Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Let’s finish the job.

Glad to see john eastman going through some things.

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Books are my comfort food!

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

Come on, man.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Every day Vance writes another chapter in the book called “Worst VP Pick Ever”.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Can we lighten up on the doomsday scenarios?

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

“They not like us!” (that’s for sure!)

You are here: Home / Elections / Biden-Harris 2020 / Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Work Continues

Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Work Continues

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263Comments

  1. 1.

    debbie

    As distressing as Trump’s behavior and actions are, I really feel it will all backfire on him. He will not gain one single supporter, but will lose plenty of those “shy” Trump supporters.

  4. 4.

    John S.

    @Baud: It really does. I need to work on my own “no drama” game. I’m a very passionate person, but that doesn’t always serve me well.

  7. 7.

    Baud

    I was hoping Mnemosyne would return to us after the election.

    Looks like she’s found a new path.  Godspeed, M.

  8. 8.

    mrmoshpotato

    How much winning is scheduled for today?

    And by “winning,” I mean “bashing the Soviet shitpiles over their fat, orange, fascist heads with their own stupid lawsuits.”

    Merriam-Webster, call me.

  9. 9.

    WereBear

    @satby:

    Good morning campers! Time to feed the feral kitties.

     
    Good morning back! Despite sleep challenges last night, a few days rest and I’m ready to wrestle Antaeus. Again.

  15. 15.

    mrmoshpotato

     

    -make opponents lose the last remaining bit of their minds apparently 

    @debbie:

    Hahaha.

    Oh Lindsay, are you gonna try to flee with the orange assclown?

  17. 17.

    Suzanne

    @debbie: He’ll lose his super-feral asshole fans, though. They are the kind of people who see any sort of acknowledgement of reality as weakness. They’re toxic.

    Might be time for a round of antibiotics for the body politic.

  22. 22.

    germy

    As far as I’m concerned, it’s President Biden, not President-Elect Biden.

    And I hope Ken Vogel Toobins himself.

  23. 23.

    mrmoshpotato

    @NotMax: Don’t even need to read the details. Whoever is responsible for that monstrosity should have to eat a handful every waking hour until they scream for this horror to be discontinued and buried in the depths of time.

  29. 29.

    leeleeFL

    @germy: I wondered if, collectively, we could send him a rusty pitchfork and invite him to fuck himself with it?  Get started early?

  32. 32.

    JAFD

    Good morning, fellow jackals !

    Is sunny and clear day in New Jersey, but high temp only predicted to hit 47 F.  Must trek out to eyedoctor this afternoon.  Need to pick up loaf of bread somewhere along way.

    Hope all of youse happy and healthy !

    (I’ve gotta wake up sometime today…)

  36. 36.

    debbie

    @Suzanne:

    We’ll well beyond antibiotics. Like gangrene, they need to be cut out.

    And NPR just reported that those GOP Wayne County canvas board members want to change their minds again, back to not certifying Detroit. What the fuck?

  37. 37.

    raven

    Here’s How to Think About the Danish Mask Study
    — What the DANMASK-19 trial showed and didn’t show about mask use and COVID-19
     

    Final thoughts? I have a few. Masks are not parachutes. Their effect size at best is going to be modest. Every time you muster the breath to advise someone to wear a mask, advise handwashing, distancing, and avoiding indoor gatherings too. Next, have some perspective on masks. Whether or not they work indoors with prolonged contact among adults is one thing, but they surely do nothing if children are outdoors playing in the rain. And yet, the state of Washington has mandated that youth sports wear masks when playing outside in the Seattle winter at all times. No one would even do a randomized trial of this strategy, as it is openly foolish. The moment the mask gets wet, it’s useless and that is just one of the problems. Let us save our breath for the recommendations that matter.

    In short, the Danish mask study doesn’t answer every question, but it was well done, thoughtful, useful, and what we need more of. I commend Christine Laine, MD, MPH, and her fellow editors at the Annals of Internal Medicine for publishing it. The investigators will not get the praise they deserve, but I will praise them. They are scientists, and there are still a few of us left breathing who can recognize that.

  39. 39.

    Ken

    @mrmoshpotato: Oh Lindsay, are you gonna try to flee with the orange assclown?

    I’m still expecting Trump to take petty revenge on the Republicans who failed him by dumping whatever dirt he has on them.

  40. 40.

    germy

    @leeleeFL:

    He would just laugh at us. He actually retweeted this:

    When it comes to Trump enabling trash at the New York Times who cannot endure even the mildest criticism, Ken Vogel has always been the tip of the spear.

    — Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) November 18, 2020

    He’s trolling us, and gets off on all the criticism.  I think he’s more of a Republican operative than a reporter, and those people usually have something shady in their pasts.  Maybe it’ll come to light.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    My sister in law in Indiana is sick with covid. She’s far Right and very ‘political’ – she once ran for the state legislature, 2004 or 2006- but I don’t think she was a covid denier. Anyway. I spoke to her last night and she’s in bad shape. I haven’t had any ftf contact with her since last March.

  51. 51.

    satby

    @Baud: Yeah, I know. I quit going there even before their redesign, and I once volunteered to be a staffer for Netroots nation (the last year it was called that).

  52. 52.

    Immanentize

    @Kay: I’m so sorry, Kay.  I hope she is able to get through this.

    On the just and unjust, alike it will rain….

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Colette

    On the anniversary of the start of the Nuremberg trials, 90-year-old Colette Marin-Catherine confronts her past by visiting the Nazi concentration camp in Germany where her brother was killed. As a young girl, she had been a member of the French resistance and had always refused to set foot in Germany. That changes when a young history student named Lucie enters her life. Prepared to reopen old wounds and revisit the terrors of that time, Marin-Catherine offers important lessons

    “If these hills could talk, I think we’d hear screams.”

    It’s 25 mins long, and worth every second of it.

  58. 58.

    satby

    This pandemic will never be under control until the stupid ones die off:

    Tripadvisor reports that over half of Americans – 56% – are planning to leave home for the holiday season even if only 11% of these intend to so by plane.

  60. 60.

    germy

    Meanwhile, in Wayne County

    Wayne County Ethics Board on Monica Palmer:

    "ethics board found that there was enough evidence to move forward for a formal hearing Jan 20th. There is also a formal complaint against her for violating campaign finance laws with her 501c4…could result in jail time."

    womp womp.

    — Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) November 18, 2020

  61. 61.

    NotMax

    FYI. Nordic noir junkies, the first season of Before We Die is free on Prime until the end of the month. Am a skootch over halfway through it. Plot and acting enticing enough to continue, although have found parts of it visually confusing.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @Immanentize:

    I only spoke to her for about a minute- that bad. Her grown son is there – he’s positive too but asymptomatic. We had an argument once about politics – she was drinking, I was not and it was awful- and I promised myself I would never engage on it again and I have kept that promise.

  63. 63.

    David ?Booooooo!? Koch

     

     

    @Gin & Tonic: Some people came over here on election night and thanked us for being calm, sober, and numerate while general neurotic panic broke out at big orange.  Same as it ever was.

  64. 64.

    Ksmiami

    @debbie: Trying to gum up the works but it won’t succeed- what is succeeding is the destruction of our Democracy and I guess I’m just ready to disband the US. We can’t be a nation where 50 percent of ppl live in a fantasy zone. Just build a wall around dumbfuckistan and take away their technology

  67. 67.

    Amir Khalid

    From the CNN story at Drezner’s link:

    A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out.

    This is deliberate sabotage of American foreign policy. Trump’s administration clearly believes that treason done out of partisan spite is good. LOCK’EM UP.

  69. 69.

    Frank Wilhoit

    @debbie: No one who has hated the Democratic Party since 1980 (or perhaps since a later date if they are younger) is going to stop hating the Democratic Party because of anything Trump does or does not do.  Therefore their voting behavior will not change, because it never had anything to do with Trump.

  70. 70.

    germy

    Unfortunately, I’m seeing carelessness in my own family.

    I mentioned my wife’s friend, who took off her mask to enter our house (to use our bathroom).  She put her mask back on when she left our house.  I told my wife I think her friend is not quite bright.

    Now, my wife wants to have our son and his girlfriend over for the holiday.  But the girlfriend decided being a member of a gym is an important thing to do during a pandemic.

    We’re so close to a vaccine; I really don’t want my loved ones catching this virus.  And I’ve been doing everything right since March.  Masks, social distancing, extreme caution.  Putting off necessary repairs and home maintenance.

    But often I can’t control who enters my fucking house.

  71. 71.

    Raven

    We have the urban forestry dudes here to do some pruning on some big trees and take down a dogwood that we have thought was going to die for 20 years!

  74. 74.

    satby

    @NotMax: I may check that out. I was watching Bordertown, but dropped it when the daughter’s story arc started getting ugly. Don’t want to be specific enough for spoilers.

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    No idea why (better class of chemicals?) but the pastel candy corn cranked out at Easter beats the hell out of the Halloween product, taste-wise.

    Not alone in finding that, friends who have inveigled into trying it unanimously concur.

  82. 82.

    Ohio Mom

    I vaguely remember a while back Ruckus reporting that Mnemosyne was fine but busy.

    I wouldn’t expect him to chime in at this hour of the morning, maybe if he shows up later we can ask for an update.

  83. 83.

    germy

    Important News Conference today by lawyers on a very clear and viable path to victory. Pieces are very nicely falling into place. RNC at 12:00 P.M.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 19, 2020

    Sounds legit.

  84. 84.

    NotMax

    @Amir Khalid

    Entirely different color scheme.

    As it’s around Easter time I consider it the bock beer of candy corn. (While you may not grok the bock others might.)

    ;)

  86. 86.

    Steeplejack

    Guess it’s good that I was up super early this morning. At 8:00 a crew rolled up in a big truck out on the street and have been busily trimming trees—and wood-chipping!—ever since.

    Based on past experience, the silver lining is that they waited until 8:00.

  88. 88.

    Betty Cracker

    My brother, who lives fairly close, is a COVID denier. He knows it’s a real thing, but he doesn’t believe it’s that bad and seems to buy into the crackpot theories of Tucker Carlson, et al. He was angry when the bars closed and thinks Ron DeSantis is doing a great job now that everything is reopened and DeSantis is cooking the books. In other words, my brother is a fucking idiot.

    Anyhoo, I haven’t seen him or his kids since March. A couple of days ago, my sister told me he and his children are sick and getting tested. (He told her because she’s a nurse who is married to a doctor, and he’d called them for medical advice.)

    I texted him with offers of sympathy, chicken soup, grocery delivery, etc., and he laughed it off, claiming they have some different sort of flu. My SIL the doctor said she’s pretty sure it’s COVID from his description of the symptoms. They are getting tested for COVID. I asked him to let me know the outcome. Haven’t heard anything yet.

    A lot of my relatives, including my father and aunts and uncles in high risk groups, are being complete idiots, so I am and will continue to avoid seeing them in person until a vaccine is distributed. To a person, they are Republicans.

    My main goal is to ensure my 81-year-old MIL (a Biden voter!) gets through this unscathed. So far, she is being smart about it even though having her wings clipped is painful for her. I’ve accepted that I can’t do anything about the folks who are denying reality. I’ve stopped trying to reason with them.

  89. 89.

    JMG

    Woke up pessimistic today about the GOP’s ability to steal this election for Trump. I know that’s irrational and I probably will feel differently about it later on today, but it’s not pleasant. I am too old for a civil war.

  90. 90.

    Steeplejack

    @germy, @Raven:

    In my own family situation I have been surprised at how strong the pull is to give in and go along, even when your brain is screaming that it’s a stupid thing to do. Yes, the odds are that everyone will laugh at you later about how “paranoid” you were during the big crisis of 2020, but you really don’t want to be one of the ones who’s not around to be laughed it.

    It’s got to be even tougher for those of you who find yourself at odds with a spouse.

  92. 92.

    bluefoot

    @satby: The problem is that the stupid ones keep killing the non-stupid ones with their stupidity. If they would only infect themselves, and then not demand resources while still denying reality, then *maybe* I would be okay with the stupidity.

  93. 93.

    Immanentize

    @Amir Khalid: They set these little events up to distract Trump from injuring himself or others.  I used to think the crazy was to distract us, now I think it goes in the opposite direction.

  94. 94.

    WereBear

    @Amir Khalid:

    A second official tells CNN their goal is to set so many fires that it will be hard for the Biden administration to put them all out.

     
    I figured this, as appalling as it is. I decided this will simply mean “the norms” such as they are and how useless they turned out to be, will be thrown overboard if they get in the way, and we’ll actually get MORE done as a consequence.

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    @germy:   We cannot wait to see where this Important News Conference takes place.  LOL.

    Also, in a more serious vein:  I don’t see how you can take the risk of entertaining a young woman who insists on going to the gym.  Do they live close enough that you could drop off a care package of a Thanksgiving dinner?

    I think people are kidding themselves on how much they can socially distance themselves among their relatives and guests at a holiday dinner, or any event.

    For myself, I just think:  is it worth it to pursue this action, knowing I might end up getting a three-foot long cotton swab stabbed deep up my nostril?

    That usually does it.  I don’t even want to put up with the test, much less the disease.

  98. 98.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @bluefoot: Exactly. I live in an over-55 condo bldg. Following state guidelines, management has begun limiting visitors to two per unit. A neighbor couple is quite put out about this. Their daughters and their families are coming from SC, Kentucky, and Virginia. They’re all going to celebrate Thanksgiving together at the house of another daughter who lives in the area. The neighbors deny that COVID is bad and walk around here with no masks, despite there being a mask mandate. The wife takes her mask off at my book club, which is the primary reason I stopped going, though regulations recently shut it down again anyway.

  100. 100.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Sears repair person showed up yesterday (two weeks ahead of the scheduled appointment!) and the riding mower now seems once again functional. Turns out the replacement starter the last repair person had us order and pre-pay for wasn’t needed after all so will be sent a refund through Sears for that.

    Haven’t been able to undertake a proper mowing since June. Luckily summertime is dry season, so while the bulk of the property isn’t pretty it hasn’t reached Dark Tower status quite yet.

  103. 103.

    Elizabelle

    @OzarkHillbilly:   Hey there Ozark.  Good to know.

    I am not squeamish about needles, or several other procedures, but that nasal swab …. *shiver*

    Wish I could remember what, but you put up some wonderful link maybe 2-4 days ago, and I have been meaning to thank you for it.  But what, what was it??

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker: I’m sorry to hear all this, Betty.  Hope everyone comes through ok.

    I am still having trouble wrapping my head around the concept of “COVID deniers” (as in, ‘how could such people possibly exist in this day and age?’ and ‘it’s the 21st century, right?  we um still do science in this country, right?’)

    Which I guess almost makes me a COVID-denier-incredulous-disbeliever.  =)

    Anyway, hang in there!

  105. 105.

    Jeffro

    @Waldo: truth

    He’s like a kid who brought his Skeletor and He-Man action figures to a chess match and uses them to fling his opponents’ pieces off the board.

    the problem is, there’s no ‘mom’ or ‘dad’ around to tell him to knock it off and either play by the rules or go sit in a corner

  106. 106.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack:

    Her grown son said thinks he got it in rehab and gave it to her. I’m not supposed to know he was in rehab but I did know because my son told me. I don’t know him that well as an adult but he was a really sweet and gentle kid and teenager – I told him not to blame himself- I think he is blaming himself.

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  and @ satby:

    The first item in today’s AL Covid roundup post:  I would print this out, in a larger format, and tape this to your door.  Maybe put it up on a few walls/bulletin boards in your building/@ the market.

    https://twitter.com/tarahaelle/status/1329039061919600640/photo/1

    The “what you say” WRT Covid vs. “what I hear”:

    “Most people don’t die from it; I don’t live in fear….”

    COVID teaches us what selfish and stupid people we live among, and many of them are the ass-in-the-pew sheeple kind of Christians, too.

    I don’t hear this crap often, because Virginia mandates mask-wearing and I no longer have many deplorables in my circle.  But I would memorize these responses, and say them, were I to hear this nonsense.  Fight stupidity with reality.  At least don’t let the deniers pretend they are brave and the realistic ones.

  113. 113.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: I think he is blaming himself.

    It’s natural enough, there’s a part of me that still blames myself for my mother’s death. It’s not logical, but neither is guilt.

  116. 116.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Kay:

    It’s almost impossible to keep track of all of the ways that you can get exposed, which makes it even crazier how people try to hedge their bets. “Well, of course big Thanksgiving dinners are bad, but our little family get-together will be fine.” ?

  117. 117.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I knew he withdrew from Ball State at the end of last year and my son told me it was for in-patient rehab but this must have been another trip to rehab. We used to take her two kids on vacation with us. Their parents wouldn’t come because our vacations are too boring – she told me this which is 1.true and 2. made me laugh. Our lake vacations are like “let’s do exactly what we do at home except at this scenic location” :)

  118. 118.

    NotMax

    @Steeplejack

    Well, there is a machete hanging on the wall in landlady’s garage should it come to that.

    Between the electric weed whacker (which plays hob with my back) and some time spent on the knees with hedge clippers have managed to keep the absolute worst nominally manageable.

    ;)

  119. 119.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    I retired to the bedroom to read on my phone, and now the tree crew has come around to the back of the building to continue their work and keep me company.

  121. 121.

    Barbara

    @Kay: I am sorry about your sister in law.  It is so strange to me that so many people who are willing to accept the most unreasonable of assertions as a matter of faith instantly become doubting Thomases when it comes to things that are pretty much just a matter of biological fact.  It’s a virus.  Some viruses are deadly to some people.

    ETA: You didn’t say that she was a “hoaxer” but the entire midwest’s predicament is driven by those who are.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    COVID fatigue is real.

    And it’s a real problem, at the holidays.  As is nostalgia.

    People look back to the happy gatherings of the past.

    They don’t look forward to the future, with some people getting ill, even dying, and wondering “was I the carrier?  Did I bring that fatal disease home with me?”

    I feel so badly for Kay’s nephew, who returned from rehab.  I wish he would not beat himself up on that.  His mother could have gotten exposed in any number of ways.

    The guilt would be horrible, and could absolutely lead to a relapse.

  124. 124.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Suzanne:  I am a bit surprised Trump hasn’t lost the ferals already since Trump has been The Man for the last four years. I suppose that was because Trump has never seemed to realize he was president so always came across as the outsider.

    That was one of the twisted things about Q-anon were it created this reality were Trump was both the most powerful man in the world and the most helpless one at the same time.

  127. 127.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    We had a big talk about this in court yesterday because I wear a mask always and judge takes hers off on the bench. She asked if this bothered me- it doesn’t- she’s plenty far away up there but I think she should set a good example which I didn’t say. I go to a lot of different courts and judges are always curious about what other judges are doing so I told her others are wearing them on the bench- I named them-  and they’re like everyone else- peer pressure- so that might persuade her.

  131. 131.

    JAFD

    @satby: Good morning, and happy World Philosophy Day, everyone !

    Eye seems to be coming along well, this is post-op checkup, scheduled weeks ago.

  134. 134.

    WaterGirl

    @NotMax: No, I was not aware, thanks.

    The weird sidebar location is now on page 2, not the front page.  This happened last week, also.  It’s the MORE command that is used to show only some of the post above the fold.

    This is the second time in a week that the MORE command has gone rogue.  Last week I had to watch and check post by post to see which of the 7 was the offending post, tried removing the MORE command, and that resolved it.

    This time I immediately looked for a post with the MORE command.  Removed that, and all is well.  thanks.

  135. 135.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Kay:

    I just read a Twitter stream about a trial in Texas ending in a mistrial because more and more participants got COVID. At first they were going to delay, then declared a mistrial when jurors “expressed misgivings” about coming back. I bet they did!

  136. 136.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @NotMax: Speaking as one who likes candy corn, I might have eaten candy corn shaped to look like turkey, green beans, etc. Like marzipan art. But I’d still expect it all to have that generic congealed high-fructose corn syrup flavor (yum!)

    But they use the word “savory”. I don’t want to know what a chemist’s idea of turkey-flavored HFCS tastes like.

  137. 137.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    I have to say that concession video is the first time I ever made it all the way through one of Shit-Golem’s speeches.

  138. 138.

    Immanentize

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    yes, and it was a federal trial in the Eastern District of Texas.  The Eastern District is like Arkansas but in Texas.  Home of the Klan in Texas.  Virulent racists and oil field workkers.  And chicken processing plants!

  141. 141.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @JAFD: happy World Philosophy Day, everyone !

    Descartes is having a glass of wine at the local bar. The bartender approaches him and asks, “would you like another glass, M’sieu?”

    Descartes answers, “I think not.”

    And he disappears.

  142. 142.

    Soprano2

    I see on my FB feed conservative friends posting something about Gavin Newsom going to a birthday party where there were no COVID safeguards observed? Is this true? If so, what a dumbass idiotic thing for him to do.

  143. 143.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    We’ve had so many continued because lawyers were exposed it’s become routine. I realized yesterday it’s all anyone talks about. You don’t have an interaction longer than 30 seconds without it coming up.

  146. 146.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Soprano2: It is true. And it was at The French Laundry (to the uninitiated, one of the country’s most exclusive and expensive restaurants)

  147. 147.

    NotMax

    @Gin & Tonic

    Oddly enough I possess a black ankle length one, with a scarlet red lining. However it is 100% wool so not exactly suited to the tropics.

    ;)

  148. 148.

    Kay

    David Frum
    @davidfrum
    ·52m
    And reform begins with acceptance of some grim and unwanted realities.
    The problems are not “on both sides.”
    The illiberal authoritarianism of some dean of students somewhere is not equivalent to illiberal authoritarianism by the Attorney General of the United States.

    That is what I would say to every “cancel culture warrior”. It’s bad because it makes me think they’re dumb, that they don’t understand real threats because real threats are too scary and imperil “the institutions” they’re part of and rely on to feel okay and safe. They have to insist it’s working because it not working is too scary.

  150. 150.

    Gin & Tonic

    @NotMax: Perfect, then, with the scythe

    ETA: There’s a probably-apocryphal story about when Paul Desmond (the saxophonist) lay in the hospital dying of cancer, Charles Mingus dropped in for a visit. Mingus was then partial to capes, and was wearing one, so when he entered Desmond’s room, Desmond said “set up the chessboard.”

  153. 153.

    Kay

    Aaron Reichlin-Melnick
    @ReichlinMelnick
    15h
    In 2016, Chad Mizelle, a 29-year-old first-year associate volunteered for the Trump campaign. Four years later:
    – He’s DHS Acting General Counsel
    – His wife is a federal judge
    – One law school friend and groomsman is Deputy General Counsel at DHS. Another has a DOJ job.

    I was never kidding about the low quality hires. It’s all like this. I think they don’t want to let Biden’s professionals in because they are going to be shocked and horrified at how bad it is.
    I laugh when I see media say “they must let Biden get to the vaccination plans!”. Give me a fucking break. There are no vaccination plans. There isn’t a covid plan. Why would there be vaccination plans?

  155. 155.

    Amir Khalid

    James May of Clarkson, Hammond and May fame has a YouTube series on British sandwiches of the 1970s. This episode from last month is about French-fry and potato-chip sandwiches.

  156. 156.

    Kay

    Another day where all we need is some group of GOP Senators to hold a press conference and tell Trump to concede, and another day where they refuse to perform this basic duty to the country and (again) violate their oaths.
    They will not defend the country. Too scared.

  159. 159.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: I was tweeting that “what you say” chart all over the place.  Mostly to note that “what I hear” from anti-maskers in every case is “my tribal leader trumpov told me masks are for wusses so tough luck libtards cough cough”

  160. 160.

    Fair Economist

    @Soprano2:

    I see on my FB feed conservative friends posting something about Gavin Newsom going to a birthday party where there were no COVID safeguards observed? Is this true? If so, what a dumbass idiotic thing for him to do.

    He attended a large outdoor socially-distanced dinner party at a restaurant. Not the best choice, but following then-current Cali recommendations.

  162. 162.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Soprano2:

    what a dumbass idiotic thing for him to do.

    Well, he did marry Kimberly Guilfoyle, after all.

    ETA [shaking fist]: CURSE YOU, QUINERLY! CURSE YOU TO HECK!

  163. 163.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    My husband says that. I feel like I “speak” far Right nutjob due to living here so I could pull it off. He could not. He has never had an unexpressed thought in his life. I had to tell to stop asking people if they were pregnant. He was like 40.

  164. 164.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Kay:

    Jeez. Just jeez.

    And there’s this:

    The Senate just confirmed 33-year-old Kat Mizelle, a Jones Day associate and ex-Thomas clerk, to a federal judgeship in Florida. The ABA gave her a "not qualified" rating due to lack of trial experience.

    Out of Trump's young judges, she's the youngest.
    https://t.co/xpQgTC7hGS

    — Jacqueline Thomsen (@jacq_thomsen) November 18, 2020

  165. 165.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    Right? Tell me some more about the huge and valuable information exchange in the transition. Biden can safely skip it. It’s all garbage work anyway. He’ll save time.

    It also means we’ll have to dislodge them with a crowbar (those we can) because these are the best jobs they’ll ever get. No one else will hire these people at anywhere near these levels.

  166. 166.

    dnfree

    @Elizabelle: the test is unpleasant but only for a few seconds.  I had one before minor surgery. At least at my testing site they explained what they were going to do. They got it into position, held it there for a few seconds, and then scrunged it around vigorously.

  168. 168.

    Matt McIrvin

    I got a drive-through COVID-19 test a few weeks ago, when the city was offering them for free, but it didn’t use the super-long swabs–it was just a Q-tip sized one that scraped the inside of my nose. Not nearly as traumatic, though I think these also aren’t as sensitive.

  169. 169.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    The judges mostly concern me, in the near term, because if Republicans fail at overturning this election they’ll get better at it next time and they’ll have the judges they need in place. Obviously it isn’t just Trump trying to overturn the election. The Republican Party is listed on a lot of the captions of the court cases, so the fiction they’re promoting that this is just Trump is obviously a lie. It’s a Party-wide effort to install the loser of an election against the expressed will of the public.

    But one crisis at a time, I guess.

  172. 172.

    dnfree

    @Barbara: it is BECAUSE these people are so accustomed to accepting unreasonable beliefs on faith. You can’t provide them with different information based on your so-called “facts” if it would contradict an existing belief. People who believe the theory of evolution is a hoax based on Genesis, and who are Trump supporters, will not accept evidence that contradicts either set of beliefs. I’ve tried.

  173. 173.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Kay: I think they don’t want to let Biden’s professionals in because they are going to be shocked and horrified at how bad it is.

    And not only that, they will tell the news media for all to see. I think this is a big part of it.

    Not Republican senators yet, but here comes the Chamber of Commerce:

    Tom Donohue — CEO of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and longtime confidant of Republican presidents — tells Axios AM that Joe Biden is president-elect, and President Trump “should not delay the transition a moment longer.”

  174. 174.

    Kay

    Jake Tapper
    @jaketapper
    ·17m
    AP: Trump reached out to the Wayne County MI canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann “to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote ‘should not be certified.’”

    Taking orders from the cult leader. But can you blame them? Republicans in Congress take orders from the same cult leader. The rank and file are unlikely to bust out of the cult until the national leaders of the “conservative movement” denounce the regime.

    “LIberty!” That’s why they all take orders from this fucking joke of an authoritarian. Weak, easily led people who lack agency and free will. They were conquered by a sleazy NY real estate developer.

  175. 175.

    dnfree

    @WaterGirl: as long as we’re talking wonky site issues, for a week or so now, on my iPhone 11 and my older iPad, when I click the little grey box for Post and comments I am taken to a full-screen ad. Then if I go back to the front page and click the rectangle again I get to the post and comments. This happens nearly every time, and there are no visible ads in the vicinity. Doesn’t happen on my windows 10 computer in Firefox.

  176. 176.

    NotMax

    @Elizabelle

    I don’t have much of a problem with the extra-long nasal probe.

    That is, unless I also see on the staff several robed Egyptians toting rolls of linen bandages.

    :)

  179. 179.

    WaterGirl

    @Fair Economist: The article I read said that it was “mostly” outdoors, but there are photos of quite a large number of them seated indoors.

    The party also violated the “no more than 3 households” rule.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.  And his “apology” was mostly a non-apology, issued in passive voice.

  180. 180.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @dnfree: Thank you for mentioning that issue with the ads on the phone. I get them too! I click on the comment box to open the post and lately it ALWAYS go first to an ad. This is definitely not a case of fat fingers (although I haz them). There’s no ad option in sight, only the “comments” link. Very annoying.

    Android phone.

  181. 181.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @dnfree: I got a million of them.

    Actually I don’t. I only have one of them. That’s the only philosophy joke I know unless you want to count the old chestnut: “God is dead – Nietzsche; Nietzsche is dead – God”

    Do philosophy majors tell philosophy jokes?

    I was a physics major and there were a bunch of physics jokes, mostly of the form “a physicist, a mathematician and an engineer [approach some problem].” You can probably guess who comes out as smartest in those jokes.

  183. 183.

    montanareddog

    @Kay: My former boss was at a business dinner and took it upon himself to advise a pregnant colleague that it was unwise for her to eat unpasteurized cheese in her condition. Needless, to say the poor lady was not with child at the time.

  184. 184.

    VOR

    @satby:  In season 3? Go back and finish. I also was wondering WTF was happening with the daughter but it makes sense in the end, even if it isn’t enjoyable. It isn’t random.

  185. 185.

    Kay

    @NotMax:

    I’m getting one Sunday at the Rite Aid. I had to get up at 5 AM to get a slot – you reserve online- there isn’t enough testing in Ohio. My son told me it’s “not bad” and my husband told me it was “horrible” :)

    My daughter won’t give me the baby until I get tested, even though I made elaborate preparations to see the baby, including renting a house in NY and barking at everyone else that they “can’t come”.

  187. 187.

    artem1s

    The president, who typically talks to reporters throughout the week, has taken zero questions in the two weeks since Election Day.

    can’t believe it’s been less than three weeks.  hopefully the holidays will make the rest of the waiting until Jan 21 seem faster.

    :P

  189. 189.

    Baud

    @Benw:

    We need Congress for that and probably more Senators than we’ll have if we win both GA runoffs.   Maybe if we can have a good 2022.

  190. 190.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:

    We have emailed a couple of times, she said she was writing her book, and of course not working daily at her job. I haven’t bothered her in a while, been, like most every one else hunkered down in the bunker, trying to keep my BP from going into moon orbit.

  191. 191.

    dnfree

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I was a math major and physics minor. Here’s the only philosophy joke I can remember:

    Two philosophers are talking. The first one says to the other, “Do you believe in baptism?”  The second replies “Yes.”  The first says “Really?”  The second answers “ I have to. I’ve seen it done.”

  192. 192.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Steeplejack (phone): Philadelphia has imposed a rule, effective tomorrow till Jan 1, that gatherings with people from more than one household are forbidden. So no guests for Thanksgiving.

    It’s unenforceable of course and probably going to be largely ignored. With predictable consequences.

  194. 194.

    The Pale Scot

    Yves Smith calls it the Crapification of Everything.

    My BiL is in the hospital, I decided the send him some Asterix and Obelix since his degrees are History with a focus on Rome and the Byzantine Empire. A new batch has come out and I thought great, something that’s not 20 years old. Then I read the comments.  It’s a new translation, apparently the Bell/Hockridge version was too sophisticated and witty so it had to be dumbed down. And there are typos. Fortunately copies of previous prints are still available.

     

    But WTF? Reminds me of the article comparing the covers of Newsweek, Time, and Highlights magazine concerning a current story. The Highlights magazine’s cover (directed at 2cd to 6th graders) was more mature and relevant than the adult version, that explains much with regard to our current cadre of COVID denying mask fighting morons. What’s next, rewriting Dangermouse episodes?

  195. 195.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Happens to me, too, on an iPhone.

    @WaterGirl, I’ll send screen grabs the next time it happens. If it’s any help to pinpoint timing, there was a blissful period of about three days a couple of weeks ago when you suspended ads altogether. This new annoyance started as soon as the ads were reinstated.

  196. 196.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:

    Weak, easily led people who lack agency and free will. They were conquered by a sleazy NY real estate developer.

    Laughing.  It is so g-damned true.

    Maybe this gives some localities a chance to clean house of the dishonest and ideological members of the election apparatus before the midterms.

    Are these Wayne County wankers going to be this month’s version of the pistol-packing McCloskeys??

  197. 197.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: I think a strong case can be made for court reform. As I recall Roberts and Rhenquist before him have complained in Congressional testimony about courts being overloaded. But the case has to be made.

    The idea that things– policies and politicians– that should be popular therefore are popular, in spite of all polling and electoral evidence, is far too widespread on the internet left, from the shrieking Roses of twitter to even the stodgy old Boomer DINO dinosaurs of the Balloon Juice comment section.

  198. 198.

    dnfree

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Three years ago we went to New Zealand. On the tour of Christchurch, we saw a museum dedicated to Ernest Rutherford. I didn’t realize that’s where he was from. He had a lab in a basement room normally used for storing academic cloaks. They had a very nice little museum. I got a t-shirt with Rutherford’s famous quote, which apparently he might not have actually said. “All science is either physics or stamp collecting.”

  200. 200.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:

    I believe I had one of those. But it’s been just a bit of time since I crossed that doorway that I can’t remember much about the place other than it was going downhill and not worth the time.

  202. 202.

    zzyzx

    @WaterGirl: I have some but don’t have your address.

    Basically if you click on the “183 comments” link on the front page, it brings you to a full page ad. Sometimes there’s an X in the upper right corner to clear it, other times, you have to click back and then hit the comments again. Been happening for at least 24 hours or so.

  203. 203.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I think they don’t want to let Biden’s professionals in because they are going to be shocked and horrified at how bad it is.

    And not only that, they will tell the news media for all to see. I think this is a big part of it.

    During the Obama-Trump transition period in 2016, the Obama folks would set up meetings with their new counterparts, prepare briefing materials, bring in outside experts to provide additional information, etc.

    Most of the time, the Trump folks didn’t bother to show up. Or they’d send an intern.

    What makes us think they’re going to show up for a Trump-Biden transition (assuming there is one)?

  204. 204.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Gin & Tonic: A physicist, a mathematician and an engineer are on a hill in Scotland looking down at a flock of sheep.

    The engineer declares, “The sheep in Scotland are black.”

    The physicist replies, “Careful. All we can conclude is that there are at least 20 sheep in Scotland that are black.”

    The mathematician answers, “There are at least 20 sheep in Scotland which are black on at least one side.”

  206. 206.

    Matt McIrvin

    @SiubhanDuinne: There’s been a bunch of renewed attention going around about past presidential transitions–I was just watching a video about, I think, George H. W. Bush passing the torch to Bill Clinton, since that was a superficially similar case of an incumbent who was not reelected.

    And some commenter on the video said something like “I wish we could have more of this today. Obama never invited Trump to the White House for advice!” Even though, you know, he did and it was all over the news at the time. I even remember Trump mistaking Obama’s concern for peaceful continuity for personal affection, and talking about how he thought Obama liked him. But there’s still this assumption of both-sides bad faith. We don’t seem to get anything out of trying.

  209. 209.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @SiubhanDuinne: The people that the Biden team will want to talk to are the civil service people who work through all administrations. They are the ones, like Anthony Fauci, who continue to do their jobs and will be happy to see the malfeasance exposed.

    They are the ones who actually get the job done and who will be working in a Biden administration.

  210. 210.

    WaterGirl

    @zzyzx: I appreciate the description, but a picture is worth a thousand words.

    You can email me using my nym at balloon-juice.com or you can use the Site Feedback form, which allows attachments.

    thanks

  212. 212.

    WaterGirl

    @Gin & Tonic: @zzyzx:

    screen capture please.  It helps me understand what’s happening, and it gives me something I can work with when I talk to Cole about the problem.

    Both are essential to getting a change made.  :-)

    Really helpful to know that this is new since the ads came back on.

  213. 213.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Noble is so relative. What it is, is urgent. This can’t be allowed to continue ,and it can’t be allowed to happen again, ever.

  214. 214.

    Another Scott

    @debbie:

    While, Palmer and Hartmann have signed affidavits seeking to revoke their certification, Vice Chair Kinloch assures me the deal is already done. Lawsuits withstanding, as election lawyers have explained to me, the deadline is also a hard stop, and the deadline was yesterday.

    — Kayla Ruble (@RubleKB) November 19, 2020

    Donnie and his minions know they can’t win. They’re just doing as much as they can to sow chaos in the press and rile up their supporters. That is all.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  215. 215.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:

    Do I understand correctly that what all 4 of you are describing is DIFFERENT from how it was BEFORE the ads were turned off for those 2-3 days?

    I obviously can’t speak for the others, but for me YES, the full-page ad that’s hard to get rid of is NEW and DIFFERENT since the ads were turned off.

    This is in ADDITION to the same-old annoyance of the ad that shows up at the top of the screen and covers the up-down-next-previous arrows.

    And of course, there’s the old favourite of half a dozen celebrity photos with clickbait captions. But those, while distasteful, are easy to scroll past.

  217. 217.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I even remember Trump mistaking Obama’s concern for peaceful continuity for personal affection, and talking about how he thought Obama liked him.

    I remember that too. And Trump saying something like he had thought the meeting with Obama would last only about 15 minutes but it went on for an hour and a half!

  219. 219.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Another Scott: The WaPo article yesterday, by Kayla Ruble and others, describer Monica Palmer as a “schools activist.” I’m sure Kay can speculate on precisely what that means. I doubt it means the same thing as “public school advocate.”

  221. 221.

    Kay

    The conservative movement has become handicapped.
    Organizations can’t sound the alarm about President-elect Joe Biden’s agenda. Conservative reporters won’t take pitches about Biden’s rumored Cabinet contenders, insistent on covering evidence-deficient claims of voter fraud instead. One conservative group involved in policy advocacy backed off from hiring two soon-to-depart Trump administration officials after growing concerned about the consequences.

    “Liberty! Freedom!”

    The conservative movement was so easily conquered by a sleazy NY real estate developer that they are reduced to whining to Politico that they are “handicapped”.

    Handicapped! Helpless before the cult leaders power. All agency and free will gone. They must comply.

    Day 12 of the country being held hostage by Donald Trump and the freedom-fighters on the Right are too scared to stand up to him. Poll workers found the spine to stand up to him, but the national leaders on the Right cannot. Too scared.

  223. 223.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Gin & Tonic: also, word is she Q-Anon

    and her co-conspirator’s facebook page is covered with Obama-as-a-gangbanger mock-ups

    so of course the President of the United States called them at home

  224. 224.

    debbie

    @WaterGirl:

    FWIW, I’ve seen this too on my iPad Mini (5th generation).

    I know nothing about web shit, but if you could post the screenshots you get, I could tell you if what I’m seeing is similar.

  225. 225.

    debbie

    @Another Scott:

    I know it won’t get anywhere, but you know there will be yet another lawsuit. I’m sick of the stupid and I’m sick of the world rightfully laughing at us.

  226. 226.

    Kay

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Monica’s in the subset Trump cult, Qanon. Can you imagine if the Q nutters like Monica get into public schools? It won’t happen in Grosse Pointe, though. They would have parents interested in AP science courses and ACT scores. They’ll send Monica packing.

    We once won a school board race here with a Democratic engineer as the candidate. He focused on “math”. That was the campaign. “I support math”. The whole top 25% income voter pool supported him. Don’t fuck with their ACT scores.

  227. 227.

    Miss Bianca

    @David ?Booooooo!? Koch: Oh, that’s good to know! Been meaning to email Mnem – knowing she’s on DKOS might be enough to get me checking in there again regularly – I checked out of a lot of blogs I used to frequent in the run-up to the 2016 election – I just couldn’t take the Hillary/Dem bashing and the Bernie fluffing that so many of them seemed to fall into at the time..

    ETA: Wait, is it possible there’s a different Mnemosyne? That’s what people seem to be saying. (“People say…”)

  228. 228.

    J R in WV

     

    Heard my wife say this, she was laughing in awe at the ignorance:

    “Donald Trump is a Genius — that’s what the J stands for!”

    I too laughed out loud !!!

  231. 231.

    Elizabelle

    @Miss Bianca:  Different Mnemo.  Alas. Or maybe “yea.”  Cannot envision heading over to daily Kos.  Not even the real Mnemo would inspire that click.

  232. 232.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: Aww, damn. I am sorry to hear all this about your family, Kay. Best wishes for a speedy recovery for your SIL.

  233. 233.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

     

    Maybe others thought you were joking or exaggerating.

    Me?

    I never thought you were doing anything other than telling the truth.

    Of course, they were unqualified. All the qualified Republicans, pretty much, haven’t worked for Dolt45. All the positions that would have been filled with the ‘ usual suspects’ weren’t. So,  all they had left  were unqualified bottom-feeders.

  234. 234.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I was a physics major and there were a bunch of physics jokes, mostly of the form “a physicist, a mathematician and an engineer [approach some problem].” You can probably guess who comes out as smartest in those jokes.

    In my experience with those types of jokes, it’s not necessarily a given that the physicist comes out looking smartest.

    What is ALWAYS a given is that the engineer comes out looking dumbest. : )

  235. 235.

    Gin & Tonic

    @rikyrah: Talking about bad hires:

    1. NEW….

    Scott O’Grady, who has been nominated by President Trump to become the next assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs, killed two elephants during a 2014 hunting trip in Zimbabwe.

    He called it “an amazing experience.” https://t.co/eVnPsEVGc5
    — Yashar Ali ? (@yashar) November 19, 2020

  237. 237.

    zzyzx

    I’m trying to decide if I want to watch the insanity that will be this RNC “We really can win the election! Trust us!” press conference in 10 minutes.

  238. 238.

    Kay

    Just remember this- the same conservative leaders who have spent the last 10 years lecturing and scolding us about free speech and dissent ARE AFRAID to criticize the President.

    That’s forbidden on the Right now. They all lined up and accepted a muzzle to shut them up while he destroys the country.

    Yesterday their leaders in the Senate, terrified, beaten and silenced, and too frightened to address the crisis the President has caused, made some weak mewling noises objecting the NYTimes food section. They’re launching a brave attack on the cranberry sauce recipe! Grab your musket!

    After this they CONFRONT the Oberlin student council for giving the Young Republicans the poorly lit meeting room. The Men of the Right. Running away from battle again.

  241. 241.

    J R in WV

    @Kay:

    In 2016, Chad Mizelle, a 29-year-old first-year associate volunteered for the Trump campaign. Four years later:
    – He’s DHS Acting General Counsel
    – His wife is a federal judge

    Do you suppose Acting General Counsel Mizelle knows enough about the law governing the Federal Government to have avoided committing felonies every day?

    I don’t.

    He should be quaking at the prospect of a real lawyer with experience in the requirements of government coming into his office after he is gone and reading the daily brief of activities his secretary prepared.

    But he is probably too pig-ignorant to even be aware of the laws he broke in his daily business. Rest while you still can, Mr. Mizelle.

  243. 243.

    gvg

    @WaterGirl: Yes.

    These are popups.  Before it was just adds all over the site. Now I get these strange popup ads.  The also seem to be oddly colorless…black grey and white with little print. Its kind of odd looking compared to what we are now used to.  And I don’t see anything near to where I touched.

    Its happening on my ipad pro-a touch screen. At least 3 days. I assumed it was the after election back to having ads again.

  245. 245.

    Kay

    @J R in WV:

    The plain fact is it is NEVER a good sign when the outgoing team refuses to let the incoming team in to see anything. In any business or entity that’s a giant red flag. If you’re solid in your work you just don’t have an issue with someone looking at it. If this were a for profit or even non profit and the past leadership were stone walling letting outside eyes in everyone would know what is going on. They’re hiding. Something. A lot of something. They’re hoping they’ll be out the door by the time it’s revealed.

    It isn’t going to work but none of these people were qualified for these jobs and they have no real world experience so they don’t know it isn’t going to work. Eventually we’ll see their work. It isn’t going to be pretty.

  246. 246.

    dnfree

    @WaterGirl: I don’t know when it started but it was within the past two weeks. I read a post on the front page, then click on the little grey rectangle that either say Post plus comments or just comments if the whole post was on the front page. That takes me to a full-screen ad, of which there have been quite a variety.  I use my safari browser back arrow once, which brings me back to the front page. I click the post plus comments button again and that takes me where I expected to be. So it knows I’ve seen the ad. I have also found it in reverse that if I was reading comments, and clicked on a Twitter link, when using the back arrow I get an ad and then second full click I’m back to the comments, but that doesn’t happen as often. It behaves as if I’ve seen an ad I’m interested in and clicked on it, but there are no visible ads.

  248. 248.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: a cranberry sauce fight?

    Did some liberal elitist dare to look down their nose at the canned variety?  Because if they did, I would basically have to switch parties and vote R for a decade.

    //

    (ok but I would be ticked ;)

  250. 250.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Hmm sounds like Ghoulanie’s $20K an hour court room grift has played out with The Donald and now it’s Bannon’s “Spew BS,call it 11 dimensional  chess yours for only $15K an hour”  grift’s time in the dying sun of the Trump admin. By the time the feeding frenzy is done Trump won’t have anything to show for all the fund raising he did.

    It is sad.  Won’t anyone think of this poor huckster?

  251. 251.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    The NYTimes said that the Thanksgving story wasn’t strictly true so the brave liberty-loving cancel culture warriors spent a day on it.

    Meanwhile:

    Disturbing new details in alleged plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer reveal their Plan B was to takeover the Michigan capitol building with 200 combatants, who would stage a week-long series of televised executions of public officials.

    The sleazy, corrupt President who is refusing to accept that he lost an election egged this on and the entire Right were too scared to call him on it. But they’re very brave battling political correctness at the NYTimes.

  252. 252.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    Every morning since the election the leaders of the US Right wing line up like well-trained dogs and accept the muzzle from Donald Trump. Sometimes they slip it off secretly and tell Jake Tapper “on background” that they don’t agree with the President but are afraid of him. Then he barks an order and they all jump back in formation.

    We rescued these fucking people. They would have handed him the country. They’re still trying to. It’s like rescuing someone who is drowning. We have to save ourselves and them without letting them take us down with them. They’ll hate us more after this- we watched their groveling humiliation for 61 days and they’ll never forgive us for seeing it.

  254. 254.

    J R in WV

    @Kay:

    It is unbelievable, except that we’ve watched it for almost 4 years now. They kow-tow to him, award him, tell us he’s a genius (That’s what the “J” stands for!!) and do as they think he wants to to.

    These people are “supposed to” be the true leadership of a great nation, and they can’t even lead this fool to take a drink of water with the hand that still works!!

  256. 256.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Miss Bianca: What is ALWAYS a given is that the engineer comes out looking dumbest. : )

    ‘Tain’t necessarily so…

    A senior vice president at a tech company wanted to make a solo flight in a hot air balloon. He took himself to an establishment specializing in such flights, and after a few hours of instruction (& a large sum of $$$ changing hands) was sent off into the wild blue up yonder.

    It didn’t take long for him to become rather disoriented. When he found himself floating over a dense forest he realized he was totally lost. He looked down and saw, just below, a clearing among the trees, and in that clearing was a road and a parked car with a man leaning against the fender.

    Our erstwhile balloonist turned down the gas feed to the burners, and when the balloon settled to within 10 feet of the road he called out to the fellow on the ground: Hey there, this is my first flight in a balloon, can you tell me where I am?

    The fellow responded, Sure. You’re in a hot air balloon hovering about 10 feet above a road through a forest.

    That’s not helpful at all, the balloonist snarled.  You must be an engineer.

    In fact I am, the groundling said. How did you know?

    Because you gave me an answer that’s technically correct but practically useless.

    Very clever. And you must be in senior management at a tech corporation.

    I am, the balloonist said. How did you figure that out?

    Simple, the groundling said. You decided you wanted to do something you weren’t qualified to do, you took off on your own, you didn’t know enough to steer properly, you got yourself completely lost, then out of nowhere you dropped in on an engineer expecting him to bail you out and then you got pissed off that he hasn’t.

    /rimshot.

    (I have another one where the engineer comes off better than senior management. I also have a few economist jokes up my sleeve – and the economists do not come off well either.)

  258. 258.

    dnfree

    @The Pale Scot: there was quite a story about his background at the little museum. It said he was one of I think 11 children of a poor farming family. He applied for some prize to study abroad and came in second. But then the winner decided not to go, and it came to him. Who knows how much that changed physics, as well as his life?

  261. 261.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @dnfree: Didn’t know about the Gates connection, thanx 4 that. (By the way did you know that Bill is one of five children? His siblings are named AND, OR, NAND and NOR…)

    Leaving the office one afternoon, an engineer saw two of the company’s senior vice-presidents fumbling around with a stepladder and tape measure at the flagpole in the courtyard. He walked over and asked what they were trying to do. We need to get the height of this flagpole, they said.

    He took the tape measure and said, Stand back. He then pulled the flagpole out of its socket and laid it on the ground, drew the tape along it, read out the value, wrote it down on his notepad**, handed it and the measure to the VPs, and reseated the flagpole in its socket.

    As the engineer walked off to the parking lot, one of the VPs said to the other, Now isn’t that a typical damn dumb engineer! We needed the height – and he gave us the length.

    /rimshot

    ** Which, as is well known, all engineers carry in their pocket protectors, along with a handful of pens and pencils, as the emblem of their profession.

  262. 262.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @The Pale Scot: Just FTR, $35 went a fuck of a lot farther in 1911 (~$1,000 in 2020 bux). Second, gold foil and the “radium emanations” (radium-226, radon-222 and bismuth-214, proportions unclear) weren’t exactly off-the-shelf at Selfridge’s.

  263. 263.

    The Pale Scot

    @dnfree:

    For sure, once upon a time great minds lurked out wilderness, Now? Oy

     

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Yeh I simplified it a bit. I was going to say back when you just needed grad students willing to spend days staring at a cathode ray screen and then I thought about the search for proton decay

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