Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Innocent people do not delay justice.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

“Alexa, change the president.”

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Military / Kurds Betrayed, Lindsay Graham Hardest Hit

Kurds Betrayed, Lindsay Graham Hardest Hit

by | 169 Comments

This post is in: ,

It says something to me that of the several dozen people with whom I served in the army back in the day and every single person I know who served in the military, not one person thinks betraying the Kurds is a good idea and uniformly think of it as a disaster and something that would previously be unthinkable:

urkey sent warplanes and troops into northeastern Syria on Wednesday in a military operation aimed at flushing out an American-backed militia, Turkish and Syrian officials said.

The Turkish attack came amid a flurry of confusing policy statements from the White House, which on Sunday acquiesced to the operation, agreeing to move American forces out of the way, but on Wednesday, hours after it began, condemned it.

“The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday.

Turkish fighter jets streaked through the sky over Syrian towns, while explosions from artillery shells boomed, causing traffic jams of terrified civilians fleeing south in trucks piled high with their possessions and children.

Subscribe for original insights, commentary and discussions on the major news stories of the week, from columnists Max Fisher and Amanda Taub.

After about six hours of airstrikes, Turkish troops and their Syrian rebel allies crossed the border late Wednesday, the Turkish Defense Ministry, beginning a ground offensive.

In a normal, sane, world, this would be the end of Trump, even among his diehards. I doubt we will hear a peep, though, even from the evangelicals, as Kurdish Christians are slaughtered at the hands of Erdogan.

But, as Trump stated, where were the Kurds at Normandy, or Pearl Harbor, for that matter? Or Vietnam. So fuck them, really.

Reader Interactions

169Comments

  1. 1.

    David Evans

    BBC reporters on News 24 can usually find something to say. But after reading out the “Normandy” quote they were literally speechless.

  2. 2.

    Kent

    Trump criticizes *the Kurds* for not helping America in WWII, “they didn’t help us with Normandy.” (!!!)

    The Israelis weren’t with us in Normandy either.* Or in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, or any other damn place where American troops have ever fought. But that doesn’t keep Trump from sticking his head all the way up Bibi’s ass.

    *and yes I know Israel wasn’t a country in 1944. Neither was Kurdistan.

  3. 3.

    Just One More Canuck

    And they didn’t help fight the Germans at Pearl Harbour

    Christ, what an asshole

  5. 5.

    Chris

    In a society that can’t hold a fucking football game without turning it into a paean to the glory and honor of THE TROOPS!!! it remains staggering how free people feel to shit and piss on the people who do the bulk of the fighting and dying against America’s enemies.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    Someone must have said the word ‘Normandy’, and after rattling around in T’s brain for a while, it spilled out. Random association.

  9. 9.

    jl

    Trump also claimed that the Kurds were too expensive and we spent a huge outsize amount of money supporting them [100 percent false by any sane standard].
    And, Turkey will pay a catastrophic price [how?] if it is not ‘fair’ to the Kurds, by standards the US will make up as things develop [senseless].

    Ridiculous. The GOP stands behind this toxic fool.

  10. 10.

    rk

    Every day I ask myself “is it possible to loath a man so much and can I hate him more today than yesterday”? The answer is yes.

  12. 12.

    Kent

    Why are people not labeling this as cowardice. If Obama did this the outrage machine would be screaming 24/7 about how America does not “cut and run”. I hope to got there are some good photojournalists over there who can document this because we are going to get some new images reminiscent of the famous final helicopters leaving the embassy compound in Saigon.

  13. 13.

    mrmoshpotato

    @rk:

    Every day I ask myself “is it possible to loath a man so much and can I hate him more today than yesterday”? The answer is yes.

    LOL Same.

    But I can’t even bring myself to mock him on this “Normandy” shit.

    This is definitely when we start looking for a retirement home for Gramps.

  16. 16.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: not only were the Germans not helpful to us at Normandy, but one could almost argue that they were actively sabotaging our efforts there. Angela Merkel has blood on her hands.

    Why yes, I was a history major. Why do you ask?

  19. 19.

    RAVEN

    Justice Department announced arrest of Defense Intelligence Agency employee Henry Kyle Frese for allegedly leaking sensitive information

  20. 20.

    Patricia Kayden

    Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. How is Trump in a position to criticize anyone for not fighting when he got out of military service via fake bone spurs? Zero self awareness.

  21. 21.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Cacti: or Prescott Bush. Isn’t it treason to finance the war effort of the people we are at war with?

    The GOP loves its crime families.

  26. 26.

    Mary G

    What’s the problem? He said this:

    As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over…— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 7, 2019

    I’m sure he’ll demolish the Turkish economy by the weekend.//

    Words fail, lips so tightly pursed.

  28. 28.

    Rommie

    By tomorrow Twitler will be telling us how awful the Kurds really are and how our Heroic NATO allies are just taking out more Bad Guys.

  30. 30.

    GregB

    Trump is also going Scarecrow by unleashing the inmates of Arkham on Gotham by gleefully declaring that all of the ISIS detainees held in Syria will be going to Europe.

    I assume this is an actual plan to push the anti-immigrant/Muslim hysteria and create more fascists.

    Dark times.

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    @hueyplong

    Not a single solitary Kurd at the Bowling Green Massacre.

    ;)

    More seriously, while there are plenty of commonalities there also are schisms among (and within) Iraqi Kurd, Turkish Kurd, Iranian Kurd and Syrian Kurd populations.

  34. 34.

    trnc

    “The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday.

    Wow! You can really feel the manliness coming off that statement. I bet Erdogan stopped dead in his tracks and called for an immediate retreat of his troops. If anyone sees them overrunning Kurds, it must be fake news!

  39. 39.

    rikyrah

    I knew our luck would run out. I just didn’t know what losing our luck would look like.
    Now, I know-genocide ???

    Those responsible for Dolt45 will NEVER EVER BE FORGIVEN ? ?

  44. 44.

    Mary G

    Heartbreaking thread by a Fox News (!) reporter who spoke to an American soldier in Syria:

    I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken."I am ashamed for the first time in my career."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    She says the Kurds are as close to Westerners as anyone in the Middle East, that atrocities are happening, but the Kurds are sticking to their fighting and guarding ISIS prisons positions still, hoping for American help to come back. She ends with:

    This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    We don’t deserve their loyalty. God.

  45. 45.

    lurker dean

    from a fox news national security correspondent of all people. there’s an entire thread. it’s bleak. this is judas-level betrayal.

    I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken."I am ashamed for the first time in my career."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

  46. 46.

    Ladyraxterinok

    And where was Turkey at Normandy, Pearl Harbor, Vieynam???

    And didn’t Turkey fight on Germany’s side in WWI??

    Trump is an ignoramus. So are his supporters.

    And they are all proud of their ignorance!

  47. 47.

    sanjeevs

    Trump said: “Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe. That’s where they want to go; they want to go back to their homes, but Europe didn’t want them from us.”

    The president said the relationship between the US and its European allies had not been “reciprocal” when it came to combating the Islamic State.

    Trump as usual is giving the game away here.
    Trump and Putin want to recreate the conditions of 2014 and 2015 in Europe where Middle East refugees flocked to Europe whilst Middle East terrorists created atrocities.
    The conditions that helped lead to the rise of the pro-Putin far right in Europe.

  48. 48.

    Steeplejack

    @MattF:
    Lidicul’s fatuous justification:

    Whether that banner was physically or digitally put there is irrelevant – the statement is MADE, the public outrage is REAL and the message is spread.

    If you're following me, I'd think you'd already understand that.

    — Paul Lidicul (@PaulLidicul) October 9, 2019

    And he scarpers from the criticism:

    I don't have time for this… 3… 2… 1… BUY bye now ;)

    — Paul Lidicul (@PaulLidicul) October 9, 2019

  49. 49.

    JaySinWA

    He said somebody wrote a powerful article that mentioned Normandy and other battles. Has anyone found something that this riff is from? Somewhere in the fevered swamps? Or is this one of the “sir” moments, attributing nonsense to his imaginary columnist?
    ETA I see @Cheryl Rofer: found the culprit.

  50. 50.

    Repatriated

    @trnc:

    “The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday

    In other words, we’re too weak to stop them.

    Great.

  51. 51.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Were were the Kurds at Valley Forge? Absent

    Agua Nueva 1835? Absent without leave!

    At Fort Pillow in 1864? 16 MIA!

    Winded Knee? The same?

    My Lai? Not a Kurd in sight.

  52. 52.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Didn’t Ford build panzers for German army and IBM supply method and equipment to Nazis to locate Jewish ancestry and track down people with it?

  54. 54.

    waspuppet

    @Repatriated: Does anyone else in that “administration” ever make statements? Or is he too much of a diva and drama queen to let anyone else do anything?

  57. 57.

    Chris

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I was wondering how long it would take before the “they’re all commies anyway” defense of genocide would come in.

    Rojava is running, or claims to be running, as an anarcho-socialist state. The minute I first read that about them, I was like “there is no way in hell this story doesn’t end with the West throwing them to the dogs.” In virtually any other context, this is the kind of movement that has us all screaming “ACK! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURY IT IN THE DESERT! WEAR GLOVES!”

    I’m, if anything, kind of surprised that it took them this long to get around to making this argument (though the utter ignorance of the region probably contributed – there’s lots of stories of good God-bothering Christian fundamentalists traveling to Syria to fight the Evil Muslims, only to discover to their shock that all their Kurdish friends are left-wing feminist devil-worshipers).

  58. 58.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Raven:

    Minor point but it wasn’t.

    That article is from the NY Post, it’s right wing historical revisionism.

    The photo is an easy one to trace and it always has been. It was taken by Hugh van Es at the Pittman Apartments, 22 Gia Long Street.

    Pittman housed USAID and CIA employees. It is those who are being evacuated. The Huey belonged to Air America (CIA).

    So while it is not actually of the embassy, it’s certainly of US officials and employees making a panicked departure from Saigon.

    I don’t quite understand how the Post being ignorant of this makes the Saigon evacuation any less of a shambolic rout that left tens of thousands of Vietnamese loyalists to the tender mercies of the North, or how that rout now suddenly becomes honorable as a result of that photo.

  60. 60.

    Mary G

    Bloomberg has another leak about something else:

    President Donald Trump pressed then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to help persuade the Justice Department to drop a criminal case against an Iranian-Turkish gold trader who was a client of Rudy Giuliani, according to three people familiar with the 2017 meeting in the Oval Office.

    Tillerson refused, arguing it would constitute interference in an ongoing investigation of the trader, Reza Zarrab, according to the people. They said other participants in the Oval Office were shocked by the request.

    The House staff responsible for typing up the Articles of Impeachment are all going to have severe carpel tunnel disease.

  63. 63.

    Ryan

    What is a Normandy? What was WWII? Where were they recently? Were they there with us in Iraq, against ISIS? what is the discount rate on being there for Normandy? Were they even free to act in the 1940s given the British and French?

  70. 70.

    Repatriated

    @debbie:

    AND YET HE SET IT IN MOTION!!!

    That’s just his “great and unmatched wisdom” in action.

    So much wising we’ll get tired of all that wising.

  71. 71.

    Mike in NC

    When our Great Patriotic Minutemen were busy securing the airports during the Revolutionary War, where were those damn rotten Kurds?

    Fat Bastard is ready for his straightjacket fitting.

  76. 76.

    delk

    Probably overheard someone calling him Norma Desmond and that got rattling around the part of his brain not occupied by Obama and Hillary.

  77. 77.

    Mnemosyne

    Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you were only kidding, Lindsey. Sucks for you, but sucks WAY worse for the thousands of people whose murders you enabled.

  78. 78.

    Timurid

    Saladin didn’t defend Cahokia against the Algonquin horde, so the Kurds can fuck right off…

  79. 79.

    Jay

    Keep in mind, that this is the YPG.

    They were surrounded by ISIL in Kobane, for weeks, with Turkey blocking all help and actively aiding ISIL, not only did they not give up, destroying ISIL VBIED’s and T-64 tanks with sheer heroism,

    They sent flying columns across ISIL lines into Iraq, to rescue and evacuate the Yazidi from Mt. Sinjar, with only assistance from the PPK, while everyone else, either tried to stop them or ran away.

    The Turks are using their proxy Radical Islamic Terrorists, ( including rebranded ISIL and al Quida) as cannon fodder, so don’t count Rojova out yet.

    It’s past time that the rest of the Coelition realizes that in Royjova, the Turks, ISIL and the US are the enemy.

  84. 84.

    patrick II

    @opiejeanne:
    I would bet, if a reporter asked him ” Italy didn’t help us at Normandy either, why are they our friends?” He wouldn’t know the answer, or the basis for the question for that matter.

  85. 85.

    gene108

    @Kent:

    From what I have seen on Twitter right-wingers are all about bringing the troops home, let the murderous Muslims murder each (why should we care?), and end these endless wars by bringing all troops home & let the chips fall where they may.

    I think they will believe anything to defend Trump.

  87. 87.

    Jay

    @gene108:

    And yet I’m old enough to remember when they said that we had to fight them there, before they could take over all the overpasses in the USA.

  91. 91.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @RAVEN:

    Did I say that? It wasn’t the fucking embassy.

    Did I say you said it? I said it was the fucking NY Post.

    Why even link to a Trumpist rag pushing a revisionist agenda without adding some suitable mockery?

  93. 93.

    Jay

    This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us." "They are not abandoning our side (yet)."The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

  96. 96.

    BC in Illinois

    Daniel Dale
    @ddale8
    Trump says he goes to Dover Air Force base to greet slain soldiers “when I can.” Telling a detailed story, he says that families smile when they see him and thank him for coming, and he thought they were taking the death “so well,” but then the coffin comes and they “scream.”
    3:37 PM · Oct 9, 2019

    The man is devoid of human feeling.

  97. 97.

    cain

    @Jay:

    And yet I’m old enough to remember when they said that we had to fight them there, before they could take over all the overpasses in the USA.

    We had to fight them over here before they come here and fighting with us in traffic.

  99. 99.

    gene108

    @patrick II:

    would bet, if a reporter asked him ” Italy didn’t help us at Normandy either, why are they our friends?” He wouldn’t know the answer, or the basis for the question for that matter.

    You will never catch Trump speechless. He’ll ramble in vague terms that mean nothing. Maybe a big burly Italian man came to him, with tears in his eyes and said, “ Sir, Italy will die without American friendship. You save our country. Only you, sir, can save us by being friends”.

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    Hey for giggles, just picture if Hillz had betrayed the Kurds like this, and THEN added in the “Normandy” comment afterwards.

    I know, I know…

  101. 101.

    BC in Illinois

    @BC in Illinois:
    And a response:

    “When I can.”

    Number of times Trump has visited Dover AFB since becoming president,
    acc. to @NPR
    : 2.

    Number of times Trump has visited a Trump golf course since becoming president, acc. to @kylegriffin1
    : 235.

  102. 102.

    Jay

    “It is in your interest to negotiate with the Syrian state and come to an understanding.”“The Americans will sell you out in any souq [marketplace], at any time,” he said. t.co/v1pTEsgBHr— Alison Meuse (@AliTahmizian) October 9, 2019

  104. 104.

    CarolPW

    So yesterday there was a guest editorial in the WaPo by Fahrettin Altun, Turkey’s communications director. The first sentence is “During a phone call with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday, President Trump agreed to transfer the leadership of the counter-Islamic State campaign to Turkey. The Turkish military, together with the Free Syrian Army, will cross the Turkish-Syrian border shortly.”

    Has anyone talked about this “transfer of leadership” or did no one one read it? Seems pretty horrifying to me.

  105. 105.

    Dave P

    I’ve long believed that the only thing that would cause Trump’s base to turn against him would be if he was caught in bed with two boys named Ahmed and Julio. But I’m beginning to think the wingnuts have guzzled so much Fox News Kool-Aid that even that wouldn’t cause a dent in his support.

  107. 107.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    Note the slam against Adam Schiff. That’s not just random — Schiff has pissed off the Turkish government more than once by pushing for official recognition of the Armenian Genocide. His constituency is heavily Armenian American, so it’s a big deal locally.

  108. 108.

    cain

    @Dave P:

    I’ve long believed that the only thing that would cause Trump’s base to turn against him would be if he was caught in bed with two boys named Ahmed and Julio. But I’m beginning to think the wingnuts have guzzled so much Fox News Kool-Aid that even that wouldn’t cause a dent in his support.

    It wouldn’t. They’ll laugh because it would annoy the libs. They’ll keep voting for this man because it pisses them off.

    We are at the stage of when a man shoots himself in front of a doctor and laughs because he frustrated the doctor from saving him.

  111. 111.

    Kraux Pas

    @Jay:

    So much hope. So many prayers. So little action.

    I’m still waiting for the day a massacre occurs and the attacker has “thoughts” and “prayers” painted on the side of a pair of weapons, thus rendering the usual post-massacre pablum even more insensitive to the victims.

  112. 112.

    Jay

    BTW, the YPG is not going to “slaughter” the 70,000 ISIL prisoners they are holding, ( some 10,000 fighters, some 2,000 of whom are Westerners, some 60,000 women and children).

    What will happen is when they can no longer afford to guard them, they will release them, unarmed.

    Some, Turkey will allow to pass through their territory to return home, and form new ISIL terrorist cells, not just in the West, but across Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

    The Syrian and Iraqi ISIL members will be rebranded as FSA, and will be armed and supported again by Turkey.

  115. 115.

    Jay

    This weak WH statement is a bright green light for a Turkish invasion. It also makes no sense. It says Turkey is “now responsible” for ISIS prisoners. But those prisoners are in an SDF-guarded camp 230km away from the Turkish attack zone. pic.twitter.com/yEjdtwIiUK— Brett McGurk (@brett_mcgurk) October 9, 2019

  117. 117.

    Kraux Pas

    It also makes no sense. It says Turkey is “now responsible” for ISIS prisoners. But those prisoners are in an SDF-guarded camp 230km away from the Turkish attack zone.

    Of course. Would we ever expect Trump to pay more than lip service to any concern that doesn’t directly involve him?

    He heard people complaining about the potential freeing of ISIS prisoners and decided to tweet about it as though it were fait accompli and probably envisions a battle front that is no more than a small contingent of Kurd soldiers (maybe a few hundred, equivalent to the biggest crowd he’s ever seen) amassed around a prison labeled ISIS. So of course he thinks “what’s the big deal?”

  118. 118.

    Mary G

    Cool history thread:

    Thirty years ago, an admirer of Václav Havel expressed his appreciation of the dissident playwright on his 53rd birthday by submitting a glowing tribute to the birthday greetings section of the Czechoslovak Communist Party official paper Rudé Právo. (Thread) pic.twitter.com/bZEmVGPH5I— Paula Kennedy (@PMKennedy123) October 5, 2019

    You never know what will overturn a tyrant.

  120. 120.

    Mnemosyne

    @Roger Moore:

    And I’m sure their Russian mob buddies hate Schiff because of his successful prosecutions of their comrades. So many reasons to hate him. ?

  122. 122.

    Raoul

    @Kent: I think calling Trump weak is a key lever. It happens to be stunningly true. But it also gets at his one remaining power. He still makes GOPers jump. They have to understand that WE understand that Trump is a classic, cowardly bully.

    He can tweet a mean streak like no body’s business. But he can’t stomach actual conflict. He collapses and makes terrible, awful ‘deals’. The jig is up, and it has to be damned obvious.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    Scoop: Blizzard employees walked out of work yesterday over the company's decision to ban a pro-Hong-Kong professional Hearthstone player. They held an all-day protest at the Orc statue in the center of the company's Irvine campus. t.co/bWNbMiovws— Blake Montgomery ? (@blakersdozen) October 9, 2019

  124. 124.

    Jay

    New details on the Halle shooting. The shooter live-streamed his attack to Twitch. It was taken down, but not before it had been capped and shared on white-supremacist Telegram channels to tens of thousands of users who hailed the shooter as a saint. t.co/VCYHHIbFLw— Brandy Zadrozny (@BrandyZadrozny) October 9, 2019

  125. 125.

    Jay

    #BREAKING -So sad. Westchester's Holocaust memorial, the Garden of Remembrance, was just vandalized with hate symbols. Latimer- "We are enraged by this act and heartbroken that individuals would target members of our community on the most solemn day in their tradition" @News12WC— Tara Rosenblum (@tararosenblum) October 8, 2019

  126. 126.

    Jeffro

    I guess whether or not allies were “with us at Normandy” is the new standard.

    How exciting for Japan, South Korea, India, Italy, the Scandinavian countries (BUT NOT FINLAND THATS DIFFERENT), Australia (I probably have that one wrong), and also Covefefe-Land and Wirchistan.

    You were either us, or the Brits, or Canadian, or that’s it. So F U, Kurds.

    It must be so soothing to be a wingnut and just amazeballs to be the Ultimate Wingnut, trumpov. Nothing gets in, and nothing sensible gets out. Ahhhhhhh

  128. 128.

    Raoul

    @Cheryl Rofer: This Normandy thing is a prime example of how Trump’s tiny, paranoid media world is feeding him such utter bullshit that, to those not glued to Fox, it comes off as more and more insane. Because it is.

    Don’t know if it’ll get him unelected (and FSM willing, more GOP Senators unelected), but it damn should.

  131. 131.

    trnc

    @BC in Illinois: Daniel Dale

    @ddale8
    Trump says he goes to Dover Air Force base to greet slain soldiers “when I can.” Telling a detailed story, he says that families smile when they see him and thank him for coming, and he thought they were taking the death “so well,” but then the coffin comes and they “scream.”
    3:37 PM · Oct 9, 2019

    This sounds like the opening of a Tommy Wiseau movie.

  135. 135.

    Zzyzx

    @Jay: I’ve been fasting today and as we finally get closer to sunset, I’ve been reading the news again. This is why I want to punch any Jew who defends the alt-right on grounds that Muslims are our enemies. If nothing else, the same nationalists will always come after us.

  136. 136.

    mad citizen

    Haven’t been able to read all the threads today but I can’t believe the things that are happening. Getting out of the Open Skies treaty just went totally under the radar (not here, talking general media). I watched the ABC nightly news last night, and wondered why they don’t show and say the exact language of trumpov’s tweets. It’s truly insane. Either his party/Senators impeach him, or that whole party is going down down down.

  138. 138.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Jeffro:

    Australia (I probably have that one wrong)

    Australia had about 3,000 personnel at Normandy. Mostly Air Force, plus men aboard Royal Navy vessels. Only a couple landed ashore.

    The rest of them were busy helping the US fight the Japanese.

  140. 140.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Chris: On my shelf there sits a signed first hardback edition of an action-adventure novel titled The Second Saladin by Stephen Hunter, in which a Kurdish freedom fighter crosses the Mexican border into the USA determined to assassinate a (never named) prominent American political figure who has consigned his people to the tender mercies of a brutal dictator.

    Sound familiar? The novel was published in 1982, and the political figure is never named – but remarkably enough, in 1975 one Henry Kissinger and the Shah of Iran cut off support for the Iraqi Kurds who had rebelled against one Saddam Hussein & abandoned them to a vicious retribution. Kissinger famously said, “fuck the Kurds if they can’t take a joke” and “covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”

    And this in turn is entirely separate from Saddam’s Kurdish genocide of 1986-88, which killed upwards of 100,000 Iraqi Kurds. The awful history of those unfortunate people just repeats and repeats and repeats… :^(

  141. 141.

    sukabi

    You know who didn’t help his country with Viet Nam…Mr. Bone Spurs, who chose to be a coward instead of a soldier. Always putting his own self interests first.

    Adding that the ONLY reason he chose Normandy as his “justification” is to not draw attention to his own cowardly past.

  143. 143.

    Jay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yup, like France, or Canada.

    In 1939, France was still a nation of widows. Their Collonial troops bore the brunt of early WWII.

    The Canadian War Cemetery in S’pore contains also the Indians who died alongside their Canadian comrades.

  144. 144.

    Jay

    Reading through documents posted online by the Halle shooter, including images of weapons used that match those in the live-streamed video. It includes an achievements list, which really drives home the point @IwriteOK made about the gamification of terror t.co/GBuyCOdhzf— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) October 9, 2019

  146. 146.

    Chris

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Don’t forget that in the 1980s genocide, the Reagan administration reacted to Saddam’s gas attacks on his Kurdish population by… covering for him and trying to blame Iran instead.

    It’s very much a history of the Kurds being fucked, not just by Americans, but very specifically by Republican administrations. Dubya is probably the only one of them who dealt with them without being linked to an atrocity on this scale, which is a jaw-dropping moment of “Fezzik… You did something right!” considering how comprehensively catastrophic he otherwise was.

  147. 147.

    Jay

    ISIL and Turkey have put the band back together.

    Al Basil HQ and checkpoints are target of the attacks. About 60 Daesh militants are involved. Note that this is not attempt of a cell, but a coordinated and organized attempt by ISIS to seize control of the city.— zana amedi (@zana_medi) October 8, 2019

  148. 148.

    japa21

    Just occurred to me. Trump can’t do anything (not really can’t but won’t) about what Turkey is doing because if he comes out to hard on Turkey or tries to stop them Erdogan can release a transcript, or even worse, a recording of their call.
    SO many countries have so much leverage over us because of him.

  150. 150.

    Peale

    @Jay: no no no. ISIS is a creation of the CIA to continue the forever war and sell weapons. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

  151. 151.

    Jay

    @Chris:

    Dubya called for their revolt. Kurds and Shia.

    Then denied them access to captured weapons for their revolt,

    Allowed Saddam’s military to crush them,

    The Shia fled to the swamps and Iran, and got slaughtered in the process,

    The Iraqi Kurds fled to the mountains where starving, dying Kurds made hours of media coverage,

    Only then, with the bad media coverage did Dubya and the West give a rats ass about the Kurds.

    Still no rats ass given about the Shia.

  152. 152.

    Doug R

    I’ll tell you who was at Normandy. The Canadians and British-who were also in the White House in 1814-burning it.

  153. 153.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @JPL: Fight the Sexual Revolution apparently. And all snark aside WTF is up with Evangelicals they just blow that off.

  154. 154.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jay: The Shia have the Iranians to give a shit about them, and that what was so idiotic about the whole episdose; Bushes and the Neocons wanted Saddam overthrown, but only by the right people.

  155. 155.

    Repatriated

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: What’s up is that they’re backing Trump not because they’re Evangelical, but for the same reasons they’re Evangelical. Those reasons don’t necessarily include genuine piety, but do include self-identity.

  157. 157.

    jl

    Listening to more of Trump’s moronic presser. I wonder if he thinks the US captured all the ISIS/ISIL fighters and the US troops are the ones holding them. Otherwise I can’t make any sense of his babble. What this ass Trump says is so tenuously connected to reality and so inarticulate, hard to figure what he even means. He thinks escaped ISIL fighter are going back to Europe? Why? they left Europe to fight in the Middle East. What a fool. but he is such an idiot, worrying about he gets ‘reciprocal’, it’s a good thing is monstrous talk about the prisoners going back to Europe is nonsense.

    The GOP back this low grade idiot.

  160. 160.

    japa21

    If Erdogan thought there were demonstrations against him the last time he was here, I have one thing to tell him. “You ain’t seen nothing yet.”
    And his thuggish bodyguards won’t be able to make a dent in them.

  161. 161.

    Jay

    @jl:

    Some 2,000 or so of the ISIL fighters still have Western Passports.

    Some are off Western Radar.

    Ergodan will let them pass through Turkey and go home when the YPG releases them.

    Some 4,000 or so come from other areas of the Middle East, Africa, South Asia. Turkey will let them go home too.

    And there are some 60,000 ISIL women and children in the camps of whom, some who will go “home” too.

    The rest will join Turkey’s rebranded ISIL and al Quida as cannon fodder in their war against the YPG and Syria.

  162. 162.

    jl

    @Jay: But, I don’t understand why people who went to the Middle East to fight there, will want to go back home to wherever they came from. What do you mean by ‘home’?

  164. 164.

    Jay

    @jl:

    So, a bunch of the ISIL western recruits, learned that Middle Eastern lifestyles wern’t up to Western Standards. Lots of grains, little meat. No Mickey D’s, no fries.

    No 4th Amendment, no Miranda.

    So a bunch of them want to go “home”, where in most cases, even a multi year jail sentence, has better conditions than a Middle Eastern village or town.

    And they get to bring jihad to the decadent West.

    Most of the people who went to support Royjova, understood that they were taking the “wayback machine” in living standards, but did so because they wanted to build a better world for others.

    Most of the people who went to ISIL are like ReThugs base, dreaming of a patriarchy that never really existed, other than for a select few.

  166. 166.

    MoCA Ace

    I too am to horrified to even mock that subhuman piece of shit.
    As an “out” liberal in a pretty conservative area I have been accused by people I know of hating America. Today I could honestly answer yeah… a little. Our betrayal of the Kurds fills me with shame.

Comments are closed.