The charges that Flynn pled guilty to.
Early warning a half-hour ago
Yes, I’m going to bigfoot MisterMix. I’m also going to say something that will probably piss off others here. I am sick to death of hearing nothing from elected Democrats when the President of the United States is fine with tens of thousands of American deaths. When that same President is destroying the Justice Department and the CDC. Where the fuck are they?
Baud
With good reason.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
No, it doesn’t
waspuppet
Good God Republicans hate this country so much. They don’t talk about killing terrorists with the same glee they talk about pissing “libruls” off.
Emerald
And thus AG Barr comes fully out into the open as entirely corrupt. Not even trying to hide it anymore.
Which tells me that the tRump insiders have an escape plan for after (or just before) the election.
Is my tinfoil shining nicely today?
Brachiator
This is some I, Claudius level shit.
The God Emperor Trumpius Phonius, the Orange Faced, rescues his friends and openly punishes his enemies, and the plebians who love him cheer and clap.
hueyplong
Trump sure seems to have “learned his lesson.”
I’ll remind Cheryl that it wasn’t the Democrats that kept his ass in office.
MattF
I expect Trump to pardon himself. And then SCOTUS will declare that the god-king/lawgiver has an inherent right to do that.
hueyplong
@MattF: After this news today, I no longer believe it’s absurd to think Trump could get away with pardoning himself.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Emerald:
Probably not. They rely on other people continuing to follow norms and laws. They believe that things will continue as they always have. Barr, and other Republicans, have not studied history and will pay for it
Dorothy A. Winsor
I need to go away and do something else before blood bursts out of the veins on my temples.
Adam L Silverman
The charges are not dropped. DOJ has asked Judge Sullivan who is handling the case to approve DOJ’s request and allow the charges to be dropped. It will be up to Judge Sullivan to determine what he will or won’t do. If you recall, Judge Sullivan has reviewed everything in this case and was publicly threatening to actually sentence Flynn for treason over a year ago. While this is clearly Barr trying to provide cover for the President to pardon Flynn if Judge Sullivan won’t play ball, it is up to Judge Sullivan now as to what he is going to do. And given his past behavior in this case, I cannot imagine he will be amused.
Roger Moore
@Emerald:
I don’t know about that, but I think a lot of their behavior shows they’re not at all confident about November. It’s not just this kind of thing, or McConnell’s unseemly rush to confirm judges. It’s also that they’re starting to talk about the evil of deficits. That they are already going there without even trying to deficit spend their way to victory in November tells me they don’t like their chances.
Baud
@hueyplong: He might try, but there would be no way for him to test it legally. It would only become an issue of the Biden DOJ attempts to prosecute him.
Brachiator
@Emerald:
They don’t think that they need to escape from anything. They feel large and in charge.
NotMax
I know it’s become common to employ the four-letter word but will keep right on preaching for pleaded in preference to pled until well after have shuffled off this mortal coil. Teeth set on edge each and every time the shorter word is uttered by Maddow.
/lonely pedant
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I don’t get what the guy withdrawing from the case means. Is he protesting the dropping of the charges?
Baud
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
That’s the assumption.
Paul W.
Can we impeach Barr yet? Why the fuck did we leave him in place and not only did 3 Democrats vote for him but he’s been given a huge pass to just turn the AG office into a Stasi-esque outfit.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you for this clarification. But what happens if the Justice Department is not interested in prosecuting the case?
Antonius
I’m also pretty f*king sick of the “If we just keep very, very quiet, people might mistakenly elect us!” strategy. Biden could be holding a press conference every day from his basement. Hell Schiff, Pelosi, ANYBODY with ‘D’ after his/her/non-binary name could be delivering spittle-flecked outrage at every nearby webcam. Don’t these people realize that sometimes if you give ’em enough rope they’ll hang everyone else? Every three days when I can bear to look at the news I feel as if I’m losing my mind.
hitless
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): Yes – it’s a form of protest against dropping the charges.
I agree with Cheryl – the Democrats media game and messaging are disgraceful and their inability to articulate outrage at the outrageous is pathetic. They are failing this country. The tiny number of ex-Republicans running Lincoln Project ads have had more impact than the entire Democratic party and allied organizations. I simply don’t understand what the strategy is.
Mnemosyne
Cheryl, I do respect you, but I’ve heard statements from Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris, Adam Schiff, Brian Schatz, and more about all of these issues and more just in the past few days. That’s only from seeing them retweeted by the people I follow on Twitter, not from following those pols directly.
Perhaps you’re not hearing them because you’re not listening in the right places.
Chyron HR
@Antonius:
And what is The Lord Our God Bernie Sanders doing about it?
Immanentize
@Adam L Silverman: I was going to say this. You are right. The DOJ cannot drop charges once a guilty verdict is entered. The DOJ is just trying to put a bullseye on the back of a distinguished black man (the Judge).
JPL
This is the story that I saw earlier today about the purge in the Pentagon. If they don’t give their loyalty to trump, they’re gone. Pentagon purge
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
It’s too late. Not only has the case been prosecuted, but the defendant admitted his guilt and the two sides argued over sentencing. This is the result of a last minute move by Flynn to withdraw his guilty plea and the Barr DOJ’s willingness to accept that. But the judge doesn’t have to accept it. He’s well within his rights to say “no backsies” and pronounce sentence.
ETA: I’m sure Barr and Flynn worked this out through back-channels before he formally withdrew his guilty plea. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Hungry Joe
Lying to the FBI is okay if it’s in the service of either Trump or the GOP. It’s a Double Top Secret clause in the Constitution. You could look it up, but it’s Double Top Secret, so …
Immanentize
@Brachiator:
Then Flynn goes to jail. The case has been prosecuted. He pleaded guilty. The prosecution is over.
hueyplong
@Baud: In the fever swamps, they’ve got some goofy theories about preemptive pardons. What I’ve lost is confidence that fever swamp theories stay there.
@AdamLSilverman Agree that judge unlikely to be amused and might even schedule a hearing on the motion to withdraw in order to express his displeasure in the first instance. It would be fascinating to hear what the withdrawing prosecutor had to say.
JMG
When people, even people much smarter than me like Cheryl, say they are not hearing from Democrats, in my experience they are expressing frustration that the Democrats have no power to do anything about it. In this case, that’s not true, as Barr could be impeached, but I doubt a motion on an inquiry would get 30 votes. But my golly Biden and Warren had an op-ed last week promising that Trump administration criminals would be brought to justice. What more can they do? She’s a minority Senator and he’s a private citizen.
PS: I expect that Barr will have Biden and the Democratic VP nominee under criminal investigation for SOMETHING by Halloween. Making it clear what a hack he is on such a low stakes venture was dumb. Save it for the big stuff.
Cheryl Rofer
This is the integrity of the United States government we are seeing shredded.
We have six more months of this until the election, nine until inauguration.
I would like to hear one elected Democrat say this is a wrong thing and sound like they mean it. Like, look as upset as I feel right now.
This morning, I was thinking that maybe we can barely hold things together until the inauguration. Now I’m not so sure.
The elected Democrats are the ones who should be speaking out – Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff, heck, any of them. They are responsible for governing. And yep, if Pelosi comes out with a polite little tweet after examining three polls as to how the folks in that Ohio diner will take it, I’ll blast her for her pusillanimity.
Mnemosyne
I mean, Jesus, here’s Nancy Pelosi on national television just a couple of days ago. What is she supposed to do, call each American individually and play them this video?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=PVz1xfPQEio
Sorry, but I’m not falling into the why don’t the Democrats ever say anything about Trump and the Republicans? trap again. They can’t fucking spoon feed everything to you, people. Do some fucking work and turn on the TV or look at Twitter once a day.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
RE: But what happens if the Justice Department is not interested in prosecuting the case?
So, what is Barr’s play here?
And what happens next, appeal or pardon?
M31
@Chyron HR: well, his minions are letting their rage show, that’s for sure (at Joe Biden)
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl Rofer:
Ahem.
Cheryl Rofer
@Mnemosyne: Oh, okay, I’ll turn over a few rocks and see what I can find. //
I follow a lot of political people on Twitter, and I saw none of that . NONE
Immanentize
@Brachiator:
Then Flynn goes to jail. The case has been prosecuted. He pleaded guilty. The prosecution is over.
@Mnemosyne: THIS! They are all out there yelling. But they don’t own the press.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
It doesn’t help that the media doesn’t see fit to repeat them. This is an all too common event. Democrats condemn something Trump is doing, the media gives it barely a mention, and people blame the Democrats for not speaking up.
Hoodie
@Immanentize: Yeah, this is just trying to force the judge into the middle of a political battle, ultimately setting up for a pardon. Dems do not want to take the bait here, as it could be cast as Dems applying political pressure to the judge. This is supposed to be a legal decision based on evidence and procedure, not a political decision. Flynn has already been convicted. Wait until Trump is forced to pardon Flynn.
JPL
What does this do to members of the FBI? Christopher Wray must be questioning his decision to head a team of demoralized individuals.
Baud
@Roger Moore:
Agreed. It’s been going on for at least a decade. I remember seeing it when I was still at Kos. Someone would say “why doesn’t Obama say X after I had heard Obama say X.”
Poptartacus
Who gives a shit about Flynn. The malignant mango will just pardon him if the judge doesn’t play ball.
Cheryl Rofer
@JMG: I recognize that elected Democrats are limited by Mitch McConnell’s corrupt Senate. But they should be making more noise. I see that if you look very carefully in the right places, as Mnem does, you might see a tiny bit of indignation.
One problem is that Pelosi seems to be dithering as to how to hold House sessions in the middle of a pandemic. Some of us were shouting at her to look ahead to that before she left what – a month ago?
Four words in the history books –
The Democrats did nothing.
Mnemosyne
This is so fucking reminding me of the goddamned Obama years when people here would wail, Why isn’t Obama talking about [X]? and then we would show them video of Obama talking about [X] at a rally the day before, and then the wail would be But why are the Democrats so bad at letting people know that they’re talking about [X]?
I get that we’re all terrified. I’m fucking terrified and unemployed right now. We’re in the bust-out phase where Republicans are trying to grab as much power as they can on their way out the door, and that’s fucking terrifying. But can we PLEASE put the blame where it belongs and not blame the party that only holds one half of the legislative branch for everything the Republicans are doing to destroy our country?
Citizen_X
Actually…April 17, nearly three weeks ago.
There’s more recent outrages.
tokyokie
As I recall, Flynn pleaded guilty to reduced charges in order to end the investigation of his stupid son. My view is that if Flynn refuses to uphold his end of the deal, then the Biden administration’s AG needs to resume its investigation of junior, provided that the statute of limitations hasn’t expired.
JMG
@Cheryl Rofer: This happened less than two hours ago. If there has been no response by tomorrow morning, with follow-up on morning news shows, your point is taken. But give them time to formulate a unified response.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Hairshirts on the Mall might garner a few minutes’ TV coverage.
;)
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
IANAL, so take everything I say with a bucket of salt. My gut feeling is that the play is a desperate hope the judge will go along and let them drop the case. If that doesn’t work, they can criticize the judge as an evil Democrat appointee [sic] who has been biased against Flynn from the start. I don’t think they have much of a case on appeal- there’s no way the judge is abusing his discretion by refusing to accept a last minute plea withdrawal like this- but that doesn’t mean they won’t try with the hope that a bunch of right wing hack judges will rule their way. It also sets up an excuse for Trump to pardon him.
Lapassionara
All the news today is dreadful. This about Flynn, and the news about the new postmaster general. If Putin himself were U.S. President, I don’t think we would see any worse than what is happening now. My government wants me, and others like me, to die.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: Stop plagiarizing me.
ETA: All my comments are ©.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Ya know, you can yell as loud as you want, but it won’t be heard when the other guy has a megaphone. Trump has the megaphone, we don’t.
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl Rofer:
With all due respect — fuck you. When this shit is broadcast on NATIONAL TELEVISION, it’s not exactly hidden away unless you’re deliberately ignoring it.
With that, I’m going to step away before I say something I really regret. Good day.
Bex
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you for your clarification.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Agreed ,elected Ds have been talking about this. I follow Chris Murphy and Nancy Pelosi on Twitter and they have been talking about this stuff. The press ignores the Ds and leftier than thou bros and broettes attack Ds as do ex-Republicans like our venerable front pager here who IIRC was a fan of the elder Bush.
When in doubt blame Ds first seems to be the motto of American politics. Rs can be liars and murderers but Ds have to be like Caesar’s wife, perfect. Ds are somehow responsible for Barr’s corruption now.
JPL
@JMG: The president hinted at it last week. I’m not sure what they do though besides stand on the street corner and say that if the president wants to be a dictator, run for president in Brazil.
Jinchi
How are they “dropping the case”. Didn’t Flynn plead guilty? What case are they dropping?
LeftCoastYankee
They’ve figured out there is not going to be large visible protests during the pandemic, other than their expendable Toddler Corps presentations of Free-dumb Theater.
Without pictures of the anger, they can pretend it away.
Cheryl Rofer
It’s partly a media problem, apparently, although I am puzzled that the political people I follow on Twitter haven’t pointed up all those Democratic statements. Maybe something more than a polite statement is needed to get attention? Maybe get some demonstrations going at statehouses? Twitter campaigns? Beat down reporters’ doors?
I’m not blaming the Democrats. I’d just like to hear someone cut through the crap and say, loud and clear, over and over and over and over again, THIS IS WRONG AND THESE PEOPLE MUST BE REMOVED
Immanentize
@NotMax: I’m an Ash Pit kinda guy, myself.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer:
Mnemosyne
@Citizen_X:
Here she is two hours ago. Is that recent enough for you?
cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/pelosi-snap-benefits-food-stamps-covid-relief/index.html
Again, you fucking assholes want to be spoon-fed every fucking morsel and still insist it’s not good enough.
I said good day!
Elizabelle
The Trump Barr administration just did something incredibly corrupt.
I know! Let’s slam the Democrats. Blame them!
We’re not talking about coronavirus as much today, eh? And gut punch, too, to anyone who believes in ethics in government and rule of (good) law. Mission accomplished.
Cheryl Rofer
@JMG: I agree it’s soon for the Flynn situation. But that’s not the only thing that’s happened in the past week.
ETA: I promise to apologize if anything is said about this that gets into my Twitter stream.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@schrodingers_cat:
What does that have to do with anything? John Cole was a Republican a Republican at one point too
Immanentize
Only Democrats have any agency. I read that here, I think.
Waldo
I don’t think is so much about saving Flynn as it is about sending the message that anything done on Trump’s behalf — evenly blatantly illegal stuff — is A-OK with the DOJ. A chilling thought as the rat-f*ckers ramp up their activities.
trollhattan
@Mnemosyne:
Wait, isn’t the “Fuck you” thread two below?
Thunder Thursday.
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Good. Now let’s see Lieu and others repeat that until it gets a lot more exposure.
Cheryl Rofer
@Elizabelle: I’d love to see the Democrats talking about Trump’s screwups on coronavirus. It would be a great strategy for them.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
Good day? It’s too damned hot.
cain
I guess these 3 democrats who voted for him should probably be primaried. Clearly showing very poor judgement and put our nation in danger. Probably safe this round, but there should be challengers in the works. Most likely red state blue dogs.
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Brook Baldwin on CNN is all over that part. They should offer to talk to her.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: You apparently missed my comment about yelling vs. a megaphone.
cain
@Brachiator:
What is there to prosecute? The case is over, a verdict was made. We are in the sentencing stage.
m.glafmer
Not me.
The Moar You Know
Not being covered by the media.
Which is just the way the media wants it. Do you think they don’t want another four years of Trump? He’s made them billions.
NotMax
@Cheryl Rofer
Important bills (not sarcasm) are being put together in the meantime. Once the final I’s have been dotted and the T’s crossed and the bills are set to launch she’ll call back into session. I can’t fault her for exercising due caution regarding members and staff unable to drive there from their home states on the same day, for taking the time to allow for other means of transit to install or activate remedial measures.
pamelabrown53
@Cheryl Rofer:
Gotta say, Cheryl, I can’t recall you ever sounding so unmeasured. The anger and frustration you’re experiencing must be off the charts.
Have you contacted, i.e., tweeted the dem. leaders from whom you expect some push back? If you were Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, etc., what would they be saying?
zhena gogolia
@Mnemosyne:
Right.
cain
Hmm.. if a connected person like Cheryl is not seeing it, what chance does a person sitting at home does or are we the ones living in a bubble?
Let me ask you this – as a media strategy – why does not the DNC or others take all these statements, make a short video and then promote it using twitter promote ad stuff – it’s not that much of a work. Heck, I get more democratic messaging from “Now This” then from retweets.
Antonius
@Citizen_X: Seriously. I’m pretty sure April 17th was 7 years ago by now.
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: Yep that’s right only Ds have agency. Rs are in no way responsible for the havoc they wreak.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I did
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Cheryl Rofer
@pamelabrown53: I have tweeted stuff at them indeed, including a similar expression of frustration from others this morning.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Cheryl Rofer
@zhena gogolia: Good. Now let’s see him repeat that and do what is needed to get media attention.
ETA: Keep it coming!
Mart
@Mnemosyne: Attack the media, not Ms. Rofer. Sure MSNBC is a national broadcast, but virtually nobody watches it other than hyper-political Dems. I listen to liberal satellite radio shows, but again nobody listens, and their national news feed is almost always spouting Trump views without context. And who the hell pays attention to Dems on Twitter? The Dems need to punch through the right wing mainstream media stranglehold, but they will never let that happen.
cain
We dont have our own outrage machine like the right does – bots that amplify messaging, force the media to pay attention etc. I wondering why not? Why don’t we have our own bot farm?
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Like what, take off all his clothes and set himself on fire? The media doesn’t cover Democrats. Tara Reade has to be interviewed again.
Bill
Supreme Court is letting the Bridgegate officials off the hook like they did with Gov. McDonnell. Why prosecute anyone?
RobertB
@Immanentize: I saw it over at LGM. “Murc’s Law” over there.
schrodingers_cat
@Adam L Silverman: That’s what Uncle Blazer said too. BTW what do you think of that handle?
Nicole
@Cheryl Rofer:
Seeing as how several other commenters (and I, for that matter) have been seeing plenty of pushback from Dems on Twitter, maybe the problem is your sources.
I mean, my father-in-law watches and listens to news all day and I guarantee you, he’s not hearing word one from the Democratic perspective about any of this. Because of his sources.
Antonius
@Mnemosyne: So the solution is Americans have to become online detectives of outrage from the party in opposition?
The group on this site represents some of the most tuned-in political people around and they’re having trouble finding evidence of outrage within their own (I think) party.
How is “tell people to work harder at being properly informed” a realistic strategy? Especially now? The notion that people whose only job is to try to win elections and then govern have to be hunted down for comment just baffles me.
The reason no one criticizes R’s for everything that’s their fault on this thread is that the subject is steering the media to the story, and the Republicans are good at that. In strong contrast to another party I could name.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Would certainly not be displeased with Swalwell as a v.p. choice, should he be amenable to the whole sex change thing.
He’s always struck me as what in some quarters is described as ‘wicked smart.’
;)
Shalimar
Honestly, the fact that Flynn was only charged with lying to the FBI despite basically being in the pocket of 2 foreign governments while he was the national security advisor already said a lot about Mueller’s priorities and integrity.
Butter Emails
@Cheryl Rofer:
They will. It’s not going to get much coverage.
They have. It doesn’t get that much coverage. I mean for fucks sake, we had millions of women marching and the coverage received was less than has been received by a few thousand asshats who want to catch Covid.
The reason you’re not seeing Democratic politicians spitting venom on TV is basically the same reason I haven’t seen you spitting venom on TV. Networks and cable news don’t book Democrats to spew venom on TV. Instead they have to tweet and get posted on top 10,000 political blogs.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
I follow the too.. but something about twitter’s algorithm I don’t usually see them. Heck, I miss a lot of tweets from close friends on twitter too. (all tech stuff) I feel like I’m being bubblefied.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@zhena gogolia: Yup.
p.a.
trump calling the feds (many departments) trying to bring his corruption and treason to light ‘trash’ and ‘bums’ is not going to be forgiven or forgotten. I imagine Barr’s fat ass sitting on a powderkeg. Leaks or explosion, and timing t.b.d. Tick tock motherfuckers…
rp
Is this just a fig leaf to cover for a pardon? Sullivan refuses to dismiss, so Trump pardons Flynn and says “I couldn’t let him go to jail after the DOJ changed its mind and dropped the case.”
zhena gogolia
@rp:
That appears to be Adam’s reasoning above.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
I love him.
Immanentize
@RobertB: I know. I was being kinda snarky.
Imagined Headline:
CHILD ABUSER ASSAULTS HUNDREDS OF PRE-TEEN GIRLS.
Response — Why aren’t other children doing more to stop the abuse?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Everything is the Ds fault, doncha know.
rikyrah
ALLLLLLLLLLLL the muthaphuckas from The Village who stood up for Barr….
They need to be called on their obvious bad sense of judgement.
Gravenstone
@Brachiator: Barr must have explained that he’d already done the guided pardons thing to death under Bush I. But damn if he didn’t have some nifty ideas on how to get Flynn (and others?!?) off the hook that wouldn’t require another series of pardons.
cain
@rp:
But the guy is definitely guilty..
Barr is going to interfere in our election.. you can bet on it. The man has no scruples – the Republicans are silent because it is the only way they are going to hold on to power.
Imagine if Republicans stay in power even after over 400k americans are dead? It will blow my mind. I’ll probably think of leaving the country if that happened because in another 4 years after I’m not sure what things will look like then.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Antonius:
We are? I’ve just seen a few commenters(including myself) linking to tweets from elected Democrats.
Cheryl Rofer
@Nicole: I do not watch tv, so yes, I don’t see MSNBC. I follow a wide range of general-interest people, former Obama staffers, general Democratic operatives, and a wide range of science and national security related people on Twitter. Who am I missing?
pamelabrown53
@Lapassionara:
The news everyday is dreadful. Plus, we don’t need Putin when we have Putin’s Puppet.
I think that tRump and his congressional sycophants are fearful they may actually lose.This makes them extremely dangerous.
Sometimes, I think we’re one step away from dissenters falling out windows at an alarming rate.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Butter Emails: But if you want to talk about email management policy, the media is up for that.
trollhattan
@zhena gogolia:
You’re not wrong. She has recorded an interview with Megyn Kelly. Ugh.
hueyplong
What has happened is that Trump and Barr have upped the ante on the November election. They’re making it perfectly clear how accountable they’ll consider themselves in a second term and they don’t care who notices.
Baud
I’m confident Butter Emails is up for talking about that.
patrick II
You heard this from Cheney and now Barr — “Democrats are trying to criminalize politics” — partly because it is an argument that works but also because of the “righteousness” of their cause they believe it to be true. The fact is the reverse, they are politicizing criminality. Politics is what you do before a law is passed, criminal enforcement is what you do after. They don’t look at it that way — the law is just a temporary political setback to the natural political order.
rp
@cain: Of course. I’m not defending Barr in any way, shape, or form. He’s pure scum.
NotMax
@a href=”https://balloon-juice.com/2020/05/07/justice-department-drops-charges-against-michael-flynn/#comment-7699023″>Immanentize
“We prefer to be called vertically impaired pre-adults.”
– Yakko Warner
:)
BTW, did a quick look-see at newegg.com and they appear to have webcams in stock, although prices appear to be higher than before times.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Bill: My lawyer husband says it’s because the federal statues used for the charges don’t fit the crime. Fucking up peoples’ commutes for political payback isn’t a federal fraud charge. Now if the mayor filed a tort for extra funds expended for Bridgegate, or if a commuter filed for recompense cause he/she lost their job for being late, then you’re talking legally. And these bozos having to pay for more lawyers and paying a big fine is okay with me. We just need someone to fund the tort.
Butter Emails
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
*Does not apply to emails of Republicans. See George W. Bush Administration and Donald J. Trump Administration.
raven
Lotta russians showing up in this thread.
Baud
We haven’t mentioned the hack deficit in a while, but that’s part of what’s going on here. The GOP has a bunch of middling middle managers and junior VPs who actually do the grunt work of spreading their spin. Our media people tend to take on the roles of independent observers and creative thinkers. It costs us.
James E Powell
@hitless:
I agree with you and Cheryl. And it has been this way for years. I put it down the constant desire of Democrats – nationally anyway – to recapture some of the white suburbanites that they lost to Reagan. It’s why we don’t call out the racist party for being racist, the pro-pollution party for being pro-pollution, the anti-worker party for being anti-worker, the only for the rich party for being only for the rich, and so on.
Democrats also do not defend their own against the VRWC. They didn’t defend Gore, Kerry, Obama, or Clinton when it mattered and they are not defending Biden now.
Right now Tara Reade has hired attorneys. Those attorneys will be the constant source of new allegations against Biden. Those attorneys will be funded by fanatical right wing billionaires. They will produce a steady flow of leaks and rumors to the NYT who will feature all of them on the front page.
There is an explanation for this and it is probably a very good one. No doubt it shows that they are smart & right and I am stupid & wrong. I’ve just never heard it.
@Mnemosyne:
No doubt this is a factor in my personal experience, but the non-engaged portion of the electorate isn’t hearing it either. To hear from Ds, you have to seek them out.
WaterGirl
We’re all on edge. Says the person who has been in a bad mood for going on 6 days now.
I can’t decide whether democracy is crumbling or whether it has totally blown up. All of these actions by Trump and his minions are beyond brazen, and it’s pushing me over the edge.
Venting is good. Necessary, even. We’re still on the same side.
NotMax
@raven
Трахни лбж.
;)
Nicole
@Cheryl Rofer: I don’t watch news on TV at all and I can’t stand MSNBC. I can’t stand most news commentary shows, actually. Unless they’re presented in the guise of comedy.
You weren’t giving specifics of people you’re following, so it’s difficult to say. My father-in-law insisted to me that, in addition to his daily diet of Fox and Limbaugh, he also goes to “centrist” sources for balance, but then when you question him it turns out his “centrist” source is The Drudge Report. ;)
Out of curiousity, I just opened Twitter and my very top tweet is about the Flynn pardon. “History tells us a lot of political journalists are shocked and amazed and bewildered and in a state of disbelief over that Flynn thing.”
And three tweets down another tweet about it: “Corruption, plan and simple. This is what this #Republican administration will continue to deliver in spades.” With a link to an npr article.
The thing with a lot of “established” voices is that they’re part of the Establishment, and the Establishment has a vested interest in the apple cart not being upset. It’s entirely possible that many of the accounts you follow, in the end, aren’t really all that troubled by this. The sheer fact that anyone takes seriously anything the NYTimes says about politics amazes me; they’ve been on my shit list since 2003, when I watched them carry water for Bush’s Iraq adventure.
The thing is, the media wants good entertainment, and the people who provide good entertainment re: news tend to be train wrecks. Which is why the GOP gets so many of them. We had a screaming, get-the-attention-of-the-news-media guy last year or the year before on the liberal side- Michael Avenatti. How’d he turn out for us?
Anya
Adam Schiff has been out there every day since the senate REPUBLICANS acquitted Trump highlighting every fucking treasonous and criminal thing the Trump admin does. There are also other democrats that I am aware of like Chris Murphy, Brian Schatz, not to mention Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren who talk about these things. I think we are doing them disservice if we say they are silent about this. Maybe a valid question is how do we amplify their voice or get the media to notice but I am afraid, Trump’s criminal administration doesn’t care about any of that. It’s all noise to them. After the impeachment, what Adam Schiff warned the republicans about is happening. Trump is getting bolder with his crimes so the Dems need a sharper message. We need to work hard to win the senate and to tie Trump’s criminality to the republicans running. Let Susan Collins, that dumb fuck from Colorado and the others answer every day about these crimes. Let so them defend it.
JPL
Ahmaud Arbery was murdered in February and all of a sudden repubs are now upset about it. My god.. the same DA was too busy charging blacks with voting while black laws. Where were they then?
btw The voting rights laws were charged when Kemp was Secretary of State.
Baud
@Baud:
I also think progressive minded people tend to be more visceral, which requires constant stimulus.
Calouste
@Cheryl Rofer: Uhm, actual Democratic politicians? Those are the people you are missing. Just to state the obvious.
Baud
@James E Powell:
They are as frustrating as the purity left, but they were also key to winning the House in 2018.
germy
@zhena gogolia:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Anya:
There was Air America; yeah, that didn’t work.
raven
Kamala is all up in their asses right now.
JPL
@germy: you think?
Baud
@germy:
Or or and?
Anya
@cain: We do have our own outrage machine but it’s usually directed at Democrats.
germy
Timurid
@Cheryl Rofer: They’re not acting like people who think they’ll ever have to worry about elections again. They’re going to openly attack the November election and/or its results. The Russians can stand down now. They won’t be needed.
The refrain up to now is ‘they won’t let him cancel an election… they won’t let him stay in office after 1/20 if he loses.’ But ‘they’ are already letting him kill tens of thousands of Americans, so it’s clear now that they’ll let him do anything at all.
Anya
@germy: This is so fucking dumb. Why go there. Someone should tell that attorney they’re not helping. Just STFU
Another Scott
Democrats aren’t ignoring this, Cheryl.
E.g.
Justice moves slowly.
We have to give our team enough support to get the job done. Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
Off topic, but I keep going back to this:
Cheryl Rofer
@Nicole: You seem to be assuming that my major news intake is from Fox and the major news outlets. I follow none of them. I do follow experts in various fields, many of whom also are political, as I am.
I’m chuckling at the naivete you ascribe to me.
Baud
@germy:
People were upset that the grandmother was taking care of the kids in the White House. No imagination required.
ET
I assume many Democrats will yell. But we all know that Republicans on the Hill will go along with the president. Mitch McConnell and the Senate won’t do shit. Congress is neutered when one entire house ceases to do its duty and even stand up for its own power and future.
The framers thought self-interest if not duty, would be important to keeping mal actors at bay. They didn’t account for the modern Republican politician. They didn’t consider the fact that very important members of an administration (including in this admn the President) have no ethics and really aren’t people who think of the greater good AND they would be supported, abetted, and even encouraged by members of Congress.
NotMax
@germy
Ain’t much of a valet if he lets you leave your room wearing a tan suit.
//
pamelabrown53
@Cheryl Rofer:
…and I agree that there’s too much to address when we’re in the middle of a pandemic where we’re all just trying to stay alive and our *president* and administration are doing their level best to foment protests against the majority of us that are trying to navigate an opaque disease with deadly consequences.
Here’s what leaves me incredulous: nothing, but NOTHING will stop tRump and his minions from piling so many democracy breaking norms and unprecedented corruption on a daily basis. The upshot, is no one an absorb, let alone track the devastation. We are slowly, so incrementally being boiled to death.
germy
@pamelabrown53:
More than a few Black Lives Matter activists have turned up dead.
germy
@NotMax: And Trump’s valet: “Your suit fits perfectly, sir!”
West of the Rockies
Totally OT, but does anyone go to ESPN online? Everyday they have 142 articles about Michael Jordan. Dude retired decades ago. Seriously, For days now it’s been wall to wall Jordan, 9 or 10 articles every damn day. None on Magic or Larry, Kareem, Secretariat, Ali, Navratilova… Just Jordan.
Baud
@West of the Rockies: There’s a popular new documentary out about Jordan, and no live sports.
Cheryl Rofer
@Calouste: I mostly don’t follow Democratic politicians on Twitter because their feeds are so formulaic.
The issue isn’t whether those politicians tweet out one little tweet. It’s getting heard. It’s repeating and repeating and repeating. It’s – yes – tearing your clothes off and setting yourself on fire if that’s what’s necessary.
The country is going down. Seems like strong measures might be necessary, but maybe that’s just me.
cckids
Word. Also save some fury for the press, who don’t give any Democrat the time of day because they aren’t rage-tweeting toddlers “making news” by flinging shit.
cain
Shit, the Never Trumpers do a better job than our Democratic establishment. It’s like they are afraid of being partisan.
Anya
One thing I think that validates Cheryl’s anger/disappointment is how little the dems talked about Trump’s corruption during the debates. I have always wished they just ignored the stupid moderators’ dumb questions and pivoted to how corrupt Trump and his admin is and what their plan of fixing the corruption. They should’ve brought up how he’s poisoning our water and how he’s bankrupting us and taking away our healthcare, diminishing America’s image and role in the world and destroying our institutions and all that instead of the stupid food fight we had to endure.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer:
They. Impeached. Him. Unanimous vote of the House plus one right-wing Independent. They even got one Republican Senator to go along. And the American electorate collectively shrugged and moved on. Your complaints are not with elected Democrats. It’s with a dull and dulled American electorate. The ones I call the lumpenmittel.
germy
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Liberals always have weird subscription-only satellite stations. Meanwhile, I can drive a rusty 1998 Nissan and tune up and down the dial for a variety of syndicated and local rightwing talk radio shows.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I thought there were two no votes, one of which left the party.
NotMax
@germy
“I see Sir dresses to the left.”
“YOU’RE FIRED! I do NOTHING to the left.”
Chyron HR
@Cheryl Rofer:
No shit, Sherlock!
Cheryl Rofer
@Another Scott: Unfortunately, the destroyers of the country are moving pretty fast right now.
I agree there is a case for measured thoughtfulness. That’s what I use for most of my posts. But there’s also a case for pulling a fire alarm.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud:
A front-pager here once preemptively told me not to @ them with the details of all times Obama said X, in this case warning about Russian interference, as I recall, cause he didn’t say it the right way, and the proof was nobody responded to what he said.
Nicole
The other thing is- being good on TV and being good at governing are two very different skill sets. The GOP make for GREAT TV and they are crap at governing, as the current total of a couple thousand dead Americans every day demonstrate. Democrats are good at governing, but good governing is boring and not entertaining to watch.
I mean- look at the ones we’ve had that get (or got) plenty of TV- Bernie Sanders (YES I KNOW HE’S NOT A DEMOCRAT), Anthony Weiner, Al Franken. Bernie’s an ineffectual politician, Weiner… well… (and apparently lazy in Congress), and Franken, while a perfectly fine Senator, had the benefit of decades of TV experience as a comedy writer and actor to make him camera savvy, but even there, the entertainment culture permits behavior that is not allowed other places and that came back to bite him. I read a comment once by someone who said, had they been photographed pretending to touch the boobs of a passed-out coworker at the office holiday party, that they’d have been fired before they got back to the office Monday morning (come to think of it, I once had a coworker who was fired for a similar kind of jokey prank- nothing malicious was intended; he pretended to take a photo of a coworker on the toilet at an after-hours social thing. He was drunk, it was meant as a joke, but he got fired for it less than 12 hours later). Each of them, in their own way, train wreck. But good on TV!
Nancy Pelosi, NOT train wreck. Bad on TV.
It fucking sucks that the media prefers good TV to good governance, but there it is. I don’t think it’s fair for us to blame the Democrats for being good at the boring job of governing. They don’t do raging outrage because people who do ragey outrage don’t do good governing
Billy Wilder said it perfectly, about why he kept working with Marilyn Monroe, with all her lateness to set, etc.: “My Aunt Minnie would always be punctual and never hold up production, but who would pay to see my Aunt Minnie?”
Jeffro
@Baud: see also, “The Republican Noise Machine”. It’s what they do with all those Reagan, W, and trumpov tax cuts – pay people to lie to Americans and keep their minority-support policies going.
Only heavily progressive taxation will take away the funds that the GOP uses to keep the puke funnel going 24/7. It HAS to be the first priority of the Biden Administration, because everything else depends on it.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
If possible, I wish you’d provide a link to whatever Kamala is saying (transcript or thread or audio or whatever). I’m arguing with someone on a non-BJ site about her this very minute and would like to know what Kamala is saying. My interlocutor says she is “whining.” I don’t believe that.
cain
@Nicole: This is why I don’t watch 24 hour news. They are essentially info-tainment. News has become entertainment thanks to the kind of horse race/sports style reporting. Everything is about getting your eyeballs staring at the screen so they can put ads in front of you.
How much money do you think these media companies make during elections. Where does the money from all those ad buys go? I’ve never figured that out.
Personally, I would tie being a news company to allowing candidates a certain amount of free coverage.
germy
@SiubhanDuinne:
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
That’s a standard trope whenever a Dem speaks about something that is wrong or unjust.
The Moar You Know
@raven: I don’t know if they’re Russian or what the fuck, but yeah, I noticed that too. BUNCH of nyms I’ve never seen before, and you and I have been here since about 06 or so.
They’re on message, though. “You said Democrats suck? Yeah, they sure do! They don’t do shit! You should probably just stay at home in November.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer:
You can’t push a chain.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: you’re right, Jeff Van Drew left the party, and IIRC Colin Peterson of MN. Still- “the Democrats did nothing….”
THEY MOTHERFUCKING IMPEACHED HIM
Cheryl Rofer
A lot of comments about unfair treatment by media and voters not paying attention. That’s all true, and perhaps in some elysium that we eventually get voted into in the future we can find a fair media and educated voters.
But this is what we have. We have to save the country, even with a lot stacked against us.
cain
@Anya: Get a bot farm going. Why not? Nobody has told me whats wrong with having one? They got fake twitter accounts all over the place helping amplify.. we can do the same. There isn’t anything morally wrong with it.
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: So sit back and do nothing?
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: You might want to read Dave Zirin’s most recent column about Michael Jordan.
Shalimar
@germy: 6 personal valets. The one who got the virus is one of six It takes 6 people to get Trump dressed.
Hobbes83
@Mnemosyne: This. People forget the “summer of empty podiums.” The media knows what they are doing; they want a horse race. They’re going to manipulate the coverage to do so, regardless of the platform the democrats use to promote their message so they gain juke their ratings. I still don’t know why more people on the left have not seen this time and time again. Democrats say things about various situations all the time but they either don’t get the attention it deserves, or it gets ignored wholesale.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: Air America was on terrestrial radio.
trollhattan
@germy:
Reason number the infinitieth that allowing broadcast media consolidation was a horrible concept and worse execution.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer: can’t save voters from themselves, and the details of the overlapping trump/Flynn/Manafort cases were too complicated for a public benumbed by the Bachelor, Dancing With The Stars and The Apprentice before the economy went to hell and 3,000 people were dying a day.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: It’s not just you, Cheryl. We’re all responding to it in different ways. For me, it’s different ways on different days.
The days I appear the most calm are often the worst because what’s going on is so alarming and so out of control that I don’t have the slightest idea what we can do about it, so I get very quiet.
Before this is over with, we may all look like people from hostage videos.
cain
@Anya:
Those are the purity left. I feel like we need former Republicans to run it (some of us were republicans at one point – I’m not talking about never Trumpers) It is just a crying shame that we can’t figure out how to amplify our messaging.
Instead we have shit like NYT going out talking to diner people – no matter what’s going on, we all gotta listen to what the racist white people have to say.
hueyplong
@SiubhanDuinne: Either she’s “whining” or “She’s a cop.”
schrodingers_cat
From Adam Schiff’s Twitter feed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: I agree, that might’ve worked to move the needle, but a significant portion of Dem activists wanted to hear about other things. They wanted specific, topic-centered debates. And I can’t stand Rose Twitter and its various permutations and manifestations, but even I don’t hold limit the blame to them.
gvg
@Cheryl Rofer: How can you say that seriously? They are talking about it alot! Seriously how can you miss it. It’s been posted here.
David Fud
The part of this post complaining about Democrats sounds like the folks who were complaining that Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t impeach Trump. I know that was a lifetime of Trump tweets ago, but we all saw how that worked out. So, yeah, not joining the circle firing squad.
germy
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I was up and down the dial in those days. I never heard it
The only “progressive” stuff I heard was when my local college radio station would patch into the Pacifica network for Amy Goodman. And I didn’t much enjoy hearing that.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“I need something to vote for.”
NotMax
@cain
Trouble is, where do you draw the line? And who draws it? By what criteria, if an entity is a registered candidate?
Roque “Rocky” De La Fuente?
Vermin Supreme?
Limberbutt McCubbins?
Crawfish B. Crawfish?
.
(None of those names made up for purposes of this comment, BTW.)
Baud
@NotMax: You left out Baud!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@cain:
If Cole is any indication, we need to say ‘fuck’ a lot more often.
Yutsano
@NotMax:
A) his spouse would (probably) disagree
B) sex changes don’t work like that
C) to be shallow, he’s pretty damn hawt as a male
D) the spouse nixed this idea already. Especially since they just reproduced.
*note: some tongue firmly in cheek for at least part of this
Anya
Can someone explain to me how Trump keeps testing negative when he’s constantly in contact with someone who tests positive for COVID despite him not wearing PPE? I hate conspiracy theories but I am beginning to think the whole valet thing is a lie. They like the narrative that Trump is too strong for this virus.
Ugh! Now I hate myself
The Moar You Know
Pretty simple explanation, really. Twitter, Facebook, Nextdoor…all your social media outlets are crammed to the gills with right wingers and those guys have nothing better to do but flood the channels. If they were radio, you’d call it jamming, if it were old-school internet, you’d call it crapflood. You get the idea. They rule the discourse because nobody can get a dissenting word in edgewise.
Old media? The obsolete folks? CNN, Fox News, MSNBC? Where are those guys getting their stories and ideas from?
Social media. They don’t have a choice. Back in the days of old media, you’d have reporters working on one story for months. Today, if you’re not punching out your article a day, you’re done.
It’s the great circle of bullshit. And it’s taking out democratic societies everywhere. Hell, you can trace the rise of the dictatorships of Orban, Duterte and Balsonaro DIRECTLY to the percentage of Facebook users in the society. And I do think you’ll soon be able to lump America in with that crowd of shame, because we can’t and won’t control our media or ourselves.
People say the Second Amendment is the most dangerous to America. I respectfully disagree. It’s the First. How you fix that, well, fuck if I know.
germy
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer:
You need to start watching TV, I guess.
Adam L Silverman
@Brachiator: Was working on something else and have just seen this, so sorry for the delay. I don’t know. I suspect that if Judge Sullivan refuses to allow the withdrawal of charges and sentences Flynn, that the President will use this as justification for a pardon. Of course, if Flynn accepts a pardon, he has to acknowledge his guild and wrongdoing. Beyond that you’ll have to check with nat-sec legal twitter.
Anya
@cain: NYT is not our ally or even a neutral party. They are our enemy.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: Air America affiliates.
raven
@The Moar You Know: I was being snarky. . .
cain
@NotMax:
I don’t know… but I suspect bots are centrally controlled is my suspicion – and they have a algorithm. It follows particular people and retweets them to run up the retweet counts – whatever to trigger Twitter’s algorithm.
We could design a bot farm that does mass retweets of Democratic pols and boosters. It doesn’t have to be complex – the job of the bot farm is to hold influence over Twitter’s algorithm – the same way we find ways to boost search engines results.
ETA – and you can bet the media and others will question the morality – I would simply respond that the reality is that this is what the reality is and the game has changed and we have to change with it if we want to be heard. If you don’t like it then give us a fair chance at messaging.
MomSense
Fucking Barr. He’s doing it again.
Elizabelle
@germy: Gary Kasparov knows.
germy
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m in the Eastern Time Zone, I don’t get any of those stations.
But I can hear Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and MIke Savage to my heart’s content. Plus some local “talents” who hope someday to make it to the majors.
West of the Rockies
This whole thread seems to be about +4.
NotMax
@Baud
Time tested traditions merit upholding.
;)
@Yutsano
Hope you realize my own cheek was not tongue-free in constructing the comment.
;)
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
An unscientific ray of hope. In 2016, Reddit was Bernie central and Trump central. This year, it was Bernie central until Super Tuesday. Since then, the Berners have been successful at getting traction with their dementia and Tara Reade memes, and getting more pushback. Sometimes, some of the threads even read like BJ.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just looked at a couple of the pages of MSNBC shows. Elected (and former office-holding) Dems talking about trump and Corona in the last week: Tammy Duckworth, Chris Murphy, Max Rose, Beto O’Rourke, Katie Porter, Stacey Abrams, Jamie Raskin, Adam Schiff, Angus King (Indy), Sean Maloney, Nancy Pelosi….
not a finite list. I seem to recall Chuck Schumer getting a solid half hour on Maddow late last week, I could be wron
ETA: I guess Biden or Pelosi or Obama needs to go on The Masked Singer to reach people.
Baud
@germy: GOP voters seek out and consume right-wing propaganda. Our voters don’t. The media market, as skewed by billionaire dollars, reflects that.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman:
Does he have to be in the Guildhall to do that or will a normal courtroom work?
mary s
@Cheryl Rofer:
I think your anger is misplaced. Or, rather, it’s spilling out all over the place. Understandably! We do not have a functioning government right now. This is not the Democrats’ fault.
Villago Delenda Est
Flynn’s worthless traitor ass should be court-martialed.
oldgold
Absolutely! After 6 months of Mueller’s investigation, I repeatedly argued here that he was not doing his job. I was too kind.
Emma from FL
@James E Powell: blame the damn press. Until we kick them around the way they deserve to be kicked — until they’re as afraid of liberals as they are of conservatives, we will have to investigate the media people as well as the news makers.
NotMax
@cain
My fault for not being more clear the response was to your suggestion for free airtime.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: Well, you wouldn’t hear Air America now since they went BK 10 years ago.
Fair Economist
@West of the Rockies:
Cynical explanation: he has a big shoe line, and Nike is paying for this.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Anya: I may get in trouble for using a copyrighted phrase…The New York Times is garbage.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Emerald: Barr is behaving as he always, Barr believes the president is above the law.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Last time I was in a rental care, there was a “liberal” channel on satellite radio. I’ve never gotten into talk radio of any kind (or podcasts, for that matter) so I couldn’t tell you the current status of things.
cain
Dont know either.. I put out an idea some time back about labeling 24 hour news as “entertainment” and that they don’t get to call themselves a news company without following guidelines similar to the fairness doctrine. If you are entertainment (and remember Fox does not say they are a news company, they are entertainment, that is their defense) make them own it – they have to declare through a chyron – or whatever.
You can put federal rules on who servants of the federal govt can talk to based on that labeling. You get more access if you are a news company.
Finally destroy these media conglomerates. We have the power of regulation through labeling, we don’t have to touch their speech.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I grant you fair use.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT Nichole Wallace asks KH if she’s being vetted for Veep, and KH seems genuinely irritated by the question.
Dear god, Joe, pick her
cain
Yes, that is true. I mean they were pro-Hitler until we declared war. The paper has always had a fascist bent.
hueyplong
In a civil case, a judge can just sit on a motion without ruling until, say, Jan 21, 2021.
IANA Criminal L, so asking those who are, How long could the judge simply sit on the motion to dismiss the Flynn charges without ruling? If Flynn is free on bond instead of incarcerated, would that lengthen the time a judge could sit on the motion?
Thinking of a way to keep the case alive while avoiding appellate review (in which I have little faith). The the Coward In Chief apparently doesn’t want to go with a pardon absent a “rogue judge” to attack. Delaying a ruling might keep the pardon on ice.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What did she say? She had to have known she’d be asked about it?
cain
@Baud:
Oh man, yeah.. /r/politics was bernie central. But yeah, it isn’t so much Bernie land there much. Those people hate Trump with the light and heat of a thousand suns and anybody talking about voting for someone else will be repudiated hard.
West of the Rockies
@WaterGirl:
Thanks. I just read it. Jordan definitely exhibits some toxic masculinity.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: Sirius has, I think still has, a Progressive channel. I used to tune in to Stephanie Miller from time to time, mostly to hear Charlie Pierce, but the tropes of talk radio–fart jokes, in-jokes, funny songs (maybe the first time)– just grate on me. I think the willfully (it seems to me) and irritatingly boring Thom Hartmann is on there. And uber-Bernie Bro Jon Fugelsang (who is often smart and often funny but… often not) is on there now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: she gave the standard non-issue, but she was talking about child hunger and dire straits people are facing, and she seemed genuinely irritated by the shift in topic. Maybe I’m a sap, but I bought it.
cain
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Maybe I’m a symbol of the problem, I usually have a place I go for news and that is twitter and BJ. I don’t really go anywhere else. This is good and bad. Good as I tend to get good national news coverage, horrible for local news and that’s kind of where are fight should be as well according to my Democratic party friend. She is very involved with the local party.
mrmoshpotato
May I suggest some Driftglass and the Professional Left podcast?
SiubhanDuinne
@germy: Thanks. I’ll look for a YouTube or transcript of that segment.
James E Powell
@WaterGirl:
I get that way too. Then at leasts once a week I come on here, rant a bit, take the heat for it, then return to slow boil mode.
randy khan
@West of the Rockies:
It’s almost certainly because they’ve been running the documentary on the last season the Bulls’ dynasty team was all together, and it’s easily the highest-rated thing they’ve got going.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: Yep. Disappointing to see it.
WereBear
Yes. This.
Duane
@cckids: Trumper has moved the meaning of ‘Bully Pulpit’ to its literal sense. The media could stop that but ha ha.
James E Powell
@Emma from FL:
I believe that the press/media are not afraid of liberals because their owners are not liberals. The reporters know what they editors want and the editors know what the publishers want. It doesn’t need to be stated explicitly.
I do not know what can be done. It is infuriating.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Andrew Cuomo has been on TV, carried live by MSNBC and I’d bet CNN, almost every day for most of the last month. Gavin Newsome, Lori Lightfoot, Queen of the Stay Home memes. Phil Murphy. Ned Lamont.
As I said about “Obama should have told us! Louder! More often! He should’ve dropped an F bomb!’ Everybody who cares, knows; and a lot of people who know don’t care.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Senator Harris was interviewed within 1/2 an hour of the news breaking on MSNBC and denounced this and Barr in no uncertain terms, without any hesitancy live on TV. I watched and listened to her do it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WereBear: If you’re “hearing nothing from elected Democrats”, it’s because you’re not listening. Unfortunately, you’re not alone.
James E Powell
@West of the Rockies:
They are running a documentary that is the talk of the whole world of sports talk because there are no sports to talk about.*
* – My friends and I had a zoom cocktail party to watch opening day of Korean baseball. Yes, we are that desperate.
hueyplong
Kyle Cheney
@kyledcheney
· 6m
BREAKING: The House Intel Committee is preparing to release long-delayed transcripts from its Russia investigation.
Any connection to today’s DOJ action?
randy khan
@Roger Moore:
@Brachiator:
A couple of thoughts:
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: I have no idea who that is.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@cain: as political junkies, we are a bad sample of what information people want and how they get it
i don’t know what the solution is, but the idea that Democrats are just sitting around saying nothing is ludicrous
the water is there, damn horses won’t drink
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: That’s good. There are plenty of examples on this thread of elected Democrats saying the right things. Now we have to translate that into action – moving voters, and I’d be happy for some highly obstructive action in the House that ties the administration in knots. Hearings on impeaching Barr might be a good start.
I am a bit baffled that more of these don’t make their way into my Fox-only Twitter feed. (Yes, I’m being sarcastic.) The people that I follow would magnify these words if they thought they were more than pro-forma. As I said upthread, yes, I will criticize further for not being strong enough.
I don’t know. I guess we just wring our hands and hope we make it through the next nine months. I’d like to be able to discuss how the Dems might make more of a splash, but we have an overwhelming consensus here that they’re doing everything right, and it’s up to the media and the rest of us to make it work.
MisterForkbeard
@cain: Good to know. 2016 (and later 2017) was so bad there that I’ve basically noped out of /r/politics forever. The few times I’ve dipped my toe back in I get infuriated within about 5 minutes and leave.
rikyrah
Thread
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Remember when Warren and Biden (an elected Dem and a Dem seeking to be elected) published an oped critiquing trump’s handling of relief funds and the lack of oversight, and promising to do retroactive oversight? That was four days ago. How many of your meatspace, non-political junkie acquaintance know that happened
ETA: as to what’s promoted by political people on twitter, including ex-Obama staffers, I genuinely don’t remember how many of the ones I follow retweeted that, not many as I recall. Most of them, including the O’Bros, retweeted Traister’s piece on how Tara Reade’s accusations taint all Democratic woman, including and especially his eventual running mate.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders was suing the state of New York to get back on the ballot in the primary he already lost, cause while Barr is continuing to hollow out the DOJ and Ruth Bader Ginsberg gets older and more fragile, his focus is on the wording of the Democratic Party platform.
hueyplong
Looks like Schiff just released House Russia investigation transcripts.
Not sure that’s being loud enough for everyone, but it’s definitely not nothing.
intelligence.house.gov/russiainvestigation/
MisterForkbeard
@Cheryl Rofer: I think we can be more aggressive about it. The problem is that Dems have been saying this stuff for YEARS: Trump is corrupt, his administration is corrupt and incompetent, etc. And it’s not news, the news doesn’t care and it doesn’t get spread.
Saying something really splashy or going after the media for not covering it correctly might be it. People here have talked about how we need to terrify the media the same way the Republicans do. And maybe that’s it – we need Democrats saying loud and angry things and decrying the media as dishonest assholes who don’t want to do their jobs. That gets media attention AND pushes them in the direction we want to go.
Other choices would be particularly strong statements or promises. Something like Biden saying “This is clearly corruption and when I become President we’ll investigate it – and we’ll put Barr in jail for obvious corruption, if any of the reports on his involvement are correct.” Thunder and threaten consequences, don’t stop at the investigation promise.
low-tech cyclist
THANK YOU for saying this.
The Dems ought to be publicly mad as hell about everything that’s going on, starting with the >75,000 dead Americans. I’m talking yelling, red-in-the-face, veins-popping-out-of-their-foreheads mad.
They should be mad that the Federal government is doing nothing about this crisis, except when it puts Ken-Doll Kushner in charge of getting PPE, or when it forces states to bid against each other for PPE and other medical resources, or when a state finally outbids the other states plus a few Federal agencies, it swoops in and steals the medical supplies, and disappears them to who knows where.
Or when Trump uses his access to PPE and so forth to extort the states, out in the open, on national TV. (Remember when Trump did this to Ukraine? That was impeachable, and this isn’t?)
They should be mad that there are profiteers on the winning side of these transactions where the PPE gets bid up to 15x its normal price. There ought to be at least a few Dems calling for them to swing by the neck from lampposts on Constitution Avenue, and let the Gray Lady get the vapors if it wants to, as it surely would.
They ought to be mad as hell that the GOP wants to bankrupt the states and the USPS.
They ought to be livid with the heat of a million supernovas about the way “essential workers” from grocery store clerks to nursing home aides to prison guards are treated like disposable parts instead of essential, or about the way Republican governors in a number of states are denying unemployment benefits to workers who are afraid they’ll die if they go back to work.
There should be no way to avoid their fury. Any time a Democrat shows up on TV, they should be barely able to contain themselves.
Look, I’ve been following politics since Goldwater ran for President. I know ‘mad as hell’ is by and large a Republican thing, but there’s a time for it, and that time is now. When the bad guys are as bad as they are, the good guys need to be genuinely pissed about everything the bad guys are doing.
Oh yeah: and if they’re too chickenshit to impeach Trump over 75,000 dead Americans, the least they should be doing is loudly calling for him to resign. He has had his chance to manage this crisis, and he’s decided he doesn’t want to bother. He should be impeached for sheer dereliction of duty which has led to all these deaths, and continues to lead to more. But like I said, if they’re too chickenshit to impeach him, then they should at least be largely unified in loudly and repeatedly calling for his resignation.
Here endeth the lesson.
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: With respect, if you want to see what elected Democratic party leaders are saying, you need to follow them. The popular press isn’t going to do it except with a bothsides slant.
My Rep, twitter.com/RepDonBeyer, is very good and speaks up loudly about what’s going on and what he’s working on to combat it. bluevirginia.us/ is a great source for Virginia politics news and coverage of national politics that affects VA. You should follow similar elected Democratic officials/sites in your state/region.
For the overall state of politics, I check to see what twitter.com/lolgop is covering.
There are many, many others, of course.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That was a very good thing to do. I don’t understand why it was in a lower-tier newspaper that blocks those of us with ad-blockers.
I’d like to hear more about it. A statement, perhaps, that liability for covid deaths will continue after the election. Or that any illegalities in the decision to drop the Flynn case will be investigated. The second might take a bit of time, so we still might see it in a timely way.
That op-ed was a great start to a through-line. “Lock them up!”
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: As I’ve written here repeatedly, the Democrats, as a political party, are bad at doing/performing politics. The younger ones are much better than the older ones. And the youngest are best. But overall, they’re bad at it. But part of the reason they’re bad at it is that they actually care about government, governance, policy, and strategy and that is just not something that most print journalists, broadcast or cable TV news producers and bookers, or “news” talk radio producers and bookers are interested in.
Cheryl Rofer
@Another Scott: I follow over 1000 accounts. I follow my senators and representative. But I’m doing enough that following all 47 Democratic senators would clog up my timeline too badly. So I rely on folks who follow politics more closely than I do to filter the important stuff from those senators into my timeline by retweeting them. I do the same with other fields that I’m not spending full time on.
For now, I’m adding epidemiological experts to my follows in a way I didn’t six months ago. And, if things ever calm down, I’ll drop them.
And if they only way I hear what the senators are saying is to follow them, then a lot of people aren’t hearing what they say.
Another Scott
@Anya: Um, just about every sentence in every answer from SP Warren in (at least the last half-a-dozen or so of) the debates included the word “corruption”.
Our elected people are paying attention.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard:
I think jail is a really bad campaign platform. If the Mueller investigation taught us anything, after the Rove/Libby investigation by Fitzgerald (remember Fitzmas and frogmarching?) before that, and the “Bridgegate” ruling today, and the McDonnell ruling of a few years back, and the Menendez dismissal a bit more recently, it’s that prosecutors, and judges, and ultimately juries, and after them appeals courts, look for clear violations of statutes, not evidence of gross moral turpitude and obvious partisan hackery, and bending but not quite breaking (because there was a controlling memo by this or that government office in the relevant cabinet department) the law. IANAL, just a political junkie.
More a general comment, cause I’m seeing more and more “People better go to jail for this!” and if we make that the standard for the Biden presidency, we’re probably going to be disappointed.
Biden can, IMHO, say things like, we are going to rebuild the wall between the White House and the Department of Justice, and the most important question I’ll be asking prospective Attorneys General (he’d probably say Attorney Generals) is: Do you promise that you’ll always follow the law, and never think about politics.”
Chris Johnson
@hueyplong: Aha!
And there I was thinking this was about smokescreen for Trump’s Postmaster General appointment, which is the real payload so the Flynn thing is just distraction.
Still true, but I’m not surprised if all this desperation is because something is dropping.
Remember, if all this shit is real and the government AND twitter AND the New York Times etc are all controlled out of Russia then we’ll be seeing exactly this: plus all the bot armies possible.
But the bottom line is still, they are trying to kill us, and they are most easily able to kill THEIR OWN PEOPLE who are the ones left listening to them. And that is not, shall we say, strategic.
Get used to the idea that shit is extremely fucked, hang in there, and try to keep some sense of reality in spite of everything being done to prevent that.
They are not playing a long-term game. This escalation is happening for a reason, because they are cornered traitors actively trying to hurt us, and it’s harder and harder to keep that going.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer:
I believe it was published in all the McClatchy papers
I genuinely wonder what percentage of this country can name both of their state’s Senators.
Steeplejack (phone)
@NotMax:
Agreed. Almost makes you want to open a can of whooping-ass on someone, don’t it?
Also dove/dived.
Cheryl Rofer
See, y’all, this got tweeted into my timeline from someone else –
zhena gogolia
@Calouste:
Right.
hueyplong
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “I genuinely wonder what percentage of this country can name both of their state’s Senators.”
Sight unseen, I’ll take the under, before the betting pushes the line down.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
I believe there was an impeachment a couple of months ago.
Another Scott
@?BillinGlendaleCA: It was on SiriusXM. There’s now something called “Progress” – siriusxm.com/siriusxmprogress
“What You’ll Hear
Progressive talk with Michelangelo Signorile, Dean Obeidallah, Stephanie Miller, Zerlina Maxwell, and more.”
Franken is listed as another one of the hosts there.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
Once a defendant has pleaded guilty, there is no prosecution, just the sentencing. Trial is over when there is a plea agreement. Judge will be pissed, don’t know what he will do. Perhaps maximum sentence just to see what Trump will do next.
Flynn is a despicable person, right down in the shit with Barr and Trump.
cain
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: 100% – we are a bubble on to ourselves.
rikyrah
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
I was saying that earlier – they are policy nerds.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah:
That is a most excellent point.
cain
@Cheryl Rofer: I just follow the more media saavy ones – and my state reps. But there is something about how twitter shows you tweets that you tend to miss a lot. I didn’t realize that until I had another shared twitter account that was showing a lot of content I was interested in but was never shown to me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@rikyrah: I just read this article at Vox, which like everything else at Vox is overlong and overwritten, and specifically only in most oblique and dismissive way refers to the tic-toc tweet and Reade’s membership in the cult, but after reading it I was, after so much fearful hemming and hawing by those who hint that maybe her story isn’t as rock-solid as Ryan Grim and Rebecca Traister insist it is, surprised at how well it lays out that Reade is, not to put to fine a point on it, full of shit. And the title:
I remember being impressed by McGann in the past, but if she’s “stuck”, might I suggest that she READ HER OWN DAMN ARTICLE!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: D’oh! Forgot the link.
low-tech cyclist
@zhena gogolia: I believe there was an impeachment a few months back too. But the deaths of 75,000 Americans, with a couple thousand more each day, might be hitting closer to home with many Americans than the Ukraine business.
The Administration was capable of muddying the waters on Ukraine. I think it helped, though, that many Americans just don’t give a damn about Ukraine. (Plenty of Americans can’t name their Senators; caring about Ukraine is a stretch.)
It’s pretty obvious to me that people will keep dying by the thousand (or two) each day as long as Trump is President. That alone should be reason to be demanding his exit NOW, not next January.
The Dems, at a minimum, should demand his resignation, loudly and continually. The election should be the Dems’ backstop: if we can’t force him out now, then we’ll settle for January if we must. But the Dems must do their damnedest to throw the responsibility for the continuing deaths not just on Trump, but on the GOP Senators who keep him in office while the bodies pile up. Hence impeachment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@low-tech cyclist:
demand in one hand and shit in the other, one of your hand will be full
there is only the election. That’s it. There’s nothing else. And that election might well be a close-run thing. Because the American electorate, taken as whole, is dumb and lazy. If you don’t start with that premise, you get nowhere.
Cheryl Rofer
@cain: Twitter can be weird. I use TweetDeck, which seems to be pretty straightforward on showing tweets from the accounts you follow as they are tweeted.
Mai naem mobile
@cain: it was Sinema, Doug Jones and Manchin. Please primary because you know you can get another Democrat voted in a federal election in Alabama and WV.
J R in WV
@Mart:
Who is “they” in “they will never let that happen”?
The media is owned and operated by wealthy pigs for the most part. It was much less so in the 1960s and ’70s when I worked at a family-owned small town newspaper. Partly because of relaxed ownership requirements that allowed consolidation of small town news outlets by corporations like Sinclair and Gannett. Partly because of the crash in advertising spending on newspapers.
But wife worked in national news media all her working career, and it went down hill fast come the 1990s and 2000s. Really fast and really far downhill~!!~
Just watch for yourself, how small the print editions of even important big city newspapers are today. How many TV stations are owned by a giant right-wing conglomerate…
Not like Ben Franklin’s day printing one page at a time with w screw driven press… and still able to make money and pay employees.
Mai naem mobile
@J R in WV: is there a way for Judge Sullivan to slow walk the conviction/sentencing till January when the next president and AG can turn stuff around or Trumpov can just pardon him before that? Can’t the COVID 19 pandemic be used at least just for that one good thing?
Mary Ellen Sandahl
I’m sure I’m at least the third to say this, but Schiff tweeted about Barr’s Flynn dismissal -attempt 2 hours before this post was time-stamped. A short tweet, but you can hear him grinding his teeth in fury.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I can, but it seems a waste of time when, Deo volente, I’ll have not one but two new Senators to memorise come November.
:-)
Karen
Yet.
J R in WV
@germy:
True, but you don’t have to be an activist, just being black works fine for getting shot, by anyone it seems, down south. Black while jogging, while driving, while voting, while just being black in your house!!!!
Mary Ellen Sandahl
@NotMax:
Just the opposite for me. When’s the last time you (or I) were leaded to do believe something?
I’d also like to put in a plug for anyway rather than anyways, though I get that that one’s less a grammar matter and more about regionalism.
mrmoshpotato
Dump’s valet works at McDonald’s?
J R in WV
@Shalimar:
While I really hate to pour cold water on anything that puts Trump down, these guys are military, and they don’t work 24/7/365 — there are shifts.
To have someone on duty every hour of every day of the month, it takes 6 people to cover mid-nights, weekends, holidays, etc. Think about it for just a minute, and try to do the schedule. People take leave, get sick, and that’s why it’s more than 2 or 3 people.
lurker dean
@Cheryl Rofer: i have a lot of rage like you, cheryl. tweets, not followed by any action, don’t temper that rage, for me at least. and i understand that there are perhaps reasons to not start hearings, but it makes one feel so helpless as we watch corruption completely overwhelm our entire government. it just feels wrong that doing nothing other than tweeting and doing interviews is the proper response. maybe that’s all they could realistically do, but it still feels wrong.
Karen
Trumpet owns the DOJ, the FBI and many, many judges. And who thinks I’m crazy to think they’re setting up for canceling the elections?
NotMax
@Karen
*raises hand*
Not in the cards of any conceivable deck. Elections are the purview of the states. Period, full stop.
oclib
@J R in WV:
Well….some did in the past….
whitehousehistory.org/presidential-valets
MoCA Ace
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz… I’m sorry, I nodded off after “rebuild the wall blah blah whatever”. Soooo Borrrrrring.
Kidding/not kidding. But as many here have pointed out this is the problem. Democrats value competence over bluster and bullshit. The media values bluster and bullshit over everything else.
low-tech cyclist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And how do you set up the election? The Republican strategy has never been ‘wait until after Labor Day.’ They start early, and hit hard from the get-go.
View calls for resignation, then for the 25th, then impeachment itself, as part of the election campaign: each step a holding of Trump himself, and the Republican Congresspersons and Senators who vote to keep him in office as the bodies pile up, responsible for all the dead. Make sure all those bodies are good and wrapped around all their necks, from now until the heat death of the Universe.
To quote Heinlein, “Throw rocks at ’em! Damn it, big rocks! Hit ’em hard!”
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Thanks for dealing with that. I’m sick of hearing the Cancel-the-election bullshit when you’d have to have 50 Secretaries of State go “Fuck it. He’s President for life.”
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Amen. Was sick of hearing about it when it was bandied about for this century’s Bush. Was sick of hearing about it when it was said of Obama.
CarolDuhart2
@?BillinGlendaleCA: There’s still some progressive terrestrial radio left- WCPT (out of Chicago), Free Speech TV, whatever. I’ve said a million times, give these people some love so they can expand, and stop looking for a billionaire to fund a liberal Fox. And don’t forget the PodSave_ podcasts-spread them around, even front-page them so that other people know they exist. And don’t forget @StephMillerShow, as well.
The right-wing media juggernaut didn’t start with Fox. It started with shock jocks who were laid off from AM radio who couldn’t make the grade to FM music stations, so they decided to go for an underserved market of right-wingers to keep going. And especially listen to Stephanie Miller. Between the jokes, she interviews a lot of Congresspeople and Democratic operatives as well and keeps up with the stuff that’s going on.
Dagoo
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Mueller is a bit mentally impaired. This is a quote from Sy Hersh last year: “First of all, it is a hard story to do. And in general the newspapers have missed some really significant stories anyway. For example, Mueller was an FBI director first and he’s been in the government for a long time. It is not a big secret in Washington that Mueller is not as quick as he used to be. He lost his fastball. A lot of people know that. And now the Democrats are in love with FBI directors? Those aren’t our people.”