Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

RIP Zandar. We are still here fighting the stupid, now in your honor.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Late Night Open Thread: Perspectives

Late Night Open Thread: Perspectives

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Normie international-relations professor:

Professional libertarian, Mr. Megan McArgleBargle:

Reader Interactions

104Comments

  4. 4.

    Benw

    For those who want to think a little more out-of-the-box, may I enroll you in a $12,000, one week course, offered by my consulting firm: Tape A Bit of Paper Over Your Laptop Camera and Then Do Whatever the Fuck You Want, LLC?

  5. 5.

    laura

    Hey all you entitled overpaid male media whores – put your pants on and shuffle off to buffalo, just get the fuck out of my zeitgeist!

  9. 9.

    piratedan

    @Soprano2: I would venture that the decision tree of choices would look like the aftermath of a forest fire…

    1) disband the pandemic team
    2) misrepresent the IC reports on the virus
    3) ship off the PPE reserves
    4) don’t replace them
    5) no executive order to ramp up to deal with the virus
    6) shut down the WHO testing model
    7) hamstring the CDC
    8) lie about all of the above
    9) half ass the travel ban
    10) pit the states against each other for PPE
    11) lie more about how lethal it is
    12) inform the states that there will be no federal response
    13) fuck with those states that are trying to deal
    14) nepotism the shit out of the response
    15) lie about the numbers some more
    16) offer bullshit cures in the public discussion
    17) undercut the federal response
    18) move reporting from the CDC to HHS
    19) stop reporting numbers
    20) lie about how awesome the federal response was
    21) still no federal mandate to address PPE production and ventilators
    22) bullshit about vaccines
    23) spread the virus himself

    I think that covers most of the highlights…

  11. 11.

    Kattails

    @piratedan: But who’s counting?  That’s an impressive list to come up with within half an hour of the post, we know what you haven’t *cough*  been doing during the meetings

    Someone below posted a link to a little video of Trump and Melania exiting the stage after the debate, (sry can’t remember who to credit) but seeing him either  shove her hand away or her yank it… if you look carefully you’ll also notice her wiping her hand on her dress afterwards.

  13. 13.

    mdblanche

    While Toobin was masturbating on the Zoom call, he was supposed to be playing the role of the courts.

    And now we know why judges wear robes.

  14. 14.

    Mike in NC

    The new Borat movie on Amazon Prime is insanely over the top and hits Trump, Pence, CPAC, QAnon, COVID deniers, Holocaust deniers, horny Rudi, MAGA rallies, gun nuts, anti-vaxxers and more. Well worth a look.

  19. 19.

    FlyingToaster

    What’s truly sad here is that my daughter, at age 8, with her iPad mini, put a piece of Elmer’s Tack over the camera.  WarriorTeen now routinely puts a sticky over her school Chromebook camera, which irritates her middle school teachers.

    And, mind you, everyone at ChezToaster puts on pants before sitting down at a laptop.

  22. 22.

    Kattails

    @TXSwede: Watched, wonderful, thank you. I love the VoteVets ads.

    @Amir Khalid: Mirriam-Webster, Treason 2. The betrayal of a trust: (see) Treachery Violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence

  26. 26.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Benw: For those who want to think a little more out-of-the-box, may I enroll you in a $12,000, one week course, offered by my consulting firm: Tape A Bit of Paper Over Your Laptop Camera and Then Do Whatever the Fuck You Want, LLC?

    My consulting firm, That’s Not Your Camera and They Can Still See You LLC is having a buy one, get one 50% sale now through Election Day.

  27. 27.

    The Moar You Know

    1) disband the pandemic team
    2) misrepresent the IC reports on the virus
    3) ship off the PPE reserves
    4) don’t replace them
    5) no executive order to ramp up to deal with the virus
    6) shut down the WHO testing model
    7) hamstring the CDC
    8) lie about all of the above
    9) half ass the travel ban
    10) pit the states against each other for PPE
    11) lie more about how lethal it is
    12) inform the states that there will be no federal response
    13) fuck with those states that are trying to deal
    14) nepotism the shit out of the response
    15) lie about the numbers some more
    16) offer bullshit cures in the public discussion
    17) undercut the federal response
    18) move reporting from the CDC to HHS
    19) stop reporting numbers
    20) lie about how awesome the federal response was
    21) still no federal mandate to address PPE production and ventilators
    22) bullshit about vaccines
    23) spread the virus himself

    @piratedan:  if you were deliberately trying to murder as many Americans during a pandemic as possible, what would you do differently?

  28. 28.

    Kent

    @FlyingToaster: I was walking by my 9th grade daughter’s zoom class today.  Every kid had their cameras turned off.  Teacher was talking to 24 blank screens.  I’m sort of surprised that the teachers allow it.  I guess they don’t care.

  29. 29.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @mdblanche: I have a vague memory that a judge was actually found to have a habit of masturbating under his robes during trials.

    So arguably Toobin was in character.

    Edit: Yep. This case came up #1 in the Google search (oh, I’m going to get such strange ads now). And I’ll bet it’s not the only one.

  31. 31.

    jl

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: “Good thing Baud isn’t here to see all this discussion of wearing pants.”

    Baud’s pantsless policy plank turned out to be prophetic. Evidence that our political and thought leaders don’t know how to pantsless is now clear for everyone to see.

    How can you lead if you can’t pantsless without scaring people?

  34. 34.

    piratedan

    @The Moar You Know: well short of a Federal Mandate to only treat Republicans its really hard to say….

    and I tried to keep it to an easier to digest version so it wouldn’t be in TL;DR mode but I wanted to make a specific point about how much of an impact the lying makes, because it’s not always the same lie that’s being told.  If there’s a want, I can go into more specifics but this is what I could ping off the top of my head in that moment… and its still pretty damn scary/daunting when you think of the scope…

     

    In a way, I think it follows the same pattern about the reaction to the Russian interference in our election, every seemingly sane choice discarded by the GOP, at every branching the less democratic law abiding choice was made… I’m sure that the statisticians may review this and come to the finding that all of this was DELIBERATE.

  36. 36.

    Brachiator

    @Peale:

    But in 2019, the National Vaccine Program Office was shut down in an effort to cut costs and “eliminate program redundancies,” Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar wrote at the time. The shortsightedness of that shutdown has come into clear view amid the coronavirus pandemic, said Dr. Nicole Lurie, who who was assistant secretary for preparedness and response at HHS during the 2009 pandemic.

    Running the government like a business.

    Just further confirmation that Trump needs to be voted out of office with an exclamation point.

  37. 37.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @The Moar You Know: if you were deliberately trying to murder as many Americans during a pandemic as possible, what would you do differently?

    Well Trump has yet call for the murder of all doctors as elitists.

  38. 38.

    The Moar You Know

     

    I’m sort of surprised that the teachers allow it.  I guess they don’t care.

    @Kent: Spouse of a teacher.  They talk about it a lot.  It bugs the shit out of every single teacher in my wife’s district, but there’s not a damn thing they can do about it.

    The teachers find it incredibly demoralizing.

  40. 40.

    FlyingToaster

    @Kent: One reason kids turn their cameras off is that the connection often sucks when everyone’s online together.  Dropping 8 video threads does improve everything else.

    Fridays are all remote in our school’s hybrid scheme; Advisory (what would be morning homeroom in the Before times) starts with the teacher telling everyone, “Okay turn on your camera.  Thanks, I’ve taken attendance; if your connection sucks turn it back off.”

    WarriorTeen comes home at 12:30 because all afternoon teaching is remote via Chromebook; the kids remaining at school usually turn off their video after the teacher has confirmed they’re there.  Our house definitely has better connectivity than the Art Room (where her pod is located).

  44. 44.

    JaySinWA

    @Kent: The upload speed for xfinity and other common providers is close to the minimum of Zoom. Having cameras on is problematic in keeping a connection working properly. Cameras off is sensible, I believe just from a technical perspective. From a social view, the room may well present social economic background information that marks people in negative ways.

  45. 45.

    Chetan Murthy

    @JaySinWA: Hangouts calls are often clearer than phone calls, even between the same two devices.  But unless I -want- video, I always disable it, b/c geez, who needs to waste the bandwidth, and hey, the voice call might be even better quality!  And I have a really good ISP (Monkeybrains  in SF).

  47. 47.

    VeniceRiley

    For a mere $1750, I will set up a Logitech webcam for you that has a phsical slide lens cover in contrasty white. That way, everyone will only hear you jack your noodle.

  51. 51.

    Brachiator

    @James E Powell:

    In my district, Los Angeles, we cannot require students to have their cameras on.

    I do not recall where it was, but I recently listened to a teacher who delivered her school lessons via a YouTube video.  This obviously eliminated interaction with students, but she found that when she used Zoom, some students felt embarrassed to be a focus of attention. They had no problem with looking at the teacher, but did not want to be looked at themselves. Others felt bad about having others peek into their homes.

    Remote teaching is a new experiment. The rules have to be worked out.

    Same is the case with remote work. I don’t want to rehash a lot of the Toobin mishap, but I remember asking a colleague  to either send me a text message or call me later about some work related matter.

    The person was out of the office and was obviously calling from a restroom.  He was on the toilet taking care of business.  This was just a phone call, not video.  And I could not point to any clear rule or etiquette that made such a call impermissible.  But I found it distracting and annoying.  And I know people who do it all the time. Add working from home and it all becomes crazy complicated.

  52. 52.

    MobiusKlein

    @Kent: Re teachers and video –

    in my town, school district rules forbid teachers from making it a requirement.    And the teachers I know care, and have a hard time coping with all those things.  But carry on the best they can.

  55. 55.

    jl

    @piratedan: What could have been with the resources of the US!

    Below is a link to a time lapse of the Our World in Data’s government stringency index, which is a rough measure of coercive ‘heavy manners’ used by governments to control covid-19. It measures the extent and severity of travel bans, general shut downs, school closings, etc. You can click on the arrow at the lower right and watch stringency over the world flash before your eyes since January.

    COVID-19: Government Response Stringency Index, Oct 23, 2020

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?time=2020-10-23

    Note Taiwan, which is one of the world leaders in covid-19 control, and note that not only have they controlled covid-19 better than almost every other county, but they have been able to keep their economy and society far more open.

    OK, don’t like Taiwan: it’s an island, it society is different, etc.?  Look at Denmark, Norway, Finland, Estonia and Latvia. They did have strong shutdowns and closures, but for a far shorter time that we did, have fewer restrictions now and doing far better than we are in disease control (though Denmark has a bad outbreak right now). I’m leaving Sweden out since it is a special case.

    So, US covid-19 control is EXCEPTIONAL!  Maximum damage from covid-19, expensive cost of control, maximum damage to society and the economy. Quite an achievement. American exceptionalism GOP and Trump style.

  56. 56.

    tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat)

    I teach 8 Zoom classes a week (4 classes 2 times a week). These are first and second year university students. They all keep the cameras off for reasons expressed above (data limitations, privacy, no one else has their camera on, etc.). The Ministry of Education also advised universities to be mindful of data limitations.

    It was weird at first just having my face on screen, but I’ve gotten used to it. It’s still better than last term when there was no Zoom, it was all on demand and I had no connection with the students. As was pointed out above, we’re all learning the rules of this environment and trying to make it work. For a speaking class (the only Zoom class), at least it allows them an opportunity to practice English. Listening class has transferred well to the on demand environment. Writing class has proved more challenging, especially in terms of giving feedback in a timely manner. All of us want to be back in the classroom.

  57. 57.

    Chetan Murthy

    @jl: Thank you for this!  It’s quite instructive to see just how little our restrictions differ from countries that have done a much better job overall.

  58. 58.

    Aleta

    At the Leslie Stahl School of Instant Journalism you’ll learn her secret to interviewing Mike Pence without slapping him at every answer.

  59. 59.

    Pete Downunder

    @jl: Australia with landmass similar to continental US but population about 25 million has Covid well controlled in all states except Victoria which is fighting a few clusters. Life here is pretty normal except that travel is restricted. Limited travel (opening gradually) between states is taking place but international travel is entirely closed.

    Shops and restaurants have Covid safe rules and restaurants log customers for contact tracing but otherwise life goes on. The key was early lockdown with strict enforcement including heavy on the spot fines.

  60. 60.

    jl

    @Chetan Murthy: Yes, that is also true. But the tragedy is that a number of countries have been able to reduce both the costs of the disease and costs of control far below the mess we have here.

    If control is smart, it does not have to be disastrously expensive or restrictive of economic and social life. I read an article on Taiwan, and one thing they have done is exploit their equivalent of the Defense Production Act to the max.. They don’t have to deal with shortages of masks, test equipment, medical PPE that other countries do. They built an entire supply chain for that stuff.. Plus they go very early on effective control efforts, which means they don’t have to go extremely strong in a widespread costly way.

    I’ll try to dig up the article.

    Edit: the one catch is you do have to wear a damned mask on public almost all the time.

  61. 61.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Mary G: It is great that they’re showing up, but I’m not convinced these kids aren’t voting for Trump. Anything goes this year.

  62. 62.

    Chetan Murthy

    @jl: “wear a damn mask in public almost all the time”.  Heh.  That’d be an improvement on basically “never go out, just work from home, never go inside another building”.

  63. 63.

    jl

    @Pete Downunder: One advantage Australia has with other more successful countries is that there is an adequate testing and contact tracing and isolation program. So, they know where the outbreaks originate and how they move though the country.

    in the US we are like a blind person wandering around in a backyard littered with rakes, getting hit in the face every time we turn around.

  64. 64.

    jl

    Many poor countries in Africa are doing better than the US both in covid control and costs, even after you control for differences in age structure. Though there are some exceptions who are messing up, and a few blowing it off an lying about it.

    But, I read that Africa has built a continental wide supply chain for control equipment, again, tests, masks, medical PPE, etc. Any country in Africa can tap into it.

    Another article I need to dig up.

  68. 68.

    jl

    Not the article I found on it originally, I think it was in NYT, but don’t see that one. This is from a website that seems to be associated with professional pharmacy associations.

    The Africa Medical Supplies Platform, Africa’s united continental supply chain response to COVID, expands to African hospitals and CARICOM countries, and secures lifesaving COVID-19 medical treatment to benefit nearly 1 million Africans

    https://thepharmadata.com/the-africa-medical-supplies-platform-africas-united-continental-supply-chain-response-to-covid-expands-to-african-hospitals-and-caricom-countries-and-secures-lifesaving-covid-19-medical-treatment/

  69. 69.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @jl: Go look at the map of the US, the places that are doing the best are the places AIDs is the worst.  Not only is the infrastructure in place but the population knows they can’t count of the Fed because of conservative BS.

  71. 71.

    jl

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    General public infrastructure capacity, and experience actually solving problems, have been noted as important factors in successful control. I saw it mentioned in review of the response in Norway, Finland and Switzerland. They have public sectors that have been well funded and given authority to actually solve social and health problems in the last few decades.

    In most the US the public sector has spent its time fighting for ever scarcer funds, and hunkering down to keep things together with duct tape and twine. Let alone try to actually solve a major problem. Which is one reason state health departments have been having more trouble than expected developing good control policies. And some have had to fight a two front war against the disease and against state political leadership.

  72. 72.

    Ruckus

    @Wag:

    Going after the conservative market. Their concept barely allows electrical current let alone this web thing…..

  74. 74.

    Peale

    I honestly feel bad for Dan Froomkin, since I had him confused with Jeff Toobin when this story broke. Hopefully I’m the only one. Saw his name on a byline over at Huffpost and wondered why they had hired such a sleaze so quickly after the scandal.

  76. 76.

    TriassicSands

    @The Moar You Know:

    There is a much shorter list:

    1) Elect Donald Trump to be your president.

    Rest assured if there is something stupid to do, Donald will do it. If there is something important to be done, Donald won’t do it.

    It’s pretty clear, if the SARS-CoV2 virus could vote, it would vote for Trump. Just think of the landslide — Donald Trump: “n” vigintillion; Joe Biden: 70 million.

    And the turnout at his inauguration would be “Uuuuuuuge!”

    No president has done more for COVID-19 than Donald Trump.

  79. 79.

    mrmoshpotato

    @dmsilev: Dr. Biden loves her husband, and she loves him for the good, decent, hard-working, family man that he is.

    God bless her.

  89. 89.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TXSwede:

    Excellent ad! (I take it you’re Bjorn.) Thank you for sharing your story with VoteVets, and for bringing this ad to our attention.

  90. 90.

    Geminid

    @jl: re Covid-19 in Africa: a lot of less wealthy countries have good, well distributed public health programs. That the US lags in this area may show an opportunity cost of our for-profit health care system.

  92. 92.

    Geminid

    @Geminid: And then there are the odd cultural practices of the “developed” countries. In the Swiss Canton of Swyz, a yodeling concert in September turned out to be a super spreader event.

  96. 96.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @The Moar You Know: if you were deliberately trying to murder as many Americans during a pandemic as possible, because you thought the victims would be disproportionately black & brown folks who see through your bullshit & would never vote for you anyway, what would you do differently?

    FTFY (unfortunately).

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @piratedan: I agree with Betty.  That would make a great ad.  I can see the list scrolling across the screen as they narrate.  Tweet it to the Biden campaign and the Lincoln Project.  People should also tweet it at the Pod Save America folks because they have connections to the campaign.

  103. 103.

    J R in WV

    @Miss Bianca: 

    Electrical tape works pretty well, too. Ask Me How I Know!

    Second thing I do with a new laptop is cover the on board camera with black electrical tape. As soon as I get it running, tape that camera. Have never needed it, won’t even need it.

  104. 104.

    KenK

    @laura: @#5 “put your pants on and shuffle off to buffalo, just get the fuck out of my zeitgeist!”
    No thanks, I don’t want them in my zeitgeist, either.

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