 2018 at 8:51 am

    Spencer claims that 150 advance tickets were given out, but the fearsome protestors discouraged his valiant supporters from showing up. Sad!

    How can that be? I thought his supporters were supposed to be the Master Race – they couldn’t have possibly been scared away by lesser beings!

  113. 113.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 8:58 am

    @low-tech cyclist: They are a pretty unappealing group, as Master Races go.

  114. 114.

    raven

    March 6, 2018 at 9:08 am

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Flo and Eddie????

  115. 115.

    Kay

    March 6, 2018 at 9:11 am

    @WaterGirl:

    LIke all places, Ohio has regional rivalries. Toledo feels they are dissed in favor of the Three C’s, because they ignore the fact they are much smaller than the Three C’s, which is the real reason they are less powerful.

    They hate Columbus because the feeling is all state funding goes to Columbus and stays there. True, to a certain extent. So, I imagine Kucinich will portray Cordray as a Columbus person (true- he is) and act like a gritty, down to earth Cleveland person. Except Toledo doesn’t really like Cleveland any more than they like Columbus because part of Toledo’s essential nature is to be downtrodden and under-appreciated :)

  116. 116.

    Tenar Arha

    March 6, 2018 at 9:18 am

    @different-church-lady: That particular online insult really made me scratch my head. The assumption by WaPo & the propaganda network that the lower numbers had anything to do with them at all is baffling. Not one mention that MeToo and OscarsSoWhite might be what’s driving those numbers down. Gee, it even makes me think that the argument that liberals live in a bubble might be a bit projectiony. /sarcasm

  117. 117.

    tobie

    March 6, 2018 at 9:19 am

    @germy: I’m spending a few days with the extended family and have to say Levi Sanders reminds me of my 27-year-old nephew. He’s a permanent scold, convinced he’s the only one who understands the plight of the poor, and blames all the ills of America on the white liberal establishment. Listening to him, you would think here’s no Republican party whatsoever. The whole thing is frightening to see. I hope this is a really small sliver of the electorate.

  118. 118.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 9:27 am

    @tobie: Democrats don’t get the good stuff done because they either don’t want it at all or they don’t want it enough.

  119. 119.

    stinger

    March 6, 2018 at 9:30 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I love your pics.

  120. 120.

    Matt McIrvin

    March 6, 2018 at 9:30 am

    Friend: “Look at it this way. At least you can’t physically get the Nazi haircut. You have that going for you.”
    Me: “No, but I could get the Nazi haircut of 30 years ago, easy.”

  121. 121.

    balconesfault

    March 6, 2018 at 9:31 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Ha. Everyone is acting Ryan pushing back on tarriffs is some amazing thing.

    I’m sure it took all of one phone call from the Kochs – who are rabid anti-protectionists – for him to leap into action.

    How can the media not draw that connection?

  122. 122.

    H.E.Wolf

    March 6, 2018 at 9:32 am

    @TS:

    Well played!

  123. 123.

    germy

    March 6, 2018 at 9:36 am

    @tobie:

    blames all the ills of America on the white liberal establishment.

    Levi’s preoccupations remind me of Greenwald’s.

    I’m assuming he voraciously reads everything GG writes.

  124. 124.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 9:41 am

    @stinger: Thanks, here’s an infrared pic that I just finished processing.

  125. 125.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    March 6, 2018 at 9:42 am

    @cosima: I went to MSU for grad school but grew up in Grand Rapids, thankfully with parents who passed their enlightened views of race relations on to their children. Unfortunately, that was a 50/50 proposition on the West side of the city, which was where most of the working class whites of Polish and Dutch descent lived. Actually the Dutch are all over but back then at least the Polish were on the West side. I have lots of former high school classmates with pretty bigoted views, but don’t call them racist because that’s offensive. Seriously, I hate that they’re racist but what’s almost more annoying is that they are super duper offended by being called racist, or at least pretend to be so offended.

  126. 126.

    Steve in the ATL

    March 6, 2018 at 9:42 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I saw it from the air last night flying to SFO from LAX. Pretty cool looking, but I was thousands of feet up in the air and couldn’t see how clear the glass was.

  127. 127.

    Anotherlurker

    March 6, 2018 at 9:42 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: The finding of the Lexington is very cool! I am an old Northeast Wreck diver who has a ball researching the sites that I have dove on.
    Sadly (or happily) the Lexington is well beyond SCUBA range.

  128. 128.

    tobie

    March 6, 2018 at 9:43 am

    @germy: I should ask him if he reads The Intercept. You’re right that Levi sounds a lot like GG. The sad thing with my nephew is that his politics are clearly a rebellion against his “white liberal” parents. I suppose I should be happy he didn’t go in the direction of Richard Spencer but it’s sometimes hard to tell the difference between left-wing and right-wing populist warriors. Last night he was telling my increasingly wide-eyed and disbelieving mother that Jews own the banks and hence control politics. Ugly stuff.

  129. 129.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 9:47 am

    @Steve in the ATL: It’s really clear, that’s why you couldn’t see it.

  130. 130.

    Yutsano

    March 6, 2018 at 9:49 am

    @opiejeanne: The master race needs a gene infusion.

    In happier news: happy day of birthing! You and your hubby are always a delight to see and I’m glad to have met you both. Will you be around between March 28-April 1? I’ll be around town then.

  131. 131.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 9:50 am

    @tobie: At 27, he’s probably too old to be slapped, or to have his iphone taken away.

  132. 132.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 9:51 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I hope the bathrooms there use real walls.

  133. 133.

    stinger

    March 6, 2018 at 9:52 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Cool! Actually, that’s what it looks like outside my window right now — we had freezing rain that coated all the bare branches, then snow that stuck to the ice. I think I’d prefer that it was the effect of digital or chemical manipulation, rather than the result of 33 degrees and precipitation!

  134. 134.

    stinger

    March 6, 2018 at 9:53 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: LOL

  135. 135.

    tobie

    March 6, 2018 at 9:56 am

    @Baud: I think the best thing I can do is recommend some news sites for him to read. He’s something of an autodidact so this might work…or it might convince him that I’m a member of the neoliberal establishment who should be ignored at all costs. Social media has really made fringe positions seem totally legitimate.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 10:01 am

    @tobie:

    it might convince him that I’m a member of the neoliberal establishment

    You’re not? Then what are you doing here?

  137. 137.

    Leto

    March 6, 2018 at 10:04 am

    @Baud: You’re never too old to be slapped for saying dumbshit. It’s just socially unacceptable. Of course if you don’t care about social conventions…

  138. 138.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 10:05 am

    @stinger: That’s not really digital manipulation, it’s capturing infrared light as opposed to visible light. The manipulation comes in when I returned the visible color back in by putting in a visible light color layer in Photoshop. Of course infrared images right out of the camera look pretty red so there is the color swap since red skies look kind of freaky.

  139. 139.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 10:06 am

    @Baud: It’s NorCal, so who knows.

  140. 140.

    Baud

    March 6, 2018 at 10:14 am

    @Leto: Taking the iphone away is probably more effective, however.

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Good point.

  141. 141.

    Doug R

    March 6, 2018 at 10:15 am

    @opiejeanne:

    *Is Intercontinental fancier than International?

    Well, with bush in the name maybe they thought they need to be more continental.
    You’re flying United, aren’t you?

  142. 142.

    cain

    March 6, 2018 at 10:15 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    @Amir Khalid: LAX is to be avoided at all costs; unless we were flying internationally, we’d always use Burbank.

    Ugh, too late. I’m flying in tomorrow. I’m giving the opening talk at a conference in Pasadena. I have never liked LA either. On the other hand, I’m going to be visiting the Pixar studios, meeting some folks there on some Linux business.

  143. 143.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    March 6, 2018 at 10:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: One year the Tennessee State Fair had the Pogues play. I can only conclude they had never heard any of their music, and just selected them on the theory that people love traditional Irish music.

  144. 144.

    Ruckus

    March 6, 2018 at 10:19 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    Burbank is the only airport I’ve flown into or out of where the pilot had to take evasive action to avoid hitting another airplane. And the approach is almost as bad as some of the island airports in the world. Not my favorite airport.

  145. 145.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    March 6, 2018 at 10:22 am

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: There’s a St. Lawrence’s Catholic Church here on the northern, rural outskirts of Nashville (complete with statue of St. Lawrence holding his gridiron) that has a barbecue every year.

  146. 146.

    No Drought No More

    March 6, 2018 at 10:28 am

    Does anyone know what year QB Joe Theisman changed his last name to Manchin? It was obviously after he retired, but before he was elected senator from west Virginia.

  147. 147.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 6, 2018 at 10:31 am

    @cain:

    meeting some folks there on some Linux business

    Sounds painful.

    @Ruckus: Never had any problems with Burbank; of course there was the plane that didn’t stop at the end of the runway and almost hit a gas pump at the gas station* across the street.

    *Gas station is no longer at that location for some reason.

  148. 148.

    Leto

    March 6, 2018 at 10:37 am

    @Baud: I guess there’s only one way to solve this!

    *proceeds to slap phone and take away Levi*

  149. 149.

    Doug R

    March 6, 2018 at 10:38 am

    @cain:

    Ugh, too late. I’m flying in tomorrow. I’m giving the opening talk at a conference in Pasadena. I have never liked LA either. On the other hand, I’m going to be visiting the Pixar studios, meeting some folks there on some Linux business.

    Pixar has studios around LA? I guess they took over some Disney Burbank space.
    Or are you heading to Emeryville as well?

  150. 150.

    cosima

    March 6, 2018 at 10:41 am

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: You may know my family, they’ve been in Grand Rapids & Lansing now for a long time. My grandparents made a ton of money and every single one of their children who stayed in MI benefitted directly from that, living off them somehow, with that extending to their offspring. So, they’ve managed to survive through the efforts of an immigrant, half of them not bothering to get a proper job, and somehow are above the new immigrants? And God forbid someone is anything other than bright white. They’re just such garbage people. I haven’t been back to MI in 30+ years. Racists raising racists.

  151. 151.

    Mnemosyne

    March 6, 2018 at 10:44 am

    @cain:

    If you’re flying through LAX to get to both Pasadena and Emeryville from Denver, you have a very bad travel planner. Sorry.

    Also, make sure you have room on your phone to take pictures at Pixar. They have cool outdoor spots to do it.

  152. 152.

    Shell

    March 6, 2018 at 10:48 am

    Wiki says Spencer heads a ‘white supremacist think tank’. Contradiction in terms, anyone?

    Nice suit, though.

  153. 153.

    Origuy

    March 6, 2018 at 11:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yeah, no. That’s some British newspaper inaccuracy there.

    It is the Grauniad, after all.

  154. 154.

    Miss Bianca

    March 6, 2018 at 11:31 am

    @germy: He seems dull as dishwater to me, tho’ the jury is still out on whether that means he’s as dirty, too.

    Couldn’t even read thru’ his rants. With their idiosyncratic spelling, punctuation, and thought-drift they kind of reminded me of Trump, tho’ more prolix. Worst of all possible worlds!

  155. 155.

    Miss Bianca

    March 6, 2018 at 11:37 am

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): Oh, now *that* I would have paid, and travelled, to see. The Pogues at a southern-state fair? That’s as good as the Blues Brothers at the road house!

  156. 156.

    rikyrah

    March 6, 2018 at 12:14 pm

    @balconesfault:
    They don’t want to draw the connection

  157. 157.

    SFBayAreaGal

    March 6, 2018 at 12:18 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: My dad was part of the US Army Air Force during WWII

  158. 158.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    March 6, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    @cosima: I don’t know any of the Grand Rapids oligarchs if we’re talking that much money (Meijer, Devos, Van Andel, Wege, Bissell) or anyone there who has so much family money they no longer have to work, so I probably don’t know your family. Nobody with that kind of money lived on the West side as far as I know. I wouldn’t let your family completely sour you on the area as it is nice and not everyone in West Michigan is racist by any means.

  159. 159.

    opiejeanne

    March 6, 2018 at 12:48 pm

    @Yutsano: :-) Yes. We have to be back before the 22nd for our taxes.

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