—–ATTENTION—–
If you or a loved one has been refused entry to a private business for not wearing a mask and you would like to explore legal options to protect your constitutional rights, our law firm is happy to explain just how fucking stupid you are.
— Contingency Fee (@ContingencyFee) May 18, 2020
But seriously, only call – do not show up for an in-person consultation you plague rat.
— Contingency Fee (@ContingencyFee) May 18, 2020
NEW: cellphone data suggests anti-lockdown protesters have been dispersing to all corners of their respective states, and beyond https://t.co/jmPsM0nt4I
— Jason Wilson (@jason_a_w) May 18, 2020
Drawn to each other like flies to… other flies:
… The data, provided to the Guardian by the progressive campaign group the Committee to Protect Medicare, raises the prospect that the protests will play a role in spreading the coronavirus epidemic to areas which have, so far, experienced relatively few infections.
The anonymized location data was captured from opt-in cellphone apps, and data scientists at the firm VoteMap used it to determine the movements of devices present at protests in late April and early May in five states: Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Colorado and Florida.
They then created visualizations that tracked the movements of those devices up to 48 hours after the conclusion of protests. The visualizations only show movements within states, due to the queries analysts made in creating them. But the data scientist Jeremy Fair, executive-vice president of VoteMap, says that many of the devices that are seen to reach state borders are seen to continue across them in the underlying raw data…
In North Carolina in late April, one of the leaders of the state’s anti-lockdown protests tested positive for Covid-19 but said she would attend future rallies…
I linked this story last night (early this morning), but ICYMI:
Religious gatherings, nursing homes, meat packing plants, choirs, ski resorts, ships. COVID-19 spreads in clusters, and @kakape powerfully explores the role these play in population spread–and how targeting them might help get us out of this mess. https://t.co/nqokYjvKHS pic.twitter.com/A1XYL0BaiU
— Jon Cohen (@sciencecohen) May 19, 2020
Chinese farmers offered cash to quit wild animal trade https://t.co/szsChYBFUO
— SCMP News (@SCMPNews) May 18, 2020
I hadn’t realized how extensive the ‘wildlife’ farming operations were. As with the ‘exotic animal’ tiger-breeding business in America, obviously there’s a market, but it’s probably not essential, if the farmers can be otherwise compensated:
… The central province of Hunan said on Friday that people who bred wild animals for food and who voluntarily closed their farms would be compensated and encouraged to raise other animals.
It was the first province to introduce such a policy, and under the scheme farmers will be paid 120 yuan (US$17) for each kilogram of snakes or 75 yuan for bamboo rats they handed over.
Each porcupine or civet, a catlike species previously linked to the sever acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) epidemic in the early 2000s, will bring a payout of about 600 yuan (US$84).
Hunan also announced extra subsidies and employment training programmes to help wild animal farmers…
In Ganzhou, a city in the eastern province of Jiangxi, the city government has encouraged wild animal farmers to switch by offering loans and cheaper rents for farmland.
In the town of Dongyuan, in the southern province of Guangdong, the government has pledged to spend 2 million yuan (US$280,000) subsidising bamboo rat and snake farmers who have to give up their trade…
According to a 2017 report by the Chinese Academy of Engineering, China’s wildlife trade is worth 520 billion yuan (US$74 billion) and employs more than 14 million people.
In some of the poorest parts of China, such as Guizhou and Guangxi, wildlife farming is an important source of income, especially for those in poverty.
China has not publicised the progress or actions it has taken to enforce a national ban on the trade and consumption of wild animals since it was imposed in February…
Extracts from a longer thread:
Three weeks ago, a moral panic about beachgoing on a hot weekend in California culminated in the governor shutting down beaches across Orange County. Subsequent hospitalization data shows nothing happened. Can we agree now that the great outdoors is not a death trap? pic.twitter.com/a61CLEsjhK
— Pinboard (@Pinboard) May 19, 2020
Lifting unnecessary restrictions quickly will better preserve our ability to impose new restrictions as we need them. The problem isn't the initial overreaction (better safe than sorry!) but a failure to roll it back, and a puritanical insistence that restrictions are good for us
— Pinboard (@Pinboard) May 19, 2020
This is exactly the point. If we keep excessively strict rules in place after it's clear they're overkill, people will start to ignore *all* the rules, including the lifesaving ones. Don't give the crazy people room to sound reasonable; be reasonable first https://t.co/bRmty6QVyO
— Pinboard (@Pinboard) May 19, 2020
Related:
BREAKING: Americans want their sense of normalcy back – but not at the cost of people’s lives. Today 20 bipartisan health care leaders and I joined forces to outline how our government can #OpenSafely amid COVID-19. 1/ https://t.co/1nHcmq1bR1
— Andy Slavitt @ ? (@ASlavitt) May 20, 2020
None of this is earth-shattering, or even novel… but I figure anything published in USA Today is pretty much the ‘centrist concensus’ viewpoint — “Health leaders: We stuck together to #StayHome, now we can start together to #OpenSafely”:
… [O]pening the country before we have the conditions like those outlined in the White House plan can put Americans at risk unless we take further steps. It won’t help the economy if we end up having to pull back hard or close again because the virus starts spreading toward the point where it threatens our health care systems and further disrupts our health. The things that will bring us back — consumer spending, business hiring, signing leases, travel and capital investment — won’t happen unless Americans feel confident they can do these things without a substantial risk of harm to themselves or their loved ones from getting and spreading COVID-19.
We are asking decision-makers at all levels to #OpenSafely — to move along the path of opening up our communities again as deliberately as necessary and as quickly as can be safely accomplished…
►Following the plan laid out by Dr. Birx to begin opening communities up with two weeks of declining case counts and the other gating criteria met — or explaining how there is an alternative plan for containment if that condition is not met.
►Creating adequate diagnostic testing availability so that people who need a test can get one — particularly people with symptoms, and those without symptoms in high-risk settings like nursing homes, prisons and meatpacking plants.
►Implementing improved safety standards and protocols to avoid outbreaks and slow spreading in potential hot spots.
►Having adequate public health infrastructure to contact trace and offer voluntary isolation to contain the virus when it is detected — not necessarily to trace all cases successfully, but enough to minimize potential outbreak clusters and keep getting better over time…Pause if care capacity is threatened
As the reopening process begins and moves forward, states should be carefully monitoring hospitalization trends and their hospital capacity. If the rise in cases is on track to threaten hospitals’ capacity to care for COVID-19 or other acutely ill patients in the state, states should immediately take steps to slow or pause reopening efforts. The lag between infection and serious complications is typically eight days or more, so there is little time to wait if such trends emerge.Safest to carefully open up
Areas that can most safely open up (with appropriate distancing and risk mitigation steps) if states have met the Dr. Birx gating criteria but have not yet initiated the reopening process are:►Doctor offices, clinics and surgery centers with sufficient community PPE.
►Workplaces like retail and manufacturing.
►Parks and other outdoor recreation, lakes, gardens and bike trails.
►Shopping areas and coffee shops where people don’t congregate in large numbers or for extended periods.
►Outdoor weddings and funerals with small groups that physically distance and wear masks when close together…We believe Americans want to remain united in the fight against COVID-19, as we were in the initial response after 9/11. We can overcome this epidemic with smart policies and committed actions.
Visit Open-Safely.us to learn more.
ThresherK
Anyone else channeling their Lionel Hutz voice for that top one?
rikyrah
cain
I have always criticized the old chinese folks with their perchance for exotic meats, but also for their love of ivory – they are directly responsible for the hunting of elephants, boars and anything with tusks because ivory is considered lucky. I mean, shit man, how many lucky things do you need?
Thankfully the younger generations are not so into it as the older ones.
That said, ivory can now be made in a lab and it looks absolutely indistinguishable from the real thing. Convert those African hunters into commodity sellers of ivory and they can sell it to all those people instead.
cain
@rikyrah:
I’m sure Obama can make a case that he’s too busy just like Trump. Don’t show up and make them work for it. Quid quo pro – I show up when Trump shows up.
Kent
For what it’s worth. I think the $74 billion estimate of the size of the “wildlife” food trade in China is overstated because that figure includes aquaculture like shrimp, catfish, tilapia, and so forth which is enormous in China and not something affected by these bans, or linked to any human diseases.
mrmoshpotato
That first series of tweets is great!
Kent
On Maddow yesterday she pointed out that the top four worst pandemic nations in the world right now are the four that are led by the four most horrible right wing old white men. All four of whom are notorious for their slow response to the pandemic.
USA, Russia, Brazil, and UK
That cannot be a coincidence.
The 7 female led countries? They rank at the very top in their effective response to the pandemic:
Germany, Taiwan, New Zealand, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Denmark.
Even Forbes Magazine has noticed
ET
I remember signs that said NoShirt, No Shoes, No Service and no one thought twice about those.
VeniceRiley
The civet cat coffee bean poop market futures just went through the roof, I bet.
Omnes Omnibus
I remember coming across a quotation from an old and experienced lawyer who said that 90% of his practice was telling people that they were being a damned fool and should stop.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: That’s a really interesting legal argument: “We are going along with these unjustified subpoenas in order to unify our party and improve our chances of winning the November election”
Ah, never mind. I’m sure they’d be fine if Democrats did it, right?
rikyrah
Someone posted about the NASA head that resigned suddenly.
We said that there was some corruption about it.
Here you go
https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/1263272064875724803
Omnes Omnibus
Just no.
Barbara
@Kent: What are they teaching us? That it is important to differentiate between risks and know the kind of risks that aren’t worth taking? Or maybe that their life experience has taught them success isn’t a guaranteed commodity? Boris Johnson and Trump have this in common: they never really had to work for their status or success. Unfortunately for them, the lowest of life forms just don’t pay attention the way sycophantic flunkies do. Bad for them, worse for us.
dmsilev
@rikyrah: Nobody outside NASA knows for sure exactly what happened; here’s some informed speculation from a fairly well-connected journalist.
Jay
Posted downthread, but reposted here,
Jay
Jeffro
Man these Loefflers sure are scum, though, aren’t they?
rikyrah
HumboldtBlue
@dmsilev:
Talk about your full-service blogs. Thanks.
Emma
My mom sent me this opinion piece from a few days ago: https://www.todayonline.com/commentary/why-responsibility-must-come-freedom-singapores-fight-against-covid-19
It’s written by a former Attorney General of Singapore, and unlike in the US currently, AGs really have to know their shit in Singapore. Anyway, it’s a clapback at a BBC article, and the general thought in certain circles about “obedient Asians following their leaders because Confucianamanamism”
Brachiator
I vaguely recall a story about how a bounty was offered for some pesky animal in Australia or the US decades and decades ago. So, of course, people starting breeding the animals to get the bounty.
Jay
@Brachiator:
given the Ozzies lost the Emu War, its not surprising,…..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War
Brachiator
@Kent:
You forgot about Belgium.
Still, a high average.
Jay
@Brachiator:
India,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect
rikyrah
Emma
@VeniceRiley: not sure if the type of civet in the OP is same the type with the special poop used for coffee (kopi luwak). I’d always thought it came from civets in Indonesia (Wikipedia tells me that it’s specifically the Asian palm civet), but apparently people in the Philippines also produce this coffee with the same species. Either way, I don’t think civet coffee is going to get more expensive than it already is lol.
Brachiator
@dmsilev:
From the article:
Wow. An inspector general doing his or her job.
Wonder if Trump will go in all heavy-handed here.
Mary G
Here in the OC the numbers of both new cases and hospitalizations set new records, so I am not that convinced that the brave protesters proved the point that @pinboard is making.
Jay
Funny that,……
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6957921/pensacola-military-base-shooting-al-qaida/amp/
Jay
@rikyrah:
funny how Cuomo and deBlasio had no authority over letting the more virulent form of Covid 19 into the Eastern Seaboard from Italy and Europe,
but a certain pile of shit in an orange died skin suit created a mass panicked and uncontrolled migration of Typhoid Mikes and Marys,…..
Anya
@rikyrah: This makes me feel like crying. My fellow citizens will not care about the way the GOP is corrupting of our institutions to win at any cost. Some of the voters who should wipe these fuckers out of the political map will still yell about how Biden is a corporatist sellout or whatever the new complaint is. Others will just be apathetic. We’ve lost half of this country to racism and conservative grievance industry, and the other half is so divided or victims of institutional voter suppression.
rikyrah
Kent
@rikyrah: To date perhaps. This pandemic still has a LONG ways o go and CA is still on the wrong side of the curve.
Another Scott
@Mary G: Agreed. I think it’s far too early to conclude that “keeping the beaches closed is obviously stupid” from that Pinboard graph. And one might be able to see an uptick at the end anyway.
Nobody is arguing for stupid restrictions for the sake of stupidity, but looking at one graph and deciding to throw the beach restrictions out is not smart either.
Yeah, that ScienceMag article (cited above) points out that a study in Japan said it was 19x more dangerous to be inside than outside as far as “super-spreaders” are concerned. But a public beach isn’t the same as being outside by yourself. Parking, public showers and toilets, food shacks, recreation shacks, bus stops, etc., etc. all need to be considered.
The details matter.
Cheers,
Scott.
James E Powell
@Another Scott:
Also agree. Too soon to be talking about anything like we know how it will all turn out. Let’s talk again in November, when we will have a clearer idea of the life expectancy of the American democratic experiment.
JWR
@Mary G:
I’ve been tracking to OC numbers since May 05, as reported on local TV news, and from that day until today, here’s what’s been reported:
So yeah, I’m a bit uncomfortable with what @pinboard is saying there, too.
Jay
Jay
@Kent:
@Mary G:
@Another Scott:
@JWR:
phased reopening here. Gone from 50 people in the store and closing at 6pm to 200 people in the store and an 8pm close, soon to be 10pm, when you can’t buy plexiglass, lexan or acrylic.
So it’s masks on gloves on from the bus stop to back home every day.
Bill Arnold
@Jay:
The one popularized by Freakonomics was the Hanoi Rat Bounty:
The Great Hanoi Rat Massacre of 1902 Did Not Go as Planned – Instead of disappearing, the pesky rodents proliferated. (Shay Maunz June 6, 2017)
HumboldtBlue
Oh my, this is going to be good,
Jay
@HumboldtBlue:
Lenaia???????? Dumph dumped another one????
JWR
@HumboldtBlue: Was going to ask who the hell is “Lenaia Trump”, but CNN’s already fixed it. ;)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Mary G:
@Another Scott:
The “moral panic” characterization stuck out to me
HumboldtBlue
@Jay: @JWR:
Now I’m laughing.
No, that was my fault because I missed the cut and paste mark and typed manually.
Badly.
As you both have pointed out.
Thanks. My shattered ego needed that reminder of error and shame.
Jay
@HumboldtBlue:
no need for the shame, It’s Dumph, could aready be #23 by now,……
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@HumboldtBlue:
It’s guaranteed to be a content-free, lip-service session for sure. She’s such a phony and doesn’t care that the nation knows it. What has she done as FL that wasn’t either plagiarized from Michele Obama or is some hypocritical vanity project? “Be Best”? What a lame name! It’s like she’s trying to ape Nancy Reagan’s “Just Say No” anti-drug campaign but is even worse
HumboldtBlue
@Jay:
Yeah, I was being a smartass.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Awkward. Gonna be awkward.
mrmoshpotato
OT – ?I’m Hans Gruber, and I’m grubing?
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
A similar thing I have heard is that a good lawyer will help you get out of trouble, but a great lawyer will help you keep out of trouble.
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: “Hi. I’m First Lady Michelle Obama…”
James E Powell
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Maggie Haberman & the NYT will declare that she has successfully softened Trump’s image. Count on it.
ziggy
Good point. The way they have handled this locally is to open the parks, but keep the restrooms closed.
This is a BIG PROBLEM for us outdoor workers! Nobody is letting us use the restrooms anywhere! Port-a-potties are locked up. WTH are we supposed to do? ! (screaming into the void, hoping someone somewhere will listen).
on another topic–I’m tired and speed-read this, but it looks like a very interesting and opinionated article on what is happening at the CDC:
https://medium.com/@bgweniger/straight-talk-from-ex-cdc-for-the-long-slog-ahead-f9d18a8502d1
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
I’d avoid putting too much weight on the record number of cases anywhere in California. We’ve massively increased our testing over the past couple of weeks, and we’re still at the stage where testing more people will generate more cases. The record number of hospitalizations is far more worrisome.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Cuomo and DeBlasio spent way too much time waving their dicks at each other. Newsom, Breed, and Garcetti rolled up their sleeves and all pushed in the same direction.
HumboldtBlue
@mrmoshpotato:
By the time it hits social media she’ll be photoshopped with a squirrel, moose and a guy named Aesop who gets a bump in the snoot.
ziggy
@Roger Moore: I’m very concerned about what I am seeing in California. In new cases, deaths, hospitalizations. Nothing is trending downward, and the state has worked so hard on it. Do you know what the percent of positive cases found in testing is?
Mnemosyne
@ziggy:
Could your boss rent a porta-potty for your crew to use exclusively? Or make arrangements with the city or county for a public restroom to be opened just for you guys?
ziggy
@Mnemosyne: Unfortunately “you guys” would be me, myself and I (female with typical older bladder). Guys can be quite discreet if necessary.
Roger Moore
@ziggy:
For the reason I stated (we’re testing more) I’m a little bit less worried about the rate of new cases being relatively static. Over the past week, just over 4% of tests have come back positive, which is an improvement from just under 5% the week before and about 6% two weeks before. That said, the death rate has also been relatively static at about 500/week, and that’s really troublesome; it implies that the disease isn’t growing out of control, but it isn’t shrinking either.
Jay
@ziggy:
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5029-448/Extreme-Urinating-Device
Mnemosyne
@ziggy:
Hm. I mean, if you Google it, there are devices that would allow you to be “one of the guys” when needed — they’re usually sold for camping. I can’t remember any brand names right now, but they might also be kind of gross if you don’t also have access to running water to rinse them off afterwards. Though I guess you could use wet wipes in a pinch and then wash the device when you get home.
ETA: I see that Jay found a link for Canada, but you could also look on the REI or Amazon websites.
ziggy
Great minds think alike!
different-church-lady
Bernie does his penance
HumboldtBlue
@different-church-lady:
What timing, I was in the process of deciding which paragraph to cut out.
Uh-huh
sdhays
Do you have any hypothesis for why California is struggling when they seem to be doing so much of the right thing?
Duane
@HumboldtBlue: I really don’t care do u? All anyone needs to know about Melania Trump.
Mary G
@JWR: Here’s the OC Board of Health’s daily report for today, with all the graphs and numbers. The cases are still very low, and there is plenty of hospital capacity, but the trendlines are going the wrong way.
Mary G
@sdhays: Quarantine fatigue is real, even for regular people. My housemates are caregivers, and have worked all the way through. In March there was no traffic, they say, but it has rapidly increased from the middle of April until it’s just about back to normal now. Also, the weather is spectacular and the beach is calling. Testing is still spotty.
NotMax
@Mary G
If it’s not being too nosy, has the school-averse kid been keeping up with distance studenting? I’ll fully understand if you choose not to respond.
JWR
@Mary G: Thanks for that link. Looks like OC is going in all the wrong directions.
What got me interested in OC were the same images Newsome looked at that caused him to call for the short-lived total lockdown of the beaches, but it looks like the no-nothing behavior across the county is beginning to win out.
NotMax
Hoocudanode? (WaPo link)
Mary G
@NotMax: He was perfect for the first four or five weeks, barely coming out of his room and spending 18 hours a day on his phone. He’s not a reader and I’m sure he hated it.
Like the rest of the non-endangered public, it didn’t last. Now he leaves just about every day to see his girlfriend and hang at the beach. They are also fighting with the city over the skateboard park. He says he’s not hanging indoors with any other friends, washes his hands for a good 40 seconds the minute he comes in, and never comes within 15 feet of me. All the windows are open and fans on.
I worry, but not that much. I have my own bathroom, and wipe down the kitchen with bleach solution when I go in there. So far so good. He knows his mother and grandmother will kill him if I get sick, and he’s a bit of a germaphobe himself
ETA: I see I got sidetracked and never answered your question. He is not doing well with the distance schooling. It’s pretty much slacking off, the district tells his mom, she yells, he does a minimum of work, rinse and repeat.
John Revolta
Um, the chart shows intensive care and other hospitalized patients. Younger people- like under 40 and especially under 30- almost never are hospitalized for this whether they get exposed or not. Now what age groups are far and away most likely to be found at the beach? This data is useless and Pinboard is a Pinhead.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@sdhays: It’s because folk aren’t doing what they should be doing, mask compliance is a joke here in Glendale.
ETA: We have a mandatory mask requirement here in the city, even to go and walk your dog, you’re supposed to wear a mask. Compliance has been about 30%.
oclib
My daughter is an RN at St. Joseph in Orange. Since she works in labor and delivery, I always thought that might be the safer environment to work in. She pointed out to me that that is a far far cry from a droplet safe environment when women in labor are involved….
NotMax
@Mary G
Thank you. Frankly it doesn’t sound like a ballooning of travail much more than in before times, which I guess is something of an achievement considering the heightened sense of stress.
At any rate it is good to hear the school district is attempting not to let students get lost in the shuffle.
Chetan Murthy
@?BillinGlendaleCA: By contrast, everywhere I go in SF (which, admittedly, isn’t much — basically only to Golden Gate Park and the parking lot of Safeway for pickups) everybody is masked. One thing, though: I’m seeing a lot more traffic than a week-or-so ago. Lot more.
ISTM that while we think we’re working really, really hard at this lockdown, we aren’t actually, and that is part of the problem.
NotMax
@BillinGlendaleCA
“But officer, this isn’t my dog.”
//
Meanwhile, locally we get policing stories such as this: Travel Quarantine Violator Sought.
Jay
@oclib:
with the opening here,
80,000 plus confirmed, ( testing /trace still sucks)
6,041 so far dead,
In a Province that has 5 million people,
40,000 plus recovered,
With the reopening, mask and glove, and 6 feet minimum at all times.
Fuck it. I ain’t dying so some plutocrat can bump their worth by 0.1%.
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Funny, Burbank is pretty well masked up. Not everyone wears one while walking, but folks keep much more than 6 feet away. Everyone wears them in the stores (though not always correctly).
I have an acquaintance who is Armenian from Glendale and there seems to be quite a lot of resistance to wearing masks in that particular community.
NotMax
Maui county also announced this year’s county fair is cancelled. Normally held around late Sept./early Oct.
Haven’t seen word one about it but would not be in the least upset if the county offered some compensatory monies to offset a percentage of the loss of income the amusement rides and carnival games people (who normally bring everything over from Oahu by barges) will bear.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, that’s a big problem.
oclib
@Jay:
I don’t think I provided an opening here, since the thread is in regards to the covid virus, but as a long time lurker and seldom poster, I’d just like to say I’ve enjoyed your posts…..whether on-topic or OT….or whether you’re a canuck or not…. :)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: LA County Fair was cancelled about a month ago.
JWR
@Chetan Murthy: I’m seeing a lot more traffic than a week-or-so ago.
Traffic here in the western San Gabriel Valley was way down up until this past week, where it felt like maybe 60% of normal. And I had my first Funtime on the Freeway, where speed limits are definitely being ignored. People don’t even follow the basic speed law limits one sees in states where it’s allowed.
HumboldtBlue
@oclib:
Oh we got the fucking Canuck password.
And Howe.
Origuy
Masks are pretty much universal in my part of Santa Clara County. Occasionally I see people wearing them with the noses sticking out. Every place has six foot spacing, although that isn’t always enforced.
Santa Clara County Dashboard (requires Flash)
It looks like deaths here are on the way down. There are several places where people can get tested, so cases are still steady.
oclib
@HumboldtBlue:
stirring speech indeed…..
thank you for that….
Matt McIrvin
@Emma: That article implies that the reason Singapore has such a low case fatality rate is that everyone else is underreporting cases. But there’s something fishy about that explanation– their CFR is so low, it would imply that the conspiracy theorists are right and COVID is no more lethal than seasonal flu!
It’s flatly inconsistent with the antibody studies in New York City. In fact, it’s inconsistent even with assuming that everyone in New York City is infected. Something else is going on. Maybe it’s that their infected population was mostly guest workers and are relatively young? Maybe their medical care really is that good? Or maybe they’re juking the stats. At any rate I don’t understand it
(Also, chalking SG’s outbreak up to a breakdown on individual responsibility is, I think, bullshit–it was their exploitative labor practices that did it. Not that we can in any way throw stones.)
Matt McIrvin
@Matt McIrvin: …The “young workers” explanation appears to be correct (combined with effective testing and isolation keeping it out of older populations): https://www.vox.com/2020/5/20/21265194/coronavirus-deaths-us-singapore-case-fatality-rates
evodevo
@Mary G: Yes…this is the norm for a LOT of students..I taught college-level correspondence courses in Bio, Genetics and Evolution for 20 years, and believe me, most students can’t do it…”independent study” requires organizational skills and motivation that many do not have…
LongHairedWeirdo
@ThresherK: Alas, Lionel Hutz would gladly sue the business – remember, he called Homer a hero for suing an “all you can eat” business for throwing him out (at closing time? Or because he’d just tucked away more than your average sea monster?).
Now, I’d love to see John Oliver’s take on that. John Oliver is on YouTube, and, dear god, he became a sarcastic Mr. Rogers for me, for one bright moment. (Paraphrased) “How scared should you be? A bit. A bit. I won’t lie to you, this is a new disease, and we don’t know a lot about. If you’re drinking bleach because you’re afraid of the coronavirus, you need to calm the F down; and if you’re licking subway poles because you think nothing can hurt you, maybe don’t do that for a while.”
That’s especially true, because some polacks take unkindly to being licked by strangers. (as A Streetcar Named Desire will tell you, “Pole” is the proper term for someone from Poland. Having grown up in a Polish neighborhood in Philly, I claim the right to use “polack” in careful, non-malicious, contexts. I just hope no Polish people read this, if they find the concept of a person licking at random to be *that* upsetting….)
LongHairedWeirdo
@Matt McIrvin: keep in mind, if you test *everyone* entering the country, and if you are otherwise doing a rapid-detect, isolate, and trace, you can *kill off* the outbreak. It can *die* from lack of new hosts. That’s what’s happening when R0<1 (each infected person tends to infect at a lower-than-replacement speed).
Is that why Singapore’s stats are, as they are? *NO* idea. None. Not a whisper, not from me.
It is one of the possible explanations; and it’s important to realize that it *could* have happened with the US, too.
Heh. You know Donald Trump is an ignoramus; that’s obvious. But you know something? With a different sort of insecure ignoramus, we might have had a President who spent 5-10x as much money as needed, and wasted lots of valuable resources, but *jumped* on everything that would make this problem actually, honestly, not-just-for-pretend, *GO AWAY*.
Instead, he’s so misarrogant he thought it would go away on its own.
(Misarrogant is my word for people who are arrogant as fuck, but only as competent as a chaste kiss, if you grok the comparison.)