This is the a post for anyone who wants to talk Washington State Initiatives Referendum, Consitutional Amendment, etc.
The intention is to provide a jumping off point for discussion, and a place for BJ folks to share their views, not to suggest to anyone how they should vote.
Yutsano graciously agreed to share his views to get us started.
This post has been added in the sidebar under Election Action! for easy reference later.
Referendum 90 – Repeals Senate Bill 5395 (2020) regarding sexual health education in public schools
Basically, the RWNJ in the state want to repeal the sex education law because it actually starts in kindergarten.
VOTE on 90: changed to THUMBS UP!
The law as passed has out clauses for the parents. They don’t want their precious wittle snowflakes to hear what the children whose parents don’t opt out hear.
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Advisory vote 32 – Advises legislature to either repeal or maintain Senate Bill 5323, which was designed to levy a retail sales tax on certain carryout bags
Sigh. the Washington Legislature has to get agreement from the taxpayers (I believe it’s 60% of voters but not sure and too lazy to look it up right now) to pass any tax bills.
VOTE on 32: thumbs down. There’s three more of these and I’ll give my final verdict after the last one.
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Advisory vote 33 – Advises legislature to either repeal or maintain Senate Bill 5628, which was designed to levy a tax on heavy equipment rentals
I’m not sure how this idea wasn’t laughed out of the legislature. The revenue generated for this would be so minimal that what’s the point?
VOTE on 33: thumbs down. These first two are beyond ridiculous.
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Advisory vote 34 – Advises legislature to either repeal or maintain Senate Bill 6492, which was designed to increase the business and occupation tax rate and reduce certain surcharges
This is a total facepalm. The last thing the legislature would be doing is raising taxes on small businesses in the middle of a fucking pandemic.
VOTE on 34: thumbs down. I mean seriously? Read the damn room Olympia!
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Advisory vote 35 – Advises legislature to either repeal or maintain Senate Bill 6690, which was designed to increase the business and occupation tax on commercial airplane manufacturers
So on top of everything else the legislature wants to chase Boeing even further out of town? This would practically guarantee Boeing would pack everything up and move to South Carolina.
VOTE on 35: thumbs down. Large polemic coming through:
If all of these tax initiatives sound ridiculous, that’s because they are. It’s the cowardice of the damn Democrats in Olympia. They got bit on the income tax initiative in in 2010. They have been afraid that if it gets tried again it will fail again. I’m like: suck it up champs. This is why we pay you to do this shit.
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Senate Joint Resolution 8212 – Allows funds in the Family and Medical Leave Insurance Account and the Long-Term Care Services and Supports Trust Account to be invested
Under current law, Washington cannot invest any wealth fund like the Family Medical Leave Insurance Account. This is looking to change that.
VOTE on 8212: this is the one I’m REALLY torn on.
On the one hand, this has the potential to expand the sick leave benefit beyond its current payout.
On the other hand, I have a bunch of questions here.
– Who stands to get rich off of this?
– Will there be an open bidding process for the actual private investment group?
– Will it be managed in-house?
– Either way what kinds of oversight and accountability will this have?
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These are jumping off points for discussion, so if you have any thoughts on the initiatives, please share them in the comments!
Open Thread
WaterGirl
Yutsano, are you here for discussion and questions?
Jackie
@WaterGirl: He’s probably watching the Seahawks ?
Mary G
O/T: The FTFNYT seems to have gotten hold of Twitler’s tax returns:
I paid 3K+ to the feds and 1k+ to California this year. Waiting for WaPo or LAT to repeat as I’m out of free clicks.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: It couldn’t happen to a nicer person!
edit: What a terrible shame that this came out just before the first debate. //
WaterGirl
@Jackie: He’s the one who requested 5pm blog time! :-)
Good thing this will be in the sidebar under Election Action! since everyone seems to be missing it today!
But that is why he chose the color scheme for the thread.
JPL
@WaterGirl: sad
Morzer
So when can we begin discussing the Baud/Yutsano 2028 ticket? Hmmm? Hmmmm?
H.E.Wolf
Wherever I’ve lived, I’ve always checked what the local League of Women Voters recommends. They’re non-partisan and consensus-based, and they do their research. They never endorse candidates, but do take positions on ballot initiatives.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: Yeah, the CA propositions posts included links to the League of Women’s voters for each one. They are good.
Raven Onthill
R90 actually confirms the sex education law, so a vote for it is a vote to support that law. Text:
Zzyzx
Aren’t those advisory things that stupid Tim Eyman thing that requires them automatically whenever there’s any sort of tax? They’re stupid but meaningless. I always vote no.
WaterGirl
@Raven Onthill: Yutsano seems concerned with what he calls the “out clauses for the parents”. Are you concerned that the law allows parents to out out?
Zzyzx
@Zzyzx:
see this from The Stranger re those votes. Don’t blame Olympia. The Stranger (Seattle alt weekly) is NOT a fan of them.
https://www.thestranger.com/news/2019/10/09/41625578/the-strangers-endorsements-for-the-november-5-2019-general-election
Mike in Oly
I get much use out of The Stranger’s election guides every year. They are fun, thorough and right in line with my lefty leaning mindset. And yes, the ‘advisory votes’ are a meaningless waste of time. I always vote maintain just to stick it to Eyman. That old grifter really needs to go away now.
JaySinWA
@Zzyzx: Yes they are the stupid Eyman thing.
JaySinWA
@WaterGirl: Did he ask for 5pm Pacific Time? ’cause it isn’t that late yet out here.
JaySinWA
@WaterGirl: I may have misread him, but I think he is saying they already have an opt out so repealing the law is bogus. However if the previous comment is correct and this is affirming the old law the statement is broken in general. I’ll have to take a look.
Whoops is a referendum. Law passed but not in effect yet referred to the voters. From the voters guide: https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/voters-guide/2020/2020_r90web.pd
At any rate the legislature passed the law and then passed the buck by referring it to the voters.
WaterGirl
@JaySinWA: Sometimes things come up unexpectedly, but I am confident that I got the time right.
JaySinWA
@WaterGirl: Ah but did he?
JaySinWA
Here is the state voters guide as reference:
https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/voters-guide/2020/2020-general-election-voters-guide.aspx
JaySinWA
@Zzyzx: Yes I vote to maintain, or abstain, the whole advisory thing is a waste of my time and the governments money. A stupid law passed by initiative. We elect representatives to legislate. This impotent second guessing is useless IMHO.
@Raven Onthill: R90 is a referendum, so yes a vote for is a vote to uphold the law as passed by the legislature. Yutsano has it backwards, I think.
Jamielyn Peterson
There are no initiatives on the Washington State ballot this year.
There’s a referendum, a constitutional amendment, and four pieces of Eyman garbage.
None of the “advisory votes” mean a thing. It’s right wing propaganda. None of these bills are even tax increases… one of them is the Reusable Bag Bill and another is the bill that rescinded Boeing’s tax breaks (at Boeing’s request). Vote “MAINTAINED” to annoy Tim Eyman.
Jamielyn Peterson
@Raven Onthill: Exactly right. With a referendum, you vote “APPROVED” to keep the law, because it has already been passed. A referendum is like a people’s veto. The OP’s comments indicate support for the law, but the stated position (“Rejected”) is the wrong way to vote if you wish to keep the law in place.
None of the measures on the 2020 statewide ballot are initiatives. An initiative is like a bill, but proposed by a voter. No initiatives qualified for this year’s ballot.
JaySinWA
The history is a little muddled here, but I believe all of the supermajority rules for the state legislature are gone. The last one I found was here https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Supermajority_Vote_Required_in_State_Legislature_to_Raise_Taxes,_Initiative_1053_(2010)
There are voter supermajority rules for some property tax levies brought to voters and state property tax increase limits on local levies, but I don’t believe there are limits on the state legislature raising taxes.
ETA Okay there was a later attempt again overturned https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Two-Thirds_Vote_Required_to_Raise_Taxes,_Initiative_1185_(2012)
beckya57
I also live in WA (Tacoma), and I love my beautiful, mostly liberal state, but the main thing this thread did was remind me how much I hate initiatives, our tax system and Eyman, not necessarily in that order.
WaterGirl
@Jamielyn Peterson: Thanks for clarifying. I changed the title and edited the text.
Now that you have clarified the naming, do you have any thoughts on the items facing the voters?
WaterGirl
@beckya57: Well, if you have a place to talk about the various options for Washington, my work here is done. :-)
JaySinWA
@beckya57: Here’s a summary of the income tax history for Washington State. Yutsano might consider our eighty year history of of failing to create an income tax before dismissing it as a failure of Democrats.
https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/research/income-tax-ballot-measures.asp
Another view: https://www.kuow.org/stories/strange-short-story-washington-state-s-income-tax
I would also note that up until recently the state legislature had been effectively deadlocked between Ds and Rs for years in spite of our “liberal” state reputation.
Emma
@WaterGirl: Chris Reykdal, the state superintendent, said in his podcast interview with Indivisible WA that the opt-out clause is there a compromise for evangelicals. He’s even said at another talk I was at that it should be seen more as a comprehensive developmental health curriculum, so the kindergarten classes would be about personal space and knowing what’s an appropriate touch and what’s not, for example. In a perfect world, evangelicals would be for all that too, but…
JaySinWA
@Emma: I what little sex ed we had growing up in WA (many decades ago), there was an option to opt out. I don’t know if anyone took it, maybe they were good about not exposing the opt outs. At any rate, I don’t have a significant problem with opt outs. I don’t think it is good for the student, but it should reduce friction with parents, both with the school and their children.
Yutsano
So yeah…stupid me got distracted with little things like getting my hairs did!
I did do a huge misinterpret on Referendum 90. Changing that to a yes. I really don’t have an issue with the opt out clause.
Emma
@JaySinWA: right, not saying that all the various curricula that WA school districts use currently don’t have opt-out clauses, just that this comprehensive curriculum will have one too, contrary to all the whackos screaming that Inslee will force elementary school kids to learn sex positions (no joke, I’ve seen someone post this on my Nextdoor -_-).
Jamielyn Peterson
@WaterGirl: I’ll be voting Approved on Referendum 90, I would like all our kids to have medically accurate, objective information about sexual health. People make better choices when they’ve been taught about consent and boundaries in relationships. Not every kid can depend on getting good information from their parents; that’s why it is so important it be taught in public schools. Parents who do intend to address the subject can opt their kids out of this instruction if they really want to.
And I’m for the constitutional amendment because it will help us ensure the long term care fund can take care of the people it’s designed to help. A smart investment strategy should include some stocks and private investments to maximize the rate of return. The Constitution already allows this kind of investment for pensions. Makes sense it should also be allowed for long term care.
Jackie
@JaySinWA: Parents have always had opt out options for sex ed. I guess parents never imagined their kids got the Cliff Notes from their classmates.?
JaySinWA
@Emma: I have largely tuned out Nextdoor, the politics is crap disinfo for the most part. Clickbait BS that people seem to believe. But even actively ignoring it I see some of the assault on this. It happens with any and all discussion of sex ed. Same sort of nonsense about common core. There may be problems with common core but the objections that get pushed never seem to be based in anything real
ETA Nextdoor paranoia is yet another reason I tuned out. OMG a person is taking pictures of my house (probably the county assessor who was in the area doing their job)
WaterGirl
@Yutsano: I changed you to THUMBS UP on 90.
WaterGirl
@Jamielyn Peterson: Thanks for that!
I am not from Washington, but I am trying to facilitate conversations about propositions, initiatives, amendments to constitution, so folks have a place where they can think it through or talk it through with people they know.
All the states seem to call them something different!
JaySinWA
@Mike in Oly: I think the wild and wooly days of the Stranger’s election reporting have been subdued by management, COVID, and termination of several of the reporters, as part of the general disimployment of local reporters everywhere. It isn’t quite the Seattle Times, but it isn’t the old Stranger either.
Raven Onthill
The Washington Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction on SB 5395/R90:
I think the objection from the religious right is that girls will be taught about consent, and there’s a lot of nasty right-wing Christians who don’t want that: if girls learn about consent, they might question the authority of men.
Hope it passes.
Chris T.
Those are good questions.
Note that there is a Washington State Investment Board already. Would they handle it? (I suspect the answer is yes, but I don’t know.)
Overall I think this is probably a good idea and am tentatively planning to vote for it, but I need to read more about it.