Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

So many bastards, so little time.

This is dead girl, live boy, a goat, two wetsuits and a dildo territory.  oh, and pink furry handcuffs.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Let me file that under fuck it.

No one could have predicted…

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Elections Open Thread

Reader Interactions

299Comments

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    Mmmm. Fresh thread.

    Apparently final results in most of the states will take several hours, for various reasons, so unless it’s a complete blowout we may be waiting a while.

  9. 9.

    JaySinWA

    Washington’s vote by mail will be a good week to finish, and early voting will include candidates that hadn’t dropped out yet. Tonight’s drop should be the most Bernie favorable. Later counts may add some of the dropouts to both columns, but I expect most of the late votes to go Biden.

  11. 11.

    Marcopolo

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yes, but this is not out of the blue.  It’s because they saw a very high absentee ballot response, they’ve implemented some new things (like registering at the voting place on Election Day), and the Sec of State has been preparing for this possibility for at least a few days.

    Meanwhile here in St Louis we had a guy drive his car into a polling place, then jump out & barge into the voting room and throw bleach water onto voting machines & workers. No idea what ideology prompted this behavior atm.

    Also seeing pretty low turnout at least in eastern MO.

  13. 13.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Marcopolo: I don’t blame the Michigan people for saying up front that it’s not going to be tonight. That avoids some of the ragging from the media that other states have been subjected to.

    I live in a city that did ranked-choice voting for mayor. I can wait.

  14. 14.

    Martin

    @Cheryl Rofer:  California tells y’all to calm the fuck down.

    CA still has 2.7 million to count from a week ago. (Biden +3 since election night), and 3 more weeks of counting and verifying.

    Good beats fast.

  16. 16.

    JeanneT

    @Cheryl Rofer:  I’m guessing that’s because this is the first election with Michigan’s new extended registration and absentee voting process – some people were still registering today at their local clerk’s office, and submitting a ballot right there. The estimate I heard is that the number of absentee ballots cast this year is at least double from last year, when people had to attest to having a particular reason to vote absentee. So it will take some time to add those to the results.

  20. 20.

    dmsilev

    Sanders up by 7 points in Michigan!

     

    (2 precincts reporting. Numbers may be subject to change.)

  21. 21.

    janesays

    AP is calling Missouri for Biden as well, not sure why MSNBC hasn’t called yet. They did say both candidates will hit 15% threshold (and thus win delegates), which isn’t really surprising. It could still wind up being a 30 point blowout.

  22. 22.

    tom

    Bernie had a rally in Ann Arbor at the University of Michigan campus on Sunday. As mentioned upstairs, Michigan now has same-day registration. The line at the Ann Arbor city hall today goes all the way down the block.

  25. 25.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Local events here in CA are getting canceled/postponed right and left. College campuses are being closed down. And yet I’m sure the Berners are going to scream that this is more “evidence” that Biden has dementia. ?

  27. 27.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Biden wins Missouri and Mississippi, according to projections based on exit polls. He’s ahead by more than 20 in Missouri and nearly 60 in Mississippi t.co/TXfcbqYXW6
    — Nate Cohn (@Nate_Cohn) March 11, 2020

  28. 28.

    A Ghost to Most

    @Marcopolo:

    Meanwhile here in St Louis we had a guy drive his car into a polling place, then jump out & barge into the voting room and throw bleach water onto voting machines & workers. No idea what ideology prompted this behavior atm.

    The story I read said it was after he voted at that polling place.

  33. 33.

    Kelly

    In other election newz my very trumpy dump truck driver brother in law doesn’t think he can vote for trump this time because firing the pandemic control people and the overall the coronavirus response is and I quote ” is so stupid. We can’t trust that guy to be in charge of anything”. Oregon was very likely gonna go to the Democratic Presidential nominee anyway so not much practical benefit here, but if he has lost faith in the Orange One maybe other members of his demographic in purple state will also succumb to doubt. I am astonished.

  34. 34.

    Marcopolo

    The reporting is Sanders is heading back to VT tonight. Who knows, if he takes the shellacking that appears to be happening right now maybe he’ll throw in the towel.

    Yes, this is me being really optimistic.

  39. 39.

    Baud

    Biden seems to finally be getting both working class whites and working class black voters.

  40. 40.

    Cacti

    Bernie calls voting lines in Michigan an outrage.

    If they were bread lines though, they’d be all right.

  41. 41.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    @Marcopolo: it would be nice, but nah.  He’s gonna stay in for the debate on Sunday.   And let’s face it, he’s never gonna drop out.

    He’s already preparing for a run in 2028.

  42. 42.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Marcopolo: But Bernie’s up 7 in Michigan! With at least two precincts counting! Why can’t you see how great he’s doing!

    That said, as Martin informed me in another thread: Bernie did this on Super Tuesday too, and he had an event planned in VT that was cancelled due to Coronavirus. The trip back to VT doesn’t signify anything – Biden is doing something similar.

  43. 43.

    janesays

    This is over, Biden’s the nominee. It’s become pretty clear that a lot of Bernie’s 2016 voters were only voting for him because they hated Clinton, but they’re perfectly OK with voting for Biden in 2020.

  50. 50.

    Anya

    Sanders heading back to Vermont tonight might mean he is consulting his campaign advisors whether to continue or concede? ?

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Yep, I got that, too. And, paradoxically, Target says they’re going to be hiring additional staff to meet the additional demand for buy online/pickup in store.

  56. 56.

    Kent

    @Kelly: someone needs to put up a split screen tv ad showing the progress of the corona virus on one side with all the deaths and video of doctors in hazmat suits and such.  With trumps behavior and quotes on the other.  Day by day.

    16 people died.         Trump out golfing

    22 people died.         Trump claims it is a hoax

    176 people die.         Trump calls for tax breaks for shale oil drillers.

    etc.

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: Almost got away with it too.

    ….if it hadn’t been for those meddling kids! I mean those voting old people!

  62. 62.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Michigan:  Biden up by 11 points with 20% of expected voted counted (link)

  64. 64.

    Cheryl Rofer

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    @janesays:

    I really do think that a lot more Democrats were waiting for the South Carolina results than anyone — especially the media — realized. Not just Black Democrats, but white ones, too.

    I said after 2016 that I would vote like a Black woman going forward. I think that way more voters did that this year than anyone expected.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    Also, I think this Covid-19 crisis woke a lot of people up. Who do you want in charge of this kind of disaster, the guy who knows where all of the levers of power are and how to use them, or the guy who’s pissed off everyone who’s ever had to work on a group project with him?

  68. 68.

    Patricia Kayden

    “The ability of the @GOP to run on abstract principles of ‘limited government’ and low taxes while avoiding responsibility for the consequences – crumbling infrastructure, gutted public services, massive inequality – has to stop.” t.co/xbPv1UZUm4— Alex Mohajer (@AlexMohajer) March 10, 2020

  70. 70.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I’m afraid ‘limited government’ means ‘legally abuse any minority you want’ and ‘low taxes’ means ‘not one dime of your money will go to help Those People’ and Republicans will happily pay any sacrifice for those results.

  73. 73.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    @Mnemosyne:

    My university has canceled all face-to-face classes until April 12, even smaller regional campuses. Remote teaching will now be done for all courses. Clinicals are still on for now, but students will no longer care for isolation patients.

    This is surreal. I’ve watched this thing since late January develop over on r/coronavirus and before that r/china_flu. Then, it seemed like it was confined to China. Now, it’s here. We’re witnessing history and I’d really like to get off this crazy train, conductor

  75. 75.

    Eolirin

    As much as delegates are what really matter in these contests, when Biden is going in with a 100 delegate lead, all he needs to do is win. If he sweeps all these contests, regardless of margin, and it’s looking like he very well may, Sanders has no path back to a majority of delegates.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    @janesays: According to Greenwald it is because MSNBC is part of a conspiracy with the Democratic National Committee and the Biden campaign.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @Mnemosyne: We just closed. Labs/performances may continue, lectures/seminars/discussions/finals move online. Effective Monday.

    We also have a presumptive positive student as of this aft. I think the first in the UC system.

  82. 82.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Mnemosyne:

    Anecdotal evidence, but a few self-described Trump supporters over on the r/coronavirus subreddit are very unhappy with Trump’s handling of this crisis to the point of claiming they’re not voting for him this fall.

    I think this virus is going to wake a lot of people up and I hate that this is what it might take to do so

  84. 84.

    Martin

    @MisterForkbeard: Oh, misunderstanding there. On Super Tuesday Bernie had an event in VT on election night. I don’t know if he’ll  have one tonight, but I doubt it because they cancelled  the rally in Ohio due  to coronavirus.

    My point being that returning to VT signifies nothing,  as you note.

  85. 85.

    dmsilev

    @Martin: We have a possible (test results still pending). Haven’t heard anything about closing, but tomorrow is the last day of classes since we’re on a quarter system.  At least initially it would just be exams and we’d have a couple of weeks to finish spooling up the prep for remote teaching before the spring quarter starts.

  86. 86.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Dr. Jill Stein@DrJillStein
    · 2h
    MSNBC is FOX for liberals.
    Russiagate is Benghazi for liberals.
    “Return to normal” is MAGA for Democrats. #DemExit

    Chris Hayes looks like he’s coming to grips with the death of the Dream

  87. 87.

    MazeDancer

    Five years ago, Black Women alerted me to what a lying grifter Bernie is.

    Only change: what an inept lying, grifter he is.

    Four years to win the Dem base. What did Bernie do? Not go to Selma.

    Go away you charlatan, go away.

  88. 88.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: Not ever. It’s in his will. He estate will pay for him to run for the Democratic nomination for 200 years after he dies. He still won’t be a registered Democrat, just running for the Democratic nomination.

  89. 89.

    Hungry Joe

    My Bernie bro relatives insist that almost no one is voting for Biden: the polls are rigged , the voting machines are rigged, the computers are rigged — all by the DNC. They know this because not a single person they’ve talked to supports Biden. And Elizabeth Warren is the worst of the bunch, an egomaniacal warmongering corporatist with blood on her hands … because she challenged Bernie and swiped his ideas, because she hasn’t endorsed him, and because she has voted for the budget. Which funds the military. Which kills people. Bernie bros are real, I tell you.

  90. 90.

    sdhays

    Since Dump will definitely continue having his rallies for his lunatic followers since no matter how much officials tell him how dangerous it is he doesn’t believe them, how risky is it for the person up on the podium vomiting verbal diarrhea out of his rectum-like pie-hole if some of the regular attendees (i.e. not VIP’s who get personally introduced) are infected with COVID-19? Obviously, the people around the sick people are SOL, but what about the Twitler himself?

  91. 91.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I’m relieved. We gotta get out of the thinking about it phase and into the doing phase.

    It’s the right decision. It’ll be a pain in the ass. We’ll all be better off for it in the end. On to the next task.

  94. 94.

    dmsilev

    @Hungry Joe:

    And Elizabeth Warren is the worst of the bunch, an egomaniacal warmongering corporatist with blood on her hands … because she challenged Bernie and swiped his ideas, because she hasn’t endorsed him.

    Gosh, who could have possibly predicted that an organized campaign to call Warren and all of her supporters a bunch of snakes etc. might have slightly tilted their perceptions of Sanders and his crew?

    Besides “everyone except for Sanders and his crew”, of course.

  98. 98.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Anya: Sanders heading back to Vermont tonight might mean he is consulting his campaign advisors whether to continue or concede? ?

    And Jane will tell him, You drop out & “Dis”Barr’s gonna drop an indictment on me for that little Burlington College dustup. Nuh-uh!

  99. 99.

    dmsilev

    Tulsi Gabbard clinging to 0.7 percent of the Michigan vote so far. The dream lives on!

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): From Obama’s CMS administrator:

  103. 103.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Even the BernieBro

     

    At this point it would be a shock if Sanders gets within 10 points of Biden in Michigan.

    — Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) March 11, 2020

  104. 104.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Now it’s on to Washington state, and let’s win there!

  110. 110.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    ex-Bush flack Nicolle Wallace making ten times more sense than eternal graduate student Chris Hayes about how politics actually work: You have to win elections first.

  111. 111.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Back to the pandemic for a moment….

    Coronavirus cancellations financially devastating for SF performers and nightlife

    It’s bad, really bad. I co-produce a show and we just cancelled this months show. Both out of safety concerns and being realistic that turnout would be abysmal (even with good turn out we rarely break-even).

    Thankfully, I have had a day job, so I’ve got a financial cushion, but I’ve got a lot of friends who are terrified about not being able to paid for rent, or even food, if this keeps up much longer — which it undoubtedly will. The vast majority of them at best are in low-level service jobs, without sick leave, a lot are in the gig economy where a payroll tax cut won’t do them any damn good, nor can they file for unemployment.

    The closures, cancellations and limits on crowd sizes are necessary, but the economic fallout is going to be substantial.

  116. 116.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: His wife gave him a copy of Lysistrata to read. While he’s sleeping on the couch for the next several days.

  119. 119.

    piratedan

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah… good luck telling the Lab people to self quarantine….and not docs and nurses and janitorial staff and delivery personnel…

     

    it’s not just ONE group of medical professionals… and to be fair, what hurt China and is nailing Italy the most is not just the lack of beds, I can bet you that they’re most likely running thru everything because of the volume of testing that is being done, so that means, syringes, containers, masks, gowns, gloves, specimen labels, bags and racks and reagents for the instruments, food for the sick, IV fluids, medicine itself….. the list goes on and on.. which also kind of cycles back to Trump fucking over Puerto Rico, because that’s where the majority of the suppliers who handled IV fluids were set up and I bet they’re still not fully up to speed.

  120. 120.

    Marcopolo

    Wow, there were over 800K absentee ballots cast in MI. According to MSNBC there were places where requests for absentee ballots were up 180% over 2016. 81% return rate for all requested ballots.

    And MI called for Biden on the back of, wait for it, white voters. AA vote margin pretty similar to Sanders/Clinton.

  122. 122.

    Mary G

    Politico says that even with more coronavirus test kits available, labs are still not going to be able to run them:

    The growing scarcity of these “RNA extraction” kits is the latest trouble for U.S. labs, which have struggled to implement widespread coronavirus testing in the seven weeks since the country diagnosed its first case. Epidemiologists and public health officials say that the delayed rollout, caused in part by a botched CDC test, has masked the scope of the U.S. outbreak and hobbled efforts to limit it.

  125. 125.

    tam1MI

    From an earlier thread:

     

    I just got back from crushing the dreams and blighting the futures of the Bernie Brats (i.e., I voted for Biden in Michigan ;) ). Despite the fact that my precinct had a new computer system, everything went smoothly. Anecdotally, if Bernie is counting on a huge youth turnout in Michigan to pull him over the line, he’s not getting it in my precinct. I was the youngest person in the room.

  126. 126.

    C Stars

    @Hungry Joe: Ugh, I made the mistake of responding to an acquaintance on FB last week who was commenting that a vote for Warren was a vote to sabotage progressive values; I was quite affable and polite in response and just pushed back by mentioning a couple of actual reasons why I was voting for Warren…anyway I saw that person last week, said hello in a friendly way (I’d honestly sort of forgotten about the FB thing) and got the cold shoulder!!

    Shocking that someone would actually carry such an insignificant beef into real life. Anyway, I blocked my FB page from my browser the next day (I have to keep an account for some work/volunteer reasons) because I kept being tempted into to responding to offensive Bernie posts. It’s such a horrible place. Nothing good happens there.

  127. 127.

    sdhays

    @Mary G: These fucking people. All these other countries, technologically advanced countries, are using the WHO test, but the US? No. We’re so exceptional we decide that we’re going to show the world how it’s done and come up with our own damn test and fuck around for a couple months getting it right while doing fuck all other than shutting down travel to and from China, which we knew was unlikely to be effective.

    America sure is exceptional. Exceptionally stupid.

  129. 129.

    C Stars

    @tam1MI: Just heard something along those lines on NPR. Those younger voters just aren’t showing up, according to the exit polls. The ones who do, though, are overwhelmingly voting for Bernie.

  130. 130.

    Adam L Silverman

    This is a doozy!

  134. 134.

    sdhays

    @Adam L Silverman: When you have to say “This tweet will age well.” in the actual tweet itself, you’re not that confident that it’s actually going to “age well”.

  135. 135.

    Eolirin

    You know, I think Biden has a real shot at having an Obama 08 like victory map right now. I think Ohio and Georgia and North Carolina are in play. I think we’re going to win Florida.

    Dunno about Indiana.

  139. 139.

    Mary G

    Last days in Saigon stuff right now at @washingtonpost HQ after we were "encouraged" to work from home starting tomorrow. A long procession of diligent journalists taking home their office plants.— Ishaan Tharoor (@ishaantharoor) March 10, 2020

  143. 143.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: Ugh! I try to forget she exists. She’s such a grifter. She doesn’t believe a single thing she writes or says. She’s just doing it for money.

    My Muslim cousin always jokes that the only way she’ll make money is if she sold her soul and became the Candace Owens of the African Muslims.

  145. 145.

    piratedan

    @Adam L Silverman: i guess  following Ms. Owens line of reasoning, we all should have been radioactive ash about 25-35 years ago….because once something is created, there’s simply no way to control it…

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the TeeVee dynamic for the night is Chris Hayes’ “who farted?” face while Nicolle Wallace lays out some cold truths about Bernie Sanders

  149. 149.

    Elizabelle

    You guys probably mentioned this in an earlier thread, but Coachella is definitely postponed until October.

    I somehow think the Rolling Stones will be delaying their 2020 concert season too.

  150. 150.

    Anya

    @rikyrah: I’ve heard she quit. This made me super sad because I’ve always enjoyed Kay’s posts. I think we need her voice but I understand if she no longer felt like she belonged here.

  151. 151.

    japa21

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Well I’m an old (not quite 80) and got Influenza A early February. Obviously not dead.

    However, I am high risk for this one not just because of age but also because I smoked for 52 years.  Quit cold turkey just over a year ago, but it is safe to say my lungs are probably compromised.

    Heard the death rate from COVID19 for people in my category is between 10-15%. Much higher than flu.

  159. 159.

    MomSense

    My son’s principal emailed us to say that students will be marked present if they show evidence of doing work (they use a google drive network for their work) and that they don’t want students to come to school if they are sick.  They also want parents to be able to keep students home to protect students or family members who have immune deficiencies or any underlying health concerns.

  160. 160.

    eemom

    @Baud:

    Chris Hayes gets a clue about sexism.

    Fun fact: he graduated from the once all girl Hunter College High School in NYC, which also produced (in no order) Justice Elena Kagan, Cynthia Nixon, Ruby Dee, many other celebrated and accomplished women, Lin Manuel Miranda, et moi.

  163. 163.

    Sure Lurkalot

    I realize that you never step in the same river twice, but it’s a little depressing for me that Biden is outstripping Hillary vs Bernie. And the lack of youth vote…you may tut tut that Bernie didn’t inspire them as he did in 2016, but what’s it going to take to get them to engage? I’m childless…I really don’t know but I’m all in for ideas to get them to the polls in November. I’m an old…but I have always voted from the time I earned the franchise. I just don’t get it.

  164. 164.

    Marcopolo

    @Adam L Silverman: To clarify, Sanders is winning the youth vote by a huge margin BUT the youth vote share of the overall vote in 2020 is smaller than it was in 2016.  Which I do think is worrisome.  We need to get the kids out at as high a level as is possible in Nov.

  166. 166.

    Kent

    @Uncle Cosmo:And Jane will tell him, You drop out & “Dis”Barr’s gonna drop an indictment on me for that little Burlington College dustup. Nuh-uh!

    Probably more likely if he stays in and becomes the nominee.  If he is gone they will lose attention.  Barr is just keeping all that stuff in the back pocket in case he comes out winning.

  169. 169.

    Miss Bianca

    @Hildebrand: Completely o/t, did you say you were a pastor at a black church on the east side? I grew up in Grosse Pointe, but for a while there in high school I was going to a church on the east side at Jefferson and Chalmers, where my friend’s dad was pastor, mixed-race (small) congregation. It was Eastminster Presbyterian back then, but I think the building eventually got sold to another denomination (Primitive Baptist, I want to say – is that even a thing?).

    Anyway, just wanted to say it’s nice to hear a voice from the east side.

     

    @Baud: Oh, yeah! I was actually a bit worried about that – forgot Michigan has early voting now, I was afraid that low turnout on Election Day meant that people were staying home in droves and not voting.

  170. 170.

    Adam L Silverman

    @japa21: She’s an idiot.

    Take care of yourself. Too many of our readers, commenters, and lurkers have passed over the past two years for my tastes.

  175. 175.

    Martin

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): We’re at about 10% odds we’ll have commencement.

    That’s going to be one of my next tasks, since my kid is going to be in that commencement.

    I’m modeling out doing a major by major commencement instead of giant campus-sized ones. Large majors would split up into separate ceremonies by name, or they’d sign up, or whatever. Try and keep the groups down around 50 students/250 guests.

    That’s still around 100 ceremonies, but maybe we can pull that off.

  176. 176.

    Kent

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:@Baud: I’ll admit it: I want Biden to win Flint to spite Michael Moore

    NYT shows Flint going to Biden 58% to 34% with about 1/2 precincts reporting.   Which is utterly unsurprising.  It’s a heavily African American city.

  177. 177.

    Adam L Silverman

    @West of the Rockies: Yes, but… We definitely could have. We might still be able to, but it would require a major effort and focus over the rest of this week with the rollout next week. Odds of this happening are very slim. They can’t even get the President to sign the national emergency documentation allowing for Washington and other states to fully leverage Federal flexibilities and aid.

  179. 179.

    Ken

    @Percysowner: I gave about 1000 word reply that I can sum up as “Well, DUH!”

    Well, as Stephen King said about editing, “Kill your darlings, kill your darlings, even when it breaks your egocentric little scribbler’s heart, kill your darlings.”

    At least I hope he was talking about editing.

  182. 182.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Marcopolo: As I said in 2016, as I said in 2018, and as I’ve already said in 2020: if you are counting on young people to vote in order to win, you are going to lose.

  183. 183.

    L85NJGT

    Michigan universities and colleges are coming off of or going on spring break.

    No way they could get those college students organized in 24 hours.

  184. 184.

    sdhays

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Bernie saw how the Dump campaign took over the Republican Party with a small plurality of support and concluded that he could do the same to the Democratic Party. He failed to appreciate that the Republican Party was already so rotten that it lacked the ability or will to fight back, but the Democratic Party doesn’t have that particular problem. The Democratic Party nominating process, which Bernie helped devise, is also not set up to reward that kind of campaign the way the Republican Party’s 2016 process was.

    It’s pretty fitting that the laziness and refusal to adapt in any way that has typified Bernie’s approach to politics would also be the cause of his failure in 2020.

  185. 185.

    The Dangerman

    @sdhays:

    Since Dump will definitely continue having his rallies for his lunatic followers…

    Eventually, his lunatic followers are going to say “fuck that”, leaving only the paid ones, who will also stop coming, and he’ll be forced to only doing his schtick in front of only an “audience” of flags, each in danger of being used in ways uninteinded by the flag makers. He’s riding his shit down to the ground like Slim Pickens (hmmm, kinda apt name for Trump, come to think of it) in Dr. Strangelove (hmmm, also apropos).

  187. 187.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca:

    Primitive Baptist, I want to say – is that even a thing?

    Yes it is. I had a student at USAWC, who was a chaplain from that denomination. One of my favorite Army chaplains. He was a hoot!

  188. 188.

    JMG

    A math question. Is youth vote turnout down in absolute numbers, or is it just that the older voters are turning out in much bigger numbers than 2016? Percentages of the total don’t tell us that.

  189. 189.

    Elizabelle

    Happy about Biden taking Michigan.  My biggest wish this week.  More breathing a bit easier.

  190. 190.

    opiejeanne

    Kornacke is sure living in Bernie’s past glory, showing how Bernie beat Hillary in 2016 over and over and over. It’s a little tiring.

  191. 191.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Geez,

    Maddow is angrily demanding Biden bend a knee to Bernie and adopt his policy positions, give Sanders a say so on major decisions (including Veep choice) and hire his incompetent campaign staff for the good of the election.  She doesn’t demand Sanders do anything for the good of the election.

     

    Nutzo

  193. 193.

    Kent

    @Elizabelle: Mick Jagger is 76 and Keith Richards is 77.  Basically a year younger than Biden.

    All of them are war babies.  Too old to be boomers.

  197. 197.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Kent: Tightrope walking for BS. If he doesn’t stay in & make enough trouble for Biden, the indictment will drop. If he makes enough trouble to take the nomination (still possible, but most roads require Biden to lapse into a vegetative state or worse), the indictment will drop. About the only way out is to keep punching, fall just short, keep a low profile through Election Day & hope Biden’s AG passes on measuring Ms BS up for an orange jumpsuit. Except that won’t work either, if Needy Amin loses Barr will drop the indictment out of pure spite.

    Tough choices!

  198. 198.

    Kent

    Anyone know when we might expect to see some WA numbers?  I assume after 9 PST.  The presidential primary was the only thing on the ballot so shouldn’t be hard to count.  I sent mine in last Weds.

    EDIT:   WA State Sec. of State office web sites says results starting 8:20 PST

  202. 202.

    Peale

    @JMG: my guess is that the cohort considered young last time “18-30” included the final group of voters who were registered during 2008, which was a mobilizing election.

  203. 203.

    Kent

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:Maddow is angrily demanding Biden bend a knee to Bernie and adopt his policy positions, give Sanders a say so on major decisions (including Veep choice) and hire his incompetent campaign staff for the good of the election.  She doesn’t demand Sanders do anything for the good of the election.

    If he wants to win, he should be adopting Clyburn’s policy positions and hiring his staff.

  206. 206.

    sdhays

    @The Dangerman: I think it was Keynes who coined the phase (or something close to it), “Eventually, we’re all dead.”

    I wonder how long it will take for his lunatic followers to figure out that (figuratively) drinking bleach is actually not good health advice.

  208. 208.

    Anya

    @JMG: According to Kornacki, young voters aren’t showing up at the polls as much as 2016. Sanders is also not winning them with the same percentage.

  209. 209.

    PsiFighter37

    I’ll be so happy if Bernie isn’t running by the time NY’s primary rolls around at the end of next month. This dude is about to flame out, and hard. Tad Devine and Jeff Weaver are fucking laughing all the way to the bank while dragging their bag full of $27 bills.

  210. 210.

    japa21

    Looking ahead, next Tuesday it’s FL, OH, IL and AZ.  Biden is up over 20  points in all of them.  Much more than that in FL.  Don’t see the next debate doing much to change that.  Biden will end tonight up close to 150 delegates (maybe more) and will probably end next week up 300.  So of course Bernie will stay in.

  211. 211.

    Martin

    @West of the Rockies: I think we’re probably past that point. Based on the number of fatalities, we’re about 5 days behind them, and they’ve been at this for a few weeks. Plus we’re a much bigger and more distributed country.

    Put another way, we’d probably need 10x the effort.  And you can’t do it without the feds. That’s really what fucked us up – it doesn’t matter much what you do at the state level to contain if the feds let anyone just breeze through your airport, roll in on the interstate.

    We can mitigate without those steps, but that doesn’t get us to South Korea. FWIW, it’s unclear that China and SK will be able to maintain this state. If this is going to be a global phenomena for the next 6-12 months, can they stay  locked down that tight for that long? Maybe. I’m genuinely unsure.

    For our campus plans it was ‘what can we tolerate for 2 weeks, and will it solve the problem once and for all’ and ‘what can we tolerate for 6-12 months, and will it maintain a tolerable state for that period’. We couldn’t get the first to work. We’re too dependent on international interaction. It would destroy us. But a mitigation plan, yeah, we can do that for quite a long time.

    So, realistically, I don’t see we can shut the US down to such a degree to stop this. We can’t wall off from Europe for a year to ensure it doesn’t return.

  212. 212.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Thoughts of Dog® @dog_feelings
    the human has been working from home the last couple days. and every so often. they let me participate in the video calls. all the other humans cheer when they see me. i am the only thing holding their company together

  214. 214.

    sdhays

    @Baud: The only shortcoming that matters is the one they’re least likely to talk about.

    Hint: It’s (not) between her legs.

  216. 216.

    Kent

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    @Kent: Tightrope walking for BS. If he doesn’t stay in & make enough trouble for Biden, the indictment will drop. If he makes enough trouble to take the nomination (still possible, but most roads require Biden to lapse into a vegetative state or worse), the indictment will drop. About the only way out is to keep punching, fall just short, keep a low profile through Election Day & hope Biden’s AG passes on measuring Ms BS up for an orange jumpsuit. Except that won’t work either, if Needy Amin loses Barr will drop the indictment out of pure spite.

    Tough choices!

    His best choice is to make sure Biden wins at this point.

  217. 217.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    Chris Hayes is clinging.

    He says so much has changed in 5 weeks so they can change again.  He also things no one will vote in Georgia (biden state) out of fear of getting the coronavirus.

    So he’s back to the denial stage of the 5 stages of grief.

  218. 218.

    The Dangerman

    @Martin:

    That’s still around 100 ceremonies, but maybe we can pull that off.

    Good luck pulling that off. My niece is graduating this year (not in California) and I think chances are close to zero of a commencement.

    What is weird is I haven’t heard a word – not even a whisper – not even a “please wash your hands” out of Cal Poly. I don’t know what the fuck is up there (I think they are in Finals next week so maybe they are just trying to get Winter Quarter in and then call it).

  220. 220.

    Anya

    @Baud: Baud to Susan Sarandon
    Right now you are
    down and out and
    feeling really crappy

    I’ll say.

    And when I see how
    sad you are
    it sort of makes me…
    happy!

    Sorry, Susan, human nature —
    nothing I can do!
    It’s…
    schadenfreude!
    Making me feel glad
    that I’m not you!

  222. 222.

    Martin

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:

    Maddow is angrily demanding Biden bend a knee to Bernie and adopt his policy positions, give Sanders a say so on major decisions (including Veep choice) and hire his incompetent campaign staff for the good of the election.  She doesn’t demand Sanders do anything for the good of the election.

    No. She’s hoping Biden extends enough respect to Bernie supporters and what they care about so they don’t sit out in November and hand MI, WI, and PA to Trump by 70K votes.

    And for the sake of all of us, I hope he does. I don’t care to see revenge against Bernie’s supporters – even the toxic ones. I just want Trump out. Bernie won’t run again if Biden wins in Nov. He might if Biden loses. So, as a gift to my 2024 self, if Biden needs to give every Bernie Bro a reacharound, I’m good with that. Do it. Run up the score.

  223. 223.

    Kent

    Clyburn was on NPR this evening suggesting that if Biden sweeps, they should cancel the upcoming debate.    I don’t see that happening.  But the DNC should reformat it into a referendum on Trump.  Basically give Biden and Sanders chance to take turns debating Trump in absencia.   Let them compete on who can rip Trump a bigger asshole.

    I’m not exactly sure how you do that.  But just eliminate all the debate questions about each other and policy disputes and make every single one about TRUMP.

    Since this election is about Trump, let them each make the case as to who is the stronger opponent to Trump.

  225. 225.

    Another Scott

    @sdhays:

    But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task, if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us, that when the storm is long past, the ocean is flat again.

    – J.M. Keynes A Tract on Monetary Reform (1923), Ch. 3, p. 80

    He was right, of course!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  226. 226.

    Mnemosyne

    @Marcopolo:

    And MI called for Biden on the back of, wait for it, white voters. AA vote margin pretty similar to Sanders/Clinton.

    Like I’ve been saying, I think that “Vote Like A Black Woman” got a pretty good amount of traction among white Democrats after the fiasco of 2016 and — more importantly — the huge success of that strategy in 2018. People like to win.

  228. 228.

    Kent

    @Omnes Omnibus:@Kent: Shouldn’t you be telling them to stop touring to give younger bands a chance?

    Are they displacing younger bands?   I kind of doubt it judging by my daughter’s playlist.   If the only thing on spotify was Beatles, Stones, and Dylan I might feel differently.  I wouldn’t give them any grammys based on stuff they wrote in 1968

    Music isn’t a zero sum game.  Politics is.

  230. 230.

    sdhays

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: How much of this is the pain that they feel about soon not having a Democratic Primary to cover? The media tends to be very whiny about political actors failing to produce enough content for them to jabber on about.

    They might have to talk about….other stuff. The horror!! Is anything important even going to happen between now and September?? ?

  231. 231.

    L85NJGT

    Biden picked up another 20 basis points in California today. Any projections on the final margin?

  232. 232.

    Anya

    @Adam L Silverman: The Bernie team are still making their argument why Bernie should be the nominee based on his ability to “energize the youth vote” and “bring new voters”. After today, I hope they retire that argument.

  236. 236.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Anya: kind of a weird discourse on MSNBC: Biden has to make concessions to Bernie to bring out the youth vote that didn’t turn out for Bernie.

  237. 237.

    Kattails

    @Anya:  I asked the same question a little further back, but this surprises me. Her comments were insightful and I felt she got respectful responses. Maybe I was  missing something. Now I see your note and Adam saying she “flounced herself out of here” which is a word I wouldn’t have associated with her.

    @Adam L Silverman: as above.

  238. 238.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Baud: I miss her. I hope one of our frontpagers can reach out to see how she’s doing and invite her to come back when things have quieted a little.

     

    She was the most insightful person here, and that’s actually saying something.

  239. 239.

    kindness

    I work in a hospital in Modesto.  No one is freaking out but we all figure that wave will crash over us at some point.  There are 3 other hospitals in the city so it’ll get shared.  We don’t really talk about it but most of us figure of course we’ll get it.  We’ll be exposed just by proximity.  I don’t work with patients but the office is in the hospital so…. I figure I’ll be fine.  I’m old but healthy.

    And if it takes a damned virus for dumb shits to think maybe I shouldn’t be voting for Trump, bless that damned virus.

  240. 240.

    Hildebrand

    @Miss Bianca: I am at Genesis Lutheran on the corner of Mack and Grand Blvd (not far from Belle Isle) – we sit on the site where Eastern High School used to be.

  241. 241.

    Martin

    @The Dangerman: All the CSUs are on semesters now. Shouldn’t have finals until May. Midterms now though.

    But the CSUs are a bit behind the UCs. Easier for 10 UC campuses to interact and share info than 26. We also have a different range of issues to deal with.

    3 CSUs have announced, though, so I’d expect any day now.

  243. 243.

    zhena gogolia

    @Martin:

    I’m starting to hear from seniors who are so sad — even though ours hasn’t become official, the grapevine is at work among the students. I hope there’ll be some way to do something (we’re much, much smaller).

  245. 245.

    sdhays

    @Martin: Based on 2016, I’m not sure what could be given to Sanders and his supporters to make them happy. Biden isn’t the sort to tell them to “eat shit” (which would be Bernie’s attitude if the shoe were on the other foot), but I just don’t see what concessions could be made. The people we seem to be worried about hate Warren for nonsensical reasons; they want Bernie or nothing. Sanders isn’t the kind of guy to get a few things added to the platform and then be super enthusiastic, and that translates downward.

    Either they work through that mental illness and vote against Dump, or they’re Susan Sarandon and they can eat shit. I think that 2018 suggests that we don’t need to bend over backwards trying to appease people who simply will not be appeased.

  247. 247.

    Martin

    @zhena gogolia: Try my suggestion. The only real problem with commencement is the size and density. Scale it down – make it more personal. Instead of a top-of-institution planning effort, make it a program level effort. It won’t be as fancy, but it actually  might be more memorable.

  248. 248.

    Kent

    @zhena gogolia: @Martin: I’m starting to hear from seniors who are so sad — even though ours hasn’t become official, the grapevine is at work among the students. I hope there’ll be some way to do something (we’re much, much smaller).

    I’ve got a senior graduating from Univ. of Arkansas in May.  We already have the plane tickets to fly the whole family out.  No word yet on graduation.  Maybe they will break it up and have small ceremonies within each department or something.  There has to be a shitload of parents ready to fly out.

    But much worse for her.  She is graduating with a degree in Public Relations and Marketing with an emphasis on travel and leisure industry such as cruise ships, resorts, and hotels.  She is fucked for looking for jobs with the travel industry in June 2020.

  250. 250.

    Miss Bianca

    @Sister Golden Bear: Oh, that is so terrible. I work at a small theater in an even smaller town, and I’ve been dreading what will happen if we are forced to close for any amount of time. But I at least have a bit of a cushion, unlike your poor friends. : (

  252. 252.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    No. She’s hoping Biden extends enough respect to Bernie supporters and what they care about so they don’t sit out in November and hand MI, WI, and PA to Trump by 70K votes.

    I have no problem with that. But the Bernie bros are whipping themselves up into a “we ain’t gonna vote” frenzy. Too many of them are cultists.  They don’t see Trump or the damage that he is doing to the country.  They only see the Democrats who refuse to embrace their beloved Saint Bernie.

  253. 253.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    When you’re required to post propaganda to get your paycheck, but your heart isn’t in it. Even Trumpkins are starting to realize that we’re in deep shit with no chance of escape before November.

  254. 254.

    Martin

    @sdhays: You do simple things. And honest things. If Congress indicates they’re open to M4A (maybe a pandemic opens that window) say you’ll throw your support behind it.

    Stop acting like a Senator that writes legislation, answer like a President that only gets to sign or veto it. Would he sign college for all? Would he sign Medicare for all? Would he sign all of Bernies legislation if Congress passed it?

    I think those are easy ‘yes’ answers for Biden. He just disagrees that those bills can be passed.

  255. 255.

    sdhays

    @MisterForkbeard: Yes, it was always useful to read Kay’s comments. I hope she comes back too, although at the time she seemed to think that she wouldn’t be coming back – she pointedly didn’t say she’d be back after the primaries were over or similar. Just that she felt that the discussions on the site weren’t the discussions she wanted to have anymore.

    But hopefully she’ll try us out again anyway.

  256. 256.

    Sab

    My dad’s nursing home in NE Ohio sent out a message that they are restricting visiting hours. We have to check-in at the front desk, answer some questions and get our temperatures taken, and visits limited to 15 minutes., and stay away from the other residents.

    What a relief.

  257. 257.

    Kent

    @sdhays:@Martin: Based on 2016, I’m not sure what could be given to Sanders and his supporters to make them happy. Biden isn’t the sort to tell them to “eat shit” (which would be Bernie’s attitude if the shoe were on the other foot), but I just don’t see what concessions could be made. The people we seem to be worried about hate Warren for nonsensical reasons; they want Bernie or nothing. Sanders isn’t the kind of guy to get a few things added to the platform and then be super enthusiastic, and that translates downward.

    Biden should hire as many of them as he can for local organizing stuff.  No possible harm in that.  Turn the Bernie folks out to do GOTV on campuses and stuff.  Let Bloomberg pay for it.  Make it a Biden PAC if they have to in order to get around finance rules.

  259. 259.

    Martin

    @Brachiator: Emotions are temporal and situational. They’ll be different in 6 months – particularly if Biden indicates he hears their policy desires. Some will hold out, he just needs to grab as many as he can.

  260. 260.

    Anya

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s like they can’t let go of some of their greatest hits. They’ve been talking about Bernie’s revolution and how he’ll energize the youth vote since 2016. But after every primary vote so far showed that’s not the case, they still can’t let go of that. What’s interesting is in one segment they’d mention how the youth vote is down and how Bernie is losing his 2016 support among youth voters and “white working class,” and in the next segment they’ll talk about how Biden needs to court Bernie because he energizes the youth vote. WTF!  The media still can’t come to terms with the fact that Bernie Sanders’s coalition isn’t that big and it is getting even smaller.

  265. 265.

    Another Scott

    @Kattails:

    Some of the lead-up to it was in this thread – balloon-juice.com/2020/02/16/election-year-open-thread-mike-bloomberg-welcome-to-the-world-of-stop-f…

    Her GBCW was in this thread – balloon-juice.com/2020/02/17/monday-morning-open-thread-74/

    tl;dr – She seemed very upset by Bloomberg getting so much traction, and it seemed to me she was upset by (in contrast) so much vitriol against Bernie (especially given his polling at the time).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  267. 267.

    Renie

    OT: DId I miss the discussion about Matt Gaetz sleeping in a Wal-mart parking lot last night on his way from driving from Wash DC to Florida?  This to me is such karma.  He is one of the worst!

  270. 270.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: I think we’re also seeing, as unpleasant as it is, the reality of just how much of the vote for Sanders in the primaries in certain states in 2016 wasn’t really pro-Bernie, but anti-Hillary.

  274. 274.

    Kent

    @Martin:

    @sdhays: You do simple things. And honest things. If Congress indicates they’re open to M4A (maybe a pandemic opens that window) say you’ll throw your support behind it.

    Stop acting like a Senator that writes legislation, answer like a President that only gets to sign or veto it. Would he sign college for all? Would he sign Medicare for all? Would he sign all of Bernies legislation if Congress passed it?

    I think those are easy ‘yes’ answers for Biden. He just disagrees that those bills can be passed.

    Yes this.  The answers are ridiculously easy.

    QUESTION:  Would you vote for M4A?

    ANSWER:  The Democratic party is going to be working 24/7 to bring health care to all Americans.  That is going to be the number 1 priority of the next Democratic Congress.  I will support that effort in every way that I can and will support any Democratic efforts that improve health care coverage for all Americans.  My preferred solution is a public option.  But it obviously isn’t the only solution.  Various countries around the world have successfully done it a variety of ways.

    QUESTION:  But what about M4A?

    ANSWER:  If the Congress decides that M4A is the best approach given our health care realities in 2021 such as fighting the coronavirus, then I would of course support it.  As I would any Democratic legislation that improves health care for all Americans.  But we are a long way away from that.

    This stuff should be easy.

  275. 275.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kent: good answers… I hope some Biden adviser is lurking, or at least thinking along those lines

  277. 277.

    Miss Bianca

    @Hildebrand: Eastern High is gone? Oh, man. Well, it’s been a while since I’ve been back – almost 15 years! A lot can happen in that time.

  278. 278.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott:   Yeah, I remember that.  Hoping that since two of the Bs are out of the race (one formally, one now for all practical purposes) Kay will come back.

    She’s from Ohio, and it sounded like a lot of her local Dems (and others) liked Sanders?  Disaffected folks?  It seemed she was concerned we were not giving Bernie his due.

    Anyway, perhaps someone will be an envoy to her …

  280. 280.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Kattails: She decided, as did a couple of others, that she couldn’t abide how the banning of a commenter was done and handled. This caused a fair amount of behind the scenes heartburn as well. But ultimately John backed the call to ban that person. Here’s the actual comment from her about why she left.

    JANUARY 14, 2020 AT 8:48 AM

    I’m going to vote with raven here. I don’t think it fits with the general culture of this place to do a lot of policing. People can skip comments. There’s no duty to read people you don’t like.

    Also, it’s a politics blog. It will get “divisive”. That’s the nature of the thing. I get that a lot of you are opposed to Bernie but he’s a top tier candidate and his supporters are allowed to support him. There are tens of millions of them. They’re not all “trolls”.”

  281. 281.

    opiejeanne

    @Adam L Silverman: A while back the Primitive Baptists were referred to in the back woods and hollers as “Foot-Washin’ Baptists”. A more conservative group than the Free Will Baptists.

  284. 284.

    Mnemosyne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We decided as a society that we were not allowed to discuss the obvious and vicious misogyny against Hillary. The media propped up the paper tiger that is Bernie Sanders so they could continue to claim that it was a problem with Hillary personally and not misogyny.

    So. Much. Delusion.

  285. 285.

    Ruckus

    @Kelly:

    A lot of people vote only on what directly affects them. This mishandling of the entire process plus getting rid of people that actually had a fucking clue directly affects, well everyone but some to a greater degree than others. Seniors, those with a weakened system, etc, IOW probably someone they know. And really it wouldn’t take a large number to move away from shit for brains to sink the entire party, seeing as how the party seems to have decided that they are all in, all trump, all the time. I can imagine that a fair number of people won’t agree with that, given what we see going on.

  289. 289.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Renie: Was he sleeping off the booze?

    A guy was passed out next to my driveway tonight, saw him when I took the trash out, same position when I took the dogs out a hour later.  Kind of thought he’d passed, but some of his fellow guys(think he’s one of the day laborers at the local Home Depot) roused him and they walked away.

  290. 290.

    Brachiator

    @Martin:

    Emotions are temporal and situational. They’ll be different in 6 months – particularly if Biden indicates he hears their policy desires. Some will hold out, he just needs to grab as many as he can.

    We will see what happens. I noticed Bernie Bros firing up their eternal anger against Democrats as soon as South Carolina results came in, and saw it intensify with Super Tuesday.

    Unlike the Balloon Juicer Pledge to vote for the nominee no matter what, I have never seen a similar sentiment coming from Sanders supporters.

    To the contrary, instead of rage against Trump, I keep seeing rehashing of how Hillary and Obama failed America.

    But Biden says he can work with anyone. This may be an interesting challenge.

  292. 292.

    Ruckus

    @Kent:

    There is a period of time between November and January. And it’s not like the repubs and trump have never been vindictive before….

  294. 294.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But smarter than the snake handling Baptists!

    No one is more stupid than snake handling fundys!!

    And they split into more stupid and less stupid. The more stupid ones won’t call for an ambulance when the snake bites them, they just pray louder and die faster. Less stupid ones call 911 and live.

  296. 296.

    opiejeanne

    @The Dangerman: The Pomona campus is planning for remote teaching next quarter. They say the risk is low to students and staff right now, according to local health officials but it looks like they’ll pull the plug on classes if anyone tests positive.

    I don’t know how the music department will handle this. Private lessons are possible with the internet, and academic classes too, but all of the performance classes will be toast. I have a mental (and aural) image of the orchestra trying to perform together on Skype.

  297. 297.

    terry chay

    @Sure Lurkalot: There is a lot of evidence that the youth turnout is low because it is a PROMARY and not presidential race. Despite what the Berniistas and news will tell you, a lot of the YOUTS are okay with anyone as long as it is not Trump.

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