Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Don’t expect peaches from an apple tree.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Let’s finish the job.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

I was promised a recession.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Bourdain and Suicide

Bourdain and Suicide

by | 192 Comments

This post is in: 

The loss of Anthony Bourdain is real, and it’s tough. This piece in Rolling Stone is a great sendoff to a great guy:

The world was shocked by the terrible news of Anthony Bourdain’s death today, because he seemed invincible. As his man Iggy Pop would say, he had a lust for life. Bourdain wasn’t just another celebrity chef – he was an adventurer, a punk rocker who used to scam his way into CBGB shows by cooking meals for the bands. On his revolutionary travel shows No Reservations and Parts Unknown, he brought that same streetwise flair to his quest to cross the globe in search of weird food and drink and shady companions. He was the Johnny Thunders of food, a hard-ass New York hedonist chatterbox who did not mind his table manners. As he proudly told Mens Journal’s Sean Woods in 2014, “I have a tattoo on my arm that says, in ancient Greek, ‘I am certain of nothing.’ I think that’s a good operating principle.”

***

His 2000 memoir Kitchen Confidential made him a star, yet he was even more of a hit on TV, crackling with energy and charisma. Even those of us who couldn’t handle a whisk could savor how Bourdain roamed the world, going to places the rest of us could barely pronounce, seeking out new culinary kicks with unsentimental gusto. Like the New York Dolls did for music in the sluggish Seventies, he revved up the tempo of food TV, adding street swagger and caustic humor. He was tough on his friends and merciless to his enemies (with plenty of both). He was easily the meanest Top Chef guest judge ever, yet also the funniest – even Padma could look a little shocked at how surly he was.

There’s reams of research about parasocial relationships, but for me, at least, the thing about Bourdain that really drew me to him was that he could be a total asshole and say things that cut deep, but he wasn’t a dick about it. He wasn’t trying to hurt you, he was just telling you the truth as he saw it right that fucking instant. Two weeks later, he might have a completely different take, but that didn’t make what he said both times any less honest. He wasn’t larger than life, like people always say, he just felt like a real dude in a world of fake bullshit. He felt, he experienced, and he sensed. It’s no surprise that his passions were food, music, drugs and booze, and people, although I bet there was a lot of introversion we never saw on screen.

And it’s sad. I don’t understand suicide or the urge to kill one’s self. Everyone is posting the national suicide hotline information, and that’s good, but I often wonder about guys like Bourdain, or Robin Williams, or others who had it all (from an outsider’s perspective), and surely knew how to get help, but it just didn’t work and in the end they got tired of running away from the demons.

I’ve run across a few heroin addicts who have told me that using smack is the greatest feeling on earth and after you’ve experienced the high, the rest of your life will be spent trying to get to that feeling again and falling short. I don’t know if that’s true, because I was fortunate enough that I just stuck to acid, shrooms, coke, and weed “back in the day.” Maybe as good as his life was, he just got tired, and it just became too much. I don’t know what to say.

I just wish he hadn’t, and maybe even though he was tired, and worn down, and dealing with shit I can’t understand or imagine, that he had maybe called a hotline and just put it off for another day. Because I’d like to have him around still.

And I feel the same way about you. So please, give us and life another chance if you ever get to that dark place. You know where to find me and the others here, and these guys will always be there for you, too.

1-800-273-8255

Reader Interactions

192Comments

  1. 1.

    Mike Furlan

    I think Robin Williams and Anthony Bourdain had two entirely different reasons for suicide. Robin I’ve read had a form of dementia (Lewy Body). Anthony had other issues:

    “I was an unhappy soul, with a huge heroin and then crack problem. I hurt, disappointed and offended many, many, many people and I regret a lot. It’s a shame I have to live with.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jan/15/anthony-bourdain-life-on-a-plate-happy-as-a-dishwasher

  2. 2.

    debbie

    I think “having it all” needs to be redefined. It’s not about having stuff, it’s more about having someone you know you can count on at that very moment you are considering ending your life.

  5. 5.

    greengoblin

    My hubby’s nephew took his own life earlier this week. He was 26. Not sure what his demons were but man, like Cole says, I wish he had waited one more day and reached out to someone. Maybe he was just tired, even though so young.

    So sad, no matter who it is.

  6. 6.

    Alain the site fixer

    Thanks, John. It’s been a bad day and this helps bring some closure to it.

  8. 8.

    Starfish

    The remembrances of Bourdain have been so sweet. Here is a thread by author Laura Lippman, wife of David Simon, on their interactions with Bourdain.

    Here is a thread by Yashar Ali about how Bourdain helped him with his own depression.

    There were numerous remembrances by people in countries that are usually vilified by American politicians.

  9. 9.

    Christopher

    Nicely said. This Tweet by @JamesGleick summed up my same thoughts that Anthony Bourdain always told his truth honestly and directly. RIP “”I was on a panel with Anthony Bourdain in Sydney ten years after 9/11 when a questioner asked us whether the attacks weren’t our (Americans’) own fault. While I mulled my answer, he replied: “Fuck you, and fuck the horse you rode in on.””

  11. 11.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    Bourdain that really drew me to him was that he could be a total asshole and say things that cut deep, but he wasn’t a dick about it. He wasn’t trying to hurt you, he was just telling you the truth as he saw it right that fucking instant. Two weeks later, he might have a completely different take, but that didn’t make what he said both times any less honest.

    That’s kind of the way Gordon Ramsay’s American TV persona comes across, more so on Kitchen Nightmares, when it was on the air.

    Fun fact, I believe Bourdain first introduced Ramsay to American audiences in 2000 or so on one of his shows. Here’s the video:
    Anthony Bourdain (prior to No Reservations) visits chef Ramsay’s restaurant in UK

  13. 13.

    HumboldtBlue

    I’ve been a lot closer than I care to think about at times.

    My oldest sister committed suicide 17 years ago. One of my oldest brothers drank himself to death (in what I consider a long drawn-out suicide). My sister texted me yesterday, a colleague’s 16-year-old son committed suicide.

    Bourdain’s episode in which he and his brother return to their birthplace in France was my favorite episode in a series I adored.

    Depression is a motherfucking motherfucker.

  15. 15.

    Ruckus

    JC, this is a man that a lot of people around the world knew, because he was open and honest with himself. He didn’t like you or something you said or did, he told you. And that didn’t normally form a wall for him, for ever cutting you out. He seemed to take life as it hit him, day by day. He seemed to genuinely like people, didn’t care if they spoke the same language, they all have to eat. And what better thing to enjoy than something that we all have to do, eat. So do it well, learn all you can, try different foods. I was on liberty in Athens once and we saw a shop with meat on a stick. It was the equivalent to a quarter, it was gray but smelled good. No one else would try it, it might be cat or dog or poisoned. It was fucking delicious. Morons.
    I have no idea why he did what he did and neither does anyone else, unless he told them. And it doesn’t sound like he did. That’s one thing about success in that area, there are no second chances.
    People around the world liked him because he was real. He wasn’t a fake in any way. People miss him for the same reasons.

  16. 16.

    raven

    Since we’re still talking about it I’m posting this again. Styron’s work is incredible from the perspective of someone who saw a highly creative spouse go down that road.

    Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness is a memoir by American writer William Styron about his descent into depression and the triumph of recovery. It is among the last books published by Styron and is widely considered one of his best and most influential works. Darkness Visible also helped raise awareness for depression, which was relatively unknown at the time.

    First published in December 1989 in Vanity Fair, the book grew out of a lecture that Styron originally delivered at a symposium on affective disorders at the Department of Psychiatry of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.[1]

    Through the employment of anecdotes, speculation, and reportage, Styron reflects on the causes and effects of depression, drawing links between his own illness and that of other writers and public figures.

  21. 21.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    @greengoblin:
    So sorry this is happening to you and your family. I hope your husband’s nephew is at peace

  22. 22.

    Ruckus

    @greengoblin:
    Sorry for the loss of your nephew.
    You often have no clue unless the person wants you to know. We all have our demons, as you said, rarely do we talk about them because we don’t want to bother or burden others.
    I wrote in the AB post below about the 27 yr old that I worked with who killed himself last year. He was fun, funny, active, liked and respected, talented and a fast learner. No one at work had a clue but his mom said that he had been depressed for years.

  23. 23.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Brachiator:

    One of my favourite singers. I own all her albums/CDs, I think. Great, great talent; troubled, tormented soul.

  25. 25.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @raven:

    One of the things we talked about was Art’s recurring bouts with depression. It was the thing that he shared with two of his closest friends: William Styron, the novelist, and Mike Wallace.

    The three of them would discreetly appear together at support groups, calling themselves “The Blues Brothers,” Buchwald told me.

    I could understand Buchwald and Styron as suffering from depression: a humorist (a common affliction among them) and a novelist who wrote about the illness in “Darkness Visible.”

    But Wallace was a surprise. Because he was familiar to us all as the aggressive journalist who asked the fearless questions of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Malcolm X, his struggles with depression seemed hard to fathom.

    But it was the case. In 1996, Wallace went public with his illness, and asked the Senate’s Special Committee on Aging for more federal funds for depression research.

    He told the committee that he had felt “lower, lower, lower than a snake’s belly,” and had tried to commit suicide. (The depression apparently first appeared after being sued for libel by Gen. William C. Westmoreland, who sought $120 million for a 1982 “CBS Reports” documentary, “The Uncounted Enemy: A Vietnam Deception.”)

    I don’t know if Wallace succeeded in winning funds for research. But he overcame his depression and went on to continue one of the most storied careers in American journalism.

  26. 26.

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ

    I woke up tired and depressed today, which I do most days of my life but I always muscle through. See I’ve dealt with depression my entire life so it’s like my skin–it never leaves me and some days I don’t notice it too much. Other days it weighs ten thousand pounds. But today, I felt it right away. Then as I was driving to work I heard that Trumpov said he wants Russia back in the G7 and I almost veered off the road in a rage. I thought to myself, ‘Just frigging give him the Sudetenland with a little bow on it while you’re at it!!!’ Then I heard that Bourdain was gone and so I felt really, really sad. Like John, I always felt that he was a very authentic person in a very inauthentic world. So I’ve spent the entire day in a fog. I’ve gotten nothing done at work and all I want to do is go home and be with my daughter and then lose myself in my next bookbinding project.

    I’ve been very close to suicide in my life a couple of times. And even though today is bad, this is not one of those times. Still it’s still a crappy day. Best advice I can give–if someone is down and they say they are a burden tell them they aren’t. Because the minute they start thinking that their loved ones will be better off without them, they are on a very bad path.

    Remember, Giorraíonn beirt bóthar!* I’m glad to be traveling with you my fellow jackals.

    *Gaelic for ‘two people shorten the road’

  27. 27.

    West of the Rockies

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Weird place to put this maybe, but I always find your comments engaging and worthwhile. Has there been a BJ meet-up in your neck of the woods? I get up and over to the Eureka/Arcata area once or twice a year from the northern Sacramento valley.

  28. 28.

    Steve in the ATL

    JFC. Happy Friday, everyone! I suppose none of us will be ok until the Russian/republican monster is slain.

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    Posting again: The New Yorker magazine, 1999, Bourdain’s article

    April 19, 1999 Issue
    Don’€™t Eat Before Reading This
    A New York chef spills some trade secrets. By Anthony Bourdain

    which he expanded into Kitchen Confidential. The guy could write, and hold your attention.

    Los Angeles Times: his Lasagna Bolognese recipe. It’s got 4 kinds of meat (hello, chicken livers) and a glass of white wine in it. And bechamel. Cooking for comfort? Anthony Bourdain’s rich lasagna Bolognese is one of our favorites

    Oh, what the heck. The recipe: and be hungry — it serves 12-16; best made the day before and reheated: seems like we need recipe text in a blogpost about Anthony Bourdain

    Lasagna Bolognese

    Total time: About 4 hours, plus cooling time | Serves 12 to 16
    Note: Adapted from a recipe in “Appetites: A Cookbook” by Anthony Bourdain.

    BECHAMEL SAUCE

    6 tablespoons butter
    6 tablespoons flour
    1 quart milk
    Salt and pepper
    Pinch freshly ground nutmeg, optional

    1. In a medium, heavy-bottom saucepan, heat the butter over medium heat until it foams and subsides. Whisk in the flour and stir it well using a wooden spoon, incorporating it into the butter until a dry paste forms (a roux). Reduce the heat and continue to cook and stir, taking care not to let the mixture brown.

    2. Meanwhile, in a large saucepan, bring the milk to a simmer, then gradually whisk it into the pan with the roux, continuing to whisk until the mixture is smooth. Season with 1/2 teaspoon salt and a pinch of pepper, or to taste, along with the nutmeg, if using. Continue to cook over medium-low heat, stirring regularly, until the sauce is thick enough to coat the back of a wooden spoon, about 10 minutes.
    This makes about 4 cups bechamel.

    LASAGNA BOLOGNESE

    3 tablespoons olive oil, divided
    1 large white or yellow onion, finely chopped
    2 large or 3 medium carrots, finely chopped
    3 ribs celery, finely chopped
    4 garlic cloves, finely chopped
    ½ teaspoon fresh thyme leaves
    Salt and freshly ground black pepper
    ½ pound chicken livers, trimmed of connective tissue and fat and finely chopped
    ¾ pound ground beef chuck
    ¾ pound ground veal
    ¾ pound ground pork
    ¾ cup tomato paste (about 6 ounces)
    1 cup Vermentino, Trebbiano or other Tuscan white wine
    1 ½ cups milk
    2 bay leaves
    About 1 pound dry, flat lasagne noodles
    4 cups bechamel sauce
    ¾ cup finely grated Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese
    6 ounces fresh mozzarella cheese, thinly sliced

    1. To make the Bolognese sauce, in a medium, heavy-bottom pot, heat 2 tablespoons oil over medium-high heat. Add the onion, carrots, celery, garlic and thyme and season with ½ teaspoon salt and several grinds of pepper, or to taste. Cook, stirring regularly using a wooden spoon, until the vegetables are tender and have released their juices, 7 to 9 minutes. Stir in the livers and cook over high heat for 2 minutes, then add the beef, veal and pork, stirring and breaking up over high heat. Season with 1 teaspoon salt and several grinds pepper, or to taste. Continue to cook over high heat until the meat is brown, stirring regularly and scraping the bottom of the pan as necessary to keep the meat and vegetables from scorching.

    2. Once the meat is browned, stir in the tomato paste over medium heat. Cook for about 20 minutes, stirring regularly, to marry the flavors. Add the wine, bring to a boil and cook until the wine is reduced by half, then add the milk and bay leaves and bring to a boil. Reduce the heat to a simmer and cook for 1½ to 2 hours, stirring occasionally. You may need to add a bit of water (or chicken or veal stock, if you have it) to thin the sauce if it thickens too much.

    3. Taste the sauce and season with 1 teaspoon salt and several grinds of pepper, or as needed. Remove from heat and stir to release the steam and allow it to cool slightly. Skim the fat off the top with a ladle and discard.

    4. Heat the oven to 350 degrees.

    5. Coat the inside of a 13-inch by 9-inch (or similar size) baking dish with the remaining tablespoon oil. Cover the bottom of the dish with a layer of bechamel. Sprinkle over some grated cheese, then top with a layer of noodles. Top the noodles with a layer of Bolognese sauce, and repeat with the bechamel, grated cheese, noodles, and Bolognese until the pan is filled to the top. The top layer should be Bolognese, dotted with bechamel, with thin slices of mozzarella laid across the top.

    6. Place the baking dish on a foil-lined sheet pan and bake in the oven until the lasagna is browned on top and beginning to bubble, about 50 minutes. Remove and set aside to cool. If you must serve it the day you’ve made it, set it aside to rest for 15 minutes before slicing. For best results, allow the lasagna to cool completely and refrigerate overnight. The next day, reheat at 350 degrees, covered loosely with foil, until bubbling. Remove from heat and rest 20 minutes before serving.

    Also Los Angeles Times: roundup of moving and sincere tweets by celebrities and those who knew him.
    Anthony Bourdain’s death stuns girlfriend Asia Argento and celebrity admirers

  30. 30.

    geg6

    One of my students killed himself yesterday. He was a vet who served in Afghanistan and Iraq. The nicest, humblest guy you’d ever meet. A top student. I wish I’d known he was having trouble. And then I woke up to this. One of my heroes and a guy I’ve crushed on ever since he burst onto the scene in the 00s. It’s feeling a bit too much in the midst of the shit show we’re all living in now.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    Do you think that Kate Spade’s suicide by hanging exerted any influence on Bourdain?

    He died in Kayserberg, not Strasbourg; it’s maybe an hour away by car. Looks like a lovely little historic town. Nearest bigger city is Colmar.

  38. 38.

    Elizabelle

    @geg6: Tragic. I wonder why we are seeing a rash, or at least hearing of the toll, now.

    My condolences. Am sure that’s shocking.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    @debbie: I saw your comment about driving in the rain yelling at the orange guy. Trump appears to have mellowed in front of his equals at the meeting in Quebec. I guess the tough guy image is only for the American media.

    Coco is available for streaming on Netflix, and that’s how I plan on spending the rest of evening.

  42. 42.

    Elizabelle

    @JPL: Coco is as good a movie as any for making sense of death. A good choice for the evening. I thought it was charming, and had a great plot twist.

  46. 46.

    TenguPhule


    Chinese government hackers reportedly stole trove of sensitive US naval data

    Investigators told the newspaper that breaches were executed in January and February by a division of the Chinese ministry of state security, operating out of the Chinese province of Guangdong.

    The contractor, which was not named in the report, works for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, based in Newport, Rhode Island. It conducts research and development for submarines and underwater weapons systems.

    According to the Post, hackers swiped 614 gigabytes of data that included information relating to sensors, submarine cryptographic systems and a little-known project called Sea Dragon.

    The Pentagon has not said much about Sea Dragon, launched in 2012, except that it is aimed at adapting existing military technologies to new uses.

    At the Navy’s request, the Post withheld information about the compromised new missile system, but said it was for a supersonic anti-ship missile that could be launched from submarines.

    Barron was asleep at the switch!

  47. 47.

    No One You Know

    @raven: I found Styron’s book helpful. There’s also a passage in Infinite Jest that perfectly describes the horror that is a major depressive episode. If only David Foster Wallace didn’t know it quite so well, perhaps he, too, would still be writing today.

  53. 53.

    Mnemosyne

    Eighteen years ago, G missed a call. The call was from his best friend, who killed himself that same night.

    G will wonder for the rest of his life what would have happened if he had not missed that call. He will blame himself for the rest of his life for not being at home the night his friend killed himself.

  55. 55.

    MazeDancer

    @Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:

    Bookbinding is gorgeous, ancient, and deep work that people continually take to new levels of creativity. So it mirrors some of the best of life.

    “Two people shorten the road” is a beautiful phrase. And, indeed, BJ can bring much light. My sweet cat Abigail was dying of lymphoma while Cole was getting Lily’s diagnosis. (Ccntinually knocking wood for Lily’s health). Others here on BJ were losing their animals, too, at that time. Or recounted the piercing loss in the past.

    Every post felt like it was talking to me. It helped immensely. Connecting in the reality we are all human always helps.

    While I was being a whiz kid in ad biz, hiding the relentless pain under success, the worry “who will take care of the cats?” kept me from choosing the seeming relief of just ending. On Twitter, today, many said the same about their pets.

    Everyone’s pain is different. The long, hard work to understand that Life is not a binary choice between Perfection and Failure is hard. The easier Perfection comes to you, and the more brutal the punishment growing up when you “failed”, the more empty real life feels. And the harder it is to understand perfection doesn’t reward, it kills.. But the work can be done. With time. Big effort. And help of other humans. And, of course, pets.

    Hope Spade and Bourdain are at peace.

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    @Steve in the ATL:

    is he going to pull a Lee Atwater and issue a deathbed apology for all the horrible things he’s done to this country?

    I’m gonna go with a No on that one.

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @geg6:

    Aw geg just fuck fuck fuck. So awful. You and your colleagues have been through way too much over the past few months and years.

    Shit, I am so sorry.

  59. 59.

    Mudbrush

    @HumboldtBlue: I have the same story, my sister committed suicide 10 years ago and my brother drank himself to death a few years later. I, too, have dealt with depression my entire life, but since my sibs left me, my attitude is, every day is gravy.

  60. 60.

    TenguPhule

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a letter to Congress on Thursday that Trump, who campaigned on repealing the law and nearly did so his first year in office, approved the legal strategy.

    Donald Verrilli Jr., President Barack Obama’s top Supreme Court lawyer who defended the law, called the decision “a sad moment.”

    “I find it impossible to believe that the many talented lawyers at the department could not come up with any arguments to defend the ACA’s insurance market reforms, which have made such a difference to millions of Americans,” Verrilli said.

    Shortly before the government’s court filing, three career lawyers at the Justice Department withdrew from the case and were replaced by two political appointees, according to court filings.

    Timothy Jost, law professor emeritus at Washington and Lee University in Virginia said the Trump administration is trying to persuade the court to do what it was unable to achieve in Congress last year — essentially, repeal key parts of the Obama health law.

    Jost said it’s telling that three career Justice Department lawyers refused to support the administration’s position.

    The remaining people at DOJ who want to be able to look at themselves in a mirror are shrinking.

  61. 61.

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ

    @MazeDancer: My last dangerous point was before I had children and the only thing that kept me alive was my dog, Maggie. Dear heart lived to be almost 20 years old, strange for a big dog. Since I had two children, they have been my touchstone. I will take anything I can get to anchor myself to this life. Thank you for your response–so true and beautifully written.

  64. 64.

    JustJames

    “A brave man once requested me,
    To answer questions that are key,
    Is it to be or not to be,
    And I replied oh why ask me?”

    “I laughed the loudest who’d have known?”

    When in need, ask for help.

  66. 66.

    Planetpundit

    Sadly, given his substance abuse history, the clock somewhere inside him ticking. The alarm finally went off. There was nothing anyone could do, I dare say. Very sad.

  67. 67.

    J R in WV

    @greengoblin:

    I’m really sorry. That’s horrific for anyone, let alone a family member! Take care and stay in touch with us here. While we are all ravening jackals at times, we are also compassionate most of the time!

  68. 68.

    satby

    @MazeDancer:

    Every post felt like it was talking to me. It helped immensely. Connecting in the reality we are all human always helps.

    beautifully said. And it does really help to have people to share our troubles, sorrows and occasional joys with.

  69. 69.

    J R in WV

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    Speaking of David Simon, he was kicked off Twitter.

    For wishing death upon a Trump supporter. Hard to argue about that, twittter corp was just wrong. Of course I’m not such a nice person since November, 2016.

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

    Lord knows I am no fan of Krauthammer, but I don’t wish him pain and will not rejoice at his death (mind you, I won’t be sad). There is a tight, small list of people whose deaths will cause me to whoop with joy and dance around in a frenzy of celebration. For others, like Krauthammar, i will be all Thumperish.

  74. 74.

    ruemara

    I think I’ll take a stab at it, since I kinda live it with daily, sometimes what feels like hourly. All of this I suppose has me feeling some kinda way.

    You get these flashes of things you could do to resolve the problem. Like the idea that if I downed all my blood pressure meds at once, this fucking burden could be done. Or the stash of a bottle of painkillers I still have after surgery. I could take this or I could take that and this could be finished. I can be free. I don’t have chronic physical pain, at least not as much as others, but mental & emotional pain is a throbbing thing in your system that you cannot rub or ice away. And it flares up unexpectedly too. You want it to go away. You want help in dealing with it. You’d like to reach out for support for it – that makes perfect sense. The idea that all those very nice people really mean it – that makes ZERO sense. So you pour out the pills and you think about it. It’s your world, in your palm. Which is heavier? The daily existence or the consequences if you fail? And you pour them back into the bottle or just take the amount you need for the day. Or you concentrate on your loving kittens, who really need you to get up & get them fed, plus pet them. But you have a plan even for them, if you really, finally take that step. Suicide is always there. Because that pain is always there.

    You can do the talking cure or you can get meds, but the biggest problem is meds wear off or you miss a pill & talk doesn’t fix a situation that needs fixing. I wouldn’t say I have depression, or at least have a biochemical tendency towards it, but I will say that parental neglect, abuse, poverty, being black & a recurring level of MOTHERFUCKER, THIS FUCKING SHIT WORLD basically taking home after home after home from me, it’s left me with a mind I don’t recognize. I’m not who I was when I had hope. And I have less hope each time. It’s not one thing, it’s an ongoing thing with less of what you need to give yourself the gift of time after each situation happens. Which makes you worry about the next time.

    Reaching out is good, but no one should blame themselves or wonder what they could’ve done especially when a person pre-suicide can seem friendly fun & normal. Like, I am oscar-worthy as an actress because I have been gasping for air crying and managed to be presentable within the time I hear a key in the front door to when my roommate climbs the stairs. Most of them are. The best way I can explain it is that sadness & despondency isn’t entirely the way it’s depicted. Your emotions can range even in the middle of this dark poison whispering how good it would be for this farce to end. It definitely isn’t when you’ve been trained to not show weakness or fear. It’s tough to reach out especially when you’re out of those last slivers of hope. Hope is what makes you connect to another person, to act on anything. Even to take care of yourself.

    You, as a friend, family member, partner – you’re not doing the saving. You’re giving them 1 little reason to make a different choice. When my boss committed suicide, she deliberately told her research aide who lived with her to go and have a family visit just to remove that last thread keeping her from doing it. Someone on that path is almost in a race against themselves to reweave together all the threads into a new rope to anchor themselves here. The little human contact & grace we get adds to the new rope. Sometimes, when we’re well, we can do that ourselves through engaging with others. Sometimes we do need you to make us refocus from self-destruction.

    But I’m not gonna lie. I still don’t see a future for me. I would like a family, a home, human connections, a way to retire – basic life stability. But I don’t see it happening. If I feel myself thinking about that too much, I’ve learned to redirect to something immediate that I can enjoy. Just that has helped me survive a lot. Without it, I understand entirely why people who seem to have it all commit suicide. I feel like you can mute physical pain, but the stuff in your head & heart… I don’t even drink because sobriety just sharpens the shit I tried to mute. Either fix it or go away & I’ll muddle through. No, I understand it. And I don’t mind understanding it, you need to understand the monster to fight it.

    Edited to also say, I am so sorry to those of you who have lost friends & family to suicide. It’s never easy.

  76. 76.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: I was ‘in it to win it’ until I saw “chicken livers”…ye gods!

    Nevertheless, he would know better than I would, and so I’ll try this out one day, to the letter. Thanks for sharing!

  77. 77.

    EBT

    “surely knew how to get help, but it just didn’t work and in the end they got tired of running away from the demons.”
    Sometimes it doesn’t seem like it matters, and other times it seems like help is a cruel joke. Be happy you don’t understand.

  79. 79.

    MazeDancer

    @ruemara:

    With enormous gratitude I thank you for your honesty.

    but I will say that parental neglect, abuse, poverty, being black & a recurring level of MOTHERFUCKER, THIS FUCKING SHIT WORLD basically taking home after home after home from me, it’s left me with a mind I don’t recognize.

    I know how PTSD robs life like that. So does every abused child. And too many veterans.

    Your kitties need you. Everyone on BJ needs you – I certainly do.

    Don’t let the monsters win. Just getting through a day, just breathing, is you win, monsters lose.

    Always enjoyed your posts. But did not know that you were some kind of amazingly good writer until now. Hope your writing is helping you. I journal often. Like meditation – and cats – it can change everything.

    (Please swear you’ll post “I’m in trouble” on BJ and wait and read all the posts before choosing something irreversible.)

  80. 80.

    Jeffro

    Those of you who are sharing deeply personal struggles, past and present, just know that you are appreciated and that we’re glad to – as ruemara put it at #73 – be additional threads and connections. A ‘many-threaded rope of jackals’, which makes about as much sense as the rest of our inside baseball here, but it’s true. ;)

    Please keep taking good care of yourselves.

  81. 81.

    chris

    @ruemara:

    I understand it. And I don’t mind understanding it, you need to understand the monster to fight it.

    Yes. You’ve got it, please don’t let go.

  82. 82.

    Cacti

    As someone who has experienced clinical depression, I can answer John Cole’s question about why people who are aware of crisis resources don’t reach out.

    It’s because you feel like it won’t help if you do, or it will just cause additional hassles and stress for yourself and your loved ones.

    One of the worst parts of depression is that when your symptoms are uncontrolled, you feel this crushing sense of hopelessness and despair. You feel down to your bones that you will never be happy again, or even just feel normal again, no matter what the good intentions of others. So you retreat further and further into yourself, until you begin to seriously contemplate ending it all.

  83. 83.

    L85NJGT

    You can’t ever really know, only maybe try and project yourself into someone’s dynamic. It seems to me travel was his passion and replacement fix, and at some point stopped being fun. No place was new and exotic; everywhere became someplace he had already been.

  84. 84.

    eclare

    Thank you. My parents died in February, one week apart, and one of the cats I inherited from them died this past Monday. It has been a shitty week and a shitty year, and I appreciate your post.

  85. 85.

    Ohio Mom

    @ruemara: And all this time I thought that since I recognized your nym and knew bits and pieces about you through following your comments, I had an inkling about you. No, I didn’t. I am very sorry to hear about how lonely you are.

    I hope you find the family, the home and the human connections you wish for and deserve. I don’t know why life has to be so god damn hard.

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeffro: I think you could leave those chicken livers out, or even — sacrilege — make it with only ground beef — leave out the veal and even the pork too. It will be different, but still delicious. Think it’s the texture as well as flavor that will change, but it’s a lovely rich recipe otherwise.

  87. 87.

    Keith P.

    One of my favorite Bourdain stories (and I wish I could find the video) – someone asked him when the last time was that he laughed out loud, and he says something to the effect of “Oh, man, a couple of weeks ago. Someone sent me a tweet from Guy Fieri that said ‘Hanging out with my bro’s from Johnny Garlic’s…about to head backstage to the Nickelback concert.” Tony Bourdain was a strong man not to die from the sheer initial impact of that tweet.
    And here’s the Fieri tweet!

  88. 88.

    eemom

    Krauthammer was an asshole but it’s not fair to compare him to Lee Atwater. Krauttie was just a media hack who discovered it was more profitable doing that from the right than from the left. Atwater was the founding father of ratfuckery.

  89. 89.

    Mary G

    Been reading a lot of current and former stuff on Bourdain and wish I’d paid more attention to him while he was around. He was very kind to non-famous people and like someone we all know and love, was always 15 minutes early to appointments. Always.

    Also not going to link to it because it’s too much of a downer, but the New Yorker has a column up by a woman who wrote a book about Kaiser Wilhelm, and the similarities to a certain president are horrifying.

  90. 90.

    frosty

    @ruemara: Thank you for writing this. One thing at the end struck me:

    I’ve learned to redirect to something immediate that I can enjoy.

    This is very Zen. This is how we all need to be living, in the moment, because that’s the only thing that’s real.

  91. 91.

    Elizabelle

    @eemom: However, Atwater did sincerely regret his actions, while on his deathbed. So I find him a far superior person to, say, Roger Stone, Roy Cohn, Paul Manafort, John Yee …..

    PS: I love the “Krauthammer was“. I’m not kidding about being an asshole where CK is involved. Chas. Krauthammer or Charles Koch. Both people who should stop breathing, soonest.

  92. 92.

    geg6

    @eclare:

    That’s horrible. I hold you in light.

    I have never tossed out any painkillers I’ve never used for whatever I was prescribed them. Which is a lot because I generally hate prescription pain meds. They are too much for me almost all the time. think it’s unconsciously seeing them as a form of insurance. Never been tempted yet but I can understand the impulse. My breakup with my ex almost tipped the scales, so I get it. Had therapy and it helped a lot, but it was very hard to admit I needed help. Not everyone can get there. My heart aches.

  94. 94.

    Elizabelle

    @ruemara: You’re a wonderfully descriptive writer.

    May I suggest that you put together Team ruemara from assorted jackals here, people you like who can email and CALL you to check in? Really be able to find you.

    It’s quite a selfish request, this Team ruemara, because, quite honestly, we could not bear to see you disappear into sadness. And, as you’ve learned, depression, PTSD, whatever it comprises, is quite the distorted mirror.

    I have always admired that you have such a creative spirit, appreciation for various forms of art and expression, and a solid work ethic. It’s very sad that even those qualities do not shield a friend from the Black Dog. As too many artists would attest.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    @eemom: I loved the play about Atwater’s conversion. Did you happen to see it?

    “Fixin’ to Die.” Really good.

  98. 98.

    Elizabelle

    @eclare: That’s a lot of loss, and, weirdly, the cat’s loss compounds the whole thing. I am sorry for the year you’ve had.

  99. 99.

    JanieM

    @Jeffro:

    I was ‘in it to win it’ until I saw “chicken livers”…ye gods!

    In a sad thread, this just made me chuckle. My Italian grandma was a great cook who could make wonderful food out of very little. Which was a good thing, because for a lot of her life she *had* very little. But by the time I was a kid she was doing okay, and one of her recipes that all of our tribe of cousins loved was Italian wedding soup. I have never tasted better, with one caveat: being frugal of necessity, she used everything. Including the chicken livers. I used to eat my soup very carefully in hopes of avoiding biting down on a piece of liver, which I just loathed, and still do.

  101. 101.

    eclare

    @Elizabelle: Thank you too, and yes, the cat’s death just magnifies the loss. The best the vet could tell his organs just shut down. Maybe he missed my parents too.

  103. 103.

    PhoenixRising

    @ruemara: thank you. 2 of my cousins (gunshot; drug abuss) ended their own pain this year. My aunts are suffering now, more than they did from the challenges of children in their 50s who were struggling with life. I’ve been really angry. The friend who used to explain depression and sucidial ideation to me took her own life while I was in treatment for cancer 6 years ago. So it’s been difficult to understand without her.

    You know, my mom died in March and I may not be having a good year but I just can’t understand. Thank you.

  104. 104.

    J R in WV

    You all are right about our critters, they depend upon us for everything, and in turn shed their love on us. We’re fortunate to have next-door neighbors who we know when we can no longer care for our fuzzy loved ones, they will take them in and love them as much as we do.

    Their dog comes down here every day they go to work, we call her the day care puppy. Partly it’s because our dogs get a milkbone every morning, so she does too. But partly it’s because not much happens up on the ridge when the two-leg people are gone, it’s boring.

    I’m so grateful for the puppies and kitties in times like these… they help me relax. The big indoor cat, who weighs 14.5 pounds and isn’t really fat, sleeps on the bed with us mostly. She starts the evening on my chest, purring, and as I slide into sleep, she slides off to lay between us, all warm and purring.

    I scritch her nose and ears when I wake up to move around. She really like to be under the comforter if it’s cool, on top of the quilt but under the feathers. What would we all do without the furry babies?

  107. 107.

    Elizabelle

    @eclare: One of my friends lost his 94(?) year old mother (who had a great life and went quickly, on New Year’s Eve) and then lost his ailing Golden retriever this week. He is a mess, and I think it’s because he lost both his “girls” in such short order. His son and I are trying to get him to adopt another adult dog, sooner rather than later.

    In some ways, pet loss is a much purer grief.

  108. 108.

    MoxieM

    Me, I’d be long gone except I promised my daughter I wouldn’t. I need to keep that promise. Losing my health and general mobility, living in horrible pain, has simply worn me down. I can’t really work anymore, although I would give anything to use my brain. A life without work and something worthwhile to think about truly sucks. If, eventually, I need to live out my life in some shitty old folks hovel that smells like piss and boiled green beans, so my kid doesn’t have a mom who offed herself, well, I’ll do it.

    Depression is a horrible disease.

  110. 110.

    kdaug

    Haven’t read though the thread, so I don’t know if it’s been said before:

    I firmly believe in everyone’s right to end their life as they see fit.

    I ain’t my place to question why, or what went “wrong”, or if they were “depressed”, or whatever. Everyone has that right.

    If I got a diagnosis of terminal cancer, I’d buy a gun. Not that I’d use it immediately, but if the symptoms got too bad, I’d use it.

    Given the choice between medical bankruptcy for my family, or a quick and sudden end, I’d choose the latter.

    I refuse to pass judgement on the way someone chooses to go, or pass it off as “depression”. Bullshit. Sometimes people just want out.

    (I’ll be here in 30 years, you fucking snarveling jackals. You ain’t obiting me anytime soon.)

  111. 111.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @ruemara: yeah, I hear you. It’s tough when you don’t feel like you have roots in the future, to quote Spider Robinson. My trouble is that due to my job, I am extraordinarily aware of just how little R&D is being put into climate change mitigation efforts, and so I also feel like there is very little hope for the future. At times I am relieved that my husband and I don’t have children.

  112. 112.

    eclare

    @Elizabelle: Based on a good friend’s experience, who lost a dog way too young to a car, sooner is better than later. This friend insisted it would be months before she was ready, then all of a sudden, a rescue dog called her name. Best I can say is to stay open to options, also easy for me to say.

  118. 118.

    Mary G

    @ruemara: @Elizabelle: I would like to volunteer to be on “team ruemara” or even “team Balloon Juice.” This place keeps me sane, but I am realizing I may need more in this age of Twitler. The WaPo had an article the other day about how suicides are way up, and between Kate Spade and Bourdain I’ve had a few of those “what if they’re right, and how would I do it thoughts” this evening. I won’t, but I know how easy it is to fall into that despair.

    I liked this, and it’s how I feel about all of you:

    Gnight.

    YOU ARE SO LOVED AND WE LIKE HAVING YOU AROUND.

    *ties one end of this sentence to your heart, the other end to everyone who loves you in this life, even if clouds obscure your view

    **checks knots*THERE. STAY PUT, YOU.TUG IF YOU NEED ANYTHING.

    ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️— ?? Lin-Manuel Miranda ?️‍? (@Lin_Manuel) June 9, 2018

  119. 119.

    Elizabelle

    @kdaug: Yeah, I feel the same way. Choice is good.

    Issue is (and I realize you know this): depression gives you a distorted mirror.

    I don’t think anyone was aghast at that lovely 104 year old Australian (?) scientist who flew to Europe for assisted suicide, his choice.

    61 for Bourdain, though, and Kate Spade leaving a young teenager? Both might make a different decision if they had gotten through another day or two.

  120. 120.

    Another Scott

    @ruemara: I’m very sorry you are fighting that battle, and have for so long.

    I’ve had a few bouts of depression over the years, never for very long. What kept me going was the curiosity of wondering something like “what happens after this” or the like? But it’s hard to look ahead when things seem so bad and hopeless.

    Try to find ways to keep looking forward.

    We have an important election coming up, and while things look good, we have to work together to fight to flip as many seats as possible. Not just for us and our immediate futures, but for the long-term future of the country and all her people. Think of all of those whose shoulders we stood on who keep going no matter how dire it seemed or actually was. We’re stronger than we imagine, if we let ourselves be. And we’re even stronger together.

    Your kittens need you, not some foster mom. Your friends and relations need you. We need you and your so-well-expressed wisdom and viewpoint.

    We’re losing too many good people. Please don’t be one of them. Let us know if things seem black. We can help – you know that. It’s not charity or pity – we need you.

    Hang in there.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    @Mary G: A Team Balloon Juice is good. We should do it.

    I am volunteering Alain for it. He was so lovely and discreet with the marvelous green not green’s family this past summer. Man is good in a tough situation.

    Now: who wants to hound out efgoldman? (I kid, I kid. He’s got the elegant Mrs. efg and granddaughter with baby sibling on the way to live for.)

  127. 127.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    I have efg’s email and home phone number. It’s too late to call tonight, but I’ll try tomorrow and see if there’s any news. If nothing else, I can convey good wishes from the Jackaljuicetariat.

  128. 128.

    lamh36

    FYI CNN has their Bourdain special on now…it’s 30min in tho…but I’m sure it’ll be shown again.

  133. 133.

    Kdaug

    @Elizabelle: Perhaps. And Tony had an 11yo girl.

    But a right to die is fundamental to me.

    I’ve seen people (family) hooked up to machines keeping them “alive” for years, when they are clearly gone, costing millions, because the living don’t want to let them go.

    Think Terry Shaivo. Times thousands.

    A right to die, quickly and without pain.

  135. 135.

    MazeDancer

    @MoxieM:

    Making and keeping a promise is important.

    Pain sucks. So sorry.

    Among the many good things about the internet is one can continue to use one’s brain no matter one’s health. Learning happens daily. There are a lot of people on Twitter with chronic illnesses, which they rarely mention. Like here at BJ, they are just sharing their brains – and heart – with others.

  136. 136.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mary G:

    About, I want to say, six years ago, a then-active and regular commenter became depressed/distraught enough that he seemed very close to ending everything. The Jackal community was stellar. I remember it vividly as I was driving from Martin, TN back to Atlanta. But I pulled over at every rest stop opportunity to check in on the thread and provide whatever support I was capable of. Lots of commenters were there nonstop, like a suicide hotline. It was an extraordinary afternoon.

    I often think about that person. I have an idea he changed his nym but I don’t recall the new handle and have no idea if he’s stillborn around, as active commenter or as quiet lurker.

  139. 139.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Elizabelle:

    IIRC, baby’s not due until late Aug/early Sept. But I will certainly ask about progress and how granddaughter is preparing to be a big sister!

  143. 143.

    Steve in the ATL

    @SiubhanDuinne: pain is slightly diminished, and it now appears that she has an abscess in the back of her abdomen to match the one in front. Ah, symmetry!

    Meanwhile, English bulldog has puked up both her breakfast and dinner. Perhaps a commentary on the new joint-friendly dog food.

  144. 144.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  ??

    So OT: My father was telling us about some post from a Knights Templar International on Facebook. Somebody shared it and it appeared in his feed. It was mostly text set against a background of lightning and dark clouds. The text read, “A generation taught to hate the country will refuse to defend it as well.”

    He literally didn’t grasp that it was far-right propaganda. The fact that the name of the Facebook page was the “Knights Templar” clued me in.

    When called out he claimed he didn’t think much about it. I know he’s smarter than that. He disputed it being a far-right outfit by citing some stupid meme it posted that compared celebrities on a yacht and an empty, rusted out boat. My feeling was it was claiming the refugees on small boats/rafts from Syria were “celebrities” or something? His take? They were making fun of the rich. Yeah.

  146. 146.

    Olivia

    It is so painful to think of someone hurting so badly that death seems like a reasonable solution. As a survivor of the suicide of a child, I feel so bad that I physically hurt for his family, his child, his friends. If he knew how horrible it would be for them, he may not have done it.

  148. 148.

    Steve in the ATL

    @eclare: wife lost her favoritest dog ever to cancer a few years ago and swore it would be years before she could have another. Our breeder had a litter ready a few weeks later and I surprised her with Jasper. A golden retriever puppy cures almost every type and degree of sadness.

  149. 149.

    Quinerly

    @Mary G: Did you read the Rolling Stone piece on Bourdain? Well worth it. Esquire and The New Yorker have good pieces up too.

  150. 150.

    Kdaug

    I understand spirals of despair and depression. I understand waiting a week, or a month, or fucking ten years is sometimes required to recover. Sooner or later, something breaks the spell, and you’re better. But when you’re depressed, the last thing you want to hear is “wait it out”.

  154. 154.

    eclare

    @SiubhanDuinne: Who was that a couple of years ago that somehow we got 911 on the phone for? I think she/he fell or passed out in the bathroom. We can do this.

  155. 155.

    Elizabelle

    From FTF NY Times: What to Do When a Loved One Is Severely Depressed

    Don’t underestimate the power of showing up

    You may not feel that your presence is wanted. But just being by the side of someone who is depressed, and reminding her that she is special to you, is important to ensuring that she does not feel alone …

    Don’t try to cheer him up or offer advice

    … “Your job as a support person is not to cheer people up. It’s to acknowledge that it sucks right now, and their pain exists,” she said.

    Instead of upbeat rebuttals about why it’s not so bad, she recommended trying something like, “It sounds like life is really overwhelming for you right now.”

    If you want to say something positive, focus on highlighting what he means to you, Dr. Rosenthal advised. And though offering suggestions for how to improve his life will be tempting, simply listening is better.

    It’s O.K. to ask if she is having suicidal thoughts

    Lots of people struggle with depression without ever considering suicide. But depression is often a factor.

    Although you may worry that asking, “Are you thinking about killing yourself?” will insult someone you’re trying to help — or worse, encourage her to go in that direction — experts say the opposite is true.

    “It’s important to know you can’t trigger suicidal thinking just by asking about it,” said Allen Doederlein, the executive vice president of external affairs at the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance.

    If the answer is yes, it’s crucial that you calmly ask when and how; it’s much easier to help prevent a friend from hurting herself if you know the specifics.

    Take any mention of death seriously

    Make getting to that first appointment as easy as possible

    …That might mean sitting next to your friend as he calls to make the appointment, finding counseling that he can afford, or even going with him that first time, if you’re comfortable with it.

    Take care of yourself and set boundaries

    When the thoughtful and kind people we’ve loved for years are depressed, they may also become uncharacteristically mean and self-centered. It’s exhausting, painful and hard to know how to respond when they pick fights or send nasty texts.

    “You don’t have to attend every argument you are invited to,” Ms. Devine said. [Now there’s a concept!]

    Still, just because someone is depressed is not a reason to let their abusive behavior slide. Set clear boundaries with straightforward language such as, “It sounds like you’re in a lot of pain right now. But you can’t call me names.”

    Remember, people do recover from depression

  157. 157.

    debbie

    @Olivia:

    Not to be oversharing or anything, but I was a twice-failed suicide in my adolescence. It didn’t occur to me until many, many years later just how much it must have wounded my parents. I regret I didn’t have this realization before they both died. Now my guilt is greater than theirs.

  160. 160.

    satby

    @ruemara: ruemara, add me to “team you”. I wish virtual friends were as comforting as a warm body right next to you, but we’re here for you when you need us. I’m so sorry that you are going through this.

    Someone on that path is almost in a race against themselves to reweave together all the threads into a new rope to anchor themselves here. The little human contact & grace we get adds to the new rope.

    We’re all intertwined, like the fibers on that rope, and when one fiber breaks the whole rope is made weaker. Remember us, all twined around you in cyberspace, holding you.

    Edit: and that goes for every jackal that struggles with depression.

  161. 161.

    Elizabelle

    @debbie: Wow. Do not be so hard on yourself. It’s past, and your parents are beyond it. They were probably just thrilled to have you survive.

  162. 162.

    Olivia

    @debbie: I am so glad for you and your parents that you failed twice. You have a unique perspective, don’t feel guilty. You can help someone because of your experience.

  165. 165.

    debbie

    @Olivia:

    That’s very generous of you. My father’s cancer returned a year after my second attempt and it killed him. My act and my father’s death totally whacked my mother’s immune system for the rest of her life. So, yeah, there is guilt, but it is what it is.

    I actually did help someone after his son committed suicide his first year in college. That’s what led me to realize the impact of my actions — seeing it from the other side, like “It’s a Wonderful Life,” but in reverse.

  167. 167.

    Olivia

    I understand about the guilt and yes, it is what it is.I feel guilt too, that I should have done more. Thank you for helping the person who lost his son.

  168. 168.

    Steve in the ATL

    @debbie: any and all ideas are welcome at this point! Will ask about that, but the GI doctor is finally coming around to my pregnant with an alien baby theory

  169. 169.

    Olivia

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thank you, I appreciate the thought. Saying “Thank you” seems not quite adequate as well. I always hesitate to say anything because I am not looking for sympathy. But I know that reminding people that they have loved ones who would be devastated by their actions might make them stop and think about what they think is a solution.

  173. 173.

    MoxieM

    @MazeDancer: Thank you so much. You are very kind.

    I didn’t add all the stuff about my mother’s multiple attempts, or her uncle’s successful encounter with his gun–well before my time–or other, younger relatives and their attempts. But it clearly runs in the fam.

    I am so very sorry for every one else touched by this in any way.

  174. 174.

    Jager

    I’ve been down the depression road, way down. Down it to the point when the planning was so precise I was trying to figure out how I could eat the shotgun and not make a mess of the house, the porch or the patio. A plastic sheet maybe? What would Anze the Dog do?,How would he react? What would he do until Mrs. J came home? How would she feel? How would she react to the letter I’d written? My girls, my grand children, my friends, what would they think and feel?

    I finally figured out that my personal pain, pain that I’m strong enough to carry. Pain I could tolerate with help and support. I just couldn’t push it off on people who loved and needed me in their lives.

    The last few years haven’t been easy, but there have been moments of great joy. If you need help, get it for chissakes. Do it.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    @Mary G:

    I would like to volunteer to be on “team ruemara” or even “team Balloon Juice.” This place keeps me sane, but I am realizing I may need more in this age of Twitler

    Me too!

    I have been through some hotline training and I’m a pretty good listener (even via email) so sign me up for team ‘Listening Ear’ here.

  178. 178.

    Ruckus

    @geg6:
    Been gone for a few hrs and am just reading this.
    So sorry for this, it has to be hard on you and those around this gentleman.
    The VA works very hard to stem the tide of vet suicide. It is and has been a real problem for combat vets for decades and probably a lot longer. I don’t see too many younger people at the VA, those with combat experience in this century but they are around. I met one while trying to work on my issues with my cancer and it brought back visions of something I’ve written about a few times. Sitting in group, in a locked ward that someone had to let me and a Marine sergeant in and out of every day. Everyone there was suffering from what is now known as PTSD, at a minimum. As I believe the fella I’m talking about now. It is a very difficult thing to work through and get to the other side. For some it’s a life long trek. This is the only place I’ve heard people open up about their pain. And you don’t want to know about that. I didn’t either. One way you can tell I’m not a combat vet is that I’ll discuss my service, events, people, places. I didn’t always like it and I don’t remember it fondly but it also doesn’t give me nightmares or worse.

  179. 179.

    West of the Rockies

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Had to disappear for a while, so I missed your response, but I will try to email you when I’m passing through again.

    Ever been to the Arcata Pizza Deli?

  180. 180.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:
    Please tell him he doesn’t have to blame himself. His action was not out of the ordinary. His friend’s was. Could he have helped? Maybe. I took a suicide call once. But back 40+ yrs ago getting help to that call took a minimum of an hour, usually like two hrs. I talked for 45 minutes. This woman was cool, calm, collected, and sure of what would be best for her. Nothing I could and did say changed what she was thinking. She finally said she had to go and hung up. I was totally drained and about to cry because I didn’t think I did anything. My co-worker, a great woman just a few years younger than my mom told me, “You gave her 45 minutes. You kept her talking and not doing what she called about. She may not carry it out. You gave her 45 minutes.” And that’s the best we can do. We aren’t responsible for adult people doing what they want to do. We help with what we can, we feel guilt when it doesn’t work but people are responsible for their own lives. Some will say that if they make this decision they are no longer responsible. But they are. It isn’t fair, it doesn’t feel right, we know they made a bad decision. But it is theirs, yours and everyone else’s to make. You have to decide to go forward for yourself, everyone does. Some decide not to. To those who have made and continue to make the decision to continue, in other words, most people, it seems wrong that others can’t see what we see, that it’s worth putting one foot in front of the other, taking another breath and another and another. But it’s a choice we make and they made a different one. We don’t have to like it, but I think we need to respect that for them this is their choice.

  181. 181.

    Ruckus

    @ruemara:
    Let me know if you need someone to talk to.
    I’m not in your situation or position but I’ve got long term stuff that keeps getting worse, a little bit most every day. I’ve determined that not giving in is the answer. I don’t know how to continue but I’m determined because, well I am. Maybe I can find a cup of determination for you.

  183. 183.

    Psych1

    @Ms. D. Ranged in AZ: @Ruckus: it is a very complex issue but suicides of celebrities and suicides of combat vets generally represent different dynamics. The VA is very aware that many of their suicidal population are also potentially homicidal. “Danger to self & others “

  184. 184.

    seaboogie

    Anthony Bourdain’s death affected me pretty hard today. I know that he was an intense and deep feeling person who has wrestled many demons in his life. And also honest, genuine and present. I feel especially bad that his best friend Eric Ripert discovered his body.

    There are many ways to get to suicide, I think. For some it is a deep depression. For others avoiding the complications of a terminal illness. On the darker end of things, it’s an anger-induced last word.

    When I was in the throes of suicidal ideation, it was a combination of that last thing, and a deep self-loathing…a real desire to obliterate myself. Thankfully, with the benefit of therapy and much time in solitary contemplation, I don’t feel that strong pull anymore. But that that stuff is real, and it’s easier to get to that place than you think. Now, if that beast rears it’s ugly head, I can witness it and recognize it for what it is.

  185. 185.

    Ruckus

    @Psych1:

    The VA is very aware that many of their suicidal population are also potentially homicidal.

    This is true and was one reason that the ward was locked. Two sets of locked doors. A lot of the guys in that ward were heavily medicated, one fella who had gotten off the plane from Vietnam in I think Guam where you turned in your weapon (to be checked out and given to someone going the other way) and then a second plane back to the states. He had managed to keep a bunch of ammo somehow and got away and up into the hills where he would shoot at anyone trying to get to him. I don’t know if they waited him out or what but he didn’t hurt anyone, they brought him home and put him on a mega dose of thorazine. He’d sit there nodding off and every so often he wake up and go on incoherently. In some ways I think some of the guys not as bad off as him could see that not every thing was lost. I can’t remember saying a word in 2 months in that room. It wouldn’t have been fair. He’s one of the guys I think might still be in a hospital some where. I can’t see how he could get over whatever it was. And while he wasn’t actively attacking anyone, he was not above shooting everyone who came near.
    As I see that in my 45 yrs since I was discharged combat hasn’t changed what it does to people, I can easily imagine a vet being potentially homicidal. I’ve know one who was. All it took was access to a weapon and ammo.

  186. 186.

    SgrAstar

    @ruemara: thank you for sharing yourself with us. I absolutely benefit from your perspective- we jackals really are your friends, in a weird but serious way. I hope you can take some comfort from that. We’re your campfire, the warmth is real.

  187. 187.

    gene108

    @ruemara:

    Thank you for sharing. We would miss you, if you were not here.

    I still don’t see a future for me. I would like a family, a home, human connections, a way to retire – basic life stability. But I don’t see it happening. If I feel myself thinking about that too much, I’ve learned to redirect to something immediate that I can enjoy.

    I had those sort of feelings for a long time. They dominated my self view. When things were getting bad, I had thought distracting myself was all I needed. But I couldn’t keep distracting myself from e negative thoughts. And then I got so depressed I became psychotic, and I started acting on the voices in my head. Eventually I tried killing myself.

    Basically, all I am trying to say, is please reach out somehow to get help. Feeling like there is no future is not a good place to be mentally and with work it can change, because as long as you are alive there is always hope and a way to have a better tomorrow.

    If nothing else, please reach out to us at Balloon-Juice.

    Also, you seem to have an interesting job that takes you all over the country, as well as engaging in something very creative with regards to your film making and probably meeting interesting people. I sit behind a desk all day working in Quickbooks, and with spreadsheets. I always wish I could do something creative, but can never think of what to do or how to do it, but you are able to write, produce films, and that is wonderful.

    Anyway, please reach out. We are all here to help.

  188. 188.

    MomSense

    @ruemara:

    Rue, thank you for sharing this. I value you and your presence so much. You write with such insight and clarity and always pierce through to find the truth in every subject. That you are hurting so and still busting your ass to create beauty and joy through your work moves me. One of the dearest people in my life, also an artist, shares this with you. I always pray that I can pierce through to tell him how much I love him and respect him. I hope I can pierce through to tell you how important you are to me and so many of us here. I wish I could remove some of the financial worries for you but I share this burden with you. It is incredibly stressful and saps so much energy but please just stick with us. We will sort this out. When I was in a bad state Satby told me not to worry, that she had room in her house. I’m saying the same to you now. And I know there are other Jackals who will open their doors to you if you need help. Just please stick with us. We really do love you here. Add me to the Team Rue roster.

  189. 189.

    James Powell

    @ruemara:

    Thanks for sharing. With a change to two or three details, that’s me. Especially the last full paragraph.

  190. 190.

    Denali

    @Ruemara,

    Please add me to the TeamRuemara. Thank you for your illuminating post. We all value your presence here in the present and in the future. You have an amazing way of speaking for all of us.

  191. 191.

    Uncle Cosmo

    I dunno if this came out of depression or despair – hard to tell the difference sometimes, though there is a difference. FWIW, my nominee for the darkest-night-of-the-soul poem in the Anglos-Saxon canon* – from the 1930s, when the North Pole was still an inconceivably distant & exotic destination:

    90 NORTH
    By Randall Jarrell

    At home, in my flannel gown, like a bear to its floe,
    I clambered to bed; up the globe’s impossible sides
    I sailed all night—till at last, with my black beard,
    My furs and my dogs, I stood at the northern pole.

    There in the childish night my companions lay frozen,
    The stiff furs knocked at my starveling throat,
    And I gave my great sigh: the flakes came huddling,
    Were they really my end? In the darkness I turned to my rest.

    —Here, the flag snaps in the glare and silence
    Of the unbroken ice. I stand here,
    The dogs bark, my beard is black, and I stare
    At the North Pole . . .
                                            And now what? Why, go back.

    Turn as I please, my step is to the south.
    The world—my world spins on this final point
    Of cold and wretchedness: all lines, all winds
    End in this whirlpool I at last discover.

    And it is meaningless. In the child’s bed
    After the night’s voyage, in that warm world
    Where people work and suffer for the end
    That crowns the pain—in that Cloud-Cuckoo-Land

    I reached my North and it had meaning.
    Here at the actual pole of my existence,
    Where all that I have done is meaningless,
    Where I die or live by accident alone—

    Where, living or dying, I am still alone;
    Here where North, the night, the berg of death
    Crowd me out of the ignorant darkness,
    I see at last that all the knowledge
     
    I wrung from the darkness—that the darkness flung me—
    Is worthless as ignorance: nothing comes from nothing,
    The darkness from the darkness. Pain comes from the darkness 
    And we call it wisdom. It is pain.

    Note the final 5 lines in particular. Been there, done that.

    I* know of nothing comparable in English other than Gerard Manley Hopkins’ “terrible sonnets” – but that knowledge is not only incomplete but “worthless as ignorance”…

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