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There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

I really should read my own blog.

The willow is too close to the house.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

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T R E 4 5 O N

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

Republicans don’t trust women.

There’s always a light at the end of the frog.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment Inquiry / Impeachment Hearings / Monday Impeachment Hearings

Reader Interactions

151Comments

  3. 3.

    geg6

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yeah, he really is.  You’d think they could find a better lawyer, but if you only have the Federalist Society to choose from, he may be the best they could get.

  5. 5.

    mapaghimagsik

    Don’t need good lawyers when the Republicans won’t listen. I hope America is, but they seem to be banking on tribalism.

  6. 6.

    Betty Cracker

    A deranged Trump loon disrupted the hearing immediately, shouting about treason, etc. Got led out of the room.

  8. 8.

    Sab

    I think that the Republicans are tryimg to make the proceedings so unbearable unwathable that nobody watches. They forget that most of us have mute buttons on our TV remotes.

  17. 17.

    germy

    Is it my imagination, or is Schiff slightly sharper than Nadler, and Schiff’s legal rep slightly sharper than Nadler’s legal rep?

  18. 18.

    JPL

    Susan Hennessey  is concerned that Barr is already tampering with the IG report.   He declassified some Steele information that wasn’t reviewed by Steele.    hmmm

  20. 20.

    p.a.

    They don’t have to be good.  The Senate fix is assured and ~40% of the country is brain dead.  There will only be visible cracks in the wall if their internal polling redlights.  Maybe it already has: the off-year suburban voting trend> retirements almost en masse.  An the true believers in Congress may just rely on vote fraud suppression intimidation.  This may be the endgame of the second Redeemer counterrevolution.

  21. 21.

    germy

    @zhena gogolia:  Okay, Berke seems to be a different attorney than the one Nadler had last time.  I was disappointed the first lawyer didn’t challenge Turley more, rather than skip over him.

  25. 25.

    germy

    Look at Castor sitting there while Berke speaks.

     

    I imagine he doesn’t have much to say; he’ll just ramble around in his questions until his clock runs out.

  26. 26.

    germy

    Can confirm NYT report (https://t.co/wTO9MJWVkK) that Barr made a last minute declassification of details about Steele that will be in IG report. Steele was told about this yesterday and was not given a chance to review the new information, which as NYT notes is highly unusual.

    — Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) December 9, 2019

  28. 28.

    germy

    “Point of order!”

     

    Witness was critical of Trump.

     

    “Rules of decorum apply to witnesses!”  No they don’t

     

    Repubs don’t seem too anxious to let Castor start speaking so soon after Berke.

  29. 29.

    guachi

    LOL. I’m watching with the sound off and captions and the “Point of Order” about the witness criticizing the President is so stupid.

  30. 30.

    zhena gogolia

    I love the way the Repugs sit there giggling and whispering to each other while he’s speaking. They’re like spoiled high-school kids.

  36. 36.

    kindness

    Collins is showing himself to be a spitoon worth of dickishness.  Damn how that plays well to Trumpies I can’t figure.

  37. 37.

    Kent

    I swear I have HS students doing powerpoint presentations in class who are better than Castor.  The Republicans clearly don’t even give a shit.

  38. 38.

    Aleta

    “And I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution.” 

    — Barbara Jordan (during impeachment hearings against Nixon)

  40. 40.

    ola azul

    @germy:

    Repubs don’t seem too anxious to let Castor start speaking so soon after Berke

    That’s not my sense of why the GOP committee members are acting like juvenile assholes. Rather than being hesitant to allow Castor to talk, my impression is they’re the warm-up act for the shit-talking to follow. Right out the gate, the GOP committee members is been interrupting and interjecting on (bullshit) process grounds. My guess is they are counting on most viewers (and media!) not understanding what’s going on and and appear ready to disrupt the proceedings at every opportunity to “show” it’s alla sham witch-hunt. It’s cynical as fuck. Cuz they got fuck-all nothing. No defense.

     

    And forcing a roll-call vote? The fuck?

     

    Imo, Nadler’s gonna haveta take measures to get this under control, cuz alla these Republican dickheads interrupting him and bullyragging him gives the very strong impression that he ain’t in charge. And he is. Fucking act like it. When you tell these shitheels they can’t do sumpin, think it’s getting well onto time when that statement’s gonna have to be followed by an “or else this will happen”. Very much hope he’s thought thru this as a possible scenario, or this could be a very long day.

     

    You know the old saying: Law on your side, pound the law, Got the facts with you, pound the facts. When you got neither, pound the motherfuckin table. Republicans are pounding the fucking table, and Nadler, so far, ain’t putta cork innit from the unruly (literally) GOP committee members.

  41. 41.

    psycholinguist

    Steve Castor seems to be making the Democrats point on obstruction.  He is not very good.

  43. 43.

    Aleta

    “We are the people who run this country. We are the deciders. And every single day, every single one of us needs to step outside and take some action.”

    —Molly Ivans (in her final column)

  44. 44.

    Aleta

    “If his IQ slips any lower, we’ll have to water him twice a day.” 

    –Molly Ivans (about some state congressman)

  46. 46.

    Betty Cracker

    Never Trumper Republican Rick Wilson says the GOP antics during the hearing are designed solely to produce Fox News content. I take him at his word, but it’s hard to see how this parliamentary bullshit yields up anything worthwhile, even if you factor in the target audience’s bias, stupidity and bad faith.

  47. 47.

    The Dangerman

    @kindness:

    Damn how that plays well to Trumpies I can’t figure.

    Trumpies aren’t watching the TV; they are hammering on the toilet flusher counting to 15.

  49. 49.

    germy

    @Betty Cracker:

     it’s hard to see how this parliamentary bullshit yields up anything worthwhile, even if you factor in the target audience’s bias, stupidity and bad faith.

    I assume it’s to prove to conservative viewers that these hearings are somehow not following proper rules.  I admit I know nothing about parliamentary procedures, but I learn by reading this place and a few others.  The majority who consume more mainstream outlets will buy the argument that Democrats’ hearings are being done improperly.

     

    Most citizens are reading popehat or lawfare.  They’re listening to talk radio or network news.

  51. 51.

    ola azul

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    Rick Wilson should know the fount from which Republican assholery flows, and tho I don’t disagree with his point, I think Wilson’s take is insufficient. Yes, they want Fox News moments, question is: why?

    What I expect the GOP will be arguing tonight in their Fox News moments, based upon early indications, is that this is a sham “trial” (even tho it ain’t, you know, a trial) in which the Democrats are brazenly and undemocratically flouting the rule of (parliamentary) law by not allowing the poor besieged GOP committe members’ baseless juvenile shit-talking interjections (distractions) to have a fair hearing. Get the impression they wanna delegitimize the impeachment proceedings by arguing that it ain’t fair. To them.

     

    Such Good Germans they are.

  53. 53.

    patrick II

    After listening  to  Joe Biden  defend  himself against  the false  allegations of corruption this  morning on NPR,  I think  Trump has  already  damaged  Biden ‘s candidacy.  Joe spoke ineloquently  in his own defense.  If Trump is right,  and Biden  is his most powerful opponent,  then Trump  has already won a battle,  because the Senate will not convict,  and Biden  will not be  the next president.

  55. 55.

    germy

    @germy:

    Most citizens are reading popehat or lawfare.

    EDIT:  I mean most citizens are NOT reading popehat or lawfare.

     

    I was unable to fix the original typo.

  56. 56.

    Spanky

    @Betty Cracker: Rick Wilson is not quite right. The GOP antics are to get people to stop watching, leaving the media to tell them what happened. Few in the press will give an honest accounting.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @patrick II:

     

    then Trump  has already won a battle,  because the Senate will not convict,  and Biden  will not be  the next president. progressives are already throwing in the towel.

    Fixed.

  58. 58.

    Felanius Kootea

    @patrick II: That was the goal of course.  I sincerely hope Biden is not the nominee – he is continually unable to articulate a coherent defense of himself and to point out that there is no equivalence between him and Trump (who has employed his daughter and son-in-law in govt and refused to divest from his businesses). Getting into fights with confused voters and calling them liars is one thing, taking the fight to a Trump is another.  On that score, I really miss Kamala.  I loved her video calling Trump the predator he is.  Oh well.

  59. 59.

    Felanius Kootea

    @patrick II: Trump is not right.  Joe Biden is not his most powerful opponent.  The problem is too many Dems deciding to let the Republican candidate define who his opponent should be.  Unbelievable!

  62. 62.

    patrick II

    @Baud:  If Biden  was an  actual progressive  or if he  was any  way competent or eloquent  in defending himself  I might agree . But he is neither.    For a different candidate,  such as  Kamala,  this  might have  turned  into a positive,  An opportunity  to  attack Trump   and his family’s  corruption. But Biden  isn’t that candidate.

  63. 63.

    BC in Illinois

    @germy:

    InfoWars host Owen Shroyer gets ejected from the impeachment hearing

    And according to Newsweek , (June 2019):

    Discussing a story on far-right news site Breitbart, “Emails Show Obama’s State Department’s Role in Anti-Trump Coup Cabal,” Shroyer launched a tirade against the former president on the conspiracy site’s livestream on Tuesday. He accused him of trying to bring down Trump and being a traitor to the nation, before suggesting that he should be killed.

    “Folks, Obama was emailing Hillary Clinton on her illegal server under a secret name, that came out in emails. And he claimed he didn’t know she had it. Barack Obama is a treasonous…he belongs in jail. He belongs in Guantanamo Bay. I mean look, I’m not saying this should happen but Barack Obama, you know, find the tallest tree and a rope.”

    But, I mean, look, he’s not saying that this should happen. He’s just saying.

  68. 68.

    Just One More Canuck

    @BretH:

    I read a study that here in Toronto, it costs about 9 or 10 cents a flush, or about $300 per year for a household of three. Spending 10 times that to own the libs? Yeah, that’ll show us

  71. 71.

    rikyrah

    @ola azul:

     

    Imo, Nadler’s gonna haveta take measures to get this under control, cuz alla these Republican dickheads interrupting him and bullyragging him gives the very strong impression that he ain’t in charge. And he is. Fucking act like it.

     

    Damn straigh.

    Pucking act like it.

  74. 74.

    janesays

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Question for you about a prediction you made a few weeks ago…

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    NOVEMBER 21, 2019 AT 3:00 AM

    @janesays: Judiciary took over 6 months with Nixon’s impeachment, you also need to account for Congressional recesses. The full House won’t have a vote before the end of March.

    So, it looks like there’s going to be a vote on articles of impeachment before the year is over. What do you suppose changed in the past three weeks?

  76. 76.

    ola azul

    @Chyron HR:

    In 2016, when 1/8 of you voted for Trump. Thanks for asking.

     

    Not that it matters much, but I did not ask.

    Will say: You (rather uncharitably) glibly assuming I voted for Trump would come as something of a shock to, you know, everyone who knows me in real life. Or who has actually, you know, read any politcal position I’ve ever wrote on this here blog-type scratch pad.

  77. 77.

    janesays

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: At the time of your post, the only two witnesses who had not yet testified were Hill and Holmes. Taylor, Kent, Yovanovitch, Williams, Vindman, Volker, Morrison, Sondland, Cooper, and Hale had all testified already by November 20th. Hill’s testimony was certainly compelling, but I don’t think it dramatically altered the way things were moving anymore than the testimony of Yovanovitch, Vindman, or Sondland did.

  78. 78.

    janesays

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Sorry, just giving you a bit of grief because you seemed pretty adamant at the time that the hearings weren’t moving anywhere near as fast as I believed they were.

     

    Anyway, I really have no idea whether it’s a good thing or not that we’re most likely going to be getting a senate trial in January/February. I think regardless of whether it happens early in 2020 or in the middle of the year, the outcome is pretty much inevitable – he’s going to get exonerated by a totally complicit GOP majority who shows him absolute fealty. The question is… what happens then? I know one thing for certain – the moment the 34th vote of “not guilty” is read on the final article of impeachment (which will effectively eliminate the possibility of Trump’s conviction and removal from office), we’re going to be subject to months and months of “TOTALLY EXONERATED!!!” tweets from Velveetamort. Barf.

  79. 79.

    smintheus

    @Spanky: I think you’re right on that. Everything Republicans do is geared toward feeding Fox and the rest of the Republican noise machine, but this is a worked out strategy of total disruption. They’re trying to make the hearings both ludicrous and repellent, assuming that the news media and Americans generally are primed by the ‘both sides’ mentality they’ve worked so hard to instill.

     

    They’ve also sized up Nadler as a pushover.

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    @ola azul: Some folks equate “progressives” with “Bernie Bros.” It’s bullshit, IMO, since the vast majority of people who voted for Sanders in the 2016 primary voted for Clinton in the general. And of course plenty of people who identify as “progressive” voted for Clinton in the primary and the general, inspired by her progressive platform, even! But there you are.

  82. 82.

    Betty Cracker

    @patrick II: Biden definitely needs to step up his game on the way he answers the false allegations because that’s going to be 90% of the campaign if he’s the nominee. That said, I didn’t think he was particularly bad on NPR. What did you hear that alarmed you? Or was it that he didn’t mention Trump’s wholesale, family-sized corruption? He really needs to incorporate that, IMO.

  83. 83.

    Baud

    @ola azul:

     

    I object to defeatism regardless of the ideology behind it. My response would be similar if someone said “Trump has already won” because he’s successfully hurt Warren with the Pocohantas slur.  There is no candidate we can make our nominee who will not be subject to bullshit attacks. The only question is whether we buy into the attacks or fight back.

  84. 84.

    ola azul

    @janesays:

    If it works out as you game it, expect you’re correct Trump will claim that he was exonerated. But: Here’s a little thought experiment I’d encourage you to mull over.

    Consider what would happen in lieu of impeachmdnt never happening? What do you reckon Trump’s response would be to the failure of Dems even *trying* to hold him accountable for his brazen criminality?

    Me, I’ma guessing Trump woulda claimed, longly and loudly and not w/o justification (cuz the formal case would not have been made), not that he was exonerated, but rather that he was fucking *innocent*. And worse, that the *Dems* were in fact the guilty parties in soliciting foreign aid. That *was*, plainly, the game plan before the whistleblower foiled the scheme.

    If events *had* played out that way, Dems would have only themselves to blame cuz it is their constitutional duty to pursue impeachment and Trump woulda flouting Democratic cowardice in their faces day and night. And would his rabid base and enablers in the media.

    No one knows how impeachment is all gonna play out, granted, but, at minimum, Dems will not be put in the position of not having made the case and being indicted by their own cowardice. By fucking Trump, of all people.

    Personally, I have long maintained that the impeachment process *could* have (intangible, now) knock-off benefits that may come forth during the election season, esp. in the Senate races, esp. if the Senate Republicans, in spite of mountains of evidence, insist on acquitting Trump.

    Acquit a guilty man, you own that. Then let voters decide. (My great fear is not enough squishy and confused and apathetic folk give a shit, but then, if that’s the case, I’d kinda like to know that instead of pretending “we’re better than that” when, if that happent, we clearly are not.

    Impeachment draws bright, clear lines. How folks choose is how they choose, but, imo, it don’t do anyone any good to pretend (like Biden) that shit ain’t fucked up when it very clearly is.

    Sometimes you gotta do the right thing. Dems got there, and I commend them for it.

     

    imo

  86. 86.

    jonas

    @kindness:Collins is showing himself to be a spitoon worth of dickishness.  Damn how that plays well to Trumpies I can’t figure.

    Being a raging, ignorant asshole = pwning the libs. Or something.

  88. 88.

    debbie

    @Sab:
    I did have to turn it off when Collins started. If his tag teaming with Jordan continues, it may become (for me) unlistenable.

  89. 89.

    jonas

    Watching these GOP assclowns yell “Point of order!” whenever a witness contradicts one of their idiotic talking points reminds me so much of this. They have no idea what the rules of order are. If only Frank, rather than Nadler, were chairing this circus….

  95. 95.

    trollhattan

    @debbie:

    Collins is a special kind of awful, which I guess makes him a perfect Republican but I find him perfectly repellant and switch the whole thing off.

  97. 97.

    ola azul

    @Baud:

     

    Don’t disagree w/any a that. You are an astute observer. I dislike (despise) defeatism as well. Am agreed that *any* Dem candidate is gonna be subject to unfair but tailored attacks by dishonest Republicans and Trump. And fighting back is a given.

    My response to your post was intended to suggest that striking the words of one solitary commenter and replacing them with your own words that cavalierly indicted a large and unruly but needful segment of the Dem electorate (“progressives”) is the other side of the BernieBro stridency coin from the classic liberal POV.

     

    imo

  98. 98.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @jonas: further evidence that the majority of Republicans elected to Congress are simply too lazy, too corrupt or too intellectually limited to follow even the simplest rules of their job.

  104. 104.

    japa21

    Mrs. Japa was watching the opening of the hearings and said, “They are such assholes” referring to the Republicans.  I responded, “To paraphrase a familiar saying, not all Republicans are assholes but most assholes are Republicans.”  Should note that the not all excludes the ones in Congress.  All of those are assholes.

  105. 105.

    JWR

    This characterless, cretinous Castor has the nefarious eye movements better suited to a lazy Snidely Whiplash just as he’s lashing the helpless Damsel to the tracks.

  106. 106.

    patrick II

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    That, and the he called the guy who challenged him a liar. And also, not on NPR, he offered to compare IQ’s.  Just totally Trumpian, Joe the stable genius.

  110. 110.

    patrick II

    @Baud:

    Or whether the candidate is capable of fighting back.  So far, Biden hasn’t been — resorting to the type of macho faceoff that he performed with the guy who challenged him yesterday.  He will have to do better.

    Make no mistake, if the Joe is the candidate I will be out there knocking on doors (sadly, my only campaign skill), and telling people how important it is to elect him.  I would like a little more competent help from the candidate.

  111. 111.

    mrmoshpotato

    @germy: Apparently yes.

    The "protester" at the #ImpeachmentHearing was Owen Shroyer, an InfoWars reporter.He pushed the false Pizzagate conspiracy theory and once said Obama should be "lynched."Congrats, Republicans. These are the people who are still on your side.— St. Nick Jack Pappas (@Pappiness) December 9, 2019

  112. 112.

    ola azul

    @patrick II:

    Calling what Joe did “totally Trumpian” is an insult to Joe and a compliment to Trump, imo; Trump is such a chickenshit in person, I cannot conceive of him putting himself in a position where he might get inna physical altercation.

    Biden handled it badly, imo. No question. And not cuz Biden got angry, not cuz he got all aggro, but rather cuz of *who he done it to*. You punch up, not down, *fucking-well-especially* when you’re a powerful member of society. It’s a bad look that Joe blew his cool, and it suggests, to me, Biden ain’t worked out how he’s gonna thread the needle on defending himself w/o forsaking his boy. It’sa problem. It will take political finesse, and Joe ain’t shown it so far.

    An aside: Here’s an example of how to talk smack to a smarmy bad-faith shitheel:

    https://youtu.be/OnyrCVwGyK4

  113. 113.

    Dmbeaster

    @janesays: Of course it is a good thing.

    Its about fighting non-stop.  Every EXONERATED tweet is met with “corrupt criminal GOP” meme – that you have to get rid of all the GOP to get rid of Trump corruption.  He was “exonerated” by corrupt lick spittle GOP.  If you do not like that heat, get out of the kitchen.

    The Obama line that we are above it will not work.

    This aggressive attack is why impeachment is right – it makes the narrative abiut Trump and GOP corruption.  That will create the coalition to get rid of him.

    Fear of the fight is weakness.

  115. 115.

    Baud

    @ola azul:

    My response to your post was intended to suggest that striking the words of one solitary commenter and replacing them with your own words that cavalierly indicted a large and unruly but needful segment of the Dem electorate (“progressives”)

     

    Should we stop talking about all groups then, such as conservaDems and billionaires, and only refer to individuals in the future?

  120. 120.

    gene108

    @ola azul:

    The sad part is Trump and his kids are neck deep in deals that trade on the Trump name and Trump Presidency.

    Just try to force the media to start asking about how Jared’s $1 billion loan on 666 Whatever Ave, NYC got paid off, just in the nick of time,  by a wealth fund partly owned by the Qatari government?

    Or Ivanka getting granted patents and trademarks in China?

    There’s so much self-dealing with Trump, the media has tuned it out, but a good politician should be able to shift the focus. It’s low hanging fruit.

  122. 122.

    gene108

    @Baud:

    There is no candidate we can make our nominee who will not be subject to bullshit attacks. The only question is whether we buy into the attacks or fight back.

    “Fighting back” requires a level of message discipline Democrats and the Left do not posses.

    Democrats maybe able to pull it off.

    But the Left – Bernie supporters, Tulsi curious, etc. – have their own agendas, which are not about winning elections.

  123. 123.

    ola azul

    @Baud:

    Think it’s purty evident that anyone can talk about (virtually) whatever they want. It’s one of the great charms of this blog.

    Am not following your reasoning in the question you pose. Lemme be direct:

    If someone were to cite your nym and blockquote your words, and then they struck a portion of what you wrote and replaced your words with their own words so that those new words now impugned, say, all classic liberals inna defeatist way:

    Are you maintaining that you’d be OK with that?

  124. 124.

    Betty Cracker

    @gene108: I think Biden is getting there, with characteristic lack of quickness. He started out saying something like “nobody says I did anything wrong and my son didn’t do anything wrong.” Now he’s recognized that plenty of people, including the people with their hands on the executive branch, the US Senate, the State Department and DOJ, are saying out loud and on the record that he and his son are crooks. He’s progressed to calling some town hall rando a “damned liar.”

    Maybe he’ll get around to saying that Trump, Lindsay Graham, etc., are lying about him and his son and wasting taxpayer resources by sending government officials on a global snipe hunt while Trump’s own nepotism hires are ransacking the Treasury. The sooner the better. That’s what Trump is running on, so Biden needs to get to that counter-argument.

  125. 125.

    Yutsano

    @guachi: I’m guessing they’re focusing on the “numerous errors” and the Barr spin about disagreeing with the conclusion. I refuse to give them my eyeballs.

  126. 126.

    JWR

    @guachi: You will not be shocked to find that this is not how Fox News is spinning it.

    Seriously? You’re kidding me, right?, You’re not tryin’ to put one over on me, are ya? //

  129. 129.

    Betty Cracker

    @Yutsano: Every establishment figure who assured us Barr is an old Washington hand and institutionalist who wouldn’t act as Trump’s personal henchman needs to bash themselves over the head with the nearest skillet.

  130. 130.

    Baud

    @ola azul:

    People “fix” comments all the time in that manner.

    And you’d have to be blind to not realize that there is a class of progressives who direct a lot of negativity on Dems, even if a majority of them are fine people.

  131. 131.

    chris

    Chortle! (It’s Ivanka)

    Breaking: Dossier author Chris Steele had a meeting at Trump Tower, and maintains he was not biased against President Trump and in fact maintained a close friendship with a family member and was, if anything, “favourably disposed” to the Trumps. Extract from the OIG report here: pic.twitter.com/afjxBkcTkd— Julia Macfarlane (@juliamacfarlane) December 9, 2019

  135. 135.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: But of course any Gallup poll that doesn’t show you with a commanding lead is not likable!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  136. 136.

    JWR

    Oh God, Doug Collin’s on a rant about how Joe Biden actually did a quid pro quo by holding up US aid over Ukrainian corruption! Goldman is to be commended for not breaking out in uproarious laughter.

  137. 137.

    guachi

    @JWR: As Vice President, didn’t Biden have no authority or ability to hold up aid? If aid were held up it would have been Obama’s doing.

  138. 138.

    ola azul

    @Baud:

    Wouldn’t dispute none a that. Not blind to it, but also not my point.

    Like the progressives you cite, there’re *also* a class of liberals (who you’d have to blind to not realize) direct a lot of negativity on Dems, even if a majority of them are fine people.

    (This is, imo, also true, but less commonly acknowledged. Especially by liberals, among whom I count myself.)

  139. 139.

    Baud

    @ola azul:

     

    I don’t understand the distinction between progressives and liberals here, but I agree generally that there are many groups who deserve our derision.

  140. 140.

    Immanentize

    @Baud:There really is no difference (outside of historical moments). When the identification as a “liberal” became toxic in the ’80’s (card carrying member of the ACLU, limousine liberal, etc.) instead of fighting the bias, many liberals started calling themselves progressives because they are chicken shits.

  141. 141.

    TriassicSands

    @JWR:

    Goldman is to be commended for not breaking out in uproarious laughter.

    It’s hard to laugh when an idiot like Collins is yelling at you.

    @guachi:

    As Vice President, didn’t Biden have no authority or ability to hold up aid? If aid were held up it would have been Obama’s doing.

    Goldman responded perfectly to this — Biden made the demand congruent to official U.S. policy (as designated by President Obama who sent the vice president rather than his personal attorney around the world to conduct foreign policy).

    Part of Biden’s problem as a candidate is his propensity to claim credit for actions that were beyond his authority. He frequently sounds like he (thinks he) was the driving force behind any successes that the Obama administration had.

  142. 142.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: The moment people decide Bernie Sanders is a viable contender for the nomination, he will get the aggro. As long as he’s just a spoiler or gadfly, he won’t get it, just like in 2016.

  143. 143.

    BretH

    Is it possible for testimony and questions to be done more ineptly and with less seeming concern for the outcome? Watching Republicans go through the motions of a questioning session…

  144. 144.

    JWR

    @guachi:  Yes! That’s what’s so batshit about the Rs using that particular policy as a weapon. But then, we’re not living in the same batshit world as the one on which they’ve planted their freak flag, and that’s so unfortunate for those of us with friends, or worse, whole families, who’ve been taken by the Cause.

  150. 150.

    J R in WV

    @Immanentize:

     

    What I learned in Israel where they take water very seriously:

    If it’s yellow, let it mellow.
    If it’s brown, send it down.

    A couple of weeks ago I had knee surgery, arthroscopic torn cartilage trim. Just 2 or 3 days before that medical appointment, our well began strange electrical failures. So we have been on yellow/mellow — brown/down for several days.

    I carried water cubes up from the basement for flushing purposes not long after the surgery… I waited long enough according to the surgeon, whom I saw today for the 2 week review.

    He told me my right knee was repaired here and there, and could last a while. My left knee ( not worked on, just x-rayed ) had pretty thin cartilage and when it goes out that will mean a total replacement, as will the next failure in the right knee.

    Bummer, but at least we can fix thing today. Also, the well is repaired now, with a new power panel on the pole where the well service is connected to the power grid.

    Anything else that goes wrong will probably be the actual pump at the bottom of the well. It’s hard dirty work to pull a submersible pump out of even a shallow 80 feet deep water well.

    And fuq all of these Repubicans who prefer to be Russian stooges to being patriotic Americans.

    And am I the only person sick of the Republican Russian stooges pretending they don’t know how to pronounce the name of our political party? We are mostly proud members of the Democratic Party, not the Democrat party, nor the Demonrat party.

    These guys are ignorant and hateful Russian Stooges, which actually puts the Three Stooges down, as those Three Stooges brothers were smarter in their films than any of the Russo-Republican Stooges in our Congress are today on TV.

  151. 151.

    janesays

    @ola azul: Just to be clear – I’m 100% in support of the impeachment. I wasn’t questioning whether or not the impeachment itself was a good thing, I was questioning whether or not wrapping up the House phase this quickly was a good thing.

    Once it goes to the Senate, it’s largely going to be on McConnell’s clock. And I think we all know what the end result is going to be – acquittal. So after he’s acquitted, I don’t know how we deal with him, other than ride out the clock and keep hammering what a corrupt bastard he is. They’re not going to be able to impeach him again, because I’m pretty sure that would blow up in their faces badly and actually work to Cheetolini’s advantage.

    I think it’s just that ever since the asswipe took office, I knew his impeachment was inevitable – it was always something to look forward to. Now it’s here, it’s gonna happen, but come January or February, it’s all gonna be over, and he’s still gonna be the president. And then he’s gonna be an even bigger raging asshole for the next ten months, acting with total impunity because he’ll know that the Democrats had their shot to take him out, he’s still standing, and they’re not gonna get another shot. At least not via impeachment.

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