I really, really hate this type of reductive framing where the media (& the 'left') just boil down someone with an impressive record to one single descriptor, which is of course the most negative possible framing.
Basically invalidated all the good accomplishments they've had. https://t.co/UaNwo5Fn8O
— Centrism Fan Acct ? (@Wilson__Valdez) November 17, 2020
Sure, court stenographer Maggie Haberman may have provided four years of comfy-chair interrogation to the Trump Crime Cartel, but now that there will be a Democrat in the White House, the NYTimes is bringing back the snipers. And Politico alum Ken Vogel has been diligently laundering ‘troubling implications’ concerning the Biden family for years now!
like, i very much hate haberman's reputation-laundering shop for ivanka and kushner, but vogel's been an active participant in a full-blown disinformation campaign
— golikehellmachine (@golikehellmachi) November 17, 2020
Never forget Ken Vogel laundered Rudy Giuliani's crazy bullshit to give the Trump Admin pretext to shakedown the Ukrainian president. https://t.co/p0Q5d0QBKb
— CIA Operative (@OpBlackstone) November 17, 2020
Or…
-Journalist who played an integral part in laundering the Russian govt's disinfo operation on our election
or
-Journalist who ambushed an elderly, immigrant mother to write a hit piece on the president of a progressive think tank, who he has a vendetta against(KEN VOGEL)
— Centrism Fan Acct ? (@Wilson__Valdez) November 17, 2020
Be prepared for four to eight years of ‘just raising an important issue’ and ‘but the troubling implications’ from this smarmy little wad…
"There is a story here, we've told some of it, there's more to be told… That said, the way that Rudy is inserting himself into it, is both not helpful I think to Rudy and to Trump… he's getting the facts wrong" – @kenvogel w/ @NicolleDWallace pic.twitter.com/pFOVi56BPU
— Deadline White House (@DeadlineWH) September 20, 2019
Jim, Foolish Literalist
his hit list on Biden’s inner circle has a somewhat familiar ring….
Hunter Gathers
Glenn Greenwald is going to Stan the fuck out of this guy.
BruceFromOhio
Ooh, ooh, Flouting for $500, please, Alex!
Vogel and his ilk are unemployable otherwise, so one might consider the FTFNYT as a jobs program for the stunted.
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s like they’re all using the same crib notes…
jl
They are giving worse reviews, and bullshittier, than many Dem progressives, who are happy about Klain as chief of staff, and (I think) Haaland for secretary of interior. And some of the progressive whining is a low bar, but the coporate media trolls can’t even make that.
There are a lot of GOP plants in corporate media who do nothing but troll.
Edit: and these are some of the same trolls who pretend that a slogan like ‘defund the police’ was cooked up by AOC, not a spontaneous cry for reform from the protestors themselves. I don’t think any faction of the Democrats did a good job of managing a slogan like that, but that is another matter.
Leto
@Hunter Gathers: I can’t wait for them to form a new “news” enterprise, because they’re being censored!!!, and watch it fall apart in six to eight years.
Damien
Fuck this guy in particular. Journalists who get taken for a ride by the right OR the left (remember forever the Tara Reade bullshit) should be skunked until they prove themselves worthy of credibility again.
And once more, with gusto, fuck Ken Vogel.
frosty
I don’t think I can take 61 more days of this. Or 61 days and four years. I actually got something accomplished the last three days after I shut the computer off! I’m going to have to shut it off earlier in the day from now on. Hang in there, B-J peeps! See you around for (I hope) 2 hrs max in the AM and 2 more at night.
The Moar You Know
Which cabinet post did Hunter Biden’s laptop get?
jl
@Damien: Funny this previously right wing troll machine suddenly goes full die hard ultra lefty in his critique. But, I guess Trumpster officials are all social justice warriors, I guess I missed that.
jl
@The Moar You Know: There seems to be enough Hunter Biden laptops to fill out all the positions. Funny though, how they go missing whenever you want some work out them. Maybe this goofball should go write a story about that problem.
Gin & Tonic
@Damien: +1
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
All of them, Katie.
Sab
I knew Ken Vogel would be one of the select crew. NYT political side is beyond embarrassment. And I hate to say it, but Nicole Wallace will have him on again and again.
Baud
Sab
Do Ken Vogel’s stories even survive a six hour new cycle before the fact checkers blow them up?
Anya
Isn’t that the guy who block half of Twitter because they asked him questions? He even blocked Josh Marshall. Fuck that guy.
Yarrow
Related, this post by Jay Rosen over at PressThink charts a possible way forward based on how journalists behaved after the election. Excerpt:
As terrible as our press has become they showed they know a different way. Or at least some of them do. Maybe they can build on that.
Ryan
Wasn’t September 2019 about the last time we saw Vogel on MSNBC?
Sab
Ken Vogel : Tara Reade is a real story. Hunter Biden and Burisma was more than a well comnected lawyer getting a job he is qualified for. Hunter Biden, living in CA had his laptop repaired at some small shop on the east coast for some reason.
Sab
@Ryan: Nope. So him within the last month.
Redshift
@jl:
I remain skeptical that it made any significant difference (nor “socialism,” sorry, Alison Spanberger.) I first became political active in the heyday of centrism, when far too many Democrats were sure if they figured out just the right way of talking, Republicans wouldn’t be able to find something to use against them. It never worked (if there wasn’t something there, they’d just make something up, like “radical socialist”), and it made Dems sounds mealy-mouthed like they didn’t really believe anything. So, maybe a few people would have been convinced by more perfect language, but not enough to make any difference.
JustRuss
So the “libertarian” model of journalism is to be a PR flack’s wet dream. Good to know.
Leto
@Yarrow: Agreed. The press, overall, needs to an overhaul in how they do coverage. We’ll see how much they’ve learned moving forward.
Kathleen
@Leto: Chuck Todd rips his script right from the fax machine (for some reason I see him struggling with emails and opening WORD attachments.) BUT THEY ALL GET THE SAME SCRIPT! It’s like going to any Catholic Church in the world in the 1950’s knowing the Mass will be the same one you attended in Wichita.
TS (the original)
@BruceFromOhio:
I get so sick of the b.s. surrounding – well trump did wrong things, so now democrats must be perfect.
Looking at the US election from afar – it is astounding that the President of the country regarded by many as the centre of democracy in our world, is fighting to become a dictator, with help from a long term political party & at least 40% of the population. I’ve been watching (with much or little interest) US elections since 1960 and allowing this tinpot moron to flout all rules of a democracy is insane. Add in playing golf while covid spreads unchecked across the land, insane is only half of it.
He should be treated as were the republicans on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers – mocked and ridiculed and called out for the nonsense that he is.
It will take more than 8 years for the US to undo the disaster that has been trump – at least 80 million people have been smart enough to want to start the recovery.
As for the media – they have done so much to make themselves trump sycophants from the first time they allowed their reporters to be kept in a cage at the back of a trump rally. I would hope Biden and his administration refuse to talk to any of them “off the record” and refuse to talk to some of them on the record. They squandered their role – and may they live to regret it.
Mary G
I blasted Vogel & the FTFNYT on Twitter, but this seems like it might be more important:
They caught it out in their communities, not at work.
pajaro
Vogel’s post is unbelievably bad faith. None of the people he describes have spent most of their careers in the private sector. Describing the African-American Congressman, who went to a HBC, served as a state representative and then a Congressman and was the head, for a year of the Congressional Black Caucus as the receipient of oil contributions, without mentioning that he’s from LOUISIANA, ffs, is disgraceful. Klain has spent most of his career in public service as has JOD. This is Hillary Clinton gave a speech before bankers level of bullsxxt.
Delk
Get Mayor Pete and Lt Gov Fetterman to take turns shutting him down every time he opens his mouth or puts his fingers on a keyboard.
Gin & Tonic
@pajaro:
Clearer.
Redshift
@Yarrow:
Unless I’m reading this wrong, she’s saying they switched to “defense of democracy” at the precise moment when it looked like Trump would no longer have the power to make their lives difficult. That doesn’t inspire confidence that it’s a principled decision to adopt a “new model.”
Leto
@Mary G: I want to say it was on the 9pm MSNBC slot, but Ali Velshi had a hospital administrator on who was saying the same thing: his staff/people were more afraid of catching COVID out in the community than at work, and that was such a depressing realization.
karensky
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree 100%
karensky
@Delk: Awesome idea!
kindness
I know what we need to do. We need to create/imply something that the NY Times puts out something so incindiary regarding Donald Trump that all the 3 Percenters, Oath Keepers and Proud Boys goes and burns down the NY Times. Now let us be clear, I am not suggesting we burn down the Times. I wouldn’t participate in that. But if some other crazy shit for brains group did it I would watch the videos.
Martin
@Redshift: That’s how it felt to me as well. They started cutting Trump off the moment they knew who won the election, and not a moment sooner.
Leto
@kindness: I’ll wait till they burn down Fox News first before suggesting they swap targets.
Martin
So, it looks like we have the answer to why everyone at Pentagon got fired.
“A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out”
Basically, the GOP is willing to directly sabotage US national security to set up a 2024 GOP victory. This is treasonous.
debbie
@Martin:
Yeah, I know it’s Trump, but I’m gobsmacked that a president would do this to his own country. I really don’t think this is going to help him in his dreamland 2024.
Sebastian
The reason media is afraid being called liberal is they are afraid of the Flying Monkeys and the Malkins inspecting countertops.
It’s about time assholes like Vogel (didn’t he write other hit pieces re Ukraine already?) shit their pants while an angry mob bangs at their car windows.
Leto
@Martin: I think we’re going to need to expand the DOJ just to deal with everything from the past four years, but even more specifically everything since January. Also new level of hate unlocked.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Martin: @debbie: they’re saying it out loud, if anonymously, and Mitt Romney and Lisa Murkowski and Rob Portman are just twiddling their damn thumbs.
Yarrow
@Martin: It’s not like treason is anything new for these guys.
Raoul Paste
@kindness: And your Internet handle is kindness?
different-church-lady
Bitching about banksters and and corporate democrats = getting back to normal!
Major Major Major Major
Would anybody be interested in a Christmas light reading book club? I want to do Christopher Moore’s The Stupidest Angel, could be convinced to do Hogfather instead.
ETA alternatively something I’ve never read!
Avalie
@Major Major Major Major: Yes, please!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jenna Ellis, partner in ephemeral firm of Giuliani, Ellis, Dewey, Cheatem and Howe
jl
@Redshift: I have to admit that I’m not sure the best way to handle it. I like how Warren handles that kind of thing (IIRC, ‘Oh, give me a break!, Please.”). Not sure if that will work with the whole party.
danielx
Wouldn’t be the FNYT without a few both-sides anklebiters, after all.
But Vogel? Yeah, fuck that guy.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe they can dig up some old coot who read law around 1800 and reanimate him. Will give great arguments for the originalists. And ‘Reanimation!!??’ you ask? Rudy. It can be done.
CaseyL
I’ve just seen two items that are going to drive me insane if I think about them, about the people behind them, and the likely MSM response, for too long.
The Buffalo Chronicle – a RW rag disguised as a newspaper -has run an article claiming that a Philly mobster ran an operation to create 300,000 mail-in ballots for Biden and just sort of “drop them off” at the Philly Convention Center. It’s one of those dumbshit items that fails any sort of rational analysis, but Twitter is loving it and the MSM loves finding its stories on Twitter, so…
The other item is the legal brief that Trump’s legal team filed in one of its Pennsylvania cases. (They really, really want the PA election results overturned.) Marc Elias posted this on his Democracy Docket website and, honestly, you have to read at least part of it. It reads like a straight shot of OANN conspiracy peddling, or a random crazy guy on a streetcorner. Quotes can’t do it justice; if you want to read the vaporings of idiots submitted to an actual court of law, go here .
I really really hate these people. I would actively enjoy seeing them all be covered in honey and slowly devoured by fire ants.
HumboldtBlue
Pretty sure most saw the dog rescued from the floodwaters in Mexico.
That doggo now has a new job with the Marines who rescued him and is officially a part of the Mexican armed forces.
Here’s a poem a Redditor Schnoodledoodledo composed and it’s quite wonderful.
jl
@CaseyL: I for one, am getting a little tired of the disrespect shown to the great, very corrupt GOP political machines of the past. Like, only Dems can whip them up? No way. I think the GOP is the party that had the only one that operated on a national scale in presidential politics: Mark Hanna, who got McKinley elected (shit, another time I should have checked Wiki first, but what the hell, I’ll go check now).
SectionH
@Major Major Major Major: I almost mentioned on your Pratchett post last night that it’s nearly time for my annual Hogfather re-reading, and ask who else might now have that as a “tradition.” But The Stupidest Angel would be fine too. I’d be
Or even better, por qué non los dos?
Dan B
@Martin: The 2024 victory will be a 2023 victory for China in Africa and Asia. Then they’ll exert pressure in the US to open up our economy. The GOP will get the civilian surveillance they’ve dreamed of but they will also be on camera.
Lyrebird
@pajaro: So completely agreed.
How about, “Cedric Richmond, former chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus and co-chair of Biden’s presidential campaign..”
I am discouraged about this. Grateful to Anne Laurie & Jay Rosen and all, but even some of my smartest relatives a) listen to misogynist creep Chris Cilizza, and b) subscribe to the effing Vichy Times.
Bill Arnold
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And now she thinks lying is OK because she’s lying for Jesus, perhaps not even suspecting that she is lying for a Prince of Lies.
Kay
I appreciate the plain language, but it’s “Trump and the Republican Party” who are attempting to overturn democratic election results.
Various GOP entities are joining all the Trump lawsuits. It’s not just “Trump”. It’s “Trump and the Republican Party”.
Both Donald Trump and the Republican Party are demanding that hundreds of thousands of ballots be thrown out.
There is absolutely no precedent for this in the history of the country. We have a President and an a political Party attempting to disenfranchise 2 million people in broad daylight. Just throw the votes out. That’s what they’re asking courts to do.
100% mainstream Republican Party now- they demand to throw out the ballots of +/- 2 million citizens.
Mai Naem mobile
@Anya: ooh, you block somebody on Twitter. How brave. How clever. OMG Josh Marshall can’t get a second anon account and see what you say and then respond with a screen shot of your post. Blocking people us so stupid unless they’re being abusive in some fashion. Just mute them if you don’t like their responses.
Dan B
@Delk: Great suggestion! It would be terrific if we could figure out to promote this on social media.
HumboldtBlue
SiubhanDuinne
@HumboldtBlue:
Isn’t it late in the year for all this pollen to be getting in my eyes?
coin operated
@CaseyL:
tl;dr on that crazy filing…they couldn’t get any of their fraud claims to stick, so they’ve changed course and are filing under the equal protection clause.
And you’re right…it has all the hallmarks of an OANN or Q conspiracy story.
Another Scott
@jl: TIL that “Defund the Police” was a slogan in 1968 around the time of the protests in Chicago and the Chicago 7 trial.
Fresh Air.
Cheers,
Scott.
J R in WV
@debbie:
Trump won’t be able to speak by 2024, much less hold his precious rallies.
He’s on a fast downhill slide into total dementia, nothing can be done for him other than to keep him comfortable. Tuck him in, Ivanka!
Matt
I really hate this type of reductive framing where the media boil down people to one descriptor, which is of course the most negative possible framing: Charles Manson wasn’t just a “cult leader”, he had a band too!
Kay
This is what the Republican Party is backing:
It’s absolutely extraordinary to watch this. The President and an entire US political party are backing throwing out 1.5 million citizen’s ballots and “declaring” Donald Trump the winner.
Every single one of these 1.5 million voters in Pennsylvania should get personal notice that Donald Trump and the Republican Party are, right now, seeking to throw out their votes.
burnspbesq
@Damien:
Preach it, bro.
SectionH
@HumboldtBlue: Awwww! I hadn’t seen the original rescue, or the follow-up, so Thanks. Lucky puppy.
I was just about to post this rescue, no kidding: a tiny owl who was in the huge tree cut down and taken 170 miles to Rockefeller Center to be this year’s Christmas Tree.
zhena gogolia
@Martin:
It feels as if he needs to impeached again, right now.
dww44
@Delk: Exactly. Best ones to do this. We need to get them in front of the cameras even more. I’ve had enough of the Vogel sort of BS.
HumboldtBlue
Joy Ann Reid is not suffering fools today.
@SiubhanDuinne:
Nice to see a happy ending.
@SectionH:
I saw the owl story as well. As Betty said on Twitter “if that isn’t a Xmas story…”
Major Major Major Major
@SectionH: @Avalie:
Thanks. Yeah, the Pratchett thread is what reminded me to reread Hogfather one of these days. Then I remembered a dear departed friend who would read The Stupidest Angel every December, and I decided I wanted to do that instead… the Venn diagram for those books feels close to a circle.
Was also thinking about both, but not gonna LEAD with “read two books with me!”
Dan B
@zhena gogolia: Along with Barr.
burnspbesq
@Redshift:
You’re dead wrong. “Defund the police” was an own goal of epic proportion. There is no doubt that it cost the Dems House and state Assembly seats in Texas.
Mai Naem mobile
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: every time I see the name Jenna Ellis I think its related to Dubbya because u believe Laura’s mom’s name was Jenna Ellis.
Baud
@burnspbesq:
It’s not an “own goal,” because it’s not a Dem slogan.
Kay
I’m not a journalist, but it seems to me the only political story in the country is the story about how Donald Trump and the Republican Party are suing to throw out votes and have Donald Trump “declared” the winner.
Absolutely unprecedented, in all of US history. 50 years from now, people will be able to read the court record of this. They’ll be able to read lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit where Trump and various Republican organizations are demanding that the candidate who lost be “declared” President.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: it was elevated by many high profile democrats and became a rallying cry for several very loud activist groups. The democratic coalition can have an own-goal even if it’s not about a slogan trademarked by the DNC.
ETA my normie family members in denver were getting questions about it from their undecided-voter friends
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia: Do we impeach the Soviet shitpile mobster conman a second time before or after we fire this entire Soviet shitpile mobster crime family into the Sun?
Baud
@Kay:
And the impurities of Biden’s leadership team, of course.
different-church-lady
@burnspbesq: If you combine “defund the police” with the endless images of graffiti in Portland the other side was spoon fed, you start to get an understanding of how the junior-league fascist candidate got 72 million votes.
The world in their bubble looks extremely different from our bubble.
Kay
50 years from now, people will ask about these court records- these demands to declare the loser the winner and throw out millions of votes – and we’ll say “well, we were told Donald Trump and the Republican Party didn’t mean it“.
What?
different-church-lady
@Baud: Correct. But it was a brush that dem candidates got tarred with nonetheless.
J R in WV
@coin operated:
Yes, all this. Plus, I noticed Rudy didn’t even get the correct political party in his pleading. He refers to the “Democrat” party over and over. If I am not mightily mistaken there was no Democrat party in the last election.
The Democratic party, now, on the other hand, was involved. But that’s not who Rudy is attacking, is it>?
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
But any Texas Dems? I don’t know what we do if the entire party is burdened with the point of view of one minority segment.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: obviously the *real* post mortems are still being written. But from what I’ve read a lot of the south Texas voters just liked that Trump’s name was on their COVID bucks check. They’re not super politically engaged
What you do, if there’s an activist viewpoint that’s dragging down the party in a nationalized election, is push back against it. Biden did. Not a lot of other high-tier Dems did.
gwangung
@Major Major Major Major:
It was a major rallying cry of several major activist groups, none of which were small and several of which were broad coalition of groups spanning various economic classes and ethnic groups. All of these groups are natural Democratic constituencies.
It would have been equally an “own goal” for Democratic candidates to disclaim loudly enough to sever themselves from them (I believe the term is called “hippie punching”).
Yarrow
@burnspbesq: Concur. It was a terrible slogan. It supposedly doesn’t mean what it says and when you’re explaining you’re losing. It sounds scary, like there won’t be any police. People don’t like that.
@Baud: “Burdened with”? It’s not like Dems don’t have agency. Figure out how to fight such dumbassery. It’s not going to stop.
Baud
@gwangung:
Well, Biden clearly did it successfully.
Baud
@Yarrow:
I have no idea what your saying. Our agency is not the point. “Figure it out” isn’t particularly helpful advice.
Kay
@Baud:
Pennsylvania has a GOP Senator. The Pennsylvania Senator will not defend 1.5 million Pennsylvania voters from Donald Trump.
His Party is attempting to throw out hundreds of thousands of votes in his state, and not only doesn’t he do anything, he can’t even bring himself to express mild displeasure with it. On board with throwing out Pennsylvania votes, Senator Toomey. He’s backing that.
Honestly, I can’t imagine what Democrats could do that is worse than what Republicans are doing, right now, as we speak, day after day after day. They’re attacking their own constituents.
gwangung
@Baud: Then that suggests other politicians could have done it as well.
Now that I think about, the places where that slogan worked against Democrats are areas where the candidates should have been able to detach themselves more successfully. In deep blue areas, Dems can actually run on that slogan—but since all politics are local, then Dems in purple areas can and should have severed themselves from it.
Major Major Major Major
@gwangung:
So when Biden prominently and repeatedly said “we’re not gonna defund the police” did he cross a line? He even often followed it with a pitch for more and better police.
ETA: I see Baud beat me to it.
The fact is, it’s a nationalized election and the party position probably should have been “community policing, not defunding” triangulation. The Squad can run against the party position then, they’re good at it, and the rest of the candidates can say “look how nutty those Squad folks are! I’m not like them, I’m a normal democrat.”
Defund The Police is an activist slogan, even they admit it doesn’t mean “defund” “the police”, it’s awful national politics.
Kayla Rudbek
@HumboldtBlue: Diane Duane is going to write a story about this: https://twitter.com/dduane/status/1329140062597115904?s=20
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: “What’s it gonna take? Does Ghouliani have to lose what’s left of his mind outside of Six Flags Magic Mountain?”
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: You could see that happening back in June. I was chastised by many back then, for pointing out the obvious that Defund the police was a shitty slogan.
HumboldtBlue
@Kayla Rudbek:
Perfect.
@mrmoshpotato:
He dropped what was left of his mind outside Four Seasons Landscaping.
debbie
@Kay:
Smells like vintage Trump.
I can’t imagine this would ever be successful, but even if it were, 1.5 million votes would not be enough for a win. What else would he need to do to win?
I’m worrying about all the damage these firings will do to the country.
gene108
@Baud:
Doesn’t matter.
It got associated with Democrats, because Democrats are sympathetic to these groups, and will listen to them.
I do not know how to fix this lack coordination, because we are not adopting the Republican Astro-turf model of mass protests.
dmsilev
@Kay: And it’s not like he’s quavering in fear of a primary challenge either. He’s retiring once his term is up.
As bad as the Trump lawsuit in PA is, NV is arguably worse. There, the campaign just flat out says the judge should throw out all of the votes and just declare Trump the winner. I really wish reporters would start asking elected Republicans specifically whether they support disenfranchising all of Nevada, rather then letting them coast with vague nothings about ‘the legal process’ or whatever.
planetjanet
@gwangung: I don’t think you can run on that slogan anywhere for a general election. It may get traction in a low turnout primary when only activists are engaged. It sounds like you want to completely eliminate the police. Bad slogan. There is worth to the underlying concept to but it is bad messaging.
Major Major Major Major
@gene108: what works well for the GOP is describing their policies as common sense hard working apple pie, called the American Apple Pie For All Americans Act, which actually auctions off the right to hunt you for sport. We could try something similar, but less, you know.
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: What little he didn’t scream out at the 2016 RNC. What a shitshow.
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
High-tier Democrats did not bear the brunt of the disinformation campaign about “defund the police”.
It was down ballot Democrats that got hurt. Those without the media platform to build their own narrative, like Biden has been able to.
It’s a line, which I do not know how to tread, where we must respect and listen to these activists as valuable members of our coalition, while not alienating a bunch of other potential voters, ie political “normies”.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: What is the basis for throwing out these votes? “Cause they smell funny?”
Baud
@gene108:
@Major Major Major Major:
We don’t know how to goose progressive (esp. young) turnout without scaring other potential voters, and we don’t know how to win over other voters without leaving progressive (youth) uninspired. It’s a perennial problem.
prostratedragon
@jl:
Big Bill Thompson, Chicago’s last Republican mayor, held office and ran a Republican machine during the Capone era.
gwangung
@planetjanet: I think what I’m pointing out is that the antipathy to the phrase isn’t well grounded. It makes no sense to me to claim simultaneously that it’s an “own goal” when no one used it as part of the campaign. Or that it hurt candidates in purple areas when the national candidate was able to sever himself from it.
As a policy, the slogan doesn’t work. As an encapsulation of decades of frustration against institutional intransigence, it perfectly summarizes the feelings of communities frustrated with the promise of continued police brutality (and the near guarantee the police unions will be thumbing their noses at the population they supposedly serve).
Redshift
@different-church-lady:
None of which says anything about how the effect of that is different from those endless images and bubble without the slogan. To the Fox audience, cities across the country were burning for months. The thing that gave that oomph was images of scary black people in the streets, and they would have tarred Dems with it regardless.
gene108
@Major Major Major Major:
Their voters respond well to pictures of men in pickup trucks hauling hay, and mom baking apple pies, like a scene from a 1950’s advertisement.
I just wish we somehow could have the majority of our voters react positively to certain imagery, so do not need to go into lengthy policy details, and we can easily sell:
PsiFighter37
Fuck the NYT. I keep a subscription largely because I think most of their news team does a good job, and both my wife and I love their cooking section…but goddamn. They are all about seedy access journalism at the end of it. I would think that their failure when they did a flashy documentary on selecting their editorial choices, when at the end of the day, Biden winning over their elevator operator’s vote, should encapsulate just how meaningless and worthless their self-declared self-importance is.
Also, fuck MAGA Habs. She is the absolute worst. Worse than all the stenographers that existed during Dubya’s era as well.
Gravenstone
@Martin: @debbie: Trump isn’t doing this by himself. He has zero clue which levers to push to get to that supposed end. Identify the people feeding him those targets, then prosecute. Sedition doesn’t seem too much of a stretch as an opening charge.
PsiFighter37
@Kay: Pat Toomey doesn’t give a shit. He is a Club for Growth guy, and he went to DC to do exactly what he wanted – give away gobs of money to corporations. Now that it’s done, he has already announced he is not running for reelection. I sincerely hope John Fetterman or Josh Shapiro takes his place. In an off-year, I think Fetterman might stand a better shot of holding the seat.
Aleta
Freely offered to the NYT for their article
gene108
@Baud:
Young people just need to grow up faster?
SectionH
@Major Major Major Major: … not gonna LEAD with “read two books with me!”
That’s undoubtedly wise. ;-> I’m up for whatever you can get ppl interested in.
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
Don’t be over sensitive — you were chastised by a few loud commenters, not many, not here.
You are a popular commenter with a great record of informing us about many issues!
Baud
@gene108:
The problem isn’t they’re always making new young people.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: and those young people make ever stranger new music, and ever more complicated shoes!
meanwhile, I don’t think I’ve seen a cranberry sauce war here, and I think it has Tbogg potential
jl
@Baud: Young people are notorious breeders of older people.
In the past the GOP figured that it could skim off enough aging youngsters as they bought their own nice houses in nice suburbs, got themselves upscale cars, got that pension to protect.
Gosh golly, who gets that shit anymore? Our oligopolistic masters got too greedy and nothing to spare to lure these dang kids these days. They’re getting no ‘my stuff’ to worry about losing
Edit: point being, that the GOP needs to start handing some stuff out to aging youngsters. But seems like it got grouchy and greedy and ain’t in the mood anymore. Or forgot how.
gene108
@Redshift:
The initial peaceful protests, in response to George Floyd’s murder, were well received by the general public. The whole fucking world joined in with Black Lives Matter protests.
When the folks that just want to break shit got involved, and smashed open stores where people ran in and looted, or they set buildings on fire, etc., is when public perception started changing.
The “defund the police” slogan just compounded matters regarding public perception.
Edit: In a non-election year, I am not sure how much the slogan matters, because other issues will come to the forefront by election time.
Baud
@Baud:
Isn’t = is
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I just make the version on the bag of Ocean Spray cranberries. It’s simple and easy and delicious. I hate the canned stuff. But I also hate over-elaborate “gourmet” versions
ETA: No citrus peel in my cranberry sauce, please!
Baud
@jl:
It’s a vicious cycle.
prostratedragon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: [Sigh] Here goes: I get a bag of fresh cranberries and do what it says on the bag. It never gets thrown out. If you want, pineapple, orange, etc., can be added, but when I had it and it came out well, the chef had made it days in advance, I think at least a week, and allowed it to cure in the fridge. And though I did like it, it was kind of a gilded lily.
jl
@gene108: ” When the folks that just want to break shit got involved ”
I remember news reports that the first ones in on that were the boogaloo boys and other fascist outfits. Black bloc dudes were slow off the mark that one time.
Kay
@debbie:
Well, the firings and also the fact that one of the two major political parties in the United States is seeking to install Donald Trump by judicial fiat, perhaps for another term, perhaps for life, no one knows.
planetjanet
@gwangung: The slogan was effectively used as a weapon, because it was an emotional appeal to fear. It does not need to be rational to have that effect. It also does not need to have the official sanction of a particular candidate to be used against that candidate. All it takes is “some Democrats say.. or some liberals say…” and then make the candidate defend against it. There is a broad coalition of Democrats and we all matter. But we have to recognize that messaging matters.
jl
@Baud: ” It’s a vicious cycle. “
The GOP wants to put and end to it here in the US. Glad someone is finally tackling that problem
Bill Arnold
Has anybody linked this yet?
https://www.senatordavidperdue.com/
The life history section starts with this:
Another Scott
ScienceMag:
tl;dr – 1) Herd Mentality won’t work; 2) There’s still a lot that we don’t know about SARS-CoV-2 and how it acts on the body.
Cheers,
Scott.
trnc
Yup, and at least partially because some people don’t like the word “reform” anymore.
Mai Naem mobile
@Redshift: I do think ‘defund the police’ cost us seats. ‘Defund the police’ is a horrible slogan and not even accurate. People want police training reformed not defunded. I am convinced that the riots that just happened to occur the time around of the BLM protests were started by proud boy type agitators for political purposes. I occasionally.read my Next door stuff in my neighborhood and there was quite a bit of negative stuff about ‘defund the police.’ If you know how Next door works, you know its way harder to be a bot on Next door than Twitter or FB so this wasn’t bots. People really seemed to believe ‘defund the police’ meant there weren’t going to be cops around. You can say these people are dumb but that’s the way it is.
I don’t think ‘socialism’ cost us seats. If you believe that crap you were never going to vote for Dems anyway.
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cranberries, sugar, water. Simple, tasty, and always gets consumed.
planetjanet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, I make mine fresh with a little orange rind, but half the sugar. I brought some to my cousin’s house last year and she just loved it.
trnc
Unprecedented to see it laid out explicitly as a strategy, but it shouldn’t come as a complete surprise. It’s the next logical step after several election cycles spent declaring that an electoral vote win coupled with a popular vote loss translates to “Fuck what most voters think.”
trnc
@Mai Naem mobile: Yes, that’s pretty much the way I saw it.
L85NJGT
I just watched Jonathan Scott’s Power Trip. (Yes, 1/2 of the “Property Brothers”). The film makes the case for renewable energy far better than any campaign slogan. It’s a comprehensive look at power generation, the utility industry, and how it all relates to environmental and economic justice. Highly recommended.
debbie
@Gravenstone:
Might explain Barr’s low profile recently.
Mai Naem mobile
This is a serious question What happened to Rudy Giuliani? I didn’t buy into ‘America’s Mayor’ but was he always this awful? I remember him being a serious guy. A racist and overly law and order, but serious nonetheless. This current Rudy is like a caricature. Its like he’s playing an SNL version of himself. Does he have dementia? He doesn’t even to be in on the joke. It’s kind of sad/horrific.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mai Naem mobile: I’m not a NYer but my recollection is that in the year or so before 9/11– as he was fighting to move his wife and kids out of Gracie Mansion so he could move his girlfriend in– he was becoming increasingly a joke, but he was on his way out so people cut him a lot of slack. He rode 9/11 and the strength and courage people projected on to him in those moments for far longer than he should have been able to. I remember him speaking at the ’04 convention and he was just a jerk. Bernie Kerik got arrested soon after. He flamed out in the GOP primary, and he was basically selling reverse mortgages between ’08 and ’17, and apparently drinking a lot more. Even trump thought too little of him to give him a Cabinet job, and trump wanted to put Andrew Napolitano on the Supreme Court.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: there’s sort of no such thing as increasing youth turnout, so it would make sense to focus elsewhere.
Sebastian
@zhena gogolia:
Was thinking of exactly that.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Cranberry sauce is special, and should be made with care.
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Avalune makes hers with cranberry’s and pears. Technically it’s a compote, but it’s not a gelatinous goop. She got it from a woman who writes canning cookbooks and it’s been a hit ever since.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@prostratedragon:
I have a killer cranberry margarita recipe – I buy extra bags to freeze.
Amir Khalid
@Mai Naem mobile:
Senile dementia does seem likely. Then again, Rudy’s been acting hinky for a long long time.
planetjanet
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Please share.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@planetjanet:
THIS!
planetjanet
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Linky no worky. The suspense is killing me.
Barbara
@Mai Naem mobile:He has always had a messy private life but his law and order reputation met the moment for NYC in the 90s, and 9/11 propelled him for quite a while. His errors in judgment became hard to overlook (Kerik) and many Bush administration officials distanced themselves as a result. He goes back a long way with Trump. My understanding at this point is that he’s desperate for money.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@planetjanet:
Basically, take two cups frozen cranberries, a cup of sugar, 1/2 cup fresh lime juice, a cup of orange juice, half a cup of Cointreau and a cup of tequila, and ice. Frappe the sucker. It makes a mess because it fills the blender….
planetjanet
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Thank you. I will have to try that, minus the frappe. I don’t have a blender.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
But— but— Wild in the Streets.
:)
@Leto
I prepare it using just a scant few ingredients besides cranberries, sans any water at all, in the microwave and let it gel in the fridge overnight. To (thus far) unanimous acclaim.
Easy clean up, as it’s made in the same bowl from which it will be served. All there is to wash afterward is one potato masher and one spoon.
Sebastian
@Mai Naem mobile:
He was. There is the time when he incited a police riot because NYC mayor Dinkins wanted a civilian oversight board for police misconduct.
Washington Post
And then there is the time when he wanted to stay mayor beyond his term limit because 9/11. That’s the story everybody heard and wrote about at the time. Turns out he wanted the entire election cancelled.
More at the links.
Amir Khalid
There must have some new update to Windows or Firefox or both. (Both update automatically for me, so I don’t notice them much.) But I can now use flag emojis. ?? Yes!
Kent
Every one of them would have lost their jobs in January anyway. Except maybe the cybersecurity guy.
SiubhanDuinne
@Amir Khalid: My apologies to you, but I have never paid sufficient attention to the Malaysian flag before now. I found the symbolism interesting (from Wikipedia):
You know all this, of course, but I didn’t. Congratulations on your patriotic new emoji!
West of the Rockies
Can GSA rogue administrator Emily Murphy be fired by Biden when he assumes power?
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Trivia:
Mozambique is the only country whose national flag includes a depiction of an assault rifle.
Matt McIrvin
@West of the Rockies: I’m pretty sure she’s a political appointee. Her job ends with the inauguration.
Leto
@NotMax: yeah, we put it in canning jars and after turkey day, we use it as a topping for so many things! :)
chopper
@West of the Rockies:
certainly.
Gin & Tonic
@West of the Rockies: My understanding is she’s a political appointee, so she’s gone on Jan 20.
Another Scott
tl;dr – Fight for every seat, and make them fight for seats too. No gimmes.
Cheers,
Scott.
West of the Rockies
@Matt McIrvin:
Good. I hope she faces some sort of painful repercussions. Thanks also, Chopper.
Kent
She’s a political appointee, so yes. She would have been fired in any case. Biden probably already has someone in mind for that job and would have regardless of this controversy
It’s rare that any political appointees extend their term beyond that of the president who appointed them. In normal administrations, some of the more competent ones are sometimes asked to stick around a bit longer to assist with the transition. But I doubt any Trumper falls into that category.
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
There’s a story on the CNN website that’s full of quotes from unnamed friends and colleague praising Emily Murphy’s professionalism and conscientiousness to the skies. Hmm …
Another Scott
@Matt McIrvin: Yup, GSA Administrator is in the Plum Book (so named for the cover color).
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
who’s that gomer in Texas who’s offering a million dollars for evidence of voter fraud? Will this get me a check?
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: Nevertheless, if I were a betting man, I wouldn’t put money on her continued employment at GSA under President Biden.
NotMax
Now that’s strange – on the front page the sidebar is not there, it’s down at the bottom of the page. Still where it’s supposed to be on comments page.
mrmoshpotato
Suggested title for the movie version – The Fuckfaces Who Couldn’t Fuckface Straight: SAD!
This really is a goddamned farce now. They should all fire themselves into the Sun.
Gin & Tonic
@NotMax: Can it still be a sidebar if it’s at the bottom?
FYI, I am seeing this too, Chrome/Windows.
Barbara
@NotMax: This got me thinking that there must be other countries that use images of weapons in their flags. Here is what I found:
Angola (machete)
Guatemala (rifles)
Haiti (canons)
Kenya (spears)
Saudi Arabia (saber)
Many have shields and use the color red to represent the blood that was shed by patriots to gain independence.
Found at cia.gov of all places.
Another Scott
@mrmoshpotato: The lawyers apparently didn’t sign for themselves in the amended complaint, but they signed for the judge.
They seem to have Lionel Hutz on their team.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Guffaw. He’s so incredibly sanctimonious and scolding I was sure he at least lived in Missouri.
He got me! I admit it. Some of them are better liars than others.
Peale
@mrmoshpotato: there’s also a big ass typo in there in which they refer to the “second amended complaint” that they are filing as the “second amendment complaint”. Who are these people.
Captain C
@Barbara:
In his most recent divorce (either just happened or still happening), court papers revealed his monthly burn rate is nearly a quarter million dollars. No wonder he’s supposedly asking for $20K/day from Trump.
Barbara
@Kay: One would think he could rent a one bedroom somewhere in Missouri, but he is probably better off staying in hotels when he visits the state, since those can be expensed and an actual residence could not be.
Kay
The Republican Party is seeking to “nullify” an election and install their cult leader.
Just another day in America. This is what they worked on today- declaring the cult leader “the winner”, I can only assume for life because why recognize terms when they don’t recognize elections? Getting rid of term limits will be moderate compared to this.
Don Jr. can then take the throne when Trump keels over on the golf course.
mrmoshpotato
@Another Scott: Yup. And this would be hilarious if it weren’t actually trying to keep an actual Soviet shitpile mobster crime family in actual control of an actual government.
Barbara
@Peale: People who trust utterly in spellcheck?
mrmoshpotato
Who are these people? Only the bestest, bigliest-brained assclowns around!
What kind of absolute idiot do you have to be to burn down your career for a traitorous orange shitpile, and in such a stupid, stupid fashion?*
*Not meaning to sound sympathetic. These morons should be pelted with fish guts.
ellie
Yes, please!
Peale
@Kay: I just don’t see how they think they can nullify votes for president only and not throw out their congressional delegation. Fine. Nevada throws out its electors. They shouldn’t get to have any Congressmen either. They didn’t have an election.
Barbara
@mrmoshpotato: Nevada isn’t close. Biden is ahead by two plus percentage points. It’s not a big state.
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: To this non-lawyer that looks like they forged the judge’s signature. I would imagine that the judge will get pretty prickly about that.
Kay
While the Republican Party attempted to throw out +/- 2 millions votes today, and sometime after they attempted to “nullify” the election and “declare” Donald Trump the leader, their senators spent the day complaining that the NYTimes food section said that Thanksgiving might not have happened exactly as it has been portrayed.
Their big concern is not that the name of their Party is listed on caption after caption of court cases seeking to throw out votes and install an unelected (cult) leader, no, the big concern of the national “conservative movement” today is the NYTimes food section. The food section is very liberal. Maybe too liberal? They think so.
mrmoshpotato
@Barbara: Proofreading? What’s that? You mean like the alcohol precentage?
Another Scott
@mrmoshpotato: The chaser:
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Peale:
Maybe they’re going to shoot the judge if he doesn’t rule in their favor.
Another Scott
(via Popehat)
Stay safe out there folks…
Cheers,
Scott.
mrmoshpotato
Awesome! LOL!
Another Scott
Continuing the theme…
(via Popehat – and yes, there’s a RICO mention.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Mary G
IANAL, but this response from Trump’s lawyer to Rick Hasan seems like utter bullshit:
Judges still affix seals? What are we, making America 1895 again?
sanjeevs
Is this another quid pro quo? Didn’t Obrador tacitly endorse Trump for reelection?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/attorney-general-barr-wants-to-drop-us-drug-case-against-former-mexican-defense-minister.html
prostratedragon
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Hmm, intriguing. Don’t drink much alcohol, but have a sort of non-alcoholic mojito that I make with mint and a robust golden ginger ale/beer and call a Bowen Avenue cooler (non-alcoholic mojito sounds pretty wack). Something with cranberries might be a nice seasonal alternative.
jl
@Kay: ” their senators spent the day complaining that the NYTimes food section said that Thanksgiving might not have happened exactly as it has been portrayed. ”
Since we know almost nothing about what happened at the first Thanksgiving, other than they ate a shitload of roasted meat, corn and squash, boiled seafood, and fall berries of some sort, the only patriotic thing is to make up whatever you want.
The modern custard pumpkin pie wasn’t invented until the 1890s. The original old school pumpkin ‘pie’ from Central America was chopped up pumpkin, nuts, and honey roasted in carved out pumpkin carcass, and the Whites adopted that style. White people fancied it up with the precursor of modern pumpkin spice, which came from earlier Italian and French old school pumpkin pies, which is where sweet sliced pumpkin pie in a crust came from, in addition to the original idea of stuffing chopped pumpkin meat into its own carcass.
One of the huge culinary wars in US history was the battle between the New England abolitionist pumpkin pie, and the patriotic Southern sweet potato pie, neither or which back in the day, were custards.
So, the bottom line is that unless you agree with some random BS a GOP Senator spews out, you are a commie and hate America.
Kay
@sanjeevs:
Yuck. They’re all so incredibly sleazy. We’ll have to be really rigorous and make a lot of noise if any of them ever get government jobs again. They should be barred from public employment once the eviction action is complete and they’re all forced to leave the cult bunker.
jl
I am in favor of bringing back seafood boils into Thanksgiving. I may do that this year, even if it’s just a couple of us commies saying hi to the relatives over zoom. Don’t tell Tom Cotton. Please.
prostratedragon
@Sebastian: Thanks for the reminder about the police riot, which should never be allowed to go down the memory hole as long as Rudy’s around (at least). All he needed to do for me, with no coming back.
Bill Arnold
@Peale:
I adore that typo. Thank the scriptwriter(s). :-)
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.172.0_1.pdf
Omnes Omnibus
@Peale: Fuck me to tears. These people are too fucking stupid to dress themselves in the morning.
Bill Arnold
@Kay:
They are insane.
They are also assuming that the Second Amendment is just for white racist males. It is not.
(Though that was arguably the original intent,.)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Guess we know where that places you, jl.
prostratedragon
Nicholas Brothers alert: TCM is showing Stormy Weather right now. In keeping with an old custom from sundown towns in the 1940s, I will note that the Brothers will have a special appearance about 90 minutes from now;<)
Chris T.
Do we read Christmas lights as if they were books, or do we use Christmas lights to read books, or do we read light books during Christmas, or what?
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris T.: Why limit yourself?