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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Just a day ending in -Y

Just a day ending in -Y

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Much like the White House COVID cluster contact tracing effort by the press where it is just as easy if not easier to ask who has not been infected, senior 2016 Trump campaign officials can be asked if they have not been indicted…

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  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    CNN reporting some Walter Reed staff (doctors and medical professionals) were asked to sign NDAs during November’s mystery visit.  NDAs in order to treat the patient.

    Some staff declined; some may have signed.

    Very interesting.  CNN saying some doctors may have been asked to sign during recent hospitalization as well, but White House would not comment.  Did not deny, either.

  5. 5.

    Martin

    @Gin & Tonic: HIPAA has large carve-outs for public health. You can’t disclose that someone has cancer, but you can disclose that they have Covid, when they got it, who they got it from, etc.

    It’s a well written law.

  7. 7.

    jl

    @Elizabelle: Maybe someone more familiar with patient confidentiality issues can inform me, but the NDA seems weird. Trump has power to control what his physicians say and not say about his case without an NDA. Look at the untenable and humiliating hand he’s dealt his doctors for his covid.

  8. 8.

    sdhays

    @Martin: You can’t ignore it if you break the terms and then get sued by Dump. Sure, after spending thousands of dollars on lawyers and months of right-wing media frothing about your betrayal of god-emperor Dump, you might win.

    But by that time, it would easy to conclude that you still lost.

  9. 9.

    sdhays

    Maybe they’re not worried about details of his treatment leaking out, but things not related to his treatment. Screaming demands for more infant blood, for example.

  10. 10.

    Keith P.

    Did anyone else notice how bad Trump’s voice sounded this morning on Fox News? I think they’re going to try to imply that he’s tested negative without having done so, but the virus may have other ideas.

  11. 11.

    jl

    @Martin: I think some issues related to contact tracing are confidential as well, to keep public trust in the system. But the real issue is personal health status as revealed by imaging, tests, etc.

    But I agree. Doctors are free to say, for example, the WH outbreak is a superspreader event, and those are a major factor driving the immense burden and costs of covid in the US, and somebody or sombodies did a major bad. Not that they would, but they could.

    And the DC authorities should raise a huge stink about it. Who knows how many unidentified cases from the WH will complicate control efforts in DC. But probably mainly among the ‘lesser’ people, so who cares, right?

  14. 14.

    jl

    @Keith P.: It’s public knowledge that there is a risk of sudden worsening of covid up to two weeks after onset. Trump is not out of the woods yet, but probably not much anyone can do to adequately control his behavior or monitor his health.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    @jl: Actually, he doesn’t. This is a public health situation and Walter Reed doctors are federal employees. They are mandatory reporters. They have to disclose public health issues which includes Covid.

    The rub here is that it’s intended to notify local officials to take action, but that kind of doesn’t work for the President.

    But this is how contact tracing works. It needs that carve-out to function. So, if doctors have an obligation to inform, and the WH  is blocking direct information to inform, that only leaves public disclosure. Doctors are in a no-win situation here.

  17. 17.

    jl

    @Martin: OK, but I don’t think they can ID individual contacts whose status is not already publicly known. At least those are rules in my local area. Let me know if I am wrong on that.

  18. 18.

    Peale

    @jl: I’m wondering if the NDAs that were signed while he was in president using the white house cousel (taxpayer funded) could be simply annulled by an executive order so that people can squeal once he’s gone with immunity from being sued by him. For government employees, especially, let the government pick up the tab of fending off frivolous lawsuits by private citizen Trump.

  19. 19.

    Martin

    @sdhays: It’s in the act of doing your job – your employer provides the legal representation. The CDC mandates that federal employees disclose public heath information.

  20. 20.

    germy

    (Bloomberg)–Elliott Broidy, a former top political fundraiser for President Donald Trump and the Republican Party, has been charged as part of a wide-ranging federal probe into back-channel efforts to influence the U.S. government on behalf of foreign interests via @TheTerminal— Jordan Fabian (@Jordanfabian) October 8, 2020

  21. 21.

    Ken

    @Keith P.: Are we sure that was Trump?  J-L Cauvin imitates his voice, why couldn’t the WH find someone to do the same?  They’d have to find someone able to fake the narcissistic inanity too.  It even explains the loopy statement about being a young person – the impersonator slipped up.

    UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED, ESPECIALLY to COMPUTER BULLETIN BOARDS

  22. 22.

    germy

    Remember that Eliot Broidy pretended to be the father of Trump's aborted porn-star babies.

    Then had to go home to his wife and explain that despite what the legal docs "leaked" to the Inquirer impllied, he hadn't really fcuked her. Just pretended to cover for Donald.

    — Alan Stacey (@AlanVRK) October 8, 2020

  23. 23.

    jl

    I wonder if Trump is hyping free ‘roids on TV. Probably that drug, and the opportunity to hawk free mass distribution  of something that only a doc and patient can decide on a case by cases basis is close enough to hawking Trump steaks, that it has Trump really pepped him up.

    @joshtpm

    the mix of desperation and showmanship here. he’s winging this. it’s all him.

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1314254323921100801

  24. 24.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    ? Roger Stone –                     GUILTY

    ? Michael Flynn –                  GUILTY

    ? Michael Cohen –                GUILTY

    ? Paul Manafort –                 GUILTY

    ? Rick Gates –                        GUILTY

    ? Maria Butina –                    GUILTY

    ? George Papadopoulos –   GUILTY

    ? Alex van der Zwaan –        GUILTY

    ? Richard Pinedo –                GUILTY

    ? Sam Patten –                      GUILTY

    ? Paul Erickson –                   GUILTY

    ? George Nader –                 GUILTY

    ? Chris Collins –                    GUILTY

    ? Nickie Mali Lum Davis –   GUILTY

    ? Ghislaine Maxwell –          CAPTURED

    ? Lev Parnas –                       CAPTURED

    ? Igor Fruman –                    CAPTURED

    ? Steve Bannon –                  CAPTURED

    ? Elliott Broidy –                    CAPTURED

    ? Konstantin Kilimnik –        AT LARGE

    ? Rudy Giuliani –                   UNDER INVESTIGATION

    ? Louis Dejoy –                      UNDER INVESTIGATION

    ? Trump Organization –      UNDER INVESTIGATION

    ? Jerry Falwell –                     RESIGNS/ILLEGAL PAYMENTS CUCKOLD SCANDAL

    ? Eric Trump –                       PLEADS FIFTH AMENDMENT

    ? Donald Trump –                UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR/ IMPEACHED

  26. 26.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    “Forget the myths the media has created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys.”

    Mark Felt

  27. 27.

    jl

    @Ken: At this point, maybe lining up and getting into a life boat takes a lot of attention. Not only is the ship sinking, but doing so rapidly, far out in high seas with big waves.

    Edit: I assume you mean Cain’s twitter account and its depraved masters are quiet.

  29. 29.

    Martin

    @jl: You can. I mean, it should not be public, but disclosure is necessary. This was pretty well hammered out during the AIDS crisis – with laws passed mandating disclosure. Part of what those laws were meant to do is say ‘if you refuse to disclose discreetly, we will put it on the police blotter for everyone to see’.

    So, in the case of a public health situation, there is an obligation to communicate that information in such a way that affected people can know they were affected. Normally you have compliant individuals and that’s done discreetly, but I’m guessing the NDAs used this week specifically prevented that from happening, thereby contravening federal law.

    But the NDAs are invalid no matter what, because federal employees are constrained by federal law. If HIPAA says you can’t disclose, then you can’t disclose. If the CDC say you must disclose, then you must disclose. You can’t have every rando constraining federal employees from doing their job just because they have a lawyer that can write an NDA. That was like day 2 of my orientation – I cannot enter into private contracts that affect the execution of my job.

  30. 30.

    feebog

    The sheer number of people associated with the Trump campaign and/or the Republican Party is amazeballs.  At some point you would think they would run out of potential felons.

  35. 35.

    Ken

    @jl: I don’t follow Cain’s twitter account, or any twitter account, so I don’t know how active it’s been.  I was just pointing out that a number of people haven’t been very visible in the last couple days, and we know one of them (Christie) is covid-positive.

    Distancing from Trump is another explanation, and would fit with Trump’s anger at Barr.

  36. 36.

    jl

    @Martin: If you are saying that Trump’s personal doctors could say publicly that they have reason to believe, such a such group of people may have been exposed and should tested or contact their doc, without naming names, then I agree. Whether it would be appropriate for Trump’s personal doc to do that is another question, but not illegal. I agree that someone should do it, since the type of superspreader event the WH whipped up is extremely dangerous and I think doubtful the 30 or so ID’d so far are the only ones at risk. As I noted above, the total cases from the WH outbreak probably far exceed what is publicly known.

    The refusal of the WH to cooperate with a proper investigation is a big ******* deal and needs more attention.

  37. 37.

    H.E.Wolf

    I’m very pleased to hear that Elliott Broidy has been indicted.

    Like many of the inner circle of the current president, Broidy reminds me of the pigs in Orwell’s Animal Farm.

    It’s not their weight or their body shapes; it’s their smug, smirking facial expressions… and their lust for corrupt power.

  38. 38.

    germy

    @H.E.Wolf:

    Yes, that’s a good comparison.

    Broidy always looks like walking upright is a recently acquired skill. He does it so proudly.

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    First Trump’s patriotic Michigan admirers and now Broidy.

    I’d like to believe regular DOJers are acting because Bill Barr is very sick.

    It’s the romantic in me.

  47. 47.

    Immanentize

    @JPL: Barr also said nothing about the very important extradition of the multiple killer terrorists yesterday (,the “Beatles”).

    But he put out a press release about two misdemeanor charges from protests.

  51. 51.

    sdhays

    @germy: I don’t think Barr’s DoJ is going to arrest Joe Biden or even Hillary, but the one thing that makes me wonder is how the Republicans like to employ a tool first in a transparently corrupt way to thus make a subsequent legitimate use of that tool seem to be simply corrupt payback. I think the Clinton impeachment at least partially inoculated W from being impeached. It’s perverse, but they’ve done it before.

  52. 52.

    Benw

    Man remember when the big thing we had to worry about was a bunch of morons in a bird sanctuary? Good times

  53. 53.

    Mike in NC

    Today’s GOP: everybody sooner or later gets impeached, indicted, or infected. Trump is going for the trifecta.

  59. 59.

    MJS

    If the reporting is accurate, I’m not sure I agree that now is the time for legislation concerning the 25th Amendment to be introduced. But Speaker Pelosi obviously knows her stuff, so maybe I’m just missing the point.

  62. 62.

    otmar

    @Ken: I used to operate Usenet servers. First at Salzburg University about ’92 – ’97, then at Austria’s oldest ISP ’97 – ’02.

    I haven’t touched a newsreader (strn was my fave back then) in years.

  63. 63.

    jl

    @MJS: WH spox is apparently on TV saying that Whitmer brought the kidnapping plot on herself because of the ‘hatred in her heart’ for Trump.

    So, if it is now official executive policy that  ‘heart crimes’ against Trump justify vigilante violence, then millions are at risk. Time to discuss all options that can be put on the table for a president and his remaining flunkies who are going mad and sinking further into depravity right before our eyes.

  65. 65.

    Jeffro

    @germy: I’m intrigued!  How does one “weaponize” either impeachment or the 25th amendment?

    Oh wait.  “Weaponize” = “use it on a Republican”.  Never mind, got it.

  66. 66.

    Another Scott

    WOOOW. A Canadian research project gave homeless people $7,500 each — the results were 'beautifully surprising'.

    Turns out: basic income for the homeless pays for itself. It's free money, because 'the project saved the shelter system $8,100 per person'.

    'https://t.co/mgaS0TIF4O

    — Rutger Bregman (@rcbregman) October 8, 2020

    Unpossible.

    Everybody knows that Teh Government just takes tax dollars and burns them in trenches in countries we invade.

    Or something.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67.

    Gin & Tonic

    Saw on the Twitters that Pence, now in Arizona, has canceled plans to go to Indiana tomorrow and is returning to Washington instead.

    Presented without comment.

  68. 68.

    Ken

    The Broidy indictment lists relevant parties starting on page 4.  There’s several named persons, all of whom (other than Broidy) have already pled guilty to some crime.

    There are also some people and corporations whose identies are concealed. For example we have “Person A”, “a US Citizen, businessperson, and entertainer with international ties,” or “Law Firm A” which was “operated by Person C and controlled by BROIDY and Person C”.

    Does hiding their identities that way mean investigations or indictments against them are in progress?  Or that they are not implicated in any crimes?  Or just standard procedure and we can’t infer anything?

  70. 70.

    Ken

    @Another Scott: Actually that’s been demonstrated multiple times.  Other big wins when the homeless are housed are fewer calls to the police, and less use of the hospital emergency room.  Most homeless advocacy agencies are aware of this and are working to convince the legislatures.

  75. 75.

    Yutsano

    @Immanentize: Jeebus. They were desperate enough for personnel to bring out the animate bowling ball? I would kill for someone to ask him if he’s got another side piece pregnant. I also want to know how the hell he’s still married.

  77. 77.

    Sebastian

    @Keith P.:

    That is my biggest wish: for him to lose his voice (and ability to tweet) but be alive and healthy enough to understand and experience the humiliation without being able to overshout everyone.

  81. 81.

    PJ

    @Gin & Tonic:

    A) He just wants to stop in at Walter Reed to say hello to the troops; and/or

    B) He needs to find the Nixon family Bible (oh no, particular reason . . .)

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    @Immanentize:

     

    @Keith P.: Miller is an indefensible scumbag and I’m wondering if cable news networks need a reminder of this…just because they have this need to present ‘both sides’, doesn’t mean that the public should be subjected to this kind of lying, hate-mongering, violence-excusing BS.

  83. 83.

    Ken

    @Gin & Tonic: @WaterGirl: I will take back every nasty thing I said about the 2020 writers if tomorrow is an announcement by Pence and the cabinet that they are invoking the 25th Amendment, with Pelosi and McConnell following up with announcements that the Congress will support the declaration.  What a twist!

  84. 84.

    PJ

    @Ken: I have to say, they are doing a pretty good job of tying up a lot of the loose plot ends of the last four seasons – Elliot Broidy (I had forgotten him from the first two seasons) today, who knows what tomorrow?

  85. 85.

    sdhays

    @Sebastian: I’ve been thinking this since his “Part 1 of Annual Physical” visit to Walter Reed last year. If you were writing this as a trashy novel which eventually has a moral, that would be Dump’s punishment.

  86. 86.

    sdhays

    @Ken: I think it’s more likely Dense is now COVID positive or Dump is on the verge of another trip to Walter Reed.

    ETA: Dense, McConnell and Pelosi coming together to invoke the 25th Amendment would only happen in an Aaron Sorkin creation, and we’re not in one of those.

  87. 87.

    Calouste

    @Ken: McConnell said today that he hasn’t been at the White House in more than two months, due to him not wanting to catch the virus basically. I’m fairly sure he wasn’t at the superspreader event either, probably for the same reason. And I’m curious how he is going to balance his personal safety with his attempt to ram through the Supreme Court nomination now that three GOP Senators (that we know of) are positive.

  88. 88.

    scav

    @sdhays: Well, both of them being positive would explain why any thought of the 25th would frighten Goopers into bleating about coups.

  90. 90.

    Ken

    @sdhays: I meant that Dense and the cabinet would invoke the 25th, and Pelosi and McConnell would indicate that they had the votes to reject any attempt by Trump to reclaim the office.  I agree the 25th (with or without congressional backup) is pretty unlikely and it’s probably covid.

  91. 91.

    Ken

    @Calouste: And I’m curious how [McConnell] is going to balance his personal safety with his attempt to ram through the Supreme Court nomination

    What, a senior citizen not willing to die for the economy Republican control of the courts for another generation?  Hasn’t he been watching Fox?  Doesn’t he understand his duty to the country and party?

  93. 93.

    Ken

    @WaterGirl: I was mostly joking about the 25th.  Also, why would Pence’s positive test prevent him from going to rallies and glad-handing donors?  It didn’t stop Trump, until he made the mistake of telling people he was positive.

    Any word BTW on those donors Trump visited last week?  As rich Republicans some of them might be willing to hide their status for the party, but I’d think at least a few would freak out.  Or that local reporters would track them down.

  95. 95.

    moops

    I think that Pence actually likes his donors and wouldn’t want them mad at him for exposing them to COVID.  So I’m going with a positive COVID test.    Pence’s only real function in the administration is fund raising.  If he damages his ability to raise funds then there is no reason to keep him around.

  97. 97.

    jl

    @Jeffro: “She said WHAT???”

    If I heard radio correctly, Jason Miller.

    Maybe he is an informal surrogate? I can keep track of all these toxic loons.

  98. 98.

    jl

    @Ken: I heard report that everyone followed social distancing rules at the meeting. No surprise the bigshot donors have more sense than their flunkies, the Trumpsters. So, probably meeting was low risk, for once. I suppose Trump could adjust to that, even if a stretch for him.

    Maybe Trump went along because donors have the money and he needs it, so for things like that he defers.

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