Here’s a good writeup of PA Lt. Gov. Fetterman’s effort to legalize marijuana at, of all places, the tech site The Verge. I’ve been following him for a while, and he’s quite good. Example:
“I find the Democrats’ platform on it cowardly, and, on the wrong side of history,” he said. “So the Democratic Party is to the right of South Dakota on legal weed, and it’s like, ‘what the hell is wrong with you?’” Fetterman says. “The Democratic Party owes its electoral success in this election to Black and brown communities. And they are disgustingly, disproportionately impacted by weed prohibition more than anybody.”
Apparently, he’s thinking about a run against Toomey in 2022 — that would be a good flip. He’s good on social media, too — authentic, frank, fun, and not just about politics:
Boom. pic.twitter.com/AA6t1e9UYl
— John Fetterman (@JohnFetterman) December 4, 2020
Update: Forgot to mention that his wife is also really impressive.
Baud
I like Fetterman, but didn’t the House just pass a major Mary Jane bill, and the problem is Mcconnell in the Senate?
bbleh
IIRC, Toomey has said he will NOT run for Gov in 22
Baud
@Baud:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Yes, what was the question?
laura
I’ll say it again it til someone tells me I’m wrong- that Fetterman is so smart, so strategic he reminds me of Pat Tillman and what might have been.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
Here’s the 2020 platform. He wants to legalize recreational use, and he’s correct that the Democratic platform doesn’t support it.
Baud
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
I didn’t say he was wrong about the platform, just that it’s odd for this critique to come out on the day when the Dems are taking major action with actual legislation on the subject and the GOP is opposing it.
Baud
Also, too, saying states should make the determination is not “to the right” of any state who has made that determination.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
There was a time when marijuana wasn’t necessarily an issue that separated the parties. It is becoming more partisan, with the Dems on the correct side.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: In the pre-Trump era I was thinking this might be an area where the more libertarian-minded Republicans could actually outflank the Democrats on the “left”, but that didn’t really happen.
patroclus
I, for one, am looking forward with anticipation to see what SNL does with Mellissa Carrone, Giuliani’s star witness from Michigan. She and that lady from Georgia who was upset about the natural gas being turned off clearly have won the week so far. Can SNL top the original versions?
PsiFighter37
I would think it would be better if he runs for governor, and Wolf (who is term limited) runs for the Senate instead. Having also been a mayor, I feel like Fetterman is probably a better fit for an executive position.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Matt Gaetz was all over my TV this morning, even though it is Nancy Pelosi’s house that will pass the thing. Since the Senate won’t take a vote at all, it’ll be interesting to see what the partisan breakdown in the House will be.
ETA: The problem real libertarians have is that they are tiny in number if the issue doesn’t involve economic “freedoms.”
Nicole
@Baud: He’s been on this for awhile on Twitter; it didn’t just come out today. Mostly he’s focusing on PA’s pot rules being more restrictive than a lot of other much redder states. This tweet in particular made me laugh:
https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1332315797830692865
Kent
I like Fetterman, at least what I’ve seen from afar here in the PNW. But he strikes me as more of a governor than senator. Not sure why. But I think his particular brand of badassery plays better as a governor than senator.
Baud
@Nicole: I wonder when this Vox interview was conducted. In any other context, we would call this “stepping on our message.” It’s likely Vox was more to blame, but I can’t imagine Fetterman wasn’t aware that the bill was scheduled for a vote.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
If the Democrats really wanted to legalize pot, they’d Do Something(tm).
Baud
@Chyron HR:
Well, I don’t know enough to blame Fetterman, who generally seems solid. But I’m concerned that’s the impression Vox readers will have.
Baud
At least Vox buried this in the middle of the article:
Kent
Isn’t that pretty much how most other legal drugs are regulated? Is recreational tobacco and booze specifically legalized in federal law? Or is federal law silent and leaves it up to the states to regulate?
The 21st Amendment repealed prohibition, but it left it up to the states to regulate liquor which is why we still have things like blue laws and dry counties scattered about. And a big hodge podge of state laws regarding drinking ages, liquor sales, liquor licensing, etc.
Nicole
@Baud: I just read the full article and the vast majority puts the blame on the GOP for the lack of action on marijuana. The quote about the Dems was like the 2nd or 3rd last paragraph
I was interested to see that he says he doesn’t smoke himself. I think that is helpful; a spokesperson who is pushing for legalization for the economic and social justice reasons and doesn’t have a personal desire for it.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Kent:
Isn’t that an argument for consistent federal regulation of marijuana (and alcohol)?
CaseyL
I am from Pennsylvania originally (albeit left there many, many years ago) and take quite a bit of vicarious pride in Fetterman. I agree he seems cut out more for an executive position than a Senatorial one – I think the Senate would drive him nuts, actually.
I hope he has a long and successful career in public service, and definitely hope he gets more national attention. He’s a very rare bird: street-smart, book-smart, outspoken, with very few FLTG.
geg6
@Baud:
Fetterman has made this his issue for several years. Right after he took office, he and Governor Wolf set up a bunch of town halls and meetings with local officials and law enforcement, basically fact finding and gauging support for legalization. He cannot get the state legislature to take any action. The Dems there have no power because the leg is GOP majority, so nothing has happened. And he has talked about the DNC platform in local media. His problem with it is that it only discusses decriminalization. He wants it legal, period.
I agree.
I adore my Lt. Governor. I want him for Governor. I want Josh Shapiro to run for Toomey’s seat. He won reelection for AG walking away. He’s popular in places you wouldn’t expect, mainly due to his work in taking on the Catholic Church and its pedophiles and UPMC trying to be a health insurance monopoly here in the state.
Baud
@Nicole:
The third paragraph blamed both sides.
Baud
@geg6:
I’m more upset about the timing than the substance.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Not really, states do a fine job, the issue is where the feds get involved via scheduling the substance and banking regulations.
MomSense
Since legalization of recreational marijuana is unlikely to pass the GOP controlled Senate or really any Senate for awhile, I’m in favor of Democrats putting this issue in front of voters during midterm elections as a way to hopefully increase Democratic turnout.
Baud
@MomSense: That makes sense.
sdhays
@Nicole: I think that’s an important point. I don’t smoke (anything) and mind altering drugs of any sort don’t attract me at all – I don’t even drink alcohol. But I support some form of legalization because it’s pretty clear that the harm to society from banning marijuana is much, much worse than using marijuana. It’s important for people who don’t have any desire to use marijuana to support or at least be comfortable with the idea of legalization, and having leaders like this can help.
Just don’t smoke around me. It’s disgusting.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: They both know what they did!
sab
@Baud: The problem is also Biden, who has been convinced for years that it is marijuana is a gateway drug.
Almost Retired
Good for Fetterman for getting out in front on this issue. None of the sky-is-falling shrieking that preceded California’s full legalization turned out to be true (sketchy dispensaries in low-income neighborhoods not withstanding). And it ended the charade of the “medical Marijuana” years. Like when I learned that my then teen-age son got a medical prescription on Venice Beach for “anxiety.” What was his anxiety? His parents were stressing him out about his marijuana smoking.
Nicole
@Baud: What, that neither party makes legalizing pot a priority? That’s not news and not something that I think is likely to make the average reader say, “THAT’S IT! I’m not voting Democratic now!” I just don’t see this article as the Democratic-bashfest that you seem to. The average person is not nearly as tuned into the voting schedule of Congress as some balloon-juice readers are. The author themself didn’t seem sure when the vote would come, just that it would be this week.
Baud
@sab: I don’t think Biden will standing in the way of any legislation.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Baud:
Here’s the paragraph:
This is not perfect, but it’s not classic both sides, especially in context of a pretty darn fair and well-written piece of journalism.
The reality is that Democrats in general have been behind popular opinion on legalizing recreational marijuana. If they wanted to lead on the issue, the House bill that you think should make everyone STFU about legalization would have been passed prior to the election, and Democrats would have campaigned on it. Instead, after it was clear that the tide was turning even in red states, they passed a bill that had been ready to go for a year.
Nicole
@sdhays: I don’t smoke it either (I’ve never been stoned, actually), but I support its legalization, too. It’s not my thing, but lots of things are not my thing, and legalization will, I think, rectify more old problems than it will create new problems. It’ll create some, sure, but I don’t think on the level of the current state of affairs.
Baud
@Nicole: I didn’t say bash-fest. I was mildly critical of the timing of this article which is at least partly critical of Democrats on the very day that the Dems are making substantial progress on this issue. We have often criticized Dems for not speaking with one voice, and this is another example (perhaps inadvertent) of it.
I’m not canceling Fetterman, but he’s also not uniquely immune from being criticized for possibly being off-message.
Baud
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Complaining about Dems Past when Dems Now are doing something positive will almost always be counter-productive.
germy
New York expected to legalize marijuana for recreational-use soon, Cuomo says
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Let me be more clear. There is a hodgepodge of liquor regulation. Where I can buy, when I can buy, and what I can buy changes from state to state, and sometimes county to county or town to town. Wouldn’t it be better if, instead of replicating our federal stance towards liquor, we had one, consistent set of rules as to where, how, when and what kind of marijuana could be purchased?
glory b
I like him better for governor. Wolf is now termed out, it will be an open seat.
I want Shapiro, who is now our AG, for Senate.
I think he’d appeal to the Pennsyltuckians, He looks like a bouncer in a biker bar.
Roger Moore
@Matt McIrvin:
That’s because there aren’t enough libertarian-minded Republicans to make a difference. Most of the Republicans who describe themselves that way are just trying to sound cool; when the time comes, they’ll wind up supporting all the authoritarian stuff the party demands.
germy
Can someone explain to me the difference between decriminalization and legalization?
misterpuff
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: Alcohol manufacturing and commercial use is regulated by the Feds (mostly for the tax issues).
Distribution, sales and age limitations are up to the states.
I agree that a similiar approach should be taken by the federal government (hey GOP, more sin taxes so you can do more tax cuts).
Baud
Hoodie
@Baud: I don’t know that he’s particularly off message here. He’s been a solid team player throughout the election. This could be viewed as a tactical nudge, analogous to Biden getting out in front of Obama on gay marriage. This isn’t equivalent to accusing the Dems of being neoliberal sellouts.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Baud:
You are nit picking every little thing about the article, having produced about half of the total comments to this post. And Fetterman was not off-message — there is no real, consistent national message from Democrats.
Here’s a perfect example of a nit pick that’s ridiculous on its face. The House passed legalization of marijuana around noon today, with little fanfare and little advance notice. The Verge published Fetterman’s piece at 9 AM. So Fetterman is guilty about complaining about “Dems Past” because “Dems Now”, passed a bill long after his interview was done. Pffft.
Kent
No, it would NOT be better. I live in Washington State. I don’t want dumbass GOP legislators from places like Mississippi and Texas setting regulations on how, where, when, and what kind of pot I can buy at my local dispensary. No good can come of that.
MFA
@bbleh: Toomey’s not running for re-election to the Senate. His seat will be open. So, Wolfe or Fetterman to the Senate? The latter. Wolfe is a non-entity (competent, but no charisma) and will not resonate on the national stage. Fetterman has AOC-like potential and is a VERY progressive and motivating leader. His presence in the news is not an accident; he is being touted, boosted, and his profile raised; I’m good with that.
Baud
@Hoodie:
No. Again, the problem (which might not be Fetterman’s fault) is timing. Biden didn’t get out in front of Obama on the day Obama was doing something positive on gay marriage.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix: It’s a heavy lift and I don’t see the point in expending political capital on it. I really think you’re overestimating the support for this, just clear out the Federal obstacles but leave it up to the states.
Heidi Mom
@geg6: I’m a fellow Pennsylvanian and I approve your choices.
MFA
@germy: Decrim: You won’t go to jail. You might get a ticket. No Federal violation. But it’s still a penalty, and there is no channel for recreational users to legally buy or use it. Legal: No jail, no ticket, no violation, no nothing. Might be regulated, like alcohol, but there are viable options for buying and using without fear.
Baud
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Nitpicking? You highlighted a quote from near the end of the article that complains about Democrats’ policy on MJ. I then read the article and see that it’s not as clear about the difference between the parties on the underlying issue on the very day when there is a major vote on this issue. Then, I make comments about that on a political blog.
What exactly do you think this thread should be about? If you’d only like comments that agree that Dems suck, then say so in your post and I’ll skip the thread.
Hoodie
@Baud: Obama was vacillating on it, which is functionally equivalent to decriminalization instead of full legalization, which is what states like Colorado, etc. have done already. It’s a timid half measure and fools no one.
MFA
@geg6: Unless he has the coattails to turn the PA leg blue–and I’m not saying he doesn’t, only that it’s an unknown–PA Gov would be a drag on his rise. I like him to, and am convinced Fetterman is needed in a blue U.S. Senate.
germy
Then I support full legalization. I see the terms “decriminalize” and “legalize” thrown around, sometimes interchangeably.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Well, if fairness, Dems do suck alot and often. //
Baud
@Hoodie:
@germy:
As I understand it, the House bill decriminalizes it at the federal level, which is the same as legalize it at the federal level. What it doesn’t do is preempt the states if states want to keep MJ criminal. Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.
MFA
@germy: My understanding is most Americans agree with you and I–full legalization is the goal. End Prohibition, again.
Another Scott
@Baud:
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
GoBlueInOak
@Baud: I’m not sure anyone outside the DC think tank circuit knows what Vox is. Majority of America probably thinks its a new fabric softener.
Baud
@GoBlueInOak: I hope you’re right. The mainstream media seems to be more helpful in this instance than the savvy off-Village set.
Roger Moore
@Almost Retired:
The biggest problem I’ve seen with legalization in California is that there regulations are stifling the legitimate business and leaving a gaping hole for illegal businesses to proliferate. My area (Pasadena) is a good example of how this happens. The city council didn’t want to allow legal pot shops, so they didn’t pass any laws to allow them. When voters approved an initiative to allow them, the city put up so many hurdles that we still don’t have any 2 years later. None of the other nearby cities have done any better. The result is that there are unlicensed pot shops wherever the enforcement is lax. They look good, but because they’re legally sketchy, they can’t necessarily get their products from the legal growers and manufacturers who have to meet state quality control standards. It’s just a huge mess.
jeffreyw
@GoBlueInOak:
I thought it was a floor wax.
artem1s
The Dems were on the wrong side of tobacco too and it came around and bit them in the butt in the 80s and 90s. Does anyone really think smoking MJ everyday is less dangerous to the lungs than daily cigarette use? What about the medical problems of tobacco use in the AA community? Is introducing another drug into the market going to be good for them? Oxy and heroin addiction was not anticipated when the FDA rushed to get pain medication into the markets. And deregulating opiates didn’t solve anyone’s pain problems – and communities have no money to solve that problem.
I’m sorry but complete deregulation of MJ is not good legislation. Because of the FDA restrictions on good longitudinal studies on MJ use, we have almost no good data on long term affects of daily use of the drug. Colorado is going to face a lung cancer health care problem in 20 or 30 years because they only wanted to look at the upside of bringing in pot revenue. I’m all for decriminalization and poring money into medical research and addiction treatment instead of jails. But there are too many ‘grass roots’ pot movements that are focused only on the revenue side. There is also a huge problem with those who are pushing it as a miracle cure for everything under the sun – there is a lot of self medication going on out there and these are not people who are grounded in scientific thinking – or who give a flying fuck about racial justice. Anyone who thinks MJ doesn’t need regulation on par with alcohol or tobacco is fooling themselves and I question any politician whose central MJ platform is on par with Ron Paul and libertarians.
The justice system’s racial problems are not going to be solved by legalizing weed. Anyone running for office who says so is not being honest about whose vote he is trying to get. Anyone who says MJ legalization is a cure all for keeping AA out of jail, is not really interested in racial justice or the votes of AA or appealing to the real base of the Democratic Party.
Let’s ask Stacy Abrams if legalizing weed would have swung GA. or kept it blue past one election cycle. The Dems aren’t interested because they understand the complexities and they aren’t looking for a one bullet gun that MIGHT mean the weed voters will vote for something other than the weed legislation on the ballot in that cycle. W road on the coattails of anti-gay marriage ballot measures to get elected in 2000 and 2004. MJ ballot measures completely failed to help Democrats get elected to statewide offices in Ohio in 2014. MJ legislation isn’t the answer to GOTV. And no candidate appears on the ballot as the MJ Party.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Hey, I resemble that remark!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jeffreyw: It’s a floor wax AND a dessert topping.
GoBlueInOak
@Baud: Fair enough. I just feel like if the last 4 years have taught us anything, its that 21st century media is so utterly fragmented & susceptible to propaganda & outright fantasy, that what any single outlet says – let alone a wonk/wank-fest like Vox – is just one drop in an ocean of nonsense.
I mean, we have now have a QAnon Pizza-gate nutbar in Congress, and the current President’s viewing habits include OANN.
germy
@artem1s:
The great thing about legalization and having state-regulated dispensaries is that one could purchase edibles. THC gummies, THC granola bars, etc.
geg6
@MFA:
I simply don’t agree. I don’t know if you live here in PA, but I do and I know all the players. No Dem governor here has ever had coattails enough to change the legislature from GOP to Dem. Very hard to do here due to the fact that there are many, many, many more GOP leaning legislative districts and counties here than there are Dem. You’d need to have half the populations of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia to move to places like Coudersport or Titusville or Lancaster to change any of that. Not gonna happen.
Fetterman would make a great governor. It’s where his experience lies and it’s a perfect position for a person of his personality and goals as a politician. Josh Shapiro would make a perfect senator. He’s a lawyer and is used to the kind of long term arguments and jockeying that is useful in the Senate. I’d kill to have him on the Judiciary Committee.
Brachiator
Legalization of cannabis is probably inevitable. Action at the state level will nudge federal changes, as happened with Prohibition.
BTW, December 5 is the 87th anniversary of Repeal Day, when the last state, Utah, ratified the end of Prohibition.
Cool short History Guy review of Prohibition.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: Yup. There were infamous issues with Ohio’s 2015 ballot initiative (only “special” people were allowed to try to be one of the 10 approved vendors, etc.). It was an invitation for vast corruption, given the potential profits involved.
It looks like an effort was tried to get another measure on the 2020 ballot, but it was unsuccessful.
There are an infinite number of ways to do legalization badly. Lawmakers should think very clearly and carefully about how to do it. “State Stores” might be the quickest and least-corrupt way, but the devil’s in the details.
Cheers,
Scott.
Almost Retired
@Roger Moore: Yes, those are good points, and I see some of that here in the South Bay, with a hodgepodge of affluent beach cities adjacent to economically distressed areas with lax enforcement.
Roger Moore
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
I think there are good reasons to allow a fair degree of local control over how and where alcohol can be sold. I do think it makes sense to have some kind of federal regulation about production and quality, but I don’t see any good coming from requiring every liquor store and restaurant in the country needing to deal with the feds. The same thing with pot. It would be nice if there were national standards for things like pesticide residue and THC labeling, but I don’t necessarily want the feds deciding where we can and can’t have dispensaries.
geg6
@Another Scott:
Here in PA, I think that would be the easiest way to do it. The state still holds a monopoly on alcohol here (what we formerly called “state stores” are now called PA Fine Wine and Spirits Stores). They could just add marijuana to the inventory. I would have no problem with that.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@patroclus: I am not very current with SNL characters but I saw a tweet comparing Michigan Lady to a character called Girl You Wish You Hadn’t Started A Conversation With. My impression is that all you’d have to do is put a bad wig and makeup on Girl Who and you’ve got your star witness.
Kent
Yes, same here in WA.
The question though, is whether a BETTER outcome would arise if goobers and orcs like Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, Louis Gohmert, and Marco Rubio get involved in the process at the Federal level.
Betty Cracker
Someone on Twitter posted this photo with a caption like “The South the day after pot is legalized.”
I think legalization is a good issue for the party to get behind. Just because it wasn’t a magic bullet in the past doesn’t mean it’s not a winning issue now. Things change. It’s legal in lots of states, and they haven’t turned into indolent drug dens.
Obvious Russian Troll
One of the weirder things I saw on reddit in the last four years was this poor woman who thought that Trump was going to cruise to re-election by running on a campaign of legalizing marijuana. Sure, lady. That’s why he made Jeff Sessions his first attorney general.
frosty
I agree with you 100%. Plus, he’s not from Philly or Pittsburgh! That doesn’t happen much in PA. Odd that both the Gov and Lt Gov are from Springettsbury Township (York County).
patrick II
I wonder how many of the ex-cons who have their marijuana busts expunged will now be able to vote in southern states — and how much that influences Republicans antipathy to legalization?
The Moar You Know
@Baud: Important to keep in mind that both Vox and Buzzfeed have an agenda, and it is not an agenda that involves helping the Democratic Party. More like delegitimizing it.
Punchy
Change one letter in his surname and he’s got a Pearl Jam song named after him.
zhena gogolia
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
The Girl You Wish You hadn’t talked to at a party or whatever it is is much smarter than this chick.
I was just thinking how brilliant Cecily Strong is and how she doesn’t get enough publicity. Her Jeannine Pirro is fabulous.
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@artem1s:
Here’s Stacey from 2018. Clearly, she isn’t afraid of legalization:
I support decriminalization of marijuana, legalization of medical marijuana and local cultivation of medical marijuana. Once we have established a strong substance abuse network, I am open to legalization for recreational use. Stacey Abrams (@staceyabrams) https://twitter.com/staceyabrams/status/966303039714942977
zhena gogolia
STACEY ABRAMS
LETITIA JAMES
PETER STRZOK
germy
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Any predictions on how NY will go? Cuomo seems anxious for revenue. Will they fuck it up a third time?
narya
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You beat me to it.
The main reasons I want legalization (or whatever path will get me there) are I want to stop ruining people’s lives for using weed, and I want to know what I’m getting if I purchase it myself. I stopped using in the early 80s (with 4-5 exceptions since then, several of which weren’t all that pleasant) because it got too damn strong. It’s like alcohol in that regard: I want to have some 4.5% ABV beer options, not have everything 12% barrel-aged punch-in-the-head options. I haven’t tried edibles yet, but it’s the same thing with them, I think.
The Moar You Know
@germy: the fundamental issue is access to the banking system. If legalized, the pot stores and producers have access to banks and the financial system.
The difference for the users is more along the lines of I can still be fired if I’m drug tested for it and test positive. Legalization means I can smoke on my own time and there’s not fuckall anyone can do about it
ETA: MFA’s explanation is far better than mine
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@germy:
He’s facing a veto-proof majority in the Assembly and Senate, so I think we’ll get it this time. Also, NY needs the money, and NJ is going to legalize (has legalized?) so why let the revenue go to NJ when we could capture it?
geg6
@frosty:
To be fair, Fetterman is very much identified with Pittsburgh with most people. He was in AmeriCorps in the city for several years and, after completing his MPP at the Kennedy School, deliberately chose Braddock as where he could do the most good. And he did.
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
That is funny as all hell!
Can a president direct maryjane be taken off the Schedule 1 list? I mean, what the absolute fuck?
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@The Moar You Know:
I realize The Verge is a Vox outlet, but they are a tech publication. I read it regularly and what I see as far as politics goes is stuff they think will appeal to their techie audience. Baud’s nitpicking aside, this was a pretty good piece. As far as the Vox agenda, who knows? Vox has disintegrated in the past few months — Ezra Klein, MattY and a lot of others have left. So it will be quite different.
germy
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
Legalize or decriminalize in NY? Medical is already legal, so I assume full legalization?
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@germy:
Legalize recreational use — the full monty.
The Moar You Know
@Obvious Russian Troll: Not that strange. He specifically said he would legalize it in several interviews. What is weird is that anyone, knowing his history with minorities, would believe that.
germy
@The Moar You Know:
I’m curious about traffic stops.
Let’s say you make a right turn on red. Police pull you over and administer a test, because maybe you’re impaired, who knows?
And then you test positive for the THC you ingested two weeks ago…
trollhattan
@The Moar You Know:
Something I am not 100% clear on: In legalization states there are still occupations that do not allow workers to be under the influence. Alcohol is legal but if you’re a truck driver or heavy equipment operator or pilot, etc. there is zero tolerance. THC lingers in the body for weeks. Is there any legal way for somebody tested at work to use it and keep their job?
germy
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
This is the most optimistic I’ve seen you, so good then.
I guess we’ll know in the spring.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
In effect, local communities are trying to maintain Prohibition by refusing to license local shops. Yeah, it’s a mess.
Also, relatively huge taxes on cannabis ends up supporting the illegal market.
The Moar You Know
@trollhattan: the other one that NEEDS to be taken off that list and never should have been put on it in the first place is peyote. Nobody takes that shit recreationally, it feels like you’ve been kicked through a wall afterwards. It’s a religious issue and discriminates only against Native Americans, full stop.
frosty
@geg6: True. He moved to Western PA quite awhile ago.
ETA: I grew up in Springettsbury. Local pride!!
trollhattan
@The Moar You Know:
Example #234,543: “Everything Trump says is a lie.” Because people have a small list of issues important to them, they’re only paying attention to what he says about those few and losing the overarching truth.
“He’s agin’ abortion!”
“He ‘pays’ for abortions.”
“Hate the sin, not the sinner!”
The Moar You Know
@germy: In CA, we apparently already have that dealt with. There’s a test that can tell if it’s in your saliva. If it is, you smoked recently and they can get you on 502. If not, then you’re outside the window of impairment and you’re good to go.
PS: right on red, so long as you stop, is totes legal in CA but the point is the same.
bbleh
@MFA: Exactly. Toomey is — for now at least — out of the picture entirely, which is good news because he would have been the presumptive favorite in either race. (Financial? Medical? I have suspicions but no data.) So as to who goes where, I concur strongly with comments upthread that Gov would be a better fit for Fetterman. Senate, I dunno, Wolf, Shapiro, …? It’s a good pickup opportunity so I hope the state Dems don’t blow it.
germy
That’s interesting, I had no idea about the saliva test.
frosty
@PsiFighter37: @bbleh: Wolf is 72, Josh Shapiro is in his early 40s. I’m in favor of having the younger generation run for Senate.
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
I agree that she is really quite good.
I don’t often watch a full episode of SNL anymore, but clips on YouTube.
I tried to watch a couple of weeks ago, but the introduction of cast members took so long that I got impatient and turned it off. How many Not Ready For Primetime Players are there now, a hundred?
Baud
@geg6:
Is any state selling it that way currently? I’d imagine states are more concerned about the federal ban than private businesses are.
Kent
I don’t think they are trying to maintain prohibition so much as regulate what sort of businesses are going to populate their business districts. In my town of Camas WA the city council voted to prohibit pot shops even though we can drive 5-10 min over to Vancouver WA and find two dozen of them. I think they just want to keep the downtown area quaint and upscale and would equally oppose other legal businesses like pawn shops and porn shops for the same reason. Mostly it’s just upscale “Karen” types who don’t care if you smoke pot, they just don’t want a pot shop next to their upscale art gallery or coffee shop because of the type of people it might draw to the neighborhood.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Moar You Know:
Except when there’s a No Right Turn on Red sign.
narya
@The Moar You Know: Ummmm, SOME people have taken it recreationally, if you know what I mean and I think you do. In principle, however, you are correct.
germy
But he didn’t veto it last time. He could get the votes. And from what I understand, some of the “NO” votes came from Democrats.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: Same. Maybe the internet has shortened my attention span, but for whatever reason, I am less patient with broadcast shows now. I tend to watch them in clips. Agree that Cecily Strong does a great Pirro. Even the anchor guy loses it.
@trollhattan: Reminds me of the Sesame Street “One of These Things Is Not Like the Other” song.
NotMax
@Kent
Tokin’ opposition.
:)
germy
@Betty Cracker:
Maya Rudolph, when she imitates Kamala… she sounds just like her!
Often the impressions on these sketch shows are hit or miss. But Maya really captures the vocal mannerisms.
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: That actually looks good, but fried buds would be more like it.
MFA
@geg6: Which, as a PA resident from the Pgh. area, made an impression. I’ll leave it at this: My son, a college freshman studying Political Science and intending to go into politics, is looking to get onboard whatever campaign Fetterman puts together in 2022. He is inspired, motivated, by that story in much the same way that people are fired up about AOC’s rise from bartender. And in the US Senate he can affect and improve the perception of the Democratic party on a national level, as she has. If he ends up Gov., that is GOOD. But Sen. is BETTER, methinks.
FYI I also like Shapiro; but cannot envision him as the same kind of lighting rod for Dem/Progressive inspiration to drive voter turnout. But I acknowledge and respect other views.
glory b
@MFA: I agree with a few of the others here, he’s an executive, not a legislator.
Brachiator
@Kent:
In effect, local communities are trying to maintain Prohibition by refusing to license local shops. Yeah, it’s a mess.
In Southern California, Pasadena and other cities are trying to keep out cannabis shops. But there are MedMen cannabis shops in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills, two very upscale areas. There is also a store in downtown Los Angeles.
geg6
@narya:
I can relate.
Geminid
@Kent: I hope to get back to Alamosa CO this spring. A nice town to visit- nice flat walking, a big city park along the Rio Grand, large wildlife refuges nearby. They even have a Crane Festival in April. But it doesn’t have a recreational cannibus dispensary because Alamosa County is “dry.” So I’ll just have to stop at Fort Garland on the way in. And then try to be very careful. Some heads will assure you that they drive as well stoned as they do straight, but I know I don’t.
Kent
@Brachiator: Sure, different cities have different mayors and city councils and take different approaches.
I sat through the whole debate in my own town, and through a local initiative campaign to overturn our local city ban on pot shops. None of it was ever about imposing any sort of local prohibition on pot or pot smoking. It was all zoning and trying to keep the local little downtown as a quaint upscale place and keep the “wrong” element out. Were they misguided? Probably. It wasn’t an issue that I was particularly invested in one way or the other. It would have been the same exact discussion if they were talking about pawn shops, used car lots, porno shops, liquor stores, homeless shelters, halfway houses, or any other type of business that they thought was downscale and not fitting the character of the local downtown.
JustRuss
A-damn-men.
Kent
I can’t think of anything that I do as well stoned as I do straight.
trollhattan
A phoebe is investigating our front porch, which is my view from the dining table office. Cute li’l birdie.
Kent
All this thought about Federal regulation of pot at a national level (as opposed to localities and states going it alone) reminds me of a story I used to tell to fishermen when I worked as a Federal fisheries manager for NMFS and would frequently and endlessly encounter fishing industry groups always pushing for more regulations for their competitors and other gear groups crabbers want more regulation on trawlers, trawlers want more regulation on crabbers, etc. etc.).
Apparently years ago in Santa Cruz or Santa Barbara or some other CA beach town that I forgot there was a group of surfers who went to the town council asking them to regulate surfing and keep the out-of-town surfers away who were crowding the waves. The mayor at the town council meeting famously looked down on the group of local surfers and said: “Son, if you knew anything at all about government the last thing you would be doing is bringing this to our attention. I suggest you figure out some way to work this out on your own because you most definitely do not want us getting involved.”
I feel exactly the same about Congress or the federal government getting involved in the minutia of the pot industry in the various states, other than the normal consumer protection stuff they do for all products. This is an area where we most definitely do not want local policy to be determined by the 60th vote in the Senate, which right now is probably Rand Paul or Lindsey Graham or some such tool.
Geminid
@Kent: I do manual labor, and if it’s something I know well, like planting or paving a patio, being stoned makes no difference. But if I’m building a set of wooden steps, my efficiency suffers because I don’t do carpentry enough to have a facility at it. While I am basically a cautious driver, my biggest deficit regardless of whether I’m straight or not is that I often find myself driving on auto pilot- my eyes will be on the road, but my mind will be elsewhere instead of on the road, constantly looking at and thinking about what is ahead of me and around me. I can do this, but I have to make myself do it.
Mo MacArbie
I don’t know why people want weaker cannabis. I dispute the assertion above that it’s just as bad as tobacco smoke, but it’s not particularly good to breathe. Stronger weed means less to inhale. Maybe try a one-hitter to limit dosage.
laura
Maintaining mj on Schedule I allows the continuation of selective prosecution via the paper bag test. It also cuts off any avenue for federal student financial assistance. Before CA legalized it, one of my Union Members took the fall for his high school senior’s possession charge for the sole reason that he didn’t want it to haunt his son’s entire life – college, career, the prison pipeline. He was willing to carry the load – arrest, and long suspension at work.
Many of my Members were in safety sensitive positions subject to Federal DOT regulations. A large subset were on maintenance opioid pain management due to the physical toll on the body from heavy vehicle/equipment jobs. Many hoped to use mj topicals or CBD as an alternative but could not due to the lasting evidence that would come up on a random, after accident or return to work test. In January 2020, federal regs were modified to set up a clearinghouse for any/all positives of prohibited substances including booze. If you pop, you must register, and if you fail to complete a recommended program by a substance abuse professional skipping town or moving out of state will not allow you to get another job because all employers must cross reference an applicant with the clearinghouse. Seven years is the current retention period for clearing data from the clearinghouse.
Kent
@laura: Exactly. I taught HS at a big diverse suburban HS in Texas. Rich white kids always managed to get off on any pot possession charge and not have it taint their records because connections and shit. Poor black kids not so much.
The sheer racist inequity of our drug laws are reason enough to discard them long ago. It is EXPECIALLY problematic when prosecutorial discretion overlaps with racist southern towns.
Booger
Nobody says MJ is safe or harmless. But we know alcohol and tobacco are harmful, yet we don’t put the full weight of the judicial system into penalizing those (people of color) who use them. We regulate and then treat (in theory, anyway) the social ills.
Ruckus
@sdhays:
I used long ago but it really didn’t make me give a half a damn if it was legal or not. However, I agree that keeping it illegal makes the life worse for a lot of people and for no reason whatsoever.
Mike in NC
What does scumbag Kevin McCarthy have against cannabis and cats? Nothing passes Congress because Moscow Mitch blocks it.
Uncle Omar
How about this for getting Fetterman to the Senate…appoint Toomey to head up HHS in a “gesture of bipartisanship” then have Wolfe appoint Fetterman to the Senate with the instruction to squeeze McConnell by the neck until the pimple on top pops.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
I don’t know if makes a practical difference if cities are just trying to maintain prohibition or just trying to keep pot shops away from their nice business districts. If they put so many restrictions on pot businesses that none of them can actually open, there is de facto prohibition even if not de jure. You can say you don’t want sales near schools and churches, but in a lot of places there are enough schools and churches that it effectively means there’s nowhere they can legally go.
Ruckus
@Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix:
I worked in a dry town in OH and it was a freaking joke. You could of course walk across the street to the next town and walk into a liquor store or bar. It was antiquated BS 25 years ago. BTW they had a small probation museum, I think to justify the dry laws. One thing I think is funny is that a number of countries that don’t have the draconian substance laws we have seem not to have anything like the problems that we do. Maybe the concept of the draconian laws is the problem….
Geminid
@Geminid: While cannabis does not affect reflex and coordination like alcohol does, it can affect judgement and that can be a real problem for drivers. When the driver of a trash truck wrecked that train load of Republicans on their way to a retreat a few springs ago, the truck driver was found to have a substantial amount of THC in his blood. The defence was able to prevent the prosecutor from introducing the drug test at the driver’s manslaughter trial because at the time there was as yet no legal standard for intoxication. Almost all the trains crossing that intersection are long, slow collections of empty coal cars on their way from Norfolk back to West Virginia, and the driver probably knew about the three faster Amtrac trains that go through each week. But this was a special run, and the driver made a split second decision to try and beat it and ended up getting one of his buddies killed and another badly hurt. He might have been more cautious had he not been stoned.
Kent
I was just quibbling with the statement that cities are opposing pot shops out of some sense of puritanical prohibitionism. I just think it is more snotty NIMBY-ism than anything else. I don’t have a stake one way or the other. And I have probably 50 pot shops within a 10-20 min drive so no worries there either. This part of suburban WA is jam packed with nondescript strip malls where the pot shops go in next to the nail salons and Thai takeout joints. If the local upscale downtown areas don’t want them I don’t much care. That’s down at about 250th place on the list of local issues that I care about.
Geminid
@laura: Taking Cannabis off Schedule 1 will also allow real research into it’s benefits. It’s a decent painkiller, and this may be why there is evidence that opioid overdoses are less frequent in states that allow medical marijuana. And if the particular “Charlotte’s Web” strain can suppress seizures in children with a terrible kind of epilepsy, we should find out if cannabinoids can help with other neurological disorders, like Parkinson’s.
Brachiator
@Kent:
Some cities in California don’t want cannabis shops anywhere. It’s not about keeping downtown districts “quaint.”
There may be some element of fear of who shops might be selling to. But some cities that have significant lower income populations are as adamant about keeping pot shops out as upscale places. Maybe more so. They saw communities overrun with liquor stores and don’t want to see their cities overrun with pot shops.
Nora
@Mike in NC: What.An.Asshole.
Perhaps Representative McCarthy might want to look at all the things the House passed that did help small businesses and schools, back in MAY, which Senator McConnell — of McCarthy’s own part, I believe — has refused to allow to come to a vote. Perhaps he should keep his mouth shut until he has something intelligent to say.
I got into an argument on Facebook with someone who said the Left is playing politics with relief, and the whole concept that the House passed a bill that Mitch wouldn’t bring to the floor was because it was a “bad bill” that “the majority of Americans” wouldn’t want. I actually looked up the bill in question, from May, and discovered it was passed by a 2-1 margin. That shut the guy up, at least temporarily. It would have been hard to argue that 2/3 of Congress is out of touch with what the “majority of Americans” want.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
There’s clearly something else going on in my area. As far as I can tell, there are 0 legal pot shops in the San Gabriel Valley, an area with a population of about 1.5 million. The local governments don’t want them, and it’s not obvious to me why. There are plenty of areas where they could go even if there was some desire to keep them away from “nice” retail areas. Legalization doesn’t mean a lot if the only places people can buy are illegal.
J R in WV
@glory b:
Late getting to this… he is a tough looking guy, but way too clean cut for bouncer in a biker bar. More like a senior cop, or prosecutor, even… which is kinda what he is, right?
J R in WV
@artem1s:
YES! All the science shows that Cannibis is not a cancer-causing addictive poison, like tobacco.
Getting high on pot isn’t nearly the impact on health that alcohol is to your liver.
The biggest danger from commercial marijuana is protecting people from toxic chemicals used to enhance grow operation output. Some states require cannabis to pass rigorous chemical testing, preventing growers from using pesticides and potentially dangerous fertilizers. That’s the kind of regulation the cannabis marketplace needs.
I used to smoke a lot, don’t any more, no reason, just dropped it, although I’m around it some I just — just don’t use it much. Have done edibles in CO some time back, enjoyed that pretty well for a vacation thing…
J R in WV
@Kent:
Ooh. I can! ;~)
J R in WV
@Geminid:
And Republicanism, one of the worst mental disorders running around. ;~)
I kid, no drug can cure Republicanism !!!
J R in WV
And since I’m used to being last on a thread…
The interview with Fetterman is not on Vox at all. It’s on a tech site called The Verge.
Some have said The Verge is related to Vox somewhere, and that’s possible. But the brand is entirely and obviously separate, the topics covered are usually completely different as well.
ETA: I see that Verge is directly related to Vox down at the bottom of the Verge site. But the brand is totally diff.
Geminid
@J R in WV: Actually, I always thought Jeff Sessions was someone who could benefit from smoking marijuana.
karensky
@Baud: it passed today in the House. You gotta start somewhere.
trollhattan
@Geminid:
Jeff Sessions, with a grievous case of the munchies attacks you to get your fried okra.
I’d watch. Damn elf.
The Lodger
@Hoodie: the buds are fried, you’re fried, it’s
all good…
Procopius
@germy:
I’m not sure I can, but I think it’s like what Portugal did with all previously illegal drugs. Removed all criminal penalties for possession and instituted attractive rehab programs. Since rehab often doesn’t work they made them repeatable and included counseling, monitoring by social workers, job training, and other education.. Of course I haven’t seen any news about their progress for two or three years, but the last news I did see was that the program is working great, and other countries would like to adopt it but the penalties from the U.S. are just too great. I think if they just reclassified marijuana to Schedule III they wouldn’t need to do anything else.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: Way late to this thread, but drop me a line if you do make it out to Alamosa! I love that little city. But yes, it is “dry” from a cannabis POV.