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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Taking Stock Post Super Tuesday: Why We Are Where We Are

Taking Stock Post Super Tuesday: Why We Are Where We Are

by Adam L Silverman|  March 6, 20205:27 pm| 218 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, America, Domestic Politics, Open Threads, Politicans, Politics

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On Wednesday night commenter dww44 posted that:

Mom is also sad because she cannot understand how we ended up, after such a promising start, with a 77 year old white man and a 78 year old one, both of whom if nominated and elected will be a year older at inaugaration.

I responded to that comment and several of you have either asked if it could be shared or lamented that it should be somewhere more easily accessible than a comment. So here is my response with a couple of minor tweaks:

We ended up here because of a combination of four things. The first is that Senator Sanders has been running non-stop for president since 2016. He never really stopped running when that election ended. This has allowed him to build a large organization to support his candidacy, keep his name recognition high, and mobilize his supporters. The second is Vice President Biden’s name recognition and connection to President Obama. The third is the sad reality of our news media, especially our political news media and how they frame and shape and weight things in a campaign. The fourth and final reason this happened is that the 2020 presidential election is not about Medicare for All or any other specific policy or plan. It is solely a referendum on the President. On whether he gets four more years and the Republic is fully transformed into a white Christian herrenvolk democracy where the rest of us are either considered white on sufferance – for instance Jews – or become some variant of second class citizens if not actual unpersons or whether a hard stop is placed on what he and his administration are trying to do. And because this is the reality of the campaign, and a good part of the context of it, the 2020 presidential election becomes a choice of either “more Trump” or “make it stop”. VP Biden, partially because of his connection to President Obama, partially because of his personal biography, and partially because of his ability to be really and genuinely publicly and privately empathetic and sympathetic personifies this choice.

The 2020 presidential election is really about whether the house (the US) will continue to be burned down by the President, his administration, the GOP, and the conservative movement or whether the fire will be put out, the structure assessed for damage, a determination made about what can be salvaged and refurbished versus what has to be thrown away and replaced with something updated and better. That’s what the election is about. The President obviously represents the arson and burn down the house side of the analogy. VP Biden, better than almost anyone, represents the put the fire out, everyone take a deep breath, assess the damage, and make repairs side of the analogy. Senator Warren, as impressive as she is and despite being the most competent person to oversee the assessments, repairs, and refurbishment, doesn’t convey this. Or, perhaps, she conveys this all too well and it scares far too many Americans, including Democrats. Senator Sanders, however, is the representation of someone who always thought the house was an eyesore and structurally unsound so he wants to accelerate the fire because he has this completely different idea of what should replace it.

The vast majority of Americans just want this administration to stop. Stop here means cease to be, go away, be replaced. They don’t want to have to pay attention every minute of every day to what the President, his administration, his party, and the conservative movement are doing because failure to do so could lead to a terrible outcome for them, their families, and their communities. Most Americans want to be able to go back to not paying attention to who is or is not president for days at a time; to not having to be hyper-vigilant regarding politics. They want the pain to stop. They want the horror to stop. That’s it. And for significant groups within the Democratic coalition they can’t afford to take a risk on revolution. Because they know that it isn’t easy and isn’t safe. And they know that it is always met with overwhelming resistance and pushback from those who want the US to be a white Christian herrenvolk. And that’s why VP Biden has reemerged this week despite his age and his baggage and his malapropisms and occasionally Munchausenian stories. It is why the people with the most to lose in the Democratic coalition who have been the coalition’s and the party’s back bone for decades are supporting VP Biden and rejecting Senator Sanders. And it is why for all that she would be the best of the three as president to actually clean up this mess, Senator Warren can’t get any traction.

The primaries aren’t over. Things may move in a different direction again. The novel Coronavirus and COVID-19, as well as the administration’s response are still outstanding factors that will significant political, economic, and social effects on the remainder of the primary and the general election.

Just remember to vote!

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

218Comments

  1. 1.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 5:31 pm

    Thank you!!! Finally some sanity!

  2. 2.

    germy

    March 6, 2020 at 5:33 pm

    And that’s why VP Biden has reemerged this week despite his age and his baggage and his malapropisms and occasionally Munchausenian stories.

    A good analysis. And normally I don’t pay much attention to VP picks, but this year I’m very curious.

    And I want to know who’ll make up his cabinet as well.

    I saw a quote from someone on the Biden team who said they were interested in many of Warren’s people having a place in his administration. I hope so.

    #TheBatman pic.twitter.com/qJFNprk1ut— Matt Reeves (@mattreevesLA) March 4, 2020

  3. 3.

    sukabi

    March 6, 2020 at 5:35 pm

    I would reorder the list to put the political media at the top of the list. They’re a problem that has persisted for the last 20+ 30 years in pushing information / context free bullshit to the point that Trump gets a free pass to lie and defraud the public on a daily basis.

  4. 4.

    Brachiator

    March 6, 2020 at 5:35 pm

    The second is Vice President Biden’s name recognition and connection to President Obama. The third is the sad reality of our news media, especially our political news media and how they frame and shape and weight things in a campaign.

    Also I think that Biden was able to slip in because, even though there were dozens of candidates early on, none of them really stood out or evoked any excitement.  They were all pretty good and had supporters, none of them really made a clear case that they deserved to the the party standard bearer.

    Even Warren, maybe the best of the bunch, could not translate her early positive poll results into primary votes.  Even people who liked her policies were not sold on her as a candidate.

    And of course, there was the stupid, destructive misogyny which undermined the women candidates no matter what they did.

  5. 5.

    bluehill

    March 6, 2020 at 5:36 pm

    SXSW has been cancelled. Last year they estimated it contributed $355 million to the Austin economy. Impact of this and a growing number of other cancellations will ripple through economy over the next several months. This is what Trump is afraid of, but the irony is the more he tries to control it the worse the situation will become. When the number of testing kits increases, there could be a spike in the number of cases as testing starts to catch up. Given the current path the administration is taking, I don’t think the reaction is going to be good.

    If Trump put someone credible in charge of the response, I think the markets could rally, but that would require admitting he was wrong so probably not going to happen until it gets much worse.

  6. 6.

    Martin

    March 6, 2020 at 5:38 pm

    Let’s not underestimate the possibility that a lot of people decided that rather than a revolution they just wanted a president who could get coronavirus tests distributed.

    I don’t need an inspirational mechanic – just make my car work reliably.

  7. 7.

    Martin

    March 6, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    @bluehill: Could? The number of cases will go up 10x. Our fatality rate is 10x anyone else’s. That’s only because we’ve only bothered to test 1/10 of the people that are sick with it.

    #Don’tTestDon’tTell

  8. 8.

    germy

    March 6, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    With respect — and I write this as a senior advisor to the Biden campaign — Sen. Warren attracted a remarkable group of foreign policy thinkers and innovators who would be the envy of any campaign and who will play critical roles if there is a democratic administration. https://t.co/sU3imrApIe— Antony Blinken (@ABlinken) March 6, 2020

    Not Warren, though. Biden has said we need her in the senate. I agree.

  9. 9.

    KSinMA

    March 6, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    Thanks again for reposting, Adam. That’s a good ‘un.

  10. 10.

    Yutsano

    March 6, 2020 at 5:41 pm

    This is not a post on the possible defeat of Netanyahu. I am disappoint.

    On topic: I sort of had this itch in my brain it was going to be Unca Joe in the end. Mainly because I knew he would be strong once the race hit South Carolina. What I didn’t expect is that outside of the first two he would be that strong everywhere. Yes we want President Toadface gone. I hope Unca Joe will finally rid us of this horrible interregnum.

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    @germy: If elected, you’ll see a lot of the people that were on his Nat-Sec and policy teams as Vice President either in the principle or senior deputy positions (2 and 3 slots) in his cabinet. Then you’d see people like me, hopefully including me as I’d apply and work my connections, filling in the next couple of rungs down in the positions that don’t require senatorial confirmation. Followed by a bunch of younger people who you’ll have never heard of.

  12. 12.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    @sukabi: The order in the list is simply the result of it coming out of my head that way, not order of importance.

  13. 13.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 5:43 pm

    @bluehill: Yeah that won’t happen. At the CDC trump bragged about his uncle the MIT professor and said maybe that’s why all of the stuff comes naturally to him.

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    @Martin: Fine, you write the post next time!//

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    @Martin: I’m not even sure we’ve tested that much. We’ve tested about 1,600 people total based on the latest reporting I just saw. And I’m rounding up a bit. It is somewhere in the mid 1,500s. We have absolutely no idea at all how widespread this thing is in the US.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    March 6, 2020 at 5:46 pm

    This is the part where it stops making sense for me:

    And it is why for all that she would be the best of the three as president to actually clean up this mess, Senator Warren can’t get any traction.

    I mean, if a demon-toddler is running amok through the house starting fires, turning over trash cans and smearing shit all over the walls, I’ll take the lady standing there with a demon-toddler trap, broom, bucket, mop, squeegee and fire extinguisher instead of confuzzled grandpa.

    I don’t get it. I’ll never get it. But thanks for trying to Americasplain. :)

  17. 17.

    robmassing

    March 6, 2020 at 5:46 pm

    Yes. Four years of Stop the Bleeding, during which we can can start thinking about, planning for, and possibly beginning to build, a way forward.

  18. 18.

    germy

    March 6, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Then you’d see people like me, hopefully including me as I’d apply and work my connections, filling in the next couple of rungs down in the positions that don’t require senatorial confirmation.

    NYT Headline:  “Prominent Balloon-Juice Front Pager Unable To Secure Senate Confirmation”

  19. 19.

    taumaturgo

    March 6, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    Guest who else is extremely excited about Biden’s resurgence. A sight of relief that their fleecing will be allowed to continue unabated.

    “UnitedHealth’s Stock Soars After Biden’s Strong Showing…Shares of UnitedHealth Group Inc. UNH, -2.93% soared 10.4% in premarket trading Wednesday, as Joe Biden’s strong showing on Super Tuesday assuaged fears over the potential negative impact from “Medicare for All” being proposed by Senator Bernie Sanders. The stock’s implied price gain would add about 185 points to the Dow Jones Industrial Average’s DJIA, -3.73% price, while Dow futures YMH20, -3.11% surged 643 points. Among others in the managed care business, shares of Anthem Inc. ANTM, -4.51% hiked up 9.6% ahead of the open, Humana Inc. HUM, +0.24% jumped 7.8%, Centene Corp. CNC, -3.54% ran up 8.3% and Cigna Corp. C, -5.34% surged 10.9%.”

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    @Yutsano

    Blech. Wish we could ditch the cutesy nicknames. We’re not voting for uncle.

    Every time I see “Uncle Joe” all it calls to mind is Stalin.

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    @Yutsano: He’s now 3 down. He has no way to make up that deficit. I don’t see Lieberman agreeing to join Gantz’s bloc unless Gantz removes the Joint List from the potential coalition, which would take Gantz’s votes from being 7 down to 8 down as there are 15 Joint List members of Knesset and only 7 on Lieberman’s list.

  22. 22.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 5:48 pm

    Adam –

    That’s all very well and good, but I need to see a Democrat who gives me a reason to vote for him. None of this “no Trump” crap. What does the Democrat Party stand for? It can’t be the same old corporatist crap that they all push — especially Al Gore, who was no different from Bush — they need to excite me!

    Amazingly enough, I wrote the above without collapsing from either laughing or crying. But I expect I’ll hear shit like the above from persons who claim they’re Democrats. And, although I’m old, weak, and somewhat of a candy-ass, I may try to rip the throat out of the first person who says shit like that to me, and they’re being serious. [If I do that, I’ll write to y’all from the hospital, where I’ll doubtless be recovering (if I’m lucky) from getting my ass whupped.]

  23. 23.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:48 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t get it either. I agree with you 100%. It is, unfortunately, what it is. Even if what it is is not logical.

  24. 24.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 5:49 pm

    @NotMax:

    Every time I see “Uncle Joe” all it calls to mind is Stalin.

    Yeah, me too.

  25. 25.

    bluehill

    March 6, 2020 at 5:50 pm

    @Martin: yeah, you’re right. Just don’t want to sound like I have any special insight into this. I read that they have tested around 2000 people in the U.S. and that there are only enough kits to test a few thousand people a day, but that’s expected to grow as will the number of infected people.

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    @germy: I cannot secure Senate confirmation. The things I’ve written, both inside and outside of the government, both classified and unclassified regarding the Israeli-Palestinian dispute would prevent that from happening. Also, I’m not senior enough to be put forward for one of the Senate confirmable positions. I’m senior enough for a director of policy or strategy and special or senior advisor positions within DOD and the Department of the Army or a senior director position on the National Security Staff. These types of positions are what one of my senior mentors, who is connected to the current administration but not in it, wanted to put me in for in early to mid 2017. And that after we discussed it, decided that he should not do so for all that I’m flattered that he thinks I’m ready to make that jump, but unable to do so given who the current President is and the approach of his people to personnel matters.

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    But she’s SOOOOO schoolmarmish, and talks down to us by using facts, and she should smile more, and what about her e-mails lying about being a full-blooded Comanche? Answer me THAT, libtard!!!

    We’re here, in no small part, because the Rethugs have done their best to destroy a viable public education system over the last 40-plus years, and have largely succeeded.

  28. 28.

    Martin

    March 6, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    19 crew, 2 guests test positive for nCoV on Grand Princess now off the coast of SF. Completely preventable.

    Feds have no plans to get them off the ship. Say they have no protocol or place to put them.

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 5:55 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You arrogant so-and-so, germy was talking about Freddie deBore, not you.

  30. 30.

    Martin

    March 6, 2020 at 5:56 pm

    Israel considering travel restrictions from the US.

    #WorldWarZ

  31. 31.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 5:56 pm

    @Martin: trump said he doesn’t want them to get off because they could change the numbers in the country.    yup that’s our trump

  32. 32.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @SFAW: I’m not sure who that is, but okay.

    And yes, I am an arrogant son of a bitch.

  33. 33.

    hueyplong

    March 6, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I think people remembered how Hillary was treated, saw the media doing a version of it to Warren when she first started making a favorable impression, and decided to play it safe by choosing someone who had been there, has hanging outside genitalia, and has already had the planned dirty tricks campaign against him exposed as BS by Nancy, Schiff, et al.

     

    [All that said, I voted for Warren.]

  34. 34.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 5:59 pm

    @Martin:

    What.

    Isolating 21 patients is possible.

    Not isolating them means 2000 infected, and soon.

    We don’t have capacity for that, except that in a convenient catch-22 the ship itself serves the purpose.

    It’s reacting as though the outbreak is currently contained, which it obviously is not.

  35. 35.

    evodevo

    March 6, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    Thank you!

  36. 36.

    Ohio Mom

    March 6, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    All know is, as sad as I am about not being able to vote for Warren, my overall mood has improved dramatically.

    Just being able to assume Joe Biden will be president within a year (!) has lowered my anxiety appreciably. Now if Ohio Dad would find a job (he’s looking hard), I could be absolutely giddy.

    Did I announce the crocuses in the front yard are up and blooming. That’s also been a mood-lifter.

  37. 37.

    patrick II

    March 6, 2020 at 6:02 pm

    If you are a 77 year-old politician running for office right now — when do you stop shaking hands with supporters at rallies? I assume about now. I would guess Senator Warren’s selfie line would be curtailed if she was still in.

    This may be an even stranger than we expected run for the presidency.  Maybe Bloomberg had the right idea — all TV ads.

  38. 38.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    @Repatriated: I’m glad that Imma and little Imma’s travel plans have changed.    I think trump wants to keep all those folks on the boat.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Pence is on tv kissing trump’s ass again.

  40. 40.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    @patrick II:

     

    Maybe Bloomberg had the right idea — all TV ads.

    Which gets you nearly all of the delegates from American Samoa.

  41. 41.

    Mai naem mobile

    March 6, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I think people(well,Dems) are shit scared about Trumpov and are choosing what they think is the safest path to victory. Maybe there is sexism but I think it’s more straight out fear of losing than sexism. I was listening to the Dan Abrams show on Sirius and he brought up the Bursima hacking of a few months ago. I had forgotten about that. You damn well know we are going to be treated to another nine months of drip drip drip of Burisma emails. I hope to fuck that the House Dems have shit on Javanka and Jr to counter the Burisma shit or we are really going to regret not nominating Warren.

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    @patrick II: I’ve stopped shaking hands.

  43. 43.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    Warren urged by National Organization for Women not to endorse Sanders, told he has “done next to nothing for women”

    https://www.newsweek.com/warren-urged-national-organization-women-not-endorse-sanders-1490872

  44. 44.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    Very well put, thanks, Adam. It can’t be said enough that the most vulnerable are avoiding the “revolution” like a coughing Italian, and for damn good reason.

  45. 45.

    sdhays

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I think that really all boils down to misogyny. Hillary had to deal with actual misogyny, and all of the women candidates this year had to deal with that AND the palpable fear of misogyny giving us more Dump and Republican governance – perhaps for a very long time.

    I don’t agree with that, but I understand it.

    ETA: Not that there weren’t other reasons not to vote for this or that candidate, just that all the women candidates were running with this as a major drag

    ETA2: I expect Biden to name a woman as his running mate. I think he’ll see part of his legacy as helping calm the country into breaking that glass ceiling after him. Similar to his part as the loyal running mate of the first black President is part of his personal legacy that he can be proud of.

  46. 46.

    Brachiator

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @taumaturgo:

    Guest who else is extremely excited about Biden’s resurgence. A sight of relief that their fleecing will be allowed to continue unabated.

    It’s a damn shame that Sanders is a fraud, an empty gas bag, and that Warren is out of the race.

    We need someone who can develop a real universal health care plan

  47. 47.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @Mai naem mobile: I’ll have the next Black PSYOP post up over the weekend.

  48. 48.

    sukabi

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @germy: it will be the associations he maintains. ???

  49. 49.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @JPL:
    Seems likely. Pretending it’s contained is all they’ve got, and that would be consistent with that policy.

    They’re managing it like a PR crisis rather than a medical one.

  50. 50.

    Redshift

    March 6, 2020 at 6:09 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t get it either. I agree with you 100%. It is, unfortunately, what it is. Even if what it is is not logical. 

    I think it’s more logical than it seems, even if I obviously don’t agree with voters’ conclusions. But consider if your mindset is that nothing matters until Trump is removed, and the plus side of anything else doesn’t matter if it makes that any less likely.

    Biden launched his campaign in the theme of beating Trump, and nothing else.

    Warren was always at least several points back from Biden in head-to-head polling against Trump (and sometimes not beating him.)

    Granting the idea that Warren was the most competent, she was proposing big changes. I agreed with her that many of those were necessary to not just get us back to pre-Trump, but to a place that isn’t the one that led to Trump. *But,* to a lot of people that could instead convey trying to replace the wings in mid-flight.

    The dynamic at play is extreme risk aversion.

  51. 51.

    Calouste

    March 6, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    I was pleasantly surprised to see a tweet from someone at CBS about a comment from the shitgibbon about Covid testing that started with “FALSE:”

  52. 52.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    @Mai naem mobile

    Whether that or something else, whether him or someone else, there was always gonna be a guarantee of a shitskrieg.

  53. 53.

    West of the Rockies

    March 6, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    @Martin:

    Here in NorCal, I don’t know they’re even testing.  My girlfriend went in on Monday, tested negative for influenza and pneumonia, but was not tested for Covid 19.  After a week, she’s on the mend.

  54. 54.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 6, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    It makes me sad to watch Biden sometimes. Not because he’s losing it or whatever. He’s just an old man whose speech impediment is a lot harder to manage nowadays. And sure, he tells onion-belt stories; but that’s just what old men do. But still, lots of pathos, lots of reminders of the place where we’ll all end up (if we’re lucky).

    Not to be too morbid; he’s obviously in fine health. Just saying.

  55. 55.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @davidsirota
    The threats against me & others on our campaign on this website have become increasingly aggressive. I’m not talking about mean tweets of C-Span videos. I’m talking about open threats and calls for harm. I have a pretty thick skin, but this is not OK.

    4,940
    12:17 PM – Mar 6, 2020

    Threats and stalking are not ok on any side, but I find it rich that Sirota, who’s never lacks a bullshit way to incite folks, has the nerve.

    Oh , but then again, I’m sure he’s responsible for this bit of irony too…

    @BernieSanders
    Follow Follow @BernieSanders
    More
    .@JoeBiden must accept responsibility for his surrogate telling our campaign co-chair Senator @NinaTurner that she doesn’t have standing to invoke the words of Dr. King. That is unacceptable and Joe must apologize to Nina and all the people of color supporting our campaign.

    2:35 PM – 6 Mar 2020

    Bernie Sanders telling folks they should control their surrogate (Rosen ISN’T an offical Biden surrogat, btw unlike Sirota and Turner and West who love to incite…but ok…) is some nerve.

    Oh but THIS is the guy some folks plan to turn to instead of Biden…smh

  56. 56.

    Calouste

    March 6, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I noticed in 2016 that whenever a positive article about Sanders was referenced on Daily Kos, the article turned out to be written by a young white expensively educated guy.

  57. 57.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 6, 2020 at 6:14 pm

    @taumaturgo: “UnitedHealth’s Stock Soars After Biden’s Strong Showing…Shares of UnitedHealth Group Inc. UNH, -2.93% soared 10.4% in premarket trading Wednesday, as Joe Biden’s strong showing on Super Tuesday assuaged fears over the potential negative impact from “Medicare for All” being proposed by Senator Bernie Sanders.

    Who the fuck cares? This just tells me that stock traders don’t know how congress works.

  58. 58.

    Calouste

    March 6, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    @lamh36: Nina Turner has as much claim to the title of Senator as Tina Turner.

  59. 59.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    This just tells me that stock traders don’t know how congress works.

    Why expect them to be smarter than anyone else?

  60. 60.

    West of the Rockies

    March 6, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    Sure been a metric shit-ton of articles about Warren the past few days.  When she was running, she got scant attention.

  61. 61.

    UncleEbeneezer

    March 6, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    Biden has also put in significant time building trust with the Black Community.  No other candidate has.  I love Warren and think she could build something like that had she started years ago, but that sort of thing takes time.  Like him or not Biden has done that and we are now seeing the dividends.

  62. 62.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 6, 2020 at 6:19 pm

    @Repatriated: everybody else isn’t running around calling themselves masters of the universe.

  63. 63.

    sdhays

    March 6, 2020 at 6:20 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: They’re always just looking for a reason to buy or sell. It doesn’t have to make sense because they only care about the sale. The underlying companies are irrelevant.

  64. 64.

    Chyron HR

    March 6, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @lamh36:

    The threats against me & others on our campaign on this website have become increasingly aggressive. I’m not talking about mean tweets of C-Span videos. I’m talking about open threats and calls for harm.

    I’ll take “Things That Never Happened’ for 500.

  65. 65.

    Leto

    March 6, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You were never that cordial to begin with… :P

  66. 66.

    Amir Khalid

    March 6, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    COVID-19 will lead to a major cultural change worldwide: to avoid contagion, people will give up shaking hands; instead they’ll just wave to each other from ten feet away. You heard it here first.

  67. 67.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    @Calouste: I forget was she an Ohio state Senator or Representatives?

  68. 68.

    sukabi

    March 6, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @Repatriated: cruise ships are giant petri dishes with shared air ventilation. Ship off SF will end up with many infected individuals like the ship off Japan did. They don’t have isolation rooms or protocols in place to deal….or the medical staff.

  69. 69.

    Tazj

    March 6, 2020 at 6:23 pm

    @JPL: It’s a wonderful quality in a President isn’t it? A person who always considers how situations will effect him first?

  70. 70.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: They’re mechanics (or maybe engineers) who work on money instead of tangible things.

    This means they get money. Money can hide a lot of stupidity.

  71. 71.

    Yutsano

    March 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @taumaturgo: Your tears are almost as delicious as wingnut tears.

    Almost.

  72. 72.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @Redshift:

    The dynamic at play is extreme risk aversion.

    No doubt that you are correct here.

    The problem is that different people calculate said risks much differently — depending on their starting POV (based on age, gender, race, ideology etc) — and because older voters are driving the primary dynamic, the risks of running Biden have been (mostly) discounted.

    I also think that much of the split between the older/moderate vs younger/progressive (sorry for the reductive binary) is a function of a very different perspective on where today’s political risks lie.

    For the latter the real risk is not doing enough… at a time in history when we have a raft of seemingly intractable, societal and species-threatening problems. They see no future for themselves, democratic society, or the planet if we don’t make a major course correction, and immediately.

    For older, more moderate voters the risk following the Trump era seems to be in reaching too high, when a return to political calm and normalcy (whatever that means) is all that’s desired.

    Maybe some of the rift is a result of the time horizon over which you are evaluating that risk: a young person whose looking 50 years (or more) into the future might have a very different perspective on it than an old fart (I’m early 60’s so approaching that status :) whose looking to ride out the next 20 years — without their formerly comfortable world completely falling apart, due to the Orange Menace and all he represents

    The other aspect is one of relative economic security: older farts are more likely to have established some level of it and therefore have something to lose if there’s too much change. (an example would be those with good private insurance plans — any substantive change —M4A— may be negative for them personally).

    For someone younger, without medical insurance, savings, home equity or career prospects, massive change is much less frightening because all they see is upside (this could be equally true for an older voter that’s been left behind by the modern economy – or has always been excluded from full participation for any number of reasons).

  73. 73.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Silverman 2020!

    Russia Question: Assuming we de-ass the Whitehouse, how viable is going after the oligarch’s finances now that they can just park their cash in the North Sea Caimans (fka the UK)? Or does our response need to shift to a different axis?

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    @lamh36: Ouch!

  75. 75.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @sdhays: This. The sales narrative doesn’t have any need to be correct, merely plausible.

  76. 76.

    Betty Cracker

    March 6, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s such a crap-shoot, the toll age takes. So individual. My dad is a few years younger than Biden but sharp as a tack still, though he’s breaking down physically, which is painful to watch.

  77. 77.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Bluntly? The rest of America does not trust white folks to do what we ought to.

    Hard for this white boy to blame ’em, either.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    @Redshift: I get that part. I don’t get the we can’t risk picking the most competent person to do this because she’s a woman bit.

  79. 79.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    March 6, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    @lamh36: desperate attempt to deflect from yesterday’s strong  condemnation by Elizabeth Warren of the Bernie Bros and Bernie’s indifference.

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 6:29 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure who that is, but okay.

    It’s actually Freddie deBoer. He was here between five and 10 years ago, I think he was supposed to be the token “centrist” on the front page. He was not especially well-liked by the Juicetariat, nor is he much missed. He ended up (or maybe had also done so before coming here) writing for some middle-of-the-road online rag, like Reason (yes, I know Reason is not really MotR), or something similar.

  81. 81.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:29 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Read this:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/01/joe-biden-stutter-profile/602401/

  82. 82.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    @Repatriated:

    Which gets you nearly all of the delegates from American Samoa.

    Well, in fairness, Bloomberg had a steep hill to climb, due to Tulsi’s massive GOTV/ground game there.

  83. 83.

    Calouste

    March 6, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    @lamh36: State Senator apparently, but unless in direct context of the actual state Senate, no one calls those people “Senator”. I see she has an awesome electoral history: got appointed to that seat when the incumbent resigned, and then got re-elected unopposed… (And after that, lost by 25 points when running for Secretary of State.)

  84. 84.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Leto: I am soooo sorry that my suggestion to use head butting instead of hand shakes as both formal and informal greetings was not met with more support!

  85. 85.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I mean it’s true.  So when I see women, EW supporters talking about voting for Bernie is infuriates me.

    Where is the evidence that Bernie has done ANYTHING worthwhile on gender issues?

    There isn’t, cause for Bernie, it’s all about class, not racism, not gender…JUST class.  Just ignore how the underlying racism and misygony feeds into into class disparities as well.

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I have no doubt.

  87. 87.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @lamh36: Ohio state senator.

  88. 88.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I have! It’s good!

  89. 89.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @notcapnamerica

    FollowingFollowing @notcapnamerica

    More

    Biden outperforms Bernie in counties with lower incomes and more voters of color. I thought Bernie was building a working class movement and Biden was the establishment backed by billionaires?

     

    @NPR
    How Biden and Sanders performed among voters in counties with:

    • High unemployment (Biden: 43%, Sanders: 26%)
    • Lowest education levels (Biden: 49%, Sanders: 22%)
    • Low median household incomes (Biden: 50%, Sanders: 21%) https://trib.al/vBMLlP8

  90. 90.

    sukabi

    March 6, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @lamh36: think that’s a reaction to Warren’s interview with Maddow yesterday…Warren called out Sanders’ campaign for not reigning in their supporters who were abusive / threatening. Said her conversation with Sanders about that was short.

  91. 91.

    Lapassionara

    March 6, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @DB11: job one is to have a Democrat be president, and also have a house and senate majority. Trump has eviserated the federal government. Not only does he have “acting” cabinet members, he has failed to fill many jobs at lower levels (or his cabinet secretaries have). This is the emergency that needs to be addressed, and soon, or we are not going to have any kind of plan for the future.

    Even undoing all of the proposed rule changes, re environment, public lands, alternative energy, and the like would help set us on a more sustainable future. We have gone backwards with respect to the important issues, and the first step is to start going forward again.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @Yutsano: You’re going to have to swear of tear drinking until we have a handle on the novel Coronavirus and COVID-19.

  93. 93.

    SFAW

    March 6, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t get the we can’t risk picking the most competent person to do this because she’s a woman bit.

    As with racism, misogyny does not make a whole lot of sense — but it’s a lot more present than some rational people would like to believe.

  94. 94.

    Peale

    March 6, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I prefer to wai

  95. 95.

    Mai naem mobile

    March 6, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @NotMax: absolutely but I think Warren is the cleanest of the bunch. I think the Native American blood/Harvard affirmative action deal was pretty much the biggie. I don’t think her general retirement investments in banking would have done much. The pocahontas stuff would have gotten old and not even gained traction. I just personally feel a woman on the debate stage with Trumpov would have been a great contrast and Americans wouldn’t have liked him bullying a woman.  Hillary was an exceptional situaton .

  96. 96.

    WereBear

    March 6, 2020 at 6:34 pm

    @Betty Cracker: As the posts says:

    Or, perhaps, she conveys this all too well and it scares far too many Americans, including Democrats.

     

    I don’t feel there’s any “normal” left to go back to. President Obama’s two terms burned out any remaining brain cells in the Trumpists, and they roared into backlash with a vengeance.

    I know most people just want the fire put out.

    But I have a higher than average tolerance for change. I also want to go over there, arrest the arsonist, and burn their house down. So they won’t do it again.

  97. 97.

    jk

    March 6, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    How we ended up, after such a promising start with

    Biden’s name recognition and the fact that he served as VP to a very popular President are the reasons he ascended to the top spot.  His success is why we need public financing of campaigns.  If Gillibrand, Booker, Inslee, Harris, Bennett, Bullock et al had the financial resources to match Biden’s name recognition, I don’t believe he’d be this close to securing the nomination.

  98. 98.

    Yutsano

    March 6, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Yer no fun.

    I also saw the headbutting comment. While that is indeed the method drunk Marines use to communicate affection, I don’t think a gentleman of your caliber should be engaging in such activities.

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    March 6, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    @Martin: Thank you, seriously

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:38 pm

    @Subsole: We have the tools to find all the money and seize it. We lack the will to do so.

    My view is that it will require a far more robust response to resolve this problem and end the undeclared interstate war that Putin has been waging against us and our EU and NATO allies. Specifically we will need to reduce Russia. And I’m using reduce in the military doctrinal sense that equates to the Latin delenda est. I know that doesn’t sound very nice. And I know it means a lot of people who are just trying to survive in Russia will be killed, hurt, and made to suffer even more. But the time has come to remove Russia from both the international system and relegate it solely to history.

  101. 101.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:38 pm

    @JPL:

    The least he could have done was put them up at a Trump property at no expense. //

  102. 102.

    WereBear

    March 6, 2020 at 6:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Do the Vulcan hand signal instead of hand shaking.

  103. 103.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:38 pm

    WOW!!! Some 3,533 people are currently aboard the Grand Princess

    21 aboard Grand Princess cruise ship test positive for coronavirus as vessel remains in limbo https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-06/passengers-aboard-cruise-ship-hit-by-coronavirus-confined-to-their-quarters

  104. 104.

    cokane

    March 6, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    The current state of the race isn’t all that surprising. The candidates who were the two front runners back when the field was crowded are the two remaining candidates now. Each of them representing different ideological wings of the party. It’s a pretty textbook presidential primary.

    I don’t buy the arguments about misogyny in the media or whatever in this primary. Maybe some voters weighed that in their decisions, and so gravitated towards safer seeming candidates. But the last two winners of these primaries have been a woman and a black man. And if anything, candidates like Warren got glowing media coverage (and are still getting it). It’s the voters that didn’t warm to her.

  105. 105.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    @SFAW: Okay, now I know who you’re referring to.

  106. 106.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    Is there any information on the effectiveness of Operation Chaos, Rush’s program for getting conservatives to show up and vote for Sanders just to goose his numbers? Is there any way to know if it worked?

  107. 107.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:39 pm

     

     

    @Redshift: Catastrophe makes people more conservative. Epispde MMDCCXXVIII.

  108. 108.

    japa21

    March 6, 2020 at 6:39 pm

    Off track.  Yesterday I mentioned that I work part time in a Costco doing food demonstrations.  These are contracted out by Costco to a separate company which is my employer.  Just got a call from my boss that all demonstrations are currently suspended until March 22 at the earliest.  Apparently this is due to a concern about availability of product due to supply chain issues.  It is not, apparently, due to virus concerns (not sure I believe that).

    The good news is that Costco, in order to maintain the relationship with our company, will have us work in the warehouse doing odd jobs and pay us at our current rate (slightly below the Costco rate) wile this is happening.  Estimated $4 million dollars under the current time line. And they will not be cutting any of their regular employees hours.

    Not sure just how long this will last.

  109. 109.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    @lamh36: I’m not disputing why they’ve issued the statement. I’m just saying there will be a lot of people upset at the HQ in Burlington because of it.

  110. 110.

    Repatriated

    March 6, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    There’s a lot to be said for a having a nominee whose coattails are safe for purple-state candidates to grab onto.

     

    Yeah, that could have been Warren too, but name-rec and the media are what they are.  Damn it.

  111. 111.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    @japa21:

    I worked from home today as part of a test of the company’s resilience. After a long, frustrating day of drops and freezes, I can confirm we are not resilient.

  112. 112.

    Yutsano

    March 6, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    @WereBear: It’s perfectly logical. Vulcans are touch telepaths. That sort of ability would preclude any sort of intimate touching. Which makes one wonder how sex would work exactly.

    EDIT: Yes I know there are fan fictions out there that cover this exact issue. So not going there. I’m pushing BJ After Dark as it is.

  113. 113.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    @debbie: Wait until he finds out that most of those folks are white and a certain age group that votes for him.

  114. 114.

    Lapassionara

    March 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    Oh my, I just saw a clip of Trump saying that anybody in the US who wants to get the test for the novel Coronavirus can get it.

    delusional.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    @lamh36: Well the President’s supporters are all economically anxious!//

    via GIPHY

  116. 116.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    But…but…insulin!

    ‘Cause you know THAT gem is coming next…

  117. 117.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:43 pm

    @lamh36:

    And most of them are over 70. That’s some petrie dish for the virus!

  118. 118.

    WereBear

    March 6, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:But the time has come to remove Russia from both the international system and relegate it solely to history.

     
    They are at war with the rest of the world. That should be acknowledged.

  119. 119.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    @Lapassionara: He also said this “You know my Uncle was a great — he was at MIT. He taught at MIT for a record number of years. He was a great super genius, Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it…Maybe I have a natural ability.”

    Tomorrow on Fox they will question whether or not Biden is senile.

  120. 120.

    cokane

    March 6, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    If there’s any media bias revealed by this primary, it’s that the news media and news consumers focus on politics and not government. People are focused on the campaigning but not on policy.

    Candidates did not do well because of holding important offices or because of significant past policy accomplishments. Instead, the candidates that did the best were the candidates who have gained visibility through political campaigning (Sanders in 16, Biden in 08 and 12).

    The public, generally speaking, doesn’t seem interested in things like legislation. People barely gave candidates like Harris a look, even though she represents one of the largest constituencies of anybody in the primary. And the news media aren’t interested in spending resources on stories that the public won’t consume.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    @lamh36: Fixed it for you.

    WOW!!! Some 3,533 pre-deceased people are currently aboard the Grand Princess

  122. 122.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 6, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    @JPL:

    At the CDC trump bragged about his uncle the MIT professor and said maybe that’s why all of the stuff comes naturally to him.

    I didn’t hear that, but just saw a clip of him on NBC Nightly News that showed him at the CDC (wearing a red MAGA cap) saying “The [COVID19] tests are perfect. Just like the letter was perfect. Just like the transcript was perfect.”

  123. 123.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    @debbie: Apparently it was overwhelmed by Operation Clyburn.

  124. 124.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:46 pm

    @JPL:

    I missed this. What are they doing instead?

  125. 125.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:46 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh I didn’t think you were.  I was just expounding on how frustrating it makes me to see women supporters of Warren so ready to jump to Bernie…smh

  126. 126.

    Amir Khalid

    March 6, 2020 at 6:46 pm

    @WereBear:

    And don’t forget to say, “Live long and prosper.”

  127. 127.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I see a marketing opportunity here.

    Hand-on-a-Stick. Sold in matching pairs, endlessly customizable, in every style from casual to business formal. Available in children’s and plus sizes.

  128. 128.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: lordt….it’s basically a sitting germ incubator…

  129. 129.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    One underrated reason for why the Democrats are where they are with two venerable candidates still vying for the nomination is the massive political losses at every level below the White House sustained during the Obama years.  Normally you’d expect a couple of charismatic 50 something governors to be a strong part of the race as well as the usual Senators and longshot congressperson. The bench needs to be restocked at every level. Hopefully the Blue Wave has begun that process, but there’s still a ways to go.  I really hope we see Steve Bullock winning the Senate seat in Montana and talented politicians like Beto going back to fight for Texas. We need good candidates to win their states over much more than we need them indulging in vanity runs for the nomination.

  130. 130.

    cokane

    March 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    @lamh36: It’s shouldn’t seem weird at all. They’re ideologically similar candidates.

  131. 131.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm

    @debbie: Trying to get his money back.   Besides that I’m not sure.

  132. 132.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:49 pm

    @WereBear: I acknowledge it all the time.

  133. 133.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 6:49 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    One certainly hopes so. Speaking of, NPR’s Story Court feature today was Clyburn reminiscing with his granddaughter about his early failures and successes.

    It’s worth listening to.

  134. 134.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 6:49 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: The local networks covered his statements and I had to mute the tv several times cuz it was typical trump.

  135. 135.

    NotMax

    March 6, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    @debbie

    It’s election theater. Absent any data to the contrary, I strongly doubt the numbers of any who showed up were enough to move the needle in any statistically significant fashion.

  136. 136.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    @JPL: Fixed it for you:

    Tomorrow Right now on Fox they will are questioning whether or not Biden is senile.

  137. 137.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 6, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Followed by a bunch of younger people who you’ll have never heard of.

    While my son is not a Biden fan, I’m pretty sure he’d be delighted to take a foreign policy job in a Biden administration.

  138. 138.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    March 6, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: This is like the Død Kalm episode of “The X-Files”

  139. 139.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: And then he declared on live national and cable TV news that anyone who wants or needs a test, which are, and I’m quoting directly, “beautiful”, can have a test.

  140. 140.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    @lamh36: Battered supporter syndrome?

  141. 141.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 6:52 pm

    @Lapassionara: Oh I agree.

    We have to put our shoulders to the Trump flywheel of destruction and and bring it to a full stop before we can reverse the momentum and start rebuilding — and there’s a tremendous amount of work to be done just to get back to zero.

    But while implementing individual initiatives must, by nature, be sequential and incremental, the overarching vision that drives political priorities (and the willingness to work towards/pay for them) is more what I’m referring to. And it must meld multiple, parallel tracks, with all their interdependencies, into a coherent and comprehensive umbrella master plan.

    Younger and more progressive voters want and need a more inspiring future vision to become fully invested in the political process. We can lament that fact  —and/or call them stupid, and naive — but they perceive a Biden presidency as simply re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

    And in a certain way I agree with them. That’s why I was a Warren supporter: because she’s the only one that marries the ambitious forward-thinking vision with detailed and doable plans that inexorably lay the foundation for a functioning and sustainable future. (And the only one with the required combination of intelligence, knowledge and bandwidth to be able to deal with multiple concurrent complex problems and their solutions.)

    Which was the basis for the belief that she was the one potential Dem leader that could meld the currently warring factions, because she has something in her approach (and being)  to potentially appeal to almost every Dem voter.

    We really fucked this one up. And if Bernie had sat this one out and played the elder progressive statesman role, it would have been a very different race — whether Biden entered or not.

  142. 142.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:52 pm

    @lamh36: Unfortunately.

  143. 143.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    @cokane: one who is cramp on gender issues (Bernie).

     

    As a Black woman, Bernie’s issues w/race and gender issues are enough for me to never hand him my support UNLESS I have to in a general…and even then I’ll admit it will still be hard.  but like most Black women voters, Dems can rely on my vote even for a candidate I rather not have.  The problem is, and this is another reason why Black voters have gon for Biden, Black folks don’t believe their white counterparts would do the same, especially after what white voters did in 2016 with HRC.

  144. 144.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:53 pm

    @tribelaw
    Following Following @tribelaw
    More
    Bernie recently said whoever wins a plurality of the delegates on the first ballot should become the nominee (though he said otherwise in 2016). Once it’s clear he can’t possibly win a plurality on the first ballot, will he flip yet again? Asking for an opportunist friend.

    4:25 PM – 6 Mar 2020

    So what’s the over/under of Bernie sticking to his word…hmmm..

  145. 145.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Unlike the current administration, there will not be loyalty tests.

  146. 146.

    cokane

    March 6, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    @DB11: Warren never caught on, and greatly underperformed Sanders.

  147. 147.

    Mike in NC

    March 6, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    @Lapassionara: He also said that the tests were ‘beautiful’ (maybe ‘perfect’ is reserved for the blackmailing phone calls).

  148. 148.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I watched that when it was aired.

  149. 149.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 6:57 pm

    @lamh36: He’s already moved the goalposts to whomever gets the most votes, not delegates, but votes in the primaries.

  150. 150.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 6:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Right…already have Bernie bros supporters and journos doing exactly that…not even just Fox news

  151. 151.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thank you for the response. To be clear: how direct a reduction are we talking? Like “weapons free” direct? Or more of a “raze the economy and wait for the boyars to get sick of the czar costing them money” approach?

    Can we really do either of those without our allies on board? ‘Cause after watching us lose our last marble, that seems it might be a bit of a lift…

  152. 152.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    March 6, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    @lamh36: It’s gonna be the same ole shit.   He’s gonna refuse to concede.  He’s gonna  demand concessions or launch a floor fight.   He’ll grudgingly endorse and give a half-hearten statement.  And then his cult will booo and shout down everyone at the convention (especially Warren).

  153. 153.

    Citizen Alan

    March 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    @SFAW: 

    I was this close to tearing into you when I read the second half 3your post.

  154. 154.

    lamh36

    March 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    Wow…they hadn’t even told the passengers yet they found out when Pence made his annoucememtn…smh

    ✔
    @stevenportnoy
    · 11m
    The captain of the Grand Princess just told passengers of the test results in an overhead page:

    “You may have heard this on the news by the media, already, and we apologize, but we were not given advanced notice of this announcement by the US federal government.”

    @stevenportnoy
    “It would have been our preference to be the first to make this news available to you,” the captain said, adding that those who’ve tested positive will soon be notified of their results…

    …which means as of a few minutes ago, they hadn’t been told yet.

    22
    5:48 PM – Mar 6, 2020

    https://twitter.com/stevenportnoy/status/1236075885008125953

  155. 155.

    Lapassionara

    March 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    @DB11: yes. Warren would have been a terrific President.

    I remember when, I think it was George H. W. Bush, said something along the lines of “what is this vision thingy”?

    Seeing a path forward is key.

  156. 156.

    p.a.

    March 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    My wish fulfillment above and beyond a Dem sweep of exec and legis in DC this November (why not dream big!) is a real defenestration of Fox news by at least some of its knuckledraggers, as being seen as complicit in the trumpkin shitshow on COVID-19.  It’s all fun and games bigoting until you are personally affected by the pukefunnel of misinformation.  Wonder how many will at least have the capacity to see reality once it clubs them in the head?

  157. 157.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    Well this aged well…

    Sanders campaign co-chair Nina Turner criticizes candidates using Obama as “a prop” by putting him in adspic.twitter.com/7IkkwGBiGd

    — Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) March 5, 2020

    Pre-Debate Open Thread: <em>What Is Bernie HIDING?</em>

  158. 158.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 7:01 pm

    @lamh36:

    That alone should disqualify him, or if nothing else, show that he’s just the socialist version of Trump. ??

  159. 159.

    WereBear

    March 6, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    I think the bungling of the COVID19 situation will continue, making a bad situation worse. And this is unspinnable.

    We actually have what we used to joke about, remember? Republicans would act so contrary we would call for President Obama to make a PSA about “don’t drink bleach, don’t lick light sockets.”

    Now we have Fox and Friends telling people not to wash their hands and don’t stay at home, go to work when you’re sick!

    So yeah, it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:02 pm

    @Subsole: You really don’t want me to answer that.

  161. 161.

    Annie

    March 6, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    @DB11:

    Two things about this:

    So far as I can tell young people did not turn out in large numbers, certainly not the numbers the Sanders campaign expected.

    Two:  don’t assume everyone who’s middle-aged is financially secure.  There’s a lot of middle-agers who are spending their retirement savings on their parents’ medical bills and/or their kids’ college expenses.  And there’s a lot of middle-agers who have no retirement savings at all.

  162. 162.

    Lapassionara

    March 6, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    @Mike in NC: OMG, I just heard another clip of him bragging on himself. Please let it stop!

  163. 163.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    March 6, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:  Also liked the chilling episode, The Pine Bluff Variant where Scully discovers the CIA is testing a new germ weapon using currency as a distribution method. (sadly, based on similar real events).

  164. 164.

    Kathleen

    March 6, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    @lamh36: I’m with you.

  165. 165.

    JustRuss

    March 6, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    @cokane:

    And if anything, candidates like Warren got glowing media coverage (and are still getting it) 

    Oh come on, the media ignored Warren as much as they possibly could. Sure, she’s getting glowing coverage now, since she’s dropped out and is no longer threatening their tax cuts.

  166. 166.

    MomSense

    March 6, 2020 at 7:09 pm

    @Annie:

    We are the sandwich generation.  Feels like being a panini.

  167. 167.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 7:09 pm

    @cokane: Actually she did catch on —but too early — and then got crushed in an onslaught of misogyny, fear, media erasure and social-media propagated disinformation (with too much of that coming from here erstwhile progressive allies in the Sanders camp)

  168. 168.

    JeanneT

    March 6, 2020 at 7:11 pm

    @Amir Khalid:  More formally, I think there could be a return of using a greeting and parting bow, or at least a head nod….

  169. 169.

    JPL

    March 6, 2020 at 7:12 pm

    @MomSense: I know, right!

  170. 170.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 7:12 pm

    @Annie:

    There’s plenty of old people in there with the middle agers, believe me.

  171. 171.

    debbie

    March 6, 2020 at 7:14 pm

    @JustRuss:

    @DB11:

    Both seconded. The word “glowing” seems, er, trollish.

  172. 172.

    Chyron HR

    March 6, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    @debbie:

    Well, real Democrats hate Bernie and his supporters are all too lazy or stoned to vote, so I guess Republicans must be the ones voting for him.

  173. 173.

    L85NJGT

    March 6, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    Bernie brahs are now running with the ad hominem that Joe has dementia.

    They get the trial runs and anything that sticks will be weaponized in the general.

  174. 174.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 6, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Test of the evening,

    Beautiful test!

  175. 175.

    Kathleen

    March 6, 2020 at 7:17 pm

    @lamh36: Senator.

  176. 176.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @Annie: I agree with you on both points.

    I think that the fact that Bernie hasn’t turned out younger primary voters in larger numbers puts the lie to his entire general election and governing strategy. And his railing against the party establishment just further alienates a lot of young people from the political process entirely.

    (Turns out in the end there’s not that many people — young, middle-aged or old — that are truly willing to join a revolution and actually partake in it. And I don’t think Shouty McPointyFinger is the most inspiring standard-bearer for many of the people currently disillusioned with politics and sitting on the sidelines)

    I did add the proviso that older voters — and could have explicitly included middle-aged in that — might also be without real economic security for any number of reasons. Many people that fall into that category are the other cohort of progressive voters — but similarly, because they have more to potentially gain than lose with big changes to the system, they calculate risks differently from more secure and moderate voters.

    Setting it up as a younger/progressive | older/moderate binary erases a lot of the subtleties, but I did it for clarity of argument’s sake.

  177. 177.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:26 pm

     

    https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/1236042866826383360

    President Trump doesn’t just reject economists’ warnings that he needs to act to avert recession he told me today coronavirus is helping the economy by keeping American dollars from traveling abroad

  178. 178.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 7:28 pm

     

    @Adam L Silverman: Gotcha.

    For what little it may be worth, I agree they need to be stopped. I assume any economic pressure would cause them to lash out militarily, if only as a mad-bomber deterrent.

    As for the aftermath. What follows Putin? Warlordism?

  179. 179.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    https://twitter.com/EamonJavers/status/1236055628956815360

     

    President Trump praises his own scientific skills: “All these doctors say, ‘how do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability, maybe I should have done this instead of running for president.” Trump says his uncle went to MIT and was a super genius.

  180. 180.

    L85NJGT

    March 6, 2020 at 7:30 pm

    According to the poll, 54 percent of Democratic primary voters named Biden as their first choice, while 38 percent chose Sanders

    Obviously state by state is different, but it gives some idea of the spreads that Bernie would have to overcome to even achieve a plurality at this point – and he needs ~65% of remaining delegates to win outright.

  181. 181.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:30 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Reducing a state with a large nuclear arsenal seems like something that could trigger Ragnarok rather sooner than anyone would like.

  182. 182.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 6, 2020 at 7:31 pm

    @lamh36:

    Wow…they hadn’t even told the passengers yet they found out when Pence made his annoucememtn…smh

    Not unlike the way they fire cabinet secretaries and WH staffers who have become … turbulent.

  183. 183.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @Subsole: If we do it my way, nothing but rubble.

  184. 184.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1235733748563533824

    Get real, Bernie. The only person who’s going to cut Social Security if he’s elected is Donald Trump. Maybe you should spend your time attacking him.

  185. 185.

    Tom Q

    March 6, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    @DB11: I honestly believe Biden’s entry into the race was predicated on Bernie, who he genuinely saw as a threat to the party.  Had Bernie foregone the race, it might have been an entirely different, largely next-generational primary — people like Harris and Booker (who could never shake Biden’s iron grip on the African-American vote) might well have done much better…and it would have been Warren taking the “too old” attacks.

    I guess a lot of people see a much stronger candidate in Warren than I do.  I don’t question her competence and breadth of vision, but Dems have been losing races on that score since Dukakis.  (Yes, Gore and Hillary actually “won”, but their non-charisma made the races close enough for the EC to screw them.)  Whether we like it or not, personality/likability counts for a lot in politics, and I don’t think it’s pure misogyny if some don’t respond to Warren on that level.

    Let me hasten to add that my top choice this year, and golden hope for the Veep spot, was Kamala, so it’s not Warren’s woman-ness that gives me pause; it’s that I think she’s, in personality terms, closer to Gore than to (Bill) Clinton or Obama.  (Beto, Booker or Castro are others I think top her in that department.)

    I acknowledge there are many women my (advancing) age who love Warren, but I just don’t see what they, and many of you, see.

  186. 186.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:39 pm

    @Morzer: You do not want me addressing how this should be done.

  187. 187.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Let’s say that I am currently curiosity adjacent and moving towards considerable interest.

  188. 188.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    @Tom Q:

    I honestly believe Biden’s entry into the race was predicated on Bernie, who he genuinely saw as a threat to the party.  Had Bernie foregone the race, it might have been an entirely different, largely next-generational primary — people like Harris and Booker (who could never shake Biden’s iron grip on the African-American vote) might well have done much better…

    I concur with this assessment.

    and it would have been Warren taking the “too old” attacks.

    Maybe, but I doubt it. Because Liz doesn’t look or act old. She’s cogent, vibrant and literally bounces across the stage. Her voice lacks the inflections of the truly-elderly and her brain is young , subtle and huge!

  189. 189.

    lurker3000

    March 6, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    Haven’t read all these comments but. As much as I dislike Bernie, after reading this article, I understand the appeal of Bernie rhetoric and maybe Biden won’t help enough against this level of inequity. But I still think the first step has to be ejecting the Trump/Barr/Federalist Soc. power mongers. It may be too late based on this article to change the direction of the US, but I have to think a Dem presidency/Senate/House can only help. I was actually shocked by some of the details in this article. Didn’t realize it had gotten this robber-barony already.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/business/velvet-rope-economy.html?algo=bandit-story_desk_filter&fellback=false&imp_id=829415479&imp_id=410907994&action=click&module=editorContent&pgtype=Article&region=CompanionColumn&contentCollection=Trending

  190. 190.

    Cheryl Rofer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    Well said, Adam!

    ?????

  191. 191.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    @Morzer: I’m sorry to disappoint you, but I’m not going into details here. Because I don’t need to be referred to as genocidal.

  192. 192.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thank you.

  193. 193.

    L85NJGT

    March 6, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    As California continues to roll in, the delegate gap had shrunk to Sanders +38 with 80 left to be assigned.

    In California, Mr. Bloomberg has 24 offices and more than 300 staff members, while Mr. Sanders has 23 offices and just over 100 staff members, according to their campaigns. The Biden office in East Los Angeles is the only one in the state, and his campaign declined to say how many staff members it had on the ground.

    It’s hard to imagine doing worse against an empty office fronting as a ground game and a candidate who didn’t show up.

  194. 194.

    Morzer

    March 6, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Maybe consider a trial run using the Republican party as your test subject?

  195. 195.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: So what sort of effect will covid have on them? I’m given to understand they aren’t as developed as their opponents, at least infrastructure wise. Does that make them more or less resilient, or is it a wash? Fewer avenues of transmission, but fewer resources to absorb the hit?

    How brittle is Russia, overall?

    Hope I’m not being a pest on this.

  196. 196.

    Tom Q

    March 6, 2020 at 8:02 pm

    @L85NJGT: Truly amazing, since the Sanders folk were envisioning gaining a 200-or-more delegate lead.  That was pretty much their only chance of gaming the delegate race,

  197. 197.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 8:06 pm

    @Tom Q: to continue:

    Whether we like it or not, personality/likability counts for a lot in politics

    Agreed.

    I don’t think it’s pure misogyny if some don’t respond to Warren on that level.

    No, it’s not (necessarily).

    But it’s also not a co-incidence that women seeking power have to prove their ‘likability’ in a way that men never do. And there’s currently no way for any given woman to win that game: “Too mean/too much of a pushover; too shrill/too meek; too angry/too passive; too aggressive/not tough enough; too militaristic/not commander in-chief material”… et al.

    The problem is that we haven’t had a woman in that role so every women so far is ‘doing it wrong’ in one way or another. So we have far more mediocre men being given a pass on their faults and errors (FFS: Joe Biden?! Bernie Sanders?!) while brilliant and inspiring women are passed over: If that’s not misogyny — or at least sexism — I don’t know what is.

    I also think that your argument elides the fact the Warren is much better at retail politics than most people give her credit for. She has this warm, wonky charisma married with empathy and compassion that people respond to — when she’s given the chance to be heard and to interact. That’s one of the reasons why she took off at the outset of the primary.

    I was also a Kamala supporter at the outset because I thought that her more overt charisma and youth might give her more advantage as a candidate/nominee. But I’ve always thought that Warren would stand out on a historical level as one of the best Presidents ever  — and not at all simply because she would have been the first woman.

    Her combination of smarts, experience, comprehensive plans, compassion and political courage would have made her one of the all-time greats. The loss is immeasurable in my mind.

  198. 198.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 8:22 pm

    @Morzer:

    I dunno man. That movement looks like it’s gonna explode the first time it runs into something that don’t give a shit what Fox news thinks.

    Which is not to say they aren’t still dangerous as all hell. Just curiously fragile, for all their strength.

    I mean, if we win this year, we can start actually unfucking our electoral maps. These guys are NOT going to enjoy having an actual fair fight every two years.

  199. 199.

    Ruckus

    March 6, 2020 at 8:24 pm

    @sukabi:

    Two words.

    Rupert Murdoch.

    He’s led this bullshit for the last 30+ years. He’s given the crazies legitimacy, based upon the notion that the news has to tell the truth. First, it doesn’t, second they just call it the truth and hope that you won’t notice, which a portion of the populations he affects follow his wishes fully.

  200. 200.

    Uncle Cosmo

    March 6, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    @Amir Khalid: One of the older regulars at the Friday night swing dances I frequent was absent for a long while but since New Years has returned, looking much thinner. I made to shake his hand when first I saw him but he yanked his back as if mine was a hot griddle & just waved.

    Apparently he had a serious health crisis last autumn, underwent immunosuppressive therapy, & considers it a miracle to have survived. So I guess he’s not willing to risk hand contact with an old friend – even though he seems to have no reservations about hand contact with his dance partners, which would be even riskier (close contact for ~4 minutes vs a few seconds).

    (FTR I’m headed off to dance this evening. Be interesting to see how many show up – & how long it is before the sponsors put the series on hiatus.)

  201. 201.

    Tom Q

    March 6, 2020 at 8:27 pm

    @DB11: I can’t remember who it was, but, years ago, some female pundit said she thought the first female president might have to be someone who succeeded to the job (i.e., a VP stepping up upon the death or incapacitation of a president).  That would obviate the “we can’t imagine a woman being president because we’ve never seen one” issue with that person having to run the gauntlet we’ve been discussing.

    As for Warren’s retail politicking skill…I’ve heard it said Hillary had the same dichotomy, between wholesale and retail.  (I’ve heard it often said about Joe Biden, as well.)  The problem is, the presidency is a wholesale position.

  202. 202.

    Uncle Cosmo

    March 6, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @DB11: Tl;dr version: It’s natural to favor sharing the wealth when you have yet to accumulate much if any yourself.

    Or the quote usually attributed (without evidence) to Churchill:

    Anyone who is not a socialist at 20 has no heart; but anyone who is still a socialist at 40 has no brain.

  203. 203.

    Pappenheimer

    March 6, 2020 at 8:42 pm

    I’m sure the Morgenthau plan could be updated for Russia…

  204. 204.

    cokane

    March 6, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @JustRuss: No, she got plenty of coverage.

  205. 205.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 8:54 pm

    @Tom Q:

    the first female president might have to be someone who succeeded to the job (i.e., a VP stepping up upon the death or incapacitation of a president).  That would obviate the “we can’t imagine a woman being president because we’ve never seen one” issue with that person having to run the gauntlet we’ve been discussing.

    Given the evidence of this campaign: where it started and how it ended, I suspect that this is the right take. In the more recent thread I noted this possibility (with Kamala as VP) as the only potential bright spot that I can see of a Biden presidency. (I mean in comparison to the choices we might have had — it’s a given that he will be a massive improvement over the current occupant)

  206. 206.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Subsole: Russia is quite brittle. More accurately it is societally hollow.

  207. 207.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 6, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    @Subsole: You’re not being a pest. I made a commitment when I started writing here that as much as possible, I would hang out in the comments to my posts and answer questions. Even non-technical posts like this one. If there’s something I don’t want to answer or can’t answer, I’ll let you know.

  208. 208.

    DB11

    March 6, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: While I concur that Russia is an unacceptable threat in its current form, I’m massively uncomfortable with your insinuated solution and the blitheness with which you propose what would essentially be war crimes.

    Unless I completely misread between the lines. In which case, my apologies.

  209. 209.

    Subsole

    March 6, 2020 at 9:34 pm

    @DB11:

    The trouble is, sooner or later it will come to a head. Whether through ecological or economic collapse, or plain human stupidity. That’s the trouble with humanity’s latest rightward lurch. It has no room to maneuver. It has no flex to it.

    Look at our domestic right wing: Fox, Facebook, AM radio, and a whole constellation of cottage grifters on Youtube and Twitter, as well as churches and gun clubs just pouring propaganda into the rank and file’s ears 25/8.

    Partly that’s for the cash. Partly it’s because everybody didn’t listen to Mr. Smalls and is high on their supply. But a lot of it is because if they let up for an instant, they sink. Not among the hardcore, but their hardcore ain’t big enough anymore.

    Basically, they ain’t chasing the high anymore – they’re just trying to outrun the crash.

    I don’t know Russia, but if I understand what Adam is saying, Putin cannot wind down. If he gives them Donbas, why not Kiev? If Syria, why not a nice Israeli port as well?

    Apologies if I misunderstood you, Adam.

  210. 210.

    J R in WV

    March 6, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    @SFAW:

    Freddie also checked himself into a psychiatric rehab center, and disappeared from the blogosphere after that. I didn’t care for his writing or perspective, but I hope he’s becoming happier and calmer. somehow.

  211. 211.

    RedDirtGirl

    March 6, 2020 at 10:12 pm

    @NotMax: I’m going to make buttons for his active supporters, but I think there will be a market for this one, as well.

    Hold Your Nose

    and Vote For Biden

  212. 212.

    J R in WV

    March 6, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @DB11:

    and it would have been Warren taking the “too old” attacks.

    Nope. She’s way too cute to get the “too old” attack, at least not successfully.

  213. 213.

    Adam L Silverman

    March 7, 2020 at 12:51 am

    @DB11: The reason I said I wasn’t going to delineate or articulate the totality of what I think needs to be done is because it is a strategy developed as a result of working on this issue since 2014. At that time, as the cultural advisor/senior civilian advisor to the Commanding General of US Army Europe I counseled that it made no sense to engage Russia militarily if Putin scarfed up Crimea. For as bad as that was, Crimea was not worth getting into a conflict with a nuclear weapon power. I was wrong then. Catastrophically wrong. Putin only understands force. Our unwillingness to bloody his nose and knock him on his ass was taken not as a sign of restraint from a superior power, but rather as a sign of weakness by an unworthy adversary that was ripe for a leveling. And level us he has. My thoughts on this are not blithe. They are not something I’m bullshitting about. They are not something I’ve come up with on the fly. I cannot tell you the number of hours, days, weeks, and months I’ve spent working on parts of this problem set since returning to it in early 2016. But it is also not something that can be explained here in a comment without it lacking all nuance. So it isn’t that you misread between the lines, but that I did a poor job trying to explain something in a few sentences that cannot be explained in a few sentences.

  214. 214.

    Ian R

    March 7, 2020 at 1:27 am

    @Adam L Silverman: I realize this is probably a dead thread by now, but I was under the impression that Lieberman and the Joint List are basically willing to work together exactly long enough to pass a law that someone under indictment can’t be PM, then hold yet another election.

  215. 215.

    SFAW

    March 7, 2020 at 7:08 am

    @J R in WV:

    I had no idea that Freddie was in a bad way. Now I feel like somewhat of a schmuck.

  216. 216.

    SFAW

    March 7, 2020 at 7:09 am

    @Ian R:

    I realize this is probably a dead thread by now

    Pro-tip: It’s not officially a dead thread until either J R in WV or I comment.

    Wait a second …

  217. 217.

    SFAW

    March 7, 2020 at 7:11 am

    @DB11:

    Because Liz doesn’t look or act old.

    Since when has reality/logic meant anything to the RWMFs or the Bern-or-Bust-ers?

  218. 218.

    SFAW

    March 7, 2020 at 7:15 am

    @Citizen Alan:

    I was this close to tearing into you when I read the second half 3your post.

    Come ON, Alan. I realize I don’t comment as much as Baud (for example) — I’m thinking you and I comment about the same amount — but my politics have been pretty effing clear. Just as I have a pretty good idea of what your politics are.

    I’ll ascribe it to you not having enough caffeine in you when you read it.

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