Ignore Lamar’s “let the people decide” bullshit, what he is actually doing has a name, and it is jury nullification:
“There is no need for more evidence to prove that the president asked Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter; he said this on television on October 3, 2019, and during his July 25, 2019, telephone call with the president of Ukraine. There is no need for more evidence to conclude that the president withheld United States aid, at least in part, to pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens; the House managers have proved this with what they call a ‘mountain of overwhelming evidence.’ There is no need to consider further the frivolous second article of impeachment that would remove the president for asserting his constitutional prerogative to protect confidential conversations with his close advisers.
“It was inappropriate for the president to ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent and to withhold United States aid to encourage that investigation. When elected officials inappropriately interfere with such investigations, it undermines the principle of equal justice under the law. But the Constitution does not give the Senate the power to remove the president from office and ban him from this year’s ballot simply for actions that are inappropriate.
What is before the Senate is not a vote on the appropriateness of the House articles of impeachment, but whether or not Trump is guilty of that which he has been accused, and you’re not even contesting that. You’re just going to vote against removing him because IOKIYAR.
Major Major Major Major
My thinking summarized by something Cheryl retweeted yesterday…
schrodingers_cat
In the other banana republic news. BJP government in Karnataka has booked a mother of a 6 year old student and the principal of the school where the play was staged on sedition charges for a school play mildly critical of PM Modi.
They are Muslims in case you were wondering.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
I think the proceedings had an effect. They had an effect on me, at any rate, and I’ve heard of other people who’ve been similarly enraged. I wish more people had paid attention, though. Schiff was MAGNIFICENT and so were all the others, especially Jeffries and Crow.
TaMara (HFG)
I thought this was on point.
balconesfault
What’s this “ban him from the ballot” BS?
The GOP most certainly could put Trump back on the ballot after he was removed from office by the Senate. No reason at all that he couldn’t run for re-election.
Frankensteinbeck
@Major Major Major Major:
ALL we could ever realistically hope for from impeachment is to hang it around Mitch’s already unpopular neck that he let Trump skate. Treating this vote as the test of our Republic is silly. We are in exactly the same difficult situation we have been for years, and the answer remains the same: Stay angry and vote the bastards out, like we’ve been doing the last three years.
Major Major Major Major
@Frankensteinbeck: I don’t follow. How is it not a test of our republic, which we are failing? Getting an F on the midterm and the final doesn’t mean you didn’t get two F’s, just because you would’ve flunked the course regardless.
mali muso
@schrodingers_cat: So infuriating and distressing!
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: I agree with you.
schrodingers_cat
@mali muso:
Held without bail till the hearing next week I might add.
LC
@balconesfault:
Article I, Section 3, Clause 7?
I think most people think this means that the disqualification is automatic, but I suppose you don’t have to read it that way.
SiubhanDuinne
Really, Lamar!? Inappropriate?
Inafuckingpropriate?
“Inappropriate” is serving Chardonnay with Beef Wellington. “Inappropriate” is wearing a tee-shirt and cut-offs to a wedding.
What Trump and his enablers did was not “inappropriate.” It was criminal.
Betty Cracker
IMO, both things are true: the impeachment WAS a stress test for our republic, which most of us expected to fail, and it looks like we were right. It is also the latest wake-up call to either address those deficiencies or keep sliding into kleptocratic ethnostate status, a slide that began long before Trump.
But people who are scared about what this vote signifies aren’t wrong or hysterical. The Senate is about to say it’s A-OK to use presidential power to close off the single option we have to address what’s broken about our system: elections. It’s no excuse for panic, which only saps the will to fight it, but fear and consternation aren’t an inappropriate response.
randy khan
@LC:
It’s not automatic – the Senate has to decide whether the acts that led to impeachment and conviction warrant the sanction of never serving in an office of the U.S. again. For example, Alcee Hastings was removed as a federal judge via impeachment, and then elected to the House.
Jeffro
Two things:
Plus, it’ll be easier to bang on GOP Senators publicly for each and every thing trumpov does, says, tweets, garbles, etc. Who knows, maybe even our national snooze media will find themselves reframing their usual ‘both sides’ BS a bit. Won’t hold my breath on that last one, though.
We are going to crush them in November, and then it’s time for that ‘National Truth and Retribution* Commission’
*or whatever its eventual, official name is ;)
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: It is bad and it was expected. But we have been in this situation since 2016. Now we will have proof when they vote.
MomSense
I hope we eventually find out just WTF kompromat they have on these Republicans.
Immanentize
@balconesfault: They don’t even need to remove him if they vote to convict. Either Alexander does not understand or he is arguing hyperbole to make his position sound just.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
Why not both?
randy khan
Two thoughts (okay, three):
germy
How many of the Democratic frontrunners have pledged to do that? I honestly don’t know.
randy khan
@Jeffro:
I like the sound of that, although probably it ought to be called something else to make it seem less obvious.
MomSense
@Jeffro:
Now that Trump is off the hook again, he’s going to double down on the cheating. Crushing them probably means just barely winning adjusted for the cheating and voter suppression.
SFAW
@Jeffro:
But none of them are “real” Americans, and thus will not be allowed to vote.
Thanks for getting the name right, first time.
Barbara
@randy khan: He isn’t running again. He is free from political pressure. Once again, associating with Trump just exposes the low character and cowardice that was there all along waiting to be exploited.
germy
@SFAW:
They’re not from the “Heartland” ?
The Dangerman
On first coffee (read: always dangerous), and I think I’ve posted this thought previously (maybe not), but I don’t see how, in the long run, this plays well for Republicans. Blue States become more blue. Purple States trend more blue…
…and, fine, maybe Red States get even more red as a reactionary response to the above. Unless they think they can continually govern, at best, with Electoral College only victories and continue even THAT while playing to the racist, sexist … ah, hell, let’s just call it Trumpian … basest of the base, eventually, they are well and truly fucked. Now, maybe McConnell doesn’t care, as he may be dead by that time, but there is a reckoning and it ain’t gonna be pretty.
gvg
@balconesfault: They have a choice. If they remove him from office, they can ALSO vote to not permit him to run again. OR they can leave him the possibility. It’s an extra penalty they MAY use but don’t have to.
Trump is spiteful. If they actually removed him, they would be crazy to leave him that option but I think it’s a moot point (not going to remove)
MattF
@MomSense: That could be interesting and entertaining. However, I’d assume that Putin has Kompromat on everyone, some verifiable some not– so we’re talking about a tsunami of unverified stuff.
West of the Rockies
@Major Major Major Major:
Well, it’s certainly a test of the Republican party and conservative voters
They failed horribly.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I just spent a few days with my SIL and her husband in Florida. They hate Trump but are firmly convinced he’ll be re-elected via the Electoral College. It was depressing.
Brendan in NC
@randy khan: How about the F*** Your Feelings Commission
Barbara
@The Dangerman: I think this will be true for certain states. It depends on where the population is concentrated. I am linking to an NYT article on Virginia this morning, noting that in 2019 24% of the population lives in a rural location, compared to 47% in 1990. Where that trend applies in other states, expect the same kind of shift.
Virginia Article
oldster
“We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.”
Hitler’s words apply perfectly to the Republican leadership (better, in fact, than they applied to the Soviet army).
Every one of the Republican big-wigs knows how evil and dangerous Trump is. We have them on record saying so, from the 2016 primary — Graham, Rubio, McCarthy, all of them. Every one of them knows that when they coddle and conciliate him, they are betraying their country.
But they are too weak and spineless to resist.
I knew that Republicans were evil. But I am still surprised at how swiftly they collapsed into the party of Trump.
catclub
@germy: I think if Trump does not win in November they will shred every document in the building before a responsible admin comes in. Also de-gauss all the disk drives. Document retention laws be damned.
germy
@catclub: Hillary used bleach, so both sides really.
MCA1
@Immanentize: Given that he used the phrase “capital punishment” a couple times in his justification of the U.S. Senate fully capitulating to the worst American, I’d say it’s the latter. He knows exactly what the Constitution says and he doesn’t care and is arguing in bad faith, just like every other Republican.
catclub
@germy: Dershowitz is denying it, but he clearly said that anything Trump does to ensure his re-election cannot be an impeachable offense. That includes sabotaging voting machines in Milwaukee and Chicago.
Sab
Democrat here, from Ohio. Have voted for Republicans in my past. Never will again. They are a crime spree. Portman’s phones are all full. So we can’t send messages. Of course they are.
scav
America may very well have a heartland, but it’s certainly filled with a lot of obvious plaque. Hardline fatty deposits
The Moar You Know
The GOP was always a movement in search of a cult of personality. They finally found the perfect Big Brother that they’ve always been looking for.
I just hope that the orange piece of shit lives through the election, because the last thing this nation needs is a GOP driven by the memory of their martyred Great Leader.
jimmiraybob
A new declaration for our times (note to self: start tee shirt business):
catclub
One thing Trump will not do: Proudly announce that the stock market tanked the day he gets acquitted by the Senate.
JPL
@MomSense: Only the DNC emails are worthy to print. I think they all had foreign funds pumped into their campaigns.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
just turned on MSNBC and (very Gomer Pyle voice, or is it Goober?) Surprise, surprise, surprise
The NYT has a new leak about Bolton: Trump told Bolton to call Zelensky
Toedancer
If there are no witnesses called – America doesn’t just have an Autocracy problem, but sliding into Fascism-Lite, today, not in 10 years. The unending barrage of crisis & moral collapse is beyond words; the common thread is to proclaim an absolute right for the leader, an absolute denial of rights for everyone else.
delk
Someone should tell Lamar what the first line of his obituary is going to state.
randy khan
@Barbara:
Well, there is my third point. But I also presume that the kind of high-character person who gets elected to the Senate as a Republican would prefer to serve out his last few months without flying monkey attacks, and would see that as a higher value than achieving justice.
randy khan
@Brendan in NC:
I could work with that. If we wanted to be a little less obvious, we could call it the efgoldman Commission.
MCA1
@randy khan: Their lack of imagination and ability to think longer term, beyond the tactics of the moment, is astounding, though. They f’ing hate Trump. Hate him. And the Democrats handed them the perfect off-ramp. Hold a real trial, and Trump is daily humiliated for the whole world to see. Support for removal would quickly approach 2/3 of the public, and half of the base they’re all so scared of would start to see him as a loser. Then they could jettison him without fear of reprisal, because it’s already too late for primary challengers and the fire’s been taken out of the MAGAts, and position themselves as a responsible party who, golly, didn’t realize how incredibly corrupt that guy was but they sure are cutting the cord now.
Instead they’re hitching the longterm health of their party to a mob boss with manifestly the lowest character of anyone to ever sit in the Oval Office, by completing ceding the power of Congress in open dereliction of their duty to defend the nation and the Constitution. It’s madness.
Searcher
@The Dangerman: The next step is stepping up the violent intimidation of the opposition.
Searcher
@Dorothy A. Winsor: They’re in Florida, dammit! Florida has a way better chance than former-swing-state Ohio to play the deciding role in this year’s election.
germy
FiveThirtyEight
@FiveThirtyEight
Do you think the country will elect a woman president in the next 20 years?
Stacey Abrams: Yes.
Do you think they’ll elect a black woman?
Stacey Abrams: Yes.
Do you think they’ll elect you?
Stacey Abrams: Yes. That’s my plan. And I’m very pragmatic.
53eig.ht/2tlepja
MCA1
@randy khan: I’ve seen reporting that some of these R’s are whining about how they and their families are being exposed to the vile antics of the MAGA maniacs back home, for even motioning toward the idea of checking Trump, and that fear of vilification and rejection when they leave D.C. is partly driving their cowardice.
F that noise. They all created the mob that now stalks them. The ironic price for avoiding that mob ought to be that they’re mocked and shouted at and hounded out of restaurants for the rest of their lives by the decent people they’ve betrayed.
The Dangerman
@Searcher:
Well, they have done that already in Charlottesville … and paid the price. Maybe not a heavy enough price…
Going back to the long run thing, what these idiots forget is that liberals own guns, too.
Ruckus
@MCA1:
I posted this in a thread down below but it looks like it belongs here so I’m putting it here as well.
A smart boss choses the people who work for him/her to be smarter, better skilled at the job hired for because it makes their job easier and better. A moronic, narcissistic boss will only choose people who are totally subservient and who at least act stupider than himself because he thinks it elevates his person, which to him is far more important than the job hired for.
And this is the republican party. Their leader is to be followed right off the cliff, like lemmings. Questioning the leader is just not done. Democrats recognize that we are hiring a person to work for us, republicans believe they work for him. And yes it is overwhelmingly a man because of course women can not lead, only obey. They don’t respect equality because that is in direct opposition to their base concept of humanity. The republican party can not grow because they are stuck with their own dogma of conservation of the white male “mystique.” And trump is the embodiment of that. It matters not that he is nothing like what his mind’s eye sees, it is what he projects that is important. To the true conservative that is the entire point of life.
catclub
I expect Lamar Alexander is making sure he gets his wingnut welfare synecure when he leaves the senate.
Those guys don’t fully retire, typically. They get hired onto big law firms as consultants.
Kent
Long-term (really long term) the country is becoming more urban everywhere. Problem is that not every state has real cities to absorb the depopulating of rural areas.
There’s not really that much difference between say North Dakota and Minnesota except for Minneapolis. Young people flee rural small MN towns and move to Minneapolis so MN keeps them and at least stays purple. However in ND, young people flee small rural ND towns and ALSO move to Minneapolis, making ND more red. Because there is really no place in ND to attract them. Fargo and Bismark are growing due to the oil boom, but are still both tiny.
Rural states with viable growing cities will likely stay purple or even trend blue. Rural states with no viable cities will likely just get more red.
lee
I don’t remember back during the Clinton impeachment.
Wasn’t the rational the Dem senators voting to acquit was that what Clinton did was not worth removal from office?
chopper
@catclub:
oh yes, trump is going to be ramping up all sorts of horrible illegal bullshit to get reelected. and the GOP has made it clear that they think it’s all okay.
randy khan
@MCA1:
They are very good at tactics, and very poor at strategy. Granted, that’s true of most people, but you’d expect more in our political leaders.
Kent
@lee: Censure not removal was the entire point of move-on.org which I think got its start during the Clinton Impeachment. That is what a lot of Dem senators were hanging their hats on.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Searcher:
They’ll vote the right way but I wonder what they’re seeing and hearing that so discourages them.
Kelly
That is obvious, astonishing and I hadn’t thought of it until you pointed it out.
J R in WV
@randy khan:
Here in W Va, the prosecutors have had to start putting it in plea agreements for election fraud that the folks pleading guilty must commit to never running for office again. Otherwise, as soon as the county boss (often a Dem!) gets out of jail and off probation, they run and are reelected.
Sad. And why in those parts of the state many people are rock-ribbed Republicans, they can’t stand the local Democratic party corruption. A real shame.
terraformer
@catclub:
That’s the thing, right? We may or may not crush them.
Even with miraculous turnout and white-hot rage, the dark shadow is (and has been for at least a decade, if not longer), guarding against election fraud. Not voter fraud, which has always been a shiny object, but voting machine and process fraud. Without real election security in place, the vote is ripe for the taking.
And we know that the Rs have been steadfast in their blockage of any and all substantive action on this which, I think, is their so-called “last bastion of defense” against being relegated to the wild. We know that they’ll stop at nothing to hold onto power. And we know that we don’t have election security. That’s what bothers me the most.
Bill Arnold
@MomSense:
What it also means is that all[1] (legal[2) political tactics are legitimate now. That necessarily also includes Democrats and their allies. This is sad and purely the fault of the Republicans.
[1] I’ll exclude attacks on minor children of candidates, since that line hasn’t been crossed much recently. (Was crossed by Rs in the 1990s.)
[2] This might be illegal. Collating Hacked Data Sets (Bruce Schneier, 2019/01/30)