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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / GOP Venality Open Thread: Erik Prince Teams Up with… Project (No) Veritas

GOP Venality Open Thread: Erik Prince Teams Up with… Project (No) Veritas

by Anne Laurie|  March 7, 20205:39 pm| 130 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Election 2020, Information Warfare, Open Threads, Republican Venality

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Disgraced paramilitary leader aligned with regime party pays spies to infiltrate and suppress domestic political opposition on behalf of the head of state https://t.co/UQ9Hvv47JJ

— Adam Serwer? (@AdamSerwer) March 7, 2020

So we’re basically in the Watergate phase of the Trump omnishambles. https://t.co/eP9KTbQDv6

— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) March 7, 2020

On the one hand, further proof that the Republican ‘elite’ is as profoundly anti-democratic as any Russian kleptocrat or Saudi emir. On the other hand… if the best they can recruit is James O’Keefe III’s little fumblecluster of performance-art ratfvckers, they’ve got a ways to go:

Erik Prince, the security contractor with close ties to the Trump administration, has in recent years helped recruit former American and British spies for secretive intelligence-gathering operations that included infiltrating Democratic congressional campaigns, labor organizations and other groups considered hostile to the Trump agenda, according to interviews and documents.

One of the former spies, an ex-MI6 officer named Richard Seddon, helped run a 2017 operation to copy files and record conversations in a Michigan office of the American Federation of Teachers, one of the largest teachers’ unions in the nation. Mr. Seddon directed an undercover operative to secretly tape the union’s local leaders and try to gather information that could be made public to damage the organization, documents show.

Using a different alias the next year, the same undercover operative infiltrated the congressional campaign of Abigail Spanberger, then a former C.I.A. officer who went on to win an important House seat in Virginia as a Democrat. The campaign discovered the operative and fired her.

Both operations were run by Project Veritas, a conservative group that has gained attention using hidden cameras and microphones for sting operations on news organizations, Democratic politicians and liberal advocacy groups. Mr. Seddon’s role in the teachers’ union operation — detailed in internal Project Veritas emails that have emerged from the discovery process of a court battle between the group and the union — has not previously been reported, nor has Mr. Prince’s role in recruiting Mr. Seddon for the group’s activities.

Both Project Veritas and Mr. Prince have ties to President Trump’s aides and family. Whether any Trump administration officials or advisers to the president were involved in the operations, even tacitly, is unclear. But the effort is a glimpse of a vigorous private campaign to try to undermine political groups or individuals perceived to be in opposition to Mr. Trump’s agenda…

Mr. Prince is under investigation by the Justice Department over whether he lied to a congressional committee examining Russian interference in the 2016 election, and for possible violations of American export laws. Last year, the House Intelligence Committee made a criminal referral to the Justice Department about Mr. Prince, saying he lied about the circumstances of his meeting with a Russian banker in the Seychelles in January 2017...

Eavesdropping on some Midwestern teachers and failing to derail a Congressional campaign — that’s not much of a ROI for an international Master of War like Prince Erik. But the sooner O’Keefe is out of ‘business’ and Prince is forced to decamp permanently to his outpost in Abu Dubai, the better.

If there’s ever a fifteen week course on political grifting at least two weeks should be dedicated to James O’Keefe

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) March 7, 2020

Reminder:

Erik Prince and Betsy DeVos are siblings. Their dad co-founded the uber-conservative anti-feminist Family Research Council. Betsy's father-in-law brought MLM scams to America & helped fuel the AIDS crisis. It's possible this family has done more damage to America than any other. https://t.co/E55eGEmbcn

— Jill Filipovic (@JillFilipovic) March 7, 2020

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Previous Post: « Best Guess is Ugly
Next Post: The Really Important Fact About Erik Prince That Everyone’s Coverage Keeps Missing: His Frontier Services Group is Funded By the People’s Republic of China spy v. spy flyouts»

Reader Interactions

130Comments

  1. 1.

    Another Scott

    March 7, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    Ctrl-F “China” – no results.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-10/blackwater-mercenary-prince-has-a-new-1-trillion-chinese-boss

    (Unfortunately, behind a paywall.)

    Wheels within wheels…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  2. 2.

    pluky

    March 7, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    Did they really think that putting a Project Veritas level mole in the operation of an EX-CIA AGENT was going to work?  The farce writes itself.

  3. 3.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 7, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    OT: I won my election!

  4. 4.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 5:50 pm

    @pluky:

    Sounds a bit like the trailer to My Spy (only the movie looks funny).

  5. 5.

    Baud

    March 7, 2020 at 5:50 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats!

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    March 7, 2020 at 5:50 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congratulations, and thanks for serving!

  7. 7.

    MattF

    March 7, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    Prince is a thug in a suit, O’Keefe probably doesn’t own a suit. Both belong in jail.

  8. 8.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 7, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    @Baud: @Anne Laurie:  Thanks! Its the town D committee and the result was never in doubt but its still cool to get a letter from the Town clerk telling me that I have won the election.

  9. 9.

    Brachiator

    March 7, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    Erik Prince and Betsy DeVos are siblings. Their dad co-founded the uber-conservative anti-feminist Family Research Council. Betsy’s father-in-law brought MLM scams to America & helped fuel the AIDS crisis. It’s possible this family has done more damage to America than any other

    Erik Prince sounds like the name of a third tier Bond villain.

    I did not know that he and Betsy DeVos were siblings.

    Trump talks about the “Deep State.” But I sometimes forget how inter-connected many of these right wing dipshits are.

  10. 10.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    March 7, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Yay! Represent the hell out of your constituents.

  11. 11.

    Kent

    March 7, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    On the one hand, further proof that the Republican ‘elite’ is as profoundly anti-democratic as any Russian kleptocrat or Saudi emir. On the other hand… if the best they can recruit is James O’Keefe III’s little fumblecluster of performance-art ratfvckers, they’ve got a ways to go:

    They aren’t looking for actual INTELLIGENCE on teachers unions and such.  I’m a member of a teachers union and every damn thing they do is 100% public and the minutes of every meeting are published and distributed. There aren’t any secrets, except perhaps the votes which are anonymous.

    What they are looking for is “gotcha” dirt that they can blow up into the next big kerfuffle on FOX.  Trap someone into saying something slightly controversial in an unguarded moment that can be distorted into some sort of “controversy”  And O’Keefe is actually pretty good at that.

    It is all performative not substantive.  And not at all done in good faith.  Democrats sometimes don’t properly understand that.

  12. 12.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    March 7, 2020 at 5:55 pm

    FYI: Cuomo has declared a State of Emergency for New York due to COVID-19:

    New York Governor Declares State Of Emergency Over Coronavirus

    Further Info:

    Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) @ NY-DoH

  13. 13.

    Brachiator

    March 7, 2020 at 5:56 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Congratulations!

  14. 14.

    Darkrose

    March 7, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Grats! That’s awesome!

  15. 15.

    Mnemosyne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Whoo-hoo! Congratulations!

  16. 16.

    PsiFighter37

    March 7, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    Erik Prince is long overdue for a prison stint due to Blackwater.

  17. 17.

    Marcopolo

    March 7, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats, now the fun part starts.  Good luck.

  18. 18.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    The code name they gave her? LibertyU

    The subtlety is grinding me down.

  19. 19.

    Mnemosyne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    FWIW, this seems to be yet another example of Why Trumpers Fail. They’re building this awesome spy network using actual professionals and the only thing Prince can think to do with it is to spy on Mommy’s mortal enemies in Michigan’s teachers union so Mommy can boost charter schools unimpeded? Really?

  20. 20.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Just getting back to CDMX from Teotihuacan. It was spectacular. Nice to get away from obsessively checking the news for a few hours. (I’m not anxious, you’re anxious!)

    View this post on Instagram

    A post shared by Tynan Burke (@tynanpants) on Mar 7, 2020 at 3:02pm PST

  21. 21.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh, that’s so great! Happy for you, and proud to know you IRL!!

  22. 22.

    Marcopolo

    March 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    Totally OT but Elizabeth Warren just posted this lovely campaign epitaph on twitter. Heartfelt, positive to the last, glad I had a chance to vote for her before she bowed out.

    Choose to fight only righteous fights, because then when things get tough—and they will—you will know that there is only one option ahead of you: Nevertheless, you must persist. pic.twitter.com/GA4vl9tuRl— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) March 7, 2020

  23. 23.

    Frankensteinbeck

    March 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    @Kent:

    O’Keefe is actually pretty good at that.

    O’Keefe is terrible at that.  It worked with Acorn because it was a new tactic.  Once Democrats started guarding against doctored footage, O’Keefe’s success record nosedived and he showed his ass again and again.

  24. 24.

    frosty

    March 7, 2020 at 6:04 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congratulations!

  25. 25.

    clay

    March 7, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    Just saw a WaPo headline that a CPAC attendee has tested positive for Coronavirus. A bunch of WH staff also were at CPAC.

    I’m not saying I WANT them all to get an infectious disease. I’m just saying that I would find it very karmedic* if they did so.

    *A word I just coined, meaning finding humor in the comeuppance of bad people.

  26. 26.

    WereBear

    March 7, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: congratulations!

  27. 27.

    sdhays

    March 7, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    This just showed up in my Apple News notifications: CPAC attendee tests positive for coronavirus

    It sure would be fantastically fitting if Donald Dump contracts the coronavirus because of his own administration’s incompetence, mostly due to the fact that top officials were more interested in protecting Dump’s ego rather than protecting the nation.

  28. 28.

    WereBear

    March 7, 2020 at 6:08 pm

    @clay: Awesome word. Hope to use it soon.

  29. 29.

    JPL

    March 7, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Wonderful news.   Congrats.

  30. 30.

    sdhays

    March 7, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: That looks amazing!

  31. 31.

    sdhays

    March 7, 2020 at 6:10 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats!

  32. 32.

    JPL

    March 7, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    @sdhays: sad

  33. 33.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: not that it was in doubt, but congrats! Must feel great.

  34. 34.

    opiejeanne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Woohoo! Congratulations!

    We can say we knew you when.

  35. 35.

    opiejeanne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:14 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I hope one of those ancient mummies didn’t breathe on you.

     

    I just remembered, my youngest brought me a tchotchke from there, a little … are they ziggurats or pyramids? It got to be a joke in the family, the two daughters would bring me little tchotchkes from their travels abroad.

  36. 36.

    prostratedragon

    March 7, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:  With a capital ‘B.’ Or what a fumbletongued fotf used to call “subletity.” But I think Kent is right that that doesn’t matter for their purposes.

  37. 37.

    tokyokie

    March 7, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    OT: I won my election!

    Congratulations! Just remember your balloon juice pals as you climb the political ladder.

  38. 38.

    SiubhanDuinne

    March 7, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: 

    IIRC, you aren’t on Facebook. And I don’t do Twitter. But I just posted about you, in a shameless bragging way, on my own FB page (no names, just holding you up as model citizen)!

  39. 39.

    prostratedragon

    March 7, 2020 at 6:21 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:  Congratulations!

  40. 40.

    joel hanes

    March 7, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    It’s possible this family has done more damage to America than any other

     

    No.

    Rupert Murdoch leads in cumulative damage, by a very  wide margin.

    In second place is Ronald Wilson Reagan.

  41. 41.

    Feathers

    March 7, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats!

  42. 42.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    It’s when a mummy explodes into a ravenous flood of scarabs that freaks me out.

  43. 43.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 6:25 pm

    @opiejeanne: slanted sides, so stepped pyramids I guess?

  44. 44.

    Mike in NC

    March 7, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    Saw a story where Fat Bastard shitcanned CoS Mick Mulvaney last night and replaced him with former NC dickhead congressman Mark Meadows. He was in the Freedumb Caucus, is a Birther, and a White Supremacist. That hits all of Trump’s sweet spots.

  45. 45.

    Mary G

    March 7, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congratulations! They are lucky to have you!

  46. 46.

    tokyokie

    March 7, 2020 at 6:27 pm

    @tokyokie: I used to think that Erik Prince was smart. Evil and dangerous, of course, but smart. But his partnering with a long-past-his-sell-by-date clown like O’Keefe makes me reconsider.

  47. 47.

    NotMax

    March 7, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @opiejeanne

    Am I misremembering or is a Happy Birthday in order?

  48. 48.

    zhena gogolia

    March 7, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Congratulations! That’s wonderful!

  49. 49.

    debbie

    March 7, 2020 at 6:37 pm

    Can’t any of these clowns afford a decent tailor?

  50. 50.

    debbie

    March 7, 2020 at 6:38 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Congratulations!

  51. 51.

    debbie

    March 7, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    @sdhays:

    Somewhere along today, I heard that two people in Florida had tested positive for Covid-19, and I couldn’t help hoping they were near, if not at, MaraLago. “They’re coming to get you, Donald.”

  52. 52.

    JMG

    March 7, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    @tokyokie: All you need to do what you want in life in our society is capital. Prince had plenty of that. Hiring soldiers of fortune is easy. History shows mercenaries make shit soldiers (one exception, the Foreign Legion, lots of complicated reasons). But the guy who hires and fields mercenaries need not come within 1000s of miles of a bullet. No reason to assume this guy has any more brains that his psycho sister.

  53. 53.

    Redshift

    March 7, 2020 at 6:46 pm

    @joel hanes:

    Rupert Murdoch leads in cumulative damage, by a very  wide margin.

    In second place is Ronald Wilson Reagan.

    The Koch family is up there. When David Koch died, there was some forum, probably Twitter, when I responded to a “don’t speak ill of the dead/look at his charity work” post with “he pumped out disinformation to fight action on a climate apocalypse that may destroy human civilization, all to protect profits from his business. I’m hard pressed to imagine someone more evil.”

  54. 54.

    Redshift

    March 7, 2020 at 6:51 pm

    @debbie: I suspect, like with the Orange One and his makeup, they can, but they’re the story of people who are always sure they know best, and they won’t take advice from anyone.

  55. 55.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 6:52 pm

    We need to take young Sanders supporters very seriously when they threaten not to turn out for the nominee.

    They've refused to turn out before, like for Sanders in 2020.

    — Dukakis Dude ? (@DukakisFanboy) March 7, 2020

  56. 56.

    Baud

    March 7, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    He just ruined his timeline, but it was worth it.

  57. 57.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    March 7, 2020 at 6:57 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yee-haw! Congratulations.

  58. 58.

    Mike in NC

    March 7, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    @debbie:  No. But Daniel Craig is hosting SNL tonight.

  59. 59.

    James E Powell

    March 7, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Congratulations! You are now a fully fledged member of the Democratic Establishment. You may now commence with the rigging of things.

  60. 60.

    CliosFanBoy

    March 7, 2020 at 7:05 pm

    @clay: I’m not saying I WANT them all to get an infectious disease.

    I will. no problem. and I hope they get VERY, very ill.

  61. 61.

    Mike G

    March 7, 2020 at 7:05 pm

    So we’re basically in the Watergate phase of the Trump omnishambles

    More like the paramilitary brownshirts stage.

  62. 62.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    Has anyone at BJ thought they’ve been exposed to the virus?  I said on some comments yesterday that I did.

    Briefly, my fiancee’s daughter, SIL, and granddaughter came to NorCal from Seattle in a rented car.  Been here about a month.  They all got sick with the now well-known symptoms.  My partner got it and went to the ER last Monday.  She has a long history with asthma.  She tested negative for influenza and pneumonia.  They did not test for Corona (probably didn’t even have the ability).  They told her she had no Corona worries and sent her home (insisting she keep her mask on).  About 10 days on, she is starting to come out of it.  My bout was shorter-lived but I may be among the 80% who don’t get hit hard. It was about 4 days for me.

    Anyone else have any possible experience?

  63. 63.

    Feathers

    March 7, 2020 at 7:12 pm

    @tokyokie: The other possibility is that someone with shitloads of money has a wingnut hardon for Veritas and Prince is basically grifting the hell out of the dude.

    But the fact that the brother of the Secretary of Education is hiring people to infiltrate teachers unions should really be the headline.

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    March 7, 2020 at 7:15 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: That’s never OT.

    Congratulations!

    Make us proud prouder!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    A Ghost To Most

    March 7, 2020 at 7:19 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Ask me in a week or two. My wife is an RN in School of Mines  college health center. It’s just a matter of time.

  66. 66.

    Another Scott

    March 7, 2020 at 7:19 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Scary.

    Thanks for the report.  Best of luck to you and yours!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    Sister Golden Bear

    March 7, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Given that I live in one of the hot spots in the Bay Area, there’s definitely a non-zero possibility that I’ve been exposed.

    I’ve been having another one of those “is it a mild cold and/or just really shitty allergies” bouts the last couple days. But no fever, no cough.

    We’ll see… Though if I have to get it, I suppose it’s better to do so early before the health care system gets overwhelmed.

    Since I live alone, I have stocked up a bit on things in case I need to self-quarantine.

  68. 68.

    catclub

    March 7, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    @Lacuna Synecdoche: He also did not have good things to say about the federal response. I think this will be a magnified case of Katrina help to Mississippi versus Louisiana.  The Louisiana Governor at the time was a Democrat. She got shivved.

     

    The Mississippi governor was Hayley Barbour. He got funds.

  69. 69.

    Amir Khalid

    March 7, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    Saudi emir

    Tsk, tsk. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not an emirate, it is formally a kingdom. (Actually it is a tribe with a sovereign hereditary chief; as Adam once explained to me, it has never evolved to feudalism, let alone past that stage.)

  70. 70.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 7, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congrats, now you can engage in some old fashioned graft.  Just remember your friends here at Balloon Juice.

    //

  71. 71.

    glory b

    March 7, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Congratulations from the rest of the mean girls table!

  72. 72.

    MisterForkbeard

    March 7, 2020 at 7:31 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Ouch.

  73. 73.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Thank you!

  74. 74.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @A Ghost To Most:

    A few thousand young people in close proximity… What could go wrong?

  75. 75.

    JPL

    March 7, 2020 at 7:34 pm

    @West of the Rockies:  Definitely scary and your story is happening all over the country.

  76. 76.

    Another Scott

    March 7, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    TheHill:

    Washington, D.C., Mayor Muriel Bowser announced Saturday that the city has its first presumptive case of the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).

    Bowser announced on Twitter that local health officials received their first positive test of the virus on Saturday. Cases are considered “presumptive” until they are confirmed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    Bowser will provide more details at a press conference Saturday evening starting at 7:30 p.m.

    Presumably this is different from the AIPAC conference pair of cases (in NY). (The AIPAC conference was held in the DC convention center.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  77. 77.

    Mnemosyne

    March 7, 2020 at 7:36 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I did, too, because I have a lot of Facebook friends who are bummed that their primary candidate had to drop out and they needed a ray of hope. We’ll be able to say that we knew SC when!

  78. 78.

    danielx

    March 7, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    I would gone with “…cluster of performance-art bumblefucks…” myself but otherwise perfect.

  79. 79.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 7:41 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Ditto on the allergies.

    Here’s my experience with maybe-Covid 19…

    Start with a headache and a dry cough for a day or so.  Fevers/chills kick in, along with aches and serious lethargy.

    It did not involve sore throat or nausea, but appetite does dwindle.

    But I’m “only” 58 and in good health, so YMMV.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    March 7, 2020 at 7:43 pm

    Also, if you’re starting to hear the “Biden has dementia!” bullshit online, Washington Monthly has a whole article about how it’s a deliberate disinformation campaign. It’s made plausible by Biden’s known stutter, and disability advocates are PISSED that people are using his stutter as “evidence” of dementia.

    https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/03/06/the-disinformation-campaign-being-launched-against-biden/#.XmQP5l34OVI.twitter

  81. 81.

    Mnemosyne

    March 7, 2020 at 7:45 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    I’ve started to wonder if the flu I had in early January was the B flu or Covid-19. I had a surprisingly high fever (102.9) and a cough nasty enough that I threw out my lower back, but no one else seems to have caught it from me, including my husband.

  82. 82.

    Shana

    March 7, 2020 at 7:46 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Let me add my congratulations!  If your town committee is anything like my county’s committee, there will be a certain amount of herding cats involved. But also good people.

  83. 83.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    @Mnemosyne: yeah I’m doing a lot of muting on Facebook. Seems to be filtering into my twitter TL through people opposed to it, though.

  84. 84.

    trollhattan

    March 7, 2020 at 7:51 pm

    @glory b:

    Congratulations from the rest of the mean girls table!

    Heh. Remember, Taco Tuesday, venom tacos are 50% off. :-)

  85. 85.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    A very 2020 Saturday: #WhereIsJoe is trending and big bluecheck accounts in the Sanders twitterverse are spreading a conspiracy theory that Biden has disappeared while he is literally speaking at a rally in Kansas City, his second event of the day pic.twitter.com/2xTINSiSX6

    — Ryan Lizza (@RyanLizza) March 7, 2020

  86. 86.

    trollhattan

    March 7, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    The kid had flu flu early February (verified with test) and it’s been boinging around since fall here, so is pretty ubiquitous.

    But one does wonder, lacking test confirmation. I suspect this COVID thing is quite established in most metro areas by now, just undocumented.

  87. 87.

    West of the Rockies

    March 7, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    @Mnemosyne: 

    My fever hit a tested high of101.6 and hung around for about 3-4 days.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    March 7, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Saw it on Reddit too.

  89. 89.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @trollhattan: extrapolating from fatalities (see earlier thread for Martin and I giving estimates) I guess there’s 3000-6000 cases in the US right now. I wouldn’t say ‘established’, but exponential growth is a hell of a drug.

  90. 90.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    March 7, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    @clay:

    I’m not saying I WANT them all to get an infectious disease.

    Why do people say things like this?  Personally I hope that these people suffer in proportion to all the suffering they  have caused others.  Fuck ’em.

  91. 91.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 8:05 pm

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: I say things like that because there’s a good chance some of the 2.5 people they’ll infect will not deserve it and may die.

  92. 92.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    March 7, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    @West of the Rockies: Now there’s a statement you could make even if there was no brewing pandemic.

  93. 93.

    James E Powell

    March 7, 2020 at 8:12 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    As Joe Biden’s volunteer campaign advisor, I would recommend that he spend time in Michigan talking like only Joe can to African American voters about how much he needs their vote on Tuesday.

  94. 94.

    chris

    March 7, 2020 at 8:13 pm

    Dear me, this could be tragic. YMMV

    “ACU chairman Matt Schlapp told the Washington Post on Saturday he did interact with the infected at the event. The precise chronology could not be learned, but Schlapp did shake Trump’s hand on the stage with Trump at the last day of the conference.” https://t.co/rnE0UJyTqp— Seung Min Kim (@seungminkim) 8 March 2020

  95. 95.

    debbie

    March 7, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @West of the Rockies:

    The Arnold (Schwarzenegger’s annual bodybuilding, fitness, and health expo) was scheduled for this weekend, but the governor and mayor banned spectators from most of the events. Tens of thousands of people from 80 countries attend this thing, so the concern was understandable; however, Schwarzenegger has a sad and has intimated that because of this, he may move it somewhere else next year (It’s been here since whenever it began).

  96. 96.

    Baud

    March 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @James E Powell: He’s in Mississippi tomorrow.

  97. 97.

    Mallard Filmore

    March 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm

    @trollhattan:

     

    I suspect this COVID thing is quite established in most metro areas by now, just undocumented.

    Due to the size and economic power of the USA, few countries will have the ability to turn away visitors from here. Trump is working hard to make USA citizens a disease vector.

  98. 98.

    JPL

    March 7, 2020 at 8:26 pm

    @chris: thoughts and prayers

  99. 99.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Omelette/eggs.  Amirite?

  100. 100.

    MisterForkbeard

    March 7, 2020 at 8:34 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: I live in the North Bay but work on a big friggin tech campus om the Peninsula. I’m in the same boat as you – both myself and my boss have had very light sniffles the last few days, and a bit of post nasal drip. No coughing or fever, and I hope it stays that way.

    Most of the risk factors Martin outlined a few days ago apply to our HQ. I told my boss about it and informed her I wouldnt be coming in person for the next few weeks. She’s totally fine with that.

  101. 101.

    Ken

    March 7, 2020 at 8:41 pm

    @chris: “In retrospect, having all the speakers hug and kiss the flag in imitation of Dear Leader’s act last year may have been unwise.”

  102. 102.

    Ken

    March 7, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    @tokyokie: Just remember your balloon juice pals as you climb the political ladder.

    Dibs on the construction materials contracts.

  103. 103.

    MisterForkbeard

    March 7, 2020 at 8:44 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: As always, the replies to that from the Sanders supporters are godawful and terrible.

  104. 104.

    Caphilldcne

    March 7, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    @sdhays: 2 folks attending AIPAC also tested positive. These folks have been all over Capitol Hill meeting with congressional staff. (As have I – 30 meetings in the last two weeks on crim Justice issues). This is going to turn into a DC issue sooner rather than later once a hill or administration staffer tests positive.

  105. 105.

    Morzer

    March 7, 2020 at 8:48 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:  Congratulations, Citizen Representative Jackal! When does the program of riding upon your enemies’ horses and making their women weep commence?

  106. 106.

    Suzanne

    March 7, 2020 at 8:51 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: AHHHHHH CONGRATULATIONS!!!

  107. 107.

    AnotherBruce

    March 7, 2020 at 8:54 pm

  108. 108.

    Martin

    March 7, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Here’s my quickie formula.  Assuming a 3.4% fatality rate, take the number fatalities and multiply by 30. Then, since fatalities usually come between 17 and  21 days after contraction, and a 6.4 day doubling period, multiply by 8  (three doublings).

    So, 17 * 30 * 8 ~  4080.

  109. 109.

    chris

    March 7, 2020 at 8:59 pm

    @Caphilldcne: It’s in DC. Mayor Bowser just gave a press conference.

  110. 110.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 9:01 pm

    @Martin: I did

    17*(1/.02) = 850 infections 2-4 weeks ago.

    850*2*2*2 = 6800

    Obviously we are making slightly different assumptions, but same ballpark.

  111. 111.

    Martin

    March 7, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Yours may be more accurate. The data suggests 3.4% mortality from people who contract it, 1.9% for people who die directly from it who really had no hope of recovering (so nobody who was already on their last legs when they caught it).

    Your 2% might be more accurate. But yeah, somewhere in there.

  112. 112.

    Suzanne

    March 7, 2020 at 9:07 pm

    @trollhattan: I suspect this, too. The fact that so many of the infected are asymptomatic or experience it as just a cold makes me think that it’s already been around more than we think, and we are only just now really looking for it. I mean, I have seasonal allergies, and around this time of year, I often feel low-grade crappy and I have had a sinus headache off and on all week. But I feel fine right now.

    One potential good thing: I have heard that it doesn’t do well with temps over about 75 degrees. We are skimming highs of 80. So perhaps this thing will recede for the year and give us time to develop a vaccine.

  113. 113.

    Mallard Filmore

    March 7, 2020 at 9:09 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: “‘Get ready’: Italian doctors warn Europe”

    https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213057198

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

    They said: “We are seeing a high percentage of positive cases being admitted to our intensive care units (ICUs), in the range of 10 per cent of all positive patients… We wish to convey a strong message: Get ready!”

    Ten percent of all positives need intensive care!

  114. 114.

    Eric S.

    March 7, 2020 at 9:10 pm

    @Ken: I’ve got the trucks and axle weights.

  115. 115.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 9:12 pm

    @Mallard Filmore: that squares with observations elsewhere.

  116. 116.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 7, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Aww thanks. I am flattered could you share what you wrote if you don’t mind. You can send me an email. Or here in the comments.

  117. 117.

    Martin

    March 7, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @Mallard Filmore: That seems a bit low, to be honest. Data out of China was ~20% needed ICU + ventilator.

    I mentioned earlier that Italy is exploring rationing for ICU beds. Considering something like rejecting patients over a certain age (e.g. 80) because they expect to run out within the next 2ish weeks.

    If our numbers don’t calm down a bit, we might be there as early as April.

  118. 118.

    J R in WV

    March 7, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @Suzanne:

    One potential good thing: I have heard that it doesn’t do well with temps over about 75 degrees. We are skimming highs of 80. So perhaps this thing will recede for the year and give us time to develop a vaccine.

    I have seen that it (the virus) appears to be doing well in Singapore, which is pretty much a tropical city. So I don’t expect a warm season to make much difference in this virus and how it occurs in a population.

  119. 119.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @Suzanne: I have heard that it doesn’t do well with temps over about 75 degrees.

    Uh, from who?

    ETA: I saw some competing models yesterday. One suggested a sweet spot around 40(?) degrees F, but the difference was an R0 (#infections caused by each infected person) of 1.75 vs. 2.5. So it’s not like it goes to near-zero, unlike the flu. Another suggested no relationship to weather. A third suggested it is emerging as a seasonal disease.

  120. 120.

    Jackie

    March 7, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: YAY FOR YOU!!!????????

  121. 121.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    @J R in WV: Taiwan’s virus also did not get the memo. Both countries are doing a good job, though, because they have lots of practice.

  122. 122.

    Suzanne

    March 7, 2020 at 9:34 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I read this piece a few days ago, because I was wondering how it was moving in the Southern Hemisphere. I should note that I am in absolutely no way a scientist or epidemiologist, so I am merely responding to what may be bad information.

  123. 123.

    Martin

    March 7, 2020 at 9:39 pm

    Reminder that 2 weeks ago, Italy had 9 cases. They just put a hard quarantine on 16 million people and have 233 reported deaths.

    2 weeks.

  124. 124.

    phdesmond

    March 7, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: congrats!

  125. 125.

    Jackie

    March 7, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    @Sister Golden Bear: I live in southeastern WA. Same concerns. My family – excepting me has been battling colds and flu. I’ve isolated myself as best I can, flu shot in Oct, vitamins and Airborne… but, now fighting allergies? Or cold? Or…? ????for both of us!

  126. 126.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 7, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    @Suzanne: it looks like the article balances itself pretty well…. my understanding is that while this is indeed what happened with SARS we’ve been unable to study this one to anything near the same degree so far.

  127. 127.

    Another Scott

    March 7, 2020 at 10:15 pm

    @Martin:

    AlJazeera:

    The total number of cases in the country was up to 5,883 compared to 4,636 announced on Friday, showing that contagion shows no sign of slowing down.

    1247 new cases in one day in Italy.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128.

    Suzanne

    March 7, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I had seen some info cross my FB page about the virus not being able to handle heat very well, which I didn’t necessarily believe because FAKE NEWS or at least rumor, but it did get me to thinking…. so far, it doesn’t seem to be as severe in the global south. Which is not what I would expect, seeing as how the countries of the global south on average have less developed healthcare systems. So I did some looking. Again, it could be totally wrong. Caveat caveat caveat.

    It’s already getting hot here. I came this close to turning on the AC today. But now it’s about 73 beautiful degrees.

  129. 129.

    opiejeanne

    March 7, 2020 at 10:47 pm

    @NotMax: Monday I’ll be 70. Yay!

  130. 130.

    Martin

    March 8, 2020 at 12:15 am

    @Another Scott: Geometric growth is a bitch, man.

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