Current mood:
“Oh, you think darkness is your ally. But you merely adopted the dark; I was born in it, molded by it” pic.twitter.com/BzIww2KyCO
— liz drabick (@lizdrabick) June 3, 2019
BREAKING: @HouseDemocrats (and only 7 House R’s) just passed the #DreamAndPromiseAct, a landmark bill to protect 2.5 million Dreamers and other immigrants from Trump’s inhumane immigration policies.
This is what keeping campaign promises looks like.
Your move, @SenateMajLdr. pic.twitter.com/J04Z6Qz93Z
— CAP Action ?????? (@CAPAction) June 4, 2019
Everyone should encourage their elected officials and candidates to sign this pledge!
Fairer districts means our voices as voters are better represented in policy decisions that affect all of us—it's really that simple. https://t.co/I1y89P0GXw
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 4, 2019
We believe that a woman has a right to choose. We believe that a woman has a right to make those determinations. Republicans cannot foist their beliefs on us. -NP pic.twitter.com/udiyV9g5Z5
— Nancy Pelosi (@TeamPelosi) June 4, 2019
WATCH: Our new free video class where @Fahrenthold teaches you to conceive and execute top notch investigative stories. Learn how he used @twitter as a crowdsourcing and engagement tool. https://t.co/jQeVzi2BuE pic.twitter.com/Ff2dZIvjla
— Newmark J-School (@newmarkjschool) June 4, 2019
On the Road and In Your Backyard
OzarkHillbilly
All the more reason for GOPers to fight them.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ? ??
Betty Cracker
Okay, this made me laugh:
rikyrah
Stu Cameron (@stucam7771) Tweeted:
Ivanka has absolutely NO right to be in the UK cabinet room.
It’s very disappointing that the UK Government continue to pander to this family… https://t.co/TlUlaWCbY0 https://twitter.com/stucam7771/status/1135861178465509377?s=17
rikyrah
To Mayor Pete:
HawaiiDelilah™ Unredacted Version (@HawaiiDelilah) Tweeted:
Speak for yourself. Barack Obama did not let me down. But every time a Republican is in the White House, he either fucks up the economy or lands us in stupid wars while throwing more $ at the billionaires. I know the difference. This kind of “both sidesism” is a turn-off. https://t.co/29tgM9MwvT https://twitter.com/HawaiiDelilah/status/1136046342499840000?s=17
satby
All those great tweets, and I just wanted to know the story behind the muzzled corgi.
Anne Laurie
@satby:
I don’t know either, but they do tend to be nippers. As you probably know, the breed started as cattle herders — unlike sheep, cattle tend to need more concrete ‘encouragement’ than a collie’s stern looks.
(It’s also supposed to be why they’re short-legged; when a cow kicked backward after being nipped, the hoof would go over the dog’s tough bullet head. )
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Baud
@rikyrah:
I think a lot of the anger directed at Pete is unjustified, but (without having seen the clip), I have to agree. It does not serve Dems to validate cynicism about Dems. I understand you have to accommodate voters’ unreasonable viewpoints, but Pete is a good and thoughtful enough person to be able to do that with undermining the rest of us.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Turning her back on D-Day, is she? //
Baud
This send politically motivated.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/sheriffs-deputy-arrested-connection-parkland-school-shooting/story?id=63487102
Too bad he didn’t just shoot an unarmer black man.
NotMax
@satby
Concession to Dolt 45, who is no animal fancier, is a germophobe and may well be afraid of dogs to boot?
satby
@Baud: should watch the clip, because he’s not saying anything much different than Obama himself has said about how tilted the playing field is in this country, most famously in the “clinging to their God and guns” speech.
satby
@Anne Laurie: @NotMax: turns out, the dog was at the vet for an ear infection. Not one of the queen’s corgis.
debbie
@Baud:
I think the Pete tweet this Delilah chick is responding to isn’t a slam on Obama. He would be the first to say he didn’t accomplish everything he wanted to, but at least he fucking tried his best. Her profile says that Hawaii has the best senators, so Delilah’s a Tulsi gal, which should put her tweet in perspective.
debbie
@Baud:
His “excuse” for doing nothing is that he was not a “care-giver.” Hell with him.
debbie
@NotMax:
Remember Putin intimidating Merkel with his German Shepherd?
satby
@debbie: huh, go figure.
Baud
@satby:
Can’t watch now, but I’m not reacting to that message. I’m reacting to this message:
That first sentence is bad framing that hurts us all.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I can’t see this ever getting to a trial but IANAL, so what do I know.
NotMax
@debbie
Hawaii’s senators are Hirono and Schatz.
(Sounds like an accounting firm, doesn’t it? :) )
Baud
@debbie:
I don’t care about her. I was reacting to underlying news report.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: Tulsi is not a Senator.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Seems scapegoaty but I don’t know how strong the case is under Florida law.
satby
@Baud: is it? Is it bad framing to acknowledge a reality, if the larger statement goes on the point out that the Democrats try to improve things and are blocked constantly by Republicans?
TBH, some of the most insecure, shitty years of my life were from the end of 2013- 2017, when I could finally qualify for SS. I know who to blame for making life difficult, but pointing out it was is in no way a slam on the former president.
Edited to add: it’s the second sentence that’s the important one.
Matt McIrvin
Currently slightly annoyed by Left Twitter’s inability to tell the difference between conservatives trollishly playing “independent”, and liberals who are less left-wing than themselves (they’re all vile “centrists”).
Baud
@satby:
Yeah. It’s bad framing in 2019. It morally equates Dems and the GOP by grouping them together, which is the type of thinking that had led us to the mess we’re in. Maybe it was ok framing in the past, but not after 2016. Not to me anyway.
I acknowledge that the larger context of his remarks may leave a different impression.
Baud
@satby:
I didn’t read it as an attack on Obama specifically, FWIW.
Southern Goth
@rikyrah:
Sounds like a shorter version of this:
Baud
Netflix is doing a miniseries on the Central Park 5. Hope people bring up Trump.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: A willingness to risk life and limb may be a job requirement but I don’t see how the law can mandate it. To me, this sounds like the sheriff and the county DA are trolling for Republican votes.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: SSDD
Baud
@Southern Goth:
The controversy over the “clinging to” comment overshadowed the other remarks. But that was also a different time and, frankly, not as pointed as what Pete is quoted as saying.
If Obama said the same thing today as a way to explain Trump, I would be equally disappointed.
NotMax
@Matt McIrvin
Twitter doth suck goat droppings.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Inability or unwillingness?
Dr Ronnie James DO
The Farenthold J school thing is interesting. There’s a clear issue with something akin to “regulatory capture” happening at our high level journalistic institutions, esp FTFNYT. Journalists at these places (all trained at the best J schools, surely) have been conditioned to *stop* doing essential parts of journalism, like verify factual assertions, and provide context for the statements and actions of public officials. In effect, the elite J schools are becoming finishing schools, grooming their students to ingratiate themselves with the elites they’ll soon cover.
Giving ordinary people training in how to conduct journalism without the institutional pressure to “sweeten a beat” may be just what is needed.
Kay
@Baud:
School shootings have divided into two camps, with the pro-gun regulation side saying there needs to be comprehensive gun control legislation and and the anti-gun regulation side saying school-level security is the problem, so that group would tend to fire the superintendent, indict law enforcement for negligence, arm teachers, “harden” schools, etc.
Their ideology forbids anything that regulates guns, so they frantically regulate everything and everyone else- students, schools, school security, etc. It doesn’t really make any sense because of course we have mass shootings in many, many places other than schools, but because it is what they CAN do – what they are permitted to do without admitting unregulated guns are dangerous, it’s what they do.
satby
@Baud: but semi-anonymous Hawaiian tweeter did. And then was amplified.
And I am old enough to remember that context was something that people had to defend Obama’s statements with pretty often too. What most people would take away from that is the acknowledgment that things aren’t working for a large portion of our society, which is a reinforcement of Warren’s message too. I think Pete has topped out in polls so it’s weird that there’s still such a focus on him, but he toes the party line and he’s good at putting the issues out in a way that can reach disaffected voters… that small % of non-voters we need to motivate to come out to vote with us. Not Trump voters, non-voters.
gene108
@Baud:
It’s not wrong. A lot of would be Democratic voters feel let down by both parties.
Really is a tough thing. I don’t know what Democrats need deliver to change this.
Baud
@satby:
I agree that the attention on him and the hate directed towards him is over the top. But I became aware of this particular comment, and it triggered an issue I’m particularly sensitive to. I still like Pete generally and I’m glad he’s a prominent and effective voice in our party.
Dave
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah I can’t help but see this as utterly cynical at best a desperate need to see someone punished. The thing about these sort of situations is that no one knows how they will react until they are in them and facing them alone is whole other animal then facing them with a team. While his actions, or inaction as it may be, certainly weren’t laudable they shouldn’t be prosecuted like this.
satby
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie: Friend I spent last week with speculated that Ivanka was pregnant. I believe her evidence was the repeated fashion failures.
Baud
@gene108:
Lots of things are not wrong. I could do nothing but post comment after comment here making true observations about what Dems or progressives or whatever other group on our side has done wrong.
A gifted and prominent voice like Pete should be able to find a way to address voters impressions that doesn’t serve to validate them. But I would react the same way even if a less gifted politician did the same thing.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: It’s been fascinating to see how the new law enabling armed teachers is playing out in rural Florida, where the elected officials and the yahoos who elected them are desperately deflecting from the real problem — unregulated access to guns. In the new laws passed after Parkland, Republicans prescribed more “good guys with guns” at schools. Yet at the county level, they are unwilling to actually pack more guns into schools because even they must realize that’s a bad idea, though they’ll never say so.
Dave
@Dr Ronnie James DO: I listen to a few podcasts that have had journalists on and you can see the anti-process take hold whenever the conversation turns to the inadequacy and maladaptive nature of the view form nowhere or he said/she said who can possibly know journalism. It’s striking and frustrating to hear. Some may just be the whole paycheck man hard to understand thing but for many of them it’s deeper being asked to overturn their entire philosophy of life.
Baud
@satby:
If that’s directed at me, it’s way off base. I’m not going to not criticize candidates who say things I don’t like. And I’m not going to hate on anyone who supports Pete or votes for him in the primary, and I’m not going to carp about him if he’s the nominee.
Lapassionara
@gene108: Dems gave us Social Security and Medicare. They could propose ways to strengthen those programs. Dems gave us the ACA. They could, and I think are, proposing ways to strengthen those programs. I can think of others, including judges not tilted toward corporations.
Kay
@Dave:
There are studies now that indicate the school shooting drills are useless. There aren’t enough school shootings to study but some of these schools had plenty of security systems and it didn’t matter. The Connecticut shooting for example- that was a well resourced, well run school and they had really elaborate security systems. It just didn’t matter. OTOH we have thousands and thousands of low income schools in this country in hundred year old buildings with no security systems at all and they have not had shootings. I just think it will turn out that school-level security was the “solution” we came up with because no one was willing to do anything about the problem. We won’t regulate guns so instead we regulate people and places.
OzarkHillbilly
@Dave: At the time I was one who said the man did not fulfill the minimum requirements of his job but that nobody knows how they will react until they are in the moment and that past performance is no guarantee of future results. Not everybody can be a hero. I also stated that I hoped the sheriff’s dept. would be providing him with the mental health resources he almost without a doubt would be in need of.
Yeah, so much for that.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I agree, that is heartening. Putting guns in schools is a disaster. Period. They know that :)
I’m on a school committee (we don’t meet in the summer) and I’m going to raise the issue of the drills – just start that discussion. I think the drills are scaring kids and if they don’t work we shouldn’t do so many. I try to think thru the steps of a school shooting and I don’t know WHY they would work. I know why a fire drill works. I don’t know that these drills accomplish anything other than scaring 2nd graders. We could accomplish the same thing by calling them “safety drills”- so fire, tornado, whatever. It’s the same process. It’s an orderly evacuation.
Baud
@Kay:
Seems to me that the problem with drills is that it gives future shooters valuable Intel on how the school will respond to a shooting.
Immanentize
@Kay:
But with your hands in the air like you are an 8 year old POW
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: HERETIC! BLASPHEMER!!!
Immanentize
@Kay: @Baud:
Why and how did schools finally get rid of duck and cover drills? I am sure the same process was involved —
Sputnik! Damn we better do something about nuclear weapons and schools! (Can’t regulate nukes, so regulate people in government controlled spaces).
Duck and cover drills for every kid!
But at some point, someone(s) realized it was traumatizing kids and was a useless drill against total annihilation. So we at least have an example where wisdom prevailed.
Dave
@Kay: I don’t doubt that. Security is insanely expensive and fundamentally unworkable on this scale. It’s a red herring but the politics of gun control and “do something but not that thing” lead to this sort of idiocy.
As for charging the more I think about it’s nuts. I was a grunt back in the day and yes we would have viewed this guy with contempt because it would have been necessary for us to do that but the thing is you don’t go into combat alone. And having being a school resource officer is pointedly not being a grunt on patrol on Afghanistan. And we should not want it to be. There are massive second order costs to living like you are in a combat zone 24/7. It’s why I hate the “constant vigilance have a plan to kill etc crap”. Humans can’t do that without suffering other consequences and the last thing we currently need is to further encourage the warrior cop death is around the corner mentality but since we as nation can’t actually have adult conversations about policy, trade offs, costs, etc we end up with crap like firing everyone down the change and then charging this guy.
Sorta of an aside but the other thing about firefights i(and again it is utter madness to think a school resource officer should be focusing on this) is that even well trained motivated units usually don’t perform all that well in the first few they are in. So of course our solution will be to demand that people whose primary job is not and should not be this react like hardened veterans fighting as part of a team.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: That’s because they know that if an armed employee screws up, the school district will be on the hook for it, not to mention that their insurance costs are going to go through the roof. You know, the one they already can’t afford to repair?
satby
@Baud: it wasn’t specifically directed at you, hence no @Baud; but it’s a recent quote from Obama about how
Buttigeig consciously models himself on Obama. It’s odd that people miss that.
Edited to add: my status as a devoted Baudette is unchanged, but we’re going to have to disagree about which sentence is the key takeaway that less politically engaged people will retain.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Heh.
Baud
@satby:
Ok, good. I agree with Obama.
satby
@Baud: don’t we all?
Baud
@satby:
We don’t! My comment wasn’t directed at the key takeaway for voters. My comment was solely directed at the intro sentence of a two sentence excerpt. I just don’t want to see any candidate talk about Dems and the GOP in the same breadth like that.
I’m sure Pete isn’t the only one who has done this. And I’m sure it’ll come up again, probably with someone else.
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
Yeah, scared cops making everyone into a prisoner… do not like that, must be a better way to handle victims than like that~!!~
Kay
@Immanentize:
They will be scared NOT to do them, because if they don’t and there’s a shooting there will be a whole “could this have been prevented” inquiry. That’s how they get security creep. I’m sympathetic to them, BTW. That is EXACTLY what would happen. You can see the headline, right? “School minimized school shooter drills, then X killed”. That’s how they end up with ridiculous things like 8 year olds with their hands up. The cost of a mistake is so unimaginably high that they become irrational.
Leto
@Dave:
All of this. Firearm training is a fungible skill. It requires constant practice to be effective. You need to be on the range, weekly, sending hundreds of rounds downrange while doing all of the tactical movements involved. That’s not what’s going to happen here. That’s not what should happen here. We’re paying our teachers to teach, not be small unit commandos. Hell, even our police forces, who undoubtedly fire more often for training, still can’t effectively move/shoot/communicate without hitting more than just the target, or spend tons of rounds while only hitting the person once or twice. Madness. All of it.
Kay
@Dave:
Me too. Other than the perjury. It seems clear he lied about the response. Cops have to stop lying so much. They lie blatantly here- under oath, not under oath, in reports. If they can’t create an organizational culture that insists on truth-telling then the criminal system will have to fill the void.
NotMax
@Kay – et al.
Security theater is big business.
Dave
@Kay: Driven by our collective inability to have a rational conversation about almost anything let alone costs, efficacy, and predictable consequences. Or what is actually reasonable to expect from humans.
And yes the perjury should charged. If anything LEO’s should be held to a higher standard at minimum the same standard as the rest of us not the current one which seems to be perjury is only ever an issue if we need to throw you to the wolves for whatever reason.
Kay
@Immanentize:
I have had a 20 year relationship with our school band director. He had all my kids and he and I are always on the same side in meetings and committee. We had what I would call “vaping panic” this last school year- the kids are vaping. Band director totally lost it at one meeting. “Why are they vaping IN HERE? Because you’re all vaping OUT THERE”. Schools ARE communities. Whatever happens out there happens in here.
rikyrah
@Baud:
It has already dropped. From all who have seen it, it’s devastating???
Kay
@Dave:
That’s true. It’s almost never charged. It probably has to start being charged. They can regulate themselves or be regulated, their choice, but they have to stop lying.
OzarkHillbilly
@Leto: Cops shooting other cops is almost a police tradition in STL.
chopper
@Leto:
if only. christ, these people make next to nothing and now we want them to be seal team 6 on top of it all?
guess it would make salary negotiations a fun time, when the teachers all walk in in battle uniforms and toting assault weapons…
MomSense
@satby:
So if we respond or critique a comment Buttigieg made that was not only critical of Democrats but created a false equivalency that both Democrats and Republicans have failed people, then we are the ones engaging in a circular firing squad? Maybe he shouldn’t have made that comment that was critical of Democrats and that gave cover to obstructionist behavior by Republicans.
I do not understand why we are having such a hard time with critiquing him, especially since he really is a novice politician. He’s smart. He is capable of improvement. I honestly do not understand why we wouldn’t want someone with obvious potential to get better.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
WHO is insuring these districts, and how much does the policy cost?
MomSense
@satby:
Warren never even insinuates that Democrats and Republicans are both responsible for a system that doesn’t work for everyone.
Dorothy A. Winsor
NotMax
@Kay
There’s vaping and there’s vaping. The Juul craze amongst teens and the company’s marketing directed at them are a concern because the products are so insidiously atrocious and deleterious,
Kay
OK, I’m supporting Warren so I’m biased, but she is running a very good campaign. She’s on the front page of the Toledo Blade this morning with her manufacturing plan/bashing Trump on manufacturing. She wasn’t in Ohio. She was in Michigan, but Toledo borders Michigan and they cover a whole Michigan area regularly. They need coverage in LOCAL media. If they give local media access they will get more coverage.
Gin & Tonic
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Every war that the US military has engaged in for the last 150 years has been far away. That is a luxury that almost no other nation enjoys.
OzarkHillbilly
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
and he made damn sure it stayed very far away from him.
Leto
@OzarkHillbilly: Don’t doubt that at all. The stuff that I see out of Philadelphia involving both cops and criminals…
@chopper: I’ve argued that point too. Pay teachers more. Upgrade the facilities so they’re not teaching, and the students aren’t learning, in death traps. Put in solid wood doors, or steel doors, in the classrooms for security. There’s a million things that need to happen before we consider Kindergarten Cop as the appropriate solution.
I’ve made this point before but in the wake of 9/11 you didn’t see a mass rush to arm the pilots or stewardesses, to make them automatic Sky Marshals. There wasn’t a push to let passengers bring guns. What did they do? Steel doors on the cockpit. The Mile High OK Corral Club wasn’t considered.
Madness.
Kay
@NotMax:
Right. Vaping is banned in schools the same way smoking is banned in schools. That was his point. Whatever is happening out there comes in here. Bullying prevention (incredibly) became ideological because conservatives think it makes sissies or some dumb thing. Obviously they admire bullies so maybe that’s it- they think we’re suspending a potential President.
Anyway- it’s easier to approach if one puts in within a larger context. “We don’t allow students to treat other students that way”. Why can’t they bully? Because it’s bad behavior. They got it too. They easily and naturally incorporated it into the whole set of things they can’t do in school.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic:
Which is why we need a Space Cadet Corp. Their motto?
“Wars should be even further away from Trump”
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@MomSense: I’m not sure I agree with you about that…
CNN: Asked if DNC system was rigged in Clinton’s favor, Warren says ‘yes’ (2017)
It’s just one example, but Sen. Warren is not above a little bothsiderism and Dem-bashing herself.
MomSense
@Leto:
The Republicans do not want to spend money on public schools. This is one more example of abrogating responsibility for dealing with a societal problem or crisis and expecting teachers to meet the need on the cheap.
They want to arm teachers. They don’t even want to spend money on training the teachers to be SWAT teams. When armed teachers don’t stop the bad guy with the gun or when they inevitably shoot an innocent in a firefight, they will blame and even prosecute those teachers.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: I think in the particular case that annoyed me it was a sincere crie de coeur brought on by general frustration with a reactionary troll. But the community as a whole seems to gradually define “centrist” so broadly that it encompasses almost the entire political spectrum. (And there are actual centrists there too, who annoy me in different ways.)
MomSense
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Yup, but we are talking about the economic system being rigged. She doesn’t say that Dems are responsible. I was critical of her for saying that about the DNC and thankfully she hasn’t repeated it.
Also I’ve been very vocal about my issues with Warren. Foremost is trade. I think she’s awesome on consumer protection, wages, etc but I don’t support her for the nomination because of TPP and trade.
Leto
@Dorothy A. Winsor: This is moral cowardice taken to the max. Part of the reason I went to Iraq for my year long tour was I had been selected and I wasn’t going to pass that off to someone else. I could’ve denied that deployment, it was within my right to do so, but the thought of someone else going into harms way for me…
I didn’t support Iraq. I was scared out of my fucking mind (if you thought what you saw on the news was bad, circa late 2003-2007, the shit we were shown for deployment prep both officially and non-officially…), but I wouldn’t have been able to live with myself if I had shirked my duty and then my replacement was killed/maimed/harmed…
I have huge respect for conscious objectors/pacifists. It takes the same type of moral fortitude. But this motherfucker? Moral cowardice.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
Schools sure have changed since I was going to one, there wasn’t anything we couldn’t do.
NotMax
@OzarkHilbilly
Naked mopping was … frowned upon.
:)
Tazj
@Baud: I feel like they wanted someone to scapegoat and punish as well. Let’s make him into the most terrible person instead of a incompetent officer and we won’t have to change our guns laws and examine systemic problems. Firing him was reasonable, but criminal prosecution is way over the top and I find the hatred directed towards this man horrible. I understand the anger from the parents, but some of the reaction yesterday claiming that he was just as responsible as the shooter was crazy.
Edith Head Gave Good Gown
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m with you. It’s ludicrous to bring criminal charges. People in this country think gunfights go down like they do in the movies, and that it’s easy peasy to keep your head straight and just aim and fire and the problem solved. That security guard looks old, and asking a $10 an hour babysitter whose job is to make sure stragglers get to class to rush toward gunfire is breathtakingly stupid. He’d likely do more damage or be killed himself. Betting dollars to donuts he never had the appropriate training to do more than monitor/alert authorities. This case gets thrown out by any thinking judge.
raven
@Leto: This oped in the hated NYT was really interesting
A Gun Killed My Son. So Why Do I Want to Own One?
satby
@MomSense: @MomSense: eh, there’s certainly things to criticize him about. I just don’t think that statement is all that, especially as he went on speaking. There’s a significant portion of the country that doesn’t vote and doesn’t engage in politics. I think that’s a stupid choice and get pretty obnoxious IRL sometimes in discussions with those kinds of people. Which is why I am not a professional politician, luckily for all of us. All of our Democratic politicians are going to try to reach that small percentage of disengaged voters we need to attract, and they’re all going to piss off those of us who are more partisan doing it.
Leto
@MomSense: I totally agree with all of that.
My father and I got into a row over the training part. So I looked at the Florida bill. The initial training isn’t bad. But the kicker, which I knew would be there, is the follow up training. It’s basically none existent. It was originally “12 hours of training annually” (which is laughable and pathetic) but that was struck through and replaced with “annual training”. Which is just… why even have that? You basically go into Billy Bobs 1 hour recert and that’s good enough!
One of the things that is studied is how do we get humans to kill each other? The military studies this because that’s our bread and butter, especially for the Army and Marines. What’s the psychology involved with getting a person to go against their nature (not wanting to kill) and program them to be able to pull that trigger?
There’s also the psychological trauma involved with killing a person. Now imagine that the person you’ve killed is someone you love. It’s someone you’ve seen grow before your eyes, someone who you want all the best things in the world, you want them to grow up and be happy, do wonderful things, get married, have their own kids…
And you killed them. You didn’t mean to. Maybe they happen to run in between the shooter and you trying to get to safety. Maybe you were trying to get your gun out and it goes off because you didn’t have the safety on. The list of maybes is endless. And now you have to deal with that, on top of the fact that maybe you didn’t stop the shooter. That the shooter moved on and killed more people. Or maybe you also killed the shooter. You prevented more deaths but you also killed someone you loved in the process.
The NRA doesn’t give a shit. Republicans don’t give a shit. It’s madness. I guess we need to approach this like they do abortion. Incremental chipping away over a 40-50 year term. Frame it in the same way of “innocent lives”. Maybe do constant protests outside of gun stores (signs saying “PEOPLE ARE KILLED HERE”).
Madness.
NotMax
@Leto
So old can remember when school ‘officers’ were affable drunks rather than surly, armed drunks.
;)
Edith Head Gave Good Gown
@Baud: Interesting discussion regarding Mayor Pete. First, I liked him on paper. Saw him on Maher and he totally whiffed it, so I backed off. Then I saw his townhall, and he nailed it. I think he is a quick learner, and is getting the hang on navigating the minefield that is modern campaigning. I’m also glad he’s becoming a prominent voice.
evodevo
@Dave: YES. Humans haven’t been prey for thousands of years, (except from other humans) and modern humans have NO idea of the stress of being prey animal. Ask any squirrel, mouse or songbird – they have to remain hyperalert during every daylight moment, or they are toast. They pick up a virus and start feeling sick, and bam! they are hit because they’re slower than usual. Yet they still carry on daily life activities: feeding, mating, raising young, etc. If you could do a psychological on them, they would probably rate very high on the anxiety scale..with humans, you get depression and nightmares. You can see the result of our folly in the huge numbers of PTSD vets we have coming back from our various foreign adventures, and now we are trying to do the same to our kids. Reedikulus…
prostratedragon
I *am* that dog.
Leto
@raven: Took me a while to read but that was interesting. Thanks for sharing.
raven
@Leto: It is quite long and, after I posted it, I saw that you offered some of the same information. One thing that struck me is when he said “advocacy doesn’t work because it doesn’t work”. I don’t know what the fuck to do either but what’s being done now obviously doesn’t work.
OzarkHillbilly
@raven: @Leto: For the 2nd Amendment absolutists it’s a religion and the gun is the totem they bow down to and worship.
MomSense
Also too, what the fuck is Joe thinking?? He supports the Hyde Amendment. According to the Hill his campaign confirmed it.
That’s a big Fucking deal and not in a good way.
raven
@OzarkHillbilly:Did you read it?
Chris Johnson
@gene108:
Different Democrats. And that has already happened. We do NOT have entirely the same old Democrats. Modern day Dems are not burdened by the practical need to govern as Republican-alikes to get anything done: that was back when I was a kid, and I’m 50. (I know, in the Juiceteriat I am a kid, I’ll get off your lawn)
I’m encouraged by Buttigieg’s possibly empty words there. It could still be just noise, but it could be hopeful. I’d much rather Warren or even Harris got the nod but especially if you look at Buttigieg’s Rhodes Scholar butter-wouldn’t-melt background, this is interesting coming from him. You’d expect him to be extra wedded to the ‘Dems can never do wrong and have always been the biggest boosters ever’ party line, but the electorate are so burnt out on bullshit that they nearly elected Donald Trump as a sort of existential fuck-you (and then saw Russians and our totally corrupt voting system hand it to the guy anyway).
We don’t HAVE all the same old Democrats. We have a bunch of new ones, and we sure as hell don’t have to play an ‘appease the republicans’ game: that would be suicide at this stage. Our systems are already wrecked. We’ve got nothing to lose. Let Mayor Pete acknowledge the remembered past. It got us here.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@MomSense
I am really not surprised. Joe Biden is a LOT more conservative than people think. Somehow many people think because he was President Obama’s Vice President that he shares Pres. Obama’s views on many things. I will vote for him in the General if he is the nominee but I am leaning (and donating) to Harris and Warren at the moment. And I want Hyde overturned. Abortion is a medical procedure that should be NO ONE’s business except the person seeking an abortion and their doctor. I really hoped my daughter would not have to re-fight this battle… Although at the moment I am hoping she just chooses not to have children (while she still has that choice, and if you think contraception isn’t next on the table you are fooling yourself)
TenguPhule
@debbie:
Tulsi is in the House as a Representative. Our Senators are Hirono and Schatz.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@debbie
Tulsi is a Congressperson not a Senator.
Who by the way has a challenger for her Congressional seat from a Hawai’i state Senator :
https://www.kaikahele.com/
sgrAstar
@debbie: Tulsi isn’t a Senator. Hawaii does have good Senators- Hirono and Schatz. Not a wilmerite in the bunch.