Trump broke the debates. According to The Post, the Commission on Presidential Debates issued a statement announcing that it would consider format changes to prevent President Bananapants from smearing poop on the walls during the upcoming debate in Miami. (I’m paraphrasing!)
“Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues. The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.”
Perhaps a retractable Cone of Silence? A Super Soaker so the moderator can spray him in the face the way some people squirt water at cats to keep them off the kitchen counters? A trap door and pedestal rig so Trump can be lowered into an isolation tank and raised back up when it’s his turn to speak?
Meanwhile, Republican allies know how bad this was, even if they’re pretending otherwise in the Fox News ecosystem. From The Beast:
According to advisers close to the president, the act was not purely impulsive, but strategic—born out of a strategy that sought to confuse and confound Biden with the ultimate goal of getting the former vice president to stumble and lose his train of thought.
That strategy might have been effective if Trump had allowed Biden to speak more than two sentences in a row without boorishly cutting him off. Seriously, how fucking stupid is this damp, raging Circus Peanut?
But in the aftermath of the carnage, even some of the president’s own boosters couldn’t help but concede that he had spent an hour and a half acting like a feral animal.
“I think on the Trump side, it was too hot,” former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, who had done debate prep with Trump leading up to Tuesday, said on ABC. “Listen, you come in and decide you want to be aggressive and that was the right thing, to be aggressive. But that was too hot.”
Reached for comment late Tuesday night, Ed Rollins, a veteran GOP strategist who fronts the pro-Trump group Great America PAC, simply responded, “Wow. I have seen nothing like this ever. Don’t want to comment any further.” Asked if the president did a good job or not, Rollins would only reply, “No comment.”
“Too hot.” A prediction: they’ll over-adjust the meds, and Trump will slur somnolently though the Miami debate. The toddler gates the Commission on Presidential Debates puts up won’t even be necessary.
My guess is ratings will be WAY down for the next debate after last night’s unwatchable calamity, so Trump probably blew his best chance to shake things up…in a way that is positive for his campaign.
Also, I don’t know how reliable the Daily Mail is, but according to that outlet, Brad Parscale’s meltdown is related to an investigation into the theft of $40M from the Trump campaign and $10M from the RNC. So there’s that scandal to look forward to in the waning weeks of the campaign.
Folks, meet Trump’s past 3 Campaign Managers: Parscale, Manafort, Bannon. pic.twitter.com/UOGPdjkL31
— RuralLiberal (@HiraethResists) September 28, 2020
Notice a pattern? Trump is a clown, as Biden rightly called him last night, and Trump surrounds himself with grifting clowns, including the ones that sprang from his grotesque loins. The clowns are trying to steal the election, but as Biden said, we have the power to stop them:
Show up and vote. You will determine the outcome of this election. Vote, vote, vote. If you’re able to vote early in your state, vote early. If you’re able to vote in person, vote in person. Vote whatever way is the best way for you, because you will… He cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election. And in terms of whether or not… When the votes are counted and they’re all counted, that will be accepted. If I win, that will be accepted. If I lose, that’ll be accepted. But by the way, if in fact he says, he’s not sure what he’s going to accept. Well, let me tell you something, it doesn’t matter, because if we get the votes, it’s going to be all over. He’s going to go. He can’t stay in power. It won’t happen. It won’t happen, so vote. Just make sure you understand, you have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. Is it going to change, or are you going to get four more years of these lies?
I’m glad he said that. It was important. Open thread.
mali muso
Woohoo! Just finished my first batch of postcards to voters. My hand hurts (I hold my pen rather wonky, so careful writing is a chore) but I feel great! Now off to pop them in the mailbox.
Raoul Paste
Well I like the trapdoor idea, but I guess that is too much like an Idiocracy
Cheryl Rofer
Daily Mail is not reliable, but the story is not unbelievable.
Gin & Tonic
Noted this yesterday, I think. My 96-y.o. MIL received her ballot Monday, and made a point of having it in the outgoing mail on Tuesday. Reportedly she was laughing out loud during the debate last night (yeah, yeah, not with Trump, at Trump.)
Elizabelle
Cut the microphone, yes, but I foresee a place for a cattle prod under Trump’s podium, too. (I wish Biden could control it!)
Vote, vote, vote, indeed.
@mali muso: Yea you! Makes a difference.
H.E.Wolf
Yes, vote – and also, help out.
WaterGirl has created a great list in the sidebar; there’s bound to be something there for any taste.
And as usual I’m going to mention http://PostcardsToVoters.org . It has been well-suited to my introverted and dilatory style. :)
Once a person is signed up (sometimes a couple days’ wait, if there’s a queue), it’s possible to write as few as 4 cards at a time, over the space of 3 days.
dmsilev
All worthy suggestions. I imagine the Commission will sadly be more conventional in their approach, cutting off microphones and similar. No stun guns, vaudevillesque giant hooks, or Academy Awards thank you speech swelling orchestral music.
randy khan
I’ve shared the video of Biden talking about voting on social media. It’s really good, and I’d recommend that everyone who is on social media do the same.
It’s clearly a set piece that he had planned, but all that means is that he and his team thought it was important, and they were right.
Montanareddog
I was thinking of a straitjacket and a Hannibal Lector type-mask, with a mouth opening that can be closed and opened remotely by the moderator.
Marcopolo
As I noted in the last thread, I voted this morning in MO. Eight folks (of the dozen I’ve been nagging) in my circle have now voted here. Also reupping the NC poll that dropped about an hour ago. If we keep seeing numbers like this through Nov. 3 we will all either be happily asleep or happily drunk by ~10 pm EST.
Not that Biden will win SC but if he is around even in SC then he is probably winning NC & FL by a couple or three
My favorite get out the vote message courtesy John Lewis:
JPL
Susan Collins said both sides were to blame for the debacle last night. bless her little heart.
dmsilev
@JPL: I’m sure she was very concerned.
FlyingToaster
Alas, since each of the campaigns have to sign off on the changes, I don’t imagine that the Trump campaign will agree to any debate that allows his mic to be cut off.
Brachiator
The irony, of course, is that the political parties seized control of the debates from organizations like the League of Women Voters because they wanted to make sure that their candidates looked good.
How’s that working out for the GOP?
Yep, yep, yep.
ETA: I was listening to a local talk radio host clearly criticize Trump for the first time. But he also noted that his 18 year old daughter and her friends watched some of the debate and laughed at both candidates. They don’t think that the election or politics has anything to do with them. It’s “adult stuff.” They are more interested in parties and college life.
I also read this as maybe a sly attempt at voter suppression. This guy may hope that more Democrats than Republicans stay home and not vote, even as he acknowledges that Trump is looking very bad.
clay
@JPL: I assume without googling it that you are being satirical, because surely Collins isn’t THAT much of a self-parody?
Baud
I like that Biden speech as well. I thought it was very important to say.
Don’t make the Commission on Presidential Debates angry. You wouldn’t like them when they’re angry.
MattF
I didn’t watch it– hypertension, yadda-yadda. But based on reports, Trump had a strategy– make Biden lose track of what was going on and look weak– but that floundered in the face of Trump’s non-negotiable need to control the ‘discussion’, to be the only story. And, FWIW, I think the ‘Proud Boys’ episode has been misunderstood. Trump simply wasn’t going to do what Wallace wanted him to. Period. It’s conceivable that Trump was making various higher-dimensional dogwhistles, but it’s far more likely that he read Wallace’s question as an insult and responded by being an asshole.
Baud
@Brachiator:
It is why the young historical have the worst turnout numbers of every age group.
Brachiator
@Baud:
They have to prove that they are Hulk strong.
I also expect Trump to keep acting the fool. We will see what he says during his next ego-boosting therapy sessions, uh, I mean, campaign rallies, for a possible preview.
hueyplong
@clay: I don’t know, it’s difficult to lose money shorting Collins credibility stock.
MattF
@Baud: Also, looking back at my own politically uninvolved youth, politicians rarely state effective policies for getting their voters high and/or laid.
Baud
@MattF:
The problem for Trump is asymmetry. Biden can easily condemn all violence. But Biden’s not going to condemn anti-fascism or black lives.
Trump has to not only condemn violence, but the violence on his side — fascism, white supremacy — is morally condemnable even if the those groups promoted their agenda peacefully. That’s what Trump really doesn’t want to deal with.
Geoboy
Given how many Senate races are so close, don’t overlook the potential exponential effect of the discouraged Trump voter. If even a couple percent of them decide it’s not worth the trouble to get out and vote because they know in their hearts that he’s blown it, that could conceivably deliver two to five more Senate seats into the Democratic column. That in turn means that somebody to the left of Joe Manchin gets to decide how far we can go.
Disclaimer – Joe has almost always been good when we need him, which takes a lot of courage given where he represents, and we’re not going to get anybody better out of West Virginia in the next few years. I appreciate all he’s done, but I don’t want him to be our bright line in the sand for the next few years (and I bet he’d be relieved to be able to deliver a couple of meaningless thumbs down votes).
Baud
@MattF: Noted for Baud! 2028!
Juju
I’d recommend a three strikes rule, with a trapdoor that opens on the fourth offense.
Brachiator
@Baud:
They don’t think that the election or politics has anything to do with them. It’s “adult stuff.” They are more interested in parties and college life.
True. But historical patterns are not destiny. Younger voters turn out when motivated by specific issues or concerns. From a Forbes article.
And looking at the larger historical trend.
We have to keep hitting the get out the vote effort.
WaterGirl
@H.E.Wolf: Did you see that I added a link called “State of the Race”? To the site that you like so much?
I checked it out, it really does seem to be a great site for people like me who want to do sort of one stop shopping for polls and election status information.
Ken
An insult to feral animals, who don’t have the intelligence to choose how they behave.(Arguably that’s also Trump’s problem.)
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
Baud
@Brachiator: Well, sure. Youth turnout fluctuates like all voter turnout fluctuates. But last I checked, youth turnout has always been less than the turnout of older age groups. Obviously, we hope youth turnout is high this year because that helps us, but I would be surprised if this is the year they pass their older cohorts in turnout percentage.
jonas
@MattF:
Wallace: “I would like now to give you an opportunity to clearly denounce white supremacist groups…”
Trump: “Go fuck yourself.”
Ken
Definitely a niche that the Baud campaign can exploit.
I recall a science-fiction story where the 18-24 cohort did nothing but have children, because young genes are healthier. The kids were raised by older, trained adults (also eliminating the “lucky sperm club” we currently suffer under).
WaterGirl
@Marcopolo: If you’ve voted, you can add a comment in the I Voted! thread that in the sidebar. I have an infinite amount of stickers that can be handed out. :-)
Brachiator
@MattF:
Has Biden mentioned that he favors legalizing cannabis?
ETA: I freely admit that during my late high school and early college years, my participation in some campaign efforts were amplified because some beautiful young women were also participants.
But also during the 60s and 70s there was also something in the air. Not just a cloud of smoke from weed, but a feeling that young people could make a difference in politics. But I also knew some children of the so-called Silent Majority, who felt confused and threatened by the spirit of change around them.
WaterGirl
@JPL: She is like a caricature of her caricature at this point. She appears not to be embarrassed. Yikes.
rjnerd
A game show soundproof booth, and a mute switch, but Трумп would never agree. So a change in moderator, either a teacher of K-3, or a comic that honed their craft in the diviest of comedy clubs, and allowed to treat Трумп as they would any other drunken heckler.
Brachiator
@Baud:
This is probably true. But the yoots don’t have to vote in larger numbers than other, older groups. They just have to turn out in larger numbers than previously.
Ohio Mom
Thinking about the debate most of today, the moments of the debate when Biden broke through the fourth wall and spoke directly to us were very noteworthy.
It showed he is creative and resourceful in his problem-solving, finding a way to bypass Trump and Wallace who were preventing him from sharing some of his most important thoughts. It showed he is well-educated and cultured, because he had the idea of breaking the fourth wall in his vocabulary.
It showed that he thinks we everyday Americans are the most important audience, not the men he shared the stage with or the pre-selected, silent in-house audience.
And it was a bit of a wink to the idea that the debates are indeed theater, and must be taken with a grain of salt. They aren’t real life, and Joe wants to share that with us.
I’m glad I endured the rest of that (as one talking head described it) shit show for those moments.
bemused
Betty, I love the way you paraphrase. Cheers me right up.
jonas
@Baud: Yep — telling pollsters you “plan” to vote, and actually registering and getting your butt to the polling place on election day are often separated by a wide gulf with younger voters.
jl
As I noted in the previous thread, cutting off Commander in Chief and Dear Leader Trump’s mic under any circumstance whatsoever is clearly treasonous and constitutes insurrection. Trump will attempt to enveigle the military to stand by, perhaps take over the studio in case of such a sinister betrayal of the nation.
Even worse, it would unfair to Trump.
jl
@jonas: Getting the youth vote higher, rather than achieving some standard of high, might make a big difference.
OTOH, an explicit pitch that the Dems want the youth vote ‘high’ might be, finally, and effective pitch. As long as they get rides to the polling place.
jl
@jl: inveigle
James E Powell
Various “news” organizations are shouting about “66% of Spanish speaking Telemundo viewers say Trump won the debate!”
It was a twitter poll. “It’s not scientific but isn’t it amazing?” I hate all of them.
catclub
@jl: was he a senator from Connecticut?
Cheryl Rofer
The Biden people got enough good clips to summarize the debate –
bluehill
@James E Powell: Thought I saw some poll or article that said Trump was holding on to a surprisingly high number of his Hispanic voters from 2016. I don’t understand it, but then again I don’t understand Tim Scott either. Actually with Tim Scott, I kind of get it because he’s making money.
MisterForkbeard
@James E Powell: New orgs need clicks. They’re going to post stupid, risible bullshit.
Source: See the entire 2016 election.
gwangung
@Brachiator: Presidential election years seem to get the youth vote to about 45%+.
If we get it to that this year, or better, then the Dems are in good shape.
The KEY year, though, is 2022. Simply…they cannot allow the vote percentage to match the abysmal 20% of 2010.
rk
Perhaps a retractable Cone of Silence? A Super Soaker so the moderator can spray him in the face the way some people squirt water at cats to keep them off the kitchen counters? A trap door and pedestal rig so Trump can be lowered into an isolation tank and raised back up when it’s his turn to speak?
A bullet to the head if he opens his mouth out of turn. Yes I’m so done with him and I didn’t even watch the debate
And yes a rubber bullet.
Ken
@Cheryl Rofer: Between that and the t-shirts, we should see more Trump campaign complaints about the “suspicious” speed of the Biden response. They don’t recognize that where they say “suspicious” they actually mean “minimally competent”.
jl
@catclub: It was Senator Snort’s nickname. Everyone knows that, bigly.
PJ
Slightly OT: The ActBlue contribution counter is now at $6,875,000,000 (since 2004). It was at 6,600,000,000 just ten days ago. I would bet it’s at $7 billion by the end of the weekend. That’s $400 million dollars raised in two weeks.
Money ≠ votes, but it sure helps, and this makes me feel better about how things will go down on Nov. 3. (Though not about the inevitable voter suppression and attempts to delegitimize the vote after the election.)
jonas
@Cheryl Rofer: Yeah, the campaign and the RNC both issued pretty unequivocal denials that Parscale was being “investigated” for anything — which doesn’t mean a whole lot coming from those folks. But it will be interesting to see if any other outlets talk to the same sources and confirm or debunk the story. I have a hard time believing that the campaign could burn through as much money as it has — with so little to show for it — and not have to do something to placate furious donors. No audits or investigations at all? Really? Maybe their donors are just oddly sanguine about all this.
Nicole
I was a poll volunteer as a teenager, I will have you all know. And registered to vote at 18.
On the other hand, I had nothing else to do, as I was also spectacularly unsuccessful at getting high or getting laid. So, I may see the Young People’s point.
cope
I have a USPS account that shows me every morning what mail we are getting that day (well, most of the mail). I’m like a kid every morning waiting to see if our ballots will be here. From what my county elections office told me, that will be any day. Then, on October 19th (first day of early voting for us), I can take them to our voting place and drop them in the assigned “vote by mail” collection box. I can’t wait, I can’t wait…
jonas
@bluehill: If it’s the poll you’re talking about, iirc, it was mostly of Cubans in Florida, a reliable GOP bloc, not Hispanics nationwide. I don’t believe Trump has *ever* polled higher than single digits among African Americans, sometimes so low as to be w/in the margin of error.
Mike in NC
Looking at the photos in the Daily Mail, it appears among the many things Parscale splurged on were a huge set of fake boobs for his wife. Something Trump would probably compliment him for back in the day.
featheredsprite
I tried to watch the debate but had to bail out early. I went to bed, depressed because I feared that I had grown too old and naive to follow politics. This morning I has pleased to see that the rest of the country was upset too. Even Fox News.
JPL
@clay: Yes she did.
Jinchi
Brad Parscale, self-sacrificing member of the Resistance.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: They could go with a ball gag.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Nicole: Yeah the first election I was old enough to vote in I phone banked for the Dukakis campaign in Grand Rapids, MI. Boy was that discouraging.
cain
@Brachiator:
Mr. McGee is the reporter we need today.
Ken
I said in an earlier thread that the campaign doesn’t want a real audit because Parscale wasn’t the only one grifting. That doesn’t preclude other methods of fixing the problem. We’ll know if Parscale, while in custody under the Baker Act, mysteriously commits suicide by throwing himself backward off the roof of the building onto some bullets while drinking a Novichok cocktail.
bluehill
@jonas: Here’s one article.
Hoodie
I’m kind of surprised how many effective moments Biden’s campaign was able to extract out of that mess. Joe has been pretty solidly on message since early in the campaign, maybe he picked that up from Obama’s zen-like discipline.
In other new, youngest son at school in Colorado got his NC absentee ballot! It’s his first election, I’m so glad he gets to participate.
jl
@Nicole: Me too. The cranky but cheerful lady who ran our precincts didn’t pay much attention if we youngins moseyed up to the beer on tap during the election night party.
DCrefugee
In an earlier life, I happened to have Ed Rollins on a program the day following the ’92 VP debate between Dan Quayle and Al Gore. Paraphrasing, he privately said “you’ve just seen Dan Quayle’s last major public appearance, except for charity golf tournaments.”
Yeah, he’s been around the GOP side of things a lot, but he’s lost a step since then. One more GOP daddy goes grey
Baud
@featheredsprite:
Reddit has a compendium of cable news pundit reactions. It’s actually kind of amusing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/j2n8u5/watch_some_news_channels_reacting_to_the_debate/
H.E.Wolf
Woohoo!! Hello from another member of the aching-hand society. I do lots of hand stretches and pace myself with the writing… and I keep this man in mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara
May his memory be a blessing.
cain
@Brachiator:
He’s got no choice there. The industry is growing like hotcakes. Once it is legal federally, big pharma is probably poised to start doing buy outs.
The only reason cannabis is a schedule a drug is because of racism.
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: A full Hannibal Lecter setup would also be acceptable.
jl
@bluehill: ‘about 30% of Latinos have voted for the Republican Party consistently over the past 50 years’
I did not know that. Interesting that 30% wasn’t enough for the GOP, so they turned on Hispanics, excepting Cubans.
danielx
@MattF:
I for one would have paid a lot more attention.
Baud
@bluehill:
I hope it doesn’t increase, but those numbers mean Latino voters are right at the crazification factor. It only seems extraordinarily high because black voters are so amazing.
jl
@cain: I worked part time for a nursery (garden nursery, not a kid nursery) during college. The wanted dope legal, said they expected it’d be a damn profitable line of business, selling the plants.
MattF
Alexandra Petri has some suggestions for new debate rules.
H.E.Wolf
Wow! Thank you! I hadn’t seen that, so I’m very glad you mentioned it. The credit goes to my partner, who’s been reading http://electoral-vote.com for years, and who convinced me to check it out.
danielx
@Brachiator:
There were also..
As with the latter, it will be hard to keep up the intensity IF we win this time around. Even though the stakes are much higher in many ways.
jl
Get Smart – Cone of Silence (from episode 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1eUIK9CihA&pp=QAA%3D
Bluegirlfromwyo
@bluehill: My Mexican American cousin was one of these Hispanics. He thought that because he came here legally (adopted as a young child) and spoke only English that he was better and would be treated better than “the illegals.” Oh, and he hated welfare except for his deserving seven daughters from seven mommas. He passed in 2015 but I have no doubt he’d be a full-throated Trumpist had he lived.
What can I say, you can’t pick your relatives.
catclub
inshallah!
NotMax
Keep it simple with something off the shelf.
An air horn.
;)
mali muso
@H.E.Wolf: I have to thank you for the reminder about postcardstovoters.org last week because while I had been intending to do this for a long time, you caught me at the right moment and I clicked through to sign up. Just got verified yesterday afternoon. :)
Geminid
I thought Biden’s explaination of his climate agenda was a good, positive argument. Framing the issue as an opportunity for economic growth is a sound tactic. It was imperfect, but I think he can and will express it better. Much is made of the label “Green New Deal,” exemplified for many by the bill presented by Markey and Ocasio-Cortez inMarch 2019. But they hardly own the copyright; Tom Friedman called for a “Green New Deal” back in 2007, and others have promoted it since. Whatever it’s called, the transition to renewable energy is an idea whose time has come, and I hope Biden and other Democrats push it.
Lyrebird
Okay I can’t take much in right now,
lots of little mini crises at home and at work,
so I need absurdity. Maybe just stupidity.
Eric Trump supposedly just bothered to state that he’s not gay. My closest friends who are gay live far from me, so I will just leave this thought here. I read that headline and imagined gay men all over the country collectively saying “yeah thank goodness!”
StringOnAStick
@bluehill: There was a newly inducted American citizen running a lab department where I went to school 14 years ago, she was from Argentina. She hated illegal immigrants with a passion. I suspect she voted R.
A Ghost to Most
@Hoodie:
Interesting. CO ballots go out on Oct. 9.
prostratedragon
Who needs a pedestal?
I mailed off my ballot the other day and have been tracking the scans courtesy of the Election Commission. Was planning to drop the ballot at a dropbox, but my faith was strengthened when it arrived to me on schedule, and downstairs (to the letter drop in the lobby) beat out downtown. I do wonder at the last return scan being at Bedford Park, when I am in Grand Boulevard and the thing is going to 69 W. Washington St.
Writing neatly legible postcards is surprisingly tiring at first, since I don’t write in longhand much these days, but I’ve got some done and will proudly do some more.
LuciaMia
“Trump”, “Hot”. Too words that should never appear together.
misterpuff
I tend to agree with analysis but basically Trump lucked into what he wanted to do anyway. Link that staement about voters going to the polls to see what Dem fuckery was happening (in his and their minds), he GishGalloped from Condemning White Extremism to ordering his HawaiianShirts to patrol voting sites. And that was a win for him but unfortunately done in plain sight on a National stage.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Wow. That was impressive and gave me hope.
Cheryl Rofer
Jeffro
And what, national snooze media, does THAT say about what trumpov has to offer the American people??? Could we maybe look into this a little further?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MattF: Sure explains why some conservative commentators were complaining Trump failed on the biggest softball question in political history.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Shock collars.
The moderator gets one controller for each candidate, Melania gets one for Trump and Jill gets one for Biden. Each time a candidate utters anything during the other’s time or goes over, the moderator pounds the button. The wives get to pound the button whenever they want.
When there are 4 minutes left, the wives get to exchange controllers.
I’d watch the shit out of that.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Cheryl Rofer: Biden is going to walk on stage at the next debate with a t-shirt on saying “I’m with stupid”, isn’t he?
Matt McIrvin
Now seeing lots of takes coming out trying to game the refs and claiming Trump really won the debate–I think Sean Hannity was the only person saying that yesterday.
catclub
I would not have guessed this: 29M versus 43M
PPCLI
@JPL: Did she suggest that Biden was at fault for Trump snarling out an attack about Hunter Biden’s struggles with drugs?
Or that Biden was to blame for Trump giving a “stand ready” command to a collection of anti-Semitic white supremacists?
Or did the lazy journalist just let her slide on that…
Philbert
If the youth turnout goes up 2016-2020 equivalent to 2014-2018, it could make a big difference.
feebog
I suggest a nun with experience teaching 2nd grade and a sturdy ruler.
debbie
Someone has got to create a circus peanut emoji !
Soprano2
@Ohio Mom: I really noticed that Biden kept looking directly at the camera, because he knew he was speaking more to all the people out there in America than he was to Trump, Wallace, or the people in the hall. I thought it was pretty smart, and was surprised Trump didn’t do it more, since he’s been on TV a lot and should understand how that works.
MCA1
@Marcopolo: Given that Dotard won SC by 15 points in ’16, I’d say that if Biden runs close to even there he wins FL and NC by substantial margins. Clinton lost Florida by barely over one percent, and North Carolina by 3.5. If there’s a 10 point swing in those two states (2/3 of the SC swing represented in that Quin. poll), they’re both Biden blowouts.
All that said, I think this one needs to be treated as an outlier for the moment. If it’s accurate, it would be the equivalent of a poll indicating it’s a dead heat in Washington State on the other side of things, so pretty shocking. Even so, if Trump’s support erodes in South Carolina by even 6 or 7 points, that would indicate probable comfortable Biden margins in those other two states. And it would mean Georgia’s neck and neck and Texas is likely competitive. Not to mention that Lindsay Graham’s in a world of trouble.
Baud
@catclub: No one wants to watch Trump.
A Ghost to Most
@catclub: Many people decided to save their tv sets.
bluehill
@Bluegirlfromwyo:
@StringOnAStick: Yeah I don’t understand it. I guess if you’re trying to hard to fit in and become an “American” maybe it skews your perspective. IANApsychologist.
debbie
Almost everything on NPR today was about the debates. I wasn’t always listening really closely, but I didn’t hear anyone actually assert Trump had won. The conservative pundits I heard did not like his strategy and did not think Trump had helped himself in any way.
catclub
@Baud: or, now they are VERY tired of watching Trump.
MattF
@Matt McIrvin: I’d assume Lou Dobbs had the same view.
H.E.Wolf
@mali muso:
:)
Thank you – that warms my heart and makes my hand ache less!
debbie
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
The Daily Show posted a meme on FB this morning that I know you’d approve of. The muzzle wasn’t close enough to Hannibal Lector’s for my taste, but it would be effective.
Yutsano
@bemused: Honestly, she is probably foul-mouthed enough that we could loan her out to Wonkette for a guest post or two. But we’re keeping her.
Also: dammit California we need to keep Katie Porter in the House! DougJ gonna need a thermometer for her.
H.E.Wolf
Oh my gosh, yes. Not to mention my regret at not owning stock in a White-out company.
Sometimes I draw patriotic little stars to cover my typos. There have been some very patriotic postcards sent out….
Bluegirlfromwyo
@catclub: I think people have lost interest. There was some stat on a thread yesterday that 75 percent of debate watchers were going to watch just to see how their candidate did? You’d think most of us here would be in that number but my guess is half of us sat it out because we’ve lost interest in Trump and his bullshit. Imagine how much the normies (love that word) have lost interest.
People are tired of all of this. Hopefully that brings down Trump and his enablers with him.
cain
@jl:
30% of latinos that can pass for white.
trnc
I was really hoping for debate by combat with either Clegane standing in for Joe, but I guess the High Sparrow just doesn’t allow that anymore.
James E Powell
@catclub:
That’s a huge drop, but I wonder if there is some way to account for viewership by others means. Was it on youtube or any other internet source.
Other theories: People know who they are voting for and they do not need any more information? Democrats cannot stand to watch Trump at all? Yankees in the playoffs?
Benw
@Ken: LOL! If $40M’s missing from the Trump campaign, then it’s the Trumps that took it, and they’re blaming that asshole, who probably stole some much smaller amount. Those jerks project more than an IMAX.
cain
@jl:
It’s going to happen – there is too much money to be made. But once it is legal consolidation is going to happen. What we need to watch out for is artificial scarcity. But there is definitely going to be a lot of designer cannabis by companies like Monsanto and probably the same kind of war they will do like they do with corn.
jl
@MCA1: Harrison has said in interviews that health care is big, and environment, including global warming getting bigger in SC. Environment issue big because of importance of coastline for economy and local culture, and people are noticing the problems. Also, SC really got left behind in covid economic aid (oops, Sen Graham, that kind of negligence really leaves a big big mark, bigly).
SC probably too much of lift. But if that is a guide to gettable Southern states, it’s a good sign. One way to beat Trump’s election day chaos plan is to do big in states that allow ample early in-person voting and either start processing or counting mail votes before election day. That include AZ, FL, NC, OH. Harder to mess with early votes that are in the bag, mail votes that have been verified and ready to count before or on election day.
bluehill
Josh Marshall at TPM with a take that, unfortunately, does not seem hyperbolic. The rest of the repubs are all in. It’s hard to imagine anything that Trump could do to cause them turn away from him.
HumboldtBlue
The Daily Mail is a tabloid and any reporting they do must be triple-checked.
Vanity Fair has a story on the concerns of the Trumps Parscale will talk.
jl
@bluehill: As per my previous comment, early voting, in person and by mail in states that start processing and counting them before election day is a good insurance policy. Makes Trump’s plan to have his fixed SCOTUS take a look at the votes much harder. Dems can win several of those states with good GOTV. Then, as Biden said, it’s out of Trump and Trumpster hands.
andy
@Brachiator: The Leader will be stopping at the Duluth airport this evening and we’ll soon see. Perfect weather, too…
PJ
@catclub: More people are watching on streaming. I don’t know where you would find those numbers.
jl
@andy: If the debate commission really wanted to put the fix in, they wouldn’t go with cutting the mics, or cone of silence. I think a warning bell that goes, ‘ding-dong’ with just the right intonation would drive Trump nuts.
James E Powell
@jl:
For the last 14+ years my students have been more than 90% Hispanic and about 90% of that Mexican by birth or identity. Some from families that have lived in southern California for generations, some that barely got here. Almost all are Roman Catholic and those who are not tend to be evangelicals.
Within that large diverse group there is a significant percentage who are – except for language, food, and soccer – culturally indistinguishable from your ordinary, average American redneck.
eric
@bluehill: we can hope…..oh, he was metaphorical
eric
@H.E.Wolf: go there and read about the fox data guru and the calling of the election. very interesting piece.
smintheus
Trump is going to love his own performance, and he’s going to hate any advisers who dare to suggest he needs to stop doing the bullying asshole thing Trump loves to do. So Trump is likely to push aside anybody who offers semi-decent advice, and embrace more closely the worst lickspittles and fools. Because character is destiny.
Yutsano
@cain:
Corrected. Most of the elite in Mexico (and other South American countries) pride themselves on being directly descended from Castillian bloodlines. A lot of the muti-generation families that live in the Southwest have adopted that mind set. They get disgusted at getting lumped in with “those others” who comes from the mestizo or even pure Native bloodlines, which is most of Mexico these days. And some are just low-tax small businessmen who vote Republican for the same reasons other republicans do.
jl
@James E Powell: Thanks. For some reason, I had forgotten about Christian Evangelical Hispanics. Very few of them where I grew up in Central Valley farm country, but enough that I know they look at things differently from most of the community, at least in CA.
jl
@smintheus: I read even Christie thinks Trump was a little too, let us say, aggressive last night.
So, that means it’s just Rudy helping Trump prep for the townhall? Should be fun.
prostratedragon
@H.E.Wolf: “Sometimes I draw patriotic little stars to cover my typos. There have been some very patriotic postcards sent out….”
I have to remember that technique! Could really need it if I’m going to pick up my output level.
Ken
@Cheryl Rofer: Maybe it’s just me, but lately every time Trump holds a campaign event, the Democrats report a huge number of volunteers or donations (or both) exactly coinciding with his appearance. So by all means, please proceed.
I’d almost wish he keeps it up after January, especially since the rest of the Republicans will writhe in agony every time, but all-in-all I’d prefer that he disappear into the justice system.
jc
Biden needs to say next time: how can I debate a guy who constantly lies, misrepresents almost every issue and has zero credibility? Why *are* you running for re-election, Donald? You clearly only care about your extremely conservative base. You don’t want to represent the US of A. It couldn’t be more clear.
Calouste
@catclub: Wondering how much of that is an effect of people moving away from cable tv to other sources. Most of the content that is on tv is only on that particular source, but you could easily follow the debate online. I don’t think it explains most of the difference though, that will be because people already have made up their mind and don’t won’t to watch the shitgibbon fling poo.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
A lot of voters focus on tone.
mrmoshpotato
Everybody knows that the bird is the word, you bastards!
Matt McIrvin
@MCA1: Most polls in SC seem to have Trump up by anywhere from 5 to 10 points. Definitely not 15, so that’s some indication of the state of the race.
Matt McIrvin
@catclub: As I said, my wife tried to watch and turned it off after a few minutes because it was so intensely unpleasant and scary.
Uncle Cosmo
“Sister Sadistica holding on the penguin-decorated courtesy phone,” Tom said parochially.
bluehill
@jl: I think the concern is whether he will concede peacefully even if he loses all 50 states. He doesn’t care about the law or norms and he doesn’t think the rules apply to him.
He’s upended the government because he was willing to do things that none of his predecessors would have dared tried even if they wanted too out of fear of the consequences. So far, Trump has shown there are no consequences of significance. Thanks, Mitch.
Literally, what is the process if the loser of the election refuses to leave? It seems ridiculous to even ask, but here we are. It’s not just Trump, it’s his entire administration and lackeys he’s installed throughout the government.
Of course, I’m skeptical/paranoid based on three years of inaction and the accelerating slide down the slippery slope to fascism.
Gravenstone
@rk:
Hey, he’s cool with reporters being shot by them. Maybe it would be instructive for him to experience that thrill first hand.
mrmoshpotato
@mrmoshpotato: “I get called a fat t**t every time I walk past,” Nichols complained.
Dmbeaster
@MattF: I disagree. His behavior was trying first to dodge, but then he is very definitive with his stand down stand by message. It sounded like a standard militia call to arms which he has been previously exposed to. They use coded phrasing to disguise their intent. He is clearing planning on using this element, and did not want to undercut their motivation. He clearly made the decision to call them to arms, just not now, and then pivoted that somebody has to take care of antifa.
I think you got a dess rehearsal of what he actually intends, which he preferred to conceal, but forced into undercutting his allies or motivating them, he opted for the latter.
Ken
Not even as “Things are getting hot for former President Trump as a barrage of indictments from state attorneys general continues…”?
jayjaybear
@Lyrebird: He’s backtracking a misspeak he committed.
https://www.10tv.com/article/news/nation-world/eric-trump-lgbt-community-fox-news/507-2482f665-3ff0-4269-861b-190d41bb7ec2
Dmbeaster
@bluehill: What makes it truly scary is the willing complicity of so many Republicans. That makes his planned coup a real risk.
Sloane Ranger
Ye Gods! If I wasn’t seeing it, I wouldn’t believe it Watching the Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer. He’s interviewing Bob Woodward and, for once, it’s Blitzer who sounds like the tough minded realist and Woodward who sounds like some naive bipartisan fantasist. Woodward’s wittering on about how the US is teetering on the edge of a precipice and how Turtle, Schumer, Pelosi and McCarthy should get together and do something and it’s Blitzer pointedly asking what that should be and why would they agree to do it when they can’t agree on anything else.
Woodward sounds thoroughly shell-shocked. It’s like he’s suddenly realised this isn’t a game, democracy really is under threat.
jl
@bluehill: Get the electoral votes counted, or at least keep it out of the House process, and Trump can leave or stay, it makes no difference. If executive branch agency career people have legal cover to ignore Trumpster flunkies and obey Biden people arriving on the scene, then they will.
If Dems take the Senate, then Congress can throw roadblocks starting early January. And also, no rule against impeaching a lame duck president, since we’ll have the House.
bluehill
@Dmbeaster:
@Sloane Ranger: This is kind of what I was trying to get at. There’s no precedent for what’s happening now in the U.S. so there was no need to ask these questions and no preventive steps put in place. Right now, the “law” increasingly seems to be whoever has the power.
I picked a bad time to give up <insert unhealthy vice here>.
West of the Rockies
Shutting Trump up in the next debate… Hmmm. How about having his wee little dinky in a box; he speaks out of turn, WHAM! A New York wharf rat gains entrance and chomps on his johnson.
gene108
@cain:
They are white. There are plenty of people in Mexico, the Caribbean, Central, and South America with predominantly Spanish ancestry.
There’s some strange bias in this country to lump everyone from Latin America into the same bucket, whether they are white, black, or brown.
Lyrebird
@jayjaybear: Ah, thanks for clarifying.
mrmoshpotato
@West of the Rockies: That’s a bit much, and I loathe the Soviet shitpile mobster conman who wrecking our government.
West of the Rockies
@mrmoshpotato:
Softie.
J R in WV
@MattF:
While this is true of explicit political platforms, I discovered very soon after reaching college that the very liberal activist hippy chicks were often as horny as I was.
Perhaps the Young Republican women were too, but I didn’t care to know about them. Evil is as evil does.
KenK
@Juju: I’d recommend a three strikes rule, with a trapdoor that opens on the fourth offense.
Short debate, then? ;)
Shana
@mali muso: I’ve been doing postcards too. FYI: don’t buy postcard stamps at the automated machine at USPS. You get individual stamps and have to cut off the extra bit along the line where it says “fold here” because the extra half would fold over to the front of the postcard and obscure the printing.
Don’t ask how many stamps I had to cut.
cain
So one could almost say the same thing about Indians some who can also pass for white but they have a greater Aryan bloodlines.. the darker people well they aren’t treated as nice. I have for instance have a lot more Aryan blood which gets me in good with white people as my features as similar to them other than many shades of skin darker.
But I’m quite aware that my features gives me more privileges than say those who have more Dravidian blood in them.
J R in WV
@eric:
That was an amazing bit of video, Rove was still talking about Ohio was going to break for the Republicans, and the on-air talent grabbed a camera man and walked down a twisty maze of little passageways, all alike. Then they showed the stats from the data guy.
Wife is acquainted with data guru, conservative journalist, but honest math stats geek. Rove was wrong… perhaps he expected a big flip from shenanigans? But that must have fallen through.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@J R in WV: Accessing the freaky side of an otherwise staid and naive young woman is one of life’s great pleasures, is what I’m sayin’.
Kathleen
@Ohio Mom: I read a column in WaPo by Matt Bai who made the same point you did about Biden breaking the fourth wall. His opinion, however, was that Biden was targeting reluctant Trump voters and Independents. He also said that while conventional wisdom maintains Trump is the ultimate showman, Biden slyly and stealthily stole the show.
Matt McIrvin
@bluehill: The American precedent is the end of Reconstruction and the imposition of Jim Crow rule in the South. Only nationwide.
Mary G
@James E Powell: Yes, I know a number of Hispanic men who came legally in the 80s and did well financially without much education. They hate illegal immigrants, taxes, feminism, and the other usual suspects that MAGAts despise as much as any white guy. Several own boats and are disappointed a big Trump boat parade did not materialize here.
H.E.Wolf
@eric:
Thanks, and no worries about that – I go there early every morning and read their day’s output while everyone else is over here commenting at Balloon Juice. Yet another reason why I’m perennially late to the party on this blog. :)
Kathleen
@Jeffro: National Media:
Kathleen
@J R in WV: Well a few of us in Ohio thought election was stolen in 2004. John Conyers convened a hearing in Columbus and published a book about the findings. Representative Stephanie Tubb Jones (the first African American woman elected to Congress from Ohio) joined U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) in objecting to the certification of the 2004 U.S. presidential election results for Ohio.
So when Karl Rove insisted Ohio had outstanding votes to be counted in solid red Warren County (about 20 miles northeast of Cincinnati) he also confirmed to me something wonky did go down in 2004.
chopper
meh. trump gish galloped so that they couldn’t discuss covid cause his handlers know he’s radiofuckingactive on that subject. they figured the damage from coming off as a coked-up asshole would be less than a public addressing of his being completely out-to-lunch during the biggest crisis in decades.
they tone him down in the next debate and it won’t be good for him. it’s either ‘maniac asshole trump’ or ‘trump backs out of the second debate’.
Kathleen
@Baud: It was amusing. I kept asking myself, “Where in the hell have you all been for the past 5 years?”
Brachiator
@Yutsano:
Much more complicated than that. Throughout Mexico and the United States there are Hispanic people who are clearly mixed who lie and say that they and their children are Spanish. I’ve seen this time and time again in friends, co-workers and former in-laws. I’ve also known Hispanic people with African ancestry bend over backwards to deny it.
There is a whole universe of DNA reveal YouTube videos featuring Hispanic people who are shocked when they review the results.
This is the case as well in other South American countries.
But it is a huge oversimplification to connect this with support for Trump and the GOP.
The vast majority of Hispanic people are mixed and in many countries the European ancestry can be traced along the Y chromosome, which often implies concubinage or worse with respect to the maternal ancestry.
Again, more complicated than that. A lot of Hispanic people lost businesses back home, or could not even start a business, because of excessive government interference, outright corruption or government collision with criminals. They love the shit out of the greater comparative opportunity in the United States.
Geminid
@J R in WV: I remember that scene election night 2012, and it seemed to me also that Rove thought he had an inside angle on some yet unreported votes. Maybe just wishful thinking. The on-air talent was Meghan Kelly, still on the upward trajectory of her career.
Citizen Alan
@Soprano2:
I’ll wager he’d do good just to remember “Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV” again if you asked him.
L85NJGT
@Brachiator:
Late19th and early 20th century migration into the Americas was also more diverse than just Spanish.