Bernie supporters need to ponder this. Before Trump, EVERY serious contender eventually released their medical records.
Bernie is flouting a long-time norm, following Trump. If he’s this brazen at concealment, would he be appropriately open & transparent in the White House? https://t.co/vfIqlhkXvT
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) February 19, 2020
Sanders campaign has clearly concluded that the heat he's taking for hiding his medical records is not as bad as what's in them.
— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) February 19, 2020
If I worked for a 78 year old candidate who had recently had a heart attack & he refused to release his medical records I would quit.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) February 19, 2020
I seem to remember Bernie’s Press Secretary gleefully spreading the ‘Hillary’s health is failing!’ bullshite smears back in 2016, but maybe I’m just prejudiced, because she’s currently comparing questions about Sanders’ health to… birtherism:
If there was any doubt that the lessons of media handling in the Trump era wouldn't be picked up by non-Trump candidates. Bernie's health records are his "tax records." Gaslighting and obfuscation coming up! https://t.co/kZgwmWGv4c
— Robert A George (@RobGeorge) February 19, 2020
The whole thing is just baffling. I assume even the staunchest of Sanders supporters are willing to concede that he is mortal. https://t.co/4836HMNC3I
— Starfish Who Should Be Told To Get Back To Work (@IRHotTakes) February 19, 2020
For me this whole thing boils down to the fact that they played this so so badly.
This wouldn't even be such a big topic if Gray hadn't gone on CNN and lied, now it's going to be a big thing in the debate.
— veto players stan account (@Convolutedname) February 19, 2020
Roger Moore
I think it’s pretty damn obvious what he’s hiding. The worst part is that all the grifters around him are far more interested in keeping the grift going than they are in Bernie’s health or the best interests of the country.
Baud
Always go with the obvious: E.D.
PsiFighter37
@Baud: LOL ?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Projection, thy name is Baud.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: E. D. and this was not his first heart attack.
zhena gogolia
DemJayhawks
@Baud:
Warren has a pill for that.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@zhena gogolia: She’s right
ETA: For those of you not out here in the Golden State(you’d think Trump would love us for the Golden part), Bernie’s been running almost as many ads(per my watching the 11pm news) as Bloomberg and Steyer.
ETA2: Also, some shots of Bernie IN HIS COMMERCIALS he looks really unwell.
mrmoshpotato
While slapping around Upchuck Todd, Warren should ask Wilmer how many heart attacks he’s had.
sukabi
@Roger Moore: that’s exactly why they had him out hitting balls 2 days after his attack & stent procedure. That alone could have killed him. You’re supposed to rest and let the stent and incisions heal.
schrodingers_cat
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
@zhena gogolia: Agreed.
Roger Moore
@zhena gogolia:
On the one hand, she’s right. On the other hand, they probably need to take a shot or two at Bloomberg, too. What they probably need to do is to divide the effort among them but focus on those two.
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Your nature and space pictures are great, but you’re horrible. :)
delk
Ugh. I just googled ‘Hillary’s health’. Bernie is getting away with none of the pile on Hillary received.
moonbat
Something tells me Ms. Rubin would be okie-dokie with a Bloomberg presidency too.
germy
I don’t have a link, but I remember Anne Laurie writing a brief and illuminating essay about Jane Sanders and her influence on Bernie’s decision to soldier on, health issues or no health issues.
topclimber
@Baud: Sadly, you have just pointed out why he might connect with many male voters.
Baud
@delk:
Honestly, no one should get that treatment. But the health records here are a legitimate issue.
germy
I saw AOC interviewed, and she said Sanders has released the same medical records as the other candidates.
Roger Moore
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Oh, he does. You notice he’s not at all afraid to milk California for money, either for his campaign, for himself directly, or to pay for the goodies he wants to hand out to red states.
FWIW, we need to start calling the states red states and black states, just to point out who’s paying for whom.
PsiFighter37
@germy: Someone’s trying to keep her “stay out of jail” card alive.
PsiFighter37
@germy: AOC being disingenuous…color me shocked!
Martin
I think tonights debate is the key debate.
Bloomberg has gotten a free ride so far – he’s been saying what he want said, and nobody has really been coming at him. We started to get some vetting on him in the last 2 weeks, which is good. I’d say he’s gotten the better end of Twitter wars with Trump (whatever the fuck that’s worth).
I’m guessing everyone will be gunning for Bloomberg and we’ll see if Bloomberg can stay on message and gun for Trump.
But the task for Democrats is to show they can take down an unlimited money candidate, with a pretty bad history of personal behavior. If they can’t take down Bloomberg tonight, I think those ‘anyone but Trump’ voters will lock in on him, determining that if you can’t take down Bloomberg, then you can’t take down Trump. I hope the moderators are prepared to go off script, because that’s kind of what we need tonight – let the candidates steer the topics.
This is not a an election that will improve democracy. This is an election about how much can we limit the damage.
Martin
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Huh. I don’t watch much TV, but I watch a lot of stuff on YouTube, and it’s 99% Bloomberg. No Steyer. I’ve seen 2 Sanders ads.
dr. bloor
@mrmoshpotato:
“Fewer than Eisenhower.”
The focus on this makes me crazy. Sanders released the same general physician’s letter than the other septugenarians have released, and it specifically addressed his post-MI cardiac functioning.
A much richer vein to mine is his detachment from reality in terms of his knowledge of his own platform, and his plans to implement said platform.
Jay
So, as sort of a Democratic Party Cantidate, the Turd Reich MSM has decided it’s now Bernie’s time in the barrel?
Hillary Clinton’s medical records had no effect on the “remote diagnosis” of the Turd Reich Media.
mrmoshpotato
@germy: Sooooo how many other (actual Democratic) candidates had part of their heart muscle literally die?
germy
@PsiFighter37: Did she say something that wasn’t true?
Should some candidates release more records than other candidates? Should we know more about Bloomberg’s health? How about mayor Pete?
I’m personally not comfortable with a candidate who just had a heart attack running for president. I think there should be rules in place: if you qualify for debates, you need to release medical history and taxes. Apparently, the rules need to be spelled out nowadays, in our era of trump
bmoak
I found something I remember reading from Kurt Eichenwald about what the Republicans could/would hit Sanders in a general election. It was written shortly after the 2016 election, and I couldn’t find it for a while because I couldn’t remember where it was published and it was actually more about misconceptions about the DNC. Article is HERE.
I’ll try to quote the relevant section. Food for thought.
“So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.
Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.
Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.
Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,” while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.”
MisterForkbeard
@germy: This is what I’m hearing from the Bros on DailyKos as well (lurking there).
The argument is that the media is only calling Bernie a liar because he said he wanted to give out ‘comprehensive’ medical records, when instead he’s only given out the same level as Hillary. They’re saying this is proof the media hates Bernie.
I can’t actually speak to whether or not his level of transparency is the same as Hillary’s. Haven’t bothered to look at them.
Baud
@germy:
It’s like arguing in favor of a flat tax because everyone pays the same rate.
dr. bloor
@PsiFighter37:
No; she’s correct. Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders have all released letters from their physicians identifying past/present health issues and a general evaluation of their health. Sanders’ letter specifically addresses is current (post heart attack) cardiac capacity.
RELEASE THE RECORDS. No one would have a fucking clue as to what they’re looking at.
Chyron HR
@germy:
Okay, imagine Clinton had breast cancer prior to running for President, and when questioned about her health snidely declared that she’s released as many mammogram results as Bernie.
PsiFighter37
@germy: TBH I’m not sure, but it’s still disingenuous as hell – no other 78 year-old candidates had a fucking heart attack a few months ago. That’s a pretty relevant matter. I’d like to see AOC explain why it’s okay for Bernie to be held to the same standard as someone like Mayor Pete, who is definitely not looking like he’s about to keel over. Disingenuous does NOT mean incorrect.
Hope the Berners enjoy a taste of the bullshit they gave Hillary 4 years ago.
mrmoshpotato
@dr. bloor: He’s not detached from reality in terms of his knowledge of his own platform. Millions of people will tell him what he should do once he’s in office, and Mitch will crumble under the weight of the millions of wagging fingers outside his office window.
Adam L Silverman
I’ll just leave this here:
germy
@Chyron HR: Whew!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: You did notice that he left the state to sleep in his hotel in Vegas last night.
dr. bloor
@mrmoshpotato:
I apologize and bend my knee to President Robespie–er, Sanders.
Adam L Silverman
@bmoak: He hasn’t been hit with any of the stuff in this thread either!
germy
@bmoak: Didn’t he also get thrown out of a kibbutz for not helping with chores? And he tried to pass himself off as a contractor. Someone would hire him to build a deck or something, and he’d run to the library for a book on how to build a deck. (Reminds me of some of the contractors I’ve had the misfortune to deal with.)
Betty
@bmoak: I wonder if this is what Bloomberg was threatening to release.
germy
@Baud:
Insisting on one standard rule for all candidates, releasing tax and health records is like a flat tax?
Baud
@germy:
When the candidates are differently situated, and you don’t account for those differences.
Chyron HR
@germy:
OK, fine, but if Bernie gets the nomination and drops dead before election day of his who-could-have-seen-it-coming second heart attack, you owe us a Coke.
germy
@Baud: Who decides?
Okay, Mayor Pete, you’re young, you look healthy. Don’t worry about showing us your medical records.
Elizabeth, you’re old. You know how old people are, with their ailments and all. We’ll need a doctor’s note, plus all your files.
I just think, with all the rules in place about donors and polling before one is allowed on the debate stage, there should be rules in place for releasing tax and health info. Doesn’t matter if you’re young, old, a marathon runner, or if you wheel yourself onstage like Weinstein wheeling himself into a courtroom.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
yeah, but they’ll have single payer to cover all their cancer bills.
Baud
@germy:
The candidates decide. No one can force them to release anything. We can just hold it against them.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Look, he’s pretty up-front about his views on wealth redistribution.
germy
@Chyron HR: No Coke, Pepsi.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: To his daughter.
germy
@bmoak:
I’m sorry, I have trouble imagining that on a Republican billboard. They don’t give a shit about racism or the environment.
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
Bloomberg,
poors, farmers, factory workers, many Democrats POC, Occupy, Warren, not sure if the parts of the “normal” human heart that covers these people just up and died, or was never there to begin with.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Well, if he’s a fan of the benefits of soviet style central planning, that would come with the territory.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Adam L Silverman: This has always been so weird. Sanders made $174,000 as a senator and his wife made $184,717 as president of Burlington College (a private school no less), with social security, close to a combined $400,000 and he kept saying he had no savings. How can that be.
Adam L Silverman
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I don’t know. As far as I know no one knows. Or if someone knows they’re either not talking because they support him and won’t talk or because they don’t support him and are waiting to drop it as a particularly nasty opportunity dump at an inopportune time for him as a candidate. Regardless, if/when that information comes out, I’m sure it won’t be flattering.
Martin
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It’s a lot harder to earn money than to save it, yet most people fuck up the easy part.
Roger Moore
@dr. bloor:
Ordinary people wouldn’t, but news organizations would be able to find cardiologists who would be able to translate them for a lay audience. If there’s genuinely nothing to worry about, there would be a kerfuffle for a few hours and then everyone would go on to the next shiny object.
Cacti
Cool story, bro.
And how many of the other candidates had an infarction on the campaign trail that they tried to conceal from the public?
And of that group, how many promised that they would release their post event medical records, and then reneged?
Roger Moore
@Martin:
Simple ≠ easy! If most people mess it up, that’s probably a sign that it isn’t so easy, even if it’s very simple in principle. I would say that earning money is hard but spending money is easy, so it’s actually very easy to spend as much as you earn and have no money left to save.
Cacti
The 1-year mortality rate of patients having a heart attack after age 75 is 24%.
The 5-year mortality rate is 51%.
The median life expectancy for this group is 3.1 years.
That Bernie thinks it’s less damaging to conceal his medical information than reveal it, implies that there’s some bad news lurking inside.
John Revolta
@germy:
As you should know by now, this has NOTHING to do with whether or not they’d use it against an opponent.
dr. bloor
@Roger Moore:
You wish. It’d be Dr. Oz, Dr. Drew and other equally as fame-whoring guys with MDs trying to bootstrap their hot takez into regular appearances.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Martin: What raises questions is he doesn’t have any outward signs of spending: he wears ill fitted, stained shirts and suits, he doesn’t have a Tesla, he doesn’t travel, etc. Where did the money go – did he gamble the money away? We know he doesn’t give it away.
Nicole
@Cacti: Man, I wish I had this info about 1 hour ago- I got texted by a friend from childhood who spent a lot of time trying to talk me into voting for BS in the primary. It was exhausting; like talking to my right-wing relatives.
So then again, it probably wouldn’t have made a difference.
Roger Moore
@Cacti:
That is a logical assumption, but I’m not 100% convinced it’s correct. I remember that Bernie was also incredibly bad about releasing his taxes, releasing only an uninformative summary in 2016 and being slower than the rest of the candidates to release his in 2019. Lots of people assumed this must mean there was something terrible hidden in his taxes, but when he finally got around to releasing them there wasn’t anything particularly bad in them.
It’s possible that something similar is going on with his medical records, and he isn’t releasing them because he just fails to grasp why anyone thinks it’s relevant. I think that’s a sign of an underlying political problem- he really needs to understand the need for transparency, especially if he hopes to run against Trump- but it doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s hiding anything.
dr. luba
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I hear he owns several houses……..
John Revolta
@Roger Moore: A suspicious person might say he waited until he could release the ten years he wanted us to see.