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You are here: Home / Open Threads / …And Then The President Tweeted

…And Then The President Tweeted

by Cheryl Rofer|  July 3, 20197:13 pm| 119 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Trump Crime Cartel, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome

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Last week the Supreme Court decided that the census may not contain a question on whether a person is a citizen. For many of us who are not lawyers, that seemed an easy decision. The Constitution specifies the enumeration of persons, not citizens, although there is a bit of fudging with respect to Indians and people who don’t count as whole people. Additionally, tapes became available between the time the case was argued and when it was decided saying quite explicitly that the purpose of the question was to exclude certain groups, which meant that the government’s case to the Supreme Court was a lie.

The Justice Department said yesterday that the census forms were being printed without the question. Things seemed settled. And then the President tweeted.

The News Reports about the Department of Commerce dropping its quest to put the Citizenship Question on the Census is incorrect or, to state it differently, FAKE! We are absolutely moving forward, as we must, because of the importance of the answer to this question.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 3, 2019

A federal judge, George Jarrod Hazel, involved in the enforcement of the decision happened to be on Twitter and caught the tweet. He called a teleconference among the relevant lawyers. The transcript is here, and something of a hoot. It’s relatively short and worth reading, but I’ll excerpt some of the good parts.

So I guess the reason I wanted to have this call, obviously, we had our call — I guess it was yesterday; feels like a while ago, but I think it was yesterday — and then this morning I saw a tweet that got my attention. I don’t know how many federal judges have Twitter accounts, but I happen to be one of them, and I follow the President, and so I saw a tweet that directly contradicted the position that Mr. Gardner [counsel for the government] had shared with me yesterday.

The judge asks

Is the Government going to continue efforts to place a citizenship question on the 2020 census?

MR. GARDNER: Your Honor, this is Mr. Gardner. I want to back up just a step and say that I’ve been with the United States Department of Justice for 16 years, through multiple Administrations, and I’ve always endeavored to be as candid as possible with the Court. What I told the Court yesterday was absolutely my best understanding of the state of affairs and, apparently, also the Commerce Department’s state of affairs, because you probably saw Secretary Ross issued a statement very similar to what I told the Court.

The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President’s position on this issue, just like the plaintiffs and Your Honor. I do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at this juncture other than what the President has tweeted. But, obviously, as you can imagine, I am doing my absolute best to figure out what’s going on.

I can tell you that I have confirmed that the Census Bureau is continuing with the process of printing the questionnaire without a citizenship question, and that process has not stopped.

One of the plaintiffs’ lawyers asks for a stipulated order that the printing go ahead without the question and a provision that the defendants not communicate the contrary to the public. Judge Hazel is concerned that they are talking about issuing the order to the President.

From another of the plaintiffs’ lawyers:

The President’s tweet has some of the same effects that the addition of the question would in the first place and some of the same effects on the 18-month battle that was just waged over the citizenship question. It leaves the immigrant communities to believe that the Government is still after information that could endanger them. If you add that to the interview that the President did, sharing that his reason for wanting the citizenship question on the form was so that the Government could distinguish between citizens and illegal aliens and how nonsensical that is, it has the effect of leading the public to believe that the Census is not only after that information but is willing to violate some of the provinces of protection that our plaintiff organizations have been trying to reassure communities about.

So we strongly believe that we’re going to need some affirmative commitment, whether it’s through a stipulation or by order of this Court, an affirmative commitment from the Government to counter misinformation wherever in the Government that it comes from, a commitment that they will respond quickly and comprehensively to that kind of misinformation.

Uh-huh, looks like she’s talking about the President.

Joseph Hunt, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division, says that they are looking at a way to come back to the court to justify including the question.

Judge Hazel wants the parties to come back Friday at 2 pm.

I either want a stipulation, as we’ve been discussing, indicating that the citizenship question will not appear on the census, or I want a proposed scheduling order for how we’re going forward on the equal protection claim that’s been remanded to this Court.

And there’s more good stuff. The transcript is definitely worth reading.

I am seeing speculation on Twitter that Trump’s blowup over this decision was the security emergency that caused Vice President Mike Pence to abort his trip to New Hampshire.

Open Thread!

 

UPDATE: I just noticed that I failed to link the transcript and corrected that. Enjoy!

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Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 7:27 pm

    I either want a stipulation, as we’ve been discussing, indicating that the citizenship question will not appear on the census, or I want a proposed scheduling order for how we’re going forward on the equal protection claim that’s been remanded to this Court.

    I expect the judge to disappointed and quite upset when the government provides neither.

  2. 2.

    Mary G

    July 3, 2019 at 7:29 pm

    Disgusting. He gets bolder and more lawless every day and Republicans will back him to the hilt.

  3. 3.

    Sloegin

    July 3, 2019 at 7:31 pm

    Suspecting Trump badly wants to pull an Andy Jackson and tell the SCOTUS to pound sand. President Nutter Butter doesn’t have any people left around him who will say no.

  4. 4.

    boatboy_srq

    July 3, 2019 at 7:34 pm

    Cue the Reichwing “activist judges” whinge in 5… 4… 3…

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    July 3, 2019 at 7:34 pm

    @Mary G

    Old Russian proverb: Durakam zakon ne pisan (yesli pisan, to ne chitan, yesli chitan, to ne ponyat, yesly ponyat, to ne tak).

    There is no law written for fools (if it is written, it is not read, if it is read, it is not understood, if it is understood, then in the wrong way).

  6. 6.

    hueyplong

    July 3, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    My favorite part is when the DoJ lawyer “steps back” and summarizes a long career
    as a non-shill in an attempt to avoid wrath over the clear bad faith of the United States as directed by the shitgibbon.

  7. 7.

    ThresherK

    July 3, 2019 at 7:35 pm

    Judge Hazel: “You are aware, I hope, that crossing your fingers behind your back has no legal effect.”

  8. 8.

    boatboy_srq

    July 3, 2019 at 7:36 pm

    @Mary G: Makes you wonder what trying an entire political party for crimes against humanity would look like.

  9. 9.

    geg6

    July 3, 2019 at 7:43 pm

    Can some of that lighting from the predicted storms in DC hit the right mark during his vanity parade tomorrow, please?

    I’m pissed that I can’t even watch PBS’s Capital Fourth because this fucking asshole ruins absolutely everything.

  10. 10.

    MagdaInBlack

    July 3, 2019 at 7:48 pm

    I was hoping for a post on this, Cheryl. I started seeing reporting on this earlier this afternoon. Thank You.

  11. 11.

    FelonyGovt

    July 3, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    Classic experience of a lawyer who has carefully coached his or her client what to say and what not to say, then the client goes off the reservation, leaving the lawyer stammering in front of the judge.

    But I wonder if we celebrated too soon. And the plaintiffs’ lawyer is right, the more this nonsense is publicized, the more people will be afraid to respond, whether or not the question does get added.

  12. 12.

    feebog

    July 3, 2019 at 7:51 pm

    Cheryl, the link to the transcript is not showing up in my feed. Could you please repost?

  13. 13.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 3, 2019 at 7:52 pm

    Another court decision goes against the Lawbreaker-in-Chief.

    An appeals court upholds a freeze on Pentagon money to build a border wall with Mexico, casting doubt on President Donald Trump’s ability to make good on a signature campaign promise before the 2020 election. https://t.co/y2nrul1VMh

    — Shibley Telhami (@ShibleyTelhami) July 3, 2019

  14. 14.

    TS (the original)

    July 3, 2019 at 7:52 pm

    My first read on this was from Wapo
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-appears-to-contradict-his-own-administration-on-census-citizenship-question/2019/07/03/b720bb94-9da4-11e9-b27f-ed2942f73d70_story.html?utm_term=.42e044cfb4e6

    Reversing course, Trump administration will look for a way to add citizenship question to 2020 Census, DOJ lawyer said

  15. 15.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 3, 2019 at 7:53 pm

    @feebog: See my apologetic update in the OP.

  16. 16.

    TS (the original)

    July 3, 2019 at 7:54 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Another court decision goes against the Lawbreaker-in-Chief

    The law doesn’t apply to trump – he just tweets and suddenly everything is fixed as he wanted.

  17. 17.

    Spanky

    July 3, 2019 at 7:55 pm

    @geg6: Small consolation, but the current weather pattern is hot and humid during the day with t-storms rolling in from the northwest around sunset. So my guess is that everything will go off as “planned” except for the fireworks.

  18. 18.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 7:56 pm

    @Mary G:

    He gets bolder and more lawless every day and Republicans will back him to the hilt.

    I used to read stuff about how he’s got frontal lobe dementia or is mentally unstable and is headed towards a breakdown and get hopeful. Then he’d do an interview or pull some stunt and realize, no, he’s just a fucking asshole and dictator wanna be.

    But lately I truly believe something serious is finally reaching a crisis level, and with no checks on his erratic behaviors by staffers means he’s working himself towards a total meltdown. Every time he travels he gets more and more disorganized and emotionally labile, and i really think Javanka are there to be his full time-mental health caregivers as much as anything else. My first thought about the Pence plane reversal was that is may very well have been some kind of emergent, desperate attempt to stem yet another potential unmasking of just how sick the Wizard is behind the curtain.

    They’re all just pretending right now, hoping for the best. But like all “caregivers”, they’ll eventually burnout and some accident is gonna occur which will prove to the public just how frigging diseased this man’s brain is.

  19. 19.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    July 3, 2019 at 7:57 pm

    @TS (the original):
    That’s not what happens

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    July 3, 2019 at 7:58 pm

    I am starving for competence. Not even brilliance. Just basic fucking workmanlike competence.

    Trump couldn’t find his own ass if you spotted him both hands and a map. Couldn’t organise a two-car funeral if you spotted him the hearse. Couldn’t put together a BLT if you spotted him the B, the L, and the T . . . .

  21. 21.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 8:03 pm

    I assume that Commerce and Justice will slow-walk Donnie’s demand to put it on the Census and that it actually will not be on the Census. But they can’t say that, in so many words, to the Judge where Donnie will hear it, so that’s why this happened today.

    I also assume that they will try to find some other way to get the citizenship information via the Census Bureau (they’re collecting and analyzing data every day – not just every 10 years). And they’ll try to roll that into the Census as some sort of “technical correction” or something. That’s what I would worry about going forward. And that’s why we have to keep the House, take the Senate, and elect Democrats to the White House and every statehouse that we can. They won’t give up trying to tilt the playing field to their exclusive benefit as long as they’re in power.

    But I’m no expert and may very well be wrong.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  22. 22.

    debbie

    July 3, 2019 at 8:04 pm

    @geg6:

    They haven’t preempted it. I’ve seen promos for it.

    Can someone buy this idiot a dictionary? Incorrect and Fake are not synonyms.

  23. 23.

    Kay

    July 3, 2019 at 8:06 pm

    Fox & Friends First
    ‏Verified account
    @FoxFriendsFirst
    Follow Follow @FoxFriendsFirst
    More
    A new poll shows only 45% of men and women in the U.S. are ‘extremely proud’ to be American. That is the lowest amount ever recorded by this poll. What do you think is causing the decline?

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:06 pm

    @boatboy_srq:

    Makes you wonder what trying an entire political party for crimes against humanity would look like.

    We can only hope we get to find out.

  25. 25.

    HAL

    July 3, 2019 at 8:07 pm

    Longing for old time tyranny, like when Michelle Obama wanted kids to eat vegetables.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:07 pm

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Adjust your sarcasm detector.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:08 pm

    @Kay:

    A new poll shows only 45% of men and women in the U.S. are ‘extremely proud’ to be American

    Now we know who still supports Trump.

  28. 28.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 3, 2019 at 8:13 pm

    @Another Scott:

    I assume that Commerce and Justice will slow-walk Donnie’s demand to put it on the Census and that it actually will not be on the Census.

    The lawyer said they’re already printing. Getting the change made now would be a debacle the likes of which DC hasn’t seen until tomorrow.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:14 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The lawyer said they’re already printing.

    Now the multi-million dollar question is did they go to the printer with the illegal question still on the form?

    Were they lying then or now?

  30. 30.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:16 pm

    Trump’s undocumented former employees want to be spared deportation. So they’ve asked him for a meeting.

    This is like watching baby ducks being fed into a wood chipper.

  31. 31.

    TenguPhule

    July 3, 2019 at 8:18 pm

    Workers in mostly red states aren’t seeing minimum-wage hikes, even though local lawmakers passed them

    Alabama, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, Missouri and Wisconsin have all invalidated wage increases passed by cities, costing nearly 350,000 workers a total of $1.5 billion per year, a study finds.

    SMH.

  32. 32.

    Jackie

    July 3, 2019 at 8:18 pm

    @debbie: Not speaking for geg6, but I think she means she won’t watch it because trump is ruining it for her normal enjoyment of watching the 4th celebrations on PBS.

  33. 33.

    cynthia ackerman

    July 3, 2019 at 8:23 pm

    @Mary G:

    I am not encouraged that all of this is backing them into a corner.

  34. 34.

    Kay

    July 3, 2019 at 8:23 pm

    You do wonder at what point people get tired of the chaos and incompetence. They use the census to distribute federal funding to schools. The real number of kids are still going to show up, not the imaginary Trump number. I imagine just about every district in a state like Texas will be harmed. They just won’t stop beating themselves over the head. They’re harming themselves at this point and they won’t stop. I don’t know what to do with people like that.

  35. 35.

    JR

    July 3, 2019 at 8:24 pm

    Trump is looking for scapegoats if/when he loses. Just watch, he can and probably will twist this census question into the old republican voter fraud bullshit. It doesn’t matter that it is irrelevant nor does it matter that it is completely irrational. This is who they are.

  36. 36.

    JPL

    July 3, 2019 at 8:26 pm

    @Kay: Well no shit.. When children are in cages in the border how can you feel pride

  37. 37.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 3, 2019 at 8:26 pm

    Not a good day for the Prez

    BREAKING: Again, @ACLU wins, @realDonaldTrump loses. Court Blocks Trump Administration’s Attempts to Gut Family Planning Program in Response to ACLU Lawsuit https://t.co/9az8tL6LVV via @aclu

    — David Cole (@DavidColeACLU) July 4, 2019

  38. 38.

    jimmiraybob

    July 3, 2019 at 8:30 pm

    @HAL:

    Longing for old time tyranny, like when Michelle Obama wanted kids to eat vegetables.

    When the first shovel of dirt was turned for the new WH vegetable garden i knowd it was time to buy a tricorn hat and a musket and some powder and some balls. I turned and said to the famly, “it’s time to fight for freedom and liberty and the honor of my country!”

    …………is what I imagine the “real Americans” fantasized while standing in line to see Sarah of the North.

  39. 39.

    Kay

    July 3, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    @JPL:

    I feel like you can probably measure the level of pride by how many tanks you have to put on a flatbed trailer to show someone or other that it’s “high”.

    They’re trying too hard.

  40. 40.

    Roger Moore

    July 3, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Republican respect for local control extends only to localities controlled by Republicans.

  41. 41.

    Fair Economist

    July 3, 2019 at 8:36 pm

    Judge Hazel wants the parties to come back Friday at 2 pm.

    That should ruin a couple of lawyers’ Fourth of July celebrations.

  42. 42.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 8:38 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yet more bad news for Donnie on something he really cares about – Twitter:

    Rep. Don Beyer Verified account @RepDonBeyer

    Rep. Don Beyer Retweeted Jonathan O’Connell

    A big deal: the Justice Department’s Inspector General will investigate Trump’s interference in the FBI Headquarters project.

    The presence of his hotel across the street has long been an extremely salient detail. We need answers, and this is a positive development.

    Rep. Don Beyer added,

    Jonathan O’Connell Verified account @OConnellPostbiz

    New: DOJ inspector general will try to get to the bottom of why the FBI under Trump dashed a headquarters plan a decade in the making. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/justice-department-watchdog-to-investigate-decision-to-cancel-fbi-headquarters-plan/2019/07/03/76971d76-9d85-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f49712b69598 …

    3:13 PM – 3 Jul 2019

    It’s kinda obvious that Donnie has been interfering with the redevelopment of the FBI headquarters site. Another volume of impeachment charges is going to be filled with that…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  43. 43.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 3, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    You have a macro that types this, don’t you?

  44. 44.

    NotMax

    July 3, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    It will be the show of a lifetime!

    Not even in a mayfly’s lifetime.

  45. 45.

    Chyron HR

    July 3, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    @Another Scott:

    I assume that Commerce and Justice will slow-walk Donnie’s demand to put it on the Census and that it actually will not be on the Census.

    Oh, no. Big men, big justice department men came to him with tears in their big men eyes, they didn’t even cry when they crushed illegal babies’ skulls, but the big men are crying now, and they said to him “Sir, sir sir sir, sir sir, sir. Sir sir sir sir sir.”

  46. 46.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: I should!

    And one for “We have to fight them every single day!” also too.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  47. 47.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 8:44 pm

    @Kay: Now Kay, that would be a rational, non-tribal thought process. You know that’s a challenge for the MAGA crowd.

    @Another Scott: I

    also assume that they will try to find some other way to get the citizenship information via the Census Bureau (they’re collecting and analyzing data every day – not just every 10 years).

    They could just find a way for the follow up, in-person interviewers to squeeze out the question verbally. Not sure if that’s actually legal, though. The Census laws/rules about what they can and cannot ask go beyond anything Trumptsters can manage to implement through executive branch “discretion”.

    My hubby had a temporary job as a Special US Census worker in 1987 after getting out of the Navy and I can tell you lots of people are already distrustful and amateur paranoid conspiracy theorists about the way Census information could be used against them, immigration status or not. He had the door slammed in his face every day by people worried the government was intruding on their privacy or that someone would find out they had renters in their guest house or were clearly doing illegal shit in their garages, as well as because they were undocumented and suspected he’d call Immigration on them. He also met a lot of really nice and kind people but dang, it was an emotionally rough temp job.

    I feel so sorry for the folks who’ll be doing the follow up work next year.

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    July 3, 2019 at 8:44 pm

    #44: Wrong thread and blockquote fail.

    Le sigh.

  49. 49.

    bbleh

    July 3, 2019 at 8:44 pm

    @TenguPhule: @ThresherK: Lol. I suspect the judge knows perfectly well that he will be disappointed. This whole thing was an exercise in everyone — very much including the DOJ lawyers — avoiding talking about the dead elephant in the living room.

  50. 50.

    Quinerly

    July 3, 2019 at 8:51 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Late to this thread, Cheryl.
    Thanks for all you do around here. Your contributions to Balloon Juice are much appreciated. Have a nice 4th.

  51. 51.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 3, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    @Quinerly: Thanks, Quinerly! You have a nice holiday too!

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    July 3, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    I pretty much agree with your take.
    I’ve had to deal with people in early and late stage Alzheimer’s and in non Alzheimer’s dementia and as a non medical person I’d say that he’s absolutely decompensating. And interesting bit from Wikipedia

    Some who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder may decompensate into persecutory delusions to defend against a troubling reality.

  53. 53.

    Chetan Murthy

    July 3, 2019 at 8:58 pm

    @JPL:

    When children are in cages in the border

    No artist I, but I sure would buy (and wear EVERYWHERE) a t-shirt with “SHAME” in red, white, and blue, perhaps with a little dripping down, onto a picture of these camps, or (shudder) a tastefully-done editorial-cartoon version of the poor dead father and his daughter.

  54. 54.

    Mayim

    July 3, 2019 at 8:59 pm

    As a genealogist, I know that citizenship questions of various wordings have been asked on the US census for much of the last two centuries.

    But there’s no way I want this administration to have that current data ~ and I certainly do NOT trust the current administration to respect the privacy laws/regulations around census information that were enacted after WWII and the use of some aggregate data about heavily Japanese-American neighborhoods.

  55. 55.

    Mike in NC

    July 3, 2019 at 9:02 pm

    This is what happens when you give power to a 74-year-old man-baby who’s never been told NO in his entire rotten, entitled life.

  56. 56.

    Ruckus

    July 3, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    @Kay:
    That’s easy.
    Faux News.
    It is destroying the fabric of life in a democracy, even a representative one. They aren’t the only ones trying, just in case you were thinking that I was giving them full responsibility. The republican party is at fault, Faux News is just one of their mouthpieces and enablers.

  57. 57.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 3, 2019 at 9:07 pm

    @Another Scott: Or, they’re already printing the forms with the citizenship question and if they get a court order otherwise, they’ll just do the Jackson thing. See which dotted line on the org chart the U. S. Marshals will obey–and, after all, there’s no time to reprint the forms without the question. If it sticks, that establishes that they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and there is no law.

  58. 58.

    Ruckus

    July 3, 2019 at 9:08 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    a debacle the likes of which DC hasn’t seen until tomorrow.

    It does seem to get more ridiculous each day…….

  59. 59.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 3, 2019 at 9:10 pm

    @jimmiraybob: as I recall, back in 1776 only 3% of Americans stood up to the tyranny of vegetable gardening

  60. 60.

    AThornton

    July 3, 2019 at 9:11 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I’ll bet a goodly amount of virtual lollipops Trump has brain damage from cocaine abuse to go along with the – completely obvious – NPD.

  61. 61.

    TS (the original)

    July 3, 2019 at 9:12 pm

    @Mayim:

    As a genealogist, I know that citizenship questions of various wordings have been asked on the US census for much of the last two centuries

    Also as a genealogist I know that many of my families lied in answer to these questions. Back then many immigrants were not treated well. Some things stay the same forever.

  62. 62.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 9:14 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Some who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder may decompensate into persecutory delusions to defend against a troubling reality.

    Also, it’s well documented in the literature that people with pre-existing mental/neurological disorders (in Trump’s case, NPD, and Bipolar Disorder, I strongly suspect by his history) have brains that are already damaged and weakened by their illnesses, and are much more susceptible to dementia later in life, often at an earlier age than their peers without those disorders.

    I just keep hoping that 73 is old enough for him to so fully manifest this that it simply cannot be denied anymore.

  63. 63.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 3, 2019 at 9:16 pm

    Ha!
    https://twitter.com/chbooksdc/status/1146423970960482305
    I detect no lies.

  64. 64.

    Mandalay

    July 3, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    @HAL:

    Longing for old time tyranny, like when Michelle Obama wanted kids to eat vegetables.

    I was disappointed to hear from some pundit the other day that one of the first things Trump did in office was to get rid of the vegetable garden. But apparently that was complete BS, and the First Lady is a fan:

    As a mother and as the first lady of this country, Mrs. Trump is committed to the preservation and continuation of the White House Gardens, specifically the first lady’s Kitchen Garden and the Rose Garden…

    …As Politico noted, at the time she briefly spoke with the children about healthy eating habits, saying:

    I’m a big believer in healthy eating because it reflects on your mind and your body … I encourage you to continue to eat a lot of vegetables and fruits, so you grow up healthy and take care of yourself.

    Obviously Mrs. T. can’t ever mention the vegetable garden in public because black reasons, but … plant a seed and watch it grow.

  65. 65.

    geg6

    July 3, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    @debbie:

    But I cannot watch it. If I even glimpse him, my day is ruined. Completely.

  66. 66.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    “Checks and balances”. What a joke.

  67. 67.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 9:21 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Good for them.

    (Don’t read the comments… :-/)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  68. 68.

    SFAW

    July 3, 2019 at 9:21 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Or, they’re already printing the forms with the citizenship question and if they get a court order otherwise, they’ll just do the Jackson thing.

    Yeah, I was thinking there’s a non-zero probability of that being the case.

    But as I was told countless times between mid-2016 and January, 2017, Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell will rein him in when he goes too far.

  69. 69.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 9:21 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Ouch. LOL. Touché

  70. 70.

    rikyrah

    July 3, 2019 at 9:22 pm

    Dessalines (@Kiriende) Tweeted:
    Millions of people who grew up in the DC area have memories of going down to the Washington Mall to watch the fireworks on the 4th. It’s about family, country, and memories. The crowd is diverse and apolitical. Trump is about the turn that tradition into a Klan rally. https://twitter.com/Kiriende/status/1146582608425472000?s=17

  71. 71.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 9:29 pm

    That particular shitshow lasted for what, 24 hours?

    North Korea has accused the US of being “hell-bent on hostile acts”, despite a recent agreement between the two countries to resume nuclear talks.

    Pyongyang’s delegation to the United Nations said on Wednesday that the US was “obsessed with sanctions”.

    It also accused Washington of attempting to “undermine the peaceful atmosphere” on the Korean peninsular.

    The statement comes just days after the leaders of the two countries held a historic meeting.

    US President Donald Trump met his North Korean counterpart, Kim Jong-un, on Sunday in the heavily fortified demilitarised zone (DMZ) which divides the two Koreas.

    He became the first sitting US president to set foot in the North and, after talks that lasted for almost an hour, the pair agreed to set up teams to resume stalled negotiations on denuclearisation.

    But the North Korean statement on Wednesday marked a shift in tone and a return to the angry exchanges that have marred relations between the countries in recent times.
    What did North Korea say?

  72. 72.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 9:30 pm

    @AThornton:

    I’ll bet a goodly amount of virtual lollipops Trump has brain damage from cocaine abuse to go along with the – completely obvious – NPD.

    Oh HELL yeah. That is incredibly likely, and combined with Bipolar II it would have driven his aggressive, rapey sexual behaviors.

    Also, in my experience, when people stop using after being heavily into it and other stimulants, they can really struggle with attention, focus, sleep, cognition, and complex thinking, kind of a secondary form of ADD. It would explain a whole lot about how he behaves not.

  73. 73.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 9:31 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: “They” – the people in the trenches – work in Suitland, MD:

    The U.S. Census Bureau has been headquartered in Suitland, Md. since 1942, and currently employs about 4,285 staff members.

    Suitland is in PG county, in 2010 Suitland was ~ 92% African American. PG county is the richest African American county in the USA.

    I seriously doubt that people who work there, who swear an oath to the Constitution like all federal workers, who can read the news like all the rest of us, will roll over and put an illegal question on the Census.

    We’ll see.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  74. 74.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    Finally some common sense.

    An Alabama district attorney has dropped manslaughter charges against a pregnant woman whose unborn child died after she was shot in the stomach.

    Marshae Jones, 28, was allegedly shot by a co-worker while five months pregnant.

    She was charged after police alleged that she had started the fight, endangering the child’s life.

    “There are no winners in this case, only losers in the sad ordeal,” said prosecutor Lynneice Washington.

    Women’s rights advocates had expressed outrage over the charges against Ms Jones.

    The decision was announced by the Jefferson County District Attorney in a press conference on Wednesday.

  75. 75.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 3, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    @Another Scott: you left out “Grr…”

  76. 76.

    Mandalay

    July 3, 2019 at 9:34 pm

    We are absolutely moving forward, as we must, because of the importance of the answer to this question.

    While suggestions here about dementia and lawlessness may be valid, Trump is simply making a very smart political move. His tweet is deliberately vague but assertive (“We are absolutely moving forward…“), and he knows that he has very strong public support on the issue:

    In a Harvard CAPS/Harris poll released Tuesday, 67 percent of respondents said the question, “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” should be allowed on the census. That number included about 88 percent of Republicans, 52 percent of Democrats, and 63 percent of independents agreed.

    He wins the political argument whatever the courts say, and it is a great wedge issue for him during the campaign.

  77. 77.

    Ruckus

    July 3, 2019 at 9:34 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    For the average person that’s pretty much what happens. However this ass is far less than average. He has people that are willing to lie, cheat and yes steal for a lot less than the presidency. They’ve got one of their own sitting on his gold painted throne. And they have no problem protecting him. I mean how would it look if he was declared unstable by one of them or an actual doctor?

  78. 78.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 3, 2019 at 9:35 pm

    @plato: This is pretty typical for North Korea. The BBC piece doesn’t really get at it, but a big part of this is that North Korea is trying to drive a wedge between Trump and his advisors. I’d dig up the letter itself, but it’s the end of the day and I’m tired.

  79. 79.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 9:35 pm

    @Steve in the ATL: I’m having trouble with the macro.

    Let’s see…

    ⍎’⎕’,∊N⍴⊂S←’←⎕←(3=T)∨M∧2=T←⊃+/(V⌽¨⊂M),(V⊖¨⊂M),(V,⌽V)⌽¨(V,V←1 ¯1)⊖¨⊂M’

    Workee?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  80. 80.

    VOR

    July 3, 2019 at 9:35 pm

    Even if Trump defies a clear Supreme Court decision, he knows there is no way he would be impeached. The Republicans are such cowards and will absolutely put Party over country. Even if Trump left office they would still live in fear of a tweet summoning the deplorables. Trump has to be discredited, not just dismissed.

    Back in 2008 McCain had the slogan “country over party”. They thought it was an attack on Obama, but I saw it as pure sarcasm since nobody on the Republican side was putting country over party, not even St. McCain.

  81. 81.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 9:36 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Don’t read the comments… :-/

    I felt the same way until I started looking at the commenters profiles…LOTS of trolls botting under that post.

  82. 82.

    debbie

    July 3, 2019 at 9:36 pm

    @geg6:

    But Carole King assures me you can watch safely!

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 9:37 pm

    @Mandalay: Yeah and something like 92% want mandatory background checks for gun purchases. That and $10 will get one lunch at Wendy’s.

    People are polarized about Donnie. His tweets aren’t changing any minds or driving up prospective turnout.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    debbie

    July 3, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    @plato:

    Good. Now charge the woman with the damn gun. ?

  85. 85.

    Ella in New Mexico

    July 3, 2019 at 9:41 pm

    @Ruckus:

    I mean how would it look if he was declared unstable by one of them or an actual doctor?

    Yes, that IS a problem.

    Can we pray the DC Press Corp finally catches him on camera taking his daily shit in the Michelle Obama Vegetable Garden?

  86. 86.

    Chetan Murthy

    July 3, 2019 at 9:43 pm

    @plato: Heh, Li’l Kim read _The Art of the Deal_! Get the other guy to give up whatever he is able; then kick over the table to start the negotiation again from these (now new) starting-positions! It’s just like how Shitler stiffs contractors!

    Ha!

  87. 87.

    Mandalay

    July 3, 2019 at 9:43 pm

    @Another Scott:

    His tweets aren’t changing any minds…

    Assumes facts not in evidence. While his plan may be unpopular here on BJ, he already has 52% of Democrats agreeing with him on this issue.

    Just because you and I think it sucks doesn’t mean everyone does.

  88. 88.

    Mike in NC

    July 3, 2019 at 9:45 pm

    @plato: Fat Bastard will schedule three more summits with Lil Kim and have squat to show for it in the end. What a fucking maroon.

  89. 89.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 9:47 pm

    @Mandalay: So some non-trivial number of Democrats are going to vote for Donnie because of a Census question? You really believe that?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  90. 90.

    The Lodger

    July 3, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: No lies? You must have skipped the comments.

  91. 91.

    Mandalay

    July 3, 2019 at 9:52 pm

    @plato:

    Finally some common sense.

    Sadly no. The only reason the charges were dropped because some lawyer who had nothing to do with the case had the temerity to point out that the charge made against the pregnant woman was explicitly not allowed under Alabama law:

    Jones’ charge appears to contradict a portion of Alabama’s Criminal Code. Though the code does include “fetal homicide” language, which defines an “unborn child in utero” as a human being, regardless of viability, the code also states that the prosecution of “any woman with respect to her unborn child” should not be permitted under criminal homicide charges like manslaughter.

    “It’s the plain language of the statute,” said Andrew Skier, a Montgomery-based criminal defense attorney.

    So common sense didn’t come into it. The only question is whether the DA’s office was pulling a fast one until they got caught, or was hopelessly incompetent. I suppose “both” is a third possibility.

  92. 92.

    Mandalay

    July 3, 2019 at 10:05 pm

    @Another Scott:

    So some non-trivial number of Democrats are going to vote for Donnie because of a Census question?

    I didn’t say that; knock it off with your straw man bullshit. But Trump has the podium and he has very strong public support for his position, including 63% of independents.

    If you honestly can’t see that as a potential problem for his Democratic opponent I really can’t help you.

  93. 93.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 10:05 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: What advisors? All the dumbfuck has around him are asskissers, toadies and grifters.

  94. 94.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 10:07 pm

    @Another Scott: You left out the square root.

  95. 95.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 10:10 pm

    I wrote an article on how Trump, as president, would use spectacle to further his authoritarian agenda.I wrote it in February 2016.Now we await the parade… https://t.co/OylAdcJdMw— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) July 3, 2019

  96. 96.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 10:12 pm

    @Mandalay:

    Trump remains underwater in most 2020 battleground states, according to Morning Consult:New Hampshire: -23 net approvalMichigan: -15Wisconsin: -14Iowa: -13Pennsylvania -9Arizona: -7Ohio: -6North Carolina: -3Florida: -3Indiana: +1— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 4, 2019

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 10:28 pm

    @Mandalay: 90% support background checks for gun purchases. So, therefore, Republicans would never get elected without supporting background checks for gun purchases.

    It’s just logic.

    In Mandalay’s world, anyway.

    (groucho-roll-eyes.gif)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    Chetan Murthy

    July 3, 2019 at 10:37 pm

    @Another Scott: I’d bet a tidy sum that most of the people polled don’t actually understand the purpose of the Decennial Census, nor the constitutional requirements it must adhere to. And that at least Dems, once educated, would change their opinion pretty firmly. After all, we’re the ones who, when the facts change, change our minds.

  99. 99.

    MoCA Ace

    July 3, 2019 at 10:42 pm

    Makes you wonder what trying an entire political party for crimes against humanity would look like.

    Justice?

  100. 100.

    mad citizen

    July 3, 2019 at 10:44 pm

    Stephen Colbert: “It is a well known fact that reality has liberal bias.”

  101. 101.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 10:48 pm

    Centre Court, strawberries and cream … Wimbledon is famed for tradition but one is now missing – the use of ‘Miss’ and ‘Mrs’ at the end of games.

    Marital status prefixes for female players have largely been scrapped by tournament organisers to bring parity with the men’s game.

    That means no more “Game, Miss …” or “Game, set and match, Mrs…”

    “We’ve got to move with the times,” said Alexandra Willis, a spokesperson for the All England Club.

    “Hopefully we surprise people with the way we do that.”

  102. 102.

    J R in WV

    July 3, 2019 at 10:51 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Also, it’s well documented in the literature that people with pre-existing mental/neurological disorders (in Trump’s case, NPD, and Bipolar Disorder, I strongly suspect by his history) have brains that are already damaged and weakened by their illnesses, and are much more susceptible to dementia later in life, often at an earlier age than their peers without those disorders.

    I think a day like tomorrow, for a guy like Trump, hot, humid, still, with stuff going wrong, like sparse attendance obvious to even Trump, he may well have a lot of trouble delivering even his standard racist-fascist stump speech, let alone sticking to the speech written for him to deliver on July 4th.

    Is it too much to hope for that he breaks down and is unable to speak coherently at all? It has to happen eventually, I just hope it’s on live TV for all to see.

  103. 103.

    mad citizen

    July 3, 2019 at 10:54 pm

    I know it’s fun to speculate on the dude’s mental decline, but I thought he’s been giving interviews lately–wasn’t he on Tucker Carlson the other night? I try to stay away from consuming any of his recordings for more than a few seconds, but I have to presume he’s been sounding pretty much the same as ever.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    July 3, 2019 at 10:54 pm

    @plato:

    Those numbers are heartening.

  105. 105.

    jl

    July 3, 2019 at 10:55 pm

    Some commenters above said the citizenship question appeared regularly on the census. But that’s a matter of opinion, I think.
    The questions was asked on the census itself, for everyone, in 9 out of the 23 decennial censuses. First in 1820, then in 1830 and from 1880 to 1950. I don’t think it can be called a regular feature.

    And for the obsession with ‘what would the Founders do?’ bunch, a citizenship question was not on the first three censuses, 1790 to 1810. So, I guess they understood the primary purpose of the census is to count persons.

    And… just heard a news report on rumors that Trump thinks he can over rule SCOTUS on census with an executive order. I don’t know how that would work. Looks like Trumpsters cannot manage or be bothered to come up with a cover story that will satisfy a friendly SCOTUS.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    July 3, 2019 at 10:56 pm

    @plato:

    I assume she also points out when she was wrong.

  107. 107.

    Jay

    July 3, 2019 at 10:58 pm

    @Mandalay:

    He’s a dumbfuck Christofacist Misogynist and it’s not the first time he’s pulled this sort of bs.

    Pleasant Grove Police Lt. Danny Reid.

    The cases have sometimes put police at odds with doctors who argued that prosecuting pregnant addicts discourages them from seeking treatment they need. But in each of those cases, Lt. Danny Reid of the Pleasant Grove police, who serves as a spokesman of the 16-officer department, gave passionate public statements about the need to protect the rights of the unborn.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.canada.com/news/world/you-have-to-go-by-the-law-alabama-defends-arrest-of-woman-whose-fetus-died-in-shooting/wcm/94c88056-1cd3-43a0-816c-3cb2d70da79c/amp/

  108. 108.

    Another Scott

    July 3, 2019 at 11:00 pm

    @Chetan Murthy: The questions seem designed to put people in two camps. (78 page .pdf)

    p. 13 Top issues facing the country:

    Immigration (!) 42%
    Health Care 38%
    Terrorism / National Security 23%
    Economy and Jobs 22%
    Environment / Climate Change 20%
    Insane Russian Puppet Destroying the Federal Government 0% (not asked)

    What does “Immigration” mean in the context of holding children in cages, ignoring laws about asylum, and all the rest?? Someone who wants to turn the Rio Grande into a moat and someone who wants Donnie to stop torturing people and obey the law could both pick “Immigration” but mean completely different things by it.

    p. 67 – “Do you think U.S. immigration authorities have done a good job, fair job, or poor job dealing with children of illegal immigrants in custody?”

    WTF??! How about “Behaving like fascist monsters”? Shouldn’t that be a choice?

    (sigh)

    Polls should be specific and not nebulous. Harris polls seem particularly bad about things like this.

    Etc.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    jimmiraybob

    July 3, 2019 at 11:12 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Some who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder may decompensate into persecutory delusions to defend against a troubling reality.

    Could a particularly severe delusional episode cause a vice president to divert from plans to return to the WH? You know, because panic.

  110. 110.

    Jay

    July 3, 2019 at 11:13 pm

    @plato:

    After the Serena Williams mess, they’ve decided they need a Brand Aid to bring Wimbledon into the 1970’s.

  111. 111.

    plato

    July 3, 2019 at 11:17 pm

    @Baud: Of all the pundits out there, she is the one who is/has been more right than wrong. Also, too, not seeing how tonya harding someone who is clearly on our side and someone who has been bravely taking on the thug and his thug minions on teevee helps us.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    July 3, 2019 at 11:22 pm

    @plato:

    I don’t follow her but I recall her saying some dumb things early on. If I’m mistaken, I apologize to her.

  113. 113.

    john fremont

    July 3, 2019 at 11:32 pm

    @HAL: And President Obama decreed we use our tire pressure gauges

  114. 114.

    schrodingers_cat

    July 3, 2019 at 11:36 pm

    @jl: CIS is a known anti-immigrant hate group according to SPLC why are you linking to their website?

  115. 115.

    joel hanes

    July 3, 2019 at 11:36 pm

    @mad citizen:

    I have to presume he’s been sounding pretty much the same as ever

    In my judgement, he’s much less coherent than he was in 2017.
    Much.

  116. 116.

    Steve in the ATL

    July 3, 2019 at 11:44 pm

    @plato: of all the pundits in all the Twitter feeds on all the Internet, she shows up on mine.

  117. 117.

    jl

    July 4, 2019 at 12:35 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I did not know that. Sorry.
    Here is a list from pbs
    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/23/630562915/see-200-years-of-twists-and-turns-of-census-citizenship-questions

    Edit: Apparently too late to request deletion. Maybe a frontpager will see and see my request to delete it.

  118. 118.

    Cheryl Rofer

    July 4, 2019 at 8:21 am

    @jl: Deleted

  119. 119.

    Honus

    July 4, 2019 at 10:27 am

    @TenguPhule: the judge will get on or the other or there will be some very sore DOJ attorneys. Its much harder for a practicing lawyer to stiff a federal judge to his face than to ignore congress.

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