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When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

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America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

Not all heroes wear capes.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

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I really should read my own blog.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

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You are here: Home / This is Spot On

This is Spot On

by John Cole|  June 25, 20187:55 pm| 268 Comments

This post is in: Fuck Yeah!

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There is so much to excerpt here but I will just give you this:

One thing that people who wield great power often fail to viscerally understand is what it feels like to have power wielded against you. This imbalance is the source of many of the most monstrous decisions that get made by powerful people and institutions. The people who start the wars do not have bombs dropped on their houses. The people who pass the laws that incarcerate others never have to face the full force of the prison system themselves. The people who design the economic system that inflicts poverty on millions are themselves rich. This sort of insulation from the real world consequences of political and economic decisions makes it very easy for powerful people to approve of things happening to the rest of us that they would never, ever tolerate themselves. No health insurance CEO would watch his child die due to their inability to afford quality health care. No chickenhawk Congressman will be commanding a tank battle in Iran. No opportunistic race-baiting politician will be shunned because of their skin color. Zealots condemn gay people—except for their own gay children. The weed-smoking of young immigrants should get them deported—but our own weed-smoking was a youthful indiscretion. Environmentalist celebrities fly on carbon-spouting private jets. Banks make ostentatious charity donations while raking in billions from investments in defense contractors and gun manufacturers and oil companies. This is human nature. It is very, very easy to do things that hurt others as long as those same things benefit, rather than hurt, you. Self-justification is a specialty of mankind.

***

This is all going to get more extreme. And it should. We are living in extreme times. The harm that is being done to all of us by the people in the American government is extreme. To imagine that Mexican immigrants should happily cook for and serve meals to people who enable a man who is determined to demonize and persecute them as subhuman criminals is far more outrageous than the idea that those enablers should not be served in restaurants. I do not believe that Trump administration officials should be able to live their lives in peace and affluence while they inflict serious harms on large portions of the American population. Not being able to go to restaurants and attend parties and be celebrated is just the minimum baseline here. These people, who are pushing America merrily down the road to fascism and white nationalism, are delusional if they do not think that the backlash is going to get much worse. Wait until the recession comes. Wait until Trump starts a war. Wait until the racism this administration is stoking begins to explode into violence more frequently. Read a fucking history book. Read a recent history book. The U.S. had thousands of domestic bombings per year in the early 1970s. This is what happens when citizens decide en masse that their political system is corrupt, racist, and unresponsive. The people out of power have only just begun to flex their dissatisfaction. The day will come, sooner that you all think, when Trump administration officials will look back fondly on the time when all they had to worry about was getting hollered at at a Mexican restaurant. When you aggressively fuck with people’s lives, you should not be surprised when they decide to fuck with yours.

No one is calling for political violence or anything like that. But you take away people’s ability to vent their frustrations by yelling “Fuck you fascist” or doing something minor like telling some scumbag to get the fuck out of your restaurant, well, then you’re actually heading down a dangerous road.

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Reader Interactions

268Comments

  1. 1.

    dr. bloor

    June 25, 2018 at 7:57 pm

    Yeah, saw that earlier. Hamilton makes me roll my eyes a bit too often to make him a must-read, but he nails the fuck out of it on this one. He had me at “visceral.”

  2. 2.

    Trentrunner

    June 25, 2018 at 7:59 pm

    Trump just tweeted that the Dems are going to “escalate to violence.”

    So, thanks to MSM and spineless Dems, kids ripped from their families by the US is no longer the headline.

  3. 3.

    A Ghost To Most

    June 25, 2018 at 8:02 pm

    @Trentrunner

    “Trump just tweeted that the Dems are going to “escalate to violence.””

    Dogwhistle to the hillbilly SS.

  4. 4.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:04 pm

    @Trentrunner: There’s an easy rebuttal to that.

    “You mean, Dems might escalate to separating families for minor infractions? But wait, someone already does that.”

    This is less a case of ‘spineless dems’ and more a case of “the media treats democrats very differently and democrats know it.”

  5. 5.

    jl

    June 25, 2018 at 8:06 pm

    @Trentrunner: I just saw that at joshtpm. I don’t think Trump himself wrote it: grammatical clauses, logical (if repellent) line of argument. But, notice how quickly the smears spread to domestic enemies who look like the good folk.

    Election in November gets more important with each one of their outrages. Further the federal government goes down the road of undemocratic authoritarianism, the uglier it will be to turn back. Powerful election results can help the country start turning back sooner rather than later.

  6. 6.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    June 25, 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Yep! There’s no comparison.

    I found this take, in Vox today, to be a good one too.

  7. 7.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 8:08 pm

    Fuck yeah.
    That is all.

    Or as a more eloquent man wrote:
    “Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword…”

  8. 8.

    jl

    June 25, 2018 at 8:09 pm

    Let’s see to what extent the civility police are put on the case of this outrageous Trump tweet (though I think someone else wrote it. Miller?). Or will it be deemed uncivil not to agree that this is just (supposedly) Trump venting, and you know, he talks that way?

  9. 9.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:12 pm

    No one is calling for political violence or anything like that.

    A day or two ago I was on the phone with a friend/distant relative who detests Trump (good!) and was openly hoping that someone would assassinate him (bad!)

    I almost jumped through the telephone when she said that, screaming “NOOOOOOOOO!!”. I bow to no one in my utter detestation of Donald Trump, but no matter how much I hate him and how much I wish all kinds of bad shit to happen to him, I cannot in any way countenance murder. This is not how we’re supposed to resolve even the most profound of political differences in this country. I thought so in 1963; I knew so in 1968; and by now it is such a bedrock principle that I can’t even bear to hear someone casually mention a violent solution.

  10. 10.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:13 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    I’m still showing up at the march this Saturday. How about you?

    That’s how we change the topic back.

  11. 11.

    PJ

    June 25, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    Preach.

    To paraphrase somebody’s tweet I saw today, civility and human decency are not close to being equivalent, and to elevate civility, or even to treat them the same, means that decency will always get the shaft.

  12. 12.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:14 pm

    I think we’re seeing a real pushback on civility policing. “You can’t be MEAN to Nazi’s!” is a bridge too far for most people, especially in the case of SHS. She was politely and privately asked to leave because she was serially dishonest in service of a repugnant man and repugnant initiatives, and the restaurant and her party was comped for their drinks and appetizers.

    The real problem is that the media and political complex don’t want ANY consequences for their bad behavior. Republican politicians don’t want to be held accountable for the vast amount of racist, sexist and destructive things they do – they’re trying to say that the only valid pushback is at the ballot box while trying to restrict the ability of the voters to hold them accountable at said ballot box. The media is sensitive to republican concerns because they always are, but there are huge amount of pundits that are just as awful and just as much mouthpieces for Trump as SHS. If she gets punished in even slight ways, they might get punished too. And they can’t have that.

    Dem pundits who agree about civility just need to pull their heads out of their asses. They don’t want to believe their friends are knowingly bad people, because then they would have to stop appearing with them for ‘hot takes’ and propaganda under the guise of vigorous debate.

  13. 13.

    TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate)

    June 25, 2018 at 8:15 pm

    Wait until the full economic effect of the tariffs lands. Canada is enacting their retaliatory tariffs pretty soon….The fainting couch industry will at least get a bump with all the incivility we’ll be drowning in.

  14. 14.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’d settle for imprisonment. Or honestly, as much as I detest violence I think if someone just decked him after he disrespected them, I’d be okay with it. It would do a lot to puncture him and his own image as a tough guy.

    He’s a 239+ lb fat old white guy with no muscles. Short of him falling on someone, he’s no physical threat to anyone even as he pretends differently.

  15. 15.

    Shell

    June 25, 2018 at 8:17 pm

    And now Schumer is tut-tutting about Congresswoman Waters’ statements.

  16. 16.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:17 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    OMFG. I didn’t realize that the Post actually used the following example in their execrable editorial:

    How hard is it to imagine, for example, people who strongly believe that abortion is murder deciding that judges or other officials who protect abortion rights should not be able to live peaceably with their families?

    Nobody has to “imagine” that, chief, because it’s already fucking happening and has been for the past 30 years.

    What fucking turnip truck did the WaPo fall off of that they didn’t know this was already happening?

  17. 17.

    B.B.A.

    June 25, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    I pray that there’s no further violence, but they’ve already brought the violence to us.

    Heather Heyer’s body lies a-moldering in the grave…

  18. 18.

    Mary G

    June 25, 2018 at 8:20 pm

    The titans of money congregate on Wall Street and the titans of government congregate in DC and they all make decisions that often disenfranchise and impoverish and frustrate the dreams of people far away, and then they go to nice restaurants and go home to nice houses and have nice, well-paid careers for decades to come. That is our system. There is little incentive for those who work within that system to change it in a way that might create the sort of negative feedback that can be unpleasant. Therefore it is the job of the public to do just that. Doing so is, in fact, a public service. It promotes good government.

    If we just go along, we are abrogating our civic duty. These people deserve what they are getting (heckled at movie theaters, etc). And Nolan’s right, this could get a lot worse fast.

  19. 19.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    Fucking
    Nym
    Gone

  20. 20.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    June 25, 2018 at 8:21 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Where are the girls?

    Where are the toddlers?

    Where are the infants?

    We need independent video, photos and reports from journalists.

    Don’t let them change the subject.

  21. 21.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    June 25, 2018 at 8:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    They don’t personally see or experience it, so it doesn’t happen.
    Awareness factor of zero.

  22. 22.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:26 pm

    @Shell: Schumer is starting to bug me more and more. Up until recently I’d thought he was a decent enough (if uninspiring) leader, but he’s shooting himself in the foot lately.

    @efgoldman: Well, that’s certainly a new meaning for “FNG”.

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. That WaPo editorial is getting a LOT of pushback as being utterly ridiculous, and for good reason.

  23. 23.

    Honus

    June 25, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    @TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate): Harley Davidson is moving production to Brazil, India and Thailand. Because of trump’s tariffs.

  24. 24.

    piratedan

    June 25, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    a case of the WaPo wandering through the neighborhood with all of these glass houses with broken windows until they come to the block where everything is intact with mounds of throwing stones piled up in the yard…and don’t notice a damn thing wrong with this picture….

  25. 25.

    Trentrunner

    June 25, 2018 at 8:28 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: Schumer, Booker, and Pelosi have swatted down Maxine Waters and pleaded for “civility.”

    Dems, always ALWAYS bringing a gun to a knife fight.

    There are hundreds of children being TRAUMATIZED for LIFE right this minute because of what our country has done.

    So I’m real fucking glad that Dem leadership is making sure we’re all using the right fucking fork for this shit salad.

  26. 26.

    jacy

    June 25, 2018 at 8:29 pm

    The Boyfriend and I were talking the other day, and we both think that we don’t get out of the summer without bloodshed. Maybe just a little. Maybe more. Things are too amped up, and I fear they’re going to get more amped the more unhinged Trump becomes. He’s running out of ways to lash out, and he has to keep becoming more outrageous and more incendiary. There are going to be more protests. People are going to get more fed up with each other. It’ll be summer. It’ll be hot. People will be miserable. The economy may start to show some cracks. I’m not imagining riots, but I am imagining clashes, and some of those clashes are likely to be fatal. I just don’t see anything that’s going to change this trajectory before the midterms. But I do think that there is a huge wave coming, because the people who are going to vote are people that aren’t being paid attention to right now: women, youngs, people of color. They tend not to be counted. They tend to be invisible while the talking heads are falling all over themselves to ask what the fabled “white working class” wants, as if we had been swept into the past when some of us were only 3/5 of a person. At least that’s what I hope.

    Registered my kid to vote today. That’s one 18-year-old, at least.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Sure, I’m totally down with everything you mention. Life in prison? Great! Deck him? Bring it! Major cardiovascular event? I’m there!

    (Like your ideas, subscribe to your newsletter?)

  28. 28.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 8:30 pm

    Its funny how the tone police always act like sharp language is new, unheard of, when it has been the norm in American politics.

    “Corporate cunning has developed faster than the laws of nation and state,” he remarked to the reporter Lindsay Denison. “Sooner or later, unless there is a readjustment, there will come a riotous, wicked, murderous day of atonement.”

    Theodore Roosevelt

  29. 29.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:31 pm

    @jacy:

    The economy may start to show some cracks.

    You might be right – this is already happening, as some of the tariffs are taking effects and just completely screwing some voters. Most of them are Trump voters, though – so far, they’ve been willing to forgive them. They’re just surprised the leopard is eating their face, is all.

    @Trentrunner: Pelosi is generally pretty awesome, so this makes me sad. I’ll have to read what she said. :(

  30. 30.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    “We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

    They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

    Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.”

    Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  31. 31.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:32 pm

    @B.B.A.:

    Heather Heyer’s body lies a-moldering in the grave…

    ?

  32. 32.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    @jacy:

    My niece voted in the CA primary. We are so proud. ?

  33. 33.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 8:33 pm

    We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills.

    Winston Churchill, shrill and uncivil Nazi-puncher

  34. 34.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Shell:
    And Chuck can go Phuck himself?

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 8:34 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    ?????
    Always glad to hear about New voters.

  36. 36.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Trentrunner is well-known for, shall we say, hyperbole when it comes to the Democratic leadership, so I would definitely read everything for yourself.

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    And yet killing her and injuring a dozen other people wasn’t as “uncivil” as refusing SHS service in a restaurant. Fuck these assholes. ?

  37. 37.

    Mary G

    June 25, 2018 at 8:35 pm

    @The Ancient Randonneur: I’m sorry, I just copied your comment, added a sentence and tweeted it out. That was wrong of me, but I have to pee and didn’t ask first.

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    June 25, 2018 at 8:36 pm

    @Chip Daniels:

    Its funny how the tone police always act like sharp language is new, unheard of, when it has been the norm in Ameeircan politics.

    It’s also amazing how infrequently Republicans are criticized for sharp language. It’s almost as if civility is just another excuse for the media to put their thumb on the scale.

  39. 39.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    @The Ancient Randonneur:
    Amen

  40. 40.

    JGabriel

    June 25, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    I look forward to the day when all of America hates Donald Trump at the same rate as we do in Manhattan.

  41. 41.

    sukabi

    June 25, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    @B.B.A.: The violence inflicted by pro life, white nationalists, Nazis, skin heads, Talibangicals doesn’t matter to the media because it’s in support of policies that most of them agree with, and if they don’t agree with the policy they’ll still both sides the violence because they know the policies and the violence won’t affect them.

    This is all a game to them. Your suffering is their sport.

  42. 42.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:38 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Trump just tweeted that the Dems are going to “escalate to violence.”

    Remember, everything is projection. Trumpsters are going to get violent.

  43. 43.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    @B.B.A.:
    But her soul goes marching on.

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Her high school got REALLY activated by Parkland. These kids are mad as hell at the adults who refuse to do anything about gun violence.

  45. 45.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    @Honus:
    But, it’s MAGA ??

  46. 46.

    MagdaInBlack

    June 25, 2018 at 8:40 pm

    These people have always been terrified that what they were doing to the powerless, would one day happen to them, should the powerless rise. So now poor Sarah has been refused service, and OMG the peasants are revolting! The end is nigh!

    They’re terrified.
    Good.

  47. 47.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Fucking
    Nym
    Gone

    Try typing “SiubhanDuinne” over and fucking over, again and a-fucking-gain.

    Alain is a hella nice guy, but he has a LOT to answer for!

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:41 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    and by now it is such a bedrock principle that I can’t even bear to hear someone casually mention a violent solution.

    Expect this to be tested severely for the foreseeable future.

  49. 49.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 25, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @Chip Daniels: The tone police really need to read up on 19th Century US politics.

  50. 50.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @JGabriel:

    We’re not far behind you here in Los Angeles. Even old white dudes hate Trump and say so in public, repeatedly.

  51. 51.

    JGabriel

    June 25, 2018 at 8:42 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Schumer is starting to bug me more and more. Up until recently I’d thought he was a decent enough (if uninspiring) leader, but he’s shooting himself in the foot lately.

    I’ve been vaguely irritated with Schumer for years now. I don’t think he’s a bad guy; it’s just that he’s too centrist for NY. I think we should be able to do better.

    Unfortunately, between his seniority, incumbency, and campaign warchest, it’s pretty difficult for anyone to primary him – and he’s not really bad enough to make the case that someone should.

    So we’re stuck with benign mediocrity.

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:43 pm

    @Shell:

    And now Schumer is tut-tutting about Congresswoman Waters’ statements.

    Pasta or Anthrax? Both sides! //

  53. 53.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Schumer is starting to bug me more and more. Up until recently I’d thought he was a decent enough (if uninspiring) leader, but he’s shooting himself in the foot lately.

    He’s an asshole. A parody of every bipartisan Kumbaya cliche ever.

  54. 54.

    JGabriel

    June 25, 2018 at 8:44 pm

    Mnemosyne:

    We’re not far behind you here in Los Angeles. Even old white dudes hate Trump and say so in public, repeatedly.

    Well, that’s somewhat comforting.

  55. 55.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    @MagdaInBlack:

    They’re terrified.

    THINK this is right. Hope it is right, anyhow

  56. 56.

    DanF

    June 25, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    I’m telling you, congress needs to be increased in size and the positions filled by lottery. We’ll have the same percentage of morons, but it’ll be more humane.

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Pelosi is generally pretty awesome, so this makes me sad.

    She has to play the moderate face for the public.

    Unfortunately, these are not times for moderation.

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:46 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m braced.

  59. 59.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:47 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    This. The LAST thing we need is for Trump to be turned into a fucking martyr. And he would be. ?

  60. 60.

    Dorothy Winsor

    June 25, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    OT but I blogged about how scenes need internal and external turning points if they’re to be compelling.

    I’m talking about fiction. I’d like to see some turning points in the god awful story we’re living through too.

  61. 61.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    Battery down to 4%. Recharge time. Back in a bit.

  62. 62.

    Honus

    June 25, 2018 at 8:48 pm

    @jacy: I’m afraid you may be right. I’m a Charlottesville resident and Jason Kessler is already petitioning the federal court to allow an anniversary rally because, you know, last year’s was so successfull.

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:49 pm

    @TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate):

    Canada is enacting their retaliatory tariffs pretty soon….

    Starting in July. Followed Immediately by EU tariffs. On top of China’s & Mexico’s tariffs currently on.

    South Korea and Japanese tariffs also expected before the end of the year.

    Which leaves only Australia as our last remaining major trade partner we haven’t kicked off economic hostilities with.

  64. 64.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @DanF:

    I’m telling you, congress needs to be increased in size and the positions filled by lottery. We’ll have the same percentage of morons, but it’ll be more humane.

    You really want to risk putting me in Congress?

    What are you thinking!

  65. 65.

    gene108

    June 25, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Republicans have been threatening political violence via “2nd Amendment remedies “ for ages.

    I believe one Democratic, incumbent, in Raleigh NC area, in 2010, stopped holding rallies because of threats of violence.

    Remember the “Summer of Rage”, in 2009?

    We are being angels in comparison.

    Dems need to remind people of that.

  66. 66.

    smintheus

    June 25, 2018 at 8:50 pm

    Calling for ‘Second Amendment’ solutions to the tyranny of Obama was Authentic Americana. Asking a scheming and vituperative Top Official to eat someone else’s food is uncivil, unsanitary, and practically unheard of.

  67. 67.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Alain is a hella nice guy, but he has a LOT to answer for!

    Do we blame Alain for FWYP?
    Might’s well blame Tommy

  68. 68.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @Honus:

    Did he chicken out of holding a triumphant rally in DC? That was the last I heard.

    Remember, the Nazis “won” their court case to march in Skokie (IL), but chickened out when they saw how huge the counter-protest crowd was. Take a page from Skokie’s book. ?

  69. 69.

    TenguPhule

    June 25, 2018 at 8:52 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Worse, if an attempt is made and fails, don’t even want to imagine what happens next.

  70. 70.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    @TenguPhule: We got THIS close to buying a Volvo this week. Now we’re worried that by the time we could buy it (1-2 weeks) it’ll cost 20% more. Sigh.

  71. 71.

    Neldob

    June 25, 2018 at 8:54 pm

    Mitch McConnell was so polite and respectful when he stopped Obama from nominating a supreme court judge. And the Bundy’s were so civil when they drove law enforcement from the public land they owed money for grazing cattle on. Yes, Trumpster’s are going to get violent, already have.

  72. 72.

    Trentrunner

    June 25, 2018 at 8:54 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Schumer, on the floor of the Senate:

    I strongly disagree with those who advocate harassing folks if they don’t agree with you,” the New York senator said during a floor speech. “If you disagree with a politician, organize your fellow citizens to action and vote them out of office. But no one should call for the harassment of political opponents. That’s not right. That’s not American.”

    Pelosi, on Twitter:

    In the crucial months ahead, we must strive to make America beautiful again. Trump’s daily lack of civility has provoked responses that are predictable but unacceptable. As we go forward, we must conduct elections in a way that achieves unity from sea to shining sea.

    Cory Booker:

    If I saw an administrator out and about, there’s nothing wrong with confronting that person. But not to lead with love and to do it in a way that is more reflective of the values we are trying to reject in our country is not acceptable to me,” Booker said on MSNBC.

    “I worry in our country right now that we’re descending to a hatred of American hating American. That is not going to solve our problems,” he added.

    I brought receipts, as you can see. So, you know, go fuck yourself.

  73. 73.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:55 pm

    @Mnemosyne: This is why I sometimes favor someone cold-cocking him right in the face after he says something disrespectful. Bonus points if it’s a woman or minority, and major extra credit if it’s Nancy Pelosi.

    I bet “charged with minor assault” for decking Trump would be a pretty good electoral booster in a big chunk of the country, and Trump would have to deal with being beaten by a woman.

  74. 74.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: Which Volvo?

  75. 75.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    I was going to trade in the minivan for the 2019 hybrid next year.

    Because of the steel tariffs, that’s not going to happen.

    Fuck Trump and every last one of his voters. Every. Single. One.

  76. 76.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    Beltway medias, need to stop using the Obamas to mask the unwillingness to stand up & call out political friends & family and colleagues. “going high” don’t mean “lay back and take it and don’t resist”

    The problem is beltway media sees themselves in SHS…& are scared it could happen to them too.

  77. 77.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 8:57 pm

    @gene108:

    Republicans have been threatening political violence via “2nd Amendment remedies “

    Kkkeyboard kkkomandos all.
    Sure, there’s the odd crazy who goes to Vegas and begins shooting randomly. Dunno’ ultimately, how we prevent that without the political will.
    But the loud obnoxious klowns on the intartoobz? Think of them as middle school boys – all talk to shock people, but kkkowards at heart

  78. 78.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @efgoldman: Fuckem

  79. 79.

    MisterForkbeard

    June 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Trentrunner: Eh. Schumer’s isn’t great. Pelosi and Booker’s are basically fine. Neither are pissed at the Red Hen so much as annoyed with Waters and while I don’t agree that’s not exactly a hanging offense.

    The problem with all of them is conflating the mild behavior of refusing to associate with supporters of racism, child abuse, and sexual abusers…. with “harassing political opponents”. And I can see why – having to make that distinction with every mealy-mouthed pundit is a goddamn nightmare at the leadership level.

  80. 80.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    June 25, 2018 at 8:58 pm

    @Mary G:

    By all means go ahead and pee

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    If I saw an administrator out and about, there’s nothing wrong with confronting that person.

    Yeah, what a fucking squish, telling people to never confront Trump officials. Oh wait …

    Pelosi and Schumer are forced to call for civility, because they’re each the Minority Leader of their caucus. Get back to me when Ted Lieu starts backing down.

  82. 82.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 9:00 pm

    @Mnemosyne: The Nazis didn’t chicken out. They marched. And were embarassed when the Skokie residents didn’t run away, didn’t confront them, just came out on their stoops and turned their backs.

    It’s like the Westover Baptist asswipes. They stopped coming to New England a couple years ago, because the protesters always outnumbered them, and because the local media called them “A Hate Group”. Not the image they need to garner donations from the gullible.

  83. 83.

    Mike J

    June 25, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    but no matter how much I hate him and how much I wish all kinds of bad shit to happen to him, I cannot in any way countenance murder.

    I think it would be ineffective politically.

  84. 84.

    JMG

    June 25, 2018 at 9:01 pm

    On CNN just now, David Gergen, still employed for some reason despite having had his last thought in 1987, just said that “the civil rights and anti-Vietnam War movements of the ’60s” were “far more civil” than the anti-Trump people now. He was alive then, right? I was in the fucking antiwar movement and it wasn’t civil at all. Or so the Weathermen believed, anyway.
    PS: I wasn’t a Weatherman. I was on the sensible sex, drugs and rock and roll side of that era.

  85. 85.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:02 pm

    @MegKinnardAP
    4h4 hours ago
    More
    Sitting next to @Acosta is the … ahem … “best” seat in the house. Frequent chanting of “@CNN sucks,” “Go home, Jim,” after which many have then asked for selfies and autographs. ?‍♀️? #SCGov

    @MegKinnardAP
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    Here’s some video of a woman berating @Acosta. This went on for several minutes as many in the crowd cheered her on. As someone who’s covered my share of Trump rallies, it feels like 2016 all over again.

    @MegKinnardAP
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    The woman in the video told me she’s OK with the @AP, but “@Acosta has been cursed.” #SCgov

    @MegKinnardAP
    Follow Follow @MegKinnardAP
    More
    One last clip of the exchange as she accuses @Acosta of not respecting the United States. When he replies that he does, she says, “No! You do not respect it!” #SCGov

    https://twitter.com/MegKinnardAP/status/1011358598834900992

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 25, 2018 at 9:03 pm

    @JMG: So he doesn’t remember all the pipe bombs?

  87. 87.

    Honus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:04 pm

    @Mnemosyne:no, he wants to do both.

  88. 88.

    JMG

    June 25, 2018 at 9:08 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: He is, and always has been, the biggest chump on cable TV save for Wolf Blitzer. The idea that more than one President employed this guy and listened to him fills me with terror.

  89. 89.

    Mary G

    June 25, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I so wanted HRC to just turn around and slap his face when he was stalking her around the debate stage.

  90. 90.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 9:10 pm

    The rw gop knows how to play the worthless, mostly white media minions because they know these scumballs basically agree with them and would cover for them.

  91. 91.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:11 pm

    @maggieNYT
    15m15 minutes ago
    More
    Protestors of the administration’s immigration policies gathered outside Stephen Miller’s elite apartment complex in Washington DC tonight.

  92. 92.

    Mandalay

    June 25, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    Frau Haberman is now being very careful not to show any support or repudiation of public dissent:

    Protestors [sic] of the administration’s immigration policies gathered outside Stephen Miller’s elite apartment complex in Washington DC tonight.

    I suspect she ran that one sentence tweet through a team of FTNYT lawyers before posting it.

    Thread that needle Maggie!

  93. 93.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Gimpy, grumpy and slow to the March!

  94. 94.

    Ohio Mom

    June 25, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    @Mary G: Did you tead “What Happened”? HRC and her debate coaches had anticipated Trump might pull something like that. She is still wondering if the approach they chose was the best one — the second guessing goes on and on.

  95. 95.

    Tokyokie

    June 25, 2018 at 9:13 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I still maintain that Hillary would have won the presidency by doing one simple thing: pouring a glass of water on Donnie’s head during the final debate. He would sputter empty threats and demonstrate his powerlessness, a woman would have gotten the best of him in a physical confrontation, and she would have revealed him as the chrome-dome phony that he is.

  96. 96.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    @Trentrunner:
    It occurs to me that the righteous anger of the people is the bad cop in this scenario and the Democratic leaders are playing the good cop. It may well be that the Republican party is too recalcitrant for this to work on it, as far as any direct political goal is concerned. But that recalcitrance will not escape anyone who’s paying attention. And I think the strategy here is to heighten the contradiction between Republican callousness towards the interests of the ordinary American and Republican thin skin at even the most symbolic of pushback.

  97. 97.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 25, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    @Mary G: She should have confronted him without laying a finger on him. That would have been more effective.

    Back off you creep you are in my personal space.

  98. 98.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    June 25, 2018 at 9:15 pm

    No one is calling for political violence or anything like that. But you take away people’s ability to vent their frustrations by yelling “Fuck you fascist” or doing something minor like telling some scumbag to get the fuck out of your restaurant, well, then you’re actually heading down a dangerous road.

    I’ve thought and said this over the past year. The GOP is going down a dangerous path and they will regret it.

  99. 99.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Which leaves only Australia as our last remaining major trade partner we haven’t kicked off economic hostilities with.

    Give Putin time. He’ll think of something.

  100. 100.

    MomSense

    June 25, 2018 at 9:21 pm

    The Republicans are torturing thousands of babies, toddlers, and young children at the border. They are taking healthcare away from millions of us which will cause terrible suffering and death. Are these actions civil?

  101. 101.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 25, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    If things do get violent, its not the T supporters that will pay the price. You can take that to the bank. So be careful what you wish for.
    Its always the poor and the minorities that pay the price. So its Nolan’s privilege speaking when he wishes/speculates about violence.

  102. 102.

    jl

    June 25, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @JMG: For god’s sake. The anti-Vietnam war movement was more civil?
    As a pre-old white man, it is a little scary to see all of these old out-of-it, apparently senile, white geezers on TV. Will that happen to me? How soon? Can I get paid good money like Gergen to go on the TV and babble sad demented bullshit?

    Man, that is old out-of-it geezer ‘in my day’ BS that would do Grandpa Simpson proud.
    ” Why in my day, protesters came out in their Sunday clothes, stood in line and waited their turn,. said ‘Yes Sir’ and Thank you ma’am’ You betcha. We didn’t have these dang rude whipersnappers out in the streets like we do these days. ”

    Corporate news media have become a boring cheapo reality show. Gergen can say idiotic shit like that he’ll be back on the TV spouting crap, and advertised as some wise person worth listening to. And they wonder why they lose audience every year.

    Edit: I wonder how many of these old dudes piss themselves. Really can’t tell when they are sitting behind a table.

  103. 103.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    This old white dude doesn’t as often as he probably should but a lot of my getting out is at work and I’ve always preferred not to discuss politics at work. If asked, and I occasionally am, I will respond appropriately.
    What it really boils down to is my job is decent, the pay and the hours work for me, and my boss is a good guy. He took us all out for lunch, with his mom, this is her 91st birthday. When I started there 5 yrs ago, she was still keeping the books. As bosses go I wish that I had been a bit more like him. I tried and I think I was close but it’s good working for and with good people.

  104. 104.

    Dorothy Winsor

    June 25, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    When I load the site, I see that this post has 100 comments. But when I click on the comments, it shows me only 58, no matter how much I refresh it.

    OTOH, it’s remembering my nym etc.

    ETA: But once I posted this comment, it showed me all of the other comments.

  105. 105.

    Mandalay

    June 25, 2018 at 9:24 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    Schumer, Booker, and Pelosi have swatted down Maxine Waters and pleaded for “civility.”

    They are all doing that to cover their own asses, not because they believe what they say.

    If some crazy does physical harm to a Republican in a protest-gone-bad they want to be able to inoculate themselves against charges that they allowed hatred to foment due to their inaction.

  106. 106.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 9:25 pm

    @Ohio Mom:
    Yes it does, and at this point someone needs to draw the obvious conclusion — that the response Hillary and her team decided on should have been more forceful — and move on with that wisdom.

  107. 107.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    June 25, 2018 at 9:25 pm

    @JMG: Sensible sex sounds so boring. What the hell kind of revolutionary program is that?

  108. 108.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:27 pm

    @SarahLerner
    Maxine Waters understands the urgency of this political moment. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer do not.

    3:37 PM – Jun 25, 2018

    I think this is true. Maxine unlike Nancy or Chuck isn’t trying to hold on to a leadership position if November goes as well as Dems want it to.

    As for Booker…Corey should tread very lightly. But I know he has higher aspirations, but he it literally one ginned up outrage scandal away from losing the favor of the type of folk who can’t wait for him to fail. And I’d bet folks like Maxine Waters and the CBC would still have his back.

  109. 109.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 9:28 pm

    Chauffeuring 91-year-old landlady around for some necessary errands, beginning at 8:30 a.m., plus follow up, finished at 2:30 p.m.. Auto dealer shop (which is nowhere near the actual dealership) for a recall fix, swapping out the cable box at cable company office (which was so packed there was a line out the door), buying a replacement drainpipe assembly to replace a leaking one in her utility sink. Setting up cable box and programming the new remote, then installing new drainpipe done. That last, of course, jiggled stuff around enough to begin a different leak which also had to be dealt with).

    I deserve a cookie.

  110. 110.

    WereBear

    June 25, 2018 at 9:28 pm

    All this pearl clutching and tsking pisses me off. If people in charge of all kinds of things had taken their responsibilities seriously in 2016, we wouldn’t be having to deal with this all by ourselves.

  111. 111.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 9:30 pm

    @Dorothy Winsor:
    FYWP is messing with our heads just for the hell of it.

  112. 112.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    June 25, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    @JMG: That doddering old fool Gergen probably thinks we call it The Civil War because the Union and and the Confederates sent strongly worded letters to one another.

  113. 113.

    different-church-lady

    June 25, 2018 at 9:31 pm

    I’m so old I can remember when we were all “snowflakes”

  114. 114.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:32 pm

    @MaddowBlog
    6m6 minutes ago
    More
    Exclusive: A foster facility worker tries to get information from a young migrant girl about who she is, how she got to the U.S., and where her mother is.
    https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1011420294257442816

  115. 115.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 9:32 pm

    ALAIN FIX THE FUCKING NYMS

    please

  116. 116.

    raven

    June 25, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    @JMG: I’m on alert for that Tommy The Traveller shit to go down.

  117. 117.

    Peale

    June 25, 2018 at 9:33 pm

    @JMG: it’s like he’s never covered a Trump rally before in his life.

    God, it’s a full court press of the press pushing back on behalf of Trump, again!

  118. 118.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @lamh36:

    @NeptuneDMB
    13m13 minutes ago
    More
    Holy Shit!! #Maddow playing audio of gov’t lawyer telling kids in concentration camps “Do not talk to the press, if you do I don’t know if we’ll be able to keep you safe”. WTF? These are mob tactics, but we’re supposed to be civil about it? Fuck that, Auntie Maxine is right!

  119. 119.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    The blog is broken.

  120. 120.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 9:34 pm

    @different-church-lady: Yup. It’s always projection with these cowardly bullies.

  121. 121.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 9:35 pm

    @Amir Khalid

    FYWP, the Neal Cassady of blogging platforms.

    ;)

  122. 122.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    @jl:
    How many of these old white geezers were young when those white people screamed obscenities at those little girls integrating a school?

    They haven’t forgotten. They just prefer to imagine it was different.

  123. 123.

    jl

    June 25, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    Border patrol doing BS indiscriminate mass questioning in New England. What chump is going to be civil now?
    What the hell is this stuff about? Authoritarians are trying things out, to see how far they can go.
    Maybe Pelosi and Schumer should tut tut about this. Watch the video

    Border Patrol Agents Are Stopping People On New England Highways To Check Their Citizenship
    By Ray Sanchez, CNN
    June 25, 2018 at 9:19 am
    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2018/06/25/new-england-border-patrol-ice-citizenship-maine-new-hampshire-highways/#.WzGSmmA4HK8.twitter

    Edit: I’ll be calling my Congresscritters about this and everyone who sees this should do the same. Seriously.

  124. 124.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 9:36 pm

    The borked blog should be the rotating thingy on the top.

  125. 125.

    Ilefttxwhenannlost

    June 25, 2018 at 9:38 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: during the primary and the debates, I’d watch Jeb slumping under the bully bs…all he had to do was snatch that ridicous ferret off his head…don’t even care if its minimally attached…he was right there and surprise element and all

  126. 126.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:39 pm

    @Dorothy Winsor: Same here.

  127. 127.

    jl

    June 25, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    @Platonailedit: It’s a self-service blog!

    BJ has added crafts and hobbies to its very long list of expertise. It’s a full time hobby to make it work (I guess on the fixer and user end both)

  128. 128.

    mad citizen

    June 25, 2018 at 9:40 pm

    @Chip Daniels: Cracker, “Torches And Pitchforks”

    We will fight you from the mountains
    And we will fight you in the streets
    And we will fight you in the valleys
    You cannot take what isn’t yours

    And we will fight your goons and lawyers
    And we will fight your Pinkertons
    And we will fight your bought off Congressmen
    You cannot take what isn’t yours

  129. 129.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 9:42 pm

    @Ilefttxwhenannlost

    But- but- Brink’s trucks!

    :)

  130. 130.

    gene108

    June 25, 2018 at 9:42 pm

    @Trentrunner:

    For better or worse Democratic voters do not respond well to fear and anger.

    People, who frequent liberal blogs, are angrier than the person, who sometimes watched CNN or listens to NPR are. We are not representative of where many Democratic voters are. They have other things on their minds.

    The last two Democratic Presidents to take the White House were all about hope and empathy, ie “I feel your pain”.

    What John posted in the OP is a good way to look at things, but it cannot be the be-all and end-all of where we are going with opposing Trump. Responsible politicians, not Trump or modern Republicans, need to find some sort of balance between telling Trump & Co to fuck off and making sure our erratic, infrequent voting base does not get turned off by “incivility”, because their default mode is politics is an ugly corrupt business, so why bother.

  131. 131.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 9:42 pm

    On a day in which many are calling for civility, the President of the United States wonders if a sitting senator was drunk when he recently spoke about the Russia probe.

    pic.twitter.com/cfuyxNeWQd— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 25, 2018

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @JGabriel:
    Let’s be honest, a good leader has to have decent policy positions and be competent at the job assigned. Schumer is OK in that regard. But this is also a special time in DC. We have the, by about a thousand country miles, worst person at the top job. And that means that any opposition leader has to have far more than the average needs for that job. Schumer ain’t got it. He seems to want it to be a nice gig, a relaxing way to spend the day at a good salary. His gig is currently not anything like that, in any way, shape or form.
    That piece that John quoted is it exactly. The people at the top want civility, they want their day to go easy, they want their nights to be either calm or to be a party. And it’s not just the people on the right who think that way. It’s easy to be sheltered if you have some level of power and above a reasonable level of money. To be elected in this country to the senate or to the presidency you need more than that. You have to be one of the club, or at least get your foot in the door.
    Take our congress, it’s almost silly forced civility, among a lot of people who have no concept otherwise of what the word means. And they think that is what makes the world go round. And of course it isn’t. Schumer is one of those guys. His policy positions are OK, it’s his political upbringing that is holding him back at this juncture.

  133. 133.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @JMG: David Gergen, still employed for some reason despite having had his last thought in 1987, just said that “the civil rights and anti-Vietnam War movements of the ’60s” were “far more civil” than the anti-Trump people now.

    Kevin M. Kruse @ KevinMKruse
    “HEY HEY LBJ, WE HOPE YOU LIKE THIS CREME BRULEE”

    Ivy League historian snark

  134. 134.

    raven

    June 25, 2018 at 9:43 pm

    @mad citizen: They played Athfest this weekend.

  135. 135.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 25, 2018 at 9:44 pm

    @NotMax: You deserve more than a cookie. I am sure she appreciates all that you do.

  136. 136.

    Mai naem mobile

    June 25, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    Fucking Steve Konacki appeared to spend all of MTP today talking about incivility. This fucker who does election coverage couldn’t spend 5 minutes on the redistricting decision from the USSC today which was a whole lot more important than incivility and in his wheelhouse.

  137. 137.

    raven

    June 25, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: fuck lbj

  138. 138.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    June 25, 2018 at 9:45 pm

    @raven: I want someone to bring back Jerry Rubin and Pigasus.

  139. 139.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    June 25, 2018 at 9:46 pm

    @jl:

    Will that happen to me?

    Yes.

    How soon?

    It’s already happened.

    Can I get paid good money like Gergen to go on the TV and babble sad demented bullshit?

    No.

  140. 140.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 25, 2018 at 9:46 pm

    Statements of the form “no one is calling for X” always put me a little on edge because for any X you can possibly imagine, no matter how horrifying, someone is calling for it.

    But that’s my problem; I know what they mean.

  141. 141.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 9:47 pm

    @mad citizen: I’ve posted this here before. If we need to rely on an Etonian hipster punk, then we need to rely on an Etonian hipster punk.

  142. 142.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    @neeratanden
    9m9 minutes ago
    More Neera Tanden ? Retweeted Neera Tanden ?
    Fact that Cruz is desperate for a bipartisan bill on family deportation tells you @BetoORourke is hot on his heels.
    https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1011423308829675521

  143. 143.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    June 25, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    It is telling that many of those who make their living in the political industrial complex, whether Democrat or Republican or Washington Post editorial page, find the idea of socially shunning people because of their politics to be abhorrent. Their shudders are a symptom of the fact that DC is indeed a swamp—a friendly swamp, where all the gators and slugs and mudfish meet up at the end of the day for cocktails, because to them, politics is a job.

    Meh this take is way too tied to politicians, our political system and $, for my taste. That wouldn’t explain why I see these same calls for Civility!!1! from regular-ass citizens all the time, even on the Left. Hell, I got kicked out of an Indivisible FB group just for suggesting we start documenting businesses that have problematic shit on their walls so people from marginalized groups can avoid those businesses. The pearl-clutching calls for Civility that I got in response were fucking gross. Even in groups solely devoted to anti-racism work I’ve seen this type of pandering to the Gods of Civility. This isn’t an elite/politician thing, it’s a human thing.

  144. 144.

    Dorothy Winsor

    June 25, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Firefox will at least show me comments if I refresh.

    No matter which browser I use, the site invites me to edit the most recent comment, Matt McIrvin’s in this case.

  145. 145.

    Alain the site fixer

    June 25, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    The CDN should be propagating for the next 12 hours or so and thus some wacky, temporary quirks on the path to speedy and better.

  146. 146.

    Ilefttxwhenannlost

    June 25, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    @Mary G: or at least turn around and tell him to back the fuck off…or make a joke about how he was violating the restraining order

  147. 147.

    r€nato

    June 25, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    Conservatives: Michelle Obama is a gorilla. Sasha and Malia Obama are apes. Barack Obama isn’t an American. Obama and Hillary should be executed. Obama is a Muslim. Hillary is a cunt. The 2nd Amendment gives us the right to shoot government bureaucrats and agents. Muslims should be rounded up and thrown into camps. Illegal immigrants should be shot dead. Fuck your feelings.

    Also conservatives: How dare someone refuse to serve food to Sarah Sanders. How terribly uncivil.

  148. 148.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    June 25, 2018 at 9:49 pm

    @lamh36:

    One last clip of the exchange as she accuses @Acosta of not respecting the United States. When he replies that he does, she says, “No! You do not respect it!” #SCGov

    So, questioning President Trump means you don’t “respect the United States”? Duck this fascist moron.

  149. 149.

    zhena gogolia

    June 25, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    @efgoldman:

    He left a message at one point today that he was working on the mobile site first and then would fix the desktop site. So I think we have to wait.

  150. 150.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    If you have ever seen or heard the meme“I want to see receipts” (RIP Whitney Houston)…here is Rep Maxine Waters, doing EXACTLY that on Chris Hayes show tonight!

    @PoliticusSarah
    22m22 minutes ago
    More
    Rep. Maxine Waters Goes On Live TV And Reads Actual Quotes Of Trump Inciting Violence http://dlvr.it/QYW9cc

    Shoreter Maxine Waters: I have the receipts

  151. 151.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 9:51 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Yes! I was getting ready to email you. Is there a route map yet?

  152. 152.

    zhena gogolia

    June 25, 2018 at 9:53 pm

    @Ilefttxwhenannlost:

    He would have been greeted with flowers.

  153. 153.

    Peale

    June 25, 2018 at 9:53 pm

    @gene108: I do have to agree with that somewhat. There has in the past appeared to be a large segment of the voting population at large that will just tune out if it’s too nasty and just sit it out. I think that pool is smaller than before, but it does appear to afflict Dems more than Reps. Hence the ability for the GOP to win with even the nastiest and angriest of ads.

    On the other hand, I think times may have changed somewhat. David Axelrod speaks like he’s trying to imagine restarting Obama’s conciliatory campaign…let’s be civil…let’s work on these issues…all together. In reality, they don’t have to do that this time. There aren’t any Dems who’ve signed onto the anti immigrant movement this time. There isn’t anyone to protect, like there was in 2008 and a lot of the party had backed unpopular Bush policies.

  154. 154.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 9:54 pm

    @Alain the site fixer: Aha! I wondered why things went weird after I came back from loading the dishes.

    Time to put the rising-fifth-grader to bed.

  155. 155.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 9:55 pm

    @MichaelAvenatti
    43m43 minutes ago
    More
    I applaud the bravery of my whistleblower client, who showed great courage in coming forward and providing the video and images we are showing on @maddow tonight. She is a true patriot.

  156. 156.

    Mandalay

    June 25, 2018 at 9:56 pm

    @FlyingToaster: Here’s a heartwarming and instructive story about protesting Westboro Baptist Church and protest back in 2010:

    About a half-dozen members of the Westboro Baptist Church traveled to McAlester, Oklahoma Saturday to picket Army Sgt. Jason James McCluskey’s funeral.

    Following the protest, the group returned to their minivan to find that the front and rear tires on the passenger side of the vehicle had been slashed.

    “To make matters worse, as their minivan slowly hobbled away on two flat tires, with a McAlester police car following behind, the protesters were unable to find anyone in town who would repair their vehicle, according to police,” Tulsa World reported.

    In the end, the AAA motor club was called and the minivan was eventually loaded on to a flatbed truck.

    Assistant Police Chief Darrell Miller told Tulsa World‘s Manny Gamallo that the vehicle was taken to Walmart for replacement tires.

    But even during the protest, things did not go smoothly for the anti-gay church members. By Miller’s estimation, the church members faced a counter protest of nearly 1000 people.

    Thank goodness Booker, Schumer and Pelosi weren’t there to give the thousand protesters a finger wagging for their lack of civility towards the fag haters.

  157. 157.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 9:58 pm

    @FlyingToaster:

    The Nazis didn’t chicken out. They marched. And were embarassed when the Skokie residents didn’t run away, didn’t confront them, just came out on their stoops and turned their backs.

    You remember incorrectly. The Nazis chickened out of marching in Skokie and marched in Chicago instead. The turning backs thing may have happened in Chicago, but there was no march in Skokie.

    And for people who don’t remember why the Nazis wanted to march in Skokie specifically, it was because at the time it had the largest proportion of Holocaust survivors living there in the entire US.

  158. 158.

    Brachiator

    June 25, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:
    RE: You might be right – this is already happening, as some of the tariffs are taking effects and just completely screwing some voters. Most of them are Trump voters, though – so far, they’ve been willing to forgive them. They’re just surprised the leopard is eating their face, is all.

    I’ve been overhearing some conversations. These dopes still don’t accept that Trump’s an incompetent con man. They keep hoping that he will perform some magic trick and rescue them.

  159. 159.

    TS (the original)

    June 25, 2018 at 9:59 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I bow to no one in my utter detestation of Donald Trump, but no matter how much I hate him and how much I wish all kinds of bad shit to happen to him, I cannot in any way countenance murder.

    It would make him the American Hero – main reason not to contenance murder

  160. 160.

    Bill Arnold

    June 25, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    No one is calling for political violence or anything like that.

    Been said in this thread already, but … this is entirely not true. Scan the darker parts of the U.S. right wing internet and you’ll find plenty of eliminationist rhetoric, for at least the past decade, and probably longer..
    Regardless, any violence by the U.S. “left” (such as it is, and including anarchists etc) will be used as grounds to weaken civil rights (or potentially gut them) and further attack the powerless and the right’s political enemies. (Fascist playbook.) Since violence is likely to happen (e.g. in a large population there is always a subset of size > 0 that rejects non-violence and takes action) we need to be ready and organized to fight back. Preferably, aggressively in the courts and press and public opinion and voting booth.

  161. 161.

    zhena gogolia

    June 25, 2018 at 10:00 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    You guys are keeping me laughing. I know it’s not funny any more, but still.

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 10:03 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    I don’t see one. The site is rather short on info. A couple of days ago it said the starting point was Pershing Sq. Now it says City Hall.
    Here is the website. Families Belong Together.

  163. 163.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    June 25, 2018 at 10:04 pm

    @gene108:

    Responsible politicians, not Trump or modern Republicans, need to find some sort of balance between telling Trump & Co to fuck off and making sure our erratic, infrequent voting base does not get turned off by “incivility”, because their default mode is politics is an ugly corrupt business, so why bother.

    On the one hand I understand what you’re saying. On the other, they’re part of the problem if they’re going to let “incivility” get in the way of stopping a scary authoritarian regime from emerging in the United States, with a nuclear arsenal. They need to wake up and realize that the US they knew is dying.

  164. 164.

    lamh36

    June 25, 2018 at 10:05 pm

    @thehill
    Follow Follow @thehill
    More
    Intern for Dem senator suspended after shouting “f–k you” at Trump http://hill.cm/lCaHu0h

  165. 165.

    J R in WV

    June 25, 2018 at 10:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    OMFG. I didn’t realize that the Post actually used the following example in their execrable editorial:

    How hard is it to imagine, for example, people who strongly believe that abortion is murder deciding that judges or other officials who protect abortion rights should not be able to live peaceably with their families?

    Nobody has to “imagine” that, chief, because it’s already fucking happening and has been for the past 30 years.

    What fucking turnip truck did the WaPo fall off of that they didn’t know this was already happening?

    Now wait a minute… what was the name of that Doctor who was an usher at his church? The Doctor who was SHOT AT HIS CHURCH ON SUNDAY – THAT DOCTOR?!?!?!

    On May 31, 2009, Dr. George Tiller was shot in his church. Not even 10 years ago, and the Washington Post already forgot about it!!

    Not that Democrats Republicans are violent, oh no! Not at all…!! They would never hurt someone, or steal a child from their family, oh no, never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 10:08 pm

    (at) David Gergen

    Nicole Hemmer @ pastpunditry
    You got heckled at a restaurant?

    Dean Rusk appeared in San Francisco and was greeted by 400 people chanting “Dean Rusk: Wanted for Murder.”

    Then they hurled “rocks, eggs, and blood-filled balloons” at the hotel where he was speaking.

    and when do we get to start talking about the “civility” of Bull Connor and Old Man Daley and other proto-trumpers?

  167. 167.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    June 25, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    @lamh36:
    Which senator. I want a name, so I can give this moron a piece of my mind

  168. 168.

    khead

    June 25, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    Not sure if anyone else brought this up, but I’m old enough to remember “Chris the Baker” refusing Joe Biden.

    Also, looks like “Chris the Baker” had to find a new line of work.

  169. 169.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 10:10 pm

    @lamh36: somebody be sure and post the inevitable go fund me if this kid needs help with tuition or god help us legal fees

  170. 170.

    A Ghost To Most

    June 25, 2018 at 10:11 pm

    “When they go low, we go high”.

    Head shots it is, then.

  171. 171.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 10:12 pm

    IIRR, it was Josh Marshall who said bw media is wired for gop. Every atrocity committed by gop will always be reported by these fifth columnists from a gop reference point only.

  172. 172.

    MomSense

    June 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Three years after my son was born, the planned parenthood where I found out I was pregnant and received my early pre natal care suffered a mass shooting. People were killed. They forgot about that, too.

  173. 173.

    Chip Daniels

    June 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    Scan the darker parts of the U.S. right wing internet and you’ll find plenty of eliminationist rhetoric,

    Or any Tea Party protest.

    “We came unarmed. This time”
    “Soapbox, Ballot Box, Ammo Box.”

  174. 174.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm

    @khead: Amy Fried @ ASFried
    In 2012, a baker refused to serve Joe Biden. VP candidate Paul Ryan brought him to a rally.

    ETA”

    Chris Hayes
    I don’t even remember this incident because…no one cared? No one thought it spelled the death of civil society (and they were right)

  175. 175.

    B.B.A.

    June 25, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, see, Rusk was a Democrat so all that was fine.

  176. 176.

    Brachiator

    June 25, 2018 at 10:16 pm

    @gene108:
    RE: For better or worse Democratic voters do not respond well to fear and anger.

    Citizens need to forget politics and get angry.

    We have a thug president who believes that he can threaten and browbeat anyone at any time, surrounded by staff who will defend him, excuse him, or deny that he did anything wrong.

    But everyone else is supposed to be civil?

    I don’t think so.

  177. 177.

    khead

    June 25, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I now see LG&M posted about it. I need to step up my game. Less time at work and more on the Internets.

  178. 178.

    J R in WV

    June 25, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    We’re not far behind you here in Los Angeles. Even old white dudes hate Trump and say so in public, repeatedly.

    I was in the locker room at the YMCA in town, and heard two older gents talking. One said something to the effect that Trump has stepped over a line, and his buddy said “We’ve got a guy who divorced two women, may have assaulted others and paid for his mistresses’ abortions, and he is going to speak at National Prayer Day… what’s going on with that?”

    That impressed me somehow, it wasn’t what I expected at all.

  179. 179.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:22 pm

    @Brachiator:

    IMO, Democrats are willing to turn out if they’re angry about something specific, like the Hurricane Katrina (lack of) response. What they don’t do is turn out for inchoate, seething anger like Republicans do. Angry Democrats need an actual target for their anger, the more specific, the better.

    Democrats and independents are really, really angry at Trump and the Republicans right now over family separation.

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:24 pm

    @Ruckus:

    It looks like the Red Line should take me straight to the Civic Center, and it’s a short walk from there.

    Any other LA jackals planning to go downtown for the march? We are Team Gimpy and Slow, but we’re stubborn as hell. ?

  181. 181.

    Mandalay

    June 25, 2018 at 10:24 pm

    On CNN just now a Republican pundit was calling on the public to remain civil. But not a word from her about wanting Trump to become civil.

  182. 182.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 10:28 pm

    NBC News @ NBCNews
    A 20-foot-tall inflatable orange baby with the face of President Trump could float over Britain’s parliament next month, one of many acts of protest planned to coincide with his first visit to the U.K. since taking office.

    only one? I’ve got a ten pound note somewhere from my last trip, I could send it to Princess Megan or Eddie Izzard or JK Rowling…. fuck it, JK can order up a flock of floating babies with the change in her couch

  183. 183.

    J R in WV

    June 25, 2018 at 10:30 pm

    @NotMax:

    Chauffeuring 91-year-old landlady around for some necessary errands

    You are a good egg, NotMax. Thanks for helping the old lady out. It would have cost her hundreds of dollars to get that sink fixed!!

    Thanks! Have a cookie!!

  184. 184.

    Jeffro

    June 25, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Democrats are willing to turn out if they’re angry about something specific, like the Hurricane Katrina (lack of) response. What they don’t do is turn out for inchoate, seething anger like Republicans do. Angry Democrats need an actual target for their anger, the more specific, the better.

    True, but even then, Dems get their anger issue(s) resolved one way or another and move on. We’re pragmatic, we’re solution- (and fact-) oriented.

    The fucking Republicans are just one grievance after another, one petty outrage plucked from somewhere, anywhere in the US at all (and if there’s not one to be had that day, Fox News will just make shit up). They HAVE to stay outraged, to keep fueling that hate, that loss or privilege, or else they’d have to actually look it square in the eye and deal with it.

    As long as there is one mouthy far left professor SOMEWHERE…some college kids who want to take PC to the next level SOMEWHERE…some gay person dressed outlandishly for the Repubs’ taste SOMEWHERE…one person crossing our border illegally SOMEWHERE…it will give the Trumpublicans all the excuse their feeble minds need to tee off, forget the rule of law and the Constitution, and talk endlessly about how persecuted they are.

    And unfortunately, our current media will not only listen to them, but examine them endlessly.

    Meanwhile, a majority of the country (including the popular vote winner and her 65M voters) wait for just. one. interview.

  185. 185.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 10:33 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    It’s team Gimpy, Grumpy and Slow. Guess which parts I play.

    Yeah it’s Gold – Red/Purple for me. You going to pre register or just show up? Personally I’m for just showing up. I’ve gone to two marches this year, in the same area and haven’t signed up with anyone. Seems like BS to me.
    ETA and what time? I’m having to work the entire week for a while, that’s FIVE DAYS IN A ROW. Oh the things I put up with to eat regular.

  186. 186.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 10:35 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Sorry, I misrememberd that mess. I was only 16 and on my first job, IIRC.

    My dad had lived in Skokie (GI bill student at NW, line mechanic at Midway), and his old landlord was one of the people who went down to Chicago to protest.

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 25, 2018 at 10:35 pm

    Fix the blog.

  188. 188.

    George

    June 25, 2018 at 10:36 pm

    One thing that needs to stop is blaming the “government,” or the “American government.”

    I work for the federal government. The vast majority of government workers wield little to no power and likely despise the Trump administration just as much as anyone who posts on these threads.

    Blaming the “government” for our problems adopts a long-standing rightwing meme, albeit for liberal reasons.

    The government itself is not to blame. The Trump administration and the toadies that have been placed in power are the ones to blame. If anything, they have hijacked the typically benign machinery of governance to serve the will of the few and the powerful.

  189. 189.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:37 pm

    Question for the BJ legal eagles. Trump just tweeted this (my emphasis):

    Why is Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), perhaps in a near drunken state, claiming he has information that only he and Bob Mueller, the leader of the 13 Angry Democrats on a Witch Hunt, knows? Isn’t this highly illegal. Is it being investigated?

    Accusing a member of the opposition of being drunk with (AFAIK) no evidence, only assertion. Is this slander/libel? Would Warner have standing to sue for defamation? We keep talking about the line in the sand. Seems to me Trump has crossed it and then some with this tweet.

  190. 190.

    J R in WV

    June 25, 2018 at 10:40 pm

    @khead:

    Not sure if anyone else brought this up, but I’m old enough to remember “Chris the Baker” refusing Joe Biden.

    Also, looks like “Chris the Baker” had to find a new line of work.

    That’s so sweet – dump on Uncle Joe and lose your pathetic red-neck business!!! What a maroon!! Maybe he’s working as a greeter at Walmart now? The 2 am shift?

  191. 191.

    Mandalay

    June 25, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @Mandalay: …and the excuse she gave for not calling on Trump to be civil is “voters knew what they were getting when they elected Trump”.

    Soooooo…..her view is that the public must be civil, but Trump gets a free pass.

  192. 192.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:41 pm

    @Ruckus:

    If it starts at 11 am, maybe 10:30? I don’t want to get there too early since neither one of us does well in the heat.

    I didn’t sign up, either. I guess the one advantage is that they email updates to you, but it’s mostly so they can put you on their mailing list.

  193. 193.

    B.B.A.

    June 25, 2018 at 10:42 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m thinking back to Schneiderman… does Warner have a history of alcoholism? is this kompromat?

  194. 194.

    khead

    June 25, 2018 at 10:42 pm

    Civility is for chumps.

  195. 195.

    ? ?? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ? ?

    June 25, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Donaldo doesn’t understand when someone is joking. Honestly, this line was crossed already when he called for Hillary to be imprisoned.

  196. 196.

    James E Powell

    June 25, 2018 at 10:44 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Any other LA jackals planning to go downtown for the march?

    I will be there. Should we bring green balloons?

    Anyone want to meet for breakfast?

  197. 197.

    Uncle Ebeneezer

    June 25, 2018 at 10:45 pm

    @Mnemosyne: There’s gonna be one at PCC in Pasadena. I think we are gonna go there since it’s later and I have to work till 12:30. But have fun and be safe. Take pics, etc.

  198. 198.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    @B.B.A.: Jeez, stop buying into the traitorous thug’s lies.

  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 10:46 pm

    @Jeffro:
    Yes.
    There is a difference in not only the level of the anger, but the direction and cause. Anger is an emotion for a reason, it is necessary sometimes to understand that someone is fucking you, or others, and not in a good way. Anger directed at made up bullshit is the result of propaganda, which of course is the conservative way. I’d bet they actually do know that everything they want is bullshit but that doesn’t stop them from wanting it. But because it’s bullshit and because they spread that bullshit around like free air and because most of what they want is to fuck over someone else they have to manufacture anger. They are good at that.
    I’d like a country where civility was normal. Real civility though, that people actually care about others, that it’s OK to give healthcare to those who can’t afford it, that it’s OK to allow every one to vote, to breathe, to walk without the fear that people in uniform will gun them down because they look slightly different in some way, that people with a vagina actually do have autonomy over their bodies, that the water we drink is safe ……………………………..

  200. 200.

    zhena gogolia

    June 25, 2018 at 10:47 pm

    @George:

    Right.

  201. 201.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:48 pm

    @James E Powell:

    I’m generally in favor of breakfast, but we need to be prepared for it to be frickin’ CRAZY anywhere nearby. When we went to the March for Our Lives, I stood in line for water at Starbucks for 20 minutes and they were running out of everything.

  202. 202.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 10:49 pm

    NYM
    NYM
    NYM
    NYM
    NYM
    FUCKING NYM.

    Alain to fix, please.

  203. 203.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 10:49 pm

    @B.B.A.: sounds more like a joke that trump is twisting with his usual projection

    The vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee let loose Friday night at a dinner he hosted for the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee, telling guests that they should “buckle up” for coming revelations from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into the Trump campaign and Russian meddling.
    “If you get me one more glass of wine, I’ll tell you stuff only Bob Mueller and I know, Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) told guests gathered at his Martha’s Vineyard home, according to Politico’s playbook. “If you think you’ve seen wild stuff so far, buckle up. It’s going to be a wild couple of months.”

  204. 204.

    GregB

    June 25, 2018 at 10:50 pm

    The treatment our government is meting out to these innocent children is a fucking outrage.

    It is a crime against humanity.

    God, I am sick.

  205. 205.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 10:51 pm

    To “mad dog”. Your soldiers have more backbone than you.

    Active-duty and retired U.S. military officers and enlisted personnel are expressing moral outrage over the Defense Department setting up detention camps for undocumented immigrants on military bases, Daily Beast reports.

    "It smacks of totalitarianism.

    " https://t.co/borIEVgqLc— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 26, 2018

  206. 206.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    @FlyingToaster:

    We saw the TV movie in school. Starring Danny Kaye! That’s actually why I remember so clearly that they chickened out of showing up in Skokie itself. ?

    For some reason, our little North Shore junior high had multiple anti-fascist/anti-Nazi lesson plans. We had a decent-sized but not anywhere near majority Jewish population, so I’m not entirely sure why, but it was definitely a thing. We also watched “The Wave” in class and had several days of discussion about it.

  207. 207.

    Doug R

    June 25, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    @TeezySkeezy (formerly the T S you hate):

    Wait until the full economic effect of the tariffs lands. Canada is enacting their retaliatory tariffs pretty soon….The fainting couch industry will at least get a bump with all the incivility we’ll be drowning in.

    Canadian Costco has been busy putting things on Trudeau’s list on sale, we’re stocked up on Coffee, Automatic Dishwasher Detergent, Mayonnaise, Soy sauce and inflatable boats.

  208. 208.

    SWMBO

    June 25, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    @Alain the site fixer: Is this because net neutrality is gone? Are we subjected to some mad torture because we were in favor of net neutrality and now we have problems with FYWP?

  209. 209.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:00 pm

    @James E Powell:
    What we normally do is pick a meeting point/time, like the Metro red line Civic Center station and go from there. I suggest the 1st and Hill St entrance as our meeting point. Mnmes suggested 10:30. That gives us time to stumble to City Hall. The gathering point is City Hall and then march to the Federal Building.

  210. 210.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:03 pm

    @Platonailedit:

    “It smacks of totalitarianism.

    Kyle, it doesn’t smack of totalitarianism – it is fucking totalitarianism.

  211. 211.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 11:08 pm

    @Mnemosyne: My eighth grade class was required to see “Nacht und Nebel” (Night and Fog, on the Nazi extermination program). Even though mine was one of only two Jewish families in the school. There was a serious anti-fascist curriculuum up to at least the Reagan era.

    In these days of high-stakes testing, I notice that fewer kids know any actual history — so much so that I’ve been bookmarking @pptsapper’s Drunk History tweetstorms and reading them to WarriorGirl.

  212. 212.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 11:10 pm

    @Ruckus:

    That looks like a pretty short walk, especially compared to the March for Our Lives. Are we supposed to go around a couple of times? ?

    Little Tokyo looks like a good option to get a bite to eat either before or after, and it’s right on the Gold Line for you.

  213. 213.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 11:14 pm

    @FlyingToaster:

    Wait, they made you watch Night and Fog IN EIGHTH GRADE?!? That’s practically child abuswe. I saw it my freshman year of college 20+ years ago (at CLC!) and I still have nightmares about it sometimes. The visual quotes from it in Schindler’s List almost made me throw up. ?

  214. 214.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:16 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Sent an email but that sounds good to me.

    ANYBODY WANT TO JOIN Team Gimpy, Grumpy and Slow on Sat June 30 for a short walk in downtown LA?

  215. 215.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 11:18 pm

    Shorter rethugs. Safe spaces for me, jails for thee.

    Fuck their asskissing media enablers.

  216. 216.

    Peale

    June 25, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    @Ruckus: I wonder what will happen when they realize that these tent cities will be a permanent feature for far more than just “undocumented”. At some point he’s going to be tracking down those Syrian refugees he wailed on during his campaign and has to do “something” about those busloads of Somalis that have committed vote fraud. From what I can tell, the numbers being provided for in tent cities would fit those documented aliens that he despises the most because they are Muslims and poor.

    I hope that when the court upholds part of the travel ban later this summer, it takes into consideration that the ban was supposed to be the first step towards establishing that the president could declare the visas of whole groups of people invalid.

  217. 217.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm

    Thanks Alain for fixing the mobile sign-in issue.

  218. 218.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:21 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    I’d bet another reason they are asking for RSVP is so they know how to plan the thing. 11 days is very short notice for such an event in this day and age. I’d bet that 30 days is a tough nut.
    I’ve worked on the complete set up/promotion/arrival/etc of sporting events in places that we’d never gone to prior and it’s a tough gig, even at a private location. Put something on over city streets? Yes we did that once as well, the words fucking nightmare comes to mind.

  219. 219.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    @Peale:
    See my comment at #209

  220. 220.

    efgoldman

    June 25, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    Goodnight.
    Not worth the time and hassle to keep typing my info. Fuckit
    I’ll check back tomorrow

  221. 221.

    FlyingToaster

    June 25, 2018 at 11:26 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Yep. And if you missed the school showing, you got bussed down to the district Central Office to see a makeup showing. And the following year we had a unit on propaganda during our core-curriculuum Civics class.

    They weren’t kidding around. I and all of my siblings saw it. But my niece (class of ’05, 8th grade in 00-01) didn’t. At some point when the testing shit started, these civics requirements went out the window. If you can’t regurgitate it in a bubble test, it’s not important anymore.

    Thank dog for Lin-Manuel Miranda. And every MS and HS history teacher who tries to put some context into their lesson.

  222. 222.

    Kay

    June 25, 2018 at 11:30 pm

    @Mandalay:

    Soooooo…..her view is that the public must be civil, but Trump gets a free pass.

    Absolutely. That’s absolutely what they’re saying.

    “Senior government officials” can say or do anything they want, but wait staff in a restaurant have to observe decorum or the President of the United States will attempt to put that restaurant out of business. They endorse that gross misuse of power. That’s fine- it’s the behavior of the wait staff they’re worried about.

  223. 223.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 11:36 pm

    Oh noes. Now nym and email don’t even persist after a page refresh. Things are going backward in that respect.

  224. 224.

    Peale

    June 25, 2018 at 11:37 pm

    @Kay: crackdowns they support. Those are manly things. Getting tough. Zero Tolerance. Forcing prisoners to wear pink underwear as if they had a choice. Crack downs for the poor are fine.

    Uprisings? Nip that shit in the bud.

  225. 225.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 25, 2018 at 11:38 pm

    @Kay: great thread here on the asymmetric need for “civility”, and some truth about “identity politics”

    Lilliana Mason @ LilyMasonPhD
    -There needs to be an honest conversation about asymmetric expectations of civility. (Thread)
    -This is backed up by my research with @ julie_wronski demonstrating that the GOP is more powerfully fueled by (white, Evangelical) identity politics than Democrats are fueled by their own groups’ identities.
    -So, there is empirical evidence that the GOP is better incentivized to use rhetoric based on identity threat. They are therefore more prone to using inflammatory language, and more threatened by challenges to their supremacy.

  226. 226.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 11:39 pm

    Now the desktop version seems to have caught the earlier mobile version disease. I don’t think it is fywp problem at all since other fywp sites work fine.

  227. 227.

    Kay

    June 25, 2018 at 11:40 pm

    @NoahCRothman
    Follow Follow @NoahCRothman
    More Noah Rothman Retweeted Jenna Lifhits
    Waters now repudiated by both Democratic House minority and Senate minority leaders.Noah Rothman added,

    The civility police made an arrest! Only Democrats will be charged, though. They will never, ever ask Republicans to “repudiate” anything. The President has been insulting people all day. The civility police were nowhere in sight.

    A House member gets a stern reprimand and the President of the United States gets a pass. That’s crazy and they’re crazy to go along with it. It’s wrong. They have this all twisted. It’s supposed to work the other way- the more power you have the more that is asked of you- they have this backward.

    No wonder they all admire Trump. They’re as fucked up as he is.

  228. 228.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:43 pm

    @Amir Khalid:
    They weren’t for me at first either. What I did to make it work was close the tab with BJ, reopen BJ, reopen a thread (this one), type comment, add name/email, click the remember box and now it works like it has been, seemingly forever. I can close BJ, reload, it’s still there, change threads, it’s still there. I’d bet there is something going on with browsers/WP that is leaving something screwy until you exit and start a new session.

  229. 229.

    Platonailedit

    June 25, 2018 at 11:44 pm

    @Kay: How long the voters will put up with this? Everything from policy forming to fighting for their own interests (and their own lives) have been left to the voters.

  230. 230.

    Kay

    June 25, 2018 at 11:46 pm

    Tucker Martin
    ‏

    @jtuckermartin
    5h5 hours ago
    More Tucker Martin Retweeted Noah Rothman
    Good. And when the President is similarly reckless in his rhetoric, Republican leadership needs to quickly and publicly repudiate him too. That’s how we begin to fix this

    Yeah, fat fucking chance, Tucker. We all know that’s not gonna happen. Republicans won’t even be asked to “repudiate”.

    But we sure held that Maxine Waters accountable! She got a stern reprimand.

    This is about power. It’s about protecting powerful people and the MOST powerful get the most protection.

  231. 231.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 11:47 pm

    Well, the ID information is gone again?

  232. 232.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 11:47 pm

    @Ruckus:
    So it does. I am relieved, and as ever grateful to Alain, the Chewbacca without whom this ship could not make the Kessel run.

  233. 233.

    rikyrah

    June 25, 2018 at 11:48 pm

    Did you watch the children on Maddow and LarryO????

  234. 234.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 11:48 pm

    Hm. Besides the loss of Recent Comments, at this moment we seem to have lost Recent Posts.

    Time to change the blog name to Entropy-Juice?

  235. 235.

    Davebo

    June 25, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @Platonailedit: WP runs great for tons of sites that implement a decent WP site. Works great for The New Yorker, BBC America, Variety, Sony Music and thousands of others.

    Blame not WordPress. Blame crappy WordPress developers and hosts.

  236. 236.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @rikyrah:
    Try closing BJ and reopening it in a new tab. That just fixed all but one of my problems.

  237. 237.

    kattails

    June 25, 2018 at 11:49 pm

    @r€nato: saved to my desktop. Perfect summary of the background.

    How many times do I need to refer to the “Rules? in a knife fight?” scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    June 25, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @Kay:
    That’s bullshit.
    Not what you said, but Maxine Waters being chastised by her leadership.
    OTHO I do understand that we are the minority party and that we’d like and need the election in Nov to go exceedingly well for us. Is it possible that the leadership thinks that we need to suck it up and not give any ammunition to the other side, in the hope that we can pull some of their shithead voters over and make the victory not only possible but possibly massive. An overwhelming level of support to do what conservatives refuse to even discuss, impeachment. I wonder what the internal polling on the dem side is showing 5 months out.

  239. 239.

    Amir Khalid

    June 25, 2018 at 11:51 pm

    @NotMax:
    You could work around that by opening the front page in a separate tab and periodically refreshing it.

  240. 240.

    EBT

    June 25, 2018 at 11:52 pm

    @George: America is fine, it is the Americans that need to be taken to task.

  241. 241.

    Kay

    June 25, 2018 at 11:53 pm

    @Platonailedit:

    I don’t know but this really isn’t complicated at all. The Trump Administration do not have a leg to stand on re: civility. They forfeited the high ground. They don’t hold it.

    Donald Trump and his rude, mean-spirited employees and horrible family are not in a position to lecture ANYONE on good behavior. I didn’t put them there- they raced to the bottom all by themselves.

  242. 242.

    Peale

    June 25, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    @Kay: at this point, we might as well let it all out and openly start spitting on the GOP. Or at least belching. The press elite have internalized enough Rush that they believe that our default liberal hearts are white manhating feminazis, while the true republican, despite all appearances, is a kind moderate soul that’s just waiting to express itself again.

  243. 243.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 11:55 pm

    @Davebo

    Deep down, get the feeling that Alain is laboring to kludge an aged (in computer years) FYWP theme which is now the proverbial square peg.

  244. 244.

    NotMax

    June 25, 2018 at 11:57 pm

    @Amir Khalid

    Front page is always open in a separate tab. No go, I’m afraid.

  245. 245.

    Mnemosyne

    June 25, 2018 at 11:58 pm

    @Kay:

    This is about power. It’s about protecting powerful people and the MOST powerful get the most protection.

    I’m starting to feel like we’re caught up in some weird psychodrama where journalists react to Trump like he’s their Drunk Daddy. We have to be careful not to make Drunk Daddy angry, and if he does get angry, it’s all our own fault and we have to try harder not to make him angry. We all have to pretend that Drunk Daddy isn’t drunk because what would the neighbors think?

    I wish they would get some goddamned therapy and leave the rest of us out of their little psychodrama.

  246. 246.

    Kay

    June 26, 2018 at 12:02 am

    @Ruckus:

    The Democratic base loathes Trump. They’ll see it as a capitulation because it won’t be reciprocal. And they’ll be right. It’s a capitulation because it isn’t reciprocal. Trump is lying and insulting people right now, tonight. No one is repudiating him. No one will be asked to repudiate him. Democrats see that as unfair and they’re right- it is unfair.
    All anyone really wants from an advocate is for that person to be on their side. They don’t want a lecture or an explanation. They want someone on their side. Democrats should stand there, with their voters.

  247. 247.

    Platonailedit

    June 26, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @Ruckus: Rethugs are totally silent on the traitorous thug’s and his nazi regime’s actions but come out with their guns blazing when one of their klan is told to fuck off. May be dems could do that instead of pusillanimous ‘gaming’ that on ‘internal polls’.

  248. 248.

    Ruckus

    June 26, 2018 at 12:03 am

    @Davebo:
    Those sites you mention have their own themes and support staff. The staff of a liberal/pet/travel blog doesn’t have that level of budget. I half expect John to come back at me with, “Budget, we have no fucking budget!” Those sites get a lot more eyeballs and can command higher ad rates. John gets what they give him at WP or at Hosting Matters.
    I have a WP blog and I’ve posted at it once in the last 3 yrs and I still get a few hits a month. People have commented on the theme that they really like what I wrote. I wrote nothing. Not one letter of code. I use a standard theme and just made the changes that I liked, that the theme allowed. But BJ gets more comments on most any thread than I’ve gotten in 11 yrs. Which is partially why my blog just sits there. It feels like a waste of time.

  249. 249.

    Platonailedit

    June 26, 2018 at 12:04 am

    @Kay:

    All anyone really wants from an advocate is for that person to be on their side. They don’t want a lecture or an explanation. They want someone on their side. Democrats should stand there, with their voters.

    Exactly this. If you can’t fucking help, then fucking shut up.

  250. 250.

    Platonailedit

    June 26, 2018 at 12:05 am

    Aaand the mobile site is back to being borked.

  251. 251.

    Kay

    June 26, 2018 at 12:07 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    I just think they are WAY off base with this one. The Smoky Eye Outrage was at least somewhat understandable- people have different interpretations of humor. This is just a full court press to protect powerful people and shit on less powerful people.

    They’re wrong. They have this backward. The standard is supposed to be HIGHER for the President and his appointees, not LOWER.

  252. 252.

    George

    June 26, 2018 at 12:09 am

    @EBT: Not me. I voted Democratic in 2016 and 2014 and 2012 and 2010 and 2008, etc. If you want to take anyone to task, let it be the rightwing.

  253. 253.

    Kay

    June 26, 2018 at 12:11 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    It’s hysterical, in a way. They stood by and watched for the last two years as Trump insulted and demeaned and bullied all kinds of people and the moment the public starts to get uppity and pushes back it’s “whoa! Settle down, you back there in the cheap seats!”

    Where was all this concern about “civility” for the last two years? NOW they object?

  254. 254.

    Ruckus

    June 26, 2018 at 12:15 am

    @Kay:
    I agree 100%.
    I’m just playing a little devils advocate here. The dem leadership isn’t normally this squishy at all. I’m just wondering what is going on behind the closed doors that is changing that. Might there be something more to it is all I’m saying.
    You are closer to the upper levels, even at a state level than I am, I’ve volunteered a few times to the local dem organizations where I live now and have gotten not one response. I get lots of requests for money, a few “this isn’t a request for money, but could you send us a bunch anyway?” but my time obviously isn’t worth shit. Now that may be LA, we have a lot of blue here, I know that when I lived in OH that ain’t the case. A good fried in OH was an area captain for President Obama, both times and I would have helped him if I still lived there then. I did volunteer for President Obama, closed my business on occasion to work. It was worth it.

  255. 255.

    BlueDWarrior

    June 26, 2018 at 12:17 am

    @Kay: But Kay, you know how this works, and how the way it was always supposed to work in the American Media, ever since the late 19th Century.

    The forces of Progress must be moderate and not offend the vast generic middle or the powers-that-be, especially when it comes to economic ‘rabble-rousing’. The forces of the status-quo or regress can do whatever they want, up to actually murdering people, which might get a mild condemnation but nothing too severe.

    We’ve always had a insane imbalance in how this debate is perceived, and its why we have to scrap and struggle, and sometimes die to move the ball forward socially.

  256. 256.

    Ruckus

    June 26, 2018 at 12:20 am

    @Platonailedit:
    Notice the people that the leadership is trying to control. It’s not us, it’s not the DC dem voters, it’s people who serve with them or work for them. They didn’t do this not that long ago. This is a change, a drastic one, a high level one and a concerted one. It may be for the wrong reasons, it may be very well thought out. I’m saying don’t jump to conclusions that dem leadership is in the bag, because they just might know something we don’t.

  257. 257.

    Mnemosyne

    June 26, 2018 at 12:24 am

    @Kay:

    Oh, they’re 100 percent wrong, and they’re shocked and startled at the amount of pushback they’re getting. The bully is getting punched in the nose, and his little toadies don’t understand what’s going on. They don’t get why Democrats aren’t knuckling under like they’re supposed to, but they keep trying to get us to back down.

    Problem is, they messed with kids, and that has both Democrats and independents pissed right off. The Trumpistas stepped over the line and pushed us too far. They are NOT going to enjoy the results. ?

  258. 258.

    danielx

    June 26, 2018 at 12:25 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    1

    No one is calling for political violence or anything like that. But you take away people’s ability to vent their frustrations by yelling “Fuck you fascist” or doing something minor like telling some scumbag to get the fuck out of your restaurant, well, then you’re actually heading down a dangerous road.

    2

    This is not how we’re supposed to resolve even the most profound of political differences in this country. I thought so in 1963; I knew so in 1968; and by now it is such a bedrock principle that I can’t even bear to hear someone casually mention a violent solution.

    3

    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_f_kennedy_101159

    Don’t know if you’re still around, but….I wholeheartedly agree with 1 and 2 , but #3 comes to mind a lot these days. When the powers that be indicate they are going to suppress peoples’ opinions via any means necessary, including suppressing peoples’ right to vote – including people who have voted in complete integrity and compliance with the law – well.

    When you try to do away with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, well, things are going to get ugly.

  259. 259.

    Platonailedit

    June 26, 2018 at 12:32 am

    @Mnemosyne: Rethugs always overstep. Always.

  260. 260.

    Ruckus

    June 26, 2018 at 12:41 am

    @Mnemosyne:
    @Kay:
    I think Mnems may have something here. Remember that drumpf is a seriously fucked up human. And fucked up in ways that make him not only unsuited/unsuitable for the job he ran for, but very dangerous as well. He’s got serious health issues and his side acts like everything is hunky dory. He’s got serious mental health issues and they act hunky dory. This is either the situation of a lifetime for the repubs or they are as scared and pissed as we are but are afraid to say anything because they know as much as we do, that a caged, crazed rabid animal with the military that we have is extremely dangerous.
    I am no different than anyone else here, I hate, Hate, HATE, FUCKING HATE this asshole drumpf. But we have what one chance to stop him, impeachment. and we have to control congress to get there. And even then it’s not going to be easy. This country is, as best as I can tell, as dysfunctional as a country gets right now. There is one way to change that. It’s the same way we stop this mad man and his enablers. And it’s our leadership who has to do that. We have to help them but this falls upon their shoulders after we give them the power. That’s just the way it works.
    All I’m saying is that we don’t know the internals, they could be fabulous, they could be bad. We don’t know. Indictments could be ready to fall. We don’t know. They have to fall soon or wait till after Nov though so maybe that’s a part of it. There could be some back door dealings with impeachment going on. I’d bet there are at least a few repubs that would go along, as long as it could be done swiftly. Which might not happen if there are too many cases of outrage. It’s not that the outrage is bad, I’d like to see a lot more of it myself. But maybe, just maybe there is a valid reason(s) to not peg the outrage meter by lawmakers, right now.

  261. 261.

    EBT

    June 26, 2018 at 12:43 am

    @George: No, this is 100% America. America is built on the blood and bones of children taken, screaming and in tears, from their parents; never to be seen again. From the first pilgrims driving out the native populations, to slavery and residential schools, to the foul orphanage system. And as an American you and I are both complicit to it all.

  262. 262.

    M31

    June 26, 2018 at 12:44 am

    @Doug R:

    Canadian Costco has been busy putting things on Trudeau’s list on sale, we’re stocked up on Coffee, Automatic Dishwasher Detergent, Mayonnaise, Soy sauce and inflatable boats.

    a fella could have a pretty good time in Vegas with all that stuff

  263. 263.

    jl

    June 26, 2018 at 12:53 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Man, you ripped through the whole Simi Valley boy scout oath, there and left it in tatters.
    Not trustworthy, helpful, friendly, courteous, or kind. And,neither obedient nor reverent toward your elders!
    But you seem very cheerful about it, which makes your infraction worse.
    I forget how the punish bad scouts in Simi Valley. You have to go out behind the back stop and smoke some dope or something, IIRC.

  264. 264.

    Deep Southerner

    June 26, 2018 at 1:15 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: I realize that this thread is probably dead, but I have a running bet with friends as to how long it will be until Trump tries to stage a high-profile fake assassination attempt to distract from something. The Reality Show TV President won’t be able to resist that plot twist. Fortunately, it’s almost a sure thing that he and his people would fuck it up and end up looking maximally ridiculous. And still the Base would stand behind him.

  265. 265.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    June 26, 2018 at 1:25 am

    @jl: Oh jl, this is quite sad, your whole fixation with Simi Valley. Was there a girl there?

  266. 266.

    jl

    June 26, 2018 at 2:23 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Harumph. I remember back in the day when blog trolls were civil. Dang kids these days.

  267. 267.

    VFX Lurker

    June 26, 2018 at 4:49 am

    @Mnemosyne: I plan to go. I should probably take a Lyft to the Metro, though — I suspect all the Metro parking will be gone before I get there.

  268. 268.

    WhyKnot241

    June 26, 2018 at 2:59 pm

    Fuck you John. Fuck you very, very much. I stand with Lily Allen. Your bothsiderism sickens me.

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